Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome
FR

Translated into English.

CU Cunni Regular ·
bastosyzf450 on this site http://www.teamnegoce.com/ there's a bus that might suit you direct link: http://www.teamnegoce.com/Photos/CarsBus/Cat/extS53/ficheextS53.htm call them for the price on a German website I saw one of the same kind for around 20,000 but you can find cheaper...

for the permit see patrick26's message: http://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=466924;search_string=permis;#466924

fuel consumption budget: plan for about 25L of diesel per 100km

a few used-bus sites: http://www.teamnegoce.com/ http://www.gaby-chariots.com/ http://www.bacqueyrisses.com/
http://forum.tousencar.com
FR François57 Regular ·
Well, bad news—you'll need to change your pump... so either you manage to get going again with that hole, or you fill up the water every hour or whatever it takes to keep it from overheating, or you seal up that famous packing gland hole, but if it's a stagnation risk no big deal it can stagnate just fine while you're driving (IN MY OPINION), but that compartment shouldn't be so airtight so in my view the water will escape elsewhere....

I hope you speak German well... see you later. I'm home every weekend until August 7th theoretically
OL Oliveshanti ·
Hey, nice bus you've got! I'm about to set up a 12-tonne conversion, and since AFNOR certification is expensive, your insights would be really helpful. Looking for any addresses or ideas for a cheaper conversion than 'Narbonne Accessoires' and similar places. Maybe you're already on the road!!!!! Thanks for sharing your experiences 🙂
PI Piccin Regular ·
jcteam, I'd like to know if you still had your coach because I'd like to do the same thing with a bus. Could we get in touch? I'm from Montauban too. fatipic@cegetel.net
PI Piccin Regular ·
😐 Do you still have it for sale and for how much? Thanks, Fabrice.
DJ Djeck49 ·
HI!!

I'm planning to convert a bus (or coach) on a medium budget to place it on a piece of land and live there. It will be a vehicle that won't move and will be set up in place. I wanted to get some information about what type of vehicle to choose and about the conversion process. Basically, I want to put it on a concrete slab and bring in electricity and water like you would for a house, then set up the inside of the bus. I think I won't have any regulatory issues since it won't be traveling, but I honestly have no idea how to go about the actual conversion work. For example, how do you insulate a vehicle to live in it? Can I set it up just like a house, since it will be completely stationary? Are there any laws regarding living in a vehicle on a piece of land? THANKS in advance for all this information...

Have a good evening!

Julien
FR François57 Regular ·
Legally, you definitely won't be able to place it in a residential subdivision—you need to check the local urban plan (PLU) of the village where you're planning to settle. Really, the best option is to place it as an outbuilding attached to a house.

Generally, when you buy developed land, you're committed under subdivision rules to apply for a building permit within the year and finish your house the next year. You also can't install any 'temporary' structures on the land—like a caravan, prefab, or even gas tanks (unless they're hidden behind a bush if you don't bury them).

For older properties, if there's nothing there, it's usually not developed. And if you demolish a house, they'll ask what you're putting there instead before you get the demolition permit... A bus won't need a permit if it can move. But if you remove the wheels (or just let it rot in place), the mayor can order you to remove it.

For insulation, try rigid foam, or check out merco.aceboard.fr in the tips and tricks section on insulation—we've gotten answers to lots of things there. For water and electricity holes, it's like in a regular house, but watch out for freezing... See how they do it in construction site cabins like ALGECO...
WA Wanabee ·
🙂Hi Patrick, I can't reach you anymore—your number's no longer valid. I wanted to see your setup. Here's my email: olivmed@aol.com

Talk soon

Olivier Medina 06 83 36 63 63
DJ Djeck49 ·
Thank you francois for those clear answers!! 🙂

But still, I don't understand how people manage to put a mobile home on their private land with water and electricity, and apparently completely legally? Maybe there are permits for private camping? With a non-buildable plot but where you can request to have water and electricity brought in... It's hard asking the town hall about that when you'd just look so clueless.

Who could I ask for this kind of information? A mobile home dealer maybe?

