Why do we always think that "ELSEWHERE" is better than our own country? (page 15 of 23)

Hello everyone and best wishes.

I read it all! From 1 to 279 in one go! I must say, where I am right now, I still have a bit of time... It’s hard to summarize—the point isn’t really there—but in the “travelers’ thoughts and reflections” section, I’ll allow myself to chime in...

Personally, I don’t think Elsewhere is better. From my own small experience, in the countries I’ve had the chance to visit—always too quickly, always too superficially—it’s easy to feel better there... Mostly on vacation, discovering places and people, with no schedule constraints, no pressure, often with a specially allocated budget. The grass is always greener... We could talk about raw economic data—it’s there and undeniable: GDP per capita, median salary, infant mortality, healthy retirement, and so on... But that reduces a country to mere materialism, stripping away the poetry...

Because recent events in France have highlighted a *French touch* () that the world envies us for. And whether some like it or not, a little spark often lights up in my interlocutor’s eye, no matter where they’re from, when you say the word *France* 🇫🇷...

Increased chauvinism? No, because not everything is rosy in our country, but it’s up to us, every day, to make it better...

Because if I have one certainty in this world, and specifically in France, it’s that everyone has the power to change their life if it doesn’t suit them!

Food for thought!

Live in the moment! It’d be easy to make it part of everyday life...

PS: Miranda, I replied to your last message—don’t take it as a direct response. Thanks

Hello,

Well, it really depends on who you're talking to and what you're sensitive to. I also sometimes have conversations with foreigners who seem to have a positive image of France, but their view is outdated, not well-informed, and often all it takes is explaining the reality to see their disbelief. For people who care about civil and individual freedoms, France has never been a great model, and it continues a dirigiste, centralist, and authoritarian tradition that goes back to Bonaparte and even earlier. But for the past few years—around 2007, I’d say—it’s become one of Europe’s worst students. Right now, in my opinion, it’s well below the European average on criteria like freedom of expression, movement, opinion, entrepreneurship, personal fulfillment, and building projects. Security is also an issue, despite all the sacrifices. It’s the only EU state, as far as I know—now that the UK is no longer part of it—that has repeatedly asked to derogate from the European Convention on Human Rights in recent decades. In that regard, it recently joined Turkey and Ukraine. If you’re not sensitive to those things and instead focus on comfort-based criteria—like guaranteed pension payments, state social benefits, or societal support for individuals—then yes, France is at the top. It all comes back to our point: a country suits us, or it doesn’t, depending on our aspirations. Personally, I feel more in tune with Germany, for example—more comfortable, freer.

Michel

Hello everyone and best wishes.

I read it all! From 1 to 279 in one go! Gotta say, where I am right now, I’ve still got some time... Hard to summarize—the point isn’t there—but in the “travelers’ thoughts and reflections” section, I’ll allow myself to chime in...

For me, I don’t think Elsewhere is better. From my own little experience, in the places I’ve been lucky enough to visit—always too quickly, always too superficially—it’s easy to feel better there... Mostly on vacation, discovering places and people, with no time constraints or pressure, often with a specially allocated budget. The grass is always greener... We could talk about raw economic data—it’s there and undeniable: GDP per capita, median salary, infant mortality, healthy retirement, and so on... But that reduces a country to materialism, stripping away the poetry...

Because recent events in France have highlighted a *French touch* () that the world envies. And whether some like it or not, a little light often sparkles in my interlocutor’s eye, no matter their country, when you say the word *France* 🇫🇷...

Increased chauvinism? No, because not everything is rosy in our country, but may we, every day, strive to make it better...

Because if I’m certain of one thing in this world—and specifically in France—it’s that everyone has the power to change their life if it doesn’t suit them!

To those who’ll listen!

Live in the moment! It’d be easy to make it your daily life...

PS: Miranda, I replied to the last message—don’t take it as a direct response. Thanks

freedom of speech and opinion

Yet it was in France that a team of critical humorists was decimated.

to undertake, to flourish, and to build projects.

Wouldn’t it rather be the "fault" of the French? Where there’s a will, there’s a way...

My friends from other European countries, who fall off their chairs when I explain the constraints in France regarding professional activities, employment, healthcare... and who tap their temples with their index fingers when I jokingly suggest they come here to build a career, don’t seem to believe that "where there’s a will, there’s a way."

