It seems to me that poverty would be less painful in the sun

"It seems to me that poverty would be less painful in the sun" wrote Aznavour...

Not sure...😕 Who can prove that people in hot countries are happier than others? What do you think?

Is it better to live in Montpellier than in Lille? Are the Pygmies happier than the Inuit? Are Canadians less happy than the people of Louisiana? Are there more French expats in hot countries?

And your travels? Do you choose your destinations based on the climate? Do you rejoice when a bit of sunshine appears?

When you see the images of the famine ravaging Somalia, I don’t think hot countries are any happier... Over the past century, it’s still the sunny countries that have paid the heaviest toll: Biafra, Ethiopia, Sudan, Somalia—to name just a few!

A recent study on expatriation shows that 42% of French expats are in Western Europe and 13% in North America and Canada. Francophone Africa, North Africa, and Central and South America only account for 18%!

The appeal of sunshine is mostly sought after for leisure... even if, in daily life, it’s still nicer to have sunny weather!

That said, personally, I consider the climate before choosing a destination. It’s not the deciding factor, but I do take it into account! And I wouldn’t have left France to move to a Nordic country or one with a winter that lasts six months! That’s for sure! But it’s not by chance... I spent my first 20 years in Africa—it leaves its mark! 😎

Interesting debate!

When we talk about hot countries, we need to consider the economic level and cost of living in that specific hot country... Not all hot countries are economically similar.

For example, right now it's 35°C in Miami and 35°C in Marrakech. And you could say that winter is quite mild in both cities.

I know both places well and I live in Marrakech. I'm really happy living here... and I'm not sure that for the same space, I'd pay the same rent in Miami as in Marrakech. 😐 ... same goes for restaurants or taxi rides. So I can conclude that "my struggle is easier in the sun of Marrakech... but would be much harder under the Miami sun!"

On the other hand, in Kita, Mali, I assume I could pay very reasonable rent. 😉

In that case, if we bring it back to France, can we deduce that it's better to live on 10,000 € a month in Lille than on 1,000 € a month in Béziers? But it depends on everyone's needs... And it's clear that transfer requests are more common in the south 😐 Is it an illusion to think it'll be easier in the sun?

I think what does us good is a change in climate. Sick of the heat, bring on the rain. Sick of the cold, bring on the heat 😉

I won’t go that far, but I know two friends who are self-employed and could set up their practice wherever they wanted. One chose Oyonnax in the Ain department, the other settled in Antibes on the Côte d'Azur. I can assure you the one in the 01 makes more money than the one in the 06. This difference isn’t due to their skill level or professionalism—just the fact that the supply (and therefore the competition) is three or four times greater in the 06 than in the 01. And what about their quality of life? Who gets to enjoy the nice climate of the Côte d'Azur… and who has to go all the way to Mauritius for a bit of sunshine?

Hey, well shoot, what a nightmare, forced to leave for an island... lol Otherwise, the nice climate of the Côte d'Azur in the concrete jungle, meh... 😏

It’s Africans answering here ;) What about Canadians, Swedes, Irish folks, etc.?

Good evening, good morning, good night—I don’t even know what time it is anymore... 🙂

"It seems to me that hardship would be less painful in the sun" [...] people in warm countries are happier than others

What if "the sun" wasn’t so much about heat as it was about light?

And your travels? Do you choose your destinations based on the climate?

Yes. There are winter places, summer places, and familiar places for all four seasons...

Catherine

I think what does us good is the change in climate.

I feel the same way—temperate climates are the most pleasant and healthy. It’s no coincidence that the most developed countries are almost all in temperate zones. Friends from mainland France who live in Réunion (a tropical area) always choose to spend their holidays in mainland France during winter because the variation in temperatures is what they miss the most. Being hot all the time, especially when you’ve experienced something different, is tough. I guess being cold all the time, like the Inuit, is tough too.

It’s Africans responding 😉 What about Canadians, Swedes, Irish folks, etc.?

