Trip to the Raja Ampat Islands in June (Indonesia) (page 2 of 6)

Hi everyone!

We’re reopening this thread because we’re looking for 2 travel companions for a 7-day boat tour in the Raja Ampat Islands! It’s with Deni, the same tour we discussed in this thread last year! 🙂

My boyfriend and I are heading back to Indonesia next summer for the second time. He’s 24, I’m 23, and we’re backpacking. We love discovering stunning natural landscapes and more remote spots... and we really want to visit the amazing Raja Ampat Islands!! It’s a simple boat, and we’ll mostly sleep on the boat and sometimes in tents on the islands!

For the boat tour to happen, we need a minimum of 3 people... so we’re looking for other travelers who’d like to join us. The boat tour would be from June 1st to 7th, 2013, but the dates are flexible and could also be the following week, from June 7th to 14th.

We really hope to find some travel companions :) It would be an AMAZING experience!!!

If you’re interested, you can reply to this message or send me a private email.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Maryse and Jocelyn

Hey Lolo from the Islands, I’ve tried digging into these options several times—the prices are absolutely staggering, and the situation in Papua is tense with tourists. Few offers with decent accommodations at reasonable prices. However, luxury cruises on wooden boats (like SeaTrek) are really well-regarded, and friends who’ve done them found it sublime (and safe). With the recent fuel price hikes, there are protests everywhere and inter-religious conflicts, like in the Moluccas. Recently, 50 sticks of dynamite were stolen, and a prison in Aceh was set on fire (100 terrorists escaped)—this isn’t going to make security in Indonesia any easier. Security here is getting worse and worse... makes me wonder if I’ll stay. See you soon, I hope...

hi Pierre 🙂

About Raja Ampat: Lazslo-the-know-it-all (but it's true he knows everything) who's active on Lonely Planet says you can rough it. The trick is speaking Indonesian, having time to negotiate a boat with a fisherman, and above all, not going through the Indonesians who know how to use the internet. But I'm getting pretty good at this sport, having used this technique in places without tourist infrastructure like the Banggai Islands, Taka Bonerate, or even the Taman National of the 8 Pulau on West Sumbawa (not far from your place—it's worth the trip!).

I'm thinking of putting together a small group of 5-6 for Raja Ampat (like Cacaouète mentioned earlier in the discussion), but the plan's been postponed because I'll probably have to fight my employer to keep my annualized part-time schedule (and the 4 months of vacation that come with it).

As for safety, is it really that bad?? It's crazy, I don't hear anything about it where I live (in... beep... to avoid someone saying the word), but I have to say, unlike you, I'm not living there year-round. On the other hand, the problems in Kuta—yeah, I hear about those a lot. Maybe that'll save Lombok from being overdeveloped, but if it's making you wonder whether you'll stay, that's worrying.

I passed through Kuta last winter (but just for one night!) and I'll be back in Lombok next winter (in July-August—even if I'm working, I think I'm better off in my little village than in the overcrowded beach resorts of Bali-Lombok 😉). Okay, I'll stop there—with this little detour, we're gonna get the self-appointed moderators all worked up again.

So, see you next winter, inshallah !

Hey, the 8 Pulau national park—I can’t see where it is; I’ll take a closer look. Yeah, you only really notice the security issues when you live there because it’s a build-up of daily vandalism and pressure from these mafia-like groups on all tourist activities (loads of "historic" expats have already left). The vibe! Otherwise, it’s still a stunning region.

Uhhh, religious conflicts in Indonesia? Where? Are you referring to the ones in the Moluccas between 1999 and 2003? I'm in Indonesia right now, and there are no conflicts—just a few protests about fuel, but nothing to worry about. Maybe there are a couple of tensions where you are in Lombok, but that’s normal for Lombok and hasn’t changed. As for problems in tourist areas, yeah, but first, that’s nothing new, second, no one’s forced to go there, and third, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the country.

