Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome
FR

Translated into English.

FA Fanoo ·
Thanks for all the info you provided, now I just need to get it inspected to be sure...
AL Albator115 ·
Hey sgoub......

Here in Paris; I have a great tip for you about buying your bus—a legit and friendly place. I bought mine there, it's an '85 with 500,000 km for 1,500. It's in great condition... and compared to the 508, it runs!!!

Fuel consumption really varies depending on how you drive and what RPMs you run the engine at, but figure about 25-30l.

I'm in Tours at the moment but I'm thinking of heading south for the winter, bbbrrrrrr. If you want, maybe we can try to meet up!

In the meantime, if you want some photos, no problem!!

Safe travels!

Xavier!
BE Benhurd ·
What's your address in Paris? I'm interested

A bus for 1500? I'm very interested in that!

And well, if you've got some photos, that's always interesting

You can contact me at benhurd@benhurd.net

I'll obviously need help figuring out how to do the conversion to keep everything above board!!

Thanks a lot

benjamin😛
KH KhaO ·
I've read everything you've said from the start, and it's really interesting... 🙂 I'm thinking of buying a bus and fitting it out afterwards. I've looked into the addresses you recommended... Can you give me some advice on buying the bus? Regarding the Kassbohrer S140, is it sensible to buy one... in terms of parts, are they easy to find...? I found one for €2,300, but it has 650,000 km on it. Is it worth it? The thing is, it's got more style than the S53 (and that really matters to me)... I'm also looking into an S53M Saviem—what can you tell me about it? It supposedly has 220,000 km for €2,500??? Thanks for your valuable advice. 😉

PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Hi there,

When choosing your bus, keep these points in mind:

For a camper conversion, avoid buses with exposed frames (frameless) as they're harder to convert and more difficult to get through inspections.

A vehicle with air suspensions will be much more comfortable than one with leaf springs;

Pay attention to the transmission too; on the same model you might have either a short (made for mountains) or long transmission. With a short transmission, watch out for fuel consumption and often reduced top speed. The same vehicle assigned to school shuttle service in Bordeaux won't have the same transmission as one from Briançon. Depending on the transmission, your bus might be limited to 80 km/h, whereas other transmission types will let you do 90 km/h on the motorway with low fuel consumption.

A bus with a driver door is preferable; inspectors increasingly require it. If the bus doesn't have one, you'll need to cut one in! Average cost is around €2 to €3,000!

A rear door is essential and access to it must be via a corridor at least 45 cm wide with no doors or obstructions. So to be clear, if you have a bedroom at the back with a side door opening into it, that's a mess! So you should go for a side door in front of the rear axle.

Also check that a trailer hitch can be installed (it's not possible on all buses). To check this, just look at the manufacturer's plate to see if the GVWR field is filled in. If only the GVW field is filled in, no trailer is possible, not even a cargo trailer or motorcycle rack!

Some tour buses have what's called a panoramic layout; avoid these. This term refers to buses with a sloped floor so all passengers can see the scenery! To convert these, you basically have to double the flooring!

Curved glazing (Mercedes 303 type) is impossible to seal at a reasonable cost.

A bus isn't a truck, so watch the weight. Choosing a bus with big storage compartments to haul lots of stuff is a good idea, but you need to make sure that once converted, you'll still have enough payload capacity to load it! Plus, the bigger the storage, the taller the bus. Choosing a bus over 3.40 m tall will block access in some places (city buses are under 3.20 m tall for a reason)

Buses aren't designed to be loaded onto ferries. In fact, their front and rear overhangs prevent some models from going up the access ramps. If you want to use your bus for Corsica, England, or the North Cape for example, choose a bus with good ground clearance (or manual suspension height adjustment) and short or heavily beveled front and rear overhangs.

Some buses are equipped with heating that works with the engine off (like Webasto for example). This is a plus because you won't need to install a separate heating system for the camper. Plus, some support a boiler accessory for hot water production.

