Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome (page 9 of 161)

I'd really like to find photos of a converted bus (an S53 if possible) to get an idea of what it looks like. Mine's far from finished, because those mega buses I see out there are built with serious equipment and resources (which a lot of us don't have), and it's not always doable on your own, even if you're really handy. Please share your photos—it's always cool to see what others are building! Frankiss@tiscali.fr Thanks everyone!

Hello, my project is to outfit a Renault Premium 19-ton truck with 8-seat bus configuration and sleeping bunks.

The truck is for a traveling orchestra (personnel + equipment).

The Lorient regulatory authority isn't well-informed on this topic. Does anyone have information about heavy-truck conversions?

I should clarify that in my case I have an exemption to drive on Sundays. The real issue isn't the customization but getting the vehicle registered for 9 seats!

Safe travels to all and thanks in advance.

basically, if you have a truck or converted bus, you're allowed to drive on Sundays – the ban only applies to cargo transport

for the DRIRE, you just need to check the isolated type approval document for 'camper van' vehicles

for 9 seats, that shouldn't be a problem – you can find approved bench seats from camper van accessory dealers (even if those benches are pretty pricey)

but if your passengers are in the living area, you need at least a visual and audio opening

all this info is in the isolated type approval document I have on hand!! (I'll have to post it online when I have the time!!)

Thanks so much, I was starting to doubt whether the project was feasible. The 2 or 3 heavy-vehicle conversion professionals I contacted were quite reserved—even pessimistic—about obtaining a registration for 9 seats with the DRIRE.

Of course, I'd be very pleased to get a copy of this individual approval document.

Thanks in advance.

So you can send me this document, here's my email address: suspens.loic@wanadoo.fr

Best wishes from Brittany.

Loic

And here's the document that will get everyone on the same page about doors, emergency exits, etc....

Copying and pasting from a PDF left some formatting errors, but it's all there. Happy reading...

The address is as follows: www.poitou-charentes.drire.gouv.fr/ vehicules/RTI/7-5-2RCR09.pdf

DRIRE PC 7-5-2RCR09-11/12/03

CONVERSION OF A VAN INTO A MOTORHOME (CAMPER VAN) This fact sheet concerns vehicles: fitted out in accordance with the technical prescriptions of the Road Safety and Traffic Management Department of April 7, 1998 (attached).

The file to be submitted must include the following documents: Documents to provide: Application for registration certificate Check or postal order for €86.90 made out to Finance Office Registration certificate or 3-in-1 (new vehicle) Weighing tickets (per axle and total) of the vehicle in running order, i.e., vehicle with body and fitments, fuel tanks and fresh water tanks filled, gas bottles in place. Sample of the descriptive notice of the base vehicle (white sheet crossed in red) Description of the fitments carried out, of the position of lockers and water tanks with side plan. The seating places usable while traveling will be indicated. Dimensioned diagrams of the side and rear faces showing the position and dimensions of the doors and exits. (technical prescriptions in annex I) Calculation of load distribution Form attached (annex II) Certificate of compliance with standard NFS56200 (July 1987). When a cut has been made in the bodywork of the original vehicle, technical opinion from the manufacturer for making this cut and certificate of conversion. Regulatory documentation may be required depending on the nature of the work. Regulatory documentation relating to seats and seat belts installed during this fitment. Vehicles put into service before 01/01/2000 are not subject to the requirement for seat belts in rear seats. For vehicles fitted out from a van with a GVW of 2,500 kg or less, certificate from the manufacturer certifying the vehicle’s compliance with category M1 regulations. If the vehicle is subject to periodic technical inspection, any documentation indicating that the technical inspection is valid and accepted. Documents must be carefully completed, dated and signed. The complete file consisting of original documents must be sent or submitted to the DRIRE of your department. You will then receive a summons for the presentation of your vehicle.

