Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome (page 39 of 161)

Oops, my bad!

Retreading heavy-duty tires is allowed!

But after X-raying the tire to check the condition of its casing, which is too expensive nowadays compared to a new tire...

Only certain specialized companies do it, and it's mainly for export.

Also, know that your old tires can be negotiated! A casing has value because tire manufacturers have them buffed (the rubber is resold for other uses) and the casing is reused and resold as new after retreading with new rubber!

Think about negotiating them when buying your new sneakers for your car!

However, for regrooving, you're right—it's allowed, only once, and by a professional. But for info, road hauliers mount them only on trailers because if they mount them on the tractor unit, they can lose up to 8 km/h due to the difference in circumference and the speed limiter. (Basically, the speedometer still shows 90 locked to the limiter, but the vehicle only goes at 82 km/h because the wheel is smaller!)

That's why many trailers have the same tire setup as the front wheels of tractor units (single wheels with wide tires), making trucks look like they have wide fronts (some Scania, Renault Magnum in certain setups). It's not possible to do this on a truck not designed for it, as wider tires require modifications to the front axle (ball joints, adjustments, steering). In this case, dual wheels are only mounted on the tractor unit's drive axle. For example (now that I know how to add a photo!), look how the front wheels almost stick out from the fenders!

For info, Bieron also negotiates used tires! (And there's a mountain of them sorted by size, wear level...).

As for prices, I’d give you wrong info because I bought them from a childhood buddy who’s the boss of a Vulco center, and he negotiated the price he sold them to me for directly with Dunlop, explaining that the bus was ours together, and made me promise at his supplier’s request not to share the price!

And I changed all 6! (Had to say, the 4 rear ones had been regrooved too deep, and you could see the cords! The 2 front ones, barely 40% worn, made two excellent spare wheels!)

That’s all I can say about tires...

PATRICK26

OK, thanks for all these replies.

For the S53, I repeat: 1,500 €, not 15,000 €. It's a 1984 S53, but regarding the tires, even where I bought it, they told me they provide the tires and take them back, but it's common practice. They told me these are used tires, most likely retreaded, and from what I understood, they've been used multiple times. It's a big transport company, so they don't mess around with safety, and I don't intend to either—I don't want to crash my bus into a kid or a house or anything else.

Are you sure about this info? (Otherwise, Patrick 26 would have already denied it.) But in any case, if garages refuse, well, that's normal—I won't bother looking.

New question: How much do S53 tires cost (balanced, mounted...)? And is there a risk of a "flat spot" if the bus stays parked and moves forward or backward 30 cm every two weeks...

See you later.

P.S. Just like I said (as a real pro, Patrick denied it while I was replying to the post—time for people to come ask me tons of questions at work and for me to answer them), so this adds to my list of questions: Can you really retread them as much as you want? And how much does retreading cost...

Another S53, 7000 €, bodywork is fine but the ad doesn’t specify if it’s certified. Since it’s listed in the 2-seater category, maybe it’s only certified for 2 people???

http://www.annonces-camping-car.com/...p;ANN_Ref=6887#BLANK

Don’t bother with retreading or regrooving...

Find yourself some used tires...

For 10 to 15,000 km a year, good second-hand ones should last you a while.

As for flat spots on your tires, you won’t risk anything in two weeks—especially if they’re properly inflated. But a regular quarter-turn will help you avoid any issues.

PATRICK26

Hello,

I stumbled upon this forum while searching for how to convert an S53 into a motorhome. Great job on all these interesting posts. But after three hours of reading and posts from 2004, I have more questions than answers. I wrote to the DRIRE of Languedoc Roussillon, but in the meantime, has anyone put together a quick overview of today's regulations? (left door, seatbelts, etc...) I have C and D licenses, so I don't have too much of a problem, but I'm wondering whether I should apply for motorhome caravan bodywork certification, or if it would be better to start with a truck workshop registration and then motorhome caravan certification.

Thanks for everything, see you soon.

Alright, let's clarify things....

a motorhome meets very specific criteria: a table, benches, cooking facilities, onboard electrical power...

every heavy-duty vehicle has a classification type.