Hey Kate, Well, Scandinavians use light therapy to make up for the lack of sunlight—they even wear caps with built-in lamps, which really helps with morale... The hypothalamus releases a hormone that keeps us alert when natural light is strong, but as its intensity drops, the gland produces a sleep-inducing substance called melatonin.

Just to make a quick comparison between Nepal and France, I find that the poor seem less miserable in Nepal than in France... Getting RSA (minimum welfare) in Paris pretty much guarantees you’ll end up on the streets, with all that entails—likely death around the corner due to winter cold or a fight gone wrong. In Nepal, with the bare minimum—say, 1000 NPR (10 €)—it’s possible to survive, even if you’re living in a tin shack...

Obviously, these are two worlds that aren’t really comparable, and they differ in so many ways... Still, poverty feels less "harsh" in Nepal than in France. For starters, the climate’s different (no need for heaters in Nepal—it’s 20°C in Kathmandu in the afternoon during winter), and life isn’t the same (it’s chaotic, so you can pretty much do what you want). The compassion inherent in Hinduism/Buddhism, mutual aid, all that... it’s a big factor too.

Anyway... I don’t know if it’s just the climate, but it definitely plays a part.

Still, poverty is less "harsh" in Nepal than in France... The climate isn't the same to begin with (no need for a heater in Nepal, in Kathmandu it's 20°C in the afternoon during winter),

True, maybe poverty is more bearable there. But I don’t think the climate has much to do with it... Sure, some temperature-related needs are fewer (heating, warm clothes...), but you’re giving an example of solidarity that’s sadly disappearing in our country 😐 Still, according to a study by very smart experts 😉 the best quality of life would be in the Nordic countries... But is "quality of life" really synonymous with happiness? And according to another study by an *extremely* smart expert 😉 the happiest people would be Brazilians...😕

Good evening everyone,

I just feel like asking the question: what is happiness?

Sure, we hear about suffering through famines, epidemics, and endemic diseases mostly from so-called "developing" countries, but what about the "Great" industrialized ones?

But if you just ask the question, the answers probably won’t be that simple to give ;) Everyone has their own definition... And this debate might not belong here :/

I don’t know if this rotten summer in France will affect the responses from VF members in this country...

Who can prove that people in hot countries are happier than others?

A hot and dry climate? A hot and humid climate?

Both have their downsides—drought leading to famine (like the Horn of Africa, for example), while too much humidity creates conditions for poor sanitation and infrastructure challenges (India, for instance).

Scorching hot or sweltering hot?

A pleasant 30°C like an Italian summer 😎 or a brutal 45°C like August 1st in Dubai 🤪

Anyway, back to the topic—doubt poverty is any easier to bear in the sun😕

Is it better to live in Montpellier than Lille?

A Norman’s take: Montpellier for those who love the heat... Lille for those who prefer cooler weather.

But also Lille for those who enjoy long summer evenings (one extra hour of sunlight) and Montpellier for those who like longer winter days (one extra hour of sunlight...).

And your travels? Do you choose destinations based on climate?

Temperature often influences my choices: for long vacations, I prefer hot or even very hot countries. For shorter trips, the weather can be much colder...

But the destination itself matters too—I can’t picture going on safari in South Africa in July (brrr) because I associate Africa with heat. On the flip side, I’d love to visit Russia in the dead of winter because I’ve got this cliché of St. Petersburg under snow in my head...

Do you rejoice when a bit of sun appears?

A miracle—the rain stopped in Auvergne, and the sun’s peeking out... My mood’s shooting up!😉

That's exactly what I thought: you're a temperate girl 😉

It’s not common to talk about poverty in Western countries, and yet who can say they’re free of it? Sure, our social systems help... partially, but I still stand by the fact that it’s everywhere. Simply put, under the guise of living in industrialized—and thus wealthy—countries, we confuse "wealthy nations" with populations that are *assumed* to be wealthy. In reality, that’s not always the case!

