Trip to the Raja Ampat Islands in June (Indonesia) (page 5 of 6)

The Papuans call it *panca salah*, or as they say: orang indonesia bilang A, buat B. Yang salah dibenarkan, yang benar disalahkan. )...

It sounds like the lyrics from the band MARJINAL (from Jakarta) about TV: "yg pinter dibodohi, yg bodoh dibudayakan"!! ("what’s smart is made to look stupid, what’s stupid is turned into culture!" ... Well said! !

Did you see that SBY went to New York a few weeks ago to receive an award for his work promoting religious diversity?🏴‍☠️ And why not the Nobel Peace Prize while we're at it.

the guys who gave it that award are really off the mark!!

Wow, Obama really got that Nobel Peace Prize, despite the two wars he was waging and his support for Israel, no matter what he said. SBY’s a total pushover—back in Pak Harto’s day, stuff like this wouldn’t have happened. Those FPI idiots would’ve been torched with flamethrowers. And in ’98 when he stepped down, all the bearded troublemakers who’d been hiding out in Malaysia came back in a flash. I used to criticize Suharto a lot because, back then, I had my stupid Western biases about democracy and all that, but I’ve come to realize that’s the kind of leader these countries need. That’s why I’m voting for Wiranto next year—lol. Right now, you see posters and stickers everywhere with Suharto’s face and him saying: *piye kabare? Enak zaman ku, to?* (How’s it going? Things were better in my time, right?) It’s sad, because he wasn’t a democrat, but he was still the best president they’ve ever had. Sure, he was corrupt, but so were the ones who came after him—the difference is, under his rule, the country ran smoothly...

Let’s just say that for a democracy to be valid, you first need an education system that holds up—otherwise, at best, it’s a dictatorship with a carnival mask, and at worst, a "dumbocracy" like the one we’ve got... But in the current state of things, a general respected by his troops could actually be progress. Even if under Harto, Indonesians suffered less, the body count is still way too high to miss him—just look at the purge of leftists when he took power. Next to him, even Pinochet looks like a choirboy.

It's true that Harto wasn't exactly a saint, but he was already out of the picture by the time of the big massacres in Timor. And let's be real—those who followed him are just the same: Aceh, Papua, it's all burning, looting, raping, and killing. Not exactly saints either.

Yeah, Indonesia still isn’t a democracy. They make people think they are, but all they can do is change the face of the top crook every five years—nothing more.

It’s not just a proper education system they need, but also healthcare, infrastructure, and so on.

That won’t happen anytime soon, and the problem is that even though the country still isn’t a democracy, the post-Suharto governments have all been pushovers when it comes to the bearded extremists. At least Suharto kept them in check.

If there had been any social progress, we could’ve said the extremists were the lesser evil, but nope—no progress at all.

So, dictatorship for dictatorship, corruption for corruption, poverty for poverty, no public services for no public services, human rights violations for human rights violations—might as well have a government that cracks down on the extremists and troublemakers.

According to my pro contact (Suharto’s son-in-law), he’s better than Wiranto. He’s also got military ties but is tougher, more effective, and has some strong-arm actions under his belt. According to her, he’d have the guts to clean up the mess left by the FPI and their affiliates...

Long live Indonesia—just 8 more days until Ramadan is over, and I think this year I’ll celebrate its end like they do, but not for the same reasons!!!

Are the Raja Ampat Islands doable in November? Are they just about diving, or can you also go hiking? Thanks

November—who knows, maybe it’ll rain, maybe it won’t... You *can* hike, but you’ve gotta know what you’re doing. Because nothing’s organized, and if you run into trouble, don’t count on the authorities or anyone else to help you. You need your own gear, the ability to plan this kind of trip, speak at least some Indonesian, etc. A buddy of mine who lives in the area and is super experienced with this stuff nearly died from a severe malaria attack in the jungle of one of the archipelago’s big islands just two months ago. Luckily, he had meds, a satellite phone, and money—that’s what saved him. But barely, because even with all that, he came *this* close to kicking the bucket. So, if you’re used to hiking in general and in this kind of humid environment in particular (this "green hell" as the pros call it), if you know about malaria and how to treat it, if you’ve got the right gear, and if you’re in good physical and mental shape, then the answer is yes. Otherwise, well… it’s not a yes. :-)

We’re not gonna debate this for 10 years (nobody cares, and I’m pretty sure we’re just annoying everyone by going off-topic like this!!), but I won’t follow you in your apology for the horrible Suharto: too many massacres, too many horrors (’99 in Timor was his right-hand man Habibie and, above all, the culmination of his ultra-nationalist system)... Not all Indonesians need a good beating—you’ve got plenty of sensible, honest, enlightened people (especially in Yogya, where you are right now). It’s them we should be listening to, not the nationalists in khaki or, worse, the idiots on TV...

It’s clear they need (in my humble opinion) a strong leader (man or woman) to enforce the rules and really fight corruption. It’s true that change won’t happen anytime soon (unfortunately), but that’s no reason to wish for the return (or to miss) a military dictator as brutal as the one who inspired the Burmese regime and was the founding father of the "politik suap" (corruption system) and, more generally, everything that’s wrong in Indonesia today (like the rather weak education system) 🤪...

And you can’t compare the current political atmosphere to the one under Suharto! Criticizing Indonesia’s current democracy is fine, but come back to France for a bit—you’ll put things in perspective... ...

According to my pro source (Suharto’s son-in-law), he’s better than Wiranto. He also has ties with the military, but he’s tougher, just better overall. He’s got some strong-arm actions under his belt, and according to her, he’d have the guts to clean up the mess left by the FPI and their affiliates... !!!

