Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome
FR

Translated into English.

Original post
PA
I'm currently converting a DAF/HEULIEZ MB205 bus.

Cheaper and more spacious than a regular vehicle, the paperwork (in France) isn't too difficult for approval.

I'm ready to help anyone who wants to tackle this kind of project. Those who know, help those who want to....
SE Sev66 ·
I don't have a van or bus, but I have a beautiful 407 raised and extended that I really baby. As my income allows, I'm fitting it out, little by little. I'm struggling with the gas connection and the water drainage system (not outside, of course).

Thanks for your advice.

Séverine.
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
HELLO SEVERINE

IN RESPONSE TO YOUR EMAIL, HERE'S THE INFO I CAN SHARE WITH YOU:

IF YOU WANT TO GET THE VEHICLE OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED, THE ONLY SOLUTION IS .... AN APPROVED INSTALLER! OTHERWISE, USE EQUIPMENT DESIGNED FOR HOME INSTALLATIONS (PROHIBITED BY INSURANCE...)

FOR GREYWATER WITH CERTIFICATION, YOU NEED TANKS WITH COMPARTMENTS OF MAX 100 LITERS EACH. WITHOUT CERTIFICATION, A DIESEL TANK FROM A SCRAP TRUCK (15) CAN WORK AND GENERALLY HAS A CLEAN-OUT ACCESS HATCH AND A LOW-LEVEL DRAIN OUTLET. TO CLEAN THE DIESEL, THERE ARE SPECIFIC RINSE PRODUCTS, NOTABLY AT DACD 0475588010 (one of my company's clients)

HOPING I'VE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS, HERE ARE MY CONTACT DETAILS IF YOU NEED TO REACH ME

PATRICK HONORIN 0475830600 0625592901 patrick@geyserconcept.com
SE Sev66 ·
Thanks Patrick for your advice, I can't stick around—I'm logging in from work 😛, I'll contact you very soon.

See you soon

Sev
ET Etrema ·
Hi

I'm planning to convert a ~50-seat bus into my home and a small rehearsal space.

Can you give me some tips on buying, homologation (with or without—what's the difference?), equipment, choosing power/gas/water systems, taxes...

Thanks for sharing your experience, and safe travels!
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Everything is doable, but you need to start from the beginning...

Choose the right bus model and sit down with a drafting table or computer to prepare a file for the friendly technical advisor from the mines department (DRIRE).

Depending on your needs or financial means, the base (the bus) will be different. The examples given exclude the conversion work.

The most common option with limited financial means (under €3,000) is a Renault S53 school bus. Parts aren't expensive and you can find them with low mileage in all the bus scrapyards.

With a bit more money (€5–8,000), you can turn to Renault FR1 buses, first generation, the VanHool range which comes in several lengths and with different roof heights, or other models with flat glazing (easier for conversion).

With more substantial financial means, you can look at Mercedes Setra, Bova or Volvo, for example, and maybe even imagine a double deck! (English double-deckers should be avoided because of spare parts problems – maintenance requires non-metric tools and the brand isn't represented in France – Leyland).

Bear in mind that the bus isn't expensive compared to a proper conversion.

For example:

On an S53, it's not reasonable to undertake major bodywork (given the age of the vehicle...). The interior conversion will be minimal, and the vehicle, by its very design, will inevitably remain uncomfortable... On the other hand, maintenance costs will be reduced (it's a truck!).

On a higher-end bus, you'll need to do more substantial work: Access to the luggage compartments can't be cut anywhere. The glazing, being glued, will need to be reinforced to accept certain customizations (such as a bunk bed).

For more recent buses, even conversion specialists refuse to do the work! Good luck to anyone who wants to tackle it.

As for double-deck buses, I haven't found any since I started my research that have managed to get certified. Plus, you'd need to be less than 5'7" tall to actually live in one!

The last very important points for getting into this adventure are the following:

Vehicle from before 1995 (if more recent, the seats must be original seats in original locations, otherwise crash test!).

Driver's door on the right side is mandatory (some have managed certification with a central side door on the left, or a rear left door, but that's normally impossible according to DRIRE guidelines).

It's impossible to relocate any number of components. For example, the tanks or any part of the braking or steering system; otherwise you'll need to provide the manufacturer's authorization to the mines inspector (good luck getting authorization from a foreign or even French manufacturer).

