September 2026 Photo Contest Discussion Thread: "The Street as a Livelihood" (page 10 of 12)

Hi Kate,

But what else did you want me to do?

Nothing else—I’ve said it all. I think my messages were very clear, but the main point keeps getting dodged. Oh well.

And to be very honest: I don’t want to photograph misery, and if it ever happened, I wouldn’t publish the image. Others whose job it is do it very well. That’s my personal ethics. But far be it from me to "report" things that don’t suit my little self.

I never blamed you for not wanting to photograph human suffering, nor did I suspect you of reporting anything. My point was simply that the member who asked for the photo to be removed could’ve brought it up in the discussion thread. Something like, "I find your photo shocking, and I don’t think it belongs in the contest. Could we discuss this among ourselves, and if others feel the same, could you post a different one?" But no—most people either found it normal or buried their heads in the sand. That’s the mentality that bothers me. Period. It’s easy to understand, so why respond to things I never said?

Voyage Forum could’ve publicly replied that your photo was removed at a member’s request and suggested you post another one. They were a bit too casual about it.

Maybe, but I think they’ve got bigger fish to fry right now. And let’s not shift responsibility away from the person who reported it—they should’ve handled it the way you described.

As for anonymous reporting, it’s part of human nature. It’s always existed, and we won’t change that.

I know it’s how things are, and unlike what Attila says, I’m not discovering anything new. But it’s still legitimate for me to call it out, especially in a no-stakes contest meant for fun. It’s not impossible this was someone settling a score, either. On the other hand, blaming it all on human nature and saying there’s nothing we can do—that’s not how I see things.

After that, do as you please!

Of course, Agnès 😄 I was really happy when VF reopened, but ultimately, I don’t like the overall vibe of this site anymore, and the old spirit never came back—even if, sure, it wasn’t perfect before. This whole thing just confirmed it for me. I don’t get the impression there are as many hotheads elsewhere, nor this mentality of little bosses trying to impose their arbitrary rules like we used to see under the "old regime."

Happy shooting and safe travels!

that old spirit never came back

You’ve forgotten that old spirit. It was frantically clicking the report button to get rid of anyone who dared think differently.

If the reporter also had the good sense to flatter the admins, it was all the better...

How many disappeared because they were banned?

Banned for a day, a week, a month, forever.

So, a photo...

Human nature is imperfect—you either deal with it or become a hermit.

Maybe that imperfection is even what gives life its flavor and sets us apart from artificial intelligence—so understanding, so perfect, never raising its voice, that void of what makes life real.

Your reporter won’t change any more than you will.

That’s your common ground: stubbornness.

It’s mine too, and it’s gotten me into trouble. 😄

This will be my last post in this thread.

You’ve forgotten the old spirit. It was frantically clicking the report button to get rid of anyone who had the misfortune of not thinking like you. If the reporter also had the good taste to flatter those in charge, it was all the better... How many disappeared because they were banned? Banned for a day, a week, a month, forever.

True, I admit it. The difference is that discussions were more dynamic back then, so it went down better.

Human nature is imperfect—you either deal with it or become a hermit.

I’d still draw a line between imperfection and vice, which you might want to fight against.

So, a photo...

I’ve said it before—it’s not just about a photo, it’s about the principle.

Your reporter won’t change any more than you will. Stubbornness is your common ground.

The difference is that they’re a vicious snitch, while I’m calling out a vice. Not all stubbornness is morally equal.

It’s mine too, and it’s gotten me into trouble. Lol

I don’t know about you, but you’ve also got to weigh what’s worth being stubborn about.

Good evening, that photo of the disabled beggars jogged something in my visual memory. I knew it wasn’t a photograph (I see far fewer of those than paintings when I travel), so it could only be a painting I’d seen in a museum or a fairly traditional art exhibition. I finally remembered—it was last year at an exhibition in Lille. The painting is called: *The Beggars* or *The Cripples*. It was painted in: 1568 by: Pieter Brueghel, known as "the Elder" or "the Old." It belongs to: The Louvre Museum. To see it: - Go to the website www.collections.louvre.fr - In the collections search, type Pieter Brueghel - You’ll see 174 works over 9 pages; you’ll find it on page 3, row 3.

I’ll try to post it in this thread if I manage to figure out the internet.

It might be interesting to see how a well-known 16th-century painter tackled the subject. I don’t think any potential flagger has anything left to hope for if they flagged it to get it censored.

This Brueghel painting (*The Beggars*) reminds me of Jérôme Bosch’s work... There’s something mystical about it.

I’m revisiting the reporting issue. I’ve read message 160 in the thread several times—it was posted by VoyageForum.

"We receive between 2 and 3 reports per day for this thread.

Should we close it?"

That must be an unusually high number for VoyageForum to feel the need to inform members and ask the question (you could say they’re concerned about the situation and letting everyone know). Given how many views the posts in this thread get, it’s clear there aren’t many readers outside the contest. So these reports are coming from people who regularly participate in the contest and are flooding moderation with reports to force a decision! A coordinated effort? Or one person who’s practically unhinged, submitting report after report (2 to 3 a day)?

