Trip to the Raja Ampat Islands in June (Indonesia) (page 4 of 6)

Or the buddy of Momo who’s also called Fred and who almost got Momo a free stay with the mustachioed guys?

In reality, I could’ve taken down those cops, but I didn’t know my rights! (And the police chief didn’t know his own rights—or mine, for that matter...) ...

Bribing the cops? In Kalimantan? Uhhh, Momo, I dunno... Didn’t you know your rights? What rights? Since when do we have rights with the police or administration in Indonesia as a foreigner? Even as a local, for that matter—unless you’re the son of so-and-so or buddies with some high-up mustachioed guy... But I’m always ready to change my mind, so go ahead, I’m all ears. Hey Wolf, you’re in Thailand now, right? No wonder Indonesians like Thailand—it’s similar to home, and they don’t feel too out of place, but at least there aren’t those bearded, preachy DJs who think they know everything.

Bribe the cops? In Kalimantan? Uhhh, Momo, I dunno... Didn’t you know your rights? What rights? Since when do we have rights with the police or administration in Indonesia as a foreigner? Even as a local, for that matter—unless you’re the son of so-and-so or buddies with some high-up mustachioed guy... .

Well, my house arrest clearly fell under an "unlawful detention"... I could’ve reported it to the police oversight in Pontianak—a cop gave me the address and even offered to go with me, along with a neighbor who knew me well and was furious about the whole thing. Those days of the little bribe they extort while yelling at you are over... As long as you haven’t broken the law, of course, because then it’s still a nightmare...

Yeah, because you were buddies with some mustachioed guy in the square—see what I wrote above. But even if you had filed a complaint, I don’t know if it would’ve gone far. Don’t forget that, like it or not, you’re a *bule* :-). And even for locals, you know how things work in this country: "Oh yes, yes, we’ll take care of it, of course, don’t worry!" And? And nothing—just empty words, or what my Indonesian textbook called: "polite phrases meant to put the other person at ease, but not to be taken literally."... Oh, a friend sent me this article—it talks about the realities of line 6. It’s in English, so you’ll need to read that poor primitive dialect, but despite that, it’s interesting. It covers topics we often discuss, either privately or on this forum, but the guy goes into detail—something we don’t do here. Really insightful for anyone who doesn’t know this country. Wolf will probably say we’re badmouthing the local tourism office, but whatever... http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/17/take-a-train-in-jakarta/

I quite agree, the situation is deteriorating in Indonesia (especially NTT and NTB) (security, organization, mafias, corruption). Bali isn’t any better off and is literally overrun with disrespectful tourists. I saw a debate on TV last night about the "Islamic police" (unofficial, arbitrary parallel police forces not officially recognized by the state) that are popping up everywhere. The debate was heated because they’re highlighting the government’s incompetence (politicians, police, humanitarian organizations, etc.) in dealing with this phenomenon.

Here are a few interesting links on the "penal" situation for tourists in Indonesia: http://catchup.ninemsn.com.au/balithedarksideofparadise/2013/8693430/bali-the-dark-side-of-paradise

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/article/-/18049168/death-row-confessions/ http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/top/news-com-au/inside-the-hellhole-of-a-bali-prison/938205

In my opinion, the situation is far from deteriorating—in fact, quite the opposite. Private militias have long flourished and faded in Indonesia. They always thrive on the alleged inability of public authorities to address various issues more or less covered by the penal code. What’s interesting is observing the population’s reactions toward them, shifting from indifferent sympathy to outrage and then to violent opposition, as happened in Lombok some time ago and very recently in Central Java, where residents of a town violently opposed Islamist groups attempting a *sweeping* operation. Moreover, President SBY’s firm stance—widely praised across the country—against these *ormas* (organizations that defy legality) and his first-ever mention of the FPI in directives to the Kapolri is a real green light for dissolving this group and a stern warning to all others accustomed to breaking the law with impunity. This new governmental stance is a relief for many police officers who were previously disheartened by the government’s hesitant or silent response to these groups’ abuses. All of this is moving in the right direction, and the majority of Indonesians, who are republican at heart, are starting to reject these parallel policing organizations—so this isn’t a deterioration. Right?