Check the payload capacity and weight distribution per axle, because many buses with rear engines don't allow you to put the water tank at the rear either, since in that case the weight on the rear axle will be exceeded. This often forces a layout with kitchen and bathroom facilities at the front.

etc...

The other solution is to buy a complete conversion file that has already obtained approval from the mines authority from someone or a conversion specialist. This means spending €2,500 to €7,500 for plans for a conversion that may not be the one you like, on a base model that may not be the one you would have chosen. Then you still have to do all the work and stick to the plans.

The last solution is not to go through the mines authority! Which I absolutely don't advise! Indeed, in case of a road accident, you're liable! Plus, at the first vehicle inspection, you're guaranteed to see the inspector put a nice "R" for "Refused", which from a legal standpoint prohibits you from driving or selling the vehicle. It becomes scrap. It's a perfect example of money thrown out the window and a lack of judgment.

So, if you get through all these steps, you can start thinking about detail points like gas, choice of toilet type, electrical generation equipment, etc...

Good luck to you—I managed to do it myself without anyone's help, so it's definitely doable. Don't hesitate to contact me if you need more info.

PATRICK26.
ET Etrema ·
Thanks for your advice!

Do you have any recommendations about where to buy a bus (my budget would be max €7,000)—types like Setra 215 or VanHool?

Can you give me supplier contacts for interior equipment (heating, toilet, etc.) and tips about off-grid electrical systems powered by batteries (supplier, cost...), fresh water and wastewater systems, and insulation?

Thank you very much
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
For used buses, search for "coach," "bus," or "used bus" and you'll find tons of them!

Don't rush—the secondhand market has plenty of buses for sale and way fewer buyers. You can negotiate a good deal.

For the conversions, check out the Euro Accessories network or Narbonne Accessories. You'll find everything you need.

For batteries, Fenwick batteries are ideal and go up to 420 Ah. Ask any material handling equipment dealer.

Good evening patrick
SE Serge38 ·
Hello,

I'm looking for a SETRA 210 or 211 coach in Belgium and Germany to convert into a motorhome.

Does certification of such a vehicle pose any problems?

What's the best way to proceed?

I already have quite a few addresses in Belgium and Germany that I found online, but I'd be interested in having others, especially in Belgium for easier communication since I don't speak German.

Best regards,

Serge
ET Etrema ·
Hi,

Do you have any info on where to find bus plans with specs for the Setra 215, Vanhool?

How do you figure out how to distribute the load across the axles? Are there technical documents for the standards you need to follow?

Do you have photos of your bus? I'm curious to see your work, if you don't mind. I've got a lot going on, and anything that helps me get a clearer picture of what's doable is really interesting to me.

Are you coming to Strasbourg on September 1st? I live there, so I'll be there unless something comes up.

See you!
AL Albator115 ·
Hey there!

I just landed on the site...! And naturally I'm checking out what people are saying about buses, camper vans, trucks, etc... I'm a truck driver—I lived in a 508D for three years, and for the past five months, it's been fantastic!!!!

Yeah, it's true that going from 10 to 30 square meters really makes a difference!!! A 1985 S53 that looks brand new even with 500,000 miles on the clock!....

Since I did the whole conversion myself, the paperwork headache and especially the weight distribution calculations kept me busy..... But anyway, I made it happen—a certified camper van with hot water and everything... even though it's not fully finished. I got it certified with the basic setup, and since then I've been installing the water heater, tanks, etc.... It's true that it's not the best approach, but I had to move fast so.....

Anyway, I'm currently around Tours in the 37 if anyone needs a hand (or today!!) I'm happy to help!! :)

I'd be curious to see some photos of your bus Patrick!! See you soon!
KI Kiboun ·
Hi patrick26,

Based on the various messages you've replied to, it's clear to me that you're really knowledgeable about motorhome regulations and conversions.

I don't have a bus conversion project myself, but I've got an idea that's been rolling around in my head about building or converting a pop-top motorhome.

My questions:

Do you know of any RV converters who could build a pop-top using aluminum sandwich panels? Does modifying a motorhome (openings, interior work) require official approval?