As for the prison break, it wasn’t in Aceh but in North Sumatra if I’m not mistaken (the news said "Sumatera Utara," which means North Sumatra), and it was prisoners of all kinds who escaped, not just terrorists (plus, Indonesian "terrorists" aren’t like Bin Laden or Mullah Omar—anyone who knows the country gets what I mean ;-)). Note that the police have already recaptured most of them. Where did you get your wrong info from?

In Papua, the situation is the same as always—the Papuans don’t like Indonesians, but they’re cool with us.

Dude, don’t post stuff like this—you’re misleading people!!!! And God knows I’m critical of Indonesia, but you’ve gotta be objective...

In the Indonesian media, they were talking about around ten Indonesian terrorists, five of whom had been recaptured! The others are common criminals—I imagine there’s a bunch of joint smokers and scooter thieves in the mix, basically dangerous types 😎 ... That said, many conflicts are kept quiet: last year in Solo, things got really heated against the FPI, with 3 deaths and 3 days of tension—just a few brief mentions in the papers ...

Oh wow, that’s too bad of course, but it’s only three deaths—it happens all the time in Indonesia. When they burn a Shiite mosque, when they catch a few thieves, when one village carries out a punitive expedition against another, it’s just everyday life in this country.

It’s nothing compared to the tens of thousands of deaths during the civil war in the Moluccas, the atrocities committed during East Timor’s independence, or those in Aceh during the GAM era, not to mention Papua.

Oh, and speaking of atrocities—Wiranto is running in the presidential elections! I saw his new ad yesterday: a Muslim hat on his head and "in sha’a Allah" on his lips. It was hilarious, given who he is!!! In his old ad, he was dressed as a karateka—what a man!!!

On the other hand, I see you’re still keeping up with life back home from afar—alhamdulillah! :-))))

Hi Pierre, Mo, and Naps,

Great to see you all here 🙂

I won’t dive into the debate, though—my specialty is more about islands 😛

It makes sense, Pierre, that you don’t know these 8 *Pulau*—that’s their future name. The government, in partnership with a Swedish green entrepreneur, has launched a dual Eco Region project: Tanjung Ringgit http://tanjungringgit.com and, just across the way on the Sumbawa side, the 8 islands: http://eightislands.co.id.

Speaking of Tanjung Ringgit, which I’ve studied more closely, the project seems really innovative and interesting. The goal is to create large green regions based on eco-management and sustainable development. They’re talking about sustainable tourism, eco-architecture, permaculture, energy self-sufficiency, and involving local communities through cooperatives, etc. The project is well thought out, and right now, they’re looking for people to jump into this adventure… so, food for thought 😉

The downside is that travelers like me probably won’t be able to go there anymore, since the accommodations will likely be pretty high-end. But if that’s what it takes to protect these areas from being overrun by big hotel chains, well… I won’t restart the endless debate about the effects of tourism "development," but selfishly speaking, I’m pretty happy to have this kind of project near my future home instead of marinas, shopping malls, amusement parks, and massive hotel complexes.

Anyway… since these islands are turning toward tourism, I can start lifting the "secret." I’m gonna go a little off-topic here… Sorry about that 😊 These islands are located off the coast of Poto Tano. Pulau Kenawa is the most well-known. It’s mostly visited by locals who come to spend their Sundays there, so it’s the dirtiest of them all, with the usual trash you’d expect in places frequented by locals. That doesn’t stop the island from being gorgeous, both above: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/...82640_52102515_n.jpg

and below:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/...640_1975583624_n.jpg

It’s dominated by a small hill you absolutely have to climb:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/...640_1334754217_n.jpg

The interior of the island is covered in tall, colorful grasses:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/...2640_162938197_n.jpg

The neighboring island, Pulau Namo, is similar. I think it’s with these grasses that our dear Sasak people build their roofs.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/...7640_295315096_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/...640_1311460667_n.jpg

On Pulau Beleng, there’s a beautiful mangrove bathed in turquoise water (which is pretty rare):

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/...640_1119054257_n.jpg

Further east, Pulau Bedil is stunning…

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/...2640_190447865_n.jpg

with a great hotel right in the middle of the coconut trees 🙂

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/...7640_762310301_n.jpg

and just across from it, Pulau Keramat, just as beautiful:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/...640_1118626087_n.jpg

where Rumaji was trying to spearfish in 10 cm of water:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/...640_1518928956_n.jpg

These last two islands are better known because the Perama Y cruise boats make a short stop there. For these two, which are further away, we didn’t leave from Poto Tano but from a small Bajau village right across. I remember, it was a Friday 😎

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/...7640_450661763_n.jpg

😠😠😠

So now we can’t add photos hosted elsewhere anymore!