I agree that things have calmed down in Indonesia (you should’ve seen the chaos right after Suharto’s fall!!! Violence in Aceh, Poso, Maluku, Kalimantan, Banyuwangi, etc.). However, this isn’t the first time SBY has threatened to dissolve the FPI. Every time, it’s the same thing: just words, nothing more… The irony, considering he’s a former military man and everyone knows about the rivalries between the army and the bearded guys. That said, I hope the future proves me wrong!

Well, today things heated up for them, and for once I was glad that damn TV was on. There was a segment about how people are fed up seeing ormas taking justice into their own hands, and then the FPI monkeys facing off with more evolved guys. The more evolved ones talked about the FPI's excesses, the FPI leader said it wasn't true and there was no proof, with obvious bad faith. Bad luck for him—it looked like the move had been prepared, but it's clear the monkeys are predictable—at his words, they showed him a video proving exactly what he denied. The head monkey denied it, saying the video was tampered with. But he wasn’t credible; it was blatantly obvious, and even though he kept going with his mouth full of lies, he’d lost control and discredited himself in everyone’s eyes. A bit earlier, a high-ranking official had been interviewed, and he was really worked up against the FPI. Others also said the FPI hadn’t respected the president. I’ll skip the details, but now there are only two options: 1—the tension dies down in a few days once the victims are buried, and the FPI can keep up its nonsense; 2—the government realizes these monkeys have gotten too big for their boots—or in other words, that the puppet wants to be independent from its creator—and that in the long run, it could become a threat, so they ban the Indonesian frontists. Time will tell, but I agree with Lombokfan—things are boiling over in the country. Though it’s been boiling for years, and it’s not any hotter in 2013 than it was in, say, 2008. We’ll just have to see when, or if, it’s going to explode...

hello Naps

I found this on the Jakarta Post: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/07/22/central-java-muslim-clerics-condemn-fpi-clashes-with-locals.html

My girlfriend lives there, in Sukoharjo (a few kilometers from Purwokerto at the foot of Mount Slamet), where I ran into a group of Pemuda Pancasila thugs.

I read that these fascists killed a young woman. They just keep poisoning Indonesian society, but successive governments bear a large part of the responsibility by letting them operate freely. They exploit the idleness and ignorance of a marginalized part of the population, and they have money to recruit the unemployed.

Yeah, I was in Java when people stood up to them and kicked them out of a meeting they were trying to crash.

another one it’s reacting http://www.thejakartapost.com/...hes-with-locals.html

another more detailed one that also points out the police’s inaction http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/police-vow-crackdown-as-fpi-apologizes/

let’s hope it doesn’t go unanswered.

Yes, on one hand, the FPI gets criticized, but on the other, the cops have never done anything to stop them from carrying out their raids. The big problem is that there are politicians pulling the FPI's strings, because first, it channels the violence of certain groups (as long as they're attacking Christians or so-called "bad" Muslims, they won't go after the government and the corruption that are really responsible for the country's unrest), and second, it keeps the people in check through fear and religion/the "opium of the people." Because the FPI is nothing more than a militia of losers who play at being good Muslims and defenders of Islam, but carefully avoid fixing what *really* needs to be fixed in Indonesia. But now it seems like they want to break free from their masters, and they’ve outright insulted the president. Unfortunately, I fear this won’t go far—the president didn’t even react to the insult, whereas if it had come from someone else, it wouldn’t have been the same. It’s very possible all of this will fade into the oblivion of the big post-Ramadan celebrations...

2-the government understands that these monkeys have gotten too big for their boots, or in other words, that the puppet wants to be independent from its creator, which in the long run could pose a threat to it, and issues the ban on Indonesian Frontists. ...

