So where are they and what are they doing?

This catchy and somewhat mysterious title comes from several questions I’ve been asking myself.

VF has been back open for a reasonable number of weeks and months now. The number of visitors overall matches past averages, but the number of members online in the last 24 hours seems relatively lower than what we used to see.

Yet, to my surprise, I’m seeing fewer travel journals, way fewer messages, and way fewer questions. I don’t see many new registered users online, and I notice a number of members who are logged in but either aren’t participating or have stopped participating.

Something’s not adding up for me because, in my opinion, VF is still appealing, and I don’t see which other sites could really compete.

Was there a real break between pre- and post-Covid? Does it just take more time for some people to discover the site or learn that it’s active again? Do people now prefer quick consumption on sites like FB or others I’m not familiar with? Where have the site’s old-timers gone, and what are they doing with their time now? What’s really going on here?

Hi there,

After several years of being inactive, the site was forgotten by many. Some don’t even know it’s back up and running—it hasn’t been that long, really. There have probably been a few sad losses too, since some members were between 60 and 80 years old in 2020. And let’s not forget that COVID took a lot of lives. It’ll take time for things to get back to how they were—I’d say 1 to 2 years, with new folks joining to get the momentum going again. Travel still inspires dreams, so there’s no reason it won’t bounce back even stronger.

But yeah, it’s pretty quiet right now—I can tell from some of the forums I follow, like airlines, where there are only a few posts a day. Before, it was non-stop all day long. Let’s just give it time. 😉

A few years have gone by, and new habits have formed...

Plus, search engines answer so many questions now!

Meanwhile, the old VoyageForum members still have unresolved history between them that hasn’t necessarily faded with years of silence...

I'm not sure about the spelling in my previous post...

I do see, much to my surprise, slightly fewer travel journals

Oh, I can easily explain that to you !

I gave a little nod to your message in an old post from 14 or 15 years ago that I updated in Miscellaneous. Not really an answer to your questions, but just an observation that many haven’t come back—maybe tired of always answering the same questions, maybe not aware the forum reopened, or simply not interested anymore.

Really, how would we know where the "old-timers" are or what they’re doing, and what difference would it make to find out 🙂?

The old-timers from the forum also have unresolved history between them that hasn’t necessarily been settled after years of silence...

On the other hand, maybe we don’t see that same lightheartedness today that existed back then—and it didn’t hurt the forum’s vibe one bit.

Hello, I completely agree with your observation, and I can explain it for several reasons:

People today want almost immediate answers to their questions... And for that, many have signed up for Facebook groups, where the travel community has grown considerably. There, you get notifications when there’s a reply, and the groups are much more responsive than on VF (with links, phone numbers, websites, photos—all in real time...)

On the other hand, it’s clear that the Routard forum site is much more active now than it used to be... I’m also subscribed to that site, and there are way more new messages there than on VF. I think the closure of VF due to the COVID crisis marked the end of its "reign" in the world of travel forums in France and French-speaking regions...

Also worth noting that travel vlogs and other YouTube channels have exploded over the last 3-4 years. It’s always easier to watch a video than read a text...

As for the old members... Well, maybe some have passed away, others might have completely lost their taste for travel due to the consequences of the COVID crisis and no longer participate on the site... who knows...

On the other hand, maybe we don’t see that same lightheartedness today that existed back then—and it didn’t hurt the forum’s smooth operation at all.

Still, you can’t say I’m not working toward that. 😛

The lightness of the soul is fading, while the unbearable lightness of being persists... and gets worse.

I’ve been wondering about this forum too. The long interruption, for reasons that remain pretty unclear, was definitely damaging. I can’t find many topics that interest me anymore, nor do I feel like joining discussions that are still rare. Has the spirit of the forum changed, or is it just me? It seems like in the past, I used to find more local topics—now, it’s mostly about Asia, the Americas, or even Africa rather than Europe. The discussions could get really passionate—I remember heated exchanges about Catalonia and Puigdemont, for example. I don’t really feel that energy anymore... Hopefully, things will gradually get back on track.

There must have been some unfortunate deaths too, since some were aged between 60 and 80 in 2020

Wow! That’s really old! I had a narrow escape, didn’t I! 😎

Haha! Thankfully, but not a number! 😉

Among the old-timers, quite a few (including some legendary usernames) have moved on to other horizons. And I’m not talking about *Le Routard*, which, admittedly, is more active—though it’s flooded with promotional posts, whether for a guidebook or an agency. I’m thinking of that VF knockoff that launched a year after this place shut down, which is also pretty active, and I’m not sure its members would want to come back here... Who knows! 😉

Besides, even more than before, travel has become a consumer product like any other. I feel that on VF, the spirit was still about pure, hardcore travel, for the most part... We didn’t "do" a country, we visited it, we wandered around.

