Turkish Airlines flight delay and refusal to compensate

We bought round-trip tickets from Mulhouse/Basel to Maun (Botswana) in January 2023 through Option Way.

Turkish Airlines issued the entire round-trip tickets. The flight plan was:

31 August 2023: TK 926 from Basel/Mulhouse to Istanbul and TK38 from Istanbul to Johannesburg 1 September 2023: Airlink (4Z)300 from Johannesburg to Maun. 11 September 2023: Airlink (4Z)301 from Maun to Johannesburg and TK43 from Johannesburg to Istanbul 12 September 2023: TK1923 from Istanbul to Basel/Mulhouse.

On 1 September, on the outbound trip, Turkish Airlines flight TK38 from Istanbul to Johannesburg arrived 1 hour and 30 minutes late due to airport congestion. As a result, we missed our connection with Airlink flight (4Z) 300 from Johannesburg to Botswana (even though the initial layover time was sufficient for the connection). Upon arrival at Johannesburg Airport, a Turkish Airlines agent greeted us, booked us a room near the airport, and rebooked us on the same flight for the following day, 2 September. On 2 September, after numerous difficulties checking in at the Airlink counter in Johannesburg, we finally reached our final destination with a 24-hour delay. We lost our first day of vacation in Botswana, including the activities that were planned for that day. On 11 September, during our return trip and almost certainly due to the rescheduling of the outbound flight, the Airlink check-in counter in Maun did not recognize our tickets issued by Turkish Airlines. After many searches and phone calls, we had to buy new tickets for the Maun/Johannesburg flight 4Z301. This cost us 9,306 Botswana pula (643 €). Upon arrival in Johannesburg, the Turkish Airlines check-in counter again had trouble identifying us for flight TK43 from Johannesburg to Istanbul. It’s clear that the root of our check-in problems stemmed from the renumbering of our tickets when the Turkish Airlines representative rebooked us on the Airlink (4Z)300 flight for 2 September. During this process, all subsequent flight tickets must have been canceled. Since our return, I’ve requested the following from Turkish Airlines: · Compensation under the European Regulation EC 261/2004 of 11 February 2004 for flight delays, amounting to 600 € per passenger. We meet all the conditions: departure from a Franco/Swiss airport, arrival at the final destination more than 4 hours late, and a distance greater than 3,500 kilometers. Turkish Airlines has not provided evidence that they did everything possible to avoid this delay. · Reimbursement for the Airlink Maun/Johannesburg tickets on 11 September, which we had to pay again to Airlink even though we had already paid for them through our agent, Option Way. Turkish Airlines refuses compensation on the grounds that they complied with all regulations. Turkish Airlines and Airlink are passing the buck when it comes to reimbursing the tickets we paid for twice. For Turkish Airlines, claims can only be made through their website, and each time a different agent responds. I’ve contacted our insurance, legal protection, the travel ombudsman... without success. Currently, the case is with a lawyer working for "Air Indemnité," but I have little hope. Obviously, I won’t be flying with Turkish Airlines again—they seem to have a habit of not respecting schedules or customer satisfaction. A good lesson for planning very long layovers.

Hello,

Your case isn’t straightforward, first because you bought a flight through a third-party site with two airlines that are indeed partners on certain routes but aren’t really closely aligned.

Turkish issued the ticket, put you up when there was a delay on the outbound flight—so far, that seems pretty decent. Then came the issue with the ticket no longer being recognized, right? And you didn’t notice when you checked your booking? I always keep an eye on my reservations like a hawk in these situations. In fact, the Turkish Airlines app usually suggests options for follow-up flights if you miss one and indicates any additional payments required.

Indeed, if the ticket number was changed, they won’t be able to find you, and that’s a serious mistake—not on Turkish’s part, but on Airlink’s. For this kind of destination, it’s often more sensible to book separate flights, allowing for a buffer night on the way there and back—or at least, say, 8 to 10 hours—rather than trying to piece together mismatched connections.

Obviously, I won’t be flying with Turkish Airlines again, as they seem to have a habit of not respecting schedules or customer satisfaction.

