Nous envisageons d'aller visiter les lacs italiens (1ere fois) pour les vacances de la Toussaint, nous disposons d'une petite semaine à partir du 17 octobre. Nous partons en voiture depuis le Var.
J'ai commencé à planifier un petit itinéraire. Qu'en pensez vous? On hésite à inclure Milan! Nous ne savons pas encore si nous devrons rentrer le vendredi ou le samedi soir chez nous.. Donc'il y a 3 possibilités de fin de séjour...
samedi 17 : route tôt vers orta San Giulio. Lac d'orta (5h30) 493km, dejeuner tardif ;parking à l'entrée de la ville. visite village face isola San Giulio. Ascension sacré monte Di orta. . Puis route vers Stresa.30 min, 26 km. nuit à Stresa.
dimanche 18 : iles Borromées, lac Majeur – prendre des tickets pour visiter l'ensemble des îles villas et jardins. Isola Bella puis isola superiore (déjeuner) puis isola madre. nuit à Stresa
Lundi 19 : route vers Menaggio avec visite en route de la ville de Côme. 1h15 de route. Visite de Côme 3h et déjeuner sur place. Puis route vers Lenno 45 min. Arrêt à villa Olmo. Visite du bord du lac. Proximité de l'hôtel. ( ou passage par lac de Lugano avec arrêt shopping store Factory fowtown)? Vous connaissez ce leur de shopping ??
mardi 20 : visite lac de come ( villa del Balbianello. Accès en bateau ou à pied par sentier ) puis villa Carlotta. visite Menaggio en fin de journée.
mercredi 21 : transfert en bateau vers 9h30 vers Bellagio le matin pour visite et dejeuner ( jardin villa melzi, quartier de pescallo et ruelles de Bellagio) , puis l’après midi à Varenna ( village et villa monastero).
jeudi 22 : le matin, route vers Vérone. 3h de route. 200km. Visite Vérone. Puis route vers Sirmione. 40 min. Nuit à Sirmione
vendredi 23 : visite de Sirmione le matin et début après-midi puis retour maison 6h30 de route . 580 km.
Ou
Jeudi 22: route vers Sirmione avec visite de Côme puis Bergame au passage.( 3h de route au total), nuit à Sirmione
Vendredi 23: visite de Vérone et fin de visite Sirmione
Samedi 24: retour maison
Ou
Jeudi 22: route vers Milan. 1h15.,72 km. Visite Milan.
Vendredi 23: visite Milan matin et début après-midi. Retour maison 5h10. 482 km
Je n'arrive pas à me rendre compte si tout est faisable ?
Merci pour vos suggestions
Marie
bonjour
tout est faisable , ( vous avez même prévu beaucoup de temps pour visiter des villages dont on a vite fait le tour ) sauf visiter Milan en si peu de temps
Bonjour !
Merci pour cette réponse.
Comment pourrions nous étoffer un peu les journées de visite ?? Que rajouter?
La nuit tombera vete 18h30 je pense..
Merci
J'opterais pour la seconde proposition (Come-Bergame) pour la fin du voyage.
3/4 de journée à Sirmione c'est trop long et 3/4 de journée à Milan, trop court.
Catherine
By this, and this only, we have existed. Which is not to be found in our obituaries. (T.S. Eliot)
Nous envisageons d'aller visiter les lacs italiens (1ere fois) pour les vacances de la Toussaint, nous disposons d'une petite semaine à partir du 17 octobre. Nous partons en voiture depuis le Var.
J'ai commencé à planifier un petit itinéraire. Qu'en pensez vous? On hésite à inclure Milan! Nous ne savons pas encore si nous devrons rentrer le vendredi ou le samedi soir chez nous.. Donc'il y a 3 possibilités de fin de séjour...
samedi 17 : route tôt vers orta San Giulio. Lac d'orta (5h30) 493km, dejeuner tardif ;parking à l'entrée de la ville. visite village face isola San Giulio. Ascension sacré monte Di orta. . Puis route vers Stresa.30 min, 26 km. nuit à Stresa.
