Discussion Closure

Hi, I started a thread about Afghanistan.

Out of 4 pages, more than half had nothing to do with the country/topic. The mods closed the thread—why not ban off-topic members and clean it up instead? Instead of closing a thread that had 2 REALLY interesting videos! Because in my thread, there will be more videos to come...

If you close it as soon as a few members go off-topic, letting some former prostitute who’s never set foot in the country tell a guy who spent 10 days there what’s true or not about Afghanistan...

If all the anti-Taliban folks tell you *Le Figaro* or others do a better job than this YouTuber... LOL Journalists often haven’t even been there—they just copy each other or write articles via ChatGPT... *Le Figaro*, for example, gets millions in subsidies to churn out garbage... And now this young guy deserves to be silenced?

Reopen the thread and clean it up! Thanks

The thread is just closed to new messages. The ad you're making for this YouTuber and that dictatorship is still online, along with the links to access it.

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Instead of deleting messages for going off-topic, they’d rather close the thread. So I can’t post the rest there?

I find that really annoying! !

At this rate, we might as well close topics about North Korea, Iran, the Maldives... they're also dictatorships... If we can only talk about certain countries, then...

You should write to the forum team.

contact_01@voyageforum.com

This address is listed in the contacts at the bottom of the page.

All your threads about Afghanistan will likely be closed since it's a controversial destination.

Other discussions would probably end up the same way, in my opinion.

But I don’t think it’s forbidden to post new threads.

Maybe with a less blunt comment...

The way you present things immediately invites heated debate...

Yeah, I get it—you shouldn’t have an open mind and should just stick to what our government and media tell us.

If they tell me again that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and we need to invade the country, then it must be true.

The bad guys are *them*, there’s only one truth, I’ve got it.

(I’m laughing about it, though, because it actually makes me sad. Especially since the world takes sides without even watching these videos. The comments on YouTube are light-years away from those posted on this forum—go figure… P.S.: Even though I’m replying to you, I don’t have anything against you, just to be clear. ;) I just think it’s a shame that as soon as a post goes off-topic, it gets closed instead of cleaning up the mess. It’s so *very* French, in the end!)

A lot of destinations spark lively discussions.

Dictatorships, but not only that.

You reason in your own way, I reason in mine, Tatra in theirs, etc.

You accuse others of not being open-minded. But others might see you as someone who completely lacks it.

Over 4 pages, more than half had no connection to the country/subject.

Good evening, unfortunately yes—I’m sorry to see this discussion closed because I really enjoyed it. All this because of a number of forum users who became hysterical, lost all self-control, and started calling each other "cagoles"...

Hello,

We didn’t close your thread because of the topic.

We want Voyage Forum to remain a travel forum where future travelers can find useful information—not insults.

That’s why we closed the discussion. If we had to delete every comment where people were just venting hate at each other, there wouldn’t be much left.

Lately, a lot of new users have chosen to leave the forum, disappointed by the harsh responses. We can’t afford that.

Best regards,

Yes, I understand, you shouldn't have an open mind

Hey, when it comes to lacking an open mind, I think you’re a prime example You start a topic that’s so interesting, and as soon as the discussion doesn’t go your way, you declare you don’t want to respond anymore Even worse, you ask for members to be kicked off the forum—is *that* what having an open mind looks like??

Personally, I watched all of Tibi Jones’ videos about Afghanistan (and I remembered what he said several times): "that he was far from agreeing with everything happening in the country" . And of course, he never showed everything he disagreed with. If he had filmed it, the Taliban would’ve destroyed his videos before he even left the country.

And pointing fingers at a sex worker who was forced into it at 12 years old—that’s your idea of being open-minded?? 🤡

We want Voyage Forum to remain a travel forum where future travelers can find information that will be useful to them, not insults.

Hello,

The topic was tricky, but the opposing viewpoints were, of course, well-mannered, argued... and perhaps opened up new perspectives.

