No, I Won’t Be Going Back to China

Hello forum,

Did any of you feel the same things we did in China?

We spent a good twenty days there in August. First, we traveled solo around Chengdu, then joined an organized tour for 12 days (Beijing, Pingyao, Xi'an, Guilin, Xingping, Yangshuo, Shanghai, Wuzhen) and extended our stay by 4 extra days to visit Zhangjiajie.

The landscapes were stunning, and we have unforgettable memories... but we were really disappointed by the following points:

- The food: way too spicy. Lacking in flavor, not much taste. I’m speaking "in general" because we did enjoy some good steamed dumplings, smoked pork, and other dumplings... But compared to Thailand, Cambodia, or India, Chinese cuisine didn’t impress us at all.

- The behavior of the Chinese: disrespectful, rushed, agitated. You constantly have to fight—people push, crowd, and overwhelm you... At the entrance to the Terracotta Army (and other sites), it’s a human tidal wave... and I mean that literally. We were carried by the crowd without even touching the ground. It was like a situation where you have one bowl of rice and 20,000 starving people diving for it...

You’re at a ticket counter, and they cut in front of you. You’re in line for boarding, suitcase ready to go on the conveyor belt, and someone shows up out of nowhere to put THEIR suitcase down... even though they have a flight ticket with THEIR seat number and won’t be leaving before you!!!! You’re getting on the bus, and someone shoves past you just so they don’t end up behind you.

It’s like these people only think about themselves. I didn’t see a single person let someone else go first or even ask—it’s as if politeness and respect are completely foreign to them.

It’s honestly exhausting and draining...

- Communication: In every other country we’ve visited, whether in Asia or Europe, we always manage—with English, a few words of Italian, French, or Spanish. In China, I’ll be blunt: if you don’t speak Chinese, you’re screwed. And yet, a pair of kids around ten or twelve years old asked us in English where we were from :)

- Understanding: Here’s the rule. Even if the person you’re talking to speaks a little English and says they understand you... make sure they *really* do, because 9 times out of 10, they don’t. Out of pride or just cluelessness, they’ll give you a big smile and nod, but in reality, they didn’t get what you were saying.

Several times with our group, in the evening at a restaurant, if we hadn’t been helped by someone at another table who spoke a little English, we’d still be there. The classic example: the waiter brings one menu (for 10 people at the table), and we’re all trying to explain that we need 4 or more menus. Five minutes later, he’s still staring at us with that same blank smile...

In 3* or 4* hotels, you go to the front desk for a hot water or AC issue. Three or four staff members just stand there beaming at you. You try to explain with photos or a translator, but in the end, you leave with the problem unresolved.

They don’t speak—they shout... on buses, in hotels...

We were also surprised to find that self-service laundromats were almost nonexistent. We got scammed once at a hotel with an astronomical bill!

As for flights, we flew Air China on the way there and Austrian Airlines on the way back—no comparison. Air China had zero service and food that was "baby food" quality. Austrian Airlines had multiple services, a decent meal, and smiling flight attendants.

I don’t know if any of you had the same experience in this country, but I’m definitely not eager to go back. Whereas if someone offered me India, Thailand, or Vietnam tomorrow, I’d be there in a heartbeat!!!

Hello

Well, if I get the chance, I’d go back one day!

Sure, the Chinese can sometimes be more than rude (even shocking from our point of view) in public places like you described, sure they shout to talk to each other (even when they’re right next to each other in the same car!), sure the crowds in tourist spots are on a whole other level compared to Europe and can feel overwhelming, sure communication can be tough since few people know even a few words of English, and yet...

And yet, it’s that unique atmosphere—and especially the (relative) difficulty of communication—that gives it all its charm and appeal. I’ve traveled to many countries, and China is the one (along with India, in a different way) that gave me the strongest sense of being somewhere completely different, the feeling of truly being "abroad," the happiness of managing to make myself understood and get what I wanted with just 3 or 4 words of Chinese, that constant sense of satisfaction for even the smallest things that kept my trip moving forward...

After all, everyone has their own experience, their own feelings, their own sensitivity.

You compare it to India and Southeast Asia, but it seems to me that Indians are just as rude in queues (when queues even exist and don’t look like a giant rugby scrum!), that food is much spicier in India and can be just as spicy in Thailand, and that if you ask a question in those countries and the person doesn’t know the answer, you’ll get a big smile and a made-up response just because they don’t want to say no or admit they don’t know. A lot of these things aren’t unique to China.

When you travel, you experience things that are different from home. That’s the whole point. Plus, you were on a package tour, so the food was definitely bottom-of-the-barrel quality. There are more Chinese people who speak English than there are English people in England. But those who are better educated aren’t working as servers in restaurants. I wonder how many servers in France speak Mandarin. Actually, American tourists often complain that servers in France don’t speak English... Next time, if you want fewer crowds, don’t go during summer vacation.

