No, I Won’t Be Going Back to China (page 4 of 13)

Oh okay, so the number of posts guarantees a user's credibility on a forum.

Wow...

Well, people who want to kill their dog accuse it of having rabies.

How dare you contradict someone who says Chinese people are dirty, that they spit, or that they shout? And that, regardless of their post count...

In 48 hours, you managed to learn everything about China and the Chinese!!! Well done, you're impressive. After 6 visits of 4 to 6 weeks each, I still haven’t discovered any of that. Guess I’ll have to go back...

Too bad—I loved China. The Chinese people, their hospitality, their cuisine, the landscapes, etc. Back from a month off the beaten path (Sept 2018). Met a max of 20 Europeans during that month. Thankfully! I was welcomed in China much better than in France! The charming hotels, 3-4 stars, were magnificent! Do you prefer Kerala? Are there still Hindus working in hotels there? And is Indian cuisine less spicy than Chinese? Weird! I never had any issues in China, but I did with Indian food! I’ve traveled to almost all Asian countries, always making sure to avoid tourists. And well, I’ve never been disappointed in any country. The only downside to China is the cost of travel if you don’t want to run into tourists. And a guide is essential—just like in Isère if you speak German. On the other hand, 50% of Chinese people speak or understand English!! I’ll definitely go back to China, probably to the North. And there you have it. You were probably just there at the wrong time in China!!

Good evening

Americans complaining that servers in France don’t speak English???????? Poor things!!

I work in transportation and I don’t consider myself their servant........ too many people forget they could say thanks to Rochambeau, Lafayette, or Admiral de Grasse (among others), otherwise their independence????????? In a few years, there will be 1 billion French speakers on Earth.

In the USA, English is being caught up by Spanish; I speak Spanish and many Americans understand it (at least a little).

To wrap up, a little respect means learning at least a few words of the local language... you don’t just show up in someone’s country like it’s conquered territory! I went to Vietnam and studied Vietnamese for two years out of respect for the people... I spoke Vietnamese and they answered me in... French...... respect doesn’t kill anyone!!!!!!

I needed to get that off my chest, but stop insisting that English is king!!!!!!!!!

GOODBYE

Of course, saying that English is king bothers me too. But it is—except, say, in Vietnam or with older people who spoke French with me. I visit an Asian country every two years. And I can’t learn Russian, Chinese, Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Persian, Mongolian, Kazakh, etc. But one advantage in all these countries is that university students speak or at least understand English. So for me, it’s the only way to communicate! Still, it’s an advantage!!

In 48 hours, you had time to learn everything about China and the Chinese!!! Wow, you guys are impressive.

😎😎😎

According to the International Organisation of La Francophonie, in 2014, French was the fifth most spoken language in the world with 274 million speakers, representing 4% of the global population (one in 26 people). Out of these, 212 million used it daily (+7% between 2010 and 2014), representing 3% of the world's population (one in 32 people). Estimated at 284 million in 2015, the number of French speakers is expected to reach nearly 700 million by 2050, or 8% of the global population (one in 12 people). Additionally, 85% of these French speakers will be in Africa due to demographic growth. !!!!!

Absolutely!!!!! You're right!! I can assure you it’s very much practiced again in Vietnam, Laos, and even in Russia, which I know well... I won’t even mention Lebanon......

In Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and other parts of Kazakhstan, Russian is common... (since I'm from the region, I know it well) I can assure you that learning a little Russian is within your reach—just a good basic foundation? (like "Russian right away," for example) without any advertising😉

Ni hao,

And yet!!!

I encountered all these situations during my dozens of trips to China. For the spice, after some hesitation, they’d ask, and you’d just remember the point of the question.

When it comes to queues, there are actually rugby matches—but they’re non-violent, just firm. You’ve got to stand your ground just as much as they do, and it goes smoothly. Some train stations even have perfectly orderly lines!!!

On the other hand, the police *do* know violence! One evening, returning from Tiananmen Square on the subway, two Chinese men were arguing. Normal, right? Except in Chinese, it must’ve been more serious. Their wives tried to calm them down, but no luck. At the next station, a police patrol (who must’ve already been off duty) got an order from their officer, and in 10 seconds, the two hotheads were THROWN onto the platform like a sack of dirty laundry. Their wives had no choice but to follow, despite their protests. Doors closed, subway left.

Encounters with kids: In a village where no white person had ever set foot, they’d come up to stroke my arm to feel the hair!

It’s not that I don’t want to go back—it’s the visa hassle that puts me off. Before, in Hong Kong, I’d hand my passport to the reception desk at 8 AM and by 2 PM, I’d have a 3- or 6-month visa for 80 yuan. Now, you’ve got to fill out six pages of forms and get a one-month visa for 100 € in two weeks. Last time I tried, I gave up because I wanted to enter on foot from Laos and didn’t have a flight ticket—neither inbound nor outbound.