Oh well, guess we’ll just have to follow the links 🙁

And I’m not gonna bother posting illustrated messages anymore… what a bummer 😐

I don’t see where these islands are. I went to Pulau Moyo a while back, but that was ages ago. Back then, there was just the rangers' building with 2-3 rooms—uhhh, let’s say *very* basic—plus a crappy little kitchen area where you could cook your own meals. At the other end of the island, there was a super-luxury hotel where, according to local legends, Michael Jackson himself had stayed—by helicopter, no less. But no sign of eight islands. The ones you’re talking about are on the east side, heading toward Flores? Because in Sumbawa, apart from Moyo, there are only islands to the east, right? Though I didn’t go to the southern part... That eco-project thing—yeah, we’ll see. Most of the ones I’ve seen so far were "eco" in name only, but there are exceptions. Oh, and good news, which will make Momo happy if he’s reading: the FPI is still up to its usual antics in its crusade against "immorality" (the people’s, because when it comes to the government’s immorality and institutional corruption, they’re silent). But they got into trouble today, and their goons are in a bit of a mess because two women died because of them. We’ll see how this plays out, but the government dug up an old law saying that ormas (mass organizations) aren’t allowed to act as police. Poor FPI!

No no, nothing to do with Pulau Moyo, Naps 🙂 You should check out the small islands right in front of Poto Tano (Sumbawa Barat) on Google Earth.

The Eco-Region project is solid. It’s led by John Higson, a Swede who’s done this before, but there’s definitely a risk that local officials will mess things up trying to make as much money as possible along the way... and also the locals themselves, who might struggle to get on board with such a concept...

Oh yeah, I know this area—it's gorgeous, but there's not a drop of water within 20 km, good luck developing tourism there. Plus, the land is owned by a mobster involved in scandals in Jakarta. It’s not gonna be easy.

I saw some land supposedly for sale in the area a while back, but I was advised against it. We’ll see. I prefer the Sumbawa project—it’s an island that’s really worth the detour.

The entire peninsula will be supplied with water by the Pandanduri Dam, whose construction was inaugurated by SBY two years ago: http://thedevelopmentadvisor.com/...danduri-dam-... There are some photos of the construction site on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BendunganPandanDuri

Full project report: https://docs.google.com/...VlOTZiYzQ1MTE4NmNhMg

I think water will be much less of an issue than in Sumbawa, given the proximity to Mount Rinjani.

The land status issue remains, but given the size (nearly 400 hectares), I think there’s a lease agreement (contracted with the mafia—quite possible). I can confirm that you should absolutely avoid buying anything by the sea there.

This project is located around Pantai Tangsi, a pink beach that’s been buzzing on the Indonesian internet for two years. It’s only busy on Sundays. A few tour guides are starting to take their clients there (but not many, since it’s far from everything). You can also go on your own—it’s a bit of a hassle if you don’t know the area, but it’s doable. There are a lot of scooter accidents just before reaching the beach; the path down is a real trial course.

Regarding the 8 Eighlands project on Sumbawa, it seems to have just started—the site is still pretty empty. Now’s the time to visit. You’ll need to charter a boat from the fishing village just behind Poto Tano port and bring camping gear since there’s no accommodation. The campsite is nice: http://500px.com/photo/3964692

Further south on Sumbawa, there’s also the Maluk-Sekongkang area with stunning beaches. The town of Maluk and its karaoke scene is pretty sketchy, but the surrounding area is gorgeous, with a special mention for Jelenga Beach (a few kilometers north of Maluk). You can stay in very nice and affordable bungalows there (don’t expect to make friends if you can’t hold a conversation about the last—or next—surf session. Even Rumaji, who could get a pile of rocks talking, didn’t manage).