Yes. My memory led me to the Flemish painters, and that’s how I rediscovered the work, while searching with the painter’s name and beggars. After a few tries, I found it—including Jérôme Bosch.

Here we go (not enough pixels on what I could recover).

these actions therefore come from people who regularly participate in the contest

It’s almost certain.

A coordinated effort? A single, almost unhinged person posting report after report (2 to 3 per day)?

That’s entirely possible. Let’s look at the facts: this is an exceptional event since it may be the only contest where reports led to a photo being censored. So, what makes this contest different from the others? - I organized it because I won the previous one as a nearly new participant, which didn’t sit well with certain "veteran members" (as they call themselves...) who’ve had run-ins with me because they don’t like me and are bothered by my participation for reasons of their own. - Which photo was censored? Oh, one of mine. The question of its removal could’ve been debated among us, but instead, they chose to have it taken down cowardly. The connection to the previous point is likely. - So, a coordinated effort or "the act of an unbalanced individual with no organizational ties," as they say on TV (🤡)? Probably both. The unhinged person who doesn’t like me is the prime suspect in this case (with the presumption of innocence, of course). But the other reports are surely from their followers, clinging to a certain spirit of the site, who backed up their ringleader’s anger (who clearly can’t stand no longer being one).

Let's see if long-time members will be outraged by this unbearable table.

From the start, you’ve gone too far, too high, too all over the place. Your insinuations between the lines, but which you keep hammering on in message after message about one member (identifiable to anyone who’s been following the discussions), are nothing but baseless assumptions.

Depersonalize the facts, reframe the emotional side, and bring reason to the forefront. Unravel it and start again with a different perspective...

You post a photo. A member flags it. Moderation deletes it. It’s the same old story since VF existed, with just a few variations in the know-how.

Can you consider that the report was only about the photo and not about Pagaljavab—the-first-time-organizer-of-the-photo-contest? That when it comes to images posted on a public forum, the sliders for what’s acceptable, shocking, or an affront to dignity... (the hypersensitive can fill in the rest) aren’t set the same for everyone? That prudish eyes landed on your image, and a form of cowardice did the rest (reporting instead of taking the matter public)? That moderation missed the point: the impossibility of replacing the image and, above all, a diplomatic blunder (downright 🤪) by not informing the touchy author...

That there’s no cabal, no vengeance, no conspiracy.

That your initial reaction... over the top, followed by others, may have nipped the legitimacy of your request for an explanation in the bud. Demands, accusations, threats, pride—starting with outright aggression isn’t a strategic way to begin a conversation.

By bringing in humor, lightness, a touch of fatalism... by putting things into perspective... this tragicomedy that’s turning into a psychodrama could’ve stayed just a storm in a teacup. 😕

@Kola 😉

"Approved by Raga" *

I don’t remember a photo of a dog being gutted in the back of a Chinese restaurant kitchen sparking this much debate after being censored 🏴‍☠️

Support for Pagal 😛

* on the cover (Crumb’s drawing) of Janis Joplin’s *Cheap Thrills* album, there’s "Approved by Hell's Angels Frisco" in the bottom right corner

I’ll leave you to your judgment because I react how I want—whether you find it excessive, violent, unstrategic, illegitimate, over the top, or whatever, I couldn’t care less. You don’t get to tell me how to react or give me orders: I customize and frame things as I see fit, and I pull out what I want. I also don’t really get what gives you the right to step in with that tone. You’ll only recognize it later as superior and condescending.

That there’s no cabal, no vengeance, no conspiracy.

I never said there was a cabal or conspiracy—those are just words meant to discredit what I’m saying. But petty vengeance? Yeah, that’s totally plausible, and I stand by that.

That prudish eyes landed on your image, that a form of cowardice did the rest (reporting instead of taking the matter public). That moderation missed the point: the impossibility of replacing the image and, above all, a diplomatic blunder (downright crazy) by not informing the touchy author...

Cowardice (which is still ongoing, by the way), diplomatic failure—absolutely. That said, it’s not really about stakes here, since there aren’t any, but about principle. The personal issue is minor for me. Still, I won’t let it go on principle because I think it’s lame, and fighting that lameness to the end is worth my few wasted minutes.

This tragicomedy turning into a psychodrama could’ve stayed a storm in a teacup.

That’s your take. You see it that way, but I don’t experience it like that at all—it doesn’t affect me. I’m just following through on my approach the way I want to, when I have the time. Otherwise, no big deal.

By invoking humor, lightness, a touch of fatalism...

I’ll say it again: I react how I want, and trust me, never with fatalism. Who’s advising someone—no matter how minor the issue—to just resign themselves to fate? Not even the gods do that!

So, on October 7th, some people reignited their petty squabbles...

@Kola

Your veiled accusations, but you keep targeting the same member over and over

As if that were the style of the member in question, who’s known for being blunt and unfiltered. But, unless we’re in China, if you want to discredit someone...

@Moderation If it helps calm our Fouquier-Tinville’s outrage, I explicitly authorize you to confirm that I didn’t report anything in this thread or the September contest.