As for happiness, can we really say Westerners are happy despite the abundance they’re believed to enjoy? 😉

The social system doesn’t heal emotional poverty... I find it more and more present where we live, and I don’t think the sun can fix that 😕 And I’ve met so many very poor people, especially in Africa, who showed such a joy for life and good humor that surprised me. I’m talking, of course, about countries where famine isn’t rampant.

it’s possible to survive, even living in a dump in prison...

Wow, that’s really rough—it’s like double the hardship!

Well, here’s what I was getting at: despite our own struggles like everyone else, seeing how things are elsewhere really puts things into perspective. With my 20 years of experience in community health, I can say today that—without calling it a "famine"—I’ve seen children die from hunger and malnutrition simply because it’s extremely difficult to convince parents of the need to change their eating habits, especially when the land allows them to grow everything.

Unfortunately, for countries like Somalia, while climate conditions are partly to blame, what about political choices?

Hi,

I really like Vanessa Paradis’s comeback 😏

Okay, okay, I’ll leave... 😕

(Interesting debate 😉)

Oh!? 😮 I didn’t know Vanessa had covered this song 😉

And your travels? Do you choose your destinations based on the climate?

Most of the time, yes! I like to travel light—really light—I’m not a fan of lugging a 20 kg backpack!! Except when I go to the mountains (Andes and Himalayas), but even then, never more than 10 kg! Under those conditions, it’s tough to visit the Inuit in winter. On the other hand, with the Kapsikis, who live naked, no problem… I don’t know if they’re happier than we are, but they sure seemed like it. Same with the Pygmies, the Bororos, the Kalingas, the Ifugaos, the Akkas, the Lisus, the Yaos, the Bugis, the Torajas, and many others… As I’ve said before, we’ll never be able to settle the question of whether so-and-so or such-and-such is happy—or even their whole tribe. The only way to know is to ask them, and sometimes the question doesn’t mean the same thing as it does for us!

Oh!? 😮 I didn’t know Vanessa had covered this song 😉

My comment wasn’t completely useless then 😛

Happiness depends above all on two main factors: one "external" (living conditions, health, material comfort), and you’re only focusing on that important factor—but there’s also the "internal" factor. This is what makes some individuals or even entire groups within the same tribe or clan feel happier than others under the exact same external conditions. In Western countries, we’re very extroverted, so we place more importance on external factors than, say, an Indian (well, the Indian people in general) would. They tend to rely more on their inner resources (spirituality) to face adversity, whereas in this area, Westerners (generally speaking) feel very isolated and helpless.

I’ll add that this extroverted nature is part of what’s driven our technological advancement ahead of more introverted cultures, which are more inwardly focused—hence their stronger spirituality (India being a prime example).

"It seems to me that poverty would be less painful in the sun" wrote Aznavour...

What if we (re)read it since it’s about travel?

TAKE ME ALONG (Charles Aznavour / Georges Garvarentz)

To the docks where the weight and the boredom Bow my back down The ships arrive with bellies heavy With fruit they’re crowned

They come from the ends of the earth Bringing with them Wandering ideas With reflections of blue skies Of mirages

Trailing a spicy scent Of unknown lands And eternal summers Where people live almost naked On the sands

Me, who’s known all my life Only the northern sky I’d love to wash away this gray By changing course, oh why?

Take me to the ends of the earth Take me to the land of wonders It seems to me that poverty Would be less painful in the sun

In the bars at dusk With the sailors around When we talk of girls and love A glass in hand, the sound

I lose track of things And suddenly my thoughts Lift me up and set me down In a wonderful summer On the shore

Where I see love stretching out its arms Like a madman running To meet me head-on And I throw myself into the embrace Of my dream

When the bars close and the sailors Return to their ships I still dream until morning Standing on the docks, my grip

Take me to the ends of the earth Take me to the land of wonders It seems to me that poverty Would be less painful in the sun

One fine day on a creaking raft From hull to deck To leave I’d work down in The coal hold, what the heck

Taking the road that leads To my childhood dreams To distant islands Where nothing matters But to live free

Where languid girls Steal your heart away Weaving, I’ve been told Those flower necklaces That intoxicate

I’d flee, leaving my past behind Without any regrets With no baggage and a heart set free Singing loud and clear

Take me to the ends of the earth Take me to the land of wonders It seems to me that poverty Would be less painful in the sun...

