Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome

I don't have a van or bus, but I have a beautiful 407 raised and extended that I really baby. As my income allows, I'm fitting it out, little by little. I'm struggling with the gas connection and the water drainage system (not outside, of course).

Thanks for your advice.

Séverine.

HELLO SEVERINE

IN RESPONSE TO YOUR EMAIL, HERE'S THE INFO I CAN SHARE WITH YOU:

IF YOU WANT TO GET THE VEHICLE OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED, THE ONLY SOLUTION IS .... AN APPROVED INSTALLER! OTHERWISE, USE EQUIPMENT DESIGNED FOR HOME INSTALLATIONS (PROHIBITED BY INSURANCE...)

FOR GREYWATER WITH CERTIFICATION, YOU NEED TANKS WITH COMPARTMENTS OF MAX 100 LITERS EACH. WITHOUT CERTIFICATION, A DIESEL TANK FROM A SCRAP TRUCK (15) CAN WORK AND GENERALLY HAS A CLEAN-OUT ACCESS HATCH AND A LOW-LEVEL DRAIN OUTLET. TO CLEAN THE DIESEL, THERE ARE SPECIFIC RINSE PRODUCTS, NOTABLY AT DACD 0475588010 (one of my company's clients)

HOPING I'VE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS, HERE ARE MY CONTACT DETAILS IF YOU NEED TO REACH ME

PATRICK HONORIN 0475830600 0625592901 patrick@geyserconcept.com

Thanks Patrick for your advice, I can't stick around—I'm logging in from work 😛, I'll contact you very soon.

See you soon

Sev

Hi

I'm planning to convert a ~50-seat bus into my home and a small rehearsal space.

Can you give me some tips on buying, homologation (with or without—what's the difference?), equipment, choosing power/gas/water systems, taxes...

Thanks for sharing your experience, and safe travels!

Everything is doable, but you need to start from the beginning...

Choose the right bus model and sit down with a drafting table or computer to prepare a file for the friendly technical advisor from the mines department (DRIRE).

Depending on your needs or financial means, the base (the bus) will be different. The examples given exclude the conversion work.

The most common option with limited financial means (under €3,000) is a Renault S53 school bus. Parts aren't expensive and you can find them with low mileage in all the bus scrapyards.

With a bit more money (€5–8,000), you can turn to Renault FR1 buses, first generation, the VanHool range which comes in several lengths and with different roof heights, or other models with flat glazing (easier for conversion).

With more substantial financial means, you can look at Mercedes Setra, Bova or Volvo, for example, and maybe even imagine a double deck! (English double-deckers should be avoided because of spare parts problems – maintenance requires non-metric tools and the brand isn't represented in France – Leyland).

Bear in mind that the bus isn't expensive compared to a proper conversion.

For example:

On an S53, it's not reasonable to undertake major bodywork (given the age of the vehicle...). The interior conversion will be minimal, and the vehicle, by its very design, will inevitably remain uncomfortable... On the other hand, maintenance costs will be reduced (it's a truck!).

On a higher-end bus, you'll need to do more substantial work: Access to the luggage compartments can't be cut anywhere. The glazing, being glued, will need to be reinforced to accept certain customizations (such as a bunk bed).

For more recent buses, even conversion specialists refuse to do the work! Good luck to anyone who wants to tackle it.

As for double-deck buses, I haven't found any since I started my research that have managed to get certified. Plus, you'd need to be less than 5'7" tall to actually live in one!

The last very important points for getting into this adventure are the following:

Vehicle from before 1995 (if more recent, the seats must be original seats in original locations, otherwise crash test!).

Driver's door on the right side is mandatory (some have managed certification with a central side door on the left, or a rear left door, but that's normally impossible according to DRIRE guidelines).

It's impossible to relocate any number of components. For example, the tanks or any part of the braking or steering system; otherwise you'll need to provide the manufacturer's authorization to the mines inspector (good luck getting authorization from a foreign or even French manufacturer).

Check the payload capacity and weight distribution per axle, because many buses with rear engines don't allow you to put the water tank at the rear either, since in that case the weight on the rear axle will be exceeded. This often forces a layout with kitchen and bathroom facilities at the front.

etc...

The other solution is to buy a complete conversion file that has already obtained approval from the mines authority from someone or a conversion specialist. This means spending €2,500 to €7,500 for plans for a conversion that may not be the one you like, on a base model that may not be the one you would have chosen. Then you still have to do all the work and stick to the plans.

The last solution is not to go through the mines authority! Which I absolutely don't advise! Indeed, in case of a road accident, you're liable! Plus, at the first vehicle inspection, you're guaranteed to see the inspector put a nice "R" for "Refused", which from a legal standpoint prohibits you from driving or selling the vehicle. It becomes scrap. It's a perfect example of money thrown out the window and a lack of judgment.

So, if you get through all these steps, you can start thinking about detail points like gas, choice of toilet type, electrical generation equipment, etc...

Good luck to you—I managed to do it myself without anyone's help, so it's definitely doable. Don't hesitate to contact me if you need more info.

PATRICK26.

Thanks for your advice!

Do you have any recommendations about where to buy a bus (my budget would be max €7,000)—types like Setra 215 or VanHool?

