Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome (page 35 of 161)

A FR1, WHY NOT?

BUT WHY A GTX?

In the FR1 range there are models with fewer features for cheaper.

What's the point of the engine AC (which eats up tons of energy and horsepower) when you're gonna have to rip out basically all the air ducts to do your conversion? And honestly, the ideal setup for a camper is a 24/220v AC that you can run off batteries, a sleeping cabin with 220v power, or a generator—without firing up your engine.

Same deal with those velvet seats—you're gonna end up junking almost all of them! Better to negotiate trading in a basic interior for just the 2 or 3 seat sets you actually want.

Same goes for the carpeting, ceiling lights, overhead luggage racks, panel trim, toilets that definitely won't be where you want them in your conversion, etc...

Why tear apart something really nice just to rebuild it? Better to start with basic stuff!

For internal plans, I think Renault should have them. As for external plans, I've got them for lots of models. Drop me a private message with your email and I'll send them over—Illustrator, CorelDraw, AutoCAD, or EPS format. Just specify which in your message.

For the paperwork side, you'll need to check with the authorities. With Renault, it'll only be necessary if you're doing major body or chassis modifications.

Final bit of advice: don't pick your bus based on looks—pick it based on what you actually want to do with it. If you've read through the 30 pages, you should get the difference between chassis and frame, for example...

Anyway, welcome to the club of crazies....

PATRICK26

Hi,

I'd be keen to come meet up with you...

In a year I'm going to become a freelance entertainment worker and my colleagues are already all talking about either getting a campervan or just getting a Trafic van with a mattress... Given that we'll have scattered contracts (if we even get them!) and we generally have limited means...

As for me, I'm wondering if a bus wouldn't do the trick, and I think it's better to go with a city-type vehicle without a cargo hold, rather than a big thing with a cargo hold that will be taller! Because I'll need to go to quite a few different places, I imagine! And I already find an R21 a bit large (yes, I'll need to brush up on my classics!)

I was thinking about either a PR110 or an R312 in the long version, or maybe a Vanhool that looks smaller to me (8 meters?)... Someone showed me an S45 for €2,300 but it was somewhat dismantled, but apparently the engine works well (and the gearbox too), but isn't a front-mounted engine a handicap? (otherwise you could find SC10s by the dozen, so cheap, and they have at least 3 doors)... and regarding this 'drilling' - which models does that concern exactly? An R312 I saw has one door at the front, one in the middle and one right at the back of the bus (near the engine hatch), is that enough? Each door has 2 panels that fold down pneumatically, and there's an emergency button on each of the doors.

For now I only have a category B license, if I want to keep only a few seats and transport some gear, and especially drive on Sundays, what would you recommend????

Thanks for your replies, anyway I think I'll learn a lot at the meetup if I can make it...

Example of SC10 (it's not what was offered to me but it looks somewhat similar):

http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/renault.sc10du24.04.86.htm http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/renaultsc10.htm

And then there's the Heuliez I saw (broken down, dead battery and apparently broken gearbox, no headlights but it looks like Peugeot 604s??? Decommissioned by the transport company because it was tagged, does that excuse sound realistic???) http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/heuliez%20gx107de1991.htm

Hey everyone, I think I spotted the Sputnik bus for sale http://annonces.campusanuncios.com/Offresachetervendre-France-1-1.html I find it a bit pricey—it's still just an old bus.

😎

Welcome to the forum. The problem with FR1s is that there's no flat floor. In the middle of the seats there's a depression for people to walk through. For a conversion, that's problematic. You'd be better off looking at Volvo B10M or Vanhool instead. If your conversion can work with a two-level floor, the FR1 is fine. It's a solid bus with straightforward mechanics, very widely available so well-known, and spare parts are easy to find. Think mostly about your interior layout and choose your bus based on that. Happy hunting!