CAM, for truck TCP, for Passenger Transport etc.... and the one that interests us:

VASP (not VASM) means Vehicle with SPecific Fitout (and yes, it needs 4 letters!), and that's for all vehicles that fall outside the typical truck, semi-trailer or bus or coach...and a category (which can be written abbreviated or in full): NACL or NACELLE, for cab-over truck LEV or LEVAGE, for lifting/crane trucks, etc... and the ones that interest us:

the one to avoid, but which is easy to get, is NSPC, which stands for Not SPecified. It's the catch-all category! Everything that isn't specifically named in the classification ends up with this label. So if your motorhome has this type of classification, it means it's not officially recognized as a motorhome! if you follow the law, an NSPC isn't allowed to drive on Sundays because it's still a heavy vehicle assigned to "anything and everything," it's not a motorhome, or a breakdown truck, etc., which have different exemptions. you risk not having access to certain ferry companies or certain tunnels (the Fréjus and Mont Blanc for example) because it's a risk for them (it's written on the instruction panel placed before the heat detector at the entrance of the mentioned tunnels). Since the vehicle doesn't correspond to any recognized category, it might be equipped with uncertified accessories. If it looks like a motorhome and it's NSPC, is its gas installation certified? Some countries will also refuse you entry at their borders (some Eastern European countries notably).

and the ones you should have:

AUTOCARAVANE is the common term for motorhomes under 3.5 tons. it's the category that requires two front doors (including a driver's door), and some mining authority departments classified our buses in this category with tonnage waivers.

and best of all, HOME CAR, which is the category for a bus or truck over 3.5 tons converted into a motorhome (for us, that is!)

the problem is that HOME CAR wasn't included in France's official classification system! Other European countries had added this category at Austria's request, like Germany, England, etc., but not France!

so the mining authority classified us as AUTOCARAVANE if there was a driver's door, or NSPC if it didn't match the AUTOCARAVANE classification. Or they'd break our backs with details, and nobody understood anything anymore.

so more than a year ago, I took up my staff and went all the way to the ministry to get them to incorporate this category into the classification system. After 8 months of paperwork, France officially recognized this new category, and I published the HOME CAR category description in a post (around page 20, look for it!).

HOME CAR is the magic word! It goes everywhere, it can drive on Sundays, it can pass where freight transport and coaches are forbidden (I'm not talking about weight restrictions, but about signs showing a truck or bus without a small weight limit sign below them) like city centers, some parking lots, etc... the only restrictions you have to follow are those about dimensions (weight, height, width and length), that's it!

to be clear, I don't understand how a mining authority engineer can accept classifying a quasi-motorhome as NSPC, because that means he accepts that a vehicle can drive without complying with all the requirements of the category it should be in! (Why not a cab-over truck without its mandatory stabilizer legs as NSPC while we're at it! The principle is the same!).

know that a mining authority engineer isn't infallible and you'll always be liable in court!

I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of a VASP NSPC bus owner who converted it into a motorhome and had the bad luck of sinking a ferry because of an onboard gas bottle that caused an explosion with deaths... (I know, but it's for the example...).

let's not look like fools. let's do things properly: 1-choose a bus, 2-make plans that comply with NFS 56200, NFS 56201 regulations and the prescriptions required by the mining authority for the HOME CAR category. 3-do careful work on both the body and the interior 4-set up an appointment with the NFS compliance officer (Veritas or other) 5-go see the mining authority for individual type approval (RTI) 6-be able to drive, insure, sell, rent or enjoy a vehicle that is necessarily exceptional.

some will say it's too long to do things right, or too complicated!

I don't wish them any harm. Just that the mining authority engineer does his job properly and doesn't give them an NSPC as a shortcut (or through incompetence!). That would prevent seeing vehicles pass the mining authority without a heating system, and then end up later with an unapproved wood stove, or a 1000-liter unpartitioned water tank positioned any which way, or worse... (I remember a guy who called me for advice, and during the conversation, he tells me that on his NEOPLAN double-decker, he had cut "little iron bars" from the floor to install his shower in the rear cargo area—the one above the rear axles—to have more height, because he was tall and 1.75m of ceiling didn't work for him!.... This type of bus doesn't have a frame, it's a self-supporting body, and the little iron bars are part of the body and contribute to its rigidity!.... When I told him his bus was fit for the scrapyard and would never pass mining authority approval as HOME CAR, he told me he didn't care because it's a bus he'd bought as an NSPC, which he converted afterward, and he's leaving it like that!.... And he drives with it!)

because as GX47 says, anyone who takes me down with pirate junk, they'd better lay low and stay far away from me. I'm not mean, but in my view, apologies have never brought the dead back, and I've never accepted covering irresponsible driving behavior under the term "road accidents."

I may be harsh, but that's my opinion, and we're on a forum, right?....

I don't see the point of going to the mining authority to get VASP NSPC approval, then going back to get HOME CAR approval, except for the temptation to cross the white line (driving with a vehicle under construction, not properly certified).

for those who want to drive anything goes, there's nowhere for them here!.. but there, there's no social security, no hospitals, no schools, no supermarkets....

pick your side, friend.

attention, nothing personal against nahotchan, I'm bouncing off his question and speaking broadly, as usual.....

