Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome (page 36 of 161)

Hi everyone!

I'm here to share my experience: I'm lucky enough to live on a barge in a corner of paradise. But honestly, it has nothing to do with luck – it took a lot of determination and work. It's been going on for over ten years and the work is still far from finished! And I have a stable job and decent income, thankfully, to carry the project through. On the Aquaforum website, novices often show up who don't realize what problems await them. Before the Internet, us eccentric dreamers (and I say this fondly – I was one of them and still am in other areas) could easily crash and burn, ruined and/or desperate. Today there are "those who know" who sympathetically warn and inform the would-be converters – it's wonderful to have their knowledge shared by these kind forum posters. The authorities should thank them for it, and on this forum Patrick, gasmobil, GX407, and the others...

But for those deprived of their dream – don't forget it!

By successfully completing a more modest and accessible project (like a simple van), you also build yourself up. And then, if you haven't gotten too old in your head, you can move on to something bigger, more serious, or more crazy!

Thanks!!😉

Hey, malindodouce!

How are you?

I remember a discussion between us about meeting up... that still hasn't happened because of our schedules.

Did you see that I started a meet-up project? Donzère isn't far!

Maybe we'll manage to cross paths one day.

In any case, you're right, it's better to tackle a project suited to your abilities (and your means!) than to embark on an adventure you might not see through to the end.

Without being extreme, I wanted to be thoughtful. I was worried I might not be properly understood, but I'm happy to see that I was.... it makes me happy!

For now, for the meet-up on 16/17 September, 1 bus (mine), 3 cars, 7 adults and 5 kids.... Raise the stakes and take the opportunity so that "those who want to know" can ask all their questions face-to-face with "those who know" (quite a grand word!... let's say rather "those who know a bit more"), and see clear documents....

The idea is to be able to exchange tips and tricks more and better.

Alright, see you all and mark your calendars!

PATRICK26

HI FOLKS😉 here I am back from vacation😎 real ones for 9 years (more than 3 consecutive days) AND WITH THE "AutoCARàVannes" if you please !!!

So I see that since my silly request in my last post just 1H before we left, there's been tons of "keyboard tapping" and obviously our great guru jumped at the opportunity to plan everything🙂 and plus there's been interest😉 actually it was JUST FOR LAUGHS that I said that, but now, I'm into it! except I can't reply because I have 3 contract requests for Saturday and given the drive 😎 I've already checked the mileage (630km so about 10.5-11 hours plus breaks) I'll come alone (no family) In any case, if this happens, it'll be the first meet-up of this type in France.😛

Otherwise, if my experience interests you here it is, otherwise SKIP the rest:

So actually I wanted to use my "bus" as a car-based camper van (with the bikes in there too) I did part of the Brittany coast (North) from St Brieuc to Lannion via Perros-Guirec (town center at noon) DO NOT DO unless you know your bus to the millimeter and besides you annoy everyone and I only have an 8.63m one! I don't recommend Les Rosaires (very nice beach indicated from the St Brieuc dual carriageway) but it's a dead end and a no entry sign for vehicles over 3.5T and coaches only - and when you arrive there's no advance warning, plus the Municipal Police kick you out of the only "coach" parking - 4 spaces marked but three times the surface available plus empty all day - and no prohibition sign for the free surface (taken up by cars) They admit it's poorly marked but... anyway we managed to negotiate the night anyway.

I recommend Le Palus-Plage equipped with camper van facilities including an enclosed play area for kids, beach, pebbles, walking path, small boat launch, equipped with 3 coach spaces (empty) and a big car park where you can turn around if you arrive in the morning. BUT be careful it's a dead end and it drops steeply --> so you have to climb in 2nd gear with old fools in oversized car-based camper vans who don't know passing priorities (especially with HGVs)

Otherwise you can also sleep in the (paid daily) parking lot at Pointe de l'Arcouest (ferry terminal for the Îles de Bréhat) BUT YOU HAVE TO clear out by 8am (unless you want to visit the islands)

I went through PAIMPOL via the port and found where to park near a camper van supply spot but I doubt it's possible with an 11m one

Actually Brittany is full of small roads, I wanted to do the coast and I DID IT but at the cost of fatigue, small hassles (unmarked dead ends) (roads not really made for an HGV of 8.63m) and the traditional Breton stubbornness PLUS hello fuel consumption (24.85l/100km) it goes up and down all the time, you're at full throttle in 2nd, 3rd then the TELMA at 1, 2, 3 stages constantly (I'm exaggerating a bit...)