Can you give me supplier contacts for interior equipment (heating, toilet, etc.) and tips about off-grid electrical systems powered by batteries (supplier, cost...), fresh water and wastewater systems, and insulation?

Thank you very much

For used buses, search for "coach," "bus," or "used bus" and you'll find tons of them!

Don't rush—the secondhand market has plenty of buses for sale and way fewer buyers. You can negotiate a good deal.

For the conversions, check out the Euro Accessories network or Narbonne Accessories. You'll find everything you need.

For batteries, Fenwick batteries are ideal and go up to 420 Ah. Ask any material handling equipment dealer.

Good evening patrick

Hello,

I'm looking for a SETRA 210 or 211 coach in Belgium and Germany to convert into a motorhome.

Does certification of such a vehicle pose any problems?

What's the best way to proceed?

I already have quite a few addresses in Belgium and Germany that I found online, but I'd be interested in having others, especially in Belgium for easier communication since I don't speak German.

Best regards,

Serge

Hi,

Do you have any info on where to find bus plans with specs for the Setra 215, Vanhool?

How do you figure out how to distribute the load across the axles? Are there technical documents for the standards you need to follow?

Do you have photos of your bus? I'm curious to see your work, if you don't mind. I've got a lot going on, and anything that helps me get a clearer picture of what's doable is really interesting to me.

Are you coming to Strasbourg on September 1st? I live there, so I'll be there unless something comes up.

See you!

Hey there!

I just landed on the site...! And naturally I'm checking out what people are saying about buses, camper vans, trucks, etc... I'm a truck driver—I lived in a 508D for three years, and for the past five months, it's been fantastic!!!!

Yeah, it's true that going from 10 to 30 square meters really makes a difference!!! A 1985 S53 that looks brand new even with 500,000 miles on the clock!....

Since I did the whole conversion myself, the paperwork headache and especially the weight distribution calculations kept me busy..... But anyway, I made it happen—a certified camper van with hot water and everything... even though it's not fully finished. I got it certified with the basic setup, and since then I've been installing the water heater, tanks, etc.... It's true that it's not the best approach, but I had to move fast so.....

Anyway, I'm currently around Tours in the 37 if anyone needs a hand (or today!!) I'm happy to help!! :)

I'd be curious to see some photos of your bus Patrick!! See you soon!

Hi patrick26,

Based on the various messages you've replied to, it's clear to me that you're really knowledgeable about motorhome regulations and conversions.

I don't have a bus conversion project myself, but I've got an idea that's been rolling around in my head about building or converting a pop-top motorhome.

My questions:

Do you know of any RV converters who could build a pop-top using aluminum sandwich panels? Does modifying a motorhome (openings, interior work) require official approval?

Best regards, Kiboun

hey there...😛

we've also jumped into the adventure of converting a bus.... it's a SETRA KASSBOHRER (s 215 hd) from 1977, we've registered it as a vintage vehicle to get around the restrictions...😏. Indeed, we've put metal panels in place of the big windows, and on the metal panels we've fitted small wooden house windows and it looks really nice.... all we have left to do is finish the kitchen and the "living room". By the way, all your advice is welcome on the conversion, but also when it comes to traffic restrictions for heavy vehicles (vintage) because I heard, and I really want to stress this... that heavy vehicles aren't subject to this restriction law... and one last little thing, where can I get the technical manual in French...

Thanks for everything

A little family hoping to get on the road soon...

Hi,

Sorry I missed the 1–9 gathering in Strasbourg—I had a death in my family and couldn't make it.

A few questions for someone experienced: What are the typical taxes and fees for a converted motorhome bus (technical inspection, registration, vehicle tax, axle fees)? How much does maintenance on your bus cost per year, roughly?

Any websites with information about buses (conversions, regulations, sales...) would be really welcome!

Thanks

QUESTION: Hi, I'm looking for info on what types of high-capacity RV tanks (250L) I should consider?

hey there!

I was also looking for a large water tank capacity, it's not easy to find exactly what you need....

To start, you can search online by typing reservoir, container, tank, etc. in your search engine. It gets more complicated if you have specific dimensions you need to respect. As for me, since my tanks are in the storage compartments, I had the height issue, etc...

I eventually went with two 210L tanks each, and I found them at a company called ACS plasturgies, located in the 68 area in Sierents. TEL: 0389839821. They delivered to my home, no worries...

If you're aiming for official certification, definitely don't forget (like I did...) 😕that any tank over 100L must be equipped with baffles!!

There you go... Well if your DIY works out, it's all good then grab a little beer and let's go!!!

Don't hesitate if you're looking for something else!

Good evening everyone, I've been away for a few days for work (I manage expo setup and breakdown across all of Europe), and I'm here to answer the various questions.

First off, the bus I'm preparing is currently undergoing conversion. In fact, I'm having this vehicle converted for work purposes—it will serve an assembly team to replace another vehicle (which we also had converted) that we're retiring. I'll also use it for family vacations... shhhh!

This vehicle must comply with all current regulations because it will be transporting personnel across Europe; that's why I know the regulations well because I'm the one handling everything regulatory in the company—from the design of the stands and exhibitions we create to special vehicle projects like podium trucks or show trailers (like the Adidas tour, for example). The moment it carries the public, even the slightest breach of the rules could land you straight in jail without passing Go...