So why not strengthen moderation—or ask it to do meticulous work—and only delete posts that systematically derail a discussion, whether it’s purely informative or a bit more reflective like this one?

With their bright red flag, you can see those users coming from a mile away 😕

There are plenty of informative travel forums out there...

VF has that little something extra that makes it unique, setting it apart from blogs, FB accounts, Instagram... or other travel forums that retreat into a self-proclaimed bubble.

This precious space for expression shouldn’t be threatened by certain people who confuse freedom of speech with logorrheic chaos.

Hello,

Lately, many new users have chosen to leave the forum, disappointed by the harsh responses. We can't afford this.

Best regards,

Hello, Actually, if insulting and disrespectful messages were removed, new users would find interesting things to read. They wouldn’t flee. If the option is to close every discussion where there are / too many (how much is "too much"?) disrespectful messages, then we should reconsider the "Miscellaneous" and "Travelers' Thoughts" sections, where it often turns into a free-for-all (understandably, since the point isn’t to share tips but personal opinions). That would be a shame: it’s mainly the disrespectful messages that bother people, very rarely the topics themselves. We should also think about what to do with forum members who have a knack for annoying, frustrating, dodging to better put others down, or attacking to avoid being questioned—all with a baffling egocentrism...

Best regards, Murielle

Le Figaro, for example, receives several million euros in subsidies to produce garbage...

Is this showing politeness and open-mindedness? Is this respecting a newspaper and its readers?

Journalists often haven’t set foot there, they copy each other, or write articles using ChatGPT...

What are your sources for making such claims?

Is this showing politeness and open-mindedness? Is this respecting a journal and those who read it?

What are your sources for making such statements?

It's too bad you don't realize this isn't about personalizing the exchange to continue the closed discussion... But rather about broadening the reflection on the usage modalities of the lock... without, of course, encroaching on the administration's prerogatives, which, naturally, cannot be discussed.

Le Figaro, for example, receives several million euros in subsidies to produce garbage...

Be careful what you write—it’s borderline defamation against a media outlet. You could be held legally responsible for that...

Personally, I really like how the moderators on this forum manage discussions. It's the first time I've seen a certain freedom of tone being accepted, which seems like a good option to me and allows members to express their differences in their own way. The opposite—"groupthink"—meh, not great. I also think, seeing that some people want to "tighten the screws" and penalize anything that goes off track, that this proposal is a double-edged sword. Because if moderators, while staying impartial, focus on who’s going off track or who’s being disrespectful to another member first, the boomerang effect would kick in I also notice (and this is personal) that I’ve often been criticized for writing too much, talking too much, or for the few travel anecdotes I’ve shared. The people making these criticisms are everywhere in discussions, opening blogs, creating travel journals, etc. (which isn’t my thing). It’s always the same old story of the shoemaker with bad shoes or the beam in one’s own eye that they refuse to see I’ve only been here for two months, even if the person who dug up my old username with the intention of hurting me got it wrong —you can see my old messages where everything was fine because no one was attacking me. I really like how this forum is managed, even if I admit I’m bothered daily by some people pushing for a fully repressive approach (probably the same ones who click the "report" button for ages )

Le Figaro, for example, receives several million euros in subsidies to produce garbage...

Be careful what you write—it’s borderline defamation against a media outlet. You could be sued for that...

The French justice system doesn’t mess around! I even got PMs telling me I risked a lawsuit and that one was coming my way.

I offer my sincerest apologies to Le Figaro (mentioned randomly), to the forum, and to all members. On that note, deleting my account—you self-righteous folks threatening me with lawsuits over a post says a lot about your worldview...

Goodbye. Or maybe see you in court. 🙁

Hi Rudov,

You posted a discussion in "Miscellaneous"; in any case, it was placed there—or moved there—I’m not sure.

As such, a discussion in "Miscellaneous" is, by nature and by initial choice, outside the scope of travel advice, stories, recommendations, good addresses, or tips. It’s different from discussions posted under a destination like "Afghanistan" or a theme or travel style. You didn’t post those videos to get travel advice about Afghanistan, did you? Some travelers go there, but the videos themselves aren’t about travel—they’re reports on the country... which can invite controversy.