I also want to tell those who want to buy a pre-built bus to watch out! In case of problems, you'll be the first to be blamed. And then, to justify your good faith in front of cops or a judge....

PATRICK26

Hi,

Now that's what I call an answer! 🙂

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond so thoroughly.

I'm going to put together solid documentation, and if all goes well, I'll be on the road within a year.

All I need to do now is get inspired (not copy!) by what others have done, by finding layout diagrams.

I just looked at article 3.6.2.2.2—if we skip the driver's door, is the side window considered an emergency exit?

Big thanks to PATRICK30 Hi Hi Hi.

Hi, The DRIRE PDF doesn't show me the same section 3.6.2.2.2...... Can you clarify this for me? 3.6.2.2.2. : - An access door to the driver's cabin and an emergency exit located on the opposite side with an area of 2500 cm² with a minimum dimension of 450 mm or a living area with an area of 2500 cm² with a minimum dimension of 450 mm. Instead of your article which states: or an emergency exit on each side of the driver's position with an area of 2500 cm² with a minimum dimension of 450 mm. - and an access door to the living area, located on the right side or at the rear; - and a clear passage of 2500 cm² with a minimum width dimension of 450 mm between the front cabin and the living area; - and an emergency exit of 2500 cm² with a minimum dimension of 450 mm located on a face that does not have the access door to the living area.

The PDF the DRIRE gave you is for standard motorhomes!

Less than 12m² of habitable space and less than 3.5 tons... that's what they hand out by default, without knowing (?!?) that the HOME CAR standard exists.

At first glance, you'll find the HOME-CAR description in my earlier messages—print that out and go by it. For heavy-duty builds like ours, that's the document you need to follow, not the one they gave you. If the mines inspector gives you trouble, tell him it comes straight from the ministry via Mr. VIAL from the DRIRE's regional office in Lyon. (and if needed, I'll get you the covering letter from the mines engineer who handled this document—when the time comes)

You tell me 'patrick30', so I'm guessing you're also named Patrick and that you live in the Gard...

Which means we're not far from each other. I'm in Valence, Drôme.

a clarification:

a mining engineer is in no way a prescriber of regulations. at worst, an advisor, and even that's a stretch!

they're state certifiers.

you show up with something to get certified, the regulations applicable to your request, and... they check that those regulations are indeed the ones that apply, and check that your thing fits in the box. Period. Their role stops there!

if it worked otherwise, why would manufacturers have an approval department?

it's up to you to be firm!

it's like with taxes; you file your return, taking into account the exemptions and deductions you're entitled to, and you submit it to the tax office. the auditor verifies. at no point will their role be to advise you or calculate your taxes for you!

PATRICK26

OK, advice noted... but personally, I need to get my Class C license to drive my vehicle, but to convert it I'm forced to tow it with me, which means I can't transform it overnight, and I don't have all your equipment and network of friends. I have a driver who moves it for me from time to time... and the solution I found with the DRIRE is an NSPC conversion, then another one (back then it was motorhome, but now I'm thinking I'll talk to them about Homecar). Do you have the Homecar manual, or could you send it to me at francois1612@hotmail.com

it's a step to allow me to drive and tow it with me (I'd rather pass one more inspection than get a Class D license which I'll never need anywhere else).

so is it really a dead-end option? or not, considering I can re-register it afterwards (I'm entitled to 9 seats in VASP NSPC without seatbelts, which makes sense since in VASP motorhome category I have the same right... plus, my vehicle is TCP, but it's insured for Camping Car use only, and the insurer knows this perfectly well.

catch you later

Sorry, changing the subject 😛 Does anyone know the major differences between the s53, the s53R, and the s53RX? And which one is best for customization? Thanks in advance

Agree with you on driving with a class C license.....

but what about the vehicle inspection authority where you'll need to pass your technical inspection and they'll give you an S (security), because your vehicle is under renovation....