I promise that as an update I'll quickly publish the complete file on our bus: photos, plans, manufacturer modification agreement, agreement from the Ministry of Transport (the DRIRE declaring themselves incompetent to handle our request), list of materials selected and approved by the DRIRE for the conversion. But for now I'm short on time....

So I'll answer the questions asked on the forum.

Random responses....

On buying a bus abroad: Let's keep it simple... forget it! For homologation you'll need an RTI and you'll have to request it from the manufacturer. If you get it, your bus can be registered in the "type series," otherwise you'll have to go through an individual type approval, and there, count on a good year before you can get it on the road.

2 addresses to find used buses in France from serious sellers: gaby-chariots.com bacqueyrisses.com Also contact the Irisbus network Get in touch with the regional transit authority near you, they're definitely retiring buses and they're very well-maintained vehicles.

Regarding the search for plans: Aside from DAF, which publishes them on a site with the complete list of serial numbers, you have to contact the converter. Be careful—a Mercedes bus might have been bodied by Setra, Kassbohrer, or Drogmüller.... that's who you need to turn to. Good luck! For mine (bodied in France by Héliez), it took me 3 months. The good news was they sent me along with the chassis plans for the DAF that I never managed to get directly from DAF!

On creating a compartment: The only company I know that's ready to do complete studies on any light or heavy vehicle is Polycomposit. Most cell manufacturers build them in series; these guys do custom and series work. To contact them: polycomposit.zoomici.com

Regarding the request to pass vehicle inspection: You can drive a car you've made yourself if you want. But be careful! Don't go hitting a kid outside a school with a modified or converted vehicle without having it inspected because in that case it's jail!

Quick reminder of the law: Any modification to the chassis, engine, body, interior fitting, or general appearance that makes the vehicle different from when it was initially inspected by the manufacturer requires the owner or converter to have it re-inspected.

If we apply the law strictly, a white vehicle repainted another color must pass inspection (because police blue is forbidden, as is the fluorescent orange of fire trucks, etc...) Continuing along the same lines, if a car seat is broken, you have to replace it with a new one or a seat from a vehicle in the same "type series" or... re-submit for inspection!

On the classic registration document issue: From what I know from having owned vehicles under classic registration, the restrictions are the same for all (but I'm not entirely sure). However, the regulations attached to the vehicle type still apply: If your registration document still shows the mention "bus" or "HGV," you remain subject to the tachograph and European regulations and the limitations that come with them (freeze barriers, having the proper license—HGV for HGV and commercial for commercial—and driving restrictions).

I remind you: the only solution for driving a heavy vehicle (HGV or commercial) on Sundays and without restrictions is motorhome homologation, non-specified type vehicle (NSPC), or specific conversion (VASP). In all cases these homologations prohibit the transport of goods or paid passenger transport. (That's why our file went all the way to the ministry because our bus has a rear loading ramp to load a car or stand materials and the inspectors wouldn't give me a non-specific classification because cargo transport in a section of the vehicle represented more than 10% of the volume).

Questions on taxes: If the vehicle is homologated as a motorhome or non-specified, no more axle tax. If it's VASP = axle tax. For vehicle inspection, the vehicle goes every year (like a truck) even if it's a bus because for this type of designations (VASP, motorhome, NSPC) it will be downclassed to a truck and can in no case and despite the conversion type carry more than 9 people including the driver. The cost of vehicle inspection for a type designation is around €110 from the latest I heard. The maintenance cost for this type of vehicle is different from a classic RV but not more expensive. In fact the parts are a bit more expensive on a commercial vehicle but they break down less often, and annual vehicle inspection (equivalent to the car's technical inspection) forces you to stay on top of maintenance. As an example: when you do an oil change on a commercial vehicle, that's 35 liters of oil... but your oil changes are much further apart than on a regular car. Bottom line it's the same either way.

On tanks: Another good tip I've already shared on VF.... If you're going to hang a compartmentalized tank under the chassis, just grab an unleaded or diesel tank of whatever capacity you want from a wrecked vehicle at a scrapyard! After rinsing it with specific products, it can carry your clean water without any issues. Cost of a 250L commercial vehicle compartmentalized tank: about €50 plus the rinsing product. Bonus: you get the attachment system and hoses for the pump with it! For the rinsing product check out dacd.com for example.

There we go, I hope I've shed some light on things... Let's not mess around with heavy vehicles. Latest known accident of a competitor of ours with a truck converted into a podium truck: To close windows he'd glued on metal panels like body shop guys do; but he hadn't prepared the surface properly for the adhesive and the panel tore off taking a chunk of the truck body with it. All that at 90 km/h on the highway! Lucky break it was at night on the A10 and there was nobody around. I'll let you responsible adults imagine if you'd been driving behind in a car with your kids and your car got cut in half by a framework of metal panels weighing 300 or 400 kilos..... The regulations are annoying, but you should know that most were put in place after several accidents, most of them fatal.

Here's a little joke to end on a lighter note...

How do you recognize a happy RV enthusiast?

By his left arm more tanned than his right from the sun through his window..... (sorry....)..