- the food: way too spicy. No flavors, little taste. I’m speaking "in general" because we did try some good steamed dumplings, smoked pork, and dumplings...

Hi there,

Talking about Chinese food "in general" makes as little sense as talking about European food "in general," since China has the same size and diversity as Europe. Starting your trip around Chengdu, it was inevitable you’d encounter very spicy food, as Sichuan province is famous for that—just like Hunan, where Zhangjiajie is located.

I found this paragraph amusing because I’d just eaten Chongqing noodles with a Chinese friend who was literally on fire, but I wasn’t. The difference between us? She’s from Beijing, while I "trained" in Chengdu. Some Chinese people struggle just as much as you do with certain Chinese dishes!

Good evening

It's best not to visit a country when you're in a bad mood; you end up blaming the country for your mood and drawing false conclusions. Paul Theroux - The Great Railway Bazaar

"They don’t know how to talk, they shout... on the bus, at the hotel..."

The Chinese speak very loudly, in a deafening, harassing, and non-stop manner, as if no one ever listens to them and they have to shout to be heard. The radio and television are always at full volume. Why? Are they all afflicted with congenital deafness, or is it just a rather detestable habit? They leave doors open—it’s a national habit. Paul Theroux - Riding the Iron Rooster

I loooooove China

photos.google.com/...aUJOcVBPV0lqcnF4Ql9R

Well... 😮

For me, all your “negative” experiences (behavior, communication, understanding) are exactly why I L-O-V-E-D China and would happily go back!

I never felt oppressed or pressured... I found the Chinese people so willing to help, and I got a lot of help during some pretty stressful moments!!! Plus, they didn’t hesitate to share their food with me—on the train, in lines, you name it.

Their curiosity and the way they openly stare always made me smile! And I think they have a great sense of humor!

As for communication and the struggle to be understood, I think that’s all part of the adventure! 😛

I traveled solo without a set itinerary, and I’d do it all over again—just more in the southwest of China to explore even more of the countless landscapes in this beautiful country!

🙂

If you haven't already, go to Japan—you'll be much happier than in China 😉

Good evening

It's best not to visit a country when you're in a bad mood; you end up blaming the country for your mood and drawing false conclusions. Paul Théroux - Railway Bazaar

Oh really, you think I went there in a bad mood? What a preconception!!!

I loooooove China

Good thing not everyone thinks like me!!!

Hello,

Well, if I get the chance, I’ll definitely go back one day!

Sure, the Chinese can sometimes be more than just rude (even downright shocking from our perspective) in public places like you described, sure they shout to talk to each other (even when they’re right next to each other in the same train car!), sure the crowds at tourist sites are on a whole other level compared to Europe and can feel overwhelming, sure communication is sometimes tough because few people know even a few words of English, and yet...

And yet, it’s that unique atmosphere—and especially the (relative) difficulty of communication—that gives it all its charm and appeal. I’ve traveled to many countries, and China is the one (along with India, in a different way) that gave me the strongest sense of being somewhere completely foreign, that feeling of really being "abroad," the satisfaction of managing to make myself understood and get what I wanted with just 3 or 4 words of Chinese, that constant sense of accomplishment for even the smallest things that kept my trip moving forward...

After all, everyone has their own experience, their own feelings, their own sensitivity.

You compare it to India and Southeast Asia, but from what I remember, Indians can be just as rude in lines (when lines even exist and don’t look like a giant rugby scrum!), the food in India is way spicier and can be just as spicy in Thailand, and if you ask a question in those countries and the person doesn’t know the answer, you’ll often get a big smile and a made-up response just because they don’t want to say no or admit they don’t know—so a lot of these things aren’t unique to China.

I’ve still been to the Asian countries I mentioned (Thailand twice, India three times...) during French school holidays, and I never felt those kinds of crowds, whether in temples, at the Taj Mahal, or anywhere else.

Clearly, it’s a very personal experience and feeling I had, and I can totally understand why everyone who responded loves China for all sorts of great reasons!)

Hi there!

Oh right! You forgot about the Chinese who smoke everywhere, even where it’s forbidden 😕



(Oh but) it’s only China and I like it

Hello

Oh yeah! You forgot about the Chinese who smoke everywhere, even where it's forbidden 😕

Thanks for your very relevant comments, this will help move the debate and perspectives forward 😉

Traveling solo must’ve been really tough with that mindset. China is China—full of Chinese people, lots of Chinese people. It might be my gray hair. Let them shout, let them jostle—it’s just Chinese people, and honestly, I think you’re exaggerating. I stayed right in the center of Chengdu, in the pedestrian streets inside a big shopping mall. There were a lot of young people, but they weren’t disrespectful at all. I’ve always found Chinese people ready to help me. I travel solo, but for six weeks, and I never had anything to complain about. It’s true—I’ve always traveled solo.