You missed some episodes, Naps: the government has been in the FPI’s crosshairs for a while, but it’s not easy to dissolve those lunatics... Back in the BBM era, when they wanted to raise prices in 2012, the FPI was already very critical of SBY’s government, even calling for its dissolution over corruption! Of course, at that time, you were goofing around on beaches in India!! And look at the Lady Gaga affair: their (the FPI’s) shows of force were terrifying! The question is whether, in the event of a dissolution, law enforcement is ready—or willing—to crack down hard on the protests that will follow. If they just use a few tear gas canisters, they’ll be at it for a while!

PS/ The thread about the scammer in Flores just got censored because of some huge fascist a**hole who doesn’t get that for those who fight extremists here, the FN, identitarians, and other far-right movements all belong in the same bag (one weighted with big rocks and thrown into the sea)

Ah, India—yeah, we really loved it there, far from all those mustachioed and bearded idiots... But we still kept up with the news, like that whole Lady Whatever thing—we thought it was a shame that the FPI morons (I won’t call them monkeys anymore, it’s not fair to actual monkeys, who are better than them) could just impose their views like that. That said, it’s obvious that if they get dissolved, they’ll take it badly and try to cause chaos, but don’t tell me the army wouldn’t be happy to open fire and rack up a body count? They’d just be waiting for the green light from that obese president, and then—boom, let’s take down the FPI!! On the other hand, I didn’t know their independence moves against their puppet master had already surfaced during last year’s BBM affair, but either way, it backs up what I was saying: the government needs to put its foot down. Of course, there’s no guarantee they’ll do it right, but how many of those FPI hotheads are there, really? They’re bitter and stubborn, sure, but they’re just a handful—or two at most. What happened with that Flores scammer thread? And how do you know it was a fascist who got it censored? That post had already faded into obscurity for a while, right?

You're underestimating the FPI—they're numerous, and in some cities they have support. For example, in Pontianak, their leader is a notable figure. So when there were clashes with the Dayaks, you also had all the Malay gangsters on the streets. Even the guys from the villages, who came down in large numbers and armed (the kind you saw at that chaotic football match near Madame's place—not exactly weaklings), were outmatched...

As for the military, the ties between the armed forces and the FPI might be closer than we think. According to my soldier buddies from the Moluccas or NTT, there are even Christian members of the FPI!!!!!!!!! Don’t forget that at its core, the FPI is a gang—Islamism is just an excuse. Not so long ago, you could pay them to leave your brothel alone during Ramadan. This was exposed publicly, and they cleaned up their act around late 2011, if I remember correctly.

Now, about those Christian bearded guys—that’s something to verify. But my buddy Chris is *very* well-informed about all this (he’s one of those soldiers who rents out his muscle to gangs outside of work hours). What *has* been confirmed multiple times, though, is that the FPI recruits from criminals...

And those days of shooting into crowds in Indonesia are over. Look—every time there are a few deaths, even in some remote area, it causes a scandal. If there were protests, they’d happen under the spotlight. I can’t see the government ordering a massacre! Further proof: the president’s inaction has made him a laughingstock for a long time. He contradicts himself in his statements instead of taking action...

The only ones who’d happily take down the bearded guys are the cowboys from Densus 88!

But let’s hope this well-worn scenario ends soon and that I’m wrong!

Still, I wonder if the government realizes just how much it's putting itself at risk through its inaction, because the country's fragile unity is ultimately threatened. For now, they're playing it cool in Papua, but if all the non-Muslim communities decide they've had enough, that's a huge territory to control. Can you imagine if Papua, Kalimantan, North Sulawesi, Maluku, etc., decide the republican contract has been broken? It could turn into quite the mess... Those bearded Javanese would look pretty foolish on their overpopulated island with their dairy cows turning their backs on them. And then, the peaceful Muslims who've been keeping quiet would know exactly who to blame.