In any case, I hope a solution exists 😕
FR François57 Regular ·
Well, the seller will tell you it's possible, but check the Local Urbanism Plan (PLU) that you can consult at the town hall... if it's on wheels, you won't need a building permit or property tax, so the bus should be fine, but watch out for subdivision regulations... you can get utilities connected without doing construction, but they might still refuse your permit... so for advice, call an engineering firm that specializes in roads and utilities. I worked in that field, so I know the system pretty well
DJ Djeck49 ·
Merci Francois,

Je suis rassuré d voir que c'est possible au moins. Je vais dès demain me renseigner, ne serait-ce pour le PLU. Grrr!!! impossible de trouver un endroit ou je peut télécharger ce foutu document qui est sensé être publique! Si je comprend bien, ce permis qui me sera surmement refusé, c'est dans le cas ou je souhaitai construire sur mon terrain par la suite? J'ai regardé le styrodur, en fait je connaissait mais ne pensait pas que ca pourrait faire l'affaire. Ceci dit, ca a une bonne résistance thermique et c'est fin! On applique ca directe sur la tole?(enfin sur des tassauts quoi...) Au fait, que pense tu d'une installation d'eau faite en plomberie PER? ca me semble correcte et economique

Merci
PI Piccin Regular ·
avez vous trouve preneur pour la vente sinon envoyez moi quelques photos interieures et quelques details tel le km prix etc...
PI Piccin Regular ·
bjr avez vous vendu votre bus, sinon donnez moi quelques details km etc et une photo merci fab
FR François57 Regular ·
en fait le PLU est propre à chaque ville, il faut en faire la demande à la mairie, c'est un plan (ou extrait de l'endroit qui t'intéresse si c'est un bled assez grand). pour les grosses communes, ça doit être dispo sur le net, mais c'est mis à jour de temps en temps (ajout d'une zone artisanale ou d'un lotissement...) une zone non constructible peut le devenir ou inversement (dans le cas d'affaissements miniers par exemple).

pour le styrodur honnêtement je ne sais pas mais va voir sur ce site : http://www.trafic-amenage.com.

sinon pour l'eau impératif de te mettre hors gel. le PER c'est les tuyaux fins armés ou le noir avec la bande (bleu pour l'eau...) dans un bâtiment, pas de problème, ça ressort un mètre sous la fondation, donc là a toi de placer un regard sous le bus ou le tuyau arrive recouvert de 1m de terre, et mettre dans le regard un gros tuyau vidangeable qui remonte, et que tu peux chauffer s'il y a gel, mais tu seras embété au niveau de la sortie de terre jusqu au plancher du bus, partie vulnérable, mais si tu met un calorifuge d'une forte épaisseur ça peut aller mais tu devras quand même vidanger ton tuyau tous les soirs en cas de fort gél. là tu peux te renseigner chez les loueurs de cantonnements de chantier. ils ont des branchements forains qui sortent de terre jusqu au bungalow, nous en général on met une bonne couche de polyane avec du gros scotch pour renforcer le tout
PI Piccin Regular ·
bonjour, le bus a t il ete vendu sinon cobien en veux tu.des photos et quelques info merci.
PI Piccin Regular ·
bjr a tous je suis nouveau sur ce forum et j aimerai avoir un bus mais mon budget et limite a 8000€.pensez qu il est possible d avoir quelque chose de propre? JE NE SOUHAITE PAS FAIRE UN PASSAGE AUX MINES DRIRE car je suis totalement allergique a tous ce gens de bureau qui pinailles afin d appliquer les lois pas claire (meme pour les ingenieurs des mines) et sans aucun humanisme. si vous aviez des camping bus a me proposer avec photos et details je suis preneur. 😉
DJ Djeck49 ·
Merci francois,

Ok, pour mettre un tuyau hors gel, il faut le mettre à 1m sous terre et protèger la partie qui sort... Compris! Je pense à une solution : lien ici

En fait, je voudrai isoler toute la partie du tuyau qui remonterai de TN-1m jusqu'au bus avec un tuyau PVC et un manchon polyethylene. Ca devrai fonctionner...

Par ailleurs, je voudrai connaitre les dimensions d'un S53 s'il te plait (sol et hauteur). Si tu peux m'aider ou si quelqu'un a des plans...

Autrement, d'autres site qui traitent du même sujet qu'ici disent (a propos de l'isolation générale) qu'il faudrai 10cm de vide au moins entre la tôle et l'isolation pour obtenir une installation efficace! Qu'en pensez-vous? en regardant brievement, on aurai ces fameux 10cm, 3 ou 4 cm pour l'isolant, sans compter le revêtement des paroies.13cm de pedu.
DE Detassigny ·
Bonjour Patrick, je souhaiterais aménager un car HEULIEZ comme vous, mais où se procurer un tel engin ? et combien cela va il me couter ? Merci
CH Christian06 Veteran ·
Here's an example I found on Google: http://www.europe-camions.com/html/avi/autocar-Heuliez-occasion-4C200375C10.html
CHRISTIAN

"Ne pas rire, ce n'est pas sérieux"
FR François57 Regular ·
Actually, I think it's better to add an extra layer of fiberglass insulation (for pipe insulation, but seal it properly) or pipe wrap like what you put around heating system pipes... otherwise you're asking for trouble... For your setup, if you go with an S53 I'm afraid it might look a bit rough, and yet it's the bus I have but as a fixed setup I think it's just okay... on the other hand, no problem moving in 3 years, lol you put flexible pipes to move it a few centimeters every month...

