Petting a lion in South Africa? (page 6 of 10)

Clearly the message didn’t get through

Clearly the message didn’t get through

Looks like nothing new on this topic. So there are still tourists who want to pet lions? It’s an obsession. They should’ve been circus tamers!

They do the same thing in Thailand with tigers. Drugged, obviously. Tigers! When you see the size of the paws on even the smallest ones...

hi The law banning the breeding of lions in captivity still hasn’t passed. Scams involving so-called lion research centers and all that nonsense continue. The latest travel journal says, "I walked with lions at one of these fake centers," and it still breaks my heart! Have a good day

hi The law banning the breeding of lions in captivity still hasn’t passed. Scams involving so-called lion research centers and all that nonsense continue. The latest travel journal says, "I walked with lions at one of these fake centers," and it still breaks my heart! Have a good day

If that was the only issue. I was really heartbroken in Vietnam seeing so many birds locked in cages. A creature that needs to fly, and for miles. Sheltered from neither loudspeakers nor road noise. I also had the misfortune of visiting the Izmir zoo back in the 80s. It was more like a concentration camp. Still in Thailand, you sometimes come across people who have huskies!

And they call *us* human beings.

Are there centers that protect injured or orphaned lions? Kind of like how you can find "reserves" in Romania for bears that have been mistreated or injured cubs rescued from the wild..

No, it’s just impossible and extremely dangerous. Injured lions get eaten by hyenas, just like orphans (hyenas, leopards, other lions, etc.).

exactly what you shouldn’t do!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQNC4JecIgo

It’s all there... you don’t interact with cubs you don’t walk with adults you don’t pet a cheetah.

THE first question that ruffles feathers!

Where do these lions come from?

The second one:

What happens to them?

google: walking with lions south africa ethic

and dig a little... you’ll catch on fast.

Animal exploitation, a scam preying on good intentions, zero ethics, lots of money...

Hi Michel, Just trying to understand—https://cheetah.co.za/, good to avoid? Bruno

Hi there, first off, great to hear from you... don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater—it’s tough... there’s “I want world peace,” “I wage war on the world,” and “I try to make the world have fewer wars.”

I’ll probably be long and maybe really "annoying," but I’ll try to explain. “Most people listen to respond, not to understand.”

We can all agree that killing rhinos for their horns—supposedly magical (though, just to be clear, neither you nor I need those powers! I’m joking...)—is wrong.

You run a game reserve... not super wild, but still pretty rugged. You’ve got 10,000 hectares to protect... with guards, fences, video surveillance, dehorning, or microchips in the horn keratin, etc. It costs an arm and a leg... to protect, among other things, your 10 rhinos. You’ve got an old rhino who won’t be around much longer. Someone offers you $50,000—not for its horn, but for the trophy. That’s enough to protect the others... What do you do? Not accepting is ethical and moral... but you don’t have the funds for protection, and the risk of rhinos being mutilated or killed is high. If you accept, are you a bad person? Not exactly nice, but you’ll protect the other nine rhinos! You’ll admit the question, framed like that, is pretty interesting, right?

Now, onto your question. 1. They have cheetahs born on-site 9 or 10 (or more) years ago. That’s good—it shows fundamental care from the start. 2. The youngest wasn’t born there but was rescued. Also good. 3. What do they do? They let visitors interact with the cheetahs (old and young). The base fee is affordable, but things get pricier. 4. How? Keeping cheetahs means making them run... so it’s a big operation. Petting the older cheetahs and the young one (rescued) isn’t ideal. 5. Cheetahs are nothing like lions. They’re “almost domesticated.” They don’t pose the same terrifying danger as lions. And they’re *really* endangered (unlike lions). 6. What do they do with the money? No pseudo-genetic research or nonsense. They organize life between breeders and cheetahs (with guard dogs). They study cheetah behavior outside their center... They don’t take naive tourists near lion enclosures claiming they’ll see them in their "natural habitat."

So... To do all this, you need funds. Donors, volunteers, and... people who pay to get close to cheetahs (and cheetahs aren’t lions—physiologically, territorially, etc.). You’ll understand I get their approach, and when you can’t have thrushes, you eat blackbirds. Besides, no association or group has ever warned about this... (even if, obviously, there are bad apples in the bunch). So in my opinion, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Take care, ndlelanhle Stay well! Wishing you a good night!

Hi Michel. Not too long, not too boring either 😉 Factual as always—that’s what defines you and makes you a cornerstone of this part of the forum.

Your breakdown on the rhino reserve is unassailable. Selling the trophy is a crime in itself, but saving 9... 😮

That’s also why I shared your take on the cheetah park, which we visited back in 2016. Thanks, by the way, for digging into the site—proof that if you write about something, you’ve researched it.

