Back from Georgia and Armenia in a van

Just back from Georgia and Armenia. Trip in April 2011 with a small Renault Trafic van. No particular difficulties... except the GMR.

Uh, approximate title. Actually, the Caucasus and the borders of eastern Anatolia: Iran, Iraq, Syria. If you need any info, don't hesitate!

Hi BB31,

Could you tell me what "sauf la GMR" means? I’m planning to visit the country in September.

Best regards,

JPP

Georgian Military Road.

Michel

Hi everyone,

Thanks, Michel, for the info. Is this the road also known as the GMH Georgian Military Highway? What’s the issue with this road I’m planning to take? Road conditions, checkpoints, corrupt cops, safety?

Thanks in advance. JPP

Unfortunately, I can't tell you more about it.... Others will come along. 🙂

Michel

More detailed story on trafic-aménagé....in the travelers' corner section....Borders of...

That’s really interesting—where is it?

Michel

Well, exactly.

Hi everyone, Like Michel, I’m looking for where the travel journal can be read.

Thanks in advance.

JPP

Hello Bernard and Sylvie,

Thank you for your excellent account of your trip to the Caucasus.

I took the liberty of extracting a few sentences that raised some questions for me—feel free to answer them or not. I won’t hold it against you.

In the morning, after exchanging thanks and addresses, he hands me his card: police officer, head of military security in Batumi.

Is it possible to get this address?

Arrival at the homestay spotted on a Canadian motorcyclist’s blog. A closed courtyard facing Georgia’s most visited site: over 30 years of traveling in a camper van, never such a perfect bivouac.

Is this address available?

On the descent toward Kazbegi, 18 km before the Russian border, a police checkpoint. Sylvie asks the skeptical officers and a security officer: what are these French people doing in the middle of a military operation? Sylvie is furious: "You didn’t tell me Kazbek was such a dangerous area." True. Winter 2011. Russian airborne troops attack Chechen fighters who had taken refuge in the Pankisi Valley in Georgia. Several killed. Some of these fighters later moved to Ingushetia and the Kazbek massif. The area has recently become sensitive, as Georgia no longer wants to be accused by Russia of serving as a rear base for Chechen terrorists.

But what’s even more dangerous are the avalanches—7 deaths on this road in 2010.

Your story hasn’t put me off visiting this region. Are there any precautions to take?

While running errands, we meet a UN official: "Visiting from France, it’s incredible. I’d like to invite you to visit the refugee camp where I work."

Is this address available?

Finally, a horseman. I ask him for directions to the monastery, and he laughs: "Here, it’s Azerbaijan; Georgia is behind you." In short, we’re driving in Azerbaijan without a visa or vehicle authorization documents. At the very least, a diplomatic incident. Immediate U-turn, heading northwest, and we find sheep and an Azerbaijani shepherd.

How can we avoid this kind of mishap, which could have had serious consequences?

At customs, the chief, in Russian: "novy rino" I take a moment to understand he means new Renault. "Niet, stary rino" We check his list of utility vehicles imported into Armenia and find a... Swiss Vivaro that entered in 2009. First vehicle registered in the database—long formalities before Yerevan gives the green light.

Is this just curiosity, or a requirement for entering Armenia? (Vehicle registered in the databases.)

Or we learn that the Vale checkpoint is closed. We take the route through Akhaltsikhe, even further west.

Great idea: I was planning to go all the way to Batumi. But the map shows Akhaltsikhe to the east of Vale.

What about the Akhalkalaki/Ardahan/Kars route?

Thanks in advance.

Jean-Pierre Pillot

03 45 62 60 83

Vice President

Camping-Cars on the Silk Roads and Around the World

jean-pierre.pillot@neuf.fr

www.camping-car-monde.fr

Hi Jean-Pierre,

Happy to answer your questions.

BATUMI: the police chief wants to remain anonymous. He’s a friend of "Micha."

MTSKHETA: at Gulo MEREBASHVILI’s place. 4 or 5 rooms, but it’s a pedestrian zone—cars allowed with a permit, but no RVs. Big parking lot behind the cathedral.