dimanche 18 : iles Borromées, lac Majeur – prendre des tickets pour visiter l'ensemble des îles villas et jardins. Isola Bella puis isola superiore (déjeuner) puis isola madre. nuit à Stresa
Lundi 19 : route vers Menaggio avec visite en route de la ville de Côme. 1h15 de route. Visite de Côme 3h et déjeuner sur place. Puis route vers Lenno 45 min. Arrêt à villa Olmo. Visite du bord du lac. Proximité de l'hôtel. ( ou passage par lac de Lugano avec arrêt shopping store Factory fowtown)? Vous connaissez ce leur de shopping ??
mardi 20 : visite lac de come ( villa del Balbianello. Accès en bateau ou à pied par sentier ) puis villa Carlotta. visite Menaggio en fin de journée.
mercredi 21 : transfert en bateau vers 9h30 vers Bellagio le matin pour visite et dejeuner ( jardin villa melzi, quartier de pescallo et ruelles de Bellagio) , puis l’après midi à Varenna ( village et villa monastero).
jeudi 22 : le matin, route vers Vérone. 3h de route. 200km. Visite Vérone. Puis route vers Sirmione. 40 min. Nuit à Sirmione
vendredi 23 : visite de Sirmione le matin et début après-midi puis retour maison 6h30 de route . 580 km.
Ou
Jeudi 22: route vers Sirmione avec visite de Côme puis Bergame au passage.( 3h de route au total), nuit à Sirmione
Vendredi 23: visite de Vérone et fin de visite Sirmione
Samedi 24: retour maison
Ou
Jeudi 22: route vers Milan. 1h15.,72 km. Visite Milan.
Vendredi 23: visite Milan matin et début après-midi. Retour maison 5h10. 482 km
Je n'arrive pas à me rendre compte si tout est faisable ?
Merci pour vos suggestions
Marie
Bonjour Marie,
Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec Catherine et j'opterai aussi pour la solution 2 (route vers Sirmione) en faisant un arrêt d'environ 4 heures à Bergame (alto). Si vous aviez pu dégager un jour de plus au sud du lac de Garde, j'aurai conseillé un jour entier à Milan en train, en mode A/R en train depuis la gare de Desenzano del Garda (rapide et facile çà) ...Nous avons fait cela et même si nous n'avons pas pu visiter tous les quartiers de Milan nous avons vraiment beaucoup apprécié notre journée à Milan (train rapide depuis Desenzano del Garda) mais perso nous avions 23 jours de voyage de Trévise (vol aller) à Bergame (vol retour) et nous nous étions "posé" une dizaine de jours au sud du lac de Garde et avons fait beaucoup de visites depuis là (villages autour du lac de garde, bateau du sud au nord du lac, visites de Mantova, de Crémona etc)...
Mais comme ce n'est pas votre cas, si vous pouvez rentrer le samedi 24 au soir chez vous :
- le 22 je verrai bien : route de Menaggio (si c'est bien là que vous dormirez encore le 21? ) à Bergame pas trop tard le matin et ce sans refaire un arrêt à Côme si vous vous arrêtez déjà bien quelques heures à Côme le lundi 19. Puis passez environ 4 heures à Bergamo Alto (très beau) puis continuation de la route vers Sirmione. Reste de la journée et première nuit à Sirmione. 4 h à Sirmione (joli) c'était bien ok pour nous, nous avons eu le temps d'y balader un peu partout, bien à notre aise.
Le 23 : route de Sirmione à Soave . Mathilde (Mguibentif ) nous avait conseillé cet arrêt à Soave quand nous avons fait route de Vicenze à Vérone. Soave c'est une très petite commune très proche de Vérone, le centre est vraiment très joli, un vrai petit coup de coeur pour nous, centre tout entouré de murailles, un château, centre piétonnier entre les murailles et très propre etc mais ce n'est vraiment pas grand du tout, bien pour 1h1/2, plus si petite pause à une terrasse là 😉 ..Puis ensuite reprenez la route vers Vérone, y passer environ 5 h (déjà bien ok çà je trouve à Vérone) et puis retour à Sirmione pour la soirée et la nuit. Si vous avez déjà fait le tour de Sirmione la veille, peut-être faire au retour un petit arrêt à Peschiera del Garda (joli aussi, situé sur votre route retour et bien peut-être d'y rester pour le repas du soir le long du canal) avant d'aller loger une seconde nuit à Sirmione.
