How do you feel about coming back to France?

Hi there, I’ve been traveling for 18 years now, at least 6 months a year, and as the years go by, I actually enjoy coming back to France more and more—a feeling I struggled with at first. I mean, we always think the grass is greener elsewhere. But in the end, I find meaning in that saying about how there’s no place like home. I still love traveling just as much, but now my trips are shorter, and I enjoy spending more time in our beautiful country, even though I don’t hesitate to criticize it. How about you? How do you handle coming back from your travels?

When you're in your home country and all you do is work, and then during vacation you're not working and living the good life, there's an undeniable and understandable post-vacation blues. What makes it worse is when the climate is more pleasant in your vacation destination.

Personally, after returning from Asia, I find myself faced with grim faces and rudeness instead of the politeness and smiles I experienced there. Let's be honest, I don't feel like coming back anymore.

When I was younger, it was different. After three weeks away, I had an irrepressible craving for steak-frites and good old French conversations.

I'm sure this discussion will bring very diverse opinions, given how varied everyone's mindset and personal situation can be.

Hi Jacques,

This is a really lovely old-school VF-style topic 🙂.

I won’t really talk about France—I actually go there very little, just driving cross-country or sometimes flying to reach a European base.

Your topic reminds me of the RN 164. The RN 164 was de Gaulle’s promise to the Bretons in Quimper, back in February 1969—a road from Rennes to the tip of Brittany, where I lived at the time. I was 2 years old when the promise was made. Over decades of travel, I’ve seen dirt roads turn into highways, major construction projects completed in six months, wide lanes as broad as runways with 130 km/h limits spreading across Eastern Europe. I’ve watched the world move forward, develop, improve. The RN 164? Still not finished. Construction drags on for ages, and as soon as one section is done, another gets torn up because it’s already outdated. So they limit, restrict, divert, ban, monitor. Clearly, the money went elsewhere. The will wasn’t there, nor the courage, I suppose. Cultural docility doesn’t help either.

Returning to Brittany always makes me sad, even though I know I’m doing it because I love my job—it excites and amuses me. But this grayness, this dull landscape with its poor palette of grays and greens, this passion for uniformity celebrated as the norm, this refusal of action, life, color. And that overwhelming sense of decline. Well, that’s my answer... 🙂

Michel

Hello, I’ve been traveling for 18 years now, at least 6 months a year, and as the years go by, I’ve come to appreciate returning to France more and more—a feeling I struggled with at first. Of course, we always think the grass is greener elsewhere. But in the end, I find meaning in that saying that you’re still pretty well off at home. I still love traveling just as much, but now my trips are shorter, and I enjoy spending more time in our beautiful country, which I don’t hesitate to criticize, though. How about you? How do you approach your returns from trips?

Hi! My returns to France are a real pleasure, especially for the food and the temperate climate. I’ve traveled quite a bit around the world (though I haven’t visited every country), but nothing beats French cuisine and the products we have here. Not being a cook at all, I still enjoy what I make, and it’s way better than in restaurants abroad or even in many French restaurants where the food really lacks flavor and originality.

Hello,

I’ve always loved departures. I’ve always loved returns. Except that I have to go back to work...

I enjoy coming home, my own food (especially if I’ve eaten out almost the whole trip), a bit of routine, and the quiet.

And then, coming back often makes me realize how lucky I am to have been born in France!

A democracy, a secular society, freedom for women, the ability to dress how you want, eat or drink what you want, no corruption at every street corner, no overwhelming crowds everywhere, a certain cleanliness, decent hygiene that means you don’t have to worry, easier access to quality healthcare even if you’re broke.

But also varied food, days that change with the seasons.

A country where it can snow, where the sun can set at 10 PM...

And then comes the moment when all this seems ordinary, when my legs get restless, when the urge to explore grips the little *franchouillarde* inside me...

Hello,

Since I usually only go away for 2 weeks, I don’t (yet) feel the urge to get back to my "home sweet home" at the end of the trip. On the contrary, I’d love to have one or two extra weeks to discover new places or spend more time in the ones I love. When I return, like Agnès, I’m even more aware of how lucky I am to have been born in France (except for the unpredictable weather and daylight hours 😏). Since I mostly travel to countries where the standard of living is (much) lower than ours, I find that people complain way too much (about everything and nothing), and personally, I put everyday hassles into perspective... for a few weeks. Then, routine kicks back in, and I start getting annoyed again over little things 😕 Before long, planning a new trip becomes a must (even if the trip never actually happens—no big deal, planning is a bit like traveling too 😎).