Hey patrick, I'm 21 and I'm working on converting a bus with a friend by December—that's when the bus we're looking at will turn 20 and won't be eligible for public transport anymore. The bus should cost us around €2,300 and it's in really good condition, so we think we're getting a good deal. Being young and short on money, I was wondering if you might have some tips for... uh sorry, some budget-friendly ideas for renovating with recycled materials and stuff like that. Thanks in advance.

THANK YOU! I'M GOING TO LOOK INTO THAT RIGHT NOW! 😉

Hi everyone, I'm also planning to convert a bus S53 as a second home.

And I'd like to meet someone who's already done this kind of conversion. Currently I'm in Reims, but I'm heading down south in 1-2 months for this project.

I'd also like to know how much insurance costs?? average fuel consumption of the S53

I have a budget of 8000? I'm planning 3500-4000? for the bus purchase the rest for the conversion and the finishing touches.

VUIBERT Benjamin😛

Thanks for all the info you provided, now I just need to get it inspected to be sure...

Hey sgoub......

Here in Paris; I have a great tip for you about buying your bus—a legit and friendly place. I bought mine there, it's an '85 with 500,000 km for 1,500. It's in great condition... and compared to the 508, it runs!!!

Fuel consumption really varies depending on how you drive and what RPMs you run the engine at, but figure about 25-30l.

I'm in Tours at the moment but I'm thinking of heading south for the winter, bbbrrrrrr. If you want, maybe we can try to meet up!

In the meantime, if you want some photos, no problem!!

Safe travels!

Xavier!

What's your address in Paris? I'm interested

A bus for 1500? I'm very interested in that!

And well, if you've got some photos, that's always interesting

You can contact me at benhurd@benhurd.net

I'll obviously need help figuring out how to do the conversion to keep everything above board!!

Thanks a lot

benjamin😛

I've read everything you've said from the start, and it's really interesting... 🙂 I'm thinking of buying a bus and fitting it out afterwards. I've looked into the addresses you recommended... Can you give me some advice on buying the bus? Regarding the Kassbohrer S140, is it sensible to buy one... in terms of parts, are they easy to find...? I found one for €2,300, but it has 650,000 km on it. Is it worth it? The thing is, it's got more style than the S53 (and that really matters to me)... I'm also looking into an S53M Saviem—what can you tell me about it? It supposedly has 220,000 km for €2,500??? Thanks for your valuable advice. 😉

Hi there,

When choosing your bus, keep these points in mind:

For a camper conversion, avoid buses with exposed frames (frameless) as they're harder to convert and more difficult to get through inspections.

A vehicle with air suspensions will be much more comfortable than one with leaf springs;

Pay attention to the transmission too; on the same model you might have either a short (made for mountains) or long transmission. With a short transmission, watch out for fuel consumption and often reduced top speed. The same vehicle assigned to school shuttle service in Bordeaux won't have the same transmission as one from Briançon. Depending on the transmission, your bus might be limited to 80 km/h, whereas other transmission types will let you do 90 km/h on the motorway with low fuel consumption.

A bus with a driver door is preferable; inspectors increasingly require it. If the bus doesn't have one, you'll need to cut one in! Average cost is around €2 to €3,000!

A rear door is essential and access to it must be via a corridor at least 45 cm wide with no doors or obstructions. So to be clear, if you have a bedroom at the back with a side door opening into it, that's a mess! So you should go for a side door in front of the rear axle.

Also check that a trailer hitch can be installed (it's not possible on all buses). To check this, just look at the manufacturer's plate to see if the GVWR field is filled in. If only the GVW field is filled in, no trailer is possible, not even a cargo trailer or motorcycle rack!

Some tour buses have what's called a panoramic layout; avoid these. This term refers to buses with a sloped floor so all passengers can see the scenery! To convert these, you basically have to double the flooring!

Curved glazing (Mercedes 303 type) is impossible to seal at a reasonable cost.

A bus isn't a truck, so watch the weight. Choosing a bus with big storage compartments to haul lots of stuff is a good idea, but you need to make sure that once converted, you'll still have enough payload capacity to load it! Plus, the bigger the storage, the taller the bus. Choosing a bus over 3.40 m tall will block access in some places (city buses are under 3.20 m tall for a reason)

Buses aren't designed to be loaded onto ferries. In fact, their front and rear overhangs prevent some models from going up the access ramps. If you want to use your bus for Corsica, England, or the North Cape for example, choose a bus with good ground clearance (or manual suspension height adjustment) and short or heavily beveled front and rear overhangs.

Some buses are equipped with heating that works with the engine off (like Webasto for example). This is a plus because you won't need to install a separate heating system for the camper. Plus, some support a boiler accessory for hot water production.

And then you need to watch out for annoying details like inspection hatches in the floor, poorly placed heating ducts, wheel wells too high above the floor, etc., that will prevent certain conversions.

So, you need to proceed by elimination....

That leaves Renault Saviem PR and S Ponticelli Carrier (some) Buses on DAF MK205 chassis and similar etc...

Now you need to know that any bus can be converted; but not necessarily on a reasonable budget.

Let anyone who converts a double-decker Scania, a Bova or a Neoplan on a decent budget and is sure they can get it certified explain to me how they plan to do it..... Even the professionals refuse to touch them!

Good luck in your search. There's no magic solution. You need to think about what you want to do with your converted bus and find the right base vehicle.