Le 24 : retour vers chez vous mais en chemin je vous conseille vraiment de faire un arrêt de quelques heures à Brescia, là il faut vraiment visiter la trop magnifique basilique Santa Maria Delle Grazie et son petit mais splendide sanctuaire...A Brescia : il y a bien d'autres très belles visites à faire...Voir ce lien pour cette très belle basilique à l'extérieur très simple (visite gratuite quand nous y sommes allés en 2017) : https://santuariodellegrazie.brescia.it/architettura-e-luoghi/
PS : nous n'avons pas encore eu l'occasion de visiter les villages autour du lac d'Orta, du lac Majeur, du lac de Côme mais si c'est comme les très beaux villages du lac de Garde que nous avons visités (du sud au nord) : ils ne sont jamais très grands...Autour du lac de Garde : nous visitions plusieurs villages le même jour sans jamais courir puisque nous disposions d'une voiture de location. Balades là alors à notre aise dans toutes les ruelles et les centres de ces villages, le long du lac....
J'aurais besoin de vos lumières pour savoir si cet itinéraire serait approprié, ainsi que les choix de visite. Merci d'avance! Famille de 4 personnes (dont 2…
Europe de l'Ouest › Autriche / Italie · 22 replies
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Hi there, my husband and I are planning a trip to Iceland in mid-October 2026.
Would you have any advice on the best places to visit for a first trip to this destination? Thanks
Hi there, a friend will be visiting Great Britain in August and would like to explore some representative spots in Denmark before heading back to Canada.
What affordable activities could you recommend to him?
He’d really appreciate it, as he has a deep appreciation for Nordic countries—probably because of his own Nordic roots.
Thanks
Hi, I'm heading to Italy soon and I wanted to know if Italian banks charge fees when you withdraw cash at an ATM, or if, like in Spain or Greece, it's better to avoid taking out money and bring cash instead. Looking forward to your replies... Thanks
We’re planning a short trip at the end of July to explore the legendary mountains and valleys of the Bernese Oberland: round trip from Nancy (Swiss highway vignette planned), 2 nights in a room with a small kitchen in Adelboden, then 2 nights in a hotel at the Gletscherblick in Grindelwald, both with half-board included.
Could you share some tips on the best road routes to take, as well as some walking hikes (we’re not as fit as we used to be, so nothing longer than 2-3 hours)? Maybe also 1 or 2 cable car rides—I was thinking of Oeschinensee Lake above Kandersteg and the First gondola above Grindelwald for better panoramic views of the Eiger, Mönch, and Jungfrau... all while keeping it doable with our schedule. We’ve ruled out the "premium" trip up to the Jungfraujoch for this time.
I’m also guessing that paying to access Wengen or Mürren only makes sense if we’re staying there for a few days, right?
- Is the road through the narrow valley of the White Lütschine toward Lauterbrunnen and beyond still worth it in terms of views and scenery?
On the way back, if we have a little time to explore Bern’s historic old town, what’s the best parking plan for a 1- or 2-hour stop?
Thanks in advance for your advice, fellow travelers familiar with this beautiful region! 😉
Amazing trip in May 2026: fantastic landscapes, such a different vibe from our other journeys, wonderful memories, but...
- Discovering the population: very few "native" Icelanders,
and exceptional discretion from the police, who were notably absent from the white vehicle stopped by the roadside that caught us speeding in mid-May...
To this day, only our inquiry with the car rental company has informed us of a "speeding ticket" message. More than a month later, we still don’t know the "severity" of the offense or the amount of the fine we’ll be "hit with."
Well, well, a taste of Icelandic administrative experience...
Hi,
I’ll be in Barcelona at the end of October.
I can choose to be there over the weekend or during the week. Probably 4 nights.
Is there a big difference in terms of crowds in the city and in the museums?
Little or no difference would simplify my itinerary on the way.
Hi there,
I’ll be in Rome from April 1st to 13th, 2026—it’s coming up fast!
I’ve been searching online for tickets to visit the Borghese Gallery, but either there’s no availability or the tickets offered are ridiculously expensive.
Could someone guide me to a website where I can book 2 skip-the-line tickets (I’ve heard you have to reserve in advance online)?
Hi everyone,
I rented a car through Klaus Wagen, picking it up in downtown Porto and returning it in downtown Lisbon.
After paying, I read some pretty negative reviews about them.
So, can anyone reassure me with positive experiences they’ve had with them?