Oh, when they talk loud, they *really* talk loud! Crank up your music—it’ll make everyone laugh 😎

Yeah, they don’t always respect queues. If someone cuts in front of you, grab their arm and point them to the back of the line. Better to yell on the spot than at home 😎

When you’re traveling solo in more isolated areas, you’ll even get stared at by passersby—or pointed at by kids. Just do the same; it lightens the mood 😎

I’ve never exchanged so many smiles with people (of all ages) as I have in China. Just today, the train ticket vendor—who I thought was super stiff when it was my turn—ended up grinning ear to ear when she handed me my ticket. I think we were both just happy we’d managed to get past the hurdle! Someone mentioned Japan, a truly beautiful country, but interactions there are pretty much nonexistent.

Anyway, China’s cool—*really* cool. And the people are super nice. There’s just one thing I can’t get used to: cigarettes *everywhere*, often where they’re not allowed. Other than that, I highly recommend it. Just be aware there are 1.2 billion people, so yeah, the roads are crowded!

China is China, with Chinese people, loads of Chinese people.

Not related at all, but it reminds me of a certain Guy Bedos sketch, lol 🙂

Yes, even the cops are Chinese—and worse, so are the military personnel.

I loooooove China

photos.google.com/...aUJOcVBPV0lqcnF4Ql9R

I love China and your photos that capture it so well... I’ve been twice and can’t wait to go back. Best regards,

Well, I’ll be heading to Kerala, Cambodia, or Malaysia instead 😉

Good evening Eric, I don’t dispute your feelings about China; you have to consider the affinities you feel for a country. For me, it offers variety, power, and a lack of pretension that suited me. I loved my trip to Cambodia—I’d happily go back—but I wouldn’t expect the same surprises there that China gives me. As for India, so far I’ve only seen Rajasthan, where beauty is so intense everywhere that it can feel overwhelming, even in pilgrimages and crowded gatherings as picturesque as the Pushkar Fair. I’ve met many fans of that underrated Kerala, which I might visit someday. Every country I’ve spent time in has brought me a lot of happiness. It’s a shame to only see the bad sides. Best regards.

There’s no issue at all—just the hasty interpretations some here enjoy making, reading between the lines and judging a bit harshly or ironically what I describe.

Yes, I went to China in August because it wasn’t possible to do otherwise. And if I’d gone to western China, or if I’d traveled there at another time… what if, what if… well, maybe I wouldn’t have had the same things to say.

Yes, some of my comments might seem exaggerated, but after around 20 days there, I was honestly just happy to leave.

If I hadn’t visited some Asian countries before—twice in Thailand, three times in India—I wouldn’t have been able to make comparisons. And if I’d had preconceived notions, I wouldn’t have gone in the first place.

That said, of course we discovered beautiful things and had some great encounters too.

@Kera: I can confirm that Kerala is simply magical—a place I’d recommend visiting first in India! :)

No, I didn’t feel the same way.

I’ve been to China three times for tourism and go there regularly for work.

For me, food is definitely the country’s biggest plus.

It’s not particularly spicy. I was in Malaysia in July—now *that’s* where I cried at every Indian restaurant.

During my first trip to China, I stayed for a month. I learned to say "not spicy," "the bill," and "napkins." And I always got all three.

Now I go regularly to the west coast, and I’ve never had a spicy dish.

The Chinese have a behavior and culture that’s truly whole, not influenced by the outside world, and that’s what makes the country so exotic and fascinating in my opinion. Unlike the other countries you mentioned, they weren’t colonized by Europeans, and you can really feel that! It’s unique, and it was a cultural shock for me too the first time.

As for English... well, I don’t think the English from England or the French are much better at foreign languages. For work, I speak English and manage just fine, like most of my colleagues in trade. We wouldn’t have all our clothes, our laptops, our household appliances... if the Chinese didn’t speak English! Pick a random French or English person in a provincial town, and I’m not sure they’d be very multilingual either.

I’ve seen rest areas in Normandy yell at Dutch people in French without bothering to speak English to them.

For hotels, now that I travel for work, I stay in good, comfortable hotels from international chains—total luxury, no AC issues! And the prices are great compared to Europe... obviously, in a 10 € hotel, I didn’t have the same comfort.

I’ve only been to China twice, and it’s clear I found myself "pushed" in every sense of the word. But that’s what I love about traveling: stepping out of my comfort zone, my habits, and my European reflexes to face ways of doing things that aren’t my usual, that don’t necessarily suit me, that might even shock or displease me—so long as I take the time to simply tell myself that’s exactly what’s interesting: the difference.