For insulation, a bus can be completely dismantled from the outside. In my Saviem I remove the rubber trim which reveals a metal band: screws every 20 cm (inside and outside) but when I dismantle the outside, which breaks rivets along the 70cm metal sheet height, I get access to the insulation on the whole side; whereas on the inside I'm bothered by the 20cm linoleum rise (glued to a metal curve: the bus floor is marine plywood, and along the 10 cm edge we have an angle iron profile, kind of 20x20, but quite thin, with a 10cm radius curve... so if you have a longitudinal beam right in the middle you're stuck trying to thread your styrofoam from inside... anyway, see if you use styrofoam it might be the best option. Then inside remove the hardboard panels and replace them full height with plywood or marine plywood, even if you have to get rid of that curve.

I think a lot of buses have this design.

BEN

I had my driver (who was redoing his buses himself) and according to him it's only the stuffing box that's at worst broken (it's a spring to change) or it's sealing badly... you take it out from the front of the water pump, I didn't really understand. Worst case you go to the local hardware store, it must be Bauhaus in Germany, and you find a solution... Pon Foyache...
GX GX47 Regular ·
Hey Patrick, 😉

Well there we go! 30 PAGES😎 in 2 years and almost 2 months!😮

Sure, there are pages filled with the same questions asked 20 times 🤪 due to people being too lazy to read it all, 30 pages is long 🤪😊😏but hey... that's the result of success😄 We're waiting for 50 PAGES and it's the MEGA PARTY😇😛😎🙂!? ... I'm doing the entertainment😉

Well, happy 30 for you 😄

A+ GX47 (another François, haha! )

PS: I still haven't retried uploading photos to the site, I'll try tonight with an avatar, otherwise we'll see about it in a couple of weeks.
GX47

ex transformation, homologation et utilisation d'un car en CC 9places route en utilisation pro. Plus un CC 6pl VL, plus un fourgon en cabine approfondie 6 pl VL. si je peu aider...
FR François57 Regular ·
Why not create a blog? Apparently it's easy to set up, and if it's just photos, you can expand it however you want... with the link in your signature, no need to add it every time...

Mine: http://saviem.skyblog.com

For now there's nothing at all
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
AND WHY NOT ORGANIZE A MEETUP WITH EVERYONE INTERESTED IN THIS FROM THE FORUM?

WE COULD DISCUSS CONVERTED BUSES AND TRUCKS!

EVERYONE COULD BRING THEIR DOCS, INFO, TIPS... AND THEIR VEHICLE.

Location: The Drôme, around Valence (I'm looking into a spot. I know a nice farm campsite with space). Date: A weekend in September (September 16th and 17th, for example).

Let us know!

1- How are you coming (by bus, car, truck, van, bike, train...)? 2- How many people (adults, children - what ages)? 3- Do you have somewhere to sleep (if yes, where - in your vehicle, tent, no other option...)? 4- Can you host people in your vehicle (if yes, how many)? 5- Arriving Friday evening, Saturday morning, or just for Sunday? 6- Will you stay Sunday night to leave Monday morning?

I can arrange a couple of things for the weekend. There's a riding center nearby, nice bike rides for the sporty types, etc.

We could organize workshops on regulations, bodywork, modifications, etc.

For food, everyone could bring stuff for a common table to feed their family, and we'll share all the food together. I can organize Saturday dinner (big barbecue) with everyone chipping in.

The idea is to make it family-friendly so everyone can come with their families (I'm thinking of you, gasmobil, with your whole crew!). I think it'd be nice if our spouses, who put up with our crazy projects, could also enjoy it and chat.

Come on, gasmobil, gx47, francois57, christian06, frankiss06, benhurd, etc. Let us know your plans!

I'm opening a thread right now in the 'travel forum meetups' section with the subject 'user-converted vehicles meetup', with that thread being for further discussions.

PATRICK26

LINK TO THE MEETUP THREAD: http://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=677677;#677677
PI Pierrick26 ·
Great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have a fitted-out bus, sadly, but the idea's growing on me more and more and I've read all 30 pages...me!!! LOL I'd be very interested. I'm going right now to the discussion thread to sign up THANKS PATRICK PIERRICK from ST rambert d'albon and his family...
pierrick le futur globe trotter...
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
THANKS GX47!

It's a pleasure having you with us for your insightful advice.

You're right—the converted bus is your everyday thing.

It would be great to meet up, knowing that your previous message gave me the idea to organize a wohnbus meet-up (those in the know will understand).