Yeah, he’s got one of his guys in place: Jokowi, the super likable (no irony here—the guy’s even a heavy metal fan!!) governor of Jakarta who’s repeatedly stood up to the bearded extremists and the bigwigs, and fought corruption really effectively when he was mayor of Solo/Surakarta...

hey everyone

"Did you see that SBY a few weeks ago went to New York to receive an award for his work promoting religious diversity?🏴‍☠️ Why not the Nobel Peace Prize while we're at it."

yeah, it's just staggering. Just recently, Shia refugees (who have been refugees since July 2012 after fleeing their villages in Madura, attacked by a mob of religious fanatics—homes destroyed and burned, murders) the police did nothing to protect them. As for the government of religious diversity (sic), the only thing they told them was that if they wanted to return to their villages in Sampang (Madura Island), they had to convert to Sunnism.

I hope the new government and the one Fred and Naps are talking about will take steps to protect all these minorities, otherwise things are going to flare up because in the medium term, they’ll be outflanked by these gangs

for sure!!! to prepare a trip around here, none of these discussions interest anyone...........and they don’t bring anything concrete. I didn’t think this kind of forum was for that—what a shame

Momo, I'm the one who's not following you here. You're gonna tell me that in terms of human rights there's been a change in the post-Suharto era? Nope, there hasn't been. Has there been less corruption? Nope, not that either. Did Suharto create the corruption system? No, it was Sukarno who created it, and the Dutch before him. Is SBY nicer than Suharto? My eye, he also has blood on his hands, and not just a little—he took part in the genocide in East Timor when he was in the army. That genocide, by the way, was in '99, and Suharto was already out of the picture. And the current genocide in Papua, who's orchestrating that? Should we let the moderates have a voice? Because you think the bearded guys are gonna let them speak? Look at what's happening in Egypt and Tunisia... Plus, even if a majority of people don’t agree with these flaws, the problem is that in Indonesia there’s no mobilization—everyone couldn’t care less about everyone else. The only chance the moderates have to be heard is if they organize and gain popular support, but it doesn’t seem to be heading that way. So between the Suharto era and the post-Suharto era, the only difference I see is that the bearded guys now have a public presence and are causing trouble. Other than that, nothing’s changed—neither in terms of human rights (and let’s not even talk about women’s rights, children’s rights, the rights of Indonesian Chinese, or worse, the rights of foreigners), nor corruption, nor anything else. You’re annoying people, you say? Well, if they’re not happy, they can just not read it, like Mr. Toulouse, who instead of saying thanks after I took the time to answer his oh-so-interesting question about whether you can hike on an island, comes here to lecture. On this forum, there are tons of discussions that don’t interest me—the weather in Thailand or Bali, stories about Thai prostitutes in Pattaya, etc.—and I don’t read them, that’s all. That said, I’m sure there are plenty of people who are still interested in our discussion because it lets them learn things about the darker side of Indonesia that they won’t read in their Lonely Planet, and if this discussion were really so out of place, the mods would’ve buried it a long time ago. And you, Toulouse, who are you to say what should and shouldn’t be on this forum? If you’re not interested in the political, social, cultural, and religious considerations of a country, that’s your right. If all you care about is your own trip, that’s your right too. But it’s also our right to have other interests—this forum doesn’t revolve around you and your desires. Tolerance, you’ve got us there...

Sorry if I’m annoying you, Toulouse, but at the same time, look at how old this post is. We can’t exactly say we’re hijacking breaking news. No

I wasn’t actually defending Suharto, I just meant he was the best president they’ve had—but that doesn’t mean he was good. He was the least bad of the bunch, or as the Brits say: the best of a bad bunch! As for the people who are supposed to be educated in Indonesia, sadly I see very few, even in Jogja. Brainwashing starts from early childhood—salute the flag here, fear God there—it leaves its mark. The only ones who are somewhat educated are those with money who’ve seen what’s going on outside the country, but they’re not the majority... There’s the new generation, though—some are pretty aware, but they’re a minority of young people, mostly Javanese, who’ve had some schooling. And they don’t dare speak up in front of their parents about things like religious schizophrenia and hypocrisy (I know what I’m talking about, and you know why, but let’s avoid personal stuff on this forum). In the rest of the country, it’s a disaster: *hello mister punya banyak uang kontol besar, islam agama paling mulia bla bla!!!*

Thanks

Gus Dur was a pretty decent guy who still tried to lift his country up. He just lacked a bit of firmness and had no control over the army. Otherwise, keep an eye on Jokowi... everyone in JKT says he's "memang baik" (truly good), and they're all afraid he'll run for president and give up his position as governor of Jakarta.

Yeah, I dunno, but don’t expect miracles either when you see the state of Jakarta. Anyway, as long as he keeps the bearded guys in check, it’s all good... Here’s an article Mekong sent me. It’s in English, unfortunately, and you’ll need to be able to stomach reading that awful dialect with no depth, but it’s really informative (the article, not the English). *Racism and sexual violence in Indonesia*—just a heads-up, it’s pretty heavy, especially since it only describes the harsh reality of this so-called wonderful country: http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/10/racism-and-sexual-violence-in-indonesia/

Personally, I find this discussion fascinating. Especially since it's led by people who know Indonesia really well and give us a behind-the-scenes look through this in-depth conversation. Even if the viewpoints remain subjective and often contradictory, they shed light on the country in a different way. It offers a perspective that might not be very cheerful about the destination, but who said we should only talk about things that make us dream? Or that we shouldn’t criticize anything if we’re not at home? Being clear-eyed doesn’t stop you from traveling...

For example, I can mention Alexandra David-Néel—a great traveler and a deeply insightful person, yet extremely critical.

To find out if you can have a picnic in Raja Ampat in November, you can check here

thanks for the info