IN CONCLUSION:

Plan your route better than I did Bikes are MANDATORY (or a car), I ran into a Mega coach camper van with its car in tow (it's for sale on the net (white with angled cut side windows) it was parked in an industrial zone😕 If you're over 9m avoid the small coastal roads. Be diplomatic and smile. Avoid parking your exhaust too close to others (a bus has to warm up, plus mine is hybrid (air suspension at the back, so it needs to lift, pressurize the air tanks) and an HGV like mine SMOKES!🏴‍☠️ and when cold, it FILLS EVERYTHING WITH SMOKE🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️ and it stinks Drive at night - well I love it and the road is yours. Avoid isolated spots - we cleared out quick at 4am after a detailed inspection of the bus by some guy in a van who positioned himself a bit further away and made 3 phone calls then waited in his van, I didn't take chances.

My bus I designed for work, not really for vacations, so the water tank isn't great, too much interior space (which was used by the kids one day out of two since we only had water 1 day out of 2) So seeing that work-wise it's no longer justified, the girls want to take their cars (faster) no summer tours this year and things are looking rough next year, I'm wondering if I shouldn't cut the back off to fit a Willys in there (seeing as I have authorization from Heuliez) but it bothers me, seeing as I already have a rear door of the tilting wing type (photos as soon as I get around to it) and considering that, it's a rare model. Otherwise I sell it and buy a shorter Heuliez (yes I quite like administrative ease I'm a bit lazy😉) but if I do that, my GX47 will be missed😕.

Anyway, I've lost count of the number of people I've run into who thought the thing was awesome. (in the land of camper vans what a satisfaction🙂 it gives off a certain appeal.

There you have it fresh off the press, back from vacation. GX47

Hey buddy😉

Well, I'm late to the party, but I still want to share my two cents—you got good advice. 😛 Personally, I outfitted a Heuliez GX47 for shows (hence my handle) because it has a rear door that opens like a hatch—perfect for gear. If I sell it in 3 years and you've got the budget to maintain it, I'll let you know. Truth is, a heavy-duty vehicle costs less upfront than a light vehicle BUT repair costs are way higher, insurance too, fuel costs too. I know my way around engines—I've restored tons of vehicles—but heavy trucks, I can't do; I'm not equipped for it. Though a 303 engine can be pulled by one person PLUS a pallet jack 😏—my GX's engine weighs 450kg.

Plus, if you want to upgrade your vehicle with AFDAS funding, you need at least 2 years in freelance work.

Originally I wanted a 609 or 709. Found a 711 online from a dealer, drove 1000 km and left empty-handed. It was pitted everywhere (not visible in the pics), damaged on the left from a load that supposedly fell inside (no photos sent from that angle), had 171,000 km on it, and the driver's seat was ground down to bare metal (even the foam) and so was the passenger bench edge. The thing is, Mercs are overpriced.

What I really had my eye on was the long 508 as a heavy-duty, but they're all beat up, and they weigh 2.5 to 2.9 tons empty! 😠 Plus they rust at an insane rate...

At one point I also wanted to pick up a moving van and convert it to an extended cab plus a bunk. Problem—no side door. Installation cost: 3,000 euros, because you have to go through a bodyshop (safety regulations require a specific door type), so check with DRIRE before you buy (ask about the motorhome file) and ask the engineer whether an emergency exit window might do.

I ended up with a Master Series 2, 2.8L DTi H2L3—the best. But steer clear of Series 1s, especially pre-'92 ones; the cylinder heads don't last 60,000 km. Same issue with Iveco light vehicles (they use the same engine). Boxers have solid engines, but the windscreen cracks lengthwise quickly (chassis flex problem). Check out the "Blue Beards"—they're sturdy, insulated polyester—but ask about the side door setup. For the Master "Gaby-chariots," the upside is seating capacity; you can register it as a 9-seater with DRIRE while keeping the original seats, but you'll probably need a different engine.

