So where are they and what are they doing? (page 18 of 33)

Hi,

I get that you think and say that, but I guarantee you’re totally out of touch with the times. Here are a few references, including this one from 2018: More French than Breton: 17% Only French: 22% All while saying and showing themselves to be very European. https://hal.science/hal-03713437/document

The most interesting part of your survey is the roughly 5% of "others or won’t say." Too bad they weren’t broken down further because there’s a world of difference between Well, I feel Venezuelan and What’s the point of this question? I don’t care—none of this defines my identity.

The spirit of the times and these groupings into mythological nations, religions, economic ideologies. The era of stunted anthropos.

Catherine

Like Ms. Sophie L., who posts a photo of herself, let's just say scantily clad, and who seems to be, shall we say, of questionable virtue 😉

Could you please send me a screenshot as soon as possible?

Good evening Catherine,

The spirit of the times and these aggregations into mythological nations, religions, and economic ideologies. The era of stunted anthropos.

Isn’t this what people live by? All nations are mythological. Besides, this isn’t "my" survey—I know from experience and discussions that very few people are indifferent to it.

Michel

All nations are mythological.

Totally agree. But the mythology of this new millennium is Star Wars, it’s the space conquest with Mr. Musk sending spacecraft while running SpaceX. The downside is we might forget the first peoples—the Aboriginal Australians, the Amazonian Indigenous peoples, etc.— and miss understanding the earliest roots of humanity.

Hi Michel,

Isn’t this what men live for? All nations are mythological. Besides, this isn’t "my" survey, but from experience and conversations, I know very few people are indifferent to it.

And do their kisses follow them from afar? It’s all about the setting. The setting.

Given the marinade we’re developing in, indifference on this matter has to be earned.

Catherine

Hi Catherine,

Given the marinade we’re developing in, indifference on the matter is something we achieve.

No, I don’t think so. And the fact that you or I might possibly be capable of it doesn’t mean it’s something we should wish for everyone. Without roots and without religion, people are orphaned and unhappy—I’ve seen it many times, and in my opinion, what we’re seeing in France and Europe right now illustrates that. I’ve even come to believe that the French universalist ideology’s inability to address religious and identity issues isolates it from the world, erases its influence, and leads it to ruin.

Michel

Without roots and without religions, men are orphans and unhappy

They are, above all, free. What a terrible misfortune it is to be free...

After that, are they ready for it? That’s another question.

Apparently not in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, etc.

The Iranians seem to be partly ready.

Without roots and without religion, people are orphaned and unhappy,

I agree with this statement

After that, are they ready to be? That’s another question. Apparently not in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, etc.

Hi, Freedom is your own vision of things, but maybe freedom is conceived differently in those countries. You see things through your own Western filter. And Pakistanis don’t want the Western way of life.

Without roots and without religion, people are orphaned and unhappy—I’ve seen it many times, and in my opinion, what we’re seeing in France and Europe right now illustrates this.

I see some truth in that, as long as we take the word *religion* in a very broad sense. When it comes to simply belonging to a religious denomination, though, I think people remain trapped by outdated rules... These rules may serve a purpose as a regulator of instincts to maintain social cohesion, but that’s about it for the individual, who often stays stuck in a hypocritical morality. Religion as a social police force or to keep society together? Maybe... But for individual happiness, I’m pretty skeptical. If we consider the "religious" as a transcendent experience, that’s a whole different story.

You see things through your own Western filter.

You see things through your own Western filter in search of yourself.

Freedom may be conceived differently in those countries.

Oh really? And what about Iran? The Arab Spring? All those men and women who fled Afghanistan?

And Pakistanis don’t want the Western way of life

Did you ask *all* Pakistanis for their opinion?

Why are there protests, murders, repression if everything is so rosy?

A little reading:

Amnesty International RSF

Good evening,

Religion [...] to maintain its cohesion

Yet that’s its primary function—to create a sense of belonging to a group governed by defined and identifiable rules. Much like those absurdities called nations, with a few sizeable nuances, of course. Because the alternative, unless you fall under the third major contemporary pole (the hypnotized frenzied consumers), isn’t really the freedom Agnès refers to—it’s loneliness. And its fragility. I can see how that might be dizzying.

Alright! This isn’t the kind of conversation for 5-line messages! It’s too heavy, and I need to take care of my Greek ferries, light and stony lands, original language.