GMR: NO PROBLEM in the summer. Don’t skip it! Roads have been redone, thousands of tourists head up to Sioni and the monasteries above Kazbegi. Gorgeous hikes toward Mount Kazbek. In Kazbegi, dozens of homestays. However, the road to Vladikavkaz is impossible.

UNHCR camp: coming from Gori, a few kilometers before MTSKHETA, on the left. As long as you’re not acting like a voyeur, unaccompanied visits are no problem.

ARMENIA Customs: for us, retaliation because I refused insurance by showing my MAIF certificate in English. Border post: it’s Aktas that’s closed, not Vale.

VALE-KARS road is very smooth, pass at 2,500 meters.

About Azerbaijan, sorry, I didn’t understand the question. But we ran out of time for Baku: the embassy in Tbilisi issues visas without a LOI in 3 days. And without a CPD, you can drive your vehicle for 72 hours—but no longer. Same for Iraq: they’d let us into Kurdistan but required swapping the camper van’s plates. Visa is free for French citizens. But we only had 3 weeks off.

Hi Bernard and Sophie,

Thanks for all this info.

About Azerbaijan, sorry, I didn’t understand the question. How to avoid ending up in Azerbaijan unintentionally?

The embassy in Tbilisi issues visas without a LOI in 3 days. And without a CPD, you can drive your vehicle for 72 hours. But no longer.

LOI: ? The Automobile Club website doesn’t list Azerbaijan among the countries requiring a CDP. ? JPP

Hi there,

To avoid getting lost, always follow the track shown in the photo. Otherwise, a marital crisis is guaranteed: Sylvie: "Great, we spent hours wandering the steppe and missed the monastery."

LOI: official Letter of Invitation for the visa. I can confirm about the vehicle. April 2011, Tbilisi, met an English couple returning from Baku with their 4x4. They did the round trip in 72 hours; otherwise, you have to leave a deposit of several thousand euros at the border. Same info from a Bulgarian—3 days or a deposit. Both recommended crossing the customs at Sheki.

But things change so quickly...

Testimonial about the Georgian welcome at the homestay mentioned above:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkboey_tbilissi-2011-2_travel

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkbo85_tbilissi-2011_travel

A really great encounter, in the spirit of VoyageForum.

Someone pointed out that the title isn’t very precise. This trip took place mostly in Asia Minor.

Right, here are a few images from the route after the Caucasus:

1 Armenia-Anatolia crossing 2 Doğubayazıt 3 Mount Ararat 4 Iran-Turkey military road 5 Iraq-Turkey border post 6 Nusaybin, along the Syrian border 7 Şanlıurfa 8 Cappadocia 9 Sultanhanı 10 Konya

Actually, these are the Anatolian borders. Still getting the hang of VoyageForum—maybe I should’ve titled it: return from Georgia, Armenia, and Anatolia by van.

Final note on the mini-van’s fuel consumption: exactly 716 liters of diesel for 10,530 km, with over a third of that at altitudes between 1,500 and 2,600 m. Average of 6.8 L/100 km. And of course, Class 1 at tolls and on the ferry. Hard to beat that unless you're on a bike.

Hi there,

1 Armenia-Anatolia crossing

This pass is close to Georgia, south of Posof. Unless you're referring to the crossing from the Anatolian plateau to the Armenian high plateau (which is further west, though)?

Perfect. It's just past the Vale checkpoint since Aktas was closed. I'm impressed.

Perfect. It's just after the Vale post since Aktas was closed.

So we agree: it's the Turkey-Georgia border (the wording "Armenia-Anatolia crossing" could be confusing)

Hello,

Is this Aktas Lake post still open? It does exist, but it's so remote...

Michel

Hi Michel,

I don’t know anything about it; I had a quick look last year as an option for the overland route from Georgia to Turkey, but the only thing I saw was Posof. The Aktas border post must be a bit like Kurtkale—you’ve got to find it first.

Tried in April—road was new, signage was up, but the station was closed.

Any updates since?

Thanks.

Since when?

I’d be happy to look up the answer. 🙂

You both seem familiar with VF. I’ve been asked for the link to the photo road book. It was posted on a site for camper van enthusiasts, but the VF mods seem to have deleted it. Yet it’s a mutual-help site, not commercial. Is that the norm here?

Aktas post, it must be a bit like Kurtkale, you first have to find it.