ANNEX I Technical Prescriptions 1 - Definition For the purposes of this circular, by: 1.1. Motor vehicle fitted out as a caravan: (See: definition of "motor caravan" given at point 5.1. section A annex II of directive 70/156/CEE as amended 98/14/CEE). By "motor-home" is meant a special-use vehicle of category M, designed to serve as accommodation and whose living compartment includes at least the following equipment: seats and a table, berths obtained by converting the seats, a kitchen corner and storage spaces. This equipment must be permanent, however the table may be designed to be easily collapsible. 1.2. Driving cab: Space where the driver and possibly one or more passengers are located while the vehicle is moving. 1.3. Living area: Living space located behind the rear partition of the driving cab. When it is not possible to define the position of this partition, the living space is delimited by the vertical plane located 5 cm behind the back of the driver’s seat. 1.4. Kerb weight and payload: Kerb weight in running order: see definition of directive 70/156/CEE as amended 98/14/CEE Payload: see definition of directive 95/48/CEE 1.5. Cab-over Possible space delimited by the bodywork above the driving cab. 2 - General Provisions: 2.1. Motor vehicles permanently equipped with a living area are classified as type "VASP" and body type "Caravan". Motor vehicles equipped with a removable section must be type-approved with the dual type: "Trailer (or Van) / VASP" and dual body type "Platform (or...) / Caravan". 2.2. In all cases, motor vehicles fitted out as caravans must comply with articles R 54 to R 61, R 69 to R 94, R 97 to R 104.1 of the road code and the implementing texts thereof. 3 - Prescriptions 3.1. The motorhome vehicle, although classified in category M, may have an N base, however, the latter must comply with the provisions of annex 11 of directive 70/156/CEE as amended 98/14/CEE. 3.2. Load distribution: Load distribution must be such that no axle of the vehicle is required to support a weight greater than that specified by the chassis manufacturer, except with authorization obtained from the motor vehicle manufacturer. In this case, the corresponding regulatory reports must be provided. 3.3. Seat belts See article 4 of the order of 5 December 1996. However, for a transitional period set until 1 March 1999, the provisions of article 5 of this order apply. 3.4. Cutting of the driving cab New test reports for seat belt anchorages are not necessary when the cab cutting has been carried out in accordance with the plan(s) provided or approved by the base vehicle manufacturer and/or in accordance with its prescriptions, or when it has been carried out in accordance with the plan of the converter approved by the base vehicle manufacturer. 3.5. Seating 3.5.1. - The carriage of persons is not authorized in semi-trailers fitted out as caravans. 3.5.2. The number of seats of the vehicle will be modified if necessary on the registration document. However, the number of seats mentioned on the registration document of a vehicle equipped with a removable living area must be that of the vehicle not fitted out as a caravan. In this case and subject to compliance with motorhome provisions, the mention "number of seats in VASP/Caravan: X" defining the number of seats of the vehicle fitted out as a caravan must be specified as a special note on the registration document. 3.5.3. The seating places to be used while the vehicle is traveling on the road must be designated by a pictogram or a label, or their location must be specified on a plan in the user manual. 3.6. Doors and emergency exits 3.6.1. General case Motorhomes must have visual and audible communication between the driving cab and the living area. The door of a bathroom containing an emergency exit is not considered an obstruction of the emergency exit. 3.6.2. Motorhome built from a cab chassis, a cab floor, a bare chassis or motorhome whose body is that of the type-approved base vehicle: 3.6.2.1. The access door to the living area must have the following minimum dimensions: 3.6.2.1.1. Motorhome of more than 12 m² overall surface: height: 1590 mm, width: 480 mm. 3.6.2.1.2. Motorhome of 12 m² or less overall surface: height: 1140 mm, the clear passage must be equal to or greater than 0.65 m². 3.6.2.2. Vehicles must have access doors and emergency exits according to one or the other of the following configurations: 3.6.2.2.1. : an access door to the driving position on each side; and an access door to the living area located on the right side or at the rear; and an emergency exit on another face not having the access door to the living area of 2,500 cm² surface with a minimum dimension of 450 mm. 3.6.2.2.2. : An access door to the cab on the driver’s side and an emergency exit located on the opposite side of 2,500 cm² surface with a minimum dimension of 450 mm or a living area of 2,500 cm² surface with a minimum dimension of 450 mm; and an access door to the living area, located on the right side or at the rear; and a free passage of 2,500 cm² with a minimum width of 450 mm between the front cab and the living area; and an emergency exit of 2,500 cm² with a minimum dimension of 450 mm located on a face not having the access door to the living area. 3.6.3. Motorhome of less than 12 m² overall surface whose body is that of the type-approved base vehicle The cab access doors, the side access door to the living area, the rear door or tailgate are considered satisfactory emergency exits if there is no partition between the cab and the living area. In the case where only the side door or rear door provides access to the living area, an emergency exit of 2,500 cm² surface with a minimum dimension of 450 mm, located on a face not having the access door to the living area, is necessary, otherwise the number of seats is limited to the number of the driving cab. 3.6.4. The hinges of the side pivoting doors, located on the side of the vehicle, must be fixed towards the front in the direction of travel. (In the case of a double-leaf door, only the leaf that opens first has hinges complying with this requirement, the other leaf may be locked). 3.6.5. The locks of the original doors of the base vehicle already type-approved, whose bodywork has not been modified at the level of these openings, are considered satisfactory. In this case, there may be no possibility of immediate opening or intermediate closing position. 3.6.6. Exterior doors must not open inward. The closure of exterior doors must allow them to open instantly from the inside, even in the locked position. 3.6.7. The closure of a side door whose access is facilitated by a step extending beyond the vehicle’s profile, must result in the automatic folding of the latter within the profile limits. Otherwise, a monitoring system with visual or audible warning on the dashboard indicates that the step folding has not been carried out. 3.7. Windows and glazing 3.7.1. The windscreen must be approved laminated glass, other glazing must be approved glass or plastic. Non-approved glazing is tolerated only for equipping a skylight or a sanitary compartment. For plastic glazing, information must be provided to the user not to use solvent products (such as alcohol, etc.) when cleaning. 3.7.2. Windows may be sliding, pop-out or lowering type. For permanently open glazing, information, such as a label, will be affixed near the driver. 3.8. Interior fittings 3.8.1. Interior fittings must comply with the order of 19/12/58 relating to vehicle fittings. 3.8.2. Parts located near seats used while traveling must not have dangerous protrusions or sharp edges. The edges of elements surrounding seating places, during vehicle movements, must have a radius of curvature of at least 3.2 mm or must be covered with energy-absorbing materials. 3.8.3. Kitchen shelves as well as the bases and shelves of upper cabinets must be equipped with means to prevent their contents from sliding outward. The doors of external lockers must not be likely to open inadvertently during vehicle movements in normal circulation, even in case of sudden braking, moreover, the open locking position is only possible when the door is kept parallel to the bodywork. 3.8.4. Each liquid tank, other than the fuel tank, greater than or equal to 100 liters, must be equipped with a baffler covering at least 50% of the tank’s cross-section, limiting each compartment to a maximum of 100 liters. 3.8.5. A fire extinguisher of at least 1 kg, of multi-purpose powder type, bearing the mark of conformity with standards (NF - MIH or NF - MIC or equivalent), must be installed on board the vehicle. 3.8.6. The fittings of the living area of the vehicle must comply with standard NF S 56 200 insofar as its provisions are not replaced by one or more CEN standard(s) covering the same field of application. In this case, the latter constitute the normative reference. The manufacturer or converter certifies compliance with standards by a certificate and affixes, for this purpose, a label in the living area.