Another post mentions Japan, and I really think you’d be much happier traveling there. Everything is generally very well organized, polite, and well-managed, while still feeling "exotic" for a Westerner. In short, comfort... both material and "psychological."

China is harder to grasp, I think, precisely because we often have to make an effort to understand and accept certain behaviors that might seem "unpleasant." But what a wealth of experience to be confronted with it and take something positive away.

Anyway, don’t let a negative experience get you down. You now have a little experience with China—if you go back 😉, you’ll be better prepared and less thrown off by certain things, and you’ll be able to appreciate everything else even more.

Happy future travels in China or elsewhere!

Hi there,

I’m heading to China soon. The only place I know there is Hong Kong, which I visited as part of a Southeast Asian trip. Honestly, when I landed back at Roissy, I felt like I was arriving in a developing country—especially since I’d flown in from Singapore.

That’s just my take, though. No offense to anyone.

Hi Ericdu38, It’s been about fifteen years now that I’ve been going to China regularly—my wife is of Chinese origin. Your impression might come from the fact that, given your trip in China, you opted for a tourist circuit, which I totally get. As a result, you shared your journey with many Chinese tourists who didn’t necessarily have three weeks to visit their own country. For my part, I returned from China in December and I’m leaving again this Saturday for six weeks. I’ll be living with locals (my in-laws). I can assure you that Chinese people in everyday life are really different from the quick stereotype you described. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours.

Whether it’s a packaged tour, an overly packed itinerary, or anything else, that’s not what caused this miss. Some countries just click for you, and others don’t—it’s that simple. You got back not long ago, you’re disappointed and a bit worked up, which explains the slightly harsh tone of this message. China just isn’t your thing. No big deal, time to move on.

Of course, it’s not a big deal... there are much worse things in life.

Sure, we showed up there during a peak season, but still, we’ve visited most other Asian countries during similar periods and never experienced such intense crowds. The only things that come to mind are packed trains in India (but there, everyone makes their own space and no one steps on you) or short waits for major sites (but without being shoved around).

Next year, it might be Cuba or a trip to see the northern lights—something different for a change! 🙂

Yes Dominique, thanks. And I definitely respect the opinions of those who love China.

I had a long chat with the advisor from the agency that suggested this trip. She even studied in China and is in love with the country... probably with a bit more perspective than we have.

You’re really lucky not to have been trampled in India! But then again, you travel with organized tours. I travel solo, and in India, a three-hour train delay isn’t anything new. The crowd arrives, and you risk getting trampled if you’re not careful. You have to push and shove past the Indians just to reach the ticket counter. In Pondicherry, I stayed in the "Black District of Delirium"—four lanes of traffic. It stops around 1 a.m., then the cleaning ladies take over, and by 5 a.m., the muezzin’s call to prayer starts. So if you think you know India, you don’t know it *at all*. Indians might be worse than the Chinese, but I travel solo and don’t run away. I love India and China—they’re just different cultures. If you don’t like them, leave them to the rest of us. Kerala is beautiful too, but what do *you* know about it?

You’re really lucky you weren’t trampled in India. But then again, you travel with a tour group. I travel solo, and in India, a three-hour train delay isn’t unusual. The crowd rushes in, and you risk getting trampled if you’re not careful. You have to push and shove past the Indians just to reach the ticket counter. In Pondicherry, I stayed in the "black neighborhood of delirium"—right on a four-lane road. Things quiet down around 1 AM, but then the cleaning ladies show up, and at 5 AM, the muezzin’s call to prayer starts. So if you think you know India, you don’t know it at all. Indians might even be worse than the Chinese, but I travel alone and don’t run away. I love India and China—they’re just different cultures. If you don’t like them, leave them for others. Kerala is beautiful too, but what do you really know about it?

I don’t claim to know India—or any country, for that matter.

Our first discovery was Kerala, through a French agency based there with a private driver. Two great weeks. After that, I went back alone for two months: New Delhi, Ladakh, and then slowly made my way back down to Kerala and the southern part of Tamil Nadu. So two months facing "daily life" there too. But for bookings, I chose to go through local travel agencies. And last year, two weeks in Rajasthan with a driver—saw the Taj Mahal and a bunch of other sights. I haven’t been to Pondicherry. So yeah, I haven’t spent much time there, but I can still talk about it a bit more than someone who’s never set foot in the country. It let me see the big differences between these regions and figure out what attracts me—or doesn’t.

Just like in China, there’s probably a huge variety of regions, customs, and traditions.

For our other trips in Asia, we’ve mostly done them on our own. So we don’t *always* travel with organized tours.

Still, based on what I’ve seen and experienced, I’m sure I want to go back to India—but not to China.