Finding it is easy—it’s well before Kurtkale, and you might even stumble upon it if you forget to turn left. But that doesn’t tell me if it’s open. There were plenty of buildings and roads, but it was deserted.

Michel

but that doesn’t tell me if it’s open

But I don’t know and don’t know how I could find out... Other than going there....

But I don’t know and don’t know how I could find out... Apart from going there....

The question was actually for everyone... 😉

Michel

Hi,

Links to other discussion forums are not allowed.

It is prohibited to display or advertise in a member profile or signature a site where a product or service is offered or a site that contains a travel discussion forum.

http://voyageforum.com/v.f?do=conditions;

Michel

Thanks, I’ve got the explanation now.

My sincerest apologies for the huge delay—here’s the photo travel journal at last!

http://sdrv.ms/QBhbla

I didn't know that

Hi 😏

In Stories in 12 Images, we’ve added 3 sites we particularly enjoyed: Ananuri Batumi Mtskheta. No big revelations, just a modest confirmation of the Caucasus’s cultural riches:

Stories in 12 Images http://sdrv.ms/VaVgId

Best, Sylvie and Bernard

Hello,

We had planned to travel from Montpellier to Lake Baikal in April, May, and June, but I’ve got a minor eye issue, and by the time it’s "fixed," we’ll only have May and June left to travel in our Pilote camper van (less sporty than yours 😉, but with a combined 136 years between us, a bit of comfort is a must 🙂 ).

So, we’ve decided to do a trip we’ve wanted to do for a long time: Turkey—just passing through—then Georgia and Armenia. On the way back, Georgia again and Turkey.

1 - It seems there are no longer any ferries connecting Italy to Turkey. At least, I haven’t found any, which means we’ll have to cross through Greece (we know the Igoumenitsa-Istanbul route and up to Doğubayazıt from our 1996 trip to Pakistan in a 4x4 with a roof tent).

2 - Where do you think is the best place to enter Georgia, given that the Turkey-Armenia border remains stubbornly closed?

3 - Do you think 60 days is reasonably enough for this route?

4 - What maps would you recommend for Georgia and Armenia (other than IGN)? As the co-pilot, I remember some *humorous* remarks and marital crises during our trip to Bulgaria, thanks to IGN maps being, shall we say, *highly imaginative*.

5 - Hoping that in May/June we’ll have better weather than what you encountered....😛

Thanks for your replies.

Hi Catherine,

I’m so sorry you can’t go to Siberia. I hope it’s just postponed until 2014. On our site, you’ll find our wanderings in Armenia. The ferries to Turkey only run in the summer. Check with Euromer for details. Armenia and Georgia are two Christian countries surrounded by Muslim nations. This shows how deeply these two peoples are attached to their land. So, it’s a very enriching trip with warm, oriental hospitality. See you soon,

Brigitte

Hi Catherine, Brigitte,

Sylvie’s busy, so I’m answering. In my own way—short and sweet

Excellent idea! Really. For at least 3 reasons: 1. Since Armenia dropped its visa requirement, no paperwork at all. None! And if you book your tickets with Ancoma like we did, you leave whenever you want, on your own schedule. Change your plans last minute? No problem! 2. All the way to Hopa, the Georgian border, it’s practically all dual carriageway. Turkey’s concrete lobby has walled off the Black Sea coast. Ugly! 3. 60 days in May and June—pure bliss. Perfect weather, fruits, veggies, flowers everywhere. And Georgian cuisine is hands-down the best in the Caucasus.

Two downsides: 1. The price of diesel in Turkey. 2. Road conditions can be rough in Georgia and Armenia.

Greece? Igoumenitsa-Alexandroupoli, the highway’s finished. You can catch the ferry to Istanbul in a day. I drive old-school—maps and compass . We had the Freytag Caucasus map, which was pretty mediocre.

We only had 3 weeks. Two regrets: 1. Armenia: not making it all the way to Iran, to Meghri. Especially since there’s a brand-new road from Kapan (off-limits to Iranian trucks) that avoids the Tastun Pass at 2,500m. 2. Eastern Anatolia: the Ardahan-Kars region. Wild, stunning. And following the Arax River to the Azerbaijani enclave of Nakhchivan.