As I often say to those who tell me they want to "do the Amazon" in 4 days—the Amazon isn’t visited, it’s lived. That, too, I think doesn’t interest the majority of travelers anymore; they consume a country’s tourist sites... and that’s about as far as it goes.

Besides, as someone who’s mostly a solo traveler, it’s now pretty rare to find other solo folks willing to go on an adventure. These days, you meet the travel vlogger, the "digital nomad," the influencer, etc.—basically people who aren’t up for an adventure without internet, let alone without doing lives or videos of themselves... But that could be another topic.

Still, I think VF has had its time... It fit perfectly with the way people traveled in the 2010s/2020s, but the site would need to "update" itself....

Good evening Jacques, You expressed exactly what I was thinking. There’s not a comma to remove or add... unfortunately.

The testimonials, including yours, are really interesting. You took the time to elaborate.

I think all the points made by most participants in this discussion touch on the truth. I believe this will interest the site administrators. Indeed, we’re more than ever in a constantly evolving world that requires adaptation, and some ideas may emerge.

On my end, it’s true that VF just lets me provide information, share a few images for enjoyment, and expand my knowledge. It took me quite a few years, but I eventually understood what a colleague meant with his phrase: Google is your friend. Nowadays, you can plan your trips alone thanks to the huge amount of info available online. That wasn’t the case a dozen years ago when I joined VF.

Hi everyone,

I completely agree with your analysis, Jacques, but I’m suddenly feeling like a "travel dinosaur" 😂. More and more, I’m taking my time and no longer chasing after tourist hotspots, and I think many of us here are in the same boat. It’s true that other forums are much more active, but I really don’t relate to them at all—between questions about all-inclusive hotels and cruise ships! As for FB, it’s flooded with disguised ads like "I recommend my amazing guide...." I find plenty of info there, but there’s a ton of sorting to do!

That’s the whole point of VF, I think—having a community of travel enthusiasts who uncover hidden gems and share them in a small group (sometimes even privately). I’ve lost count of the amazing places I’ve discovered thanks to VF members!

On the other hand, another reality is that quite a few longtime VF members were really put off by the anti-vax rhetoric during 2020 and especially the fundraiser. Personally, I know two members who refuse to participate now but still keep an eye on everything being said (shoutout to the spies 😂😘). I really think it’s a shame not to move on from the past, but grudges can run deep sometimes!

Have a great Sunday, everyone

Christelle, there’s nothing to take away from your message, and what you said saves me from writing a long post myself.

I’ve noticed that there are a few who participate in several forums, including VF, and they’re probably the wisest ones. For a while, I thought the founder of another forum—a very kind person, by the way—wouldn’t continue once VF reopened, and that practically everyone would come back home. Looks like I was wrong. When I see who’s a moderator on one of those sites, I tell myself we’re not missing out by some people not returning. Some participants clearly felt that moderation on VF wasn’t vigorous enough, but that’s the price to pay for tolerance and giving as many people as possible a voice. At some point, you have to decide if you want smooth exchanges with only politically correct content, no waves, no one stepping out of line—or if you want something livelier, sometimes a bit heated. It’s really healthy of you to suggest drawing a line under the past, and I agree, even if some things were hard to swallow.

It’s worth noting that the interruption was particularly long, and new habits have formed. Still, VF is so well designed and more pleasant to browse than any other alternative, and that’ll make the difference in the long run. I also think VF is better suited for an international francophone audience. There’s a huge history of travel journals and contributions here.

As for the antivax rhetoric, like you said, I maintain that once people start reasoning out of fear, there’s nothing you can say to reach them. I respect the courage of those who speak out against the majority. Now that the site’s been taken over, the grudge argument isn’t relevant anymore, is it?

Yes, you can now plan your trips on your own thanks to the huge amount of info available online.

Yes. And no...

Most of the information is about well-trodden destinations. And above all, the dark side is missing... Everything is often clean, smooth, perfect. Like an Instagram post...

Plus, you need to know how to use a search engine and have time to dedicate to said research.

On that note, many people have had to sign up for Facebook groups, where the travel world has grown considerably, and there you get notifications when there’s a reply. The groups are way more responsive than on VF (with links, phone numbers, websites, photos—all in real time...)