Hi everyone, I loved reading all your comments—I relate to so many of them. I’ve been living in China for over two years now, and everything said about their behavior? I’ve noticed the exact same things. After a while, though, you just have to learn to take it lightly. When a Chinese kid points at me and says "laowai" (foreigner in Chinese), I point right back and say "zhongguoren" (Chinese in Chinese), and afterward, they’re all smiles. As for lines, if someone cuts in front of me, I tap their shoulder and tell them to get in line—they’ll usually be really nice about it. Yeah, they talk loudly—sometimes even shout—and it’s the same at work. Imagine being in an office with 20 Chinese people all talking loudly. Some evenings, I finish my day with a headache. One adjective that describes them is individualistic, but on the flip side, they’re ready to do anything to help if you’re lost. I’ve visited quite a few places in China, and the more remote the area, the friendlier and more helpful people are. If you want to see some of the lesser-known spots in China and the things that shocked me, I’ve got it all on my blog: www.duovagamundo.com But I love this country, and I don’t want to leave at all. Perfect timing, since I’ve got to stay another year anyway! :)

Hi everyone.

I’ve been to China twice. The first time was nearly 20 years ago. I was traveling solo in the Uyghur region, between Pakistan and Kyrgyzstan. The second time was almost 10 years ago, in the Shanghai area. The 2009 eclipse was the purpose of the trip, and we were traveling with a group.

I found the Chinese people neither friendly nor unfriendly—just indifferent. The crowds, the noise, the pollution—neither of these two experiences made me want to go back.

Still, I tried to return in 2014 while traveling between Thailand and Mongolia. I couldn’t get a visa because they said I didn’t have a steady income... So now I have no desire to go back at all. There are so many other beautiful places in the world to explore. Or maybe in the mountains, around the Tibetan Plateau...

That’s all!

It’s clear that such an honest post will draw some backlash...

But I get you. It’s always so paradoxical because they can be extremely annoying, disrespectful, and unbearable one moment, yet just as endearing and kind the next. The example mentioned by another forum member—the train-ticket-seller-turned-prison-guard who finally loosens up when you smile—perfectly illustrates this constant ambivalence. That cold sweat you get around strangers... which quickly turns into obvious warmth.

You also have amazing moments with some taxi drivers or barbers, for example, who are often curious and eager to chat. That’s the charming side of China! And Shanghai—what an incredible city! Such a hub of sophistication and openness! And the cities in the North—so much history and so many great encounters!

But I’m sorry, we also have to admit that just because it’s China doesn’t mean everything is perfect. It’s obvious that the service is often terrible and at best half-hearted. And honestly, when someone cuts in front of you in line or yells in your ear, no matter how much they smile afterward like they’re some saint, it’s just pure disrespect. They *know* they’re not supposed to cut in line, but they don’t care, and when you call them out, 90% of the time they’ll play innocent or act offended—only to cut in front of you again two minutes later. Unfortunately, that reveals a certain worldview that doesn’t lean toward more respect or altruism... And being blindly pro-China and excusing everything with “that’s just how it is here, it’s so different” doesn’t help anything move forward. Because NO, even in China, it’s not normal to shove people out of the way to board a plane. That kind of behavior has nothing to do with some ancient culture. Respect for others is just a basic human behavior everyone should learn when they realize they’re not the only person in the world. Clearly, there are a lot of (fake) nearsighted people in China.

As for the food, I think you’re being a bit unfair—I find it really good in the North, around Shanghai, and in the West. But without the South, yeah, it’s honestly a disaster. Oil on oil. Not to mention their love for bones, tendons, and offal, which makes you wonder where the actual meat went. That said, I don’t mind the chili—quite the opposite.

When it comes to comparing with other Asian countries, sure, every country has its quirks that shape people’s behavior. But it’s undeniable that Chinese people shock, destroy, lack respect, and annoy EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE. In the West, where they still feel a bit lost and overwhelmed, their lack of confidence and shyness means they behave a little better (though not as much as 8–10 years ago). But talk to people in Southeast Asia or Japan, or even in Africa or Mexico, and you’ll see that wherever they feel like they’ve conquered the place, their behavior is even more outrageous than at home. It’s yet another proof that their sense of respect and community is pretty relative and flexible, and they’ll do whatever suits them as long as no one calls them out. It always makes me laugh when they get offended if you ask them to queue *in their own country*, yet you constantly see Chinese people ignoring memorials in France while laughing, or yelling and shoving Balinese or Japanese people praying in temples, finding it totally normal.