Best regards, Kiboun
FA Fanoo ·
hey there...😛

we've also jumped into the adventure of converting a bus.... it's a SETRA KASSBOHRER (s 215 hd) from 1977, we've registered it as a vintage vehicle to get around the restrictions...😏. Indeed, we've put metal panels in place of the big windows, and on the metal panels we've fitted small wooden house windows and it looks really nice.... all we have left to do is finish the kitchen and the "living room". By the way, all your advice is welcome on the conversion, but also when it comes to traffic restrictions for heavy vehicles (vintage) because I heard, and I really want to stress this... that heavy vehicles aren't subject to this restriction law... and one last little thing, where can I get the technical manual in French...

Thanks for everything

A little family hoping to get on the road soon...
ET Etrema ·
Hi,

Sorry I missed the 1–9 gathering in Strasbourg—I had a death in my family and couldn't make it.

A few questions for someone experienced: What are the typical taxes and fees for a converted motorhome bus (technical inspection, registration, vehicle tax, axle fees)? How much does maintenance on your bus cost per year, roughly?

Any websites with information about buses (conversions, regulations, sales...) would be really welcome!

Thanks
SG Sgoub ·
QUESTION: Hi, I'm looking for info on what types of high-capacity RV tanks (250L) I should consider?

AL Albator115 ·
hey there!

I was also looking for a large water tank capacity, it's not easy to find exactly what you need....

To start, you can search online by typing reservoir, container, tank, etc. in your search engine. It gets more complicated if you have specific dimensions you need to respect. As for me, since my tanks are in the storage compartments, I had the height issue, etc...

I eventually went with two 210L tanks each, and I found them at a company called ACS plasturgies, located in the 68 area in Sierents. TEL: 0389839821. They delivered to my home, no worries...

If you're aiming for official certification, definitely don't forget (like I did...) 😕that any tank over 100L must be equipped with baffles!!

There you go... Well if your DIY works out, it's all good then grab a little beer and let's go!!!

Don't hesitate if you're looking for something else!
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Good evening everyone, I've been away for a few days for work (I manage expo setup and breakdown across all of Europe), and I'm here to answer the various questions.

First off, the bus I'm preparing is currently undergoing conversion. In fact, I'm having this vehicle converted for work purposes—it will serve an assembly team to replace another vehicle (which we also had converted) that we're retiring. I'll also use it for family vacations... shhhh!

This vehicle must comply with all current regulations because it will be transporting personnel across Europe; that's why I know the regulations well because I'm the one handling everything regulatory in the company—from the design of the stands and exhibitions we create to special vehicle projects like podium trucks or show trailers (like the Adidas tour, for example). The moment it carries the public, even the slightest breach of the rules could land you straight in jail without passing Go...

I promise that as an update I'll quickly publish the complete file on our bus: photos, plans, manufacturer modification agreement, agreement from the Ministry of Transport (the DRIRE declaring themselves incompetent to handle our request), list of materials selected and approved by the DRIRE for the conversion. But for now I'm short on time....

So I'll answer the questions asked on the forum.

Random responses....

On buying a bus abroad: Let's keep it simple... forget it! For homologation you'll need an RTI and you'll have to request it from the manufacturer. If you get it, your bus can be registered in the "type series," otherwise you'll have to go through an individual type approval, and there, count on a good year before you can get it on the road.

2 addresses to find used buses in France from serious sellers: gaby-chariots.com bacqueyrisses.com Also contact the Irisbus network Get in touch with the regional transit authority near you, they're definitely retiring buses and they're very well-maintained vehicles.

Regarding the search for plans: Aside from DAF, which publishes them on a site with the complete list of serial numbers, you have to contact the converter. Be careful—a Mercedes bus might have been bodied by Setra, Kassbohrer, or Drogmüller.... that's who you need to turn to. Good luck! For mine (bodied in France by Héliez), it took me 3 months. The good news was they sent me along with the chassis plans for the DAF that I never managed to get directly from DAF!

On creating a compartment: The only company I know that's ready to do complete studies on any light or heavy vehicle is Polycomposit. Most cell manufacturers build them in series; these guys do custom and series work. To contact them: polycomposit.zoomici.com

Regarding the request to pass vehicle inspection: You can drive a car you've made yourself if you want. But be careful! Don't go hitting a kid outside a school with a modified or converted vehicle without having it inspected because in that case it's jail!

Quick reminder of the law: Any modification to the chassis, engine, body, interior fitting, or general appearance that makes the vehicle different from when it was initially inspected by the manufacturer requires the owner or converter to have it re-inspected.

