Nurse in Marrakech (page 4 of 6)

Under Muslim law for marriage and for the act to be 100% Islamic... is the father's consent (or the wali) mandatory? See Al Hadith? Otherwise, the act is no longer considered Muslim... it's prostitution in Islam (open your eyes if you want to practice your religion properly)

so you don’t think the new Moroccan law is Muslim-friendly?

If... but I don’t think that exists in Morocco... what I said is the marriage rule... you can ask the Minister of Islamic Affairs, and you’ll only get my answer... there are plenty of people who live differently, but I’m telling you what religion said.

The new family law states that a daughter no longer needs her father's consent to marry.

So she can legally marry in Morocco without her father's approval.

This is Moroccan law.

And you—does this new law align with Islam? (You said that in Islam, a daughter must have her father's consent.)

...Moroccan law regarding marriage is as follows: Both spouses, the father or the wali (the girl’s guardian if the father is deceased and she has no father or brother, with the qadi stepping in as a replacement), and two Adels (officials from the Ministry of Islamic Affairs)... in this case, the marriage is recognized as an Islamic marriage contract, and what you see or hear that goes against Islam is considered prostitution (may Allah protect and bless our Muslim brothers and sisters). To better understand marriage in Islam, you can read works by (Al Alamacha) or professors of Islamic studies.... and everything you mentioned... I don’t believe it exists in Morocco. Maybe among Moroccans abroad....?!

Big mistake. Moroccan law has changed unless you haven't heard about it everywhere.

The new law: both spouses are fully covered WITHOUT the father's or guardian's (brother, uncle, etc.) consent.

Do some research before replying because Moroccan law has changed for 2 years now. If you don't believe me, ask your nurse sister or someone else.

So, I’ll ask you again: "Is the new Moroccan law Islamic or not?"

Here’s some information for you regarding a few articles from the Family Code (Moudawana):

•Article 51 In the list of mutual rights and duties between spouses, the following points are particularly noteworthy:

•The wife shares with the husband the responsibility of managing household affairs and protecting the child.

•and also,

•consultation in decisions related to family matters, children, and family planning

Article 54

•Equality in family responsibility

•The family is now placed under the "joint responsibility of both spouses."

Article 51 - Article 52

•Equality in the rights and duties of both spouses. Abandonment of the rule of "the wife’s obedience to her husband"

Article 11

•Abolition of the rule that subjected women, under the title of "wilaya" in marriage, to the guardianship of a male family member

•"Wilaya" is now a right of adult women, who are free to make their own choices and exercise them according to their own will and free consent.

Article 19

•Equality between women and men regarding the legal age of marriage, uniformly set at 18 years.

Article 70 – Article 78 - Article 114

•Divorce is defined as the dissolution of marriage bonds, which both husband and wife may initiate under judicial supervision, according to legal conditions specific to each. •In the previous text, divorce was a discretionary prerogative exercised by the husband, often abusively, and no recourse to a judge was considered.

Chariff, are you living on Mars or what? As Nemo told you, there are laws—the Moudawana has changed, and it’s for women’s benefit whether you like it or not. Now, women can ask for a divorce, yes, Chariff, they can even say no if they’re forced into marriage.

Initially, this discussion was about a nurse named "Sabrina," but I suggest we move the rest of the conversation about Islam—which interests me—to another thread. If you'd like, I can start it. I’d love to hear other perspectives on this topic.

I’m really aware of the unease in Moroccan society. I’m not sure how to bring up the subject without it sounding like a trial, but just as a way to share different ideas. I support your views.

didier

hey there

big topic but a tricky one—good luck! 😉

Moroccan law is based on Islam!! And to know if my sister can be in court... she's been married for over 20 years... which chapter in the marriage law says that??? I don't believe it.... the husband doesn't need someone like the wali... ARE YOU MOROCCAN?

No, I’m not Moroccan, but I think I know Moroccan laws better than you do.

Read the previous message carefully where I quoted the Moroccan law, citing the articles relevant to our topic.

Moroccan women no longer need their father’s permission to marry.

What’s more, a husband can’t divorce her if she doesn’t agree.

This is the new *Moudawana*. Go buy a Moroccan newspaper—everyone’s been talking about it since February 2004 (when the new law was passed).

Women no longer have a legal guardian; now they’re equal to men.