See you soon,

PATRICK26
FR François57 Regular ·
yeah but I don't have my class C license lol

what an excellent idea... why not if my schedule allows (I'm in Moselle, and I work traveling around in the 90) but I negotiated with my boss 3 weeks to get my license, specifically in Valence... so why not during that period. anyway, I'm touched by this personal invitation lol ;-)

hoping it'll come to fruition...

and don't forget to visit http://saviem.skyblog.com if you also have Saviems I'll add links.
GA Gasmobil Regular ·
This weekend, unfortunately I have a wedding near Pont du Gard. The idea is nevertheless excellent, just like all the ones you've had (lol), that's wonderful😉 ? Well anyway, since I haven't found a spot for my bus yet, I have an example of a build based on a Vanhool 815 that I think is pretty good, even though it's apparently designed for 2 or 3 people. http://users.skynet.be/mowe/index.htm
Eh ben, Ya du boulot!! http://www.aavl.fr http://gasmobil.skyrock.fr
MR Mrkonn Regular ·
😉Hey everyone, I'm back on the forum after a few months away. I can see there's still so much positive energy for these crazy projects, and it gives me my confidence back (lol). After several searches I found the bus that might work for me, now I need to get my license. For your idea Patrick it's excellent! 🙂🙂🙂

See you later IN THE BUS Nico
CU Cunni Regular ·
You have 464,000 euros ??? 😛 : http://www.truckscout24.fr/...=17&language=fra

Seriously though, I got my Class C (Limited) license from the army in 1988. Since I lost it (I need to get it reissued), I don't remember the exact weight limits anymore. If I remember right, the limit is 19T vehicle weight or 12.5T combined weight. Is that enough to drive a converted bus like yours ??? (check your vehicle registration 😉 )

edit: Apparently I should have unlimited Class C and Class E(C) at 12.5T combined weight... (I need to get this license renewed quickly so I don't get a ticket...)

http://www.les-permis.com/...ies.htm#equivalences Another source: http://www.ecf.asso.fr/permis#equivalences

C (issued between 20/01/75 and 01/01/85) and C Limited (issued between 01/01/85 and 01/07/90) = A1, B1, B, C, E(B), E(C) Limited to 12.5T combined weight
http://forum.tousencar.com
HO Hotware Regular ·
Bonjour, (Ouf, 30 pages à lire, ca fait du boulot !) Merci à tous les contributeurs, j'ai appris pas mal de choses :) J'ai décidé moi aussi de franchir le cap, ce matin inscription avec ma femme pour passer le permis C, je pense qu'on va s'orienter vers un Renault FR1 modèle GTX (12mètres de long et 3.55 de haut), on en trouve pas mal à moins de 15 000E TTC avec un moteur de 800 000km voir plus.Y'a t il des choses à savoir ou à vérifier ? (il y'a bien une porte conducteur dessus, meme si a priori ca n'est plus utile !)Renault ne pose pas de soucis pour les papiers ?Quelqu'un connait un bon plan en Bretagne pour faire refaire un moteur à pas trop cher ?Où trouver les plans du véhicule pour pouvoir avoir les cotes éxactes pour les plans internes ? Merci,
Aménager un Camping-car dans un bus
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
A FR1, WHY NOT?

BUT WHY A GTX?

In the FR1 range there are models with fewer features for cheaper.

What's the point of the engine AC (which eats up tons of energy and horsepower) when you're gonna have to rip out basically all the air ducts to do your conversion? And honestly, the ideal setup for a camper is a 24/220v AC that you can run off batteries, a sleeping cabin with 220v power, or a generator—without firing up your engine.

Same deal with those velvet seats—you're gonna end up junking almost all of them! Better to negotiate trading in a basic interior for just the 2 or 3 seat sets you actually want.

Same goes for the carpeting, ceiling lights, overhead luggage racks, panel trim, toilets that definitely won't be where you want them in your conversion, etc...

Why tear apart something really nice just to rebuild it? Better to start with basic stuff!

For internal plans, I think Renault should have them. As for external plans, I've got them for lots of models. Drop me a private message with your email and I'll send them over—Illustrator, CorelDraw, AutoCAD, or EPS format. Just specify which in your message.

For the paperwork side, you'll need to check with the authorities. With Renault, it'll only be necessary if you're doing major body or chassis modifications.

Final bit of advice: don't pick your bus based on looks—pick it based on what you actually want to do with it. If you've read through the 30 pages, you should get the difference between chassis and frame, for example...

Anyway, welcome to the club of crazies....

PATRICK26
TR Trmjmt ·
Hi,

I'd be keen to come meet up with you...

In a year I'm going to become a freelance entertainment worker and my colleagues are already all talking about either getting a campervan or just getting a Trafic van with a mattress... Given that we'll have scattered contracts (if we even get them!) and we generally have limited means...