Personally, I find Facebook’s tool pretty useless.

It’s super messy, overrun by people who make a living off travel. It’s the Shein of tourism.

I’m not sure the members even want to come back here.

Some have already returned, though. Nothing stops you from being here and there, even if "there" can be a bit torn by that duality.

Since the site has been taken over, the grudge argument is no longer relevant, right?

The first moderation messages were signed with the former owner’s name. Maybe that didn’t encourage some people to come back?

Afterwards, the other reality is that quite a few former VF members had a really hard time...

... the anti-vax rants from 2020

VF wasn’t spared by the wave of madness that swept the world at that time, blindly sharing (and hammering) links, articles, videos... some of the worst stuff going around. And maybe this wasn’t the right place for it. But was the official narrative—now starting to be documented—itself free from excess, misinformation? Was there ever room for a calm, objective, nuanced, and cautious debate?

When two extremes clash, some pick a side. That’s what happened here. Let history be the judge.

... and especially the fundraiser.

Ah, *La Cagnotte*! Some folks still haven’t gotten over shelling out 25 €, shouting Scam!, raging Dishonesty, howling Personal enrichment :/—quick to forget that this money was, as always crystal clear, meant to keep the site running, PMs included, for as long as the pandemic forced it into hibernation.

Wasn’t that the case?

Didn’t they benefit from it? Aren’t they still logging in almost every day?

But where are they now and what are they doing?

A strange question... Did we really expect that once the forum woke from its long slumber, the people who’d flown elsewhere would come back, the topics frozen for so long would gently stir back to life, that everything would be like before, with no need for a reconquest (and patience, *reconquest* takes patience, right)?

We can compare numbers, lament, twist the stats, bemoan that *the-world-has-changed-and-people-too-who-travel-differently-now*... or we can lift our heads from nostalgia and step into the shoes of the bravest among us, who are already sharing stunning travel journals, sharp reflections, beautiful images, inspired contests, and spot-on tips... who are moving forward, period!

♪What’s become of all my friends That I held so close and loved so well? They’ve scattered far and wide, I fear I think the wind has blown them all away Love is dead♫

(@Jojoone, Just to set the record straight and cut short your misleading claims: I have no stake in VF and hold no position here.)

In this thread, I didn’t quote you or even think of you, so right now I think there’s been a misunderstanding. I mentioned a real moderator from another site, but only in passing.

I completely agree with you about the vaccine issue and the fundraiser. While I understand some people may have had doubts and grown impatient—the forum stayed closed for quite a while after the donation call—you’d have to be really bad-faith to still hold onto that idea. Who could honestly say the forum didn’t stay accessible non-stop and that it didn’t reopen in the end?

Between us, I’m really proud not to be vaccinated, and surprisingly, I’m still alive! At the risk of my life, I made this effort not to further strain state finances. Just a drop in the ocean 🙂 Still, it’s shocking to hear so many people say that if they had to do it over, they wouldn’t get vaccinated again. Even more surprising is hearing so many vaccinated folks say they got really sick from Covid despite the vaccine. The saddest part—and no one talks about it—is that the vaccine arrived when the virus had already mutated enough to lose its initial level of danger. But wait, aren’t med students still taught not to vaccinate during an epidemic? I’m truly in awe of those who came up with the idea of spreading the notion of "conspiracy theory" everywhere. There’s nothing more effective for discrediting anything inconvenient. Let’s close this parenthesis. For everyone’s sake, I won’t bring up this topic again.

As for my questions that don’t suit you, could you please send me a detailed list via PM of the topics you’ll allow me to discuss? I can’t figure it out on my own.

Posts criticizing Covid policies actually had their place here, given the impact it had on our lives as travelers..... After some people took it badly.... I don’t see how the site owner’s opinion should affect whether participants stay (or not) on a site about travel, not politics.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, VF was well-suited to the 2010–2020 period.... and social media today better meets travelers' expectations, especially when it comes to responsiveness. Answers to questions are usually super quick, and you get notifications to alert you....

Personally, I still check VF for info on destinations, but most of the posts (many from before COVID) describing certain places are now outdated (prices, regulations, how places are set up, etc.).

It's easy to open a parenthesis for yourself and then close it...

The issue wasn’t so much about discussing vaccination or being for or against it. The problem came from the flood of completely absurd links and the fact that the team was both judge and jury...

No right of reply, censorship—VF had become a dictatorship of its founder’s single-minded thinking.🤪

Fighting what’s called single-minded thinking by being single-minded yourself is pretty paradoxical...😏

But is it still the same site owner in the end?