PATRICK26

Thanks Patrick for these tips...😉 I'll take these points into account one by one and make sure I don't spread myself too thin... I lived for 2 years in a raised Transit, extended with a pop-top, really well set up but I didn't do the conversion myself... I'd like now to be able to create an interior that meets my needs... and as you say, since I'm going to travel in a motorhome, ...🙂 That's why I'm giving myself about 1 year to convert a bus of my choice to live in and travel, of course... I've already traveled in Asia (Cambodia, Laos, Thailand) by air and I'd like later to tackle the project of going there by road route...😎, but for that I need to be well prepared. For that, I still have a few years ahead of me... I need some driving experience... To get a bit more clarity on the Kassbohrer S140, can you tell me if we can easily find parts in France? According to Bacq., he confirms yes...??? but it still has 650,000 km??? unfortunately I can't go see it right away; I'm not far from Avignon,... and right now here we're finishing the grape harvest... I'm going to look deeper into the Saviem S53M based on everything you told me... Thanks and hope to hear from you soon😉

Hey, I just found an equipped S140 on a European heavy vehicle sales site worth checking out. Here's the page link: http://www.truckscout24.de/search/detail.asp?vehicletype_id=6&vehicle_id=2830098&make=0&page=1&language=fra

Pretty long URL, but definitely worth a look! The site is: http://www.truckscout24.de

For parts, Bacqueyrisses is right; there are plenty...

Go on, I'll let you go dream about the address I just gave you...

Hi

With my 1974 Saviem S45 bus converted into a registered motorhome,

I consume between 22 and 24 liters per 100km.

Oil changes and maintenance every 10,000km (20 liters of oil)

Parts are available pretty much everywhere, but it never breaks down (since I went through and fixed everything).

No axle tax.

Collector insurance €35 a year😛, a bit pricey🙂 (standard registration)

For the fresh water tank situation, I personally went with rectangular 100-liter tanks (motorhome-type) that I connected together. (400L fresh water, 200L greywater, and 50L for the toilet) – available from motorhome accessory shops.

It's REALLY interesting to collect motorhome accessory catalogs – they give you great ideas, especially about what's available out there. (Narbonne Accessories, etc...)

I'd strongly advise against putting fresh water tanks in the storage compartments, because in winter they can freeze!

Go for the upper spaces instead (under a bed for example) – it'll stay warm, and the water pump won't have to work as hard.

For greywater, you can add salt, so it's fine for the compartments.

If you're not heading to the mountains in winter, a good solution is to put the fresh water tanks on the roof rack (that's fine too)

I STRONGLY advise against – or even forbid – using non-reinforced soft plastic hoses for water; they expand in summer and can even burst. (Really! 😕)

The best for piping: COPPER!

Just use some plastic hose for the drainage.

PS parts: Europe's largest bus/coach scrapyard: Biéron Montélimar N7, about 10 hectares of complete trucks or parts, a bit pricey but they've got everything!

If you have any questions, no worries.

FANTASTIC BUILD! Finally someone with a finished project!

How have you set up your interior? Were you able to avoid drilling through the driver's door? What mistakes won't you repeat if you had to start over?

As for Bierron, watch out for that character! I know him and he's no pushover! I'm 40km away and I didn't buy my bus from him. With an identical model, I found one in much better condition for almost 3 times less...

But you're right, it's an Ali Baba's cave of buses... but it's for those who know what they're doing. The buses are sold as-is, not inspected, and he sells so many in Africa in batches of 10 or 20 that he doesn't care about single sales! (The last time I was there, he had a batch of 22 heading to Senegal all packed with spare parts).

Spare parts, though, are sorted and inspected.

Good evening everyone,

PATRICK26

"AWESOME BUILD! Finally someone with a completed project."

Thanks

"How is your interior set up?"

A picture is worth a thousand words:



"Were you able to avoid drilling through the driver's door?"

I've never heard of that! Maybe it's because my bus is from 1974, but anyway it passed inspection at the Mines (approved as a special case) in 2002...

"What are the mistakes you wouldn't repeat if you had to do it over again?"

In particular, the clean water tanks I put in the storage areas (400 liters) - I'd prefer to have them under my bed to avoid freezing in the high mountains.

Non-reinforced plastic pipes are CRAP!!! Avoid them.

Regarding Bieron, I did say in my post that it's expensive, but it has everything...

Ciao, gilles.

Hey Sputnik,

Regarding the driver door, the authorities now require a driver door opening if the rear door doesn't lead into the equipped section. VASP certification is now very difficult to obtain for a motorhome conversion. The authorities are directing people toward motorhome conversion, which requires an independent driver access separate from passenger access. For mine, I tried everything, but it didn't work – the file went all the way up to the Ministry of Transport and came back without derogation approval for this door! As for VASP certification, the authorities set the PTAC at the empty weight plus 400 kg, because this certification prohibits the transport of any cargo! (For them, a VASP is a workshop truck, a platform truck, etc... and must run empty because goods transport is regulated – RTE – and a heavy vehicle without a tachograph cannot transport anything).

My bus is like yours, with a cargo section, and it was very difficult to get certification without a tachograph for that reason.

But from one department to another, the DRIRE doesn't have the same opinion....

That's the reason for my questions.

Have a good evening,

PATRICK26

Sputnik,

Could you share the procedure you used to attach an image to an email?