Michel

freedom of speech and opinion

Yet it was in France that a team of critical humorists was decimated.

to undertake, to thrive, and to build projects.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say it’s the fault of the French? Where there’s a will, there’s a way...

I also sometimes have conversations with foreigners who initially have a positive image of France, but their view is outdated, not well-informed, and often all it takes is explaining the reality to see their disbelief.

Are you explaining the reality or your own perspective? Do you think all foreigners are ignorant and uninformed?

For people who care about civil and individual liberties, France has never been a great model, and it continues a dirigiste, centralist, and authoritarian tradition that goes back to Bonaparte and even earlier. But in recent years—I’d say around 2007—it has become one of Europe’s worst students.

France is a centralized and centralizing country. But it’s the French who decide that through their votes. France has laws and rules. We have rights, but also duties.

Right now, in my opinion, it’s well below the European average on criteria like freedom of speech, movement, opinion, entrepreneurship, personal fulfillment, and building projects. On security, too, despite all the sacrifices.

Tell that to our Turkish, Chechen, Korean, Chinese friends, and many others from around the world... And without going that far, to Spanish friends who are indebted for life over a home with a variable-rate mortgage that lost 40% of its value (I can introduce you to some).

As for security, it’s precisely *because* it’s called France that it’s a priority target for those who see our art de vivre and freedoms as an insult.

If you’re not sensitive to those issues and instead prioritize comfort—like guaranteed pension payments, state social benefits, or society taking care of individuals—then yes, France is at the top.

Isn’t the title of this discussion: *Is it better elsewhere?*

We come back to our point: a country suits us—or doesn’t—based on our aspirations.

We agree, even if everything isn’t perfect, this country suits me, and I’m staying without badmouthing it. On the contrary, I try to improve it every day within my means... A very French attitude: like the rooster, my feet are in the manure, but I keep singing!!

For my part, I feel more in tune with Germany, for example—more comfortable, freer.

Comparison isn’t reason. Talk to the millions of working poor, including seniors, about that...

Explain reality or your vision to them? Do you think all foreigners are ignorant and uninformed?

Facts, just real-life facts... Access to healthcare, public internet access, freedom of movement, to start a business, to change jobs, to move... Real life 🙂

France is a centralized and centralizing country. But it’s the French who decide this through their votes. France has laws and rules. We have rights but also duties.

Duties? Like anywhere else, I don’t see a major argument there.

Talk to our Turkish, Chechen, Korean, Chinese friends, and many other regions of the world....

I think it’s a bit easy and short-sighted to present things this way; take a closer look.

As for security, it’s precisely because it’s called France that it’s a priority target for those for whom the art of living and freedoms are an insult.

That reasoning would hold if other EU countries with similar lifestyles had followed the same path—but that’s not the case. Look at Germany, the Netherlands, and all the others.

We agree, even if everything isn’t perfect, this country suits me, and I’m staying without denigrating it. On the contrary, I try to improve it every day within my means... A good French attitude: like the rooster, I’ve got my feet in the manure, but I keep singing!!

You’re free to feel committed.

Comparison isn’t reason. Talk to the millions of working poor, including seniors....

You remind me of those who praised the railway and transport monopoly in France and waved the privatization scarecrow a few years ago. I’ve taken privatized trains in quite a few countries, and I’ve also seen how things go during crises or disruptions. Well, I guarantee you it went much better than it would have in France. 🙂 Always waving scarecrows to justify archaic systems—that’s French ideology.

Michel

Before leaving the discussion—which, after rereading some of your 44,000 messages, I didn’t expect anything different from—I’d have the audacity to give you a little advice: Don’t rush into your replies (10 minutes to read and respond!). Think it over! You’ll gain some wisdom from it...

Consider yourselves warned, take care!

Alright, so we're getting into personal attacks now... I'm quick and efficient—that's my trademark—and ten minutes feels like an eternity to me.

Hey, no hard feelings. Seriously, I don’t hold it against you; it’s always tough to take a reflective look when you’ve been raised with certain benchmarks that seem like no-brainers, especially after inevitably listening to, watching, and reading state media, which—no matter what they say—still carries an official narrative... Even more so in a country that pushes a strong public discourse, backed by a civil service and a single language. It’s normal, I get it. 🙂

Michel

Before leaving the discussion—which, after rereading some of your 44,000 messages, I expected nothing less—I’ll have the audacity to give you a little advice: Don’t rush into your replies (10 minutes to read and respond!). Think it through! You’ll gain some wisdom from it...