A democracy, an extinguished religion, freedom for women, dressing how you want, eating or drinking what you want, no corruption on every street corner, not an oppressive crowd everywhere, a certain cleanliness, decent hygiene that lets you not worry, easier access than elsewhere to high-quality healthcare even if you don’t have a dime.

You’re cracking me up: everything we’ve already lost or will soon lose 🤪

I think you should try traveling to a few dictatorships...

In Thailand, for example...

Go criticize their king like we criticize any politician here, and you’ll get a taste of the local prison hospitality...😎

Traveling to a country and living there are two completely different things.

Good evening Agnès,

You can’t put it like that. A monarch, a king, holds a special position for the nation—he is the "body of the king," consubstantial with the nation. In France, you’ve surely noticed that despite the monarchic ceremonies every five years, there’s no longer a monarch; nor is there a nation in the classic sense, as understood elsewhere in the world. Just a state to which an identity, now mourned, must submit.

I think what you’re really not grasping, by viewing the countries you visit through such a typically French, by-the-book lens, is that almost everywhere else, people have the immense comfort of knowing who they are—culturally, ethnically—of understanding their role and place in society, and having a higher power to turn to. Are they unhappier and more reliant on all sorts of psychotropics than the people of France, tossed between uncertain identities and suspended futures?

As we speak, two Belarusians are surely chatting over tea or an Olivier salad, and one is recounting her trip to France. Or Spain. She’s explaining that, in Minsk at least, everything is spotless—even the underground—you can trust the police, the country is well-run, life is calm, and maybe people should think twice before criticizing. And she’s glad her daughter, who went to Poland for a while to work on a Schengen visa for an online clothing company’s dispatch center, eventually came back—safe, at peace, and confident. And she couldn’t care less about the risks of doing politics or journalism in her country.

Michel

Hey Jack, In a setup similar to yours, my take is different; when I'm in Brittany—France, that is—it's out of necessity, even though I totally agree with Attila.

@Tatra

The moment the thread was posted, you were already drooling. And the follow-up didn’t disappoint.

Attila says exactly what she means, whether you like it or not, and there’s no need, once again, to belittle her as a "slow high-schooler" (we know you’re an expert). What she writes is common sense (oh my God, how awful!), the opinion shared by most, which deserves respect. If she mentioned Thailand, it’s because her conversation partner is comfortable there, but she could just as well have cited... Belarus (no need to pull the "divine right" card).

We know your sympathies for authoritarian regimes and your aversion to democracy and its core principles. We know your hatred for France, we see your identitarian streak, your yearning for ethnic and cultural purity, cleanliness, and we learn that in Belarus "you can trust the police."

almost everywhere, people have the immense comfort of knowing who they are, culturally, ethnically, knowing their role, their place in society, and having a transcendence to talk to.

I can talk to my ancestors and my descendants, but how do I "talk" to my transcendence?

But I thought you were already doing that by expressing yourself like in your travel journals.

Hi Jean-Luc,

You could have replied to me directly—no need to pretend you’re answering others .

Yes, what she’s saying is "common sense" in France, and it’s widely shared, by many, by most. Normal. That’s exactly what I meant with the example of the two Belarusian women, which I used because I’m thinking of someone specific. So I’m repeating the reactions and comments—a real example, not fiction.

We know your sympathies for authoritarian regimes and your aversion to democracy and its fundamentals. We know your hatred of France, we see you as identitarian, aspiring to ethnic and cultural purity, to cleanliness, and we learn that in Belarus "you can trust the police."

Come on, one time it’s my libertarianism that bothers you, another time, like today, you see me as a champion of state authority. I would’ve hoped you’d read calmly and without prejudice—prejudices you’ve admitted to—what I explain: I think people live better with a clear place in society, feeling clearly part of a nation, without having to access it through the staircase of universalism, without having to abstractly renounce their own, and with a religion.