I've tried without success, and some folks on this forum wanted to see my plans. I didn't realize it was even possible...

Thanks in advance

PATRICK26

Hi,

reading your post, I'm DOUBLY lucky—I was never told about driver's door issues (back in 2003), and my rear door opens onto a van I can load equipment into (about 16m³). Plus, I kept my original GVWR on my registration—14.5 tons.

And no tachograph either.

Ciao.

Hi everyone

So I've recently become the owner of a Berliet PR14A bus (no turbo) from '76, fitted out and registered as a motorhome. I'm looking for any documents and advice about this bus. Mine has the unique feature that I can fit my car inside it (a Golf 2) 😉 Of course I lose some living space, but not too much

I don't know how to upload photos, so tips on that would be welcome too

Cheers, Thony

Hey,

To insert images, you need to have a web account (like Free, Multimania, etc.) or upload the images via FTP.

Explorer handles this really well with drag-and-drop if you go to preferences and enable "FTP".

Then, once uploaded, just click the image insertion icon when you reply to a message here, paste the photo URL between the tags that automatically appear when you click the image insertion icon...

Cheers

🙂Hi, we're Mélaine and Tibo.

Finally some info, thanks!

We're planning to buy a Mercedes 613D minibus, PTAC 6.9t, 30 seats from 1981. But that's where the problems start! We thought about removing 20 seats, keeping just 10, and leaving the rest of the bus empty for now, and then gradually converting it into a campervan. But before we take the plunge on this adventure, we want to find out if it's all possible. We called the DRIRE, and found out that we'd need a partition between the passenger area and the utility area of the bus, which would also mean revising the emergency exits. That option doesn't work for us.

The question is about Mélaine's Class D license and what she can drive with it:

Can she drive a bus reclassified as a heavy-duty vehicle (under 10 passenger seats)?

Can she drive a bus reclassified as a heavy-duty campervan?

There are also two terms we're having trouble understanding: At what point does a vehicle become NSPC or VASP? And what's the difference?

Thanks for your answers and safe travels to everyone!

Mélaine and Tibo

Hello everyone,

we're back to the door problem! In the past, it was possible to get an NSPC classification (not specified), i.e. a waste classification that allowed, with or without waivers, to get pretty much anything homologated (with a bit of luck and an understanding inspector or one you'd "greased"!).

Today, that's over! The inspector no longer registers vehicles in the name of the regional authority, but in their own name! For this reason, in case of an accident due to an improper registration, their liability can be engaged. So, no more slip-shod homologations.

Now, let's get to the heart of the matter.

A bus goes to the regional authority every 6 months, a truck every year, and the state needs money and to keep its civil servants busy, so to get a downclassing they're tough.

Moreover, a bus is not designed to carry equipment, so they won't homologate a vehicle with a van compartment as a light commercial vehicle. So it's 8 passengers plus driver max to get another type of homologation.

And there, given the risk of the inspector's liability, nothing more gets any waivers.

Several options remain possible

1st (the simplest today) VASP homologation (specially equipped vehicle) motorhome type (there's also workshop truck, advertising podium truck, aerial lift truck, etc... but that doesn't concern us) In this case, the regulations require a driver's door (no requirement for the front passenger!), and a door giving direct access to the equipped part (which must be at least 45cm wide and 1.59m high if I'm not mistaken). So the door giving into the van part cannot be counted! The front door either because it doesn't give direct access to the equipped part. Furthermore an emergency exit of at least 2500 cm² must exist on the opposite face from the door. Doors must have access less than 45cm from the ground (so it's impossible to simply cut a door at chassis level, you have to build stairs!).

That's for the bodywork. For the interior, furniture corners must have at least a 3.2cm radius, etc... There, read sputnik's message (above) which gives the reference documentation for interior fitting (veritas). The advantages of this type of homologation remain important; no more tachograph, you can drive on Sundays, one annual vehicle inspection, possibility of resale without any worries, etc...

The 2nd is to manage to get an NSPC. At first glance, it's less restrictive, but the thing has become almost impossible, and will make your vehicle a hybrid thing that will pass borders poorly, for which ferries will ask you all sorts of questions to board your vehicle, etc... Because an NSPC can be anything and nothing so can contain dangerous materials, have a weight outside standard rules, have an unconventional driving position (which could prevent certain maneuvers), have a height or length out of class, etc... I'm sparing you the rest! Moreover it keeps—almost always—a tachograph and the ban on driving on Sundays.

Today the professionals of specific fitting put 2-3 months minimum to prepare the file, the plans, etc. But it took me 6 months to get all the stamps. I only started the work after, and fortunately, because if I'd followed my first plans, I'd never have gotten homologation. Moreover, if directives come to modify the regulations, my file is valid for 1 year (which allows me to do the work and not worry about the final inspection).

For Melaine's Class D license, several possibilities (I'm not talking about military licenses, the young lady shouldn't be concerned!!?!!) Depending on the date of issue she can, or cannot, drive a heavy vehicle and still depending on the date, she can, or cannot, be limited to a certain tonnage (7.5t for example). But there all the answers are on her license: If she has something in the license box c it can be fine, if there's nothing, she can only drive light commercial vehicles! And it will be impossible for her to get an equivalent heavy vehicle license since the RTE reform (European transport regulations). Also watch out for the presence of the letter E, without it, only baggage trailers (bearing the same registration plate as the towing vehicle and limited to 500 or 750 kg—I have a gap!)