Well, you won’t be traveling much at all then. TK isn’t great with customer service, and as a global airline, their agents struggle to handle the particular and complex cases that come up. We think our situation is the center of the universe, but between misunderstandings, language barriers, and complexity, they really do have a hard time keeping up—and simply understanding requests, just as we struggle to explain them clearly. Try reaching out on Facebook publicly; often, their customer service will take notice. But to say they’re more delayed than others is simply untrue. You’d be in for some real disappointments if you switched to, say, Lufthansa, especially with connections in Frankfurt. Personally, I’m probably going to have a tough time getting the 250 € Lot Polish owes me after a cancellation the other day. As for delays, there are plenty of studies and rankings out there. Here’s one from *La Dépêche*, based on last summer’s data, I think: https://www.ladepeche.fr/2024/09/05/quelles-compagnies-ont-connu-le-plus-de-retards-et-dannulations-de-vols-cet-ete-12178684.php

The title of your post is a bit misleading: the issue isn’t a “flight delay” but a mishandling of the ticket during the first layover.

Michel

Hello and thank you for your reply. We arrived in Botswana and headed into the bush, where we had no internet access. The Turkish Airlines agent gave us a sheet with writing we couldn’t understand, which we handed over to the Airlink counter. The agent who managed to get us on the Airlink flight on September 2nd kept that sheet. We left feeling confident, but it still ruined our trip because we had a bad feeling about it. Maybe there was a change in ticket numbering (we never actually had the tickets in hand!), but Turkish didn’t notify anyone—neither Option Way, Airlink, nor even their own staff. I should also mention that a few days before our departure, Turkish changed the schedule, and our layover in Johannesburg was reduced by an hour. And it was impossible to change the flight because everything was either fully booked or incompatible. You’re making me nervous because I’m planning a trip to Namibia for 2025, and our flight plan would be Luxembourg/Frankfurt/Windhoek operated by Lufthansa. I’ve also seen negative comments about this airline—staff go on strike regularly, which doesn’t reassure me. It’s true that I’m thinking of booking directly with the airlines instead of using a broker next time. If you have any advice, I’d love to hear it!

Hello,

To ensure your trip goes as smoothly as possible, it's best not to dive straight into your full itinerary right after arrival—plan for a 24-hour buffer instead. Same goes for connections: allow plenty of time! And don’t stack too many of them. One layover is fine, but more than that can quickly turn into a nightmare.

And of course, book directly on the airline’s website.

All airlines face delays or rerouting issues. I’ve had problems with AF, Lufthansa, Iberia, EasyJet...

It’s easier to communicate with Air France, but that doesn’t mean compensation will be paid out any faster...

Traditional airlines generally have better rebooking services. With low-cost carriers, it’s every traveler for themselves...

For Namibia, there aren’t many options.

Yes...

For Luxembourg to Windhoek, what are you looking at? There are Cityline, Air Dolomiti flights, and for the long-haul part, I don’t think it’s Lufthansa but Discover.

Then it’s via Frankfurt or Munich; Munich is a better airport, easier, smoother, and in Frankfurt, I’d say you should allow at least 3 hours.

Of course, buy on the airline’s website, but check if it’s cheaper on Lufthansa’s site when the flight is operated by another airline—sometimes it’s less expensive on the other airline’s site. For example, I recently bought an Air Baltic flight and was able to fly business class by booking on Air Baltic’s site for almost the price of an economy ticket on Lufthansa’s site.

Maybe there was a change in ticket numbering (we never actually had the tickets in hand!), but Turkish didn’t notify anyone—neither Option Way, Airlink, nor even their own staff.

From what you’re describing, I think Airlink, not having control over the TK ticket, issued a new one and broke the itinerary, which led to the cancellation of the rest. You can find the ticket number on your boarding passes.

Michel

We’ve already transited through Frankfurt when coming from Luxembourg. Generally, Luxair is on time, and they have several flights a day to Frankfurt. The advantage with Lufthansa is that the Frankfurt/Windhoek flights are direct. From what I remember, check-in at Frankfurt is a bit chaotic, but the connections are quicker.

Luxembourg works well for us. We live in Lorraine. We’d be traveling outside of school holidays, probably in May, so the airports might be less crowded.

Of course, we’re never safe from a surprise strike!

I don’t get the impression there are Luxembourg–Frankfurt flights on Luxair, and on Lufthansa’s site, in May, I did see Luxair connections but with another layover—I think Vienna. Munich, on the other hand, yes. There are direct Luxembourg–Frankfurt flights on LH, though.

Frankfurt is always packed, and in terms of delays, it’s probably the worst airport in Europe.