If that shocks you, it’s still "common sense" for the vast majority of humans, even Europeans—any Pole, Czech, Slovak, Romanian, Hungarian, Dane, Swede, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Albanian, Serb, and so many others... would agree. I’m not talking about passports. A Hungarian in Romania *is*, *lives*, *sees* themselves as Hungarian. An Albanian from Kosovo *is*, *lives*, *sees* themselves as Albanian. No hesitation, no reservation—and so what?

And if I think and say that, in my opinion, France’s very serious problems right now—its decline in the world—stem from these fundamentals (a state first, a nation forged by force afterward), I could add that the changes to the concept of *laïcité* in the early 2000s didn’t help. Wouldn’t you be less bitter, by the way, if this observation of decline weren’t well-founded?

Michel

I’ll surely find one or two Brittany locals to badmouth the region.

But does that make them representative of all Bretons?

Back to Belarus— I don’t think I’m wrong in saying that more Belarusians flee their country for political reasons than French people flee France for the same reasons.

Same goes for Russians, etc...

Here’s a little article to wrap up this digression from the topic at hand.

I’m sure I’ll find one or two Britons to badmouth Brittany

Brittany... that little corner of France with questionable hospitality that still resists the dictatorship of the croissant 🥐?

@Tatra

Come on, one day it’s my libertarianism that tickles you, the next, like today, you see me as a champion of state authority.

Libertarian, state authority... Louis Sarkozy, get out of this body!

No, Agnès. The link you shared refers to a movement of around 200,000 people at the very start of the war in Ukraine—there was a context to it. At that time, there were indeed Russians and Belarusians in some countries. I saw it myself in Georgia and Kazakhstan. That’s over now; the vast majority have returned home. Over a significant period, there have been fewer departures from Belarus than from France. I know it’s tempting to think the opposite, but it’s not true—and I’m not making any judgment here. Just the facts.

But none of this really has much to do with travel return impressions anymore, so let whoever wants to dig deeper do so.

Michel

No, Agnès. The link you shared refers to a movement of about 200,000 people at the very start of the war in Ukraine—there was a context to it. At that time, there were indeed Russians and Belarusians in some countries. I saw it myself in Georgia and Kazakhstan. That’s over now; the vast majority have returned home. Over a significant period, there are fewer people leaving Belarus than France—I know, it’s tempting to think the opposite. But it’s not true, and I’m not making any judgment about it. Just the facts.

But none of this really has much to do with travel return impressions anymore, so let whoever wants to dig deeper do so.

Michel

good evening, you’re forgetting to mention how many French people who left to chase El Dorado come back disillusioned 🤪

Good evening Michel,

without me having any opinion on it. Just the facts.

I’m happy to consider the facts, but precise facts are better:

Over a significant period

How long is a "significant period" exactly?

the majority of them have returned.

What percentage of those who left does "the majority" represent?

there are fewer departures from Belarus than from France

Could you share the sources that gave you the numbers of people who left (and returned) from these two countries (obviously in relation to their populations) by year?

hi,

So a really nice topic in the old-school VF style 🙂.

I’d love to know why this topic is considered old-school...

She explains that, after all, in Minsk, at least everything is very clean, even the underground, you can trust the police, the country is well-maintained, life is calm,

you’d be living in Minsk or another country, well, you’d be forced to do assembly-line work in industry and work 50 hours a week. For a poverty-level salary.

Since you only remembered one figure from the article, here it is:

First elected in 1994, Alexander Lukashenko is running for a sixth term in 2020. The elections, marred by large-scale fraud, sparked a protest movement of unprecedented scale in Belarus’s history, which the regime gradually stifled through repression of exceptional magnitude. Since August 2020, over 40,000 Belarusians have been detained for one reason or another, and more than 3,000 cases of torture have been recorded. By May 2022, nearly 1,200 political prisoners were languishing in the regime’s jails. This is in addition to the shutdown of 550 NGOs, the banning of around a hundred media outlets, and the labeling of nearly 400 Telegram channels, blogs, or chats as "extremist." Anastasia Kostiugova, daughter of political analyst Valeria Kostiugova—arrested in June 2021 and imprisoned ever since—now serves as the communications manager for Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya. She sums up the situation in the country like this: "Before 2020, only a few opponents faced the regime’s brutality. Today, it’s everyone. If you haven’t been beaten yourself, you know someone who has; if you haven’t been to prison, one of your loved ones has. If you haven’t been fired from your job, you have friends who have."