Yes, the Japanese are more respectful and just as eager to help a lost foreigner. Yes, Thais are genuinely nicer and better-mannered. Yes, there’s a whiff of selfishness, fake innocence, and “nouveau riche” attitude in China. Everywhere else in Asia—and pretty much everywhere I’ve been in the world—I’ve never seen people so self-centered and so unconcerned about others. Numbers aren’t an excuse: South Korea, Hong Kong, the Netherlands, and Japan have the same density, yet they at least know how to say hello and wait their turn... Let’s hope that one day, China’s growth will also include humanity and respect for others (in the broadest sense). It’d do the country good, which keeps building a more and more disastrous reputation. And let’s not forget that for now, the ones suffering the most from this incivility and constant disdain are the Chinese themselves.

Yeah, I get everything you're saying!! If my post comes off as shocking, that’s fine—we’re here to share.

I’d already noticed that kind of loud behavior in India back in 2014. I was alone in a hotel room when a group of 6 or 10 people barged in around 9:30/10:00 PM, left their doors wide open, and just created this endless racket like they were the only ones there. Two of us went out to say something, but nothing helped calm them down.

Anyway, I don’t want to generalize, and we still had some good times. That said, it’s the first time we’ve been so eager to come back home.

Hi there, Your thoughts are the spitting image of conversations I have with my Chinese sister-in-law, who now lives in France. She has a rather unflattering view of her compatriots, often highlighting the same flaws you mentioned.

Her explanation is that in China today, money is the only value that matters: if you have it, you walk all over others. If you don’t, you get walked all over. This is even more pronounced among the urban middle class, a group that didn’t exist at this level not so long ago. And these are the very people you’ll find traveling the globe on cheap organized tours, increasingly criticized by locals for their behavior...

Hello Your reflections are the exact mirror of conversations I have with my sister-in-law, a Chinese woman now living in France. She has a rather unflattering view of her compatriots, often highlighting the flaws you mentioned.

The explanation she gives is that in China today, money is the scale of values: If you have it, you walk all over others. If you don’t, you get walked on. This is even more pronounced in the urban middle class, which didn’t exist at this level not so long ago. And these are the people you find all over the world on cheap package tours, increasingly criticized by locals for their behavior...

Hello,

Montagnard74’s post also matches my experience in China. I’d add to your sister-in-law’s explanation that China isn’t a rule-of-law state: the lack of judicial independence allows this scale of values to persist.

To add to your sister-in-law’s explanation, China isn’t a rule-of-law state: the lack of judicial independence is what allows this kind of value system.

Another big topic I didn’t want to get into here, but you’re right to bring it up.

Couldn’t agree more, Zola! What a joy, what an adventure! Just like you, I loved that difference, that originality, and I find it so sad how so many Asian countries have been stripped of their flavors to cater to Western tastes, overrun by hordes of Australians or others (not that I have anything against Australians... there are worse crowds). Anyway... visit... critique... but don’t judge (can you really judge a millennia-old civilization after just 2 or 3 weeks of travel?) and long live the beauty of such different journeys!

Try Bali—it’s not bad! Even for someone like me who can’t stand crowds or noise (I’m 70), sure, there’s a lot of traffic on the streets, but once you’re tucked away in your bungalow surrounded by greenery, the Balinese are such charming, respectful people. I’m speaking from experience—I spent a month in Kuta staying in bungalows nestled in lush gardens because I avoid big hotels packed with tourists.

We loved Bali! 😊

As for me, before leaving for China, I was advised to visit other Asian countries and avoid China. Yet my trip in April 2017 following a Beijing-Hong Kong itinerary and the one last April between Shanghai and Guiyang were absolutely enchanting.

But I understand your impressions, and indeed, some of their behaviors can be shocking. However, it’s worth balancing that with the positives: no one tries to scam you, you always feel safe (my girlfriend often walked alone at night), they have a fabulous railway transport system, they’re respectful (they don’t stare, and how many times did they offer my partner a seat?), and so much more. I suppose these qualities are even more pronounced in Japan, but compared to other countries I’ve visited, China is in a league of its own.

Two personal stories that highlight their kindness: the time we were stranded in a small town and the bus driver cut off another bus to let us board and take us to our destination. Then there was the time I had a persistent cough (I have bronchitis/asthma issues), and some students came to our rescue in a pharmacy to help us pick the right medicine and dosage.

Should I also mention the richness of their architecture and the diversity of their landscapes? That tips the scales even more on the positive side!

Yet I don’t travel in luxury. We’re always backpacking, staying in hostels, and avoiding taxis. In big cities, I love taking buses and the metro. In Beijing and Shanghai, I make sure to ride during rush hour—every time, I love the atmosphere. Also, biking in big cities or crossing the street on a red light (I know, it’s a bad habit) feels safer than back home in Montreal, where cars drive much faster.

At the office, when I say I’m going back to China, I hear "Again?!" Yes! Because every time I go, I discover something new.

We’ve never had communication issues, and I don’t speak Mandarin. Still, we visit many villages and always manage to make ourselves understood—our topics aren’t philosophy, just directions to find a bus, food, and a place to sleep 🙂

Next year, I’m heading back for 5 weeks, mainly to visit Yunnan. I can’t wait.