Michel

Hello,

First and foremost: always buy your **flight tickets directly from the airline** using a single booking. And always single booking, even for multi-destination trips. Does your reservation have a SINGLE PNR number?

Assuming it was indeed a single booking:

- Connecting flight from Mulhouse to Maun. This is considered ONE connecting flight departing from the European Union (multiple stops, as per the Court of Justice of the European Union). Note that the entire airport is in France. The "Swiss zone" of the airport is only a customs and police agreement, so it has no impact on the application of EU Regulation 261/2004. This is important because, while Regulation 261/2004 applies to Switzerland, it does not provide compensation for delays since the right to compensation for "3 hours or more" delays only comes from CJEU case law, not the regulation itself. And CJEU case law does not apply to Switzerland. Since you arrived at your final destination with a delay of "3 hours or more" exceeding 4 hours, you are entitled to 600 € per paying passenger, unless the airline can PROVE (mere claims are not enough) that the issue was due to (quoting) "extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken." See here: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2021/03/01/force-majeure-circonstances-exceptionnelles-circonstances-extraordinaires-quest-ce-que-cest-definition-refus-dindemnisation/

See the procedure to follow here: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2022/04/18/retard-premier-vol-correspondance-manquee/

"We lost our first day of vacation in Botswana, including the activities that were planned for that day." This has no legal bearing and doesn’t even need to be mentioned. By bringing it up, you’re only showing your lack of legal knowledge, which can only work against you.

Connecting flight on September 11th: Don’t get bogged down in multiple explanations, and even less in assumptions. Note that this flight is not covered by EU Regulation 261/2004 since it’s a flight departing from a non-EU country operated by a non-European airline. However, Turkey has adopted a law that is almost a copy of EU Regulation 261/2004. See here: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/ First flight segment: Same as before: Don’t get bogged down in multiple explanations or assumptions. File a claim for denied boarding since you had a confirmed reservation and presented yourself at the airport on time. Since this was ONE connecting flight, with one segment operated by Turkish Airlines, the claim must be made to Turkish under Turkish law, not EU Regulation 261/2004. Plus, of course, reimbursement for the ticket you had to rebook.

Regarding the return connecting flight, since neither EU Regulation 261/2004 nor CJEU case law applies, you’ll need to rely on the exact wording of Turkish law to define what constitutes a "connecting flight" and what "final destination" implies.

Finally, while the outbound flight shouldn’t be too difficult to handle (the local court with jurisdiction over Mulhouse Airport is competent), the same isn’t true for the return flight—unless Turkish Airlines is cooperative—since you’d need to take legal action in Turkey.

"For Turkish Airlines, claims can only be made through their website." An airline (or anyone else) cannot impose conditions that don’t exist in the law for its application.

However, you’ve entrusted your case to one of those agencies that take "25 or 30%" (excluding taxes). All these agencies include in their terms and conditions (which you accept with a single click) that if you eventually get compensation on your own, their commission is still due. Plus, you’d have to be pretty naive to believe that for 25% of 600 €, 400 €, or 250 € (150 €, 100 €, or 62.50 €), the agency will do anything more than send a letter you could’ve sent yourself. We’re light-years away from a lawyer’s fees... unless the agency has gathered a large number of cases for the same flight. If that works, it’s a win, and if not, the investment wasn’t too heavy.

Best regards,

Hi there,

You might face real disappointments if you turn, for example, to Lufthansa, especially with layovers in Frankfurt

That’s exactly what happened to me. We took a flight from Toulouse to Chennai with a layover in Frankfurt (January 2025). The Toulouse to Frankfurt flight was canceled with no alternative rebooking offered. So how were we supposed to get to Frankfurt? 😕 I called them to find a solution. They proposed rebooking the flights for the day after the original date, which—due to the schedule—meant spending a night in Frankfurt. Not wanting to lose a day of our trip, we asked to leave the day before the originally planned date. Everything was approved with no extra fees, but we’ll have to pay for the hotel, taxi, meals, etc., out of pocket—even though it’s not our fault.

Do you think it’ll be possible to get reimbursed for these additional expenses?

Hello,

You’re entitled to reimbursement for expenses incurred during the unexpected overnight stay in Frankfurt. Check this out: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2021/03/02/remboursement-frais-en-attente-du-vol-retarde-ou-de-reacheminement/

The legal basis for this is detailed in an ongoing case here: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2024/10/23/lufthansa-championne-du-refus-des-droits-des-passagers/

Best regards

Hi there,

Are you really sure about that?