My question remains the same:

If the law no longer requires the father’s permission to marry, do you still consider the law to be Islamic?

Are you really Moroccan if you don’t even know the new family law, when everyone in Morocco has talked and is still talking about this topic?

This is a very sensitive topic.

You’ve got to tread carefully. I think you see what I’m trying to do. Actually, there’s real discomfort among part of the population regarding this new law.

Thanks for being interested in this issue. The law might be 100% Islamic in theory, and what I said reflects the Islamic perspective. To fully understand, you should go to the wilaya (some legal terms have different meanings when we interpret them).

If this is true, will the wilaya be held accountable before Allah?! There’s a hadith in Arabic: "LA NIKAHA ILLA BI WALI" (see Sahih Sunan al-Tirmidhi). This means marriage isn’t valid without a Wali (which might refer to the wilaya in the article). Another hadith says: "Ayyouma imra’a tazawwajat bi ghairi idhni waliyyiha, fa nikahoha batil, fa nikahoha batil, fa nikahoha batil" (see Sahih Sunan Abu Dawood).

Some scholars (Al-Ulama) also said: "La nikaha illa bi Shahidayn," meaning "No marriage without two witnesses."

Instead of speaking out, make an effort to ask Islamic questions to people knowledgeable in Islam (Al-Ulama, Islamic scholars).

Thanks for bringing up this very different topic with multiple perspectives.

Are you Moroccan or not? First and foremost, I speak as a Muslim? And I'm proud to be Moroccan

Sofmasa... Of course, she can ask for a divorce if the husband doesn’t give her his property or if it turns out he isn’t a practicing Muslim (if he doesn’t pray, for example, or neglects other Islamic basics). Otherwise, from an Islamic perspective, if the husband is a "real man" as they say, and the wife asks for a divorce... there’s a Hadith that implies Allah won’t approve if a woman seeks divorce without a valid reason...

Divorce in Islam involves many factors (timing and circumstances)—see the Quran and Hadith. It’s a big topic... check out books on divorce, like *Al-Mawsū‘ah al-Fiqhiyyah al-Muyassarah* or *Kitāb al-Ṭalāq* (Encyclopedia of simplified fiqh?)....

I can't answer this question without consulting the (OLAMA). I'm like everyone else here and I adhere to Moroccan Muslim law, but after the Olama (Quran and Sunnah)... women in Islam are not equal to men. Whoever says that in general about Islam is not a Muslim in the eyes of the Olama. The Quran says: "...wa lahonna mitlou alladi alaihinna...wa li rijali alaihinna daraja daraja wallaho azizoun hakim" (Al-Baqara "The Cow" 228) and "Arrijal kawwamoun ala annissa bima faddala Allah badahoum......." (see An-Nisa "Women" 34). There are also several hadiths stating that men are not equal to women in certain precise senses... Thanks for reading and understanding.

Thanks for your clarifications...

I think you’re straying from the topic. According to you, if the father’s consent isn’t given, the marriage isn’t Muslim, yet Moroccan law doesn’t require the father’s approval. So, in your view, Moroccan law wouldn’t be Muslim?

I think you don’t even know your own country and you’re thousands of kilometers away from Moroccan life. This is the first time I’ve seen a so-called Moroccan living in Morocco who’s never heard of the new *Moudawana*.

It’s time to wake up because the day has been here for a while; you should get out of bed before it’s night for good.

Being Muslim isn’t what you think it is.

***I don’t think you even know your own country, and you’re thousands of kilometers away from Moroccan life***

The issue is that you’re talking about completely different things.

On one side, there’s the obscurantist—someone who, despite living in Germany, clings to a strict Muslim mindset, recognizing no laws other than their own Quranic interpretation, and couldn’t care less about the laws passed in their country. And if you knew a little about the real Morocco (which clearly isn’t your case), you’d see that almost the entire rural population, the disadvantaged communities on the outskirts of cities, and even some "elites" think exactly like our obscurantist!

But to understand this, reading a few trendy magazines or copy-pasting texts from random sources won’t cut it. You have to experience the country beyond resort hotels. You need to immerse yourself in the local population, get close to the work done by humanitarian organizations, or even live within a company. That’s when you quickly realize that modernizing customs through laws is either completely utopian or, at best, if the obscurantists slow things down out of fear, it won’t happen overnight!