And then you need to watch out for annoying details like inspection hatches in the floor, poorly placed heating ducts, wheel wells too high above the floor, etc., that will prevent certain conversions.

So, you need to proceed by elimination....

That leaves Renault Saviem PR and S Ponticelli Carrier (some) Buses on DAF MK205 chassis and similar etc...

Now you need to know that any bus can be converted; but not necessarily on a reasonable budget.

Let anyone who converts a double-decker Scania, a Bova or a Neoplan on a decent budget and is sure they can get it certified explain to me how they plan to do it..... Even the professionals refuse to touch them!

Good luck in your search. There's no magic solution. You need to think about what you want to do with your converted bus and find the right base vehicle.

PATRICK26
KH KhaO ·
Thanks Patrick for these tips...😉 I'll take these points into account one by one and make sure I don't spread myself too thin... I lived for 2 years in a raised Transit, extended with a pop-top, really well set up but I didn't do the conversion myself... I'd like now to be able to create an interior that meets my needs... and as you say, since I'm going to travel in a motorhome, ...🙂 That's why I'm giving myself about 1 year to convert a bus of my choice to live in and travel, of course... I've already traveled in Asia (Cambodia, Laos, Thailand) by air and I'd like later to tackle the project of going there by road route...😎, but for that I need to be well prepared. For that, I still have a few years ahead of me... I need some driving experience... To get a bit more clarity on the Kassbohrer S140, can you tell me if we can easily find parts in France? According to Bacq., he confirms yes...??? but it still has 650,000 km??? unfortunately I can't go see it right away; I'm not far from Avignon,... and right now here we're finishing the grape harvest... I'm going to look deeper into the Saviem S53M based on everything you told me... Thanks and hope to hear from you soon😉
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Hey, I just found an equipped S140 on a European heavy vehicle sales site worth checking out. Here's the page link: http://www.truckscout24.de/search/detail.asp?vehicletype_id=6&vehicle_id=2830098&make=0&page=1&language=fra

Pretty long URL, but definitely worth a look! The site is: http://www.truckscout24.de

For parts, Bacqueyrisses is right; there are plenty...

Go on, I'll let you go dream about the address I just gave you...
SP Sputnick Regular ·
Hi

With my 1974 Saviem S45 bus converted into a registered motorhome,

I consume between 22 and 24 liters per 100km.

Oil changes and maintenance every 10,000km (20 liters of oil)

Parts are available pretty much everywhere, but it never breaks down (since I went through and fixed everything).

No axle tax.

Collector insurance €35 a year😛, a bit pricey🙂 (standard registration)

For the fresh water tank situation, I personally went with rectangular 100-liter tanks (motorhome-type) that I connected together. (400L fresh water, 200L greywater, and 50L for the toilet) – available from motorhome accessory shops.

It's REALLY interesting to collect motorhome accessory catalogs – they give you great ideas, especially about what's available out there. (Narbonne Accessories, etc...)

I'd strongly advise against putting fresh water tanks in the storage compartments, because in winter they can freeze!

Go for the upper spaces instead (under a bed for example) – it'll stay warm, and the water pump won't have to work as hard.

For greywater, you can add salt, so it's fine for the compartments.

If you're not heading to the mountains in winter, a good solution is to put the fresh water tanks on the roof rack (that's fine too)

I STRONGLY advise against – or even forbid – using non-reinforced soft plastic hoses for water; they expand in summer and can even burst. (Really! 😕)

The best for piping: COPPER!

Just use some plastic hose for the drainage.

PS parts: Europe's largest bus/coach scrapyard: Biéron Montélimar N7, about 10 hectares of complete trucks or parts, a bit pricey but they've got everything!

If you have any questions, no worries.

PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
FANTASTIC BUILD! Finally someone with a finished project!

How have you set up your interior? Were you able to avoid drilling through the driver's door? What mistakes won't you repeat if you had to start over?