This repression has driven a large number of Belarusians into exile. The scale of departures is hard to quantify. Depending on the source, estimates range from tens of thousands to 200,000 or even over 300,000 people, out of a population of about 9.3 million in the country.

Not a word about Ukraine, but rather the relentless grip of a dictator.

Good evening everyone...

I’ll try to sum this up; not sure discussing things like this in the abstract is a great idea, but let’s give it a go.

@Muriel18 A significant length of time is 10 years. Fewer Belarusians leave their country than French people leave theirs, proportionally speaking, of course. And most of those who do leave go to Russia. That’s just how it is; the idea that everyone who can flee a dictatorship does so is wrong—it’s not like that at all. Things are more complex than the media makes them out to be.

@Matthews

If you lived in Minsk or another country, you’d be forced to do assembly-line work in industry and work 50 hours a week for a pittance.

I don’t know where you got that from. Working hours *are* long, and Belarusians often work one Saturday a month without pay for "cleaning"—that part’s true. But they also earn a decent salary for the country, travel (often to Turkey or Egypt), and it’s not the poverty you’re describing. Do you know any Belarusians personally?

@Attila

Not a word about Ukraine, just the obsession with a dictator.

Your article is clearly activist; the regime is authoritarian, but you don’t seem to understand that most people there are okay with it, and Europe scares them more than it attracts them. Again... have you actually talked to any of the people involved?

Michel

Still the same poorly supported argument...

And yet most of them still leave for Russia.

Nope... It's in Europe...

An excerpt:

Emigration is identified as a major issue, toward the West (during the fall of 2023, it’s estimated that 200 to 350,000 Belarusians left for Europe) but also toward the East (over 60,000 Belarusians are working in Russia).

But you’ll probably tell me again that my sources are biased... Westernized?

But you’ll probably say my sources are biased again... Westernized?

A bit, yes, but mostly they’re about a specific context and moment, not a long-term trend. It turns out the idea of Belarusians fleeing the country like East Germans once fled the GDR is false; I’m not judging or even thinking about it, but that’s just how it is.

Michel

But they also have a decent salary for the country, travel often to Turkey or Egypt. Not the poverty you describe.

Hey, that’s a bit unfair. First, the average salary in Belarus is one of the lowest in Europe—barely 700 € a month. Text.

Plus, you’ve had the chance to get a decent education, go to university, and land a good job—something that isn’t the case for everyone in the world. At the end of the day, if you enjoy working on an assembly line, tightening bolts, and getting your hands dirty (I started my working life that way), that’s your call.

Still no source.

I suggest you change your username.

Pravda29, why not?

(The original is already taken.)

After Tatra isn’t so bad according to this article...😄

@Mathews The average salary is assessed in terms of purchasing power, not absolute value. I’m not saying salaries are high, but costs are low—especially rent, which might be the lowest in Europe relative to income. I’d say people there live overall like in Romania: income is lower, the cost of living is also much lower, but the standard of living seems quite similar. Do you know any Belarusians who say things like that? Young people in particular? Because when it comes to education and general knowledge, it’s a whole different story compared to France, huh! 🤪 You’ve got a lot of preconceived ideas...

@Atilla You’ll find the sources yourself, Agnès.

We’ve strayed a bit from the topic, but actually, not that much: I’m trying to explain that every nation tends to have a narrative that glorifies itself and downplays others, that we see the world through the lens of our ideology. Unless you take a lot of distance and step out of the frame, but that’s almost a job in itself.

Michel

A democracy, an extinct religion, freedom for women, dressing how you want, eating or drinking what you want, no corruption on every street corner, no oppressive crowds everywhere, a certain cleanliness, decent hygiene that lets you not worry, easier access than elsewhere to effective healthcare even if you don’t have a penny.

On the contrary, a religion on the rise that all our descendants will benefit from 100% in a few decades.

everything we no longer have or will soon lose

On the contrary, a religion that’s thriving and one that all our descendants will benefit from 100% in a few decades.

Can you be more specific?

You’ll know how to find the sources, Agnès

But I’m just a slow high-schooler. How do you expect me to dig up sources that even you can’t find?

Like all religions, the one you’re talking about will fade away.

In fact, it’s already fading.

The number of non-religious people is growing in the countries that export it, including among new French citizens.

What slows the movement down is "respect."