ANNEX II CAMPER VAN FITMENT PAYLOAD VERIFICATION 1. MINIMUM PAYLOAD: Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: GVW = ................ kg Vehicle kerb weight (all tanks full): KW = ................ kg Number of passengers (including driver): N = ................. Overall vehicle length: L = ..................m Cargo Payload: CP = GVW-KW-(75 x N) CP = ................ kg Verify the following condition: CP ≤ (10 x N) + (10 x L).........≤ (10 x ...)+ (10 x .......)........ ≤ ....................... kg 2. LOAD DISTRIBUTION CALCULATION: => To perform the load distribution calculation, complete the table on the next page (unused lines will be left blank), and then verify that the conditions are met Note: For passengers, use a standard weight of 75 kg For weight in lockers and on the roof rack, you must choose the distribution yourself. The total weight in lockers and on the roof rack must equal the CP value calculated above (Cargo Payload). => Attach a plan of the fitment with identification of lockers and water tanks

Item considered Maximum weight at this location (in kg) Distance from front axle (in meters) Moment (distance x weight) Kerb weight front axle 0 0 Kerb weight rear axle E= Locker No. 1 Locker No. 2 Locker No. 3 Locker No. 4 Locker No. 5 Locker No. 6 Locker No. 7 Locker No. 8 Roof rack Passengers bench No. 1 Passengers bench No. 2 Passengers bench No. 3 TOTALS (A) 1. Condition on Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: Gross Vehicle Weight Rating authorized by the manufacturer (GVW): ............. kg (1) Total of weights obtained in the table: (figure (A)): ................. kg (2) Figure (2) should normally equal figure (1) 2. Condition on maximum masses: maximum loads authorized by Rear axle load: the manufacturer TOTAL OF THE MOMENT COLUMN OF THE TABLE = ..........................kg E Front axle load: GVW -- Rear axle load = .................................. -- ................................. = ..............................kg Verify that the maximum loads per axle do not exceed the manufacturer’s limits Annex III Address of approved control bodies (*) As of 26/03/2003 __ In application of article 3 of the order of 07 June 2002 (published in official gazette of 16 June 2002) relating to the prevention of fire, explosion and asphyxiation risks in leisure habitable vehicles.