Hello. Watch out for city buses!!! These are low-floor vehicles, so they're designed for frequent stops and starts. The GX 107 from Heuliez with a Renault engine is a nice bus that's a pleasure to drive and really smooth. I drove one for 5 and a half years, so I know what I'm talking about. As for fuel consumption, I have no clue since it was the boss who filled it up. It's a bus that, depending on the engine's condition, tops out at about 80 km/h when cruising smoothly on flat ground, but as soon as there's a hill, it immediately drops to 40 or 50. I'm telling you again, it's a city bus—there are only 3 automatic gears. These things aren't built for highway driving. Cheers.

Hi Gasmobil and thanks for your reply! So if I understood correctly, you're recommending an S45? I'm not sure if having the engine up front is a problem or not... neither GX107 nor PR100 nor R312 presumably?

I know they use lots of Vanhools in Monaco, some have a straight front, others have a slanted one, they look faster... I still don't know if I'll be doing much driving, but if on the motorway it only does 50 km/h on the A7 or in the Adrets in the 83... that's tough!!!

For the conversion though, I think it'll just be removing the extra seats, putting a partition between the last seats and a mobile mattress - stored up high with bungee cords... if I'm working there'll be a toilet somewhere anyway! Actually I need a very limited budget, like a used car! And also be able to lock my doors!

Do you think these 'contraptions' could work?

http://www.teamnegoce.com/Photos/camping%20car/cyberbus/fichecyberbus.htm http://www.teamnegoce.com/Photos/CarsBus/Cat/extS53/ficheextS53.htm

Old, clearly sturdy, already approved! Relatively low roof, the S53 probably more expensive (because I assume the SC10 is 'unsellable' given its setup!) but there's paintwork to change and probably need to get a Category C license given they're under 19 tons...

Otherwise given what I'm looking for (with a very simple conversion plan), what's the best type of approval, is drilling/adding a door opening mandatory, are Vanhools a good compromise (I haven't found a single one)... I read by chance that you attached importance to having the engine in the center, but the one in the Vanhools I'm talking about is located behind the driver's seat, under some passenger seats.

For the Heuliez, the one I saw is quite simple: behind the driver's seat 3 benches with 2 seats each, and on the other side 2 seats facing each other, then the posts for the central door (electric). The one at the back, like the one at the front, is also electric. I was thinking of putting a partition behind the seats, just before the door, to have 2 exits in case of fire. The possibility of fitting a moped doesn't bother me either. As for the mattress, if I'm driving I'm not sleeping in it, and if my girlfriend comes it's unlikely I'll be anywhere else, given that she also travels a lot (she's a musician...)

The R312 I saw has the same seat configuration, but I don't like it in terms of how it drives, from what I could see, the suspension is constantly being adjusted with hissing sounds, and too boxy... the engine gives off too much heat especially in summer!

But what about a Traceur, which looks like the R312, would that be a good choice? TAM (in the 06) apparently would be throwing lots out right now. And it has storage compartments so probably a long chassis...

The S45 I saw has a simple driving position compared to the others, only one electric door at the front, but narrow (small panes) plus a manual door at the back. The floor at the seat level is raised about 15 cm like an SC10 and they look really easy to remove. Gearbox like a 4L or old R5, apparently 6 speeds, offered at 15,000 F (€2,300) as-is with spare headlights. The grille is black, that must be an S45R. Possibility of putting locks on the doors, is that possible? It's been parked in the vegetation for 2-3 years (judging by the cobwebs).

Follow-up question, a bus looking like a bus, I imagine they can park where it's forbidden for normal camper vans, or do I have to count on the cops being mistaken, and also, can you park a bus at a bus stop (the areas with yellow triangles)?

Thanks again!

😉 If it's just for sleeping and eating, I'd recommend a good old Merc like a 508D—rock-solid. Fewer problems getting around.