From what I understand, the airline offered the next day, probably the same route 24 hours later, but Kate asked instead to move the connecting flight forward to the day before, while keeping the long-haul flight. So it was at the passenger’s request, no extra cost, but also no actual delay in the end.

In spirit, it’s eligible, but what about the letter of the law?

Michel

Hello,

"So it's at the passenger's initiative, free of charge, but also without any final delay."

No. You need to reread: - Article 5 of Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council, and more specifically its paragraph 1, "In the event of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned" (we are indeed in this situation), then under a (rerouting), and under b (right to care). Then Articles 8 and 9.

"In spirit, it's eligible, but in the letter of the law?"

The law is about the exact wording, down to the comma. Nothing in the wording of Articles 5, 8, and 9 allows the right to care to be dismissed—quite the opposite. Reread the two links I already shared!

Best regards,

Thanks for your replies.

If I understood the story correctly, the airline offered the following day, probably the same route 24 hours later, but Kate asked instead to move the connecting flight forward to the day before, while keeping the long-haul flight.

If I had chosen Lufthansa’s solution, we would have still been forced to spend a night in Frankfurt. The flight to Chennai from Frankfurt is at 10 AM, so you have to arrive the day before. The original early morning flight from Toulouse has been completely canceled every day. So, whether a day before or a day after, the night in Frankfurt became unavoidable. (Which adds an extra cost of around 300 € for the four of us: hotel, taxi, meals...)

Since Lufthansa is the champion of resisting passenger rights (https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2024/10/23/lufthansa-championne-du-refus-des-droits-des-passagers/), the only question is: are you ready to file a "European small claims procedure" with the local court that has jurisdiction over Toulouse airport if Lufthansa doesn’t respond favorably within two months after sending a registered letter? Best regards,

When was the flight canceled?

"You are not entitled to compensation if the airline notifies you of the cancellation under the following conditions:

- At least 2 weeks before departure

- Between 7 days and 2 weeks before departure by offering you a replacement flight departing no earlier than 2 hours before the scheduled departure time and arriving less than 4 hours later than planned

- Less than 7 days before departure by offering you a replacement flight departing no earlier than 1 hour before the scheduled departure time and arriving less than 2 hours later than planned"

In short, if Lufthansa notified you well in advance, you’re not entitled to anything.

I’ve noticed that Lufthansa no longer has the network it used to. I’m planning to go to Thailand from Lyon. Lufthansa was one of the options...

Okay, I’ll try sending a letter with the invoices attached, but I won’t start a "European small claims procedure" like Elviajeropar mentioned.

In short, if Lufthansa informed you well in advance, you're not entitled to anything.

Hello,

Here, you're confusing the right to compensation under Article 7 of EU Regulation 261/2004 (250, 400, or 600 € depending on the distance) with the right to re-routing and care under Articles 8 and 9 of the same regulation, within the framework of Articles 5 (cancellations), 4 (denied boarding), or 6 (delays).

As you mentioned, there’s no right to compensation if the passenger is informed more than 14 days in advance.

But this has nothing to do with the right to re-routing and care (Articles 8 and 9), which is available without any prior notice requirement. The same goes for the right to a refund if the passenger chooses that instead of re-routing.

Best regards,

Unless I'm mistaken, if a passenger is notified that their flight is canceled more than 14 days before departure, they're not entitled to anything. They can accept a re-routing (if the airline offers it) or a refund for their ticket. If the re-routing causes them to lose or gain days or incur additional expenses, that's on them.

Kate didn’t mention when her flight was canceled. (I think)

Good evening! 🙂🤪...

When you're not really into legal stuff, it's a bit hard to follow.

So, I’m sharing my recent case. I had a flight with LOT Polish – Vienna VIE to Warsaw WAW to Riga RIX, to be honest, on October 24th. On October 17th, LOT announced the cancellation of the VIE-WAW leg and only offered me a rebooking 48 hours later, on the 26th. I refused and asked for a refund. They did it in less than 7 days, so contract fulfilled. Am I also entitled to ask them for 250 €? It’s a European flight under 1500 km, right? I filled out the form to request it, and for now, I’m just waiting to see what happens.

Michel

Yes.

EasyJet canceled my flight 4 hours before (so less than 14 days before departure). Refund for the flight + compensation.