As for Bierron, watch out for that character! I know him and he's no pushover! I'm 40km away and I didn't buy my bus from him. With an identical model, I found one in much better condition for almost 3 times less...

But you're right, it's an Ali Baba's cave of buses... but it's for those who know what they're doing. The buses are sold as-is, not inspected, and he sells so many in Africa in batches of 10 or 20 that he doesn't care about single sales! (The last time I was there, he had a batch of 22 heading to Senegal all packed with spare parts).

Spare parts, though, are sorted and inspected.

Good evening everyone,

PATRICK26
SP Sputnick Regular ·
"AWESOME BUILD! Finally someone with a completed project."

Thanks

"How is your interior set up?"

A picture is worth a thousand words:



"Were you able to avoid drilling through the driver's door?"

I've never heard of that! Maybe it's because my bus is from 1974, but anyway it passed inspection at the Mines (approved as a special case) in 2002...

"What are the mistakes you wouldn't repeat if you had to do it over again?"

In particular, the clean water tanks I put in the storage areas (400 liters) - I'd prefer to have them under my bed to avoid freezing in the high mountains.

Non-reinforced plastic pipes are CRAP!!! Avoid them.

Regarding Bieron, I did say in my post that it's expensive, but it has everything...

Ciao, gilles.
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Hey Sputnik,

Regarding the driver door, the authorities now require a driver door opening if the rear door doesn't lead into the equipped section. VASP certification is now very difficult to obtain for a motorhome conversion. The authorities are directing people toward motorhome conversion, which requires an independent driver access separate from passenger access. For mine, I tried everything, but it didn't work – the file went all the way up to the Ministry of Transport and came back without derogation approval for this door! As for VASP certification, the authorities set the PTAC at the empty weight plus 400 kg, because this certification prohibits the transport of any cargo! (For them, a VASP is a workshop truck, a platform truck, etc... and must run empty because goods transport is regulated – RTE – and a heavy vehicle without a tachograph cannot transport anything).

My bus is like yours, with a cargo section, and it was very difficult to get certification without a tachograph for that reason.

But from one department to another, the DRIRE doesn't have the same opinion....

That's the reason for my questions.

Have a good evening,

PATRICK26
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Sputnik,

Could you share the procedure you used to attach an image to an email?

I've tried without success, and some folks on this forum wanted to see my plans. I didn't realize it was even possible...

Thanks in advance

PATRICK26
SP Sputnick Regular ·
Hi,

reading your post, I'm DOUBLY lucky—I was never told about driver's door issues (back in 2003), and my rear door opens onto a van I can load equipment into (about 16m³). Plus, I kept my original GVWR on my registration—14.5 tons.

And no tachograph either.

Ciao.
TH Thony ·
Hi everyone

So I've recently become the owner of a Berliet PR14A bus (no turbo) from '76, fitted out and registered as a motorhome. I'm looking for any documents and advice about this bus. Mine has the unique feature that I can fit my car inside it (a Golf 2) 😉 Of course I lose some living space, but not too much

I don't know how to upload photos, so tips on that would be welcome too

Cheers, Thony
SP Sputnick Regular ·
Hey,

To insert images, you need to have a web account (like Free, Multimania, etc.) or upload the images via FTP.

Explorer handles this really well with drag-and-drop if you go to preferences and enable "FTP".

Then, once uploaded, just click the image insertion icon when you reply to a message here, paste the photo URL between the tags that automatically appear when you click the image insertion icon...

Cheers
AN Ankor ·
🙂Hi, we're Mélaine and Tibo.

Finally some info, thanks!

We're planning to buy a Mercedes 613D minibus, PTAC 6.9t, 30 seats from 1981. But that's where the problems start! We thought about removing 20 seats, keeping just 10, and leaving the rest of the bus empty for now, and then gradually converting it into a campervan. But before we take the plunge on this adventure, we want to find out if it's all possible. We called the DRIRE, and found out that we'd need a partition between the passenger area and the utility area of the bus, which would also mean revising the emergency exits. That option doesn't work for us.