As for me, I'm wondering if a bus wouldn't do the trick, and I think it's better to go with a city-type vehicle without a cargo hold, rather than a big thing with a cargo hold that will be taller! Because I'll need to go to quite a few different places, I imagine! And I already find an R21 a bit large (yes, I'll need to brush up on my classics!)

I was thinking about either a PR110 or an R312 in the long version, or maybe a Vanhool that looks smaller to me (8 meters?)... Someone showed me an S45 for €2,300 but it was somewhat dismantled, but apparently the engine works well (and the gearbox too), but isn't a front-mounted engine a handicap? (otherwise you could find SC10s by the dozen, so cheap, and they have at least 3 doors)... and regarding this 'drilling' - which models does that concern exactly? An R312 I saw has one door at the front, one in the middle and one right at the back of the bus (near the engine hatch), is that enough? Each door has 2 panels that fold down pneumatically, and there's an emergency button on each of the doors.

For now I only have a category B license, if I want to keep only a few seats and transport some gear, and especially drive on Sundays, what would you recommend????

Thanks for your replies, anyway I think I'll learn a lot at the meetup if I can make it...

Example of SC10 (it's not what was offered to me but it looks somewhat similar):

http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/renault.sc10du24.04.86.htm http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/renaultsc10.htm

And then there's the Heuliez I saw (broken down, dead battery and apparently broken gearbox, no headlights but it looks like Peugeot 604s??? Decommissioned by the transport company because it was tagged, does that excuse sound realistic???) http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/heuliez%20gx107de1991.htm
MR Mrkonn Regular ·
Hey everyone, I think I spotted the Sputnik bus for sale http://annonces.campusanuncios.com/Offresachetervendre-France-1-1.html I find it a bit pricey—it's still just an old bus.

😎
GA Gasmobil Regular ·
Welcome to the forum. The problem with FR1s is that there's no flat floor. In the middle of the seats there's a depression for people to walk through. For a conversion, that's problematic. You'd be better off looking at Volvo B10M or Vanhool instead. If your conversion can work with a two-level floor, the FR1 is fine. It's a solid bus with straightforward mechanics, very widely available so well-known, and spare parts are easy to find. Think mostly about your interior layout and choose your bus based on that. Happy hunting!
Eh ben, Ya du boulot!! http://www.aavl.fr http://gasmobil.skyrock.fr
GA Gasmobil Regular ·
Hello. Watch out for city buses!!! These are low-floor vehicles, so they're designed for frequent stops and starts. The GX 107 from Heuliez with a Renault engine is a nice bus that's a pleasure to drive and really smooth. I drove one for 5 and a half years, so I know what I'm talking about. As for fuel consumption, I have no clue since it was the boss who filled it up. It's a bus that, depending on the engine's condition, tops out at about 80 km/h when cruising smoothly on flat ground, but as soon as there's a hill, it immediately drops to 40 or 50. I'm telling you again, it's a city bus—there are only 3 automatic gears. These things aren't built for highway driving. Cheers.
Eh ben, Ya du boulot!! http://www.aavl.fr http://gasmobil.skyrock.fr
TR Trmjmt ·
Hi Gasmobil and thanks for your reply! So if I understood correctly, you're recommending an S45? I'm not sure if having the engine up front is a problem or not... neither GX107 nor PR100 nor R312 presumably?

I know they use lots of Vanhools in Monaco, some have a straight front, others have a slanted one, they look faster... I still don't know if I'll be doing much driving, but if on the motorway it only does 50 km/h on the A7 or in the Adrets in the 83... that's tough!!!

For the conversion though, I think it'll just be removing the extra seats, putting a partition between the last seats and a mobile mattress - stored up high with bungee cords... if I'm working there'll be a toilet somewhere anyway! Actually I need a very limited budget, like a used car! And also be able to lock my doors!

Do you think these 'contraptions' could work?

http://www.teamnegoce.com/Photos/camping%20car/cyberbus/fichecyberbus.htm http://www.teamnegoce.com/Photos/CarsBus/Cat/extS53/ficheextS53.htm

Old, clearly sturdy, already approved! Relatively low roof, the S53 probably more expensive (because I assume the SC10 is 'unsellable' given its setup!) but there's paintwork to change and probably need to get a Category C license given they're under 19 tons...

Otherwise given what I'm looking for (with a very simple conversion plan), what's the best type of approval, is drilling/adding a door opening mandatory, are Vanhools a good compromise (I haven't found a single one)... I read by chance that you attached importance to having the engine in the center, but the one in the Vanhools I'm talking about is located behind the driver's seat, under some passenger seats.