Hi,

You're talking about this model:

http://site.voila.fr/code_phare/508D.htm

Yeah, I know about it—a friend of mine has one, and it's always breaking down... The thing I'm counting on with a Man engine is that (hopefully!) it never really breaks down, because I don't know much about mechanics... And it's too dark—buses have plenty of light coming in, even with filters stuck on. Plus finding one in good condition isn't easy.

But some friends have gone with this solution using other vehicles—Master, Unic, Trafic, Daily—basically bigger rigs but under 3.5 tons. Or even classic old campervans, like a Trafic up front or a Citroën with a 'turtle' shell in the back. Bright, nice, but then they're breaking down every other day—they're always scared to take the highway with them, and they're fuel-thirsty... the Trafic 'turtle' does nearly 20 liters... and in case of a crash, it's a total write-off.

Anyway, I'm not in a hurry right now—I'm just waiting to see which solution I'll go with.

Thanks for your answer !

I'm not a fan of the central engine, but for my setup, I need storage at the back. Few buses offer that. On a tight budget, I'd recommend one of the latest S53s available at: http://www.gaby-chariots.com/frame.htm They're the buses that consume the least—17 to 20 L/100 KM. For info, bus lanes in cities are reserved for urban public transport buses. Other buses are tolerated, though that depends on the city. As for parking, it all depends on what's on your registration card after certification. VanHool doesn't allow any modifications, not even welding or drilling on the structure. As for hoping the "cops" make a mistake, don't count on it—I'm a police officer, I rarely mess up, and besides, if there's one thing that really gets to me it's being taken for a fool. Depending on the circumstances, I tend to be cooler with a guy who admits his mistake than someone making up excuses. For the question about the driver's-side door, read the first pages of the forum—your answer is there and much more. For your budget, if you're too tight you're going to buy a wreck that'll bug you all the time. Follow mrkon's advice, get a Merc, they're not all junkers, you gotta pay for it and maintain your gear, there's no secret. Your acquaintances probably went cheap. Your call. @+

Hi Gasmobil, maintenance is really my weak point, that's why I'm looking for something really solid!

I wasn't trying to fool the cops after the fact, but to deter things beforehand... Where I'm from, camping vans are completely BANNED, that's why I was talking about parking, a bus should attract less attention, besides I'm not going to run red lights with it... (though I've got to say, in Nice they don't hold back!).

Can you easily drill the S53 for a door...? Is the cost really €3,000 all-in? Who can do it to code? Can Irisbus advise me even for a Saviem? I also saw this VOLVO B 10M : http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/volvolb10m.htm It already has a driver's door! But it's tall... Does it consume a lot of fuel? Is it reliable?

Otherwise I'll go with a Merc, oh well, otherwise I don't know what "ravent" are, so I wouldn't have bought one anyway. 508 or 409...

As for my friends' campers, yeah they went for the cheapest option, one spent €4,000, the other €5,000 (for the Trafic setup) and that was still the cheapest! That kind of Citroën must be 30 years old... Otherwise, the guy who has a basic Master with a bed right on the floor never has any problems except for bodywork and damage reports! His rig has over 200,000 km and no issues. It's bare metal, so he really just sleeps in it; the rest of the time he's at his friends' places. Most of the crew still has just a regular car though... The nice thing about the Master is that it's easier to park than a car-and-caravan combo.

Shorter with pre-existing bodywork, there's this: RENAULT MASTER 2, 5 L D ; RENAULT JN1E124 CARRIER ; MERCEDES 409 D 37 (~€7,800!) http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/renaultmasterhandi.htm http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/carrier.renaultjn1e24.htm http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/mercedes.409d.de09.84.htm If it's just a matter of removing the seats—whether it's the Merc or the Renaults—that should be easier? And if the Renault has 9 seats, does it accept a Category B license or do I still need to downclass it, and if so to a normal vehicle (under 3.5 tons) or necessarily to Commercial?

Well, I'll figure it out... or the 2 I've linked are worth it financially or I'll give up on a bus, too much hassle... Thanks for the advice!!