But it would be interesting to ask the local prefecture because a heavy vehicle not carrying goods for its own account or for third-party account, can, perhaps... (but perhaps I'm overstepping myself...).

That's what I can contribute to your discussion.

And if there are other questions... use the usual channel!

PATRICK26

🙂Hi Patrick, and thanks for your reply.

Let us describe our future mini campervan a bit more: It's L=7m, w=2.45m. There's a manual driver door, a pneumatic front passenger door, and then 1 double-hinged rear door spanning the whole back of the bus with a large step. It's completely glazed (3 large bus windows on each side, 2 at the rear).

in this case, the regulations require a driver door (no requirement for the front passenger!), and a door giving direct access to the converted section (which must be at least 45cm wide and 1.59m tall, if I'm not mistaken). so the door leading into the cargo section cannot be counted! the front door either, since it doesn't provide direct access to the converted section. furthermore, an emergency exit of at least 2500 cm² must exist on the opposite side from the door. doors must have access less than 45cm from the ground (so it's impossible to just cut a door at chassis level, you need to build stairs!).

We're not sure we understood correctly. Based on the description we gave, do you think the current doors will be sufficient for 10-seater bus homologation with campervan conversion (without cargo section)?

To drive a heavy-duty campervan bus, we need to call the prefecture on Monday. We'll keep you updated.

Another question: Once a file is established and approved, will we be allowed to drive the minibus normally while we do the conversion bit by bit?

Do the authorities accept vehicles in the middle of conversion? Our first step: remove 20 seats so the registration reflects 10 seats. The authorities told us that if we planned to keep the rest of the bus empty (utility), we had to put a partition between the passenger seats and the cargo section (we had told them we wanted to transport equipment). Now that we're planning to make it a campervan, can we remove the 20 seats without partitioning and submit a conversion file afterwards?

Are we required to go to the authorities in our region or can we go somewhere else (we were told that all authorities were different, meaning more or less lenient)?

That's all for now but we'll have plenty of other questions later.

Thanks to you and to everyone else who's written on this forum because you've already helped us so much. 😉 (What a blessing this forum is)

All the best,

Mélaine and Tibo

Hey Patrick, I'm new here I've got a Renault Midliner S100 that I've completely converted into a video studio (I even managed to get it reclassified as a VASP caravan), and I'm currently installing solar panels to charge my batteries for running the studio. I live in it too. I'm planning to spend the season in Serrechevalier where I'll be working this winter.

I'm also putting in a wood stove — I know it's forbidden, but as long as you remove it before you go through inspection, it passes without any problem, and hey, save the cash!

But (and here's the catch) I'm sick of fighting with my insurance company (AGF), who's quoting me rates that are way too expensive for my taste. Anyway, I'm looking to switch insurers and I need information about insurance companies.

If you've got any info, I'm interested. Can't stand those AGF guys (Automobiles for Fat Asses). I don't have a ton of money — I'm on RMI right now and I'm struggling. HELP!!!

Thanks in advance!!!

Hi Ankor,

To drive a downclassed bus as a VASP with under 9 seats, no worries—do like I did and ask for a stamped document from the prefecture. I got mine in Rennes.

You can (unofficially) install the bare minimum to get VASP status (when you pass MINES inspection, near the end of the process, before you get your registration)—a stove, water source, a bed... They can't tell if what you added was already there since the technical inspections afterward focus on mechanics.

However, since you need Veritas certification (standards 56 200 and more recent), you'll need at least what I've mentioned.

Also, to clarify: my bus passed through MINES (VASP) in 2003 without any issues—it had a cargo section, no side driver door, no tachograph, and a Class D license.

Try to plan exactly what you want to accomplish—it'll be easier to help you.

Read my different posts on the site (especially here)—maybe you'll find some useful info there...

Hi Sputnick,

Thanks so much for your reply, we just have a quick clarification to ask you:

Do you drive your bus with fewer than 10 seats, with a Category D license, and is all of this completely legal?

Anyway, we went and picked up the vehicle modification paperwork for converting to a motorhome from the administrative office and it already gave us a lot of useful information about what needs to be done.

For now, we're waiting for the garage selling it to us to get it registered with the authorities.

Tell me Sputnick, what kind of music do you like? We're really into electronic music (I do live music on PC). If you're into that, maybe we could meet up at a festival sometime.

Hi BomBaKlak,

For insurance, you need to visit all of them in person. For us, the quotes ranged from basic to triple the cost. But in any case, go in person—don't call.

Well, thanks everyone for chatting on this forum. It's really helpful. See you later!

Mélaine and Tibo.

Hey Mélaine and Tibo,

"Are you driving your bus with fewer than 10 seats, your category D license, and all of this completely legally?"

Yeah, I only have 6+1 seats on my registration card and I have an official stamped letter from the Rennes prefecture and everything (if you can do more, you can do less). But I really struggled to get that info—my category D driving instructors, the cops, everyone was clueless. But in the end the person at the prefecture checked the highway code and it's fine...