No fuss, either.

(And they even refunded all the expenses I incurred to get back to the departure airport!)

Kate didn’t tell us when her flight was canceled. (I think)

My flight scheduled for January 7, 2025, was canceled on August 19.

At first, they messed up by offering us the next Toulouse/Frankfurt flight, which arrived after the Frankfurt/Chennai departure!

So you're not within the timeframe that entitles you to anything.

Miles at best if you have the card. But since loyalty programs are getting more and more restrictive, it won’t be much help. 🤪

Air France once offered me a completely absurd rerouting with a second flight leaving before the first one. 😠

Their computer programming must need some work!

I no longer take those really early flights since KLM stood me up in Lyon.

Anyway, since I have to book a hotel night, I’ll just stay at the airport for the second flight.

Unless I'm mistaken, if the passenger is notified that their flight is canceled more than 14 days before departure, they're not entitled to anything.

Hello,

Let’s go over the texts (mainly Regulation 261/2004 of the European Parliament and Council) in detail.

Article 5

1. In the event of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned: a) shall be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; b) shall be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and (2), as well as, in the case of re-routing when the reasonably expected departure time of the new flight is at least the day after the planned departure of the canceled flight, the assistance provided for in Article 9(1)(b) and (c); and c) shall be entitled to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless they are informed of the cancellation of the flight: i) at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or ii) between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure if they are offered re-routing allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or iii) less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure if they are offered re-routing allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.

It’s important to note that the rights under a) and b) are NOT SUBJECT TO ANY CONDITIONS, unlike the right to compensation defined in c). Therefore, if notified more than 14 days in advance, there’s no right to compensation under c), but the rights under a) and b) still apply. So Articles 8 and 9 apply even if the passenger is informed more than 14 days in advance.

Article 8:

Assistance: right to reimbursement or re-routing 1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between: a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger’s original travel plan, together with, when relevant, - a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity; b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience, subject to availability of seats. [...] Article 9:

Right to care 1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge: a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time; b) hotel accommodation in cases where: - a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or - an additional stay to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary; c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other). [...]

They can accept re-routing (if the airline offers it) or request a refund for their ticket.

The phrase "if the airline offers it" leads me to these comments:

Under Article 8, the passenger has the choice between three options. The "Commission Communication" No. 2016/C 214/04, published in the Official Journal of the European Union on 15/06/2016, further clarifies in Article 4.2:

"Re-routing must be offered without additional cost to the passenger, even when passengers are re-routed by another air carrier or by a different mode of transport, or in a higher class, or at a higher fare than that paid for the initial service[...]", which is merely the application of Article 8 of the regulation.

And:

"The air carrier must offer simultaneously the choice between reimbursement or re-routing."

Furthermore,

"Re-routing must be offered without additional cost to the passenger, even when passengers are re-routed by another air carrier or by a different mode of transport, or in a higher class, or at a higher fare than that paid for the initial service[...]", which is again merely the application of Article 8 of the regulation.

And: "The air carrier must offer simultaneously the choice between reimbursement or re-routing."

Moreover, the judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union of 11 June 2020, Case C-74/19, states:

"Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004, read in the light of recital 14 thereof, must be interpreted as meaning that the fact that an air carrier re-routes a passenger, on the ground that the aircraft carrying that passenger was affected by an extraordinary circumstance, by means of a flight operated by itself and resulting in that passenger arriving on the day after that initially scheduled does not constitute a ‘reasonable measure’ releasing that carrier from its obligation to pay compensation under Article 5(1)(c) and Article 7(1) of that regulation, unless there was no other possibility of direct or indirect re-routing by a flight operated by itself or any other air carrier arriving at a less delayed time than the next flight of the air carrier concerned" [...]

All of the above implies that if the airline fails to meet its obligations, the passenger can formally request that the airline comply. If the airline does not act (no re-routing offered, or re-routing not meeting the "earliest opportunity" requirement), the passenger may purchase another ticket that meets the "earliest opportunity" re-routing requirement, even from another airline, and then claim reimbursement, if necessary, by taking legal action. The sine qua non condition is to cite the CJEU judgment in question to the judge, who will have no choice but to order the airline to reimburse.

Important: The choice between the three options offered by the airline is irreversible. So, if the passenger chooses a refund for their canceled ticket, they lose all right to re-routing and, consequently, any right to reimbursement for a new ticket.