Hey there...

A bus conversion is a real project, like converting a barge, for example.

What I mean is that nothing is simple:

A bus is a big toy that you need to know how to handle without getting tired of it. There are maintenance constraints you don't have with a regular car (annual inspection with a brake bench test to make sure you avoid a failed re-test, air circuit checks, etc...), constraints in your choice of vehicle (forget city buses, self-supporting bodies, bellows doors, etc...). The only solid bases are chassis vehicles, well-powered, with standard or louvered doors and whose manufacturer is still around (forget IRISBUS for a Saviem that left a group factory—Vénissieux for the S45/53, which has been closed since!—before it was even called IRISBUS. Today, IRISBUS is Iveco! Renault sold them its stake in the whole mess, so imagine how much they care about a 20 or 30-year-old Saviem or Renault!).

Don't start with a bus that was "abandoned" by a transport company! You risk having major repairs to do on a bus that hasn't been driven in a long time (they say a heavy vehicle that hasn't run for 3 months has to go through the mechanics shop before hitting the road—the brake shoes might've frozen, the air and hydraulic circuits, without pressure, might have leaks, the tires might have flat spots from sitting with 12 tons of empty weight on them, etc...).

As for the conversion itself, whatever you do, your bus won't be a bus anymore once you remove the first seat, and you'll have to go through the legal approval process (DRIRE) as a must.

It's a real project that few people tackle. A few professionals take it on, and I do mean "a few"....

A cheap bus doesn't exist! If you pay €3,000 for one (that's mine and it's exceptional—I explained why earlier in the thread), you'll definitely have additional costs. For mine, €1,500 for tires and I paid with a 40% discount and got free installation (thanks to Luc, my buddy who runs a tire shop!), €1,100 in mechanical repairs (sway bar bushings, pinion seal, filters, a hose acting up, a small air leak on a suspension valve, plus a few odds and ends).

So before I even started the conversion, the bus had cost me €5,600! And that's a great deal for the price and condition!

Oh, I forgot the delivery, which didn't cost me the driver's labor, but still €400...

So a decent bus runs you, or comes out to, a minimum of €6,000 to €7,000... I'm not talking about a pretty bus, I'm talking about a bus that runs and passes inspection without breaking a sweat!

So a Van Hool (T 815 for example) costs €10,000! If it goes for less, it's because there will be work needed... or the seller likes losing money.... For an FR1 it's €12,000 to €15,000.

And then there's the conversion (so, the "start" of the headaches!), compliance with the regulations, getting the nice engineer from the inspection authority to understand, making choices between 12V, 24V, or 220V power, the level of autonomy (and thus the partitioned tanks and their positioning...), the windows (to cover or not to cover...), the load retention partition if needed, seating, and I could go on...

There's not one person who managed to do it in less than 8 months....

So, that's a summary. But I'll say it again: it's a real project that can't be done quickly, can't be done without a budget, and can't be done on a shoestring....

Look at the date when I opened this discussion thread....

There are buses that are converted but don't pass inspection, or abandoned halfway through, and it's just money wasted.

I took it on, but I was running a company in exhibition and trade show work, so for the interior conversion I have the skills in carpentry, electrical work (my base trade), and plumbing. And yet it's been a mess! There's not one person who got their registration without headaches—or they're just forgetting the struggles....

As for vehicles, I've had my licenses for a while (so I know "a bit" about the world of heavy vehicles), and I'm at over forty registrations (so that many vehicles, including 2 American cars, a VW Beetle, a Triumph Spitfire, a Simca Chambord... and the experience of all the headaches that come with it!). I remember, among other things, the sheet metal worker who redid the fender of an early-model Dauphine Ondine, the inspection officer who didn't want me to cover up but to remove the third brake light (what do I do with the hole?) on a Pontiac Firebird when the law requiring it (the third brake light!) had just passed and we were waiting for the enforcement decree, hunting down rod bearings for the Simca Chambord's V8 and installing rally Samba rod bearings in their place (thanks Riquet!), etc...