I’m skeptical that it would scare anyone off when it gets more detailed and turns into a verbal sparring match between members who’ve been interacting here (or sometimes elsewhere) for about 20 years. The debates in question didn’t seem to turn into condemnation, let alone insults, at least from what I read. It’s normal for moderation to close the discussion if they feel it’s become pointless, exhausted, and no longer adds value to the site—and they don’t want to spend all night on it.

As for questions, requests for information, or new members, I do my best to respond when I’m knowledgeable or have a clear opinion. These questions, requests, and new members’ contributions have become much rarer. Is it because some were poorly received or treated harshly? It’s possible, of course, though it didn’t stand out to me. But the real reason is ChatGPT and similar tools. The expertise of a destination specialist or someone knowledgeable about administrative or legal aspects has become less necessary—people find answers elsewhere.

Michel

I had actually posted in the Afghanistan section, but the site sent me an email saying it was moved to "Miscellaneous"...

PS: Stop sending me PMs telling me I could be sued for defamation. I get it—don’t mess with the media! It’s crazy how there are things you can’t say or do. If someone had told me I’d be threatened on VoyageForum! 😮

I had indeed posted in the Afghanistan section, but the site sent me an email saying it was moved to miscellaneous...

Ah, okay. That means moderation didn’t see your post under "destination" but under "miscellaneous."

ps: stop sending me PMs saying I could be sued for defamation. I get it—don’t mess with the media!

I didn’t send you any PMs.

Unbelievable how there are things you can’t say or do. If someone had told me I’d be threatened on VoyageForum!😮

I’ve had death threats in the distant past. Keep cool 🙂

Michel

but the real reason is called ChatGpt

Not sure about that.

ChatGpt gave me some major nonsense every time I asked it something...

Maybe for basic stuff, but otherwise, it's not quite there yet!

ChatGpt kept giving me total nonsense every time I asked it...

Maybe for basic stuff, but otherwise, it's not up to par !

ChatGpt is helpful when you already know the answers yourself and can correct and guide it, but people tend to take it at face value and rely on it too much. It gets a lot of things wrong.

"VoyageForum was founded by Luc Vandal, a Quebecer passionate about travel. He launched the site in 2000, initially as a personal project to help travelers exchange practical tips. Luc Vandal managed the site himself for a long time, actively involved in moderation, improving features, and building relationships with members. He’s known for promoting an independent, community-driven vision of travel, far from purely commercial or traditional tourism. The forum then grew in the 2000s and 2010s, becoming a must-visit spot for French-speaking travelers, especially those backpacking or going on round-the-world trips. If you want, I can look up what became of him or if he’s still involved with the site."

ME: Yes.

"Here’s what I found about Luc Vandal, VoyageForum’s founder, and his journey after creating the site:"

🎬 Luc Vandal after VoyageForum

After his online start with VoyageForum, Luc Vandal moved into the film industry as a producer based in Quebec. He claims over 30 years of experience in cinema film.ru+10Films du Québec+10Cinoche+10. In March 2012, he joined the team at Production de la Coop Vidéo in Montreal, a cooperative of screenwriters, directors, and technicians promoting auteur cinema within Quebec’s emerging scene Cinoche+2Cinoche+2Films du Québec+2. Since then, he has produced or co-produced several notable films in French Canada, including: YearTitle2022Bungalow2020La déesse des mouches à feu2016Les mauvaises herbes2011–2017Films like Le problème d’infiltration, Marécages, Romaine par moins 30, Another Silence, Liverpool Cinoche+6Cinoche+6film.ru+6 He’s still very active in this field as of 2023, notably producing Bungalow as a French-language film "

ME: Are you kidding me?

Not at all—and I get why you’re surprised. It’s true this can be confusing: there are two people named Luc Vandal, but they’re not the same. Thanks for pointing that out; it’s important.