For these reasons, the first thing to do when an airline informs you of a cancellation IS NOT to rush to call the airline. See here: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2023/09/29/indemnisation-meme-si-circonstance-extraordinaire-droit-reacheminement-dans-les-meilleurs-delais/

If the re-routing causes them to lose or gain days or incur additional costs, that’s on them.

Regarding lost salary days, for legal proceedings in France (unlike other EU Member States), you’re correct. Lost vacation days: you’re also correct. However, under Article 9, expenses incurred while waiting for the re-routing flight, including additional layovers, must be reimbursed upon presentation of receipts, especially since they should have been directly covered by the airline—unless, of course, this wait occurs at home.

Legal proceedings: Contrary to a common misconception, justice in France is free, except, of course, if you hire a lawyer. But when it comes to air passenger rights, there’s no need for a lawyer. You just need to know how to copy and paste from my website.

If you can also use the "European Small Claims Procedure" https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2021/03/02/procedure-europeenne-de-reglement-des-petits-litiges/ (if your opponent’s headquarters are in an EU Member State different from your country of residence), you should know that it’s a super simplified procedure done by mail. The same text can be used for both the registered letter and the document to be sent to the court. You’ll just need to modify the beginning and the end and fill out Form A.

The only "difficulties" are patience and discipline (not deviating from the templates).

Best regards

Hello,

In your case, in addition to a refund, you’re entitled to compensation of 250 € per paying passenger, unless the airline PROVES (simply claiming it isn’t enough) that the cancellation was due to (I quote) "extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken." See here: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2021/03/01/force-majeure-circonstances-exceptionnelles-circonstances-extraordinaires-quest-ce-que-cest-definition-refus-dindemnisation/

The "European Small Claims Procedure" applies since your opponent’s headquarters is in Poland and you reside in a different EU member state. This procedure is handled in writing.

The challenge is that, if I understand correctly, you live in France, but you can only take legal action in Polish courts (the court with jurisdiction over the airline’s headquarters), Austrian courts (the court with jurisdiction over the departure airport), or Latvian courts (the court with jurisdiction over the arrival airport). So the process would be in Polish, German, or Latvian.

For next time, instead of rushing to call the airline, I’d recommend following the steps outlined here: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com/2023/09/29/indemnisation-meme-si-circonstance-extraordinaire-droit-reacheminement-dans-les-meilleurs-delais/

Not only could this potentially secure you a rebooking "as soon as possible," but if the airline fails to offer you a rebooking "as soon as possible" and you have PROOF that seats were available on another flight—even operated by a different airline—that met this requirement, the airline can no longer hide behind "extraordinary circumstances," even if proven, to deny compensation.

Best regards,

Hello,

For next time, rather than rushing to the phone to contact the airline

I didn’t rush into anything at all, and I never call anyone.

I simply filled out the airline’s complaint form, recapped the facts, provided the details, cited the law that you hold dear, and attached a bank account number. In French; though writing in German, Polish, or Latvian wouldn’t have been an issue.

Problems of this scale aren’t something I take to court. Last week, I flew SAS Scandinavian for the first time in five years because I’d banned them after they wrongfully refused to "pay" me my miles. With LOT Polish, anyway, just mentioning a problem here in public—giving it visibility—costs them commercially far more than 250 €. In a few weeks, I’ll come back here to share how they responded, and maybe the airline will rise to the occasion, in which case we’ll rightfully sing their praises. Plus, I rediscovered Air Baltic on this trip and their elite-level service at a reasonable price, so LOT Polish’s bizarre cancellation actually justified a competing offer.

Michel

The cancellation was made several months ago.

In any case, the flight hasn't taken place yet... So it's premature to contact the airline about costs that won't exist until the future.

Finally, schedule changes are common. Kate's flight could still be modified by the airline.

Having said that, writing in German, Polish, or Latvian wouldn't have been an issue.

Problems of this scale aren't something I handle in court.

Hi, When the airline won’t budge even though you’re in the right, it’s the only solution—unless you’d rather just let it go. Best regards

the flight hasn't taken place yet... So it's premature to contact the airline about fees that won't exist until the future.

Hello,

The airline must cover these costs directly under Article 9 of EU Regulation 261/2004, which means you need to claim beforehand. However, due to CJEU case law, I think it's more effective to claim reimbursement after the flight, with the proper documentation.