Thanks in advance!
Hello, VoyageForum friends, and happy holidays!
I’m planning a trip with my 19-year-old grandson to Milan for Easter Saturday, Sunday, and Monday in 2025.
I’d love your insights on what we can visit in Milan that would interest both my grandson and me (I’m 75). Of course, I’m thinking of the must-sees, but not just those—cozy little restaurants, trendy neighborhoods, and anything else you’d recommend. I’m also looking for a comfortable hotel in the city center that isn’t too expensive!
I’m sure the VoyageForum community will help me uncover some hidden gems! Looking forward to your replies.
Hi there,
I’m heading to Setúbal at the end of June with my granddaughter, and I can’t seem to find clear info on the best way to get from Lisbon Airport to Setúbal. It looks like there’s a train or bus, but I can’t find the exact names of the bus (or train) companies or the precise departure points. Thanks if anyone can help me out! 😉 Just to clarify, I’m on a tight budget and have already ruled out taxis or similar options.
Hello,
We’re heading to Puglia at the end of May. We’re a senior couple. We arrive in Bari, where we’ve booked accommodation for 2 nights. We’ve rented a car.
Day 1: Bari
Day 2: Polignano a Mare – Monopoli
Day 3: Ostuni – Brindisi
Day 4: Lecce
Day 5 & 6: Exploring the coast from Otranto to Santa Maria di Leuca
Day 7 & 8: Gallipoli area
Day 9 & 10: Matera
We’re considering renting a place near Lecce for 5 days and using it as a base to explore the region.
Hi there,
I visited the Faroe Islands in late March 2026 for about ten days. I was invited by a friend who lives near Tórshavn, so I don’t have any info on tourist accommodations or car rentals. Still, I’d like to share a few thoughts about my trip:
- Before leaving, I consulted travel guides and blogs. I was surprised by how repetitive and unoriginal the featured sites were. This leads hurried travelers to follow the same overcrowded routes, which can annoy locals. I found that all Faroese villages were interesting—they reflect the country’s identity, even without the iconic grass-roofed houses. Those are indeed harmonious and beautiful, but they feel like an exotic cliché. For activities, I loved the lively ports that keep the country running.
- I was annoyed by the paid trails in tourist spots. Locals explained that these paths cross private land, and owners are responsible for maintenance and safety. There are plenty of free trails, too—signs at the start detail their features. While not alarmist, the extreme and unpredictable weather is a key factor to consider before setting out.
- The wind’s strength really impressed me. The architecture, with doors and windows opening outward to prevent gusts from blowing roofs off, speaks to the harsh climate. Some days, relentless rain and squalls made going outside unappealing. I realized that in this country, it’s best to plan for flexible indoor days.
- Distances are relatively short. I was happy to be based near Tórshavn because it was easy to explore one or more places in a day. The roads are in great condition. In late March, diesel was 2 €. Tunnel tolls can add up (~26 € per crossing), making a fixed base less practical than I’d thought.
- Everyone agrees: the landscapes are breathtaking. Nature feels untamed here—except for the short grass, thanks to all the woolly sheep.
- The flight from Paris to the Faroe Islands (and back) was long in March—11 hours with three legs: Paris-Amsterdam, Amsterdam-Copenhagen, Copenhagen-Vágar. In bad weather, Vágar Airport can close, causing delays. During tourist season, Atlantic Airways offers a direct Paris-Faroe Islands flight, which is more comfortable and cheaper.
- I found a book recommendation in a guide that fascinated me after my trip: *Les collectionneurs d'images* by Joanes Nielsen. Through its sometimes caricatured characters, it offers a glimpse into Faroese mentalities from the 1950s to 1970s—attitudes that likely persist today.
In conclusion, I’ve traveled a lot and I’m tired of destinations that all start to look the same. The Faroe Islands were a delight—a country stunning in its landscape, climate, and culture, where tourism has barely altered its authenticity.
Hi there,
We’re planning a trip for October to visit Naples (6 nights) and the Amalfi Coast (5 nights). We’ve already got the historic center and the Lapis Museum in Naples, Pompeii, Herculaneum, Procida, Sorrento, and Ravello on our list. Any suggestions, addresses, or tips?
Thanks for your help.