Respect for elders, for tradition. Fitting into the mold, not upsetting one’s family.

So people no longer believe, but they don’t come out for fear of offending or being abandoned by their own.

It took quite a while for homosexuals to come out—it’s hard to admit you’re different when you think you’re the only one.

This end is playing out in a bath of blood and fury. The beast lashes out before dying, and like any sect, it recruits those who are uncomfortable in their own skin.

It wouldn’t have anything to fear if it just lived its life quietly.

The same was true, by the way, for Christendom.

For sources, I’ll refer you to Tatra. He’s an expert.

Can you be more specific?

Since it’s already happened that some ill-intentioned people pulled this on me, I think when someone smart plays dumb, it’s not just that they don’t respect others—they don’t respect themselves either.

Hi there, I’ve been traveling for 18 years now, at least 6 months a year, and as the years go by, well, I actually enjoy coming back to France more and more—a feeling I struggled with at first. I mean, we always think the grass is greener elsewhere. Then, in the end, I find meaning in that saying that you’re still pretty well off at home. So I still love traveling just as much, but now my trips are shorter, and I enjoy spending more time in our beautiful country, which I don’t hesitate to criticize, by the way. And you—how do you handle coming back from your trips?

I forgot to mention—and it’s surprising no one else has—that it’s such a delight to be back in your own bed. The first two nights, I practically purr with comfort 😉

I also think that a long enough trip helps you handle the return to daily life better, and the benefits last for months.

As has happened before when ill-intentioned people have pulled this on me, I think that when someone intelligent plays dumb, it’s not only that they don’t respect others—but they also don’t respect themselves.

Maybe you’re misreading me, and I’m actually just dumb and kind-hearted.

No matter what someone’s ideas or beliefs are, isn’t it more respectable—both toward others and themselves—to name them clearly, own them, and engage in reflection with solid arguments? Rather than hiding them in cryptic remarks, then dodging the question when they’re simply challenged, and choosing a line of retreat to escape some imagined sneak attack?

And that intense feeling of decline.

Hi, what’s declining? Brittany?

with its poor palette of greys and greens

Really? Because Belarus has richer colors? The landscapes in Eastern Europe are pretty much the same—the difference is in the types of pine trees. You have a very baroque view of things.

And that intense feeling of decline.

Hi, what’s in decline? Brittany?

with its poor palette of greys and greens

Really? Because Belarus has richer colors? The landscapes in Eastern Europe are pretty much the same—what’s different are the types of pine trees. You have a very dramatic view of things.

France is doing just fine; it’s @tetras who’s not

Hello Mathews,

To avoid seeing that Brittany is in sharp decline, you’d have to have lived there three or four decades ago, and you’d have to not travel regularly to comparable territorial and cultural entities. Take Estonia, Slovenia, or Catalonia, for example. And I’m not even talking about Ireland, where the assets and constraints were particularly similar… only to end up several divisions apart. I’m not entirely sure who’s really to blame, but in terms of economy and quality of life, there’s a chasm that’s widened. You find it strange because you’re used to some kind of mythical, romantic narrative about Brittany, but living there is quite another story. Feelings of downgrading, loss of industry, withdrawal, and giving up on its industrial, productive, and export-driven vocation.

I never said Belarus was colorful. I was just using it as an example in a specific context—I don’t bring it up all the time.

Michel

All good, I’ll keep that in mind. Still, I won’t budge—everyone understood that. I grew up in a world tainted by the consequences of one dogma, and it’s hard to bear seeing it replaced by an even worse one.

About Brittany, I heard on the radio—I can’t remember the exact date, but it wasn’t long ago—that Brittany would be the most populated region in France by 2050. And also, a recent survey found that for 7 out of 10 French people, it’s the region where they’d like to live now or in the future. Can you guess why? ??? You might say we’re selling a dream.

Dreamy? I don’t know, but a kind of image and illusion, yes, definitely. We’re on a travelers’ forum: check out the affordable and convenient flight options available to Breton travelers, and you’ll already see things a little differently 😏. France’s most populated region? No, that’s impossible. The reason? I don’t know, I just don’t see it.

Michel

explore the affordable and convenient options available to Breton travelers for air service, and you’ll start to see things a little differently

Unless you live in the Paris region, air connections are usually either nonexistent, expensive, or both...