Even though a cheetah isn’t a lion (I’m no expert on endangered species conservation), what we saw there is exactly what you denounce: petting the animal, even feeding it, playing with the cubs... Yet, by participating financially, we contribute to the species’ conservation through the nonprofit’s programs. And we get amazing memories as a bonus.

What I’m saying is that your warning should mainly make people aware that they need to study and inform themselves before acting (which I did for the cheetahs).

You can’t stop people from walking with lions if they really want to. You don’t have the power or the legitimacy to do that. But among all the options, there must be providers who do things right—maybe you know some? Why not highlight them here?

Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, as you so aptly put it.

Have a great day, Bruno P.S.: I can be long and boring too 😉

Hey, For lions, it’s impossible. Let’s imagine: You rescue an orphaned lion cub. Probability = 1% You bottle-feed it, And It becomes a lion with unmanageable danger. So, it’s doomed to live in an enclosure. You rescue one, you don’t rescue 50. And you tell the truth. The first problem is the lie. Secondly, Lions are bred in captivity. It’s like an animal shelter breeding its dogs. An association that wants to help lions— They buy land, Put up fences, Or act as a buffer between locals and lions. Tracking collars, Dogs, Kraals, Education, Local community profit-sharing. Example: Desert Lion Conservation in Namibia.

In your example These are old cheetahs They don’t restock They don’t breed They brought in a younger one from elsewhere They don’t make up justifications They fully participate in field actions with the local population And they’re cheetahs You put it all together And you were in a context that’s currently quite ethical

You can’t criticize people’s ways of traveling or the activities they choose. Oh yes, you can. We’re on the same planet. We’re not talking sea or mountains, pool or no pool, luxury hotel or backpacking. We’re talking about an activity offered to tourists that has a huge impact. Or else, we wouldn’t be shocked if I bought a necklace made of pangolin scales (an orphan we tried to save, blah blah), rhino horn, lion bone powder, ivory, bear bile. And I’m sticking to animals.

My concern In all good faith People do this activity They’ll find it amazing They’ll talk about it Others will read it And off we go again If no one at some point says Careful, it’s risky 😕 I’m not blaming those who did it in good faith But those who know… I went to a marine park a long time ago Afterward, I learned it wasn’t great I never went back Who’s for bear tamers at old fairs? Who’s for wild animals in circuses? Who’s for marine parks? There are actually several levels here… Who’s for rhino horn or turtle soup? We’re talking about this, right?

You can’t stop people from walking with lions if they want to..

True.

But this kind of informative post might mean there are only 2 customers instead of 10, so in the end, the place shuts down due to lack of profitability.

It’s not the same to walk with a lion thinking the animal is there because it was rescued and can’t live in the wild anymore, as it is to walk with a lion knowing the animal will eventually be killed by a "hunter" after being sedated first.

The providers do everything to make tourists believe they’re in the first scenario when they’re actually in the second.

What goes on behind the scenes is just unimaginable.

We’re talking about it, right?

Of course! 😛 !

Hello,

I came across your post 3 days ago.

Even though I’ve only read the first and last pages, I’m appalled by the level of human stupidity that can be reached in all areas of (our) society.

I’m a lover of wildlife (photo safaris), but I never would have imagined that this kind of "activity" could be proposed and done (in the end, I must be quite naive!!). Maybe it was discussed in the other pages I didn’t read, but this is the "logical" continuation of "TIPI’s" life, that Namibian girl whose parents raised her to live among and in contact with wild animals. It was a huge success with TV reports and books... and it seems to have left indelible marks.

In the end, this is the same "taste" as visits to Maasai villages (villages often created for tourists). By the way, many people consider this a safari activity...!! But very few realize that all these young women they see dancing (smartphone in hand) in front of them have undergone between 6 and 8 years of... FGM (female genital mutilation), that abominable ritual linked to beliefs from another era.

In the same vein as walking with lions, we should refuse to visit these Maasai villages. The worst part is that some people even take their own daughters, the same age as the mutilated girls, to see this "show"...!!

I never would have imagined it, but maybe you can also pay to go hiking in the Afghan mountains, guided by a Taliban member who will teach you their customs??? (and thus fund their activities)...

Indeed (utopian dream, of course), if no one went walking with lions or visited Maasai villages, the activity would die out, and the instigators might start asking themselves some questions.

Thanks for bringing up and clearly explaining the issue in this post.

Best regards,

...

Hi there, I don’t know anything about the Maasai. On the other hand, in Southern Africa, check out Namibia—there are visits to “villages” of the San, Zulu, or others, especially in KZN or near Hazyview. These are basically open-air museums, fully acknowledged as such. People play a role, then go home in jeans. Only the Japanese seem to think it’s real life. As for the San: Two versions. The same one—okay. And the San who are forced to dress up before going to milk the cows…