Finally, schedule changes are common. Kate's flight could still be modified by the airline.

We completely agree.

Best regards

When the airline won’t hear anything, even though you’re in the right, it’s the only solution—unless you’d rather just give up.

I’m not giving up; I’m settling the dispute another way.

Michel

When the airline refuses to listen, even though you're within your rights, it's the only solution—unless you prefer to give up.

I don’t give up; I settle the dispute another way.

Michel

Hi there,

Now you’ve really got my attention! What way is that?

Except for the "European Small Claims Procedure," French law requires attempting to resolve the issue amicably—and providing proof of it—before taking the matter to court.

The Aulnay-sous-Bois court, which handles cases for Charles de Gaulle Airport, is nearly paralyzed by the volume of air travel disputes. That said, the addition of 10 new judges to this court since the beginning of the year should improve things.

Since the hearings are public, anyone can see for themselves by attending the small claims court in Aulnay-sous-Bois during air travel dispute sessions that almost all cases are dismissed: airlines wait until the last possible moment before a ruling to give in. In fact, even without going in person, a quick search online will show that the judges involved have spoken out about this situation.

And some airlines (like Lufthansa) will go all the way to a ruling—even when they know they’ll lose!

While a simple complaint is still enough in some cases, most of the time, airlines only back down once legal action is taken—but before it reaches a judgment, allowing them to include a confidentiality clause in the settlement agreement.

Best regards,

Wow, you’ve really got my attention now! How so?

I explain and illustrate this in a previous post: laying things out, for example, to redirect my commercial choices.

Honestly, I don’t feel like starting time-consuming and stressful procedures all over the place. And to be completely honest, I’m not entirely convinced these legal measures are legitimate.

It’s totally normal for the airline to provide meals, accommodation, compensate for the taxi, and of course refund the canceled flight. But asking for an amount higher than the ticket price for just a few hours’ delay? I’m not sure that’s very fair.

In the end, every traveler pays the price for these measures and compensations—they’re passed on to ticket prices and contribute to their inflation. Meh, I’m not into this game.

Michel

Thanks for this very detailed analysis you’ve done. In my case, the issue is figuring out who’s responsible for canceling our tickets—Turkish Airlines or Airlink. And I just can’t prove it. I still lean toward Turkish being at fault since they didn’t notify anyone about the ticket number change—not us, not Option Way, not Airlink, and not even their own check-in agents in Johannesburg. For a year now, I’ve been fighting with all the parties involved. I only have the name of Airlink’s customer service rep; Turkish is just an anonymous platform. The lawyer from Air Indemnité is waiting for the court hearing. Would you mind if I shared your analysis with her? Based on the messages she’s sent me, she doesn’t fully grasp the situation. My goal is to recover the cost of the reissued tickets (at full price!) Thanks again for taking an interest in my post.

Thank you for this very precise analysis you’ve done. In my case, the problem would be determining who is responsible for the cancellation of our tickets—Turkish Airlines or Airlink. And that’s something I can’t prove. I still lean toward Turkish Airlines being at fault since they didn’t notify anyone about the ticket number change—not us, not Option Way, not Airlink, nor even their own check-in agents in Johannesburg.

Hi,

You’re getting bogged down in issues that have no bearing on the dispute!

You don’t need to figure out "who’s at fault" because compensation is due regardless of responsibility. Cancellation or a delay of "3 hours or more" upon arrival at the final destination means compensation is due unless the airline can PROVE the issue was caused by (and I quote) "extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken" and, in the case of cancellation, if the passenger was informed less than 14 days in advance. There’s no question of responsibility here!

I don’t see any procedural difficulties for the outbound flight since the case is straightforward.

You’re expecting a lot from a claims agency given the amount they can hope to earn!

On the other hand, I highly doubt the return flight case will interest the agency since Regulation (EC) 261/2004 doesn’t apply to that flight. What does apply is Turkish law, which is nearly identical to Regulation 261/2004.

Best regards,

Honestly, I don’t feel like jumping through hoops with time-consuming and stressful procedures; and to be frank, I’m not entirely convinced these legal provisions are even legitimate.

A regulation from the European Union, adopted by both the Council (all heads of state or government) and the European Parliament, *is* legitimate. Personally, I believe no one—including airlines—should consider themselves above the law and free to ignore these rules.