I'll explain: you take your bus for a technical inspection to be up to date for your VASP approval. the vehicle inspection authority checks a bus (at that moment you're still a bus), and there, 2 options:

1- it's a bus, it has the seats, all the windows, etc.... and you have your technical inspection. your vehicle inspection authority approval must be done within 6 months, or else your technical inspection will no longer be valid (bus = inspection every 6 months) and you find yourself in the following case.... 2- you've started the work and it's no longer a bus, because it has fewer than 9 seats, metal panels instead of windows, etc... but your vehicle registration is still "bus", and you get an "S" for "vehicle under transformation"! right to drive for one month before the vehicle inspection authority check!

a vehicle under transformation is not allowed to drive!

let's say you take option 2 (above) and do your VASP NSPC inspection. as soon as you've installed the gas and electricity, you'll need to pass before Veritas or another inspector for your compliance! or don't drive..... until you're a camper van.

to keep it simple, follow the procedure planned for the case that interests us (vehicle transformation):

you don't do any paperwork to pass your technical inspection and the vehicle inspection authority. you stay as a BUS, and you do all your work without moving it (except a few meters for the tires if you want!). you have Veritas or another inspector come for your interior compliance, and for your vehicle inspection authority check, you check with your usual heavy-duty mechanic who will pick it up, prepare it, and take it to the technical inspection center (he has the right as a professional to drive a "W garage" with a vehicle that's not up to date on justification of the technical inspection appointment), where it will come out with an "S" for "vehicle under transformation". and then, you ask anyone who has the TCP (commercial driver's permit) to take it (within 30 days because of the "S") to the inspection at HOME CAR. your commercial driver will bring it back because you'll receive your new papers in about 10 days.

and then, HAPPINESS! you can go anywhere with your class C license

simple, except if you want to cheat and drive with a vehicle under transformation!

and if it's to go to the bodywork shop or somewhere else for the work, ask him to come pick it up! that way, you don't even need insurance that covers driving (just storage) during the work period!

last option (which I put in place for myself), go see the local police in the area you're in, explain to them that you're well in contact with the vehicle inspection authority, that you have the heavy-duty license and not the TCP, and that you may need to move your bus which no longer has the bus configuration from one place to another in the municipality, to go to the mechanic or elsewhere. I was surprised by their understanding! I can drive around the municipality without risk of being stopped by them as long as the vehicle doesn't drive during critical hours (school or office entry and exit times) and it's insured and my technical inspection is clean, even if it's expired. but in case of accident, it's under my responsibility, they were very clear.

there you have it....

PATRICK26

I published a description of the HOME CAR type in a post (around page 20, look for it!).

It's on p19: but it's not about HOME CAR but about motor-home... like in the old version

I've visited all the DRIRE sites but nothing about the HOME CAR category, they should update themselves

It seems to me that Patrick chose some terms poorly (otherwise it's clear enough as an explanation): when he talks about type, for the administration it's the category (para 2.1) (ex: CAM, TCP, VASP... (SP for specialized)) 😛 (on the registration card, the type field refers to the model in the manufacturer's brand) when he talks about category, for the administration it's the bodywork (CARAVAN, WORKSHOP, NON SPEC, )

Does the AUTOCARAVAN bodywork exist?

You'll find below all legal information concerning your vehicle: (source of this list)

OTC (Central Technical Organization) - www.utac-otc.com Road Safety - www.securiteroutiere.equipement.gouv.fr Legifrance (the public service for legal information dissemination) - www.legifrance.gouv.fr DRIRE (Regional Directorate of Industry, Research and Environment) - www.drire.gouv.fr Autosecuritas (National Cooperative for Vehicle Technical Inspection) - www.autosecuritas.fr

Hi, we'd like to connect with people who are converting their bus into a HOME CAR. Although the forum has plenty of information, we'd like to discuss with fellow enthusiasts. Our number is 0668145382—you can call us back on a landline for free. We're available in the Montélimar region. Thanks

Hi,

Indeed, we're not far away,

Patrick from Vergèze in the GARD.

Thanks again.

> s53, the s53R and the s53RX? Great question.

I think the R comes from Renault (it used to be Saviem).

As for the X, who has the answer?

Thanks.

Oops, here's what I found:

In 1987, a final vehicle restyling was decided while waiting for the launch of a new vehicle: removal of the black grille, new dashboard with floor-mounted gear shift. Technically, there were no modifications! The designation of this final evolution is S45RX, S53RX, and S105RX.

Source > http://www.bernistrucks.fr/actualite/actu_1005.php

And of course http://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=426195#426195

😛

You're right, motorhome instead of home car (home car is basically the same thing but for cattle-trailer certifications with a fitted section for the lad!).

I've muddled the terms....

Motorcaravan, that's light vehicle category.

PATRICK26

Well done Patrick! I haven't read this discussion thread in quite a while, and I didn't know you'd put in so much effort to make things easier for us (creating a new vehicle category at the mines). Really well done!!! I think you should create a new thread where people wouldn't ask questions, just post information or summaries like the one you shared above. That would keep you from having to repeat yourselves so much because information gets buried across so many pages.

As for your idea about a meet-up in Drôme, I think it's a good one because it seems like quite a few of us are in that area.