If we apply the law strictly, a white vehicle repainted another color must pass inspection (because police blue is forbidden, as is the fluorescent orange of fire trucks, etc...) Continuing along the same lines, if a car seat is broken, you have to replace it with a new one or a seat from a vehicle in the same "type series" or... re-submit for inspection!

On the classic registration document issue: From what I know from having owned vehicles under classic registration, the restrictions are the same for all (but I'm not entirely sure). However, the regulations attached to the vehicle type still apply: If your registration document still shows the mention "bus" or "HGV," you remain subject to the tachograph and European regulations and the limitations that come with them (freeze barriers, having the proper license—HGV for HGV and commercial for commercial—and driving restrictions).

I remind you: the only solution for driving a heavy vehicle (HGV or commercial) on Sundays and without restrictions is motorhome homologation, non-specified type vehicle (NSPC), or specific conversion (VASP). In all cases these homologations prohibit the transport of goods or paid passenger transport. (That's why our file went all the way to the ministry because our bus has a rear loading ramp to load a car or stand materials and the inspectors wouldn't give me a non-specific classification because cargo transport in a section of the vehicle represented more than 10% of the volume).

Questions on taxes: If the vehicle is homologated as a motorhome or non-specified, no more axle tax. If it's VASP = axle tax. For vehicle inspection, the vehicle goes every year (like a truck) even if it's a bus because for this type of designations (VASP, motorhome, NSPC) it will be downclassed to a truck and can in no case and despite the conversion type carry more than 9 people including the driver. The cost of vehicle inspection for a type designation is around €110 from the latest I heard. The maintenance cost for this type of vehicle is different from a classic RV but not more expensive. In fact the parts are a bit more expensive on a commercial vehicle but they break down less often, and annual vehicle inspection (equivalent to the car's technical inspection) forces you to stay on top of maintenance. As an example: when you do an oil change on a commercial vehicle, that's 35 liters of oil... but your oil changes are much further apart than on a regular car. Bottom line it's the same either way.

On tanks: Another good tip I've already shared on VF.... If you're going to hang a compartmentalized tank under the chassis, just grab an unleaded or diesel tank of whatever capacity you want from a wrecked vehicle at a scrapyard! After rinsing it with specific products, it can carry your clean water without any issues. Cost of a 250L commercial vehicle compartmentalized tank: about €50 plus the rinsing product. Bonus: you get the attachment system and hoses for the pump with it! For the rinsing product check out dacd.com for example.

There we go, I hope I've shed some light on things... Let's not mess around with heavy vehicles. Latest known accident of a competitor of ours with a truck converted into a podium truck: To close windows he'd glued on metal panels like body shop guys do; but he hadn't prepared the surface properly for the adhesive and the panel tore off taking a chunk of the truck body with it. All that at 90 km/h on the highway! Lucky break it was at night on the A10 and there was nobody around. I'll let you responsible adults imagine if you'd been driving behind in a car with your kids and your car got cut in half by a framework of metal panels weighing 300 or 400 kilos..... The regulations are annoying, but you should know that most were put in place after several accidents, most of them fatal.

Here's a little joke to end on a lighter note...

How do you recognize a happy RV enthusiast?

By his left arm more tanned than his right from the sun through his window..... (sorry....)..
HÉ Hétéroclite ·
Hey patrick, I'm 21 and I'm working on converting a bus with a friend by December—that's when the bus we're looking at will turn 20 and won't be eligible for public transport anymore. The bus should cost us around €2,300 and it's in really good condition, so we think we're getting a good deal. Being young and short on money, I was wondering if you might have some tips for... uh sorry, some budget-friendly ideas for renovating with recycled materials and stuff like that. Thanks in advance.
SG Sgoub ·
THANK YOU! I'M GOING TO LOOK INTO THAT RIGHT NOW! 😉
BE Benhurd ·
Hi everyone, I'm also planning to convert a bus S53 as a second home.

And I'd like to meet someone who's already done this kind of conversion. Currently I'm in Reims, but I'm heading down south in 1-2 months for this project.

I'd also like to know how much insurance costs?? average fuel consumption of the S53

I have a budget of 8000? I'm planning 3500-4000? for the bus purchase the rest for the conversion and the finishing touches.

VUIBERT Benjamin😛

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