A brass band in Rīga (Latvia)

Your accusations between the lines, but the fact that you keep focusing message after message on one member (identifiable to anyone who follows the discussions a bit) are just assumptions without proof.

Between the lines because I don’t actually have absolute certainty. It’s their unprovoked hostility toward me that formed the hypothesis. After all, it could also just be another unbalanced person.

There are nearly 1,000 views on the first posts in this thread—way more than the number of participants, even assuming they checked out the photos multiple times. It’s possible the person who reported it is someone who looks at contest photos without participating (or even following the thread) and was shocked by your first photo (so potentially any VF member, really).

I’m publicly showing my solidarity with those—gendered or non-gendered—who reported your photo because I’m very prudish and because anything that offends even the slightest bit must be removed. You could’ve taken a page from our TV news, which blurs everything appropriately and whose presenters talk to the public like we’re all children, or from our administration, which practices "pas de vague" in such a sublimely exemplary way.

Even worse is your rebellion against these high-flying superior members who are always ready to selflessly impart bits of their vast knowledge. I have boundless admiration for them because they so skillfully put us in our place when needed—whether through their refined, biting remarks or their discreet, elegant inclusive writing. It’s unacceptable that some call them hypocrites ready to pie people just because their supreme intelligence doesn’t even allow them to stay humble and respectful toward ordinary folks.

Like Marienn, all you can do now is humbly beg for forgiveness for straying from the right path, knowing that something will always linger.

Thanks Kola for your message.

Taking a step back, broadening our perspective, trying to put ourselves in someone else’s shoes—these are things we sometimes forget to do. Thanks for reminding us of this good practice here.

I’ll add another question: if I had wanted to have the photo I found shocking removed, would I have dared to start a public debate? Probably not, given how vehement some reactions were. Would I have reported it? Probably not either. Now I’m stuck with my photo. Food for thought.

One of the challenges with this kind of exchange is that it’s written and can’t capture the nuances and subtleties of tone that come with spoken conversations.

Taking a step back, broadening your perspective, trying to put yourself in the other person’s shoes—these are things we sometimes, often, forget to do.

Same comment as in Kola: what’s with these condescending instructions, delivered in a wise tone with self-help vocabulary, implying I’m on the wrong path? “Refocus,” “broaden your perspective,” “take a step back,” “put yourself in the other’s shoes,” and so on... There are some serious contenders for the Nobel Prize for hypocritical, condescending do-goodery around here! Unless it’s about naturopathy.

Then this point of view, stated in such a superior tone, is clearly just the opinion of a small group that feels targeted. Have you noticed that some people fully support my approach? Because if one group disagrees (they have their reasons), can you accept that it’s entirely legitimate in the eyes of others? Can you admit that, despite the tone and the role you’ve assigned yourselves, you don’t hold the truth?

Thanks for reminding us of this good practice.

Interesting to learn that asking for a photo to be censored without discussing it in a contest where we’re just among ourselves is a good practice. That speaks volumes. Other disturbing practices by some members don’t get the same backlash. It’s just about being on the “right” side in the end.

I’ll add another question: if I had wanted the photo removed, would I have dared to start a public debate?

It’s true that debating isn’t really a local practice here: instead, it’s more about anonymous snitching and long-standing members with a superior tone dictating what’s right or wrong. Maybe you should take a step back and broaden your perspective, no? 😄

Personally, if several members had asked me to remove my photo, I would’ve replaced it with another one. Not happily, but I would’ve done it—I had others lined up.

Now I’m really stuck with my photo. Food for thought.

In the end, if the person bothered by the photo had discussed it civilly, either publicly or privately, wouldn’t the problem be solved? No more unnecessary “food for thought,” right? In this situation, I admit that refocusing, broadening your perspective, taking some distance, letting go, opening your chakras, reflecting a bit... would’ve been beneficial.

One of the difficulties with this kind of exchange is that it’s written and can’t capture the nuances and subtleties of tone in oral conversations.

It’s true that I might overdo it for some, but that doesn’t reflect the fact that I do it calmly because, the rest of the time, I don’t even think about it. However, I find that condescending tones come through just fine in writing. Is the same true for ironic tones? 🤨

I’m publicly declaring my solidarity with those, whether gendered or non-gendered, who reported your photo because I’m very prudish and because anything that offends even the slightest person must be removed.

Oh, my dear Jojo, I knew you were like this…

😂

Even worse, your rebellion against the practices of these high-flying senior members who are always ready to devote themselves to instilling a few crumbs of their vast knowledge in us—whom I admire boundlessly because they know so well how to put us in our place when necessary with their refined and biting judgments or their discreet and elegant inclusive writing. It’s unacceptable that some call them hypocrites ready to pie people just because their supreme intelligence doesn’t even allow them to remain humble and respectful toward ordinary mortals.

Now that you mention it, I see the immense impertinence of my blasphemy. One cannot disrupt the cosmic order like this without triggering the wrath of the Gods (and Goddesses, because they too are gendered).

Just like Marienn, all that’s left for you is to humbly beg for forgiveness for straying from the righteous path, knowing that something will always remain of it.

Thanks for opening my eyes, Jojo. But I’m afraid I’m already excommunicated 😂