Because if that's the case, a message about their attitude toward the Covid policy would have been welcome for the forum's reopening.

you get the notification to warn you....

Notifications also exist on VF.

Like on Routard, via email...

I think on social media, you get a factual answer (or not... or ads...), but you don’t really discuss.

It’s just zapping, instant stuff.

On a forum, especially a well-structured one, you communicate, you discuss, you get to know each other over time. There’s a history, cross-referencing in posts. It’s way more developed.

The site has been sold. It's no longer the same owner.

Check it out here

I didn’t remember there being any controversy about the COVID vaccine here on this forum—it didn’t stand out to me, at least. Personally, I got all the necessary vaccinations and tests *illo tempore* and made sure I had all the certificates and other essential documents for traveling, not forgetting masks. I went four months without flying in 2020—back then, flights were getting canceled one after another... and another two months in 2021. Still personally, I’m a big believer in vaccinations, and even now, I get vaccinated against COVID every year (it’s actually recommended given my age). So, what’s the issue? I don’t think the forum’s slow restart is due to the COVID question.

I don’t think the old site owner’s posts about COVID are the reason for this tough comeback either. More likely the reasons I mentioned a bit earlier... But anyway, I hope the original post doesn’t "go off track" into COVID or vaccines because that could quickly spark a heated debate... though I do miss some of those fiery discussions on this forum.

Oh yeah, the goal definitely wasn’t to reignite those endless debates! Just wanted to share the vibe from ex-members of this forum

I think this aspect of things wasn’t off-topic, and sometimes discussions do drift into secondary points about the theme. I got pretty much the answers I was looking for, since there isn’t just one reason for the current situation. Thanks to those who shared these insights—I was a bit in the dark.

Up to us to keep VF alive while we wait for reinforcements! 🙂

Didn’t they take advantage of it? Aren’t they still connected almost every day?

I love the use of the feminine 😉 Connected every day... asked for a refund of the 25 €... have (important ) roles on another forum... must be itching to give in to temptation...

Anyway, to answer Jojo, I’d say you’ve got to be patient, that it wasn’t better before, that it’s just different today. A lot left because of the bad vibes, some stayed on the other forum. After all, we’re only talking about a handful of members! New people will join this forum, and soon, soon:

Haha, I’m laughing at your photo, Kate—but pleeeease, no more comebacks of the brawls! At the end of VF, I didn’t dare chime in anymore because there was always that grumpy, bitter person who criticized everything!! Seriously, I don’t miss those people at all 😅

Especially when the photo becomes the illustration for the topic!! 😄

Dying of laughter, this makes me want to come chat. We’re not congratulating you, Kate 😂

Maybe they’ll replace it with this one?

Don't you have the same thing with sitting in the snow? 😇

I think several people didn’t share the information they had. They didn’t do it out of discretion and politeness, which is actually quite honorable.

After taking a look at another forum, particularly the discussion about VF, some things became clearer. To fill the gap left by frequent travelers after VF’s long hiatus, someone eventually set up a makeshift replacement site—putting in a lot of effort. These people managed to attract around 800 of the most active members, at least those who met their criteria. Among other things, I assume you couldn’t be too argumentative, stir up controversy, or be against *you-know-what*. Just to be clear, I’m not criticizing—those who run a site are also legally responsible for the content posted there. I don’t manage a site, but I’m fully aware of the painstaking work it involves.

That’s why VF has already regained its daily visitor count but only about half (rough estimate) of its members who’ve been online in the last 24 hours.

The situation is getting a bit awkward now. Theoretically, the other site wasn’t meant to last once the main site—with 1,300 times more members—returned.

Honestly, I regret how this turned out. Personally, I never considered switching to a site with far worse ergonomics than VF. Plus, I’ve posted all my travel journals and my more or less successful humorous takes here. Starting over somewhere else? What’s the point? Even though there were some tense moments, VF’s attitude and its moderators deserve my unwavering loyalty. I think I’ve realized that VF’s moderation could be too harsh with some and overly tolerant with others—especially since one moderator was a bit stricter than the other (as François mentioned in one of his posts). But one day, early on, I understood that despite everything, VF’s moderation as a whole was still better than elsewhere. You either have that talent or you don’t.

With time, the original site will regain its dominance.

Kola, I chose you to send this message because I saw your responses to the administrator and a moderator in that thread. You gave your honest opinion with well-reasoned arguments, and to me, almost all your points had a ring of truth. Frankly, I was impressed—especially since you found yourself somewhat alone as the defense’s advocate. While I can see the logic in some of your opponents’ arguments, some of them seem wrong, exaggerated, or have since been proven incorrect.