Did you, like us, experience the same things in China?

Couldn’t agree more. Some people here have said China is a fabulous country. That’s true, of course, but what’s the point? We’re talking about the Chinese—they’re just unbearable. Sure, you might appreciate that in hotels, they leave the doors open so they can talk... well, yell from one room to another. But you might not like it either. The Chinese government even published a little guide on good manners to use abroad (or rather, bad manners to avoid). Maybe in a few decades, they’ll stop spitting in the street ^^

When’s the little code-of-conduct booklet coming for us French folks—or anyone else—traveling abroad? 😉

Hi, you really made me laugh with your post—it reminds me of some friends I traveled with for 15 days in China back in 2006, who were also thrown off by the behavior of the Chinese. Actually, you just have to do like them and take it with a laugh, otherwise it’s true that it can be annoying. You didn’t mention the spitting and other "emphatic" throat-clearing—was that out of modesty, or have they calmed down? Zai jian.

As for me, before leaving for China, I was advised to visit other Asian countries and avoid China. Yet my trip in April 2017 following a Beijing-Hong Kong itinerary and last April’s trip between Shanghai and Guiyang were absolutely enchanting.

But I understand your impressions, and yes, some of their behaviors can be shocking. However, you should also weigh in the positives: no one will try to scam you, you always feel safe (my girlfriend often walked alone at night), they have a fabulous railway system, they’re respectful (they don’t stare, and how many times did they offer my partner a seat?), and so much more. I suppose these qualities are even more pronounced in Japan, but compared to other countries I’ve visited, China is in a league of its own.

Two personal stories that show their kindness: the time we were stranded in a small town and the bus driver cut off another bus to let us board and take us to our destination. And another time, when I had a persistent cough (I have bronchitis/asthma issues), some students came to our rescue in a pharmacy to help us pick the right medicine and dosage.

Should I also mention the richness of their architecture and the diversity of their landscapes? That tips the scales even more toward the positive!

Yet I don’t travel in luxury. We’re always backpacking, staying in hostels, and avoiding taxis. In big cities, I love taking buses and the metro. In Beijing and Shanghai, I make sure to ride during rush hour—every time, I love the atmosphere. Biking in big cities or crossing the street on a red light (I know, it’s a bad habit) feels safer than back home in Montreal, where cars drive much faster.

At the office, when I say I’m going back to China, I hear "Again?!" Yes! Because every time I go, I discover something new.

We’ve never had communication issues, and I don’t speak Mandarin. Still, we visit many villages and always manage to make ourselves understood—our goal isn’t philosophy, just finding a bus, food, and a place to sleep 🙂

Next year, I’m heading back for 5 weeks, mainly to visit Yunnan. I can’t wait.

Of course, there are positives: safety on the streets and elsewhere, you can leave your bags without worrying too much, and you don’t feel stared at or "hassled" for a few dollars just because you’re a tourist (a memory from a trip to Morocco where kids from the village ran after us asking for money).

Happy exploring in Yunnan 😉

Good evening,

"The Chinese spend their time spitting. They clear their throats so loudly that conversation becomes inaudible—it sounds like a rototiller, or someone cleaning out a gutter, or the last few liters of water draining from a Jacuzzi. They suck in their cheeks: *Kurrrkh!* Then they grimace, position their teeth, and lean forward. You expect a jet of at least five meters, like a cowboy in the pampas, but no, they don’t put any force behind it. They rarely spit more than a few centimeters away. They don’t just spit far—they spit downward; that’s the key cultural difference I took a year to figure out in China. It’s not a clean shot right into the spittoon—it’s a dribble that trickles outside the disgusting receptacle. They double over when they spit, bending their knees and arching their backs as a prelude. There’s nothing aggressive about it. It’s almost silent. They let the glob drop and carry on their way. Of course, it’s an overcrowded country, and it’s impossible to hock a loogie without hitting someone." Paul Theroux – *Riding the Iron Rooster* (1986)

Chinese people spit less than they used to. There was an awareness campaign before the 2008 Beijing Olympics that actually worked. That’s a good thing. But I see more people spitting in Brussels than I ever did in China (where I haven’t been back since 2014)

Despite my love for China, I have to admit I don’t agree with a few points mentioned:

they don’t stare

Ohhh, yes they do 😛

When I took a bus in Guilin, there was a man who sat right in front of me, and for the entire ride, he just kept this expression: 😮 He spent a good 10 minutes staring at me with his mouth open! And I’m talking about Guilin—not some remote village in the Chinese countryside where foreigners might be rarer. It made me laugh inside because, honestly, Guilin is full of tourists, so his reaction surprised and amused me!