For the Heuliez, the one I saw is quite simple: behind the driver's seat 3 benches with 2 seats each, and on the other side 2 seats facing each other, then the posts for the central door (electric). The one at the back, like the one at the front, is also electric. I was thinking of putting a partition behind the seats, just before the door, to have 2 exits in case of fire. The possibility of fitting a moped doesn't bother me either. As for the mattress, if I'm driving I'm not sleeping in it, and if my girlfriend comes it's unlikely I'll be anywhere else, given that she also travels a lot (she's a musician...)

The R312 I saw has the same seat configuration, but I don't like it in terms of how it drives, from what I could see, the suspension is constantly being adjusted with hissing sounds, and too boxy... the engine gives off too much heat especially in summer!

But what about a Traceur, which looks like the R312, would that be a good choice? TAM (in the 06) apparently would be throwing lots out right now. And it has storage compartments so probably a long chassis...

The S45 I saw has a simple driving position compared to the others, only one electric door at the front, but narrow (small panes) plus a manual door at the back. The floor at the seat level is raised about 15 cm like an SC10 and they look really easy to remove. Gearbox like a 4L or old R5, apparently 6 speeds, offered at 15,000 F (€2,300) as-is with spare headlights. The grille is black, that must be an S45R. Possibility of putting locks on the doors, is that possible? It's been parked in the vegetation for 2-3 years (judging by the cobwebs).

Follow-up question, a bus looking like a bus, I imagine they can park where it's forbidden for normal camper vans, or do I have to count on the cops being mistaken, and also, can you park a bus at a bus stop (the areas with yellow triangles)?

Thanks again!
MR Mrkonn Regular ·
😉 If it's just for sleeping and eating, I'd recommend a good old Merc like a 508D—rock-solid. Fewer problems getting around.
TR Trmjmt ·
Hi,

You're talking about this model:

http://site.voila.fr/code_phare/508D.htm

Yeah, I know about it—a friend of mine has one, and it's always breaking down... The thing I'm counting on with a Man engine is that (hopefully!) it never really breaks down, because I don't know much about mechanics... And it's too dark—buses have plenty of light coming in, even with filters stuck on. Plus finding one in good condition isn't easy.

But some friends have gone with this solution using other vehicles—Master, Unic, Trafic, Daily—basically bigger rigs but under 3.5 tons. Or even classic old campervans, like a Trafic up front or a Citroën with a 'turtle' shell in the back. Bright, nice, but then they're breaking down every other day—they're always scared to take the highway with them, and they're fuel-thirsty... the Trafic 'turtle' does nearly 20 liters... and in case of a crash, it's a total write-off.

Anyway, I'm not in a hurry right now—I'm just waiting to see which solution I'll go with.

Thanks for your answer !
GA Gasmobil Regular ·
I'm not a fan of the central engine, but for my setup, I need storage at the back. Few buses offer that. On a tight budget, I'd recommend one of the latest S53s available at: http://www.gaby-chariots.com/frame.htm They're the buses that consume the least—17 to 20 L/100 KM. For info, bus lanes in cities are reserved for urban public transport buses. Other buses are tolerated, though that depends on the city. As for parking, it all depends on what's on your registration card after certification. VanHool doesn't allow any modifications, not even welding or drilling on the structure. As for hoping the "cops" make a mistake, don't count on it—I'm a police officer, I rarely mess up, and besides, if there's one thing that really gets to me it's being taken for a fool. Depending on the circumstances, I tend to be cooler with a guy who admits his mistake than someone making up excuses. For the question about the driver's-side door, read the first pages of the forum—your answer is there and much more. For your budget, if you're too tight you're going to buy a wreck that'll bug you all the time. Follow mrkon's advice, get a Merc, they're not all junkers, you gotta pay for it and maintain your gear, there's no secret. Your acquaintances probably went cheap. Your call. @+
Eh ben, Ya du boulot!! http://www.aavl.fr http://gasmobil.skyrock.fr
TR Trmjmt ·
Hi Gasmobil, maintenance is really my weak point, that's why I'm looking for something really solid!

I wasn't trying to fool the cops after the fact, but to deter things beforehand... Where I'm from, camping vans are completely BANNED, that's why I was talking about parking, a bus should attract less attention, besides I'm not going to run red lights with it... (though I've got to say, in Nice they don't hold back!).

Can you easily drill the S53 for a door...? Is the cost really €3,000 all-in? Who can do it to code? Can Irisbus advise me even for a Saviem? I also saw this VOLVO B 10M : http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/volvolb10m.htm It already has a driver's door! But it's tall... Does it consume a lot of fuel? Is it reliable?

Otherwise I'll go with a Merc, oh well, otherwise I don't know what "ravent" are, so I wouldn't have bought one anyway. 508 or 409...