It's still really beautiful though... <3

As I’ve already said, we’ll never be able to settle the question of whether so-and-so or whatsit is happy—or even their whole tribe. The only way to know is to ask them, and sometimes the question doesn’t mean the same thing as it does for us!

So true! 😉 And I really think the question would be out of place 🤪

My input wasn’t completely stupid then 😛

It takes a lot more than that to dampen my good mood! The weather’s sunny and warm in Béziers right now 😛

The goal wasn't to ruin your mood!!! I'm a nice girl, really!!! 😇

How lucky, great weather in Béziers—here it's crappy 😕

A lighthearted song that I think owes its fame mostly to the music that goes with it...

"The people of the North Have in their hearts the sun they don't have outside."

Said Enricooooooo!

what is happiness?

It's hard to answer your question, but I still feel like everyone knows what we're talking about!

That’s tough for the author

Small joys exist, but absolute happiness doesn’t—that’s impossible...

It's still so beautiful... <3

Even more beautiful when it's Vanessa Paradis... but my favorite is still Joe le Taxi!

Chanson légère

Light as... happiness in the sun? Light as poverty... of others?

LOL A little lightness in this crazy world is nice, isn't it?

You're not gonna tell me otherwise, right?

LOL 😛

not absolute happiness, that's impossible.

Why? If I tell you I know absolute happiness, neither you nor anyone else could ever prove me wrong! The same goes for absolute misery, by the way. We know people who commit suicide, and afterward, people say things like, "It's unbelievable—they had everything to be happy!"

It's not possible—there's always a catch, or else you're living on cloud nine.

I have a lot of things that fulfill me in life, but I also have dark corners I have to live with.

Anyone who claims to only know the good stuff is a sweet dreamer.

Every stage of life has its joys and sorrows, no matter your age.

Oh no, I'm sure I know total happiness! Everyone tells me it shows on my face, too! But apparently, it's not possible in Belgium! Or at least, that's what I've been told!

Ok Jalma

LOL 🙂

And what if happiness was simply knowing how to enjoy everything life offers us? When life has confronted us with serious health problems, we learn to step back and savor the slightest break when the pain finally stops or when we regain a bit of independence! Yes, I affirm that happiness exists as long as we’re willing to welcome even the smallest good moment—we call that staying positive!

hi Geneviève you're absolutely right, we've got to stay positive! 😉 I think there are happiness genes—just like some people are born with blue eyes, some are born in a good mood and others are always grumpy! It doesn’t depend on material things at all... but that’s just my opinion! cheers francia

A way to be Proudly Small, bravo :P

See you soon, my friend

Yes, I affirm that happiness exists as long as we're willing to embrace even the smallest good moment; we call that staying positive!

Actually, it's like when you go grocery shopping at Carrefour: you stay positive!

We’re way off my original topic 😐, but like you said, I’m staying positive (though it’s tough at Carouf 🤪) because this post introduced me to members I don’t usually chat with 😉

Now, since you’re talking about happiness, my take is that there’s no magic recipe for it. On the other hand, I think the more crap you’ve been through, the more you appreciate the good moments—sometimes they’re just simple things... In life, there’s always another side to the coin...

And back to Aznavour, I think sunshine plays a big part in our good moods, us Westerners... But that doesn’t mean misery is any easier in the sun...😕

On the other hand, I think the more you've known hard times, the more you appreciate the good moments—sometimes they boil down to simple things... In life, there’s always the other side of the coin...

It’s like bad weather: the longer the rain lasts, the better the chance you’ll eventually see the sun (Breton proverb)

Are Pygmies happier than Inuits?

Hard to say, but a Pygmy who went on vacation to the Inuits might not be too happy!

* *** everyone tells me it shows on my face *** actually, in your avatar, you look radiant, and your kids and your friend do too.