"Tell me Sputnick, what's your music taste? We're passionate about electronic music (I make live music on PC). If you're into that, we could maybe meet up at a future 'festival'."

I'm a tech and drum DJ http://jillcorro.free.fr, no worries. Where are you guys from?

Feel free to reach out to me on MSN or by email... Ciao

Hi!

My first attempt at an answer didn't work, so let me try again 😉 You mentioned collector vehicle insurance at €35 a year.

I looked into that insurance too, but I was told there were quite a few drawbacks, like restrictions on traveling with the bus, and so on. What do you think about it? What are the terms of that kind of insurance? How did you manage to convert your bus to a collector vehicle? Thanks for your help...

Hey

I never said I'd put my car into collection status – I have a standard registration. But once a vehicle is from before 1988, you can insure it under collection insurance. They just ask you to have a regular vehicle insured elsewhere.

I don't have any restrictions – I can go abroad, in France, anywhere, anytime.

It's just that my insurance doesn't cover certain countries like Macedonia (MK).

But Bosnia's OK, Serbia...

Do a Google search – you'll find tons of info.

luss

Hi all,

We've been following your discussions with lots of interest ever since we've had the dream of setting up a motorhome! So we're doing our research, searching online and finding goldmines of information like this one!... The certification regulations seem a bit complicated, but nothing to discourage us...

Anyway, we came across a listing for a converted bus for sale on eBay and I'd really like to get the opinion of experts on the subject. Apart from the pleasure of converting the bus yourself, is it really more economical than buying one that's already partly converted?

Thanks for your valuable advice.

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79058&item=4500445276&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Listing details:

Heavy-duty motorhome vehicle, Renault S53 model. This vehicle is a 1983 bus that belonged to a public transport company called "Aunis Saintonge" where it received proper garage maintenance. I'll provide its service log. I designed the interior conversion myself, which is certified. This vehicle is a heavy-duty motorhome and requires a Class C license. It now includes, at the back, a bathroom (with bathtub), a kitchen (with gas cooktop), double sink, Andalusian tile countertop and plenty of storage. Water tanks are 100 liters (possibility of 200 liters). The lounge has two L-shaped benches (2.50m and 1.50m) with a storage unit and a television as well as a wood stove. A bedroom with a raised platform, a 140cm bed convertible to a sofa and a small wardrobe. The walls are insulated and paneled with wood paneling. The partitions between each room are in wood, with a door partition between the driver's cabin and the bus interior. The lighting is 12 volts + generator. On the exterior, the vehicle has storage compartments on each side as well as a deep storage area at the back. The mechanics are in very good condition, equipped with a 190 hp MAN diesel engine, 420,000 km. Average fuel consumption 18L/100km. Number of seats: 3 It has some paint runs on the exterior, a chip on the front bumper, 4 small rust spots on the bodywork. Length: 11.70 m Width: 2.50 m Technical inspection is OK, this vehicle is ready to travel. The bus is viewable in La Rochelle (17).

Hey,

Looks pretty good, but the 18l/100km fuel consumption seems unlikely—more like 23 in my opinion. A Class D license is possible, and you're missing the main thing...

THE PRICE!

If the vehicle is officially approved and you're not too handy with DIY, then it's definitely a great deal.

(the eBay link is dead)

Sorry, the price and photos are on eBay...starting bid = 7000 euros but it's likely to climb quite a bit (already 4 people have placed higher bids in the last hour!)...

Thanks for your response anyway.

If the conversion is good quality and has all the equipment, that's about the price...

but anyway, you should see the bus in person...

Hi everyone,

Things are getting complicated!

I got 2 calls this week...

The first from a company in the Grenoble region, a professional vehicle converter, who just had a VanHool BUS refused by the mining authorities in Isère for lack of a driver's door! This categorical ban prevents them from delivering the fully finished bus to their client. Plus, the modification turns out to be nearly impossible because parts of the steering system prevent any changes to this model (well, that's a fine mess!). The bus is ready to hit the road, but without papers!

Worse for the second one, a private individual from the Drôme who's planning an S53 (he'll recognize himself because he hangs around this forum), who's seeing the mining authorities ask him for the manufacturer's authorization to drill a driver's door! Application refused for this reason.

That's definitely going to be simple to get! Find a guy at Renault who agrees to authorize a modification on a vehicle that left their factory 20 years ago! (I'll try to put him in touch with a guy from Renault's engineering department that I know, and after that, inshallah!).

Following contact with one of the heads of the regional DRIRE (Southeast) with whom I'm on good terms, word is that soon a new regulation should come regarding sleeping arrangements: (European harmonization)

A test for non-ejection of people in bunks through a braking test in motion on a test track should become mandatory (as in Germany).

Explanation of the regulation: placement of dummies, accelerating the bus on the test track and braking. If the dummies move in a 'dangerous manner' or fall from the bunk, the conversion can be refused for vehicles not having seats equipped with safety belts (because in this case, passengers are required to travel seated and strapped in).

It's going to happen before long, but we don't know when...

Bottom line: no more bunks without retention systems, or installed with the opening facing the direction of travel.

For those of you in the process of converting, get informed or modify your setup.

I don't want to come across as the forum's downer by giving this info—just trying to inform those who want to travel 'legally' that things are getting complicated.

See you soon PATRICK26