Why do we always think that "ELSEWHERE" is better than our own country? (page 13 of 23)

Who's talking about moving abroad? 😉

Michel

Hello, I really think that when you decide to move abroad, you don’t necessarily consider all the legal, financial, or administrative aspects... and yet, the risks of disappointment are very real—just from daily life and routine, unless you have a job (the best-case scenario) that you’re passionate about. Geli

Good evening,

I find it rather tactless of you to have altered your post after my reply by adding: "Besides, migrants, for example, are rushing to Poland and Hungary, even Austria, where they’re welcomed with open arms.... As you say, they’re so much more at ease there..."

I have nothing against those countries, and it’s a bit too easy to criticize them from France—our press does a fine job of that already. My opinion and experience lead me to be more nuanced.

Michel

We were talking about Europe. I’ve always struggled a bit with this French blindness. And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit some temperaments better. For those who don’t like centralized state power, France isn’t an ideal fit.

Michel

I wasn’t aware that Austria, Hungary, and Poland weren’t in Europe. My apologies...

good evening,

We’re allowed to have other conceptions—more liberal, more individualistic, more open on moral and religious questions... Without wanting to lecture the world, while having a culture that fits the nation.

ehh, unless I’m mistaken, isn’t that called utopia? 😏 And I’ll come back to my question about *bohneur* (which no one really answers except Mirandamouse, who’s happy taking Russian classes)—does traveling to utopia lead to happiness? Sorry if I’m over-conceptualizing too 😎

Utopia? Nah, not at all. Want a list? 😏

Michel

Good evening,

We’re allowed to have other conceptions—more liberal, more individualistic, more open on moral and religious questions... Without wanting to lecture the world, while having a culture that fits the nation.

Uhh, if I’m not mistaken, isn’t that called utopia? 😏 And I’ll come back to my question about *bohneur* (which no one really answers except Mirandamouse, who’s content taking Russian classes)—does traveling to utopia lead to *bohneur*? Sorry if I’m over-conceptualizing too 😎

Good evening,

We’re allowed to have other conceptions—more liberal, more individualistic, more open on moral and religious questions... Without wanting to lecture the world, while having a culture that fits the nation.

ehh, unless I’m mistaken, isn’t that called utopia? 😏 And I’ll come back to my question about happiness (which no one really answers except Mirandamouse, who’s content taking Russian classes)—does traveling to utopia lead to happiness? Sorry if I’m over-conceptualizing too 😎

Uh, there’s no connection between happiness and taking Russian classes. For me, happiness is something I haven’t known what it is for a long time, and I’m not chasing after it.

=> falls under Morality, in short, saying what is good and what is bad, creating dichotomies between these two notions.

=> "It's better..." => is that absolute good, in short, the pursuit of happiness at all costs?

=> If everyone on this forum is searching for absolute happiness, then what is happiness?

=> Is happiness found elsewhere in Switzerland, Africa, the USA...?

Are you prepping for the 2018 philosophy baccalaureate topics? 😏

And I come back to my question about happiness (which no one really answers except Mirandamouse, who’s content with taking Russian classes)—does traveling to utopia lead to happiness?

I don’t know where it leads others, but for me, it leads straight to my bookshelf (comic book fans will understand). More seriously, what a strange question! What is utopia? What is happiness? We’re not out of the woods yet...

Sorry if I’m over-conceptualizing too much

Oh, barely! [;]

Because, let's be clear, France is still a country that's not very conducive to people who love freedom

We should ask Turks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Eritreans, North Koreans, Iranians, Burmese, Libyans, Cubans, Chinese, Iraqis, Russians, Afghans, Saudis, and so on... the list is too long...

And as Mariecurry points out, we should also ask women or LGBTQ+ people.

Atheists, agnostics...

Congratulations, you’re doing a fantastic job representing the official line. 🙂 You’d probably be quite surprised, though, to hear their actual response. It’s very, very far from what you assume.

You’re absolutely refusing to see that France is a highly centralized state and far from liberal—from any perspective.

Michel

Because, let’s be clear, France is still a country that’s not exactly welcoming to people who love freedom

You’d have to ask Turks, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Eritreans, North Koreans, Iranians, Burmese, Libyans, Cubans, Chinese, Iraqis, Russians, Afghans, Saudis, and... well, the list goes on...

And as Mariecurry points out, ask women or LGBTQ+ folks.

Atheists, agnostics...