The question is about Mélaine's Class D license and what she can drive with it:

Can she drive a bus reclassified as a heavy-duty vehicle (under 10 passenger seats)?

Can she drive a bus reclassified as a heavy-duty campervan?

There are also two terms we're having trouble understanding: At what point does a vehicle become NSPC or VASP? And what's the difference?

Thanks for your answers and safe travels to everyone!

Mélaine and Tibo
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Hello everyone,

we're back to the door problem! In the past, it was possible to get an NSPC classification (not specified), i.e. a waste classification that allowed, with or without waivers, to get pretty much anything homologated (with a bit of luck and an understanding inspector or one you'd "greased"!).

Today, that's over! The inspector no longer registers vehicles in the name of the regional authority, but in their own name! For this reason, in case of an accident due to an improper registration, their liability can be engaged. So, no more slip-shod homologations.

Now, let's get to the heart of the matter.

A bus goes to the regional authority every 6 months, a truck every year, and the state needs money and to keep its civil servants busy, so to get a downclassing they're tough.

Moreover, a bus is not designed to carry equipment, so they won't homologate a vehicle with a van compartment as a light commercial vehicle. So it's 8 passengers plus driver max to get another type of homologation.

And there, given the risk of the inspector's liability, nothing more gets any waivers.

Several options remain possible

1st (the simplest today) VASP homologation (specially equipped vehicle) motorhome type (there's also workshop truck, advertising podium truck, aerial lift truck, etc... but that doesn't concern us) In this case, the regulations require a driver's door (no requirement for the front passenger!), and a door giving direct access to the equipped part (which must be at least 45cm wide and 1.59m high if I'm not mistaken). So the door giving into the van part cannot be counted! The front door either because it doesn't give direct access to the equipped part. Furthermore an emergency exit of at least 2500 cm² must exist on the opposite face from the door. Doors must have access less than 45cm from the ground (so it's impossible to simply cut a door at chassis level, you have to build stairs!).

That's for the bodywork. For the interior, furniture corners must have at least a 3.2cm radius, etc... There, read sputnik's message (above) which gives the reference documentation for interior fitting (veritas). The advantages of this type of homologation remain important; no more tachograph, you can drive on Sundays, one annual vehicle inspection, possibility of resale without any worries, etc...

The 2nd is to manage to get an NSPC. At first glance, it's less restrictive, but the thing has become almost impossible, and will make your vehicle a hybrid thing that will pass borders poorly, for which ferries will ask you all sorts of questions to board your vehicle, etc... Because an NSPC can be anything and nothing so can contain dangerous materials, have a weight outside standard rules, have an unconventional driving position (which could prevent certain maneuvers), have a height or length out of class, etc... I'm sparing you the rest! Moreover it keeps—almost always—a tachograph and the ban on driving on Sundays.

Today the professionals of specific fitting put 2-3 months minimum to prepare the file, the plans, etc. But it took me 6 months to get all the stamps. I only started the work after, and fortunately, because if I'd followed my first plans, I'd never have gotten homologation. Moreover, if directives come to modify the regulations, my file is valid for 1 year (which allows me to do the work and not worry about the final inspection).

For Melaine's Class D license, several possibilities (I'm not talking about military licenses, the young lady shouldn't be concerned!!?!!) Depending on the date of issue she can, or cannot, drive a heavy vehicle and still depending on the date, she can, or cannot, be limited to a certain tonnage (7.5t for example). But there all the answers are on her license: If she has something in the license box c it can be fine, if there's nothing, she can only drive light commercial vehicles! And it will be impossible for her to get an equivalent heavy vehicle license since the RTE reform (European transport regulations). Also watch out for the presence of the letter E, without it, only baggage trailers (bearing the same registration plate as the towing vehicle and limited to 500 or 750 kg—I have a gap!)