Best, Bernard

Hi there,

Hope your health issues clear up soon. The gateway to Georgia is Batumi. You should visit at least once—it’s a fascinating city for many reasons. There are other routes, but the roads are rougher (according to a group of friends who took them last year). For road maps, we used IGN and Freytag & Berndt, but I’ve heard Gizi maps are also great—they usually are. Road maps are essential in these countries because road signs on the ground are almost nonexistent or in the local "hieroglyphics"! We used the Petit Futé guidebook. 60 days is the perfect amount of time, especially if you plan to visit Nagorno-Karabakh. It’s amazing to visit a country that doesn’t officially exist! Stepanakert is easy to access. Let me know if you’d like more info. Cheers,

Brigitte

Thanks Bernard and Brigitte for your replies.

Brigitte, I just read your blog. So 61 days is doable.

Bernard, based on your info, our plan is starting to take shape:

- Ancona to Igoumenitsa by ferry. - Igoumenitsa to Istanbul (1 day, you said—that’s perfect). - Istanbul to Kars, following the Black Sea coast.

I’m estimating about a week to 10 days to get "ready to roll," which is roughly the same as the route through Serbia and Bulgaria that you took, Brigitte—11 days for you. We’ll need to look into this more closely... What are the advantages compared to the "classic" route through Turkey? The price of diesel? Anything else?

I’m going to buy the Freitag Caucasus map, which will at least let us plan a route for Georgia and Armenia before we leave (we rarely stick to it, but hey 🙂).

Return via Turkey and Cappadocia.

Bernard, I’ll check out your suggestion to follow the Araks River to the Azerbaijani enclave... I have no idea where that is 😛.

Anyway, thanks to both of you.

Hi,

We went through Serbia, but we won’t do it again—it wasn’t worth it compared to the route through Greece. I think there are ferries to cross the Black Sea and arrive in Batumi, either from Romania or Ukraine. That could be a good solution to avoid going through Turkey twice, especially if you’ve already been there! Cheers,

Brigitte

Yes, we’ve been to Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, and Ukraine... (we loved Romania and Ukraine, unlike Bulgaria, which we didn’t enjoy at all).

On the other hand, we don’t know Turkey well—just passed through quickly on our way to Iran and Pakistan.

Yes, we know Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, and Romania, as well as Ukraine... (we loved Romania and Ukraine, unlike Bulgaria, which we didn’t like at all).

On the other hand, we don’t know Turkey well at all—just passed through quickly on our way to Iran and Pakistan.

Hi there! 🙂

For those planning a trip to the Caucasus, maybe you'll find some useful info in our Georgia-Armenia travel albums.

Short stories, 24 commented images. Just the essentials 😉

BATUMI, GORI, TBILISI: https://plus.google.com/photos/104801826254076873321/albums/5883362631244423377?hl=fr&partnerid=gplp0

G.M.R, ANANURI: https://plus.google.com/photos/104801826254076873321/albums/5883363059742858337?hl=fr&partnerid=gplp0

MTSKHETA & Azerbaijani steppes: https://plus.google.com/photos/104801826254076873321/albums/5883363422473521009?hl=fr&partnerid=gplp0

ARMENIA: https://plus.google.com/photos/104801826254076873321/albums/5885185842203687185?hl=fr&partnerid=gplp0

Best regards, Sylvie & Bernard

hi

I’m worried—I don’t see your comments on the forum anymore. And I used to read them all. Especially since I’m heading to Turkey this year

Hi 😏

14 years later, back to this 2010 road trip! It was less than 2 years after the war with Russia.

At the time, I was working, so the trip report was really incomplete. Vague dates, missing photos, poorly framed ones, confusing texts, oversights, approximations, no maps ....... 😕

We took the time to redo everything! We made 5 travel journals summarizing this Caucasus trip.

1. GEORGIA



2. Georgian Military Road



3. MTSKHETA, AZERBAIJAN



4. ARMENIA, Yerevan



5. ARMENIA, Gyumri



Of course, it’s impossible to post all 130 pages of this update here. The full trip report is shared online:

CAUCASUS

Other trips we’ve shared on VF have the same issues. We’re taking the time to correct them 😏

Best regards, Sylvie & Bernard