Alright, gotta crash—work coming up soon. GX47

Hi Gasmobil and GX47!

Actually, I think Patrick26 did the right thing being upfront—better a firm piece of advice than a HUGE disappointment later... I was actually waiting for someone to be honest! And I got discouraged... well, not too much in the end! But the Transeurope will keep falling apart (the S45 is a 'Transeurope'!) and everything else, I think I'll skip even the fitted S53s and SC10s, otherwise I'm looking at big problems if it stays parked the way I'm planning. Some contracts come with housing provided, so there's no need to move the truck for all that time...

Anyway, what does a GX47 look like? I know the GX107 but that's a city bus (nice-looking one too)... 303 engine—those Mercedes from my scout days? It's funny they're dumping one too but what a state! (going for €6,000!)

I don't know the 609 709 711 508 Barbe Bleus either... etc... Mercedes?

Bad news about the Master box truck; the guy backed out (we can't bid anymore!). But I'll find something else; I'll call Gaby next week to check with him!

Have a great weekend!

AND A HAPPY VACATIONER!

for the 16/17 date, I'm just reminding you it's just a suggestion!

for now, I'm at the number of participants mentioned above.

among those participants, aside from 2 who are on their way back at that date, for the others there wouldn't be a problem with another date (at first glance). I'm also in contact with 2 or 3 people who can't make the 16/17 weekend. the date might not be well chosen...

gx47, gasmobil, etc., submit your availability dates for September...

would the following weekend be easier?

we'll get in touch via private messages to exchange phone numbers and talk about it.

I have a buddy who has a bus converted into a computer classroom (for lessons with students in schools that aren't equipped) who could join us. it'd be fun to connect live during our weekend discussions and transcribe them as we go...

PATRICK26

Check out these links and you'll find ads for equipped vans converted to camper vans:

http://merco.aceboard.fr/...camping+car&go=1 http://www.annonces-camping-car.com/cgi-bin/d.cgi?sid=aeb0326079d7e450&M=2

Also, I found two threads about buses converted to camper vans with lots of photos:

http://merco.aceboard.fr/...-6603-0-roulotte.htm (two different buses) http://merco.aceboard.fr/...e-transformation.htm

Thanks for your contribution! Honestly, I'd already read those latest posts—maybe that's even how I found this forum in the first place, I can't quite remember.

I'm searching for a motorhome, but in my neighboring regions they're asking ridiculously high prices. I'll search more thoroughly tomorrow :) .

😏😏😏 Finally got it, guys! I managed to set my GX as my avatar. To be honest, aside from not having ADSL (welcome to the countryside), I was dealing with a photo that was too large. All that's left is to get the attached photos sorted...😏

Last night I was wondering: how's the sound insulation on your buses? (especially for sleeping at night) (I'm guessing it shouldn't be worse than a caravan or RV, actually, depending on the insulation quality)

and what about PTAC and PTRA on your registration documents?

Well, right now I'm not really insulated so I can't say it's great, but my Master is completely insulated on all 6 sides... well no, not the windshield and soundwise, it's the same then...? (tri-iso-super9 insulation)

For the weight specs, my GX47 has a PTAC of: 9T750 (9T500+250kg of TELMA) PTRA: 13T250 (same, 13T+250kg of TELMA) normally a GX with mixed air/mechanical suspension comes in at 10T250

as has already been mentioned, if there's no PTRA listed (and unfortunately that's often the case for pre-1990 buses) no towing is possible, not even a 300kg load or your grandpa's bike trailer 😕

if it's your military license restriction that worries you, normally you're capped at 12T, or even 19T for some, so if a bus appeals to you, go for a 9m one (DRIRE doesn't lower the weight limits anymore)

We just saw your message today. We'd taken it off the market for a summer trip, but it's available again now because it's too big for us ( now that the kids are grown up ...). Please send us your email for the photos. Talk soon!