But it would be interesting to ask the local prefecture because a heavy vehicle not carrying goods for its own account or for third-party account, can, perhaps... (but perhaps I'm overstepping myself...).

That's what I can contribute to your discussion.

And if there are other questions... use the usual channel!

PATRICK26
AN Ankor ·
🙂Hi Patrick, and thanks for your reply.

Let us describe our future mini campervan a bit more: It's L=7m, w=2.45m. There's a manual driver door, a pneumatic front passenger door, and then 1 double-hinged rear door spanning the whole back of the bus with a large step. It's completely glazed (3 large bus windows on each side, 2 at the rear).

in this case, the regulations require a driver door (no requirement for the front passenger!), and a door giving direct access to the converted section (which must be at least 45cm wide and 1.59m tall, if I'm not mistaken). so the door leading into the cargo section cannot be counted! the front door either, since it doesn't provide direct access to the converted section. furthermore, an emergency exit of at least 2500 cm² must exist on the opposite side from the door. doors must have access less than 45cm from the ground (so it's impossible to just cut a door at chassis level, you need to build stairs!).

We're not sure we understood correctly. Based on the description we gave, do you think the current doors will be sufficient for 10-seater bus homologation with campervan conversion (without cargo section)?

To drive a heavy-duty campervan bus, we need to call the prefecture on Monday. We'll keep you updated.

Another question: Once a file is established and approved, will we be allowed to drive the minibus normally while we do the conversion bit by bit?

Do the authorities accept vehicles in the middle of conversion? Our first step: remove 20 seats so the registration reflects 10 seats. The authorities told us that if we planned to keep the rest of the bus empty (utility), we had to put a partition between the passenger seats and the cargo section (we had told them we wanted to transport equipment). Now that we're planning to make it a campervan, can we remove the 20 seats without partitioning and submit a conversion file afterwards?

Are we required to go to the authorities in our region or can we go somewhere else (we were told that all authorities were different, meaning more or less lenient)?

That's all for now but we'll have plenty of other questions later.

Thanks to you and to everyone else who's written on this forum because you've already helped us so much. 😉 (What a blessing this forum is)

All the best,

Mélaine and Tibo
BO Bombaklak ·
Hey Patrick, I'm new here I've got a Renault Midliner S100 that I've completely converted into a video studio (I even managed to get it reclassified as a VASP caravan), and I'm currently installing solar panels to charge my batteries for running the studio. I live in it too. I'm planning to spend the season in Serrechevalier where I'll be working this winter.

I'm also putting in a wood stove — I know it's forbidden, but as long as you remove it before you go through inspection, it passes without any problem, and hey, save the cash!

But (and here's the catch) I'm sick of fighting with my insurance company (AGF), who's quoting me rates that are way too expensive for my taste. Anyway, I'm looking to switch insurers and I need information about insurance companies.

If you've got any info, I'm interested. Can't stand those AGF guys (Automobiles for Fat Asses). I don't have a ton of money — I'm on RMI right now and I'm struggling. HELP!!!

Thanks in advance!!!
SP Sputnick Regular ·
Hi Ankor,

To drive a downclassed bus as a VASP with under 9 seats, no worries—do like I did and ask for a stamped document from the prefecture. I got mine in Rennes.

You can (unofficially) install the bare minimum to get VASP status (when you pass MINES inspection, near the end of the process, before you get your registration)—a stove, water source, a bed... They can't tell if what you added was already there since the technical inspections afterward focus on mechanics.

However, since you need Veritas certification (standards 56 200 and more recent), you'll need at least what I've mentioned.

Also, to clarify: my bus passed through MINES (VASP) in 2003 without any issues—it had a cargo section, no side driver door, no tachograph, and a Class D license.

Try to plan exactly what you want to accomplish—it'll be easier to help you.

Read my different posts on the site (especially here)—maybe you'll find some useful info there...

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