I can only wish the Swede good luck—he’s gonna need it. Because whether it’s Sumbawa, Lombok, or anywhere else, this country isn’t a walk in the park for a foreigner trying to set something up. Even for locals, it’s not exactly straightforward. As long as it stays small-scale, it’s manageable—just gotta grease a few palms at the municipality, the mosque, or the church, and you’re good. But as soon as things grow, it’s a whole different story. There’s always some mustachioed guy lurking around looking to take his cut. That irrigation project sounds serious, though:

"A survey on the dam’s potential was conducted in 1978, followed by a technical study and an environmental impact analysis in 2009."

31 years between the two studies—that’s what I call *speedy*…

"The project would be completed within the next five years."

Yeah, just like the road from Jayapura to Wamena, which has been on maps for at least 15 years but still doesn’t exist on the ground. I’m taking bets, personally—I’m putting 1000 € down that their project won’t be ready by the stated year. Lolo, you in? You putting 1000 € on the table? :-))

"cost an estimated Rp 800 billion (US$92.8 million)."

Ahhh, now *that’s* good news—I can already see the mustaches twitching. There’s money to be made!!!

The eight islands—yeah, I know where they are. It’s a pretty rugged region, and it’s not my favorite spot in the country. What’s the deal with the coral reefs?

Yes, the coral reefs are still well preserved down there (compared to the rest of the region).

I wouldn’t bet on it 😉

But I think we shouldn’t compare Indonesia from the 80s-90s to the country it is now. In less than five years, the country has become a hotspot for foreign investors, and economic growth is strong. Every year, I see the changes, and through the rising cost of my trips, I can tell just how fast they’re catching up. Of course, the country started from a very low base, so not everything will happen overnight (I’ll add a selfish "thank goodness"—if it modernizes too quickly, there won’t be much left to see). Poverty is still present, but it’s decreasing (in Lombok, it’s obvious). I had the chance to visit the industrial zone in Surabaya. It’s a non-stop ballet of trucks. You see dozens of brand-new companies, often European brands. While in France, a factory closes every day, over there, one opens daily in an industrial zone that must stretch at least 100 km. An Indonesian middle class is emerging. Its consumption will drive the country forward. Multinationals are already competing for this new middle class (see the business press)—L’Oréal and Renault have just made massive investments in Indonesia.

All this to say that the money that was so lacking for infrastructure until very recently is becoming less and less of an issue. Economists estimate that by 2030, Indonesia will be the world’s 6th-largest economy... ahead of Germany. They’re still poorly organized and corrupt, that’s for sure and won’t change anytime soon, so I agree that the 5-year timeline might not be met. But the 1978–2009 gap won’t happen again. Of course, remote places like Wamena won’t be the first to benefit from infrastructure modernization, but check out Lombok’s road network in 2007 vs. 2013—it feels like a leap into another century (even if we’re not yet at wide 4-lane highways with speed cameras... phew!). Same for airports: they’re building tons of new ones (which annoys me because more and more little paradises are becoming accessible), and they’re also doubling the capacity of existing ones.

Infrastructure spending will rise from 3.5% to 5% of a GDP that’s set to double in five years: http://www.lefigaro.fr/...mondiale-en-2030.php

Indonesia as the 6th economic power by 2030? Do you believe that?

Personally, the predictions from economists and other analysts—those clowns who say, "Yes, this year we forecast 2.37% growth and a 9.92% unemployment rate. But next year, growth will rise to 3.46% and unemployment to 10.05%. In 30 years, oil reserves will have dropped by 42.34%, and OPEC production will have halved"—have always made me laugh. Their grand predictions usually turn out to be wrong, but everyone forgets, and what matters is the announcement effect at the time.

Let’s be serious—6th place, right behind Germany? So who’d be ahead of them? The US, China, Japan, Germany, and one more? What a joke!!!