Organization Address Telephone

BUREAU VERITAS Alfred Kastler Street 18 Victor Grignard Street 17000 LA ROCHELLE 86000 POITIERS 05.46.50.66.66 05.49.37.64.65

QUALIGAZ Regional office 4 Grand Cerf Boulevard 86000 POITIERS Tel.: 05.49.37.80.70 Fax: 05.49.37.64.20 (*): subject to the renewal of the approval of these organizations by the minister responsible for gas safety.

Hoping to have helped some of you,

Good evening

PATRICK26

Thanks PATRICK26

With a document like that, you could demoralize more than a few, but well, let's not lose heart even if I can't see how to get past this hurdle with my S53. Unless I'm forgetting something in this long discussion, do you recall if on this type of bus or S45 (which many of us own because of its lower cost), the installation of additional doors could have been done and officially certified?

Franck

Thanks Patrick,

What a mouthful! As for me, I'm going to try to find a competent company in this field.

In my case, comfort takes a back seat – what really matters is getting it registered for 9 seats.

Maybe one of you can recommend a company?

Here's the brief: conversion of a bus section (8 seats + bunks in the cargo area of a 19t Renault Premium heavy truck)

All the best, everyone.

loic

the DRIRE doc finally online thanks patrick26

okay in practice the first thing you need to do is get in touch with the people involved

DRIRE manager and Véritas manager

and address the little issues together for my part there was obviously the driver-side door, but after a phone call to the DRIRE manager everything was sorted out. 5 minutes on the phone and they answered all my questions I think that's where you should start

after buying the bus I set up a meeting with the Véritas manager in Reims and we looked at my bus and my plan together to see if my project was viable (they even helped simplify my construction plan!)

for weight distribution I don't have anything precise, just good layout planning plus my plan lets me reposition the tanks either further forward or back as needed!!

now I absolutely need to finish my bus before July because starting in July DRIRE will be privatized so it won't necessarily be the same people!! (thanks to the DRIRE manager, he's the one who told me to finish before July even if it's not completely done—if there's electricity, gas, and the main furniture, he said I can finish the rest later!!) anyway that's it !

You're right, you're raising a good question—what will happen after the DRIRE is privatized (more relaxed or even stricter)?

According to my sources, an approval would be signed by the engineer conducting the inspection, which would put their personal liability on the line instead of the DRIRE's!

So the pressure will be even greater. I'm predicting a real crunch in July across all DRIRE offices in France...

I'm buying my Renault Prémium heavy-duty truck tomorrow morning... and a few contacts from specialized companies are reassuring me about my 9-bunk conversion project.

Safe travels.

loic

Hello,

No information about adding a driver's door to an S45/53... All the people I know who own this type of vehicle and have tried it are not at the end of their troubles (not yet certified).

A small note for everyone about regulations for our conversions:

The differences of opinion from the DRIREs come from European harmonization: I'll try to be clear... Because of harmonization, vehicles end up classified in a particular way...

A motorhome in the heavy-duty category is reclassified from the N family (vehicle type classification) to the M family

For a converted bus you reclassify from N3 to M3. For a converted truck you reclassify from N2 to M3

The problem is that the M family is reserved for vehicles under 3.5t, and the N class is reserved for those over 3.5t!

But since there's no motorhome class in the N category, they push us into the M class with a weight exemption (each class is allocated possible exemptions, and the weight one is possible in M class). The problem as a consequence is that the N class can benefit from certain exemptions (the absence of a driver's door for example). On the other hand, in M class the absence of a door doesn't exist as a possible exemption!

The DRIREs find themselves obliged to reclassify us, because in N class it's impossible to have multiple fuel types on board (except heating oil and diesel which are considered the same) example: a bus running on gas cannot have a diesel tank, so, a truck or a bus running on diesel cannot have a gas tank (unless that's its primary purpose - gas delivery tanker for example). Only the motorhome class allows it, and for good reason!

You'll have to navigate through EU circulars... the 74/60/CEE is interesting on this subject. You'll find it online.

Documents like this, I have plenty, but they're in PDF and I can't easily upload them! For the one I put online, I spent 2 hours on it...