I've been following your discussions for a few months and I'm thinking about buying a bus. In my case, I think it's preferable to get one with registration papers because that means fewer risks. Exterior painting and interior fittings don't scare me too much, because I've already renovated quite a few vintage vehicles. However, I have no ideas for a practical layout, arrangement and sizing of the compartments. I've checked out a lot of websites but haven't found what I'm looking for. If you had tips and photos, that would be really nice of you. fatipic@cegetel.net Oh by the way, I forgot the basics: a Scania 53 or Renault PR. One more question: why do you talk about 30-seaters so rarely, and what do they really consume? Do you have photos of the rear opening, the so-called garage, because I haven't seen one yet?

PS: I'm a few km from Toulouse, and if someone was from the area, maybe we could meet up to exchange ideas and knowledge.

Warmly, Fab

Here are 2 photos of my bus, with the back open in the garage.

For the meet-up, come join us for the one in September in Valence!

PATRICK26

Thanks for your reply, I'll know better once I retake my license (lost it)... Wasn't the Telma original equipment? why was it added? How long is your bus? it seems a bit shorter than standard TCP buses. Nice ramp at the back, are you going to keep it or expand it?



Anyone else want to share their GVWR (and GTWR if applicable) along with their bus's exterior dimensions? Do you have ABS on your buses???

How'd you manage to get a photo of my coach and post it online?

It's exactly 8.63m.

No, I haven't made a decision yet. I'd prefer to find another one to convert, but I won't find one with so few kilometers (230,000km) and so much refurbishment—new brakes, new air tanks, new air suspension, tie-rods, clutch drums redone, etc. (the government was subsidizing repairs and maintenance)😎 Well, the sills aren't great, but that's nothing—the tires can still do tens of thousands more kilometers.

The Telma is mandatory on coaches—it came with it but wasn't originally fitted, because it's a Renault truck base (JNIE24) like the S130 and Midliner that came later. I have the installation sheet provided by Renault. After that, the whole thing went to Heuliez (chassis/engine) to be fitted out as a coach—that's why the chassis is from 1985 (type approval) and the finished coach has a red bar for approval in 1986 on the registration—the first registration date is 1986.

What explains the extra 250kg in PTAC and PTRA is the law—the Telma's weight is added to encourage buyers to invest in this safety feature.

If you add up the maximum weight authorized by the manufacturer front axle + rear axle, you get 9.5 tons on my coach, and I'm legally overloaded by 250kg since the DRIRE approved it at 9.75 tons😏

My Telma was changed in '95 or 2003?—I don't remember anymore, I need to check the maintenance log.

In any case, it's an ESSENTIAL accessory for heavy vehicle driving—I use it constantly and barely use the brakes. If I remember right, I think Telmas are only mandatory on heavy vehicles from 12 tons PTAC onwards. GX47

CUNNI, I'd also like to know how you managed to put GX47's avatar (or another photo) in a post? I'm not all thumbs, but I haven't figured it out yet.

In any case, GX47, your enlarged photo really shows your dog much better!

Maybe it's because I use OPERA as my browser and I can't switch to advanced editor mode.

Anyway, CUNNI, you've got to explain it.... we're happy to share info about buses, but everyone should share their knowledge....

As for bus specifications:

Mine is 11.95m long, 2.50m wide exterior and 2.36m interior width, 3.08m tall exterior and 2.04m interior height with a flat floor (except for wheel housings).

As for weight, 10,800 kg empty, 17,500 kg PTAC and 21,000 kg PTRA (which means I can tow 3,500 kg). That's what's on the registration papers before modifications.

Unfortunately, I don't have ABS (so 90 km/h and not 100 for a bus, but I don't care because once I convert it to a truck it'll be 90 anyway!)

As for Telmas (or electric retarders), they're indeed mandatory in public transport, as GX47 told you. On the other hand, a truck can get by with an exhaust brake. I'm saying this for those who want to import and pass the roadworthiness test after modifications. If they find an exotic bus without a Telma but with an exhaust brake, it'll be fine for VASP or RV homologation, because those are "truck" homologations if under 9 seats.

(The Telma is the lever under the steering wheel, the exhaust brake is the mushroom button to the left of the clutch—though on newer trucks it can also be a lever under the steering wheel (but with only 1 or 2 positions), or an automatic system that engages as soon as you press the brake pedal and before it actually brakes). Some heavy vehicles have both, which is my bus's case, and it's fantastic for smooth handling because the Telma is perfect for approach control (roundabouts, traffic lights, turns, etc.), and the exhaust brake is great for long downhills and longer approach distances, etc. A Telma heats up to glowing if used too long without enough ventilation, but it works even at low engine RPM. With an exhaust brake, no overheating issues, but you need to be above 1,500 RPM for it to work and above 2,000 RPM for it to brake effectively.