Never move to Auvergne...

And yet, people from Auvergne feel right at home there.

You’re really fixated on air travel as if it’s the be-all and end-all of choosing where to live.

For you, maybe, since all you think about is escaping your Breton prison, but for most people, it’s not like that.

France is doing just fine, it's @tetras who's not

The capercaillie, a bird of ill omen?

Feeling of downgrading, loss of industry, withdrawal, and abandonment of industrial, productive, and export-oriented vocation.

Sorry, but it’s clear you’ve never worked in industry. You listen to either CNews or guys like Charles Gave too much—they spout nonsense all the time. For one thing, Brittany isn’t just crêperies in Quimper or galettes from Pont-Aven. It also has major investments, especially on Île Longue, where there’s a nuclear submarine base. As for industry in France, I’m not making this up—it’s INSEE data: 322,386 companies, 1,544 € billion in turnover, and 368 € billion in added value. So, the bad faith only goes so far.

About Brittany, I heard on the radio—I can’t remember the exact date, but it wasn’t recent—that Brittany would be the most populated region in France by 2050. .

What’s happening across France is that the interior is emptying out, and the population is "migrating" toward the coasts. The same thing happened in the U.S., where people moved to Sun Belt states like Florida or California. Why Brittany? Because real estate there is still relatively affordable compared to Languedoc-Roussillon or the PACA region.

Sorry, but it’s obvious you’ve never worked in the industry. You listen to either CNews or guys like Charles Gave too much, who spout nonsense all the time. For one thing, Brittany isn’t just crêperies in Quimper or galettes from Pont-Aven—it’s also major investments, particularly on Île Longue, where there’s a nuclear submarine base.

I’d rather not comment on what you’re saying; you don’t know who you’re talking to, and it’d almost be funny if it weren’t so off-base. If there’s one thing Bretons would be happy to do without, it’s the Île Longue base, which is seen mostly as a risk with no real benefit.

Michel

In Clermont-Ferrand, you're just two hours' drive from LYS Lyon. So if you want, compare it with Brest and Rennes, or even Nantes. It's not the same in terms of opening up to the world. It's not an obsession—this is a travel forum, after all! 🙂 People who never leave Brittany and can't compare might feel fine; I know lots who never go beyond Rennes. But once you've gotten a taste for the world, it's unbearable.

Michel

Choosing Brittany was because of climate change—if there’s a heatwave, it starts later than in other regions and ends earlier. That’s the main reason. As for real estate, it’s very expensive, especially within 20 km of the coast and along the RN 165. The fact that the airports are out of the way doesn’t affect the desire to live in Brittany at all.

Yeah, real estate is expensive in Brittany near the coast, but inland it costs next to nothing. You can buy a house for less than 50,000 €. Sure, there’s often some work to be done though.

The fact that airports are out of the way doesn’t change the desire to live in Brittany at all.

Run a few price simulations, and we’ll talk about it again. There aren’t actually any real airports—just a shuttle airport with an Air France monopoly for very expensive flights, and seasonal low-cost flights to summer tourist spots like Porto, Marrakech, Agadir... Yes, yes, there are houses for less than 50,000 €, even under 40,000 €. Come live here . They’re mostly bought by working-class English people who live there very roughly, with dogs and horses. Or by Roma or people breaking away from big cities who get subsidies from the towns to stay under the radar.

As for climate change, that’s a bit of a strange explanation; I don’t think it’s very relevant.

Michel

Try to explain your comment about climate change—why is it strange and irrelevant?

Ethnic change is clearly happening faster than climate change. The latter has taken a pause at the moment: it’s not very warm in France.

Ethnic change is clearly faster than climate change. The latter has currently paused: it’s not particularly hot in France.

Now that we’ve clarified our intentions (see messages 32 and 36), I’ll repeat the question you, as the vigilant watcher of VF’s life, good comrade, expansive, and rather affable, seem to be dodging:

Can you be more specific?

In this wonderfully vintage VF-style thread, there are messages crossing paths without ever meeting, slightly condescending compulsive monologues, carefully cultivated postures, a sugary tone that fools no one—or maybe it does—obsessions creeping forward softly without anything to stop them...

Everyone comes as they are, and everyone leaves as they please. And vice versa.

So... what’s there to fear in saying things outright rather than hinting at them?