Hello,
We’re heading to Rome from 21/09, arriving in the early afternoon, and returning on 28/09, leaving in the morning. We’ve already booked our flight tickets and our accommodation in the city center: Via Ezio.
I’d love to get your feedback on our itinerary and if there are any visits we should book right now:
Monday 21 afternoon:
Largo di Torre Argentina: a sacred spot for cats.
Tuesday 22:
The Vatican: Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel in the morning. Afternoon: St. Peter’s Basilica, the dome, and if possible, the necropolis.
Wednesday 23:
Morning: Colosseum, Roman Forum, and Palatine Hill. Afternoon: Trastevere neighborhood and the Monumento a Garibaldi.
Thursday 24:
Piazza Navona, Church of St. Louis of the French, the Pantheon, Campo de’ Fiori, Piazza Venezia, Piazza Santa Maria Maggiore, Trevi Fountain.
Friday 25:
Villa Borghese, Piazza del Popolo, Spanish Steps, Quirinale, Piazza della Repubblica, and Santa Maria degli Angeli.
Saturday 26:
Aventine and Testaccio neighborhoods, the Capuchin Crypt.
Sunday 27:
Ostia.
Monday 28:
Departure.
Are any days too packed, or should we add more visits?
Thanks for your input and help!
Cheers!
Anne
Summer 2027 is going to be Norwegian for us!
We’re heading to the Lofoten Islands first, then Senja, near Tromsø, and finally the North Cape.
We’ll likely start from northern Finland (flight tickets and car rentals are more affordable there).
I’d like to book accommodations early to have more options.
Good value-for-money places go fast in these pricey Nordic destinations...
But where should we book?
We’re planning to stay around ten nights in the Lofoten Islands.
What’s the best approach?
One place in the central part and explore from there?
One place in the south and another in the center?
Or one in the south, one in the center, and one in the north (3-4-3 nights)?
Hi there,
I’m looking for some great tips for a stay in Palma de Mallorca this summer.
I need cheap flights departing from Toulouse and affordable accommodation for 4 people.
What do you recommend?
Best regards,
I’d love to get your thoughts on the following itinerary (late May). I like to take my time in ruins and museums, and beaches don’t interest me. I’ll be staying in hostels and using public transport. Do you see any major omissions or things that aren’t worth it?
Thanks!
Day 1: Arrival in CATANIA
Day 2: Catania – visit (fish market, cathedral, Biscarri Palace, etc.)
Day 3: Mount Etna (day trip)
Day 4: Morning trip to TAORMINA, visit the town
Day 5: Alcantara Gorge (day trip) + more time in Taormina
Day 6: Trip to SYRACUSE, visit Ortigia
Day 7: Ortigia
Day 8: NOTO (day trip) (or another Baroque town?)
Day 9: Syracuse Archaeological Park + more time in Ortigia (or leave for Enna?)
Day 10: Transport via Enna? TO BE RESOLVED (long, 2 or 3 changes, limited accommodation in Enna...)
Day 11: AGRIGENTO: town and Scala dei Turchi (optional)
Day 12: Valley of the Temples + archaeological museum
Day 13: Departure for TRAPANI (4h), afternoon: town (+ salt flats?)
Day 14: Segesta (day trip) + town/Erice
Day 15: Monte Cofano Nature Reserve (hike + summit) (day trip)
Day 16: Zingaro Nature Park (coastal route out, ridge route back) (day trip)
Day 17: Departure for the AEGADIAN ISLANDS: Levanzo and Favignana (bike), overnight if possible
Day 18: Egadi Islands
Day 19: Departure for PALERMO + first visits
Day 20: The city
Day 21: The city (Monreale?)
Day 22: Options:
- Capo Gallo hike (3.5h round trip) (via Mondello)
- Cefalù (45 min by train)
Day 23: Return flight
Hello,
We’re heading to Bavaria from May 13 to 23, with a side trip to Austria.
Here’s our itinerary:
Day 1: Brussels-Munich
Day 2: Munich
Day 3: Munich and departure for Salzburg
We’ll be staying three nights in Salzburg.
Then we’ll head to Garmisch-Partenkirchen, where we’ll stay for five nights.
Visiting Munich and Salzburg isn’t too tricky.
Once in Garmisch, we’re planning a day in Innsbruck, a day for Neuschwanstein Castle, and the rest is still up in the air.