With the rise in living standards, China doesn’t need foreign tourists anymore. They’ve got plenty of customers right there, which explains the scramble at the Terracotta Warriors in Xi’an!

on foot through Laos

As long as it’s not through China...

For those who didn’t get it, don’t worry—there’s nothing to get. (or almost nothing)

For those who don’t get it: there’s a shared border between Laos and China, but no continuous transport. So you arrive by shared taxi from one side, exit Laos, and hike up the hill on foot to reach the stunning Chinese border post, where you’re very kindly welcomed to go through the automated check. Once you’re out, you’ll find a bus to Mengla.

We actually visited China in May 2016. It was a small-group organized tour (there were just 3 of us). We had ideal travel conditions: guides who took great care of us, a travel partner who was of Chinese origin and spoke Mandarin, which allowed us to meet up with one of her Chinese friends in Shanghai. She showed us around the area, and we had long conversations with her...

So we loved it! I don’t remember struggling particularly in lines, whether at the Terracotta Army, taking the train, or domestic flights. At any rate, nothing worse than what you’d experience in Paris.

Of course, the Chinese have certain behaviors that might bother us (it’s China, not Europe), but they’re usually very kind to Westerners. I was definitely frustrated by not being able to communicate (beyond a few words of English) with people who stopped us on the street—you could tell they wanted to connect. We made do with exchanging photos and gestures.

It’s true that the authorities can be quite strict (hard for a French person to understand), and you notice it when walking around cities, but it probably explains why you feel completely safe there. Walking back to your hotel through Shanghai’s central train station and its surroundings at midnight is nothing like doing the same thing at Gare de Lyon in Paris...

To wrap up, we really enjoyed every restaurant we tried, and the dishes were rarely very spicy. For example, I remember that on our first night in Shanghai, we went out alone to a restaurant near our hotel and had no trouble choosing our dishes—we found them delicious. Still, we couldn’t help but eye a table of Chinese people enjoying what looked like huge crayfish. They noticed and offered us the same dish. It was really nice of them, especially since, as we suspected, it was amazing.

All this to say, we’d really love to go back to China, and we’re actually planning to do just that in 2019 with a trip to Yunnan.

After a month in Yunnan, the travel conditions were GREAT—exactly as described in your trip notes.

Well... 😮

For me, all your "negative" experiences (behavior, communication, understanding) are exactly why I L-O-V-E-D China and would happily go back!

I never felt oppressed or pushed around... I found the Chinese people ready to help, and I got a lot of help during some pretty stressful moments!!! Plus, they didn’t hesitate to share their food with me: on the train, in lines, etc.

Their curiosity and the way they openly stare made me smile! And I think they have a great sense of humor!

When it comes to communication and the difficulty of making yourself understood, I think that’s all part of the adventure! 😛

I traveled solo without a tour and I’d do it again, but next time more in the southwest of China to discover even more of the countless landscapes in this beautiful country!

🙂

Hello, For me, my experience was the same as yours. My husband and I went to China alone in September 2013. We visited 6 provinces, using domestic flights and then taxis once we were there. We’d heard so many bad things about China that we went with some apprehensions. But once we were there, all our worries disappeared. We found the cities less noisy than in Vietnam, where we’d stayed for 2 months in 2009. In China, the many motorbikes are electric and glide silently. The people are calmer. They gather in squares to dance, make music, and sing. We found that charming. In Vietnam, life is perpetually noisy—it starts at 7 in the morning with loudspeakers blaring long speeches, and if they’re near your hotel, good luck waking up gently. Then there are the horns, trumpets, and countless motorbikes... As for the people, it’s all about commerce, commerce, commerce. When you walk into a shop, the salesperson follows you with a commercial smile, and if you leave without buying anything, they give you "the look." In China, we found them much cooler. It’s true that when they see foreigners (especially blond ones), they stare intensely, kids want to touch you, and some people even wanted to take photos with us. It didn’t bother us—in fact, we liked it. They try to help you on the street when they see you looking at a map. Sure, their English isn’t great, but as I always say: we speak "Marseille English," and they speak "Chinese English," and we managed just fine!!!!!!! For meals, I don’t remember having anything horrible. On the contrary, in Kunming, we found a "luxury" hotel (at an interesting price), and the breakfast was amazing—a buffet that went all around the restaurant, with absolutely everything, and it was all excellent. We’re planning to go back to visit other provinces because it was such a wonderful trip. On the other hand, 2 months in Vietnam is too much—by the end, we couldn’t stand being there anymore. Just to be clear, this is our personal experience, the same as yours, and I’m not trying to convince anyone or start a debate. Best regards, Anapo

Just to be clear, this is our personal feeling, the same as yours, and I don’t want to convince anyone or start a debate. Best regards, Anapo

That’s exactly how I feel about China too. No debate here either.