As for my friends' campers, yeah they went for the cheapest option, one spent €4,000, the other €5,000 (for the Trafic setup) and that was still the cheapest! That kind of Citroën must be 30 years old... Otherwise, the guy who has a basic Master with a bed right on the floor never has any problems except for bodywork and damage reports! His rig has over 200,000 km and no issues. It's bare metal, so he really just sleeps in it; the rest of the time he's at his friends' places. Most of the crew still has just a regular car though... The nice thing about the Master is that it's easier to park than a car-and-caravan combo.

Shorter with pre-existing bodywork, there's this: RENAULT MASTER 2, 5 L D ; RENAULT JN1E124 CARRIER ; MERCEDES 409 D 37 (~€7,800!) http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/renaultmasterhandi.htm http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/carrier.renaultjn1e24.htm http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/mercedes.409d.de09.84.htm If it's just a matter of removing the seats—whether it's the Merc or the Renaults—that should be easier? And if the Renault has 9 seats, does it accept a Category B license or do I still need to downclass it, and if so to a normal vehicle (under 3.5 tons) or necessarily to Commercial?

Well, I'll figure it out... or the 2 I've linked are worth it financially or I'll give up on a bus, too much hassle... Thanks for the advice!!
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Hey there...

A bus conversion is a real project, like converting a barge, for example.

What I mean is that nothing is simple:

A bus is a big toy that you need to know how to handle without getting tired of it. There are maintenance constraints you don't have with a regular car (annual inspection with a brake bench test to make sure you avoid a failed re-test, air circuit checks, etc...), constraints in your choice of vehicle (forget city buses, self-supporting bodies, bellows doors, etc...). The only solid bases are chassis vehicles, well-powered, with standard or louvered doors and whose manufacturer is still around (forget IRISBUS for a Saviem that left a group factory—Vénissieux for the S45/53, which has been closed since!—before it was even called IRISBUS. Today, IRISBUS is Iveco! Renault sold them its stake in the whole mess, so imagine how much they care about a 20 or 30-year-old Saviem or Renault!).

Don't start with a bus that was "abandoned" by a transport company! You risk having major repairs to do on a bus that hasn't been driven in a long time (they say a heavy vehicle that hasn't run for 3 months has to go through the mechanics shop before hitting the road—the brake shoes might've frozen, the air and hydraulic circuits, without pressure, might have leaks, the tires might have flat spots from sitting with 12 tons of empty weight on them, etc...).

As for the conversion itself, whatever you do, your bus won't be a bus anymore once you remove the first seat, and you'll have to go through the legal approval process (DRIRE) as a must.

It's a real project that few people tackle. A few professionals take it on, and I do mean "a few"....

A cheap bus doesn't exist! If you pay €3,000 for one (that's mine and it's exceptional—I explained why earlier in the thread), you'll definitely have additional costs. For mine, €1,500 for tires and I paid with a 40% discount and got free installation (thanks to Luc, my buddy who runs a tire shop!), €1,100 in mechanical repairs (sway bar bushings, pinion seal, filters, a hose acting up, a small air leak on a suspension valve, plus a few odds and ends).

So before I even started the conversion, the bus had cost me €5,600! And that's a great deal for the price and condition!

Oh, I forgot the delivery, which didn't cost me the driver's labor, but still €400...

So a decent bus runs you, or comes out to, a minimum of €6,000 to €7,000... I'm not talking about a pretty bus, I'm talking about a bus that runs and passes inspection without breaking a sweat!

So a Van Hool (T 815 for example) costs €10,000! If it goes for less, it's because there will be work needed... or the seller likes losing money.... For an FR1 it's €12,000 to €15,000.

And then there's the conversion (so, the "start" of the headaches!), compliance with the regulations, getting the nice engineer from the inspection authority to understand, making choices between 12V, 24V, or 220V power, the level of autonomy (and thus the partitioned tanks and their positioning...), the windows (to cover or not to cover...), the load retention partition if needed, seating, and I could go on...

There's not one person who managed to do it in less than 8 months....

So, that's a summary. But I'll say it again: it's a real project that can't be done quickly, can't be done without a budget, and can't be done on a shoestring....

Look at the date when I opened this discussion thread....

There are buses that are converted but don't pass inspection, or abandoned halfway through, and it's just money wasted.

I took it on, but I was running a company in exhibition and trade show work, so for the interior conversion I have the skills in carpentry, electrical work (my base trade), and plumbing. And yet it's been a mess! There's not one person who got their registration without headaches—or they're just forgetting the struggles....