It’s like those economists who say India’s going to eat our lunch. They should go take a look...

That said, Indonesia *is* moving, yeah, but not *that* much.

First, prices. They’ve just returned to pre-currency crisis levels. Back then, the country was expensive—more than Thailand, for example. We enjoyed low prices for years, but that’s over; back to square one. And let’s not forget all the speculation and scams, because there’s no reason the country should be this expensive. Just one example: gas is cheaper than in Thailand, but transportation costs more. Go figure...

The roads. Yeah, they’re building them, and it’s not new. But we’ll see in a few years what’s left of those roads. Half—or more—of the budget gets embezzled, and they work with what’s left: a very thin layer of asphalt that’ll develop potholes in no time. I’ve seen it in quite a few parts of this beautiful country, and if we remember in, say, 2-3 years, we’ll be talking about the roads in Lombok again. Though if it becomes super touristy, they’ll make an effort with the roads—not because they’ll steal less, but because they’ll have a bigger budget (which could’ve been used for other islands, but that’s the least of the mustachioed crooks’ worries).

Foreign investments. That’s not new either—more like the day before yesterday, pre-currency crisis. Back then, they were investing like crazy: cheap, near-slave labor, plenty of raw materials—everything big corporations love. Then came the crisis, the bombs, the war in the Moluccas, and the big shots pulled out. Now that the country’s more stable, they’re coming back. Totally normal. Unfortunately, locals only get the crumbs because wages are still miserable.

The middle class. Here, I agree with you, and I’m in a good position to know—my partner’s part of it. When I met her, she already had her BlackBerry, her computer, her laptop, her motorbike, etc. There *is* growth, no denying it—it’s the Asian miracle, as economists like to say. Malls are packed, people are buying, buying, buying.

Okay, but the roots remain: the "I-don’t-give-a-damn" attitude and corruption aren’t going anywhere. And despite all the flashy achievements, if you look closer, it’s just a facade—everything’s been thrown together. So yeah, things are evolving, but chaotically and only on the surface. Because Indonesia’s economic growth has nothing to do with China’s. Anyone who’s been to China sees what a real emerging economic power looks like. In China, people work hard, and they work *right*. Indonesia? Uh… not really. They’re just riding the wave of Asian growth.

A quick example? In China, they have a super-dense, well-organized rail network. In Indonesia, train collisions are super common—due to negligence, sure, but also because people steal the rails to sell them later.

Just read the papers or watch TV (which my partner and her mom force on me daily) to see that Indonesia hasn’t changed *that* much. And of course, religion doesn’t help—quite the opposite.

So, the emergence of a middle class? Yes. A little less poverty? Yes, and that’s great. But that’s about it...

Though for us, it *is* changing, as you pointed out—everything’s getting more expensive. Except the services are still the same: *yang penting cepat kaya* (the important thing is to get rich fast), as they say!!!

For the rest, as a friend once said: the world is turning into one big supermarket...

Foreign investments. That also isn’t new—well, it’s more like from the day before yesterday, back in the pre-monetary crisis era. Back then, investments were pouring in: cheap exploited labor, plenty of raw materials—everything big companies needed to be happy. Then came the crisis, the bombs, the war in the Moluccas, and the big shots pulled out. Now that the country’s more stable, they’re coming back, which is totally normal. Unfortunately, the locals only get the crumbs because wages are still miserably low.

Yeah, I agree with all of that, but it’ll bring in a lot of money to develop infrastructure. After that, Indonesians aren’t as hardworking as the Chinese, maybe. Not in the palm oil fields, at least.

In China, they have a super dense and well-organized rail network. In Indonesia, train collisions are super frequent—due to negligence, of course, but also because people steal the rails to resell them.

Indonesia just isn’t made for rail, too many earthquakes. Look at the huge success of Lion Air.

Let’s be serious—6th place, just behind Germany?

Nope. *Ahead* 😎 But with, let’s admit it, a population five times larger and twice as young. Of course, the « I-don’t-give-a-damn » attitude and corruption won’t disappear overnight, but we’re talking about 15-year forecasts here.