Michel

What I'd really like is for everyone to stop trotting out the same old clichés that don’t mean anything—you know, the self-righteous, sheep-like, groupthink stuff.

It makes me feel like I’m talking to Francis Lalanne, and that doesn’t inspire me—like, not at all!

So, I’d really appreciate it if you could expand your vocabulary and step off the beaten path. 🙂

I’d rather trust my own research than a bot that’s still pretty poorly informed.

Plus, some of its answers come off as a bit too "American."

What I'd really like is for everyone to stop coming out with the same old clichés that don’t mean anything at all—like "well-meaning," "sheeple," "groupthink," etc.

What do you mean by "groupthink" exactly? I’d love to know. How do you precisely define this way of thinking? Is there a manual for it? To me, "groupthink" doesn’t mean anything significant—it’s just another buzzword.

So I’d appreciate it if you’d expand your vocabulary and step off the beaten path. 🙂

What does "stepping off the beaten path" even mean? Again, it’s an expression everyone uses, especially when creating travel journals. There isn’t a single travel journal or discussion thread that *isn’t* titled "off the beaten path." You need to develop your argument further.

At this point, I feel like I’m talking to Francis Lalanne, and it’s not inspiring me—like, not at all!

Sorry, but I don’t listen to this guy—I just know he had one or two hits. I prefer listening to France Culture programs. That said, I’ll rush to check him out now.

And it's the same Attila who, without knowing my life, tells me to integrate into society as if I weren't already part of it. 😄 As for those travel journals where practically none venture off the beaten path, the stories are almost hour-by-hour, day-by-day accounts of their stays (basically just diaries), and yet they’re the ones saying I talk too much. 😄 And then there’s Marie-Chantal, who calls me a liar without any proof when I share my actual off-the-beaten-path travels—like guerrilla zones, swamps in narco territory, places no tourist has ever set foot (kind of like yours, Mathews). What’s up with these people who accuse others of their own behaviors? 😄

thanks Manon for enjoying my travel journals 🙂

I really hesitated to respond to your mixed-up message, because controversy isn’t my thing, but since there’s already been a reaction, I’ll chime in. I wonder who you’re addressing—should I feel concerned? And I don’t get the reference to F. Lalanne; I only know him by name, not his personal history. Do we need scholarly vocabulary to post on the forum? If so, it’ll be out of my reach—what a shame, I’d say. As for well-trodden paths, is it really necessary to travel to the ends of the Earth to meet that criterion? Anyway, it’s a message that needs deciphering.

what’s the "single thought" in your opinion? I’d really like to know. How exactly do you define this way of thinking? Is there a manual for this thought? To me, "single thought" doesn’t mean anything significant—it’s just another piece of jargon.

You should ask the people who use these expressions.

To me, it has a negative connotation. Whoever uses these expressions is telling others they’re idiots.

what does "stepping off the beaten path" mean?

It’s just a cliché that means being a little original.

I wasn’t.😅

I don’t listen to this person

No big loss.

I wonder who you're addressing,

To those who use the offensive expressions mentioned.

And I don’t understand the allusion to F. Lalanne

Phew, that means he’s been forgotten.

Rather reassuring.

Let’s just say he was a fan of the three expressions mentioned.

Do you need scholarly vocabulary to post on the forum?

I disagree with you because "blah blah blah" instead of "you’re a sheep" doesn’t seem like scholarly vocabulary to me. And it doesn’t have a pejorative connotation.

As for well-trodden paths, is it necessary to travel to the ends of the Earth to meet that criterion?

Not at all.

We want Voyage Forum to remain a travel forum where future travelers can find useful information, not insults.

[...]

With their scarlet red flag, you can see them coming from a mile away—those posters. 😕

[...]

This precious space for expression shouldn’t be threatened by those who confuse freedom of speech with logorrheic chaos.

It’s better this way.

Hey, is the "poutre dans l'œil" thing known in Canada? 😏