Look, I'm not trying to demoralize anyone. Several have made it to the finish line... thankfully!

But it's going to become my nickname if I keep saying "you can't just do anything".....

You have to take your time with projects like this... right, gasmobil for example (who's itching to get started!).

Alright, kisses to all, and as jchépluki said: with a brave heart, nothing is impossible....

Another person said: we redid all the calculations—it seems impossible. We just have to try!

PATRICK26

Hey, I'd really like some advice. Over the July 14th weekend, some jerks broke into my bus and smashed a window. I found the glass completely shattered. I swear I was so mad... Now I've found a used window because a new one would've cost me 300 euros!!! Now the thing is, I need to install it and I don't know how to do it. The bus is an S 53. If you could give me some advice on how to install it, that'd be great. Thanks in advance!

Hi!

I'd like to know the floor and height dimensions of an s53. Can someone help me?

Have a good day

Djeck49

S53 R: 2, 25 x 11, 40 x 3, 10.

(marked on the plate I have 2.25 but in reality there's 2.36m in interior width so plan for 2.45 exterior)

hoping this has been helpful

Great, and thanks. Is 3.10 m the height from ground level or from the terrain?

well it's the height you need to fit into a warehouse...but when you're working inside it, you don't need a stepladder, I can guarantee that...a rig is 3.42m if anyone wants to know. on the other hand, remember to add the height of any roof rack or solar panels you might have, basically all your equipment...

but in France the maximum height is 4.10m and bridges with less than 4.50m clearance are marked with a sign (but I'm not completely sure about those exact limits)

Hey Patrick26 and thanks for your replies – I think I can definitely say that bus conversion is not for me! I'd rather give up...

Based on your detailed explanation, even if I bought one already converted, if it doesn't get driven for a few months there'll be serious problems... so I'm ruling out the S53 and SC10 that have already been reworked and rebodied with new paperwork...

That leaves me with just the Master or the Merco 503... it's crazy how that narrows things down! I mean, reading some posts I was thinking "actually, it doesn't seem that complicated after all!" but your post really puts things in perspective: you definitely know your stuff way better than I do in these areas...

Good luck to those who want to keep going!

If you want to start with a light vehicle, see if you can find a Master with a refurbished moving-van body on a flat-floor chassis. The bodywork rusts easily (the plans are known to all body shops, and it's just as reliable as an old Mercedes that's overrated just because it's called a Mercedes!

Check out this kind of vehicle, maybe with a different base?

http://cgi.ebay.fr/master-T-35-D-caisse-demenagement_W0QQitemZ260010756361QQihZ016QQcategoryZ79054QQcmdZViewItem

PATRICK26

OK, thanks! Things to add: windows all around + 1 side door. It'll need a B license and 3.5 tons declared, plus a decent GVWR, I'd say. Plus it's nice and square—I'm wondering if I shouldn't add a fixed bed too (if I can get one!!!)... but can't weld it (it's aluminum).

I'd spotted another bus: http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/renaultmasterhandi.htm but if I can avoid the DRIRE red tape, I think I'll pass on that one. From the looks of it, it'd probably be classified as private passenger transport anyway...

For someone inexperienced like me, I reckon this is the best choice. Hope it's a 2.5L diesel. And since it's smaller than a truck, I know a mate who can sort out the mechanical stuff and handle the maintenance!

Cheers! !

Good decision, I think. I wasn't trying to discourage you—patrick 26 was more radical than me, and he was right. Skip the headaches and long procedures. A moving van box is your best bet, I reckon; it's a cubic box with square corners, so it's easy to set up. Personally, I'd focus more on checking the box than the engine (though don't ignore the engine either), because an engine can be repaired or replaced, but if the chassis is all eaten away by rust... you can't just replace the box, or you'd have to replace the whole vehicle. Good luck!