As for vehicles, I've had my licenses for a while (so I know "a bit" about the world of heavy vehicles), and I'm at over forty registrations (so that many vehicles, including 2 American cars, a VW Beetle, a Triumph Spitfire, a Simca Chambord... and the experience of all the headaches that come with it!). I remember, among other things, the sheet metal worker who redid the fender of an early-model Dauphine Ondine, the inspection officer who didn't want me to cover up but to remove the third brake light (what do I do with the hole?) on a Pontiac Firebird when the law requiring it (the third brake light!) had just passed and we were waiting for the enforcement decree, hunting down rod bearings for the Simca Chambord's V8 and installing rally Samba rod bearings in their place (thanks Riquet!), etc...

Look, I'm not trying to demoralize anyone. Several have made it to the finish line... thankfully!

But it's going to become my nickname if I keep saying "you can't just do anything".....

You have to take your time with projects like this... right, gasmobil for example (who's itching to get started!).

Alright, kisses to all, and as jchépluki said: with a brave heart, nothing is impossible....

Another person said: we redid all the calculations—it seems impossible. We just have to try!

PATRICK26
FA Fantomatik ·
Hey, I'd really like some advice. Over the July 14th weekend, some jerks broke into my bus and smashed a window. I found the glass completely shattered. I swear I was so mad... Now I've found a used window because a new one would've cost me 300 euros!!! Now the thing is, I need to install it and I don't know how to do it. The bus is an S 53. If you could give me some advice on how to install it, that'd be great. Thanks in advance!
DJ Djeck49 ·
Hi!

I'd like to know the floor and height dimensions of an s53. Can someone help me?

Have a good day

Djeck49
FR François57 Regular ·
S53 R: 2, 25 x 11, 40 x 3, 10.

(marked on the plate I have 2.25 but in reality there's 2.36m in interior width so plan for 2.45 exterior)

hoping this has been helpful
DJ Djeck49 ·
Great, and thanks. Is 3.10 m the height from ground level or from the terrain?
FR François57 Regular ·
well it's the height you need to fit into a warehouse...but when you're working inside it, you don't need a stepladder, I can guarantee that...a rig is 3.42m if anyone wants to know. on the other hand, remember to add the height of any roof rack or solar panels you might have, basically all your equipment...

but in France the maximum height is 4.10m and bridges with less than 4.50m clearance are marked with a sign (but I'm not completely sure about those exact limits)
TR Trmjmt ·
Hey Patrick26 and thanks for your replies – I think I can definitely say that bus conversion is not for me! I'd rather give up...

Based on your detailed explanation, even if I bought one already converted, if it doesn't get driven for a few months there'll be serious problems... so I'm ruling out the S53 and SC10 that have already been reworked and rebodied with new paperwork...

That leaves me with just the Master or the Merco 503... it's crazy how that narrows things down! I mean, reading some posts I was thinking "actually, it doesn't seem that complicated after all!" but your post really puts things in perspective: you definitely know your stuff way better than I do in these areas...

Good luck to those who want to keep going!
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
If you want to start with a light vehicle, see if you can find a Master with a refurbished moving-van body on a flat-floor chassis. The bodywork rusts easily (the plans are known to all body shops, and it's just as reliable as an old Mercedes that's overrated just because it's called a Mercedes!

Check out this kind of vehicle, maybe with a different base?

http://cgi.ebay.fr/master-T-35-D-caisse-demenagement_W0QQitemZ260010756361QQihZ016QQcategoryZ79054QQcmdZViewItem

PATRICK26
TR Trmjmt ·
OK, thanks! Things to add: windows all around + 1 side door. It'll need a B license and 3.5 tons declared, plus a decent GVWR, I'd say. Plus it's nice and square—I'm wondering if I shouldn't add a fixed bed too (if I can get one!!!)... but can't weld it (it's aluminum).

I'd spotted another bus: http://www.gaby-chariots.com/pages_offres/renaultmasterhandi.htm but if I can avoid the DRIRE red tape, I think I'll pass on that one. From the looks of it, it'd probably be classified as private passenger transport anyway...

For someone inexperienced like me, I reckon this is the best choice. Hope it's a 2.5L diesel. And since it's smaller than a truck, I know a mate who can sort out the mechanical stuff and handle the maintenance!

Cheers! !
GA Gasmobil Regular ·
Good decision, I think. I wasn't trying to discourage you—patrick 26 was more radical than me, and he was right. Skip the headaches and long procedures. A moving van box is your best bet, I reckon; it's a cubic box with square corners, so it's easy to set up. Personally, I'd focus more on checking the box than the engine (though don't ignore the engine either), because an engine can be repaired or replaced, but if the chassis is all eaten away by rust... you can't just replace the box, or you'd have to replace the whole vehicle. Good luck!
Eh ben, Ya du boulot!! http://www.aavl.fr http://gasmobil.skyrock.fr

Similar discussions

You might also like