But going back after what we experienced—even trying a different region or time of year—just isn’t something we want to do, or feel ready for.

Ni hao,

Yay, long live China! 😛

But I’ll add that yes, it’s true they sometimes cut in line, but mindsets are changing, and the younger generation is increasingly adopting behaviors we see in the West.

For example: when I was at Hongqiao Airport, an elderly woman cut in front of me in line, and she was with a young man (her grandson???). I made a sound with my mouth to show my annoyance and get their attention. The grandson noticed, pulled his grandmother back behind me, and apologized. At first, the elderly woman didn’t understand the young man’s gesture. He said something to her, and she apologized with gestures and smiles... I really saw the clash of behaviors!

So, as others have said in this discussion, don’t hesitate to let them know you’re upset if someone cuts in line...

It’s also a cultural thing. For some, it’s just normal to, say, push past everyone to get on the bus.... My mom came from Poland to Canada in the '80s, and she told me that no one lined up to board a bus: a bus would arrive, and you just wanted to get on as fast as possible (especially in winter), no matter if it was through the front or back door—you just had to get on, period. When she arrived in Canada, she was surprised to see people lining up nicely and boarding through the correct door (in Montreal, you board at the front). So you have to adapt to where you are. When I was in China and saw people rushing toward the subway doors, honestly, I didn’t hesitate to push a little too to get on.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do! 😉😛

Ni hao,

Yay, long live China! 😛

But I’ll add that yes, it’s true they sometimes cut in line, but mindsets are changing, and the younger generation is increasingly adopting behaviors we see in the West.

For example: when I was at Hongqiao Airport, an elderly woman cut in front of me, and she was with a young man (her grandson???). I made a sound with my mouth to show my displeasure and get their attention. The grandson noticed, pulled his grandmother back behind me, and apologized. At first, the elderly woman didn’t understand the young man’s gesture. He said something to her, and she apologized with gestures and smiles... I really saw the clash of behaviors!

So, as others have said in this discussion, don’t hesitate to let them know you’re upset if someone cuts in front of you...

And it’s a cultural thing. For some, it’s just normal to, for example, push past everyone to get on the bus.... My mom came from Poland to Canada in the 80s, and she told me that no one lined up to get on a bus: a bus would arrive, and you just wanted to get on as fast as possible (especially in winter), no matter if it was through the front or back door—you just had to get on, period. When she arrived in Canada, she was surprised to see people lining up nicely and boarding through the right door (in Montreal, you board through the front door). So you have to adapt to where you are. When I was in China and saw people rushing toward the subway doors, honestly, I didn’t hesitate to push a little too to get on.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do! 😉😛

Hello,

You’re much younger than I am, and your comment is very accurate. For my part, at my age, I ask myself: can we really call people rude in other countries when we see the lack of manners that’s become widespread here over the last three decades? It seems like it affects a lot of people because, in reality, that’s just how life is now. Of course, if you have good manners yourself, you shouldn’t let others walk all over you, and (as you say) you should gently put people in their place. Best regards,

Example: When I was at Hongqiao Airport, an elderly woman cut in front of me in line with a young man (her grandson???). I made a sound with my mouth to show my displeasure and get their attention. The grandson noticed and pulled his grandmother back behind me, then apologized. At first, the elderly woman didn’t understand the young man’s gesture. He said something to her, and she apologized with gestures and smiles...

Same scene at Chengdu Airport. I was quietly waiting my turn behind the yellow line when a woman ducked under the elastic barrier to step up to the counter (where someone was already being served 😎). I turned and started to call her out, but her son (?), looking really embarrassed, immediately pulled her back into line. A pretty classic case of reverse generational transmission!

It’s better to react in the moment than to just stand there like a fool in line and wait until you’re back home to vent your frustration online. 🙂

Scary! I’ve been living in Shanghai for 6 months now and plan to stay. I’ve never experienced the situations you’re talking about, but I often overhear French tourists saying things like Chinese people spit on the ground, are hypocritical, etc. I went to university in Strasbourg and then Paris, and I saw way more spitting on the sidewalks there than here. The vast majority of Chinese people I know are extremely courteous, and you can build really strong friendships with them. But first, you have to stay humble, listen, and learn. I totally get why a horde of loud, never-satisfied French tourists would get what they deserve. Plus, it sounds like you took a "budget" trip—otherwise, why would you need to do your laundry at a laundromat? The cost of dry cleaning in hotels here is absolutely negligible compared to France, even in high-end hotels!

As for your opinion on the food, complain to your travel agency, but don’t insult the Chinese. And don’t be surprised if you got jostled in the most tourist-packed places. You won’t be going back to China? Well, I hope you’re right...