By reading the documents provided by the regional DRIREs, you'll see codes like 00/000/CEE. Be curious! Type these codes into your search engines! You'll find the European regulations that the designer of the simplified document relied on.

Yes, yes, the documents they give us (like the one I published) are simplified documents...

Come on, take heart, courage, and don't rely on what the mining ministry officials tell you... dig, get information from multiple cross-referenced sources (DRIRE, Legifrance, EU, etc.), and don't hesitate to remind them of the rules! These lazy DRIREs don't even keep themselves properly informed. Don't hesitate to put circulars or laws in front of them! They'll give in without any further formality, faced with the gnawing demons of their ignorance and incompetence.

Have a good day everyone,

PATRICK26

Hi everyone, I'm looking for a truck to travel in Africa and I found a TRM 4000. The issue is that the registration is classified as 'collection' (classic vehicle). Does anyone know if I can change the registration to convert it into a motorhome, since it's a collection vehicle? Thanks in advance.....😉

Okay, so... this darn driver's door... I've just got a question... we agree it's just about emergency exits... but then if we don't install any partition or separation in the bus, and there are at least two doors on the right side (like in most S45 or S53s), can we get around this driver's door requirement? thanks

No, the right-side door doesn't replace the left-side door

however, many authorities tolerate not having a left-side door on all the S53 projects I've followed, none added a driver's door and they all passed without any issues

either they say nothing or they grant a waiver or they consider the left-side window as an emergency exit (that's my situation)

you still need to check with your local authorities before you start the project

P.S.: I'm currently working on a website specialized in customized vehicles

here http://bus.benhurd.net

My new site is officially open

http://bus.benhurd.net

HI EVERYONE,

here's a website to check out if you're planning a conversion project:

http://www.campingcar-amateur.com

the site is really well documented and legal info is kept current. you'll also find electrical, water, and gas plans there.

that's all for tonight....

PATRICK26

A question's been bugging me. If you just remove the seats but don't add anything else, do you still have to register it anyway?

I'd like to be able to transport a motorcycle plus all the gear that comes with it, so I don't need any special partitions or anything. For sleeping, I'll just put a mattress on the floor. So I won't need to add anything. Basically, I just want to use the bus as a mobile garage.

Hello zolux,

As it happens, I'm selling a truck soon that matches what you're looking for.

It's an Iveco 11-ton truck.

Deep cab with 7 seats (documentation all in order)

Storage area with 6 bunk beds over 2.5m, plus another 4.5m left for your motorcycle workshop

The truck is equipped with a rear hatch (motorcycles are heavy!)

It has 440,000 original kilometers, but the engine was rebuilt brand new at Iveco 2 years ago.

Here's my email: suspens.loic@wanadoo.fr

Hello, I'm new to this forum and it's teaching me lots of interesting things. I'm in the process of getting my Class D license (I already obtained it but I've just started my FIMO training). I went to the local office a few days ago and they told me that with a Class D license you can't drive a customized bus with fewer than 10 seats (you need a Class C license). OK, that makes sense so far, but then the guy tells me that a customized bus with more than 10 seats is too much of a hassle to certify, that you need manufacturer authorizations and all that... So I wanted to know if someone can help me understand this and if anyone else is in the same situation as me. Thanks in advance.

Hi Patrick and everyone,

I just got my S53 bus registered as a VASP this morning in Loire-Atlantique with no problem and no driver's door. I think each department is different, and Patrick, could you send me the legal text saying that a driver's door is mandatory on a VASP? I have the highway code and I can't find anything about that.

Didn't you say earlier you'd offer a bottle of champagne to the first person who managed to get a vehicle without a driver's door approved? (I'm your guy!)

VASP registration 12/04/2005😏

HEY RAFLOU,

for the document from the drire about doors, it's online a bit higher up in the thread!

for the champagne bottle, I stand by what I said:

one bottle offered for a heavy-duty registration VASP MOTORHOME (MOTORHOME notation required!) presented for a vehicle that was recently approved without a driver's door.

it's clear there's nothing in it for a NON SPEC VASP or cattle truck, or breakdown truck, or anything else...

ONLY VASP MOTORHOME!

it's up to you to send a copy to this server or by fax to 0475830599. I keep my word, if it's VASP MOTORHOME, I'll send a bottle to the address on your registration.

if it's really VASP MOTORHOME, you'll set a precedent given the new directives they're applying! your registration will help sway the other drires.

I really hope I get to send you a nice bottle!

PATRICK26