Take care 🙂

Cat

I’ve also noticed among the people around me that those who TRULY have faith (not just religion out of habit or upbringing) seem happier.

That said, we can’t force ourselves to have faith—it’s not something you can just decide to have.

On the other hand, I do think there’s a growing sense of deep loneliness these days.

You see things through your own Western filter of self-discovery.

? Not at all. What I wrote wasn’t understood. I was talking about traditional societies. It’s obvious that when you stay in three-star hotels, you don’t see what makes up the common people 😉 My first trip to Peru, I was in Cabañaconde—the person hosting me was a very poor farmer from the Altiplano, and the place where he lived was in deplorable conditions. And I’ve been to plenty of places like that, I’d say. And when travelers are on the road, they don’t see behind the scenes. Of course, in a three-star hotel, the rooms are clean, there’s a spa, all-you-can-eat breakfast, the staff is attentive... Which is what most people on this forum do 😉

Oh really? And what about Iran? The Arab Spring? All those men and women who fled Afghanistan?

Is life better in the West? Since society is so individualistic, what do we really have in the end? People overconsuming tranquilizers and medications, homeless people under the influence of fentanyl in the streets of San Francisco or Los Angeles. Traditional societies have kept their family foundations.

Good evening Agnès, Okay, just a reply without going into too much detail...

They are mostly free. What a terrible misfortune it is to be free...

Free? The freedom we were told in 2020 wasn’t the norm or a right, but a temporary situation, preferably in line with collective standards? Who still doesn’t get it? 🤪 Young French people are among the least free in Europe, and it’s not because of too much religion.

Apparently not in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, etc. The Iranians seem partly ready.

What’s terrible, reading you, is that you’re justifying a radical stance, an ideological rejection of identities and beliefs by once again bringing up Afghanistan. If the Taliban’s country is really the only counterexample you have to support your point, I find that a bit weak. Syria? Did you visit Assad’s Syria in its heyday, on the ruins of Hama crushed multiple times in the name of Ba'athism? Iran? Are you really sure you’re not clouded by a press that wants to show you Iranians as something they’re hardly at all? It’ll be complicated to discuss all this—you have an ideological axis, and ironically, a rather religious one in its own way. And we can only fear the woman of one book.

Michel

As they say, you don’t have a monopoly on heart...

Traditional societies have kept their family foundations.

Where hypocrisy reigns supreme...

I don’t get this apology for hypocrisy.

But we’re getting off topic. Besides, we’ve lost Joël.

Just because some French people are overwhelmed by their freedom doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

It’s pretty tough to have a discussion with you. You’ve got an ideological stance (well, do you even have one?) that’s all over the place, mainly focused on controversy and contrarianism.

But whatever.

Feel free to prefer Afghanistan over France. I’ll leave you to exile yourself there with my blessing.😛

it’s loneliness

Isn’t it when man is alone with himself that he’s supposed to meet God?

And if he’s facing himself during that encounter, doesn’t that mean man is God?

Hi,

Isn’t it alone, facing himself, that man is supposed to meet God?

And if he’s facing himself during that encounter, doesn’t that mean man is God?

No idea what he’s supposed to meet. But these days, under our skies, I get the feeling he’s meeting what we call *psicofarmaci* here (the chemical molecules that smooth out the psyche, giving him social acceptability).

Catherine

Hello...

Just because some French people are overwhelmed by their freedom doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

It’s astonishing to hear such a thing. You always bring up Taliban Afghanistan as if France should define and position itself in relation to the most extreme example—a kind of reductio ad Hitlerum. What I see, personally, is a country where the State, ironically, fills the role of religion: In France, the State meddles in everything—from the spelling of your first name to how you raise your children, from the relationship you’re supposed to have with your body to the many resulting regulations, from the Caillavet law to vaccine mandates, from your health (to the point of now forcing you to have mutual insurance) to pestering you with screening campaigns, from the color of your house’s facade to what you’re allowed to say, almost to what you’re allowed to think in silence, from your freedom to move around to soon dictating what you can wear in the "public space". This State, which barely hides its project to control online expression, eliminate anonymity, increase surveillance, and police opinions by misrepresenting them, you see as an asset against religions. I disagree—and I think what belongs to religion should be left to religion.

Michel