The important thing is to have one and use it. Indeed, for example, if you're going down a hill at 800 RPM (without engine braking, I know it's crazy, but it's just an example!), and you hit the brakes, at a rate of 1.5 liters expelled with each brake release (that "pshhhhh!" sound), and a 20-liter air tank, that's 10 brake applications (after which there's not enough pressure in the tank because the compressor didn't recharge fast enough) before the driver says "this damn truck won't brake anymore!" and slams on the emergency brake (if they remember!) which acts as the backup brake. And there, "boom!" Locked wheels—time to replace the mirror (because it'll be under the rolled-over truck!), or off a cliff (too bad for the driver, rest in peace...), or worse, Mister Anybody's car coming the other way and a kid crying for their mom, dad, brother, and sister (because in those situations there's always a survivor). An emergency brake should be pulled gently, but in a panic....

As for weight, GX47 is right—the Telma's weight doesn't count toward the tonnage limits. It's added to the empty weight and increases the loaded weight accordingly, because it's a safety component that weighs heavy (200 to 400 kg!) and they didn't want to penalize people for installing one.

But all that's covered when you get your license. It's unfortunate that the military is so negligent with the heavy-truck training it provides (a drive around the block, 300 km on the highway in convoy, and boom, license in your pocket. Unacceptable!). Especially when you know that FIMO/FCOS was introduced to fill the gap left by inadequate driver training, based on an analysis of accident files from REAGIR (prefectural commissions for major heavy-truck accidents). Yep, back then, 1 driver in 7 had a military license and didn't even know there was an emergency brake (or a retarder or an aligner brake for semis!).

I had a buddy with a military license. A few years back, he was laid off. He walks into a temp agency, and because he had a heavy-truck license, they offer him a job driving a truck supplying an asphalt paver (the machine that spreads the asphalt). The first night, he couldn't stop the truck because he didn't know you had to pull the choke. The next day, he blocked the job site because he couldn't manage to back up 1 km on the highway emergency lane with asphalt in his trailer. The third day, he lost the trailer and left it on the raised stands because he hadn't pushed the kingpin in far enough and the pin wasn't locked! That ended his trucking career! When we talked about it, he told me: "Yeah, but I got my license in a command car!"....

All this to say I've nothing against military licenses, but when I hear a soldier grumble about FIMO/FCOS.... Avoiding the cost of a license is fine. Refusing training when you don't know what you're doing, ....

CUNNI, I really don't want you to take what I just wrote personally. We don't know each other and THANKFULLY most people on this earth are sensible! It was just a rant about your questions, which I find very relevant when you have a military license. Unfortunately, others in your situation only ask them after an accident!

That's it for tonight.

All the best to everyone (and CUNNI, don't be bothered by what I just wrote, I'M REMINDING YOU THAT *I* DON'T KNOW HOW TO PUT A PHOTO IN A POST, AND I'M COUNTING ON YOU TO EXPLAIN TO GX47 AND ME HOW TO DO IT, JUST AS WELL AS WE'VE EXPLAINED THINGS. COME ON NOW..... (just kidding!) There are no dumb questions, silly questions, etc. The only silly questions are the ones you should have asked.... So let's go, that's what a forum is for!).

PATRICK26

Thanks Patrick for the 2 photos. It looks like you've adapted a door-window shade, blind-type, right? Is the lowering electric or manual? The angle doesn't let me see the details. Thanks to you. Fab.

Exactly!

adjustable aluminum blind with polyurethane foam insulation and 220V motorization.

bought on sale at Bricodepot for less than 350 euros!

I had also checked with FIT (who makes truck doors), but they were 1280 euros before tax and shipping....

If I were any good at blogging, I'd post online the best of the 400 photos I have of the bodywork and the plans!

The other solution would be to put the clearest ones in posts on this discussion topic... but we're still waiting on CUNNI! (humor!)

PATRICK26