Those "time-consuming and stressful procedures" boil down to drafting a single, proper letter that works for both the registered mail and filing with the "justice conciliator" or even the court. If you use the "European Small Claims Procedure," you can skip the conciliator phase entirely, and the whole process is handled in writing. So, it’s just two mailings and then waiting. You can find template letters on my site: https://retardimportantavion.wordpress.com

Sure, the airline should provide meals, accommodation, reimburse the taxi, and refund the canceled flight—totally normal. But demanding a sum greater than the ticket price for just a few hours’ delay? Not sure that’s entirely fair.

Don’t confuse reimbursement for a service paid for but not delivered with compensation for damages suffered. Damages have nothing to do with the price you paid. No one would argue that compensation for serious medical malpractice should be limited to the cost of the consultation with the negligent doctor! The same goes for air travel.

And when you say "a few hours," let me tell you—I’ve experienced two delays of over 48 hours. The worst was... 5 days (!!!) due to sheer negligence by the airline!

The damages can take many forms: - Lost wages for not returning to work as planned, not to mention the risk of upsetting your employer; - At your final destination (as stated on your ticket), no more public transport available; - Lost train ticket for the rest of your trip, plus the need for a hotel room and meals—none of which the airline will cover once you’ve left the airport; - For those with multiple connecting flights on separate tickets, losing the subsequent flights; - Cruise ships that have already departed, meaning the cruise is lost along with all related expenses; - Your planned itinerary is ruined, of course; - For business travel, lost revenue or missing an important meeting;

And the list goes on...

The European legislator set standardized, flat-rate compensations to avoid endless haggling.

In the end, every traveler pays the price for these rules and compensations—they’re passed on to ticket prices and contribute to inflation. Meh, not into this game.

Let me quote points 82 and 83 from the *Nelson* ruling by the Court of Justice of the European Union:

"82 It should be added that, as noted by the Advocate General in point 60 of his Opinion, according to the data submitted to the Court on the frequency of significant delays and the costs of said compensation for airlines, the proportion of flights whose delay entitles passengers to compensation under Regulation No 261/2004 is less than 0.15%. 83 Finally, no concrete evidence has been presented to the Court to suggest that paying compensation for significant delays would lead to an increase in fares or a reduction in the number of regional flights and service to remote destinations."

Best regards,

Good evening,

I don’t know why, but it seems we’re going to have a hard time understanding each other.

A regulation of the European Union, adopted both by the Council (the collective heads of state or government) and by the European Parliament, can only be legitimate.

Any law can be illegitimate—it’s a moral or ethical question. After that, you decide whether to use it or not, to enforce it or not. That’s a personal choice, and you’ll allow me the freedom to make my own.

Michel

Hello,

Totally agree—if it's a single booking (PNR), the airline is responsible for the ticket from the first to the last flight, no matter if you went through a reseller or not, or even if there are two different airlines on the ticket. That’s not the passenger’s problem. Since the ticket was issued by Turkish, they have to refund all the costs incurred due to their delay on the second outbound flight. They must reimburse the 600 € penalty + the amount spent to get back on the first return flight. There’s nothing to debate here—Turkish will have to pay, plus any potential legal fees incurred, and moral damages if claimed.

Thanks for your reply—it reinforces my request to Turkish Airlines. My lawyer has all my supporting documents to defend my rights.

so, time to get the lawyer on it! 😉

Hello,

Of course, Turkish Airlines owes you compensation, and possibly reimbursement for the flight you paid for yourself. Did you keep your boarding passes? It’s extremely important to have them in this case.

Michel

Yes, I have all the documents: tickets, invoices, details of the flight delay, copies of all my communications with their responses. I even have a copy of Airlink’s files showing we were definitely booked on the flight. The lawyer warned me that the hearing could take several months or even longer!

I didn’t rush into anything at all, and I never call anyone.

I simply filled out the airline’s complaint form, recapping the facts, providing the details, citing the law you hold dear, and attached a bank account number. In French; though writing in German, Polish, or Latvian wouldn’t have been an issue.

Problems of this scale aren’t something I take to court: last week, I flew SAS Scandinavian for the first time in 5 years because I’d banned them after they wrongfully refused to "pay" me my miles. LOT Polish, on the other hand—just mentioning an issue publicly here, giving it visibility, costs them commercially way more than 250 €.

LOT Polish just informed me they’re granting me the 250 € I requested via their simple online claim form. Thanks to the Polish airline for their professionalism and respect for the rules.

Michel