Thanks to those who took the time to reply. All we can do now is (calmly?) watch how things unfold.

Where did the old-timers of the site go and what are they doing with their time now? What’s really going on?

Don’t lose sight of the fact that becoming an idle, contemplative being is exhausting—that’s why so many end up passing away. And our good president, of the Republic, wants to put everyone back to work so people can fulfill themselves through their jobs. Plus, waking up around 10 AM on a cruise ship, unlimited breakfast, lying around watching the waves, an afternoon nap—it’s all so tiring.

Between us, I’m really proud not to be vaccinated, and it’s surprising, but I’m still alive

How many people have died from vaccine side effects? The answer is barely in the hundreds. How many people have died because they contracted SARS, H1N1, or COVID? Millions. Vaccines have been around for centuries now, so I don’t see why we’re questioning this medical advancement.

Long live systematic vaccination... from the first months of life!

Long live systematic vaccination... from the first months of life!

I have a friend who’s a GP, and he was telling me the other day that he’s lost count of the number of parents who refuse—or at the very least question—mandatory vaccines for their kids...

These people managed to attract around 800 participants

Some of these people post on both sites (same username or different one).

For those who only stay on the other forum, you can ask them over there, either publicly or privately, why they’re so loyal to just one.

I think some will answer François even though he’s no longer around, others will mention their attachment to Déborah, their loyalty, or that they love the cozy community they’ve built.

You might convince a few that participating in both isn’t betrayal.

For the rest, a forum thrives if it has the answers to current questions. If the answers are well indexed in search engines.

For the first point, it’s up to us to take action by answering questions and suggesting varied topics.

For the second point, it’s up to the team in charge.

I think several people didn’t share the information they had with me. [...] To fill the gap left by the long hiatus of VF, someone eventually set up a makeshift site with whatever they had, sparing no effort.

Did you really not know FV existed?

The situation is getting a bit tedious now—another site theoretically wasn’t meant to last once the main one, with 1,300 times more members, came back.

Your whole message is quite insightful, but the statement above strikes me as a bit... naive (no judgment, no criticism). If the other site was created to fill the huge void left by VF’s sudden shutdown, to bring together lost regulars, recreate the vibe, and reignite that sense of community and joy... it was never meant to be just a temporary fix.

Despite similar features and structure... differences quickly became clear. Maybe a soul struggles to be reborn when the Spirit (and moderation) tightly control the flow, leaving little room for detours.

Two forums. Two clashing visions. While some members navigate both, post in both... others seem to have found a sense of calm and safety on FV (Moderation is watching) that suits them better. They probably won’t come back. Will others take their place?

(Thanks for the indirect recognition 😊...)

@Attila

I think some will answer you, François

Maybe you should loosen up and not forget that this forum—with its exceptional design, the one you missed, the one you tried (and failed) to recreate elsewhere, the one you were among the first to return to (I wasn’t far behind 🙂)—is François’s creation.

If gratitude is too much to ask, how about indifference?

It’s astonishing to hear so many vaccinated people say they still got really sick from Covid despite the vaccine.

Yeah, but who can say for sure that if they hadn’t been vaccinated, they’d still be alive? And those who weren’t vaccinated—maybe they’re among all the people who’ve disappeared from the forum? 😉

Did you really not know FV existed?

I took a quick look two or three years ago, maybe twice. But a lot’s happened in my life since then, and it kinda slipped my mind—I didn’t think I’d ever bring this up again on a reopened VF.

My dearest Kola,

I don’t know how François cast his spell on you, but clearly, it worked.

I stated a simple truth—one unrelated to my history with VF: if some people don’t come back, it’s really because of François.

I wouldn’t have returned myself if the site hadn’t been sold and the team hadn’t changed.

That sale allowed me to move on, and I hope others will do the same.

For me, the most important thing is that there’s a satisfying freedom of speech here, and overall, discussions are going pretty well at the moment. I just hope that with new arrivals or some returnees, this continues. What some people couldn’t accept was that their outraged, easily startled reactions were the ones that ended up causing trouble. A tendency to see more harm than there actually was. Sometimes it was an unhealthy and almost obsessive way of operating.

Yet all it takes is to argue politely and accept that there are eccentrics, funny people, and those who have ideas opposite to yours. Closed-moderation forums, sorry, are for the intolerant and the killjoys.