Oh, I know they have support, but still—if there were real political will, it wouldn’t be hard to stop them. All it takes is to paint them as terrorists, stir up a scandal or two, run a good media campaign, and then bring in the army. The Indonesian thugs are used to it—between East Timor, Aceh, and Papua, they’re even experts. But according to my wife, the FPI has high-level political backing because, as she says, there are people in the government funding them. You see, Wiranto is a scumbag and he’s wanted by the international tribunal for crimes against humanity, but sometimes I think if he won the elections next year, it might actually do the country some good—a strongman who’ll crack down. It’s tough to talk like this, and tough to admit that this kind of guy is what the country needs, but when you compare him to that oaf SBY, you start to think it might be the only solution. Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I realize SBY won’t do anything—he’s a loser... But you didn’t answer my question about Flores... @Wolf: Back during the religious war in the Moluccas, the bearded guys sent the ancestor of the FPI, the Laskar Jihad, to attack Christians. Because the problem is that in Java, there are 120 million people, and even if most are peaceful, statistically, that still leaves a lot of idiots—and definitely more than in the Moluccas or Papua (Papuans are only 3 million). That’s actually how they invaded the Moluccas and forced them to join their banana republic back in the days of that other moron, Sukarno...

hi

Yeah, I totally agree with you—the government’s playing with fire by acting like reckless apprentices. The balance is fragile. Naps: Berta’s right, I’m convinced they’ve got high-level backing to do what they’ve been doing with total impunity for a while now. They feel untouchable. If people hadn’t pushed back because they’re finally fed up with these lunatics, it would’ve been swept under the rug.

Christian FPI! I’m sure there are extremists among them, but how do they react when others burn churches like what happened in Bekasi... Maybe a nice fat sum helps smooth things over...

good night

Hey Éric. Yeah, Indonesia is a completely artificial creation and only exists because people are willing to go along with it. Things have already seriously deteriorated, and everyone’s fighting for their own piece of the pie without caring about the common good—normal with a corrupt government that confuses democracy with the dictatorship of the majority. If there were rebellions everywhere, it wouldn’t be easy to suppress everyone. Times have changed—anyone can film something on their phone and share it online, and the sleight-of-hand of the so-called democracy-fighting executioners is starting to wear thin.

There's no Indonesia, Wolfy! There's Javanesia, which that clever little Soekarno had the intelligence to call Indonesia, just to sugar-coat it and make people forget that it's Java grabbing the other islands. Then some good propaganda, anthems memorized from school (they'd be better off learning what a school is supposed to teach, but hey, you can't do everything), a good brainwashing, and voilà... Do you know the lyrics of the national anthem? And the principles of Pancasila? The Papuans call it *panca salah*, or as they say: *orang indonesia bilang A, buat B. Yang salah dibenarkan, yang benar disalahkan.* This country is artificial, and it might well split one day. Besides, the bigwigs in Jakarta are terrified it'll happen, but for now, it's not on the horizon. However, if it did happen, I don’t know how they’d manage to become the world’s number 6 (source: Lolo and Momo)...

Still, I wonder if the government realizes just how much it’s putting itself at risk with its inaction—because in the long run, it’s the country’s fragile unity that’s threatened.

Totally!!! In Pontianak back in 2012, things nearly got really ugly! The Dayaks had come down into the city, and on their protest route, they were throwing stones at Muslim schools, etc. Luckily, they didn’t go as far as burning a mosque—otherwise, we’d have had a replay of the Moluccas!! At that level! No one, except the people there who were terrified, seemed to notice! Over there, the FPI is horrendous: for Chinese New Year, those idiots had plastered posters all over Singkawang (the first city for Indonesians of Chinese origin) reminding Muslims that attending the festivities was a sin (talk about tact—I can just imagine the reverse, "Christians, don’t attend or take part in Eid celebrations!"—it’d be war!). Some people had torn them down, the FPI came back at it, and the army had to step in 🏴‍☠️ A few weeks before all that, SBY’s dad had literally declared, "Next time the FPI makes headlines, I’ll dissolve them!!" ... A year and a half later (and how many more incidents later), still nothing!!!!!! What a total wimp—this guy’s useless, leading a party that’s ultra-corrupt !