You too. 😇

A North Korean, an Iranian, or a Saudi would explain to you with the same sincerity as yours that their country is the best and that those who don’t see it are crazy. Wanna bet? Have you ever tried it? I have. 😏

Michel

You too.😇

Why are there North Koreans, Saudis, or Iranians fleeing their countries? 😇

And not to save 3 € in taxes... 😏

Want to meet Tatra? 😮

You have a really simplistic view of the world; it's quite surprising for someone who must have heard and observed a lot. In any case, if some people leave those countries, it hasn’t escaped you that France wasn’t their top destination. 🙂

Michel

So why are there North Koreans, Saudis, or Iranians fleeing their countries? 😇 And not to save 3 € in taxes... 😏 Want to meet Tatra? 😮

Good evening,

I find it rather tactless of you to have edited your post after my reply by adding: "Besides, migrants, for example, are rushing to Poland and Hungary, even Austria where they’re welcomed with open arms.... As you say, they’re so much more at ease there..."

I have nothing against those countries, and it’s a bit too easy in France to criticize them—the media does a fine job of that already. In my opinion, and from my experience, I tend to be more nuanced.

Michel

We were talking about Europe. I’ve always struggled a bit with this French blindness. And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit certain temperaments better. For those who don’t like centralized state power, France isn’t the right fit.

Michel

I wasn’t aware that Austria, Hungary, and Poland weren’t in Europe. My apologies...

I don’t understand what you’re talking about? Only seven minutes passed between my message and your reply.

Let's just say I misread, then. 😉

Michel

Good evening,

I find it rather inelegant of you to have edited your post after my response by adding: "Besides, migrants, for example, are rushing to Poland and Hungary, even Austria where they’re welcomed with open arms.... As you say, they’re so much more at ease there..."

I have nothing against those countries, and it’s a bit easy in France to criticize them—the media does a fine job of that. My opinion and experience lead me to be more nuanced.

Michel

We were talking about Europe. I’ve always struggled a bit with this French blindness. And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit certain temperaments better. For those who don’t like centralized state power, France isn’t an ideal country.

Michel

I didn’t realize Austria, Hungary, and Poland weren’t in Europe. My apologies...

I don’t understand what you’re talking about? Only seven minutes passed between my post and your reply.

Anyway, if some people leave these countries, it hasn’t escaped your notice that France wasn’t their top destination. Smile

Far more so than countries that are truly oppressive...😇

Have you ever seen a gay Saudi take refuge in Iran?

It’s more like Ben Ali-style immigration between totalitarian countries... We stick together.

Totally agree with Tatra about freedom, at least if we stay in Europe. Obviously, if you're looking at places like Saudi Arabia or North Korea... Otherwise, elsewhere isn't necessarily better, but saying everything is better in France... well, maybe, and even then, only for those who live solely on various benefits without ever working (again, I'm only talking about Europe—you have to compare what's comparable).

More seriously, what a funny question! What is utopia? What is happiness? We haven’t gotten there yet...

I totally agree, and like Vladimir and Estragon, we’re all just going in circles. Besides, as Galileo said, that’s why the Earth is round. 😛

As for the connection to utopia, in my opinion, humanity has always progressed thanks to utopian ideas and projects because people are never satisfied with their fate (and by the way, on this forum, you know who I’m looking at... 😏)

Obviously, if you're looking for Saudi Arabia or North Korea......

The list of oppressive countries is significantly longer than that of countries that are only marginally so. And if you count by population, it's even worse.

Everything else is just nitpicking by spoiled kids in their Tatra who focus more on the speck than the log.

I also wonder why our adopted Breton hasn’t left both Brittany and France.

A masochist? Too French at heart? (a whiny, neurotic complainer) The forum’s resident entertainer?

Usually, controversy and debate don’t make Attila disrespectful. Tonight, they do. I don’t see what gives you the right to deny me my own way of feeling things, or to be genuinely sensitive to individual and civil liberties. The French really struggle to understand that in Europe, freedom isn’t their exclusive domain. Don’t have the centralist, statist, or Bonapartist culture that fits? Oh well. 😏

What holds me back, as I’ve said before, is that I love my job, enjoy it, and have fun doing it—something that isn’t exactly transferable. I’m the opposite of you: work brings me joy, society brings me pain.

Michel

The rest is just nitpicking from spoiled brats in the Tatra who focus more on the speck than the beam. I also wonder why our adopted Breton hasn’t left both Brittany and France. A masochist? Too French at heart? (whiny, neurotic complainer) The forum’s court jester?

I'd really love to know what that job is! (DM me if needed...)

For me, what's holding me back right now is the gear (I’m housed here), the lack of cash to leave, and I’ll admit, health—because while France doesn’t have a monopoly on the best healthcare system, in the countries that attract me, it’s not great.

And what puts me off about going to certain countries is the climate (too hot in the Spain I love, too cold in the east).

My ideal would be winter in Madrid (moving around a bit because I don’t like staying in the same place for months), spring and summer in the east, but not necessarily just one country.

Then there’s Paris’s cultural life that still holds me back—I’m a museum and exhibit rat (well, mouse), and I don’t find the equivalent anywhere else (except London, but cost of living there? Not for me, unless I win the EuroMillions!)