What’s really got me stumped is that we’d love to see Königssee Lake—everyone says it’s a must-see.
We’d also like to visit the Eagle’s Nest (Kehlsteinhaus), where the landscapes are supposedly stunning.
This would either be a round trip while we’re in Salzburg or on the way between Salzburg and Garmisch, but I’m guessing it’s impossible to do the drive from Salzburg to Garmisch, the Eagle’s Nest, *and* Königssee Lake all in one day.
Plus, the Alpine route between Salzburg and Garmisch seems prettier than the highway.
But honestly, I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed with the planning.
We should’ve added a stop between Salzburg and Garmisch, but the hotels are already booked.
Thanks for any advice on the itinerary and visits!
Another question: How far in advance should we book Neuschwanstein, Königssee, and the Eagle’s Nest in May?
Thanks so much in advance for your tips and ideas!
hi
I’m wondering if anyone can give me some info on how to get from Mallorca to Menorca.
Since flights are cheaper to Mallorca, I’d like to go that way.
Thanks so much for your help!
We’re planning a trip to Finland and Norway this summer, starting in Oulu to explore Lapland, heading up to the North Cape, and then making our way down to Bergen.
This route means renting a car in Finland and dropping it off in Norway. My initial searches are showing rental rates that are... astronomical—about three times the price compared to returning it at the starting point.
I’m guessing I’m not the only one wanting to visit both countries. Are there any great tips to drastically reduce the cost of renting a car?
Hi there, we’re a couple of bikers planning a trip to Majorca in June 2026, and I’d love to organize a half-day or full-day boat or catamaran outing. Which coast do you think is the nicest for this, and do you have any suggestions or personal experiences to share? Thanks in advance!
Hi there,
Does anyone know if there are any works in progress at Torcello, and if so, what type of works and how long they’re expected to last?
Thanks in advance
Hi everyone,
I’m sharing my draft itinerary with you because I just booked our flight tickets, and I feel like it’s quite late in the season. So, I’d like to be sure about my stops before reserving the hotels. I’ll be traveling alone with my two adult children. We want to prioritize outdoor walks, avoid too many indoor visits (both for budget and preference), and not spend too much time on the road.
D1: Arrival at 9 AM in Malaga, day in Malaga and overnight stay
D2: Head straight to Nerja (1-hour drive) and spend the night there
D3: Head straight to Granada (1.5-hour drive), spend the day and night there
D4: Granada. Visit the Alhambra (Nasrid Palaces tour at 5 PM) and spend the night
D5: Head to Ronda (2.5-hour drive) and spend the night
D6: White Villages and overnight in Ronda
D7: Head straight to the Costa del Sol (e.g., Estepona), spend the day and night there
D8: Return to Malaga to catch our flight
There you go! This itinerary takes into account that we’d like to do a circuit starting from Seville in a few years. That said, it’d be a shame to miss something doable from Malaga.
Questions:
Since the Alhambra visit is only at 5 PM, and we’d already have the day to explore Granada, would arriving the day before be a mistake? Or should we skip this day and dedicate it elsewhere (Costa del Sol? Head toward Tabernas?)? The old town appeals to me, but maybe the Sacromonte neighborhood isn’t essential...
Same question for Ronda: should we dedicate a full day to it, or combine Ronda and the White Villages in one day?
Note that we love wandering around villages outside, so that might answer my question! :)
Final question: Is it better to rent the car at Malaga Airport or in the city? If we rent at the airport, we’d need a hotel with parking, which doesn’t seem easy. Or stay outside the city and park for free near the center if possible? I’ve read comments about taking a taxi to Malaga and then picking up the rental car at the airport the next morning. The taxi would really need to be affordable...
Thanks so much for your feedback and suggestions for visits during this little circuit.
Have a great day, everyone!
Christine
Hello,
we’re a couple planning a 2-week road trip this August, with a must-stop (about 3 days on Skye). Any route suggestions? Hotel recommendations? Photo spots?
My husband and I are planning a trip to Ireland in September 2026.
We’ll be flying from Montreal to London, where we’ll spend three nights.
After that, we’ll head to Dublin for a few days and take trains to visit the main attractions.
Our ideal plan would be to choose hotels near train stations and take tours to the interesting spots.
Would 8 days in Ireland be enough for this kind of trip?