Naps, you’re touching on one of my favorite topics, but we’re really going off-topic... This prophecy seems totally realistic to me, but there are unknowns: natural disasters, attacks, and... if the Chinese manage to make the Yuan replace the dollar (which is doomed to collapse). In that case, I agree with you—the Indonesians will just have to ride the wave coming from the South China Sea ;-)

Optimism is beautiful!!! The 6th? Starting from the bottom?:-) So they're going to do better than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, the Gulf countries, Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand? Thanks Lolo for this laugh, I'm still chuckling while writing these lines!! It reminds me of something I read in an Indonesian Islamo-fascist magazine (Hidayat, to name it), namely that the 1997 monetary crisis was created by the West because Indonesia was about to become a superpower (in English in the text) and the white people were afraid. You see, there are visionaries in Indonesia too, except that 16 years later, Sister Anne still doesn’t see anything coming... But yeah, I know, predictions for 2030, the art of analysts not getting their feet wet. So in 17 years. Funny, this year marks 17 years since I’ve known the country. Well, I don’t see them taking the 6th spot—Indonesia in 2013 isn’t even at the ankles of Malaysia or Singapore in 1996... China, that’s another story. They want to become the bosses, and they’re putting in the effort. Both from the government, which wants to develop the country and turn it into a modern state (not the case in Indonesia, where the government has no long-term vision—the unwritten rule is to fill their pockets now, work as little as possible, and make political decisions that are stupider than the last), and from the population, which plays along (not the case in Indonesia either—I’m not saying they don’t work, but let’s just say the climatic, cultural, and religious factors aren’t the same). Whether the yuan replaces the dollar, I don’t know, but I think East Asia, with its Chinese engine, might just give Western arrogance a good kick in the pants—and honestly, it’ll serve us right. But definitely not thanks to the Indonesians!!!! By the way, I just asked my girlfriend what she thinks about the 6th spot, and she kinda agrees—she said "boleh":-))

Good news, by the way, which will please Momo if he’s reading us: the FPI continues to cause trouble in its crusade against immorality (the people’s, because when it comes to the government’s immorality and institutional corruption, they don’t say a word). But today they got a real beating, and their goons are caught up in a nasty mess because two women died because of them. Let’s see how this plays out, but the government has dug up an old law saying that ormas (civilian groups) aren’t allowed to take the place of the police. Poor FPI!

Thanks, guys—this is a really interesting discussion! A bit off-topic, sure, but it belongs here because it raises an underlying question: will low-budget travelers and backpackers still have a place in Indonesia in a few years? ... As for the FPI, I’m keeping an eye on it, but without much hope. The government’s threats to dissolve this bunch of lunatics are endless. The police want to take back control of the streets and stop Islamist raids? In other cities, they *escort* them! And it’s on the ideological front that they should be fought—reminding them they’re not the only ones in the world, that fasting properly (or not) is a personal matter, not their business. But on that front? Crickets! For the latest events, I think they didn’t run into locals but rather "gangsters"...

Ah, there you are at last—took you long enough to chime in on this one!!! Yeah, it’s those gangsters who refused the FPI monkeys’ diktat. And if I had to choose, I’m not sure who’s worse. Of course, the ideological battleground is where they need to be fought, but it’s far from a done deal given how much of the population is still steeped in bigotry. You’d see it, Momo (though you already have, but just saying), they’re really going all in right now... On another note, seen on TV these past few days: 1-How to make palm sugar (gula merah) using coconut water and soap or detergent, 2-How to mix cooking oil with diesel. But don’t try this at home, of course—the TV channel disclaims all responsibility in case of copycats ;-) As for the budget plan, the answer’s simple: Just like before the monetary crisis, when there were few budget travelers in the country, in 2013 it’s the same story. Lately, I’ve met quite a few travelers—not just budget ones, either—who’ve told me Indonesia’s over: too expensive and lousy service. They’re heading to Thailand instead, and honestly, I get it... Oh, Momo, I’m still waiting for your enlightened take on number 6. Not the prisoner from the show, but the 6th economic power...