Another story: during my visit to the Summer Palace, I took a break to eat, and in front of me was a Chinese family with several kids. One little boy spent the whole time I was eating trying to take my picture. Sometimes I’d turn my head away, laughing, so he couldn’t get the shot. When he finally succeeded, he was so proud and laughed with the other kids... I finished eating, walked up to him, crouched down to his level, and took a picture of him with my camera... Poor kid!!! He was so embarrassed!!! But his family and everyone around us was laughing a lot!

(The photo’s blurry because 1) I’d just bought a new camera I didn’t know how to use yet; 2) I took the picture quickly since the little guy was so embarrassed, and I didn’t want to prolong his suffering.)

So yeah, people do stare, but you shouldn’t take offense—it can actually be funny in the end 🙂

No one will try to scam you

In touristy areas, you still need to be careful. For example, in Xi’an, the cashier—who was super rude—didn’t give me my change after I bought my ticket to see the Terracotta Army... She just tossed my entrance ticket at me while yelling. I realized 5 minutes later! I went back to her, and as soon as she saw me approaching, without me even saying a word, she handed me the correct change right away—still acting just as rude!

But that was one of the very few bad experiences I had in China.

Generally, I found people in the south much friendlier than those in the north, where the big-city vibe was much stronger: people were more closed-off, less chatty, etc. But they were always ready to help, for example.

Have a great evening!

Maybe in a few decades they won’t spit in the street anymore ^^

Hehe!

Spitting’s nothing, though...

I’d just like it if they’d stop peeing right in the middle of Shanghai, on a packed street without even trying to hide 😎

😮

😛

All I want is for them to stop peeing right in the middle of Shanghai, on a packed street without even trying to hide

Peeing—that’s the *best-case* scenario 😏😏

China is like several countries in one... And you're judging it based on a few days of a low-quality trip?

And Yunnan... simply magical! But no, you don’t know it.

So, above all: Don’t go back to China!

Me, I loooove it and I’m going back for the 4th time.

Happy travels elsewhere,

Hi Eric, you had a bad experience during your trip to China; unfortunately, you got off lightly: every day, tourists of all nationalities are scammed in China’s big cities like Beijing or Shanghai. The method is always the same—scammers use well-rehearsed tricks: first, they lure you in with young people posing as students who offer you free tea (a Chinese welcome tradition, or so they say). Once they’ve hooked you, they take you to a bar slightly off the main streets and offer you tea for free. Next, they suggest a supposedly higher-quality tea, and at the end, they tell you it’s not free—the price ranges from a few hundred dollars, and they make sure to lock the doors so you can’t escape. They hold you there until you pay the $200 or $300 they demand. If you don’t have the cash, no problem! They come with a portable card reader, just like in a French shop, and force you to pay with the credit card you have on you. Every day, hundreds of tourists fall victim to these scams—whether it’s the "welcome tea" trick, karaoke girls who claim they’ve filmed you, or other schemes. I’ve visited China—maybe I’ve seen more sites than you—and I can tell you, I’ve never encountered people as racist anywhere else. And I’ve been traveling the world for thirty-five years by car, sailboat, train, and bus. For example, at the two Novotels in the Chinese capital, there isn’t a single day when tourists don’t come to complain about the scams they’ve suffered during their visits. You were very lucky not to have been scammed and held against your will. The most recent people who told me about this "welcome tea" scam were two big, strong guys from a Nordic country who couldn’t do anything against the four thugs who followed them in, locked the door, and demanded payment. As for the rest of your comments, I can confirm the mindset in the big cities—they spit everywhere, and government officials and the police are the most racist toward foreigners (I experienced this in Guilin and along the Li River). But if you venture into the countryside, people are like anywhere else in the world—wary of foreigners, and it’s up to you to earn their trust. I hope you’ll get the chance to visit other, more welcoming countries. If you like hiking, I recommend Nepal and Pokhara, or the temples of Angkor in Cambodia and its lake with the nearby fishing villages. Or Halong Bay and Saigon (a walk around the lake in the city center) in Vietnam, Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia with its tea plantations in the north and its strait in the south, with the Perhentian and Tioman Islands. Or Sumatra with its orangutan rehabilitation village and Lake Toba, one of the largest craters and a tragedy in this planet’s history.

You’ll see that Asia has a thousand facets, and China isn’t a model for tourism. It’s a country that has known every form of monarchy and communism—a nation of slaves under dictatorship, gasping for air. You’ll need to be patient and wait a few decades before it wakes up. Safe travels,

Apart from the suckers who still think young Chinese women chat with them for their good looks, I don’t see who gets scammed by the tea ceremony in China 😏. Every time, it’s the same guys who get lured into hostess bars by 20-year-old girls while they’re pushing 50 😄😄.

Anyway, let’s get serious again.