To the wise, cheers!

Hello Montagnard 74, At last, a reasonable answer to the original question: ... why is it better elsewhere?...

Indeed, too often posts ramble, go off-topic, and clutter the Forum. So, freedom of expression? YES, but some need to remember there are limits and not let loose with grandiloquent, dithyrambic, or even downright grotesque rants. But let’s be clear, the above isn’t a moral lesson—I wouldn’t dare—but a simple reminder of what our dear and benevolent host VForum asks of us:

"... Avoid off-topic or very short replies like "chit-chat."..."

Now, going off-topic myself (slap on the wrist!), I see Montagnard 74 has been to places I frequent with ever-renewed pleasure and will return to next March. Check out the two photos he shared: - Tomb of the Ming Emperor in Huế - - A beach in Vietnam... with a coconut tree! - In my "ePhoto" collection (7,600 shots...), I have the exact same view as the first one and, even more precious, the same image but as a painting done in 1922 by a family friend from Chambéry: Henry Mège. Also, if Montagnard 74 would like to correspond, I’d be delighted to swap travel memories. Thanks in advance for that. I sign off as "VIETALIÉ" because, obsessed with Vietnam (I was born there), I now live in the 03 Allier. See you soon, I hope, and please pass on my warm regards to all those you care about. Here’s my wish, as expressed between Saigon, Huế, and Hanoi: Happiness - Longevity - Prosperity

Hello everyone and best wishes.

I read it all! From 1 to 279 in one go! Must say, where I am, I’ve still got some time... Hard to summarize—the point isn’t there—but in the "travelers’ thoughts and reflections" section, I’ll add my two cents... Hello Montagnard, Personally, I don’t think Elsewhere is better. From my own experience, in the countries I’ve been lucky enough to visit—always too quickly, always too superficially—it’s easy to feel better there... On vacation most of the time, discovering places and people, with no schedule or pressure, often with a specially allocated budget, the grass is always greener... We could talk about raw economic data—it’s there and undeniable: GDP per capita, median salary, infant mortality, healthy retirement, and so on... But that reduces a country to mere materialism, stripping away the poetry...

Because recent events in France have highlighted a *je ne sais quoi* () that the world envies us. And whether some like it or not, a little spark often lights up in my interlocutor’s eye, no matter their country, when you mention the word France 🇫🇷...

Increased chauvinism? No, because not everything’s rosy in our country, but it’s up to us to make it better every day...

Because if I’m certain of one thing in this world, especially in France, it’s that everyone has the power to change their life if it doesn’t suit them!

Food for thought!

Live in the moment! It’d be easy to make it your daily life...

PS: Miranda, I replied to your last message—don’t take it as a direct response. Thanks

True, and too often posts ramble on,

to ramble... rambling is synonymous with vacation. But isn’t idleness, just like rambling—that is, wandering aimlessly—what truly defines the essence of travel itself?

So, freedom of expression? YES, but some need to remember there are limits and shouldn’t let loose with grandiose, over-the-top, or even downright ridiculous rants.

On the other hand, a little lyricism and whimsy don’t hurt in our world full of austerity, heh heh ;)

Oh wow! What ease in polemicizing by deliberately attributing to certain words—like "divaguer," for example—a completely different meaning than what the original poster intended! Indeed, I’m not talking about physical displacement here, but rather the wandering of the mind, which has nothing to do with dreams or poetry. It’s a deliberate mix of everything and nothing, revealing a "petty nitpicking spirit" at the level of a kindergarten playground. So, whether unconsciously (?) or on purpose, both approaches really annoy (and I’m toning down my vocabulary!!!) those who, in good faith, hope for something intelligent that stays within the original meaning and context of the conversation. There are plenty of other places to indulge in all-out polemical jousting.

So, please, let’s keep the conversation pleasant on this lovely forum and, just in case… set aside any pointless disputes by simply responding to these digressions with the following: OFF-TOPIC - IRRELEVANT

I’m done here. And to those who want to spew their venom and other nastiness at me—know that I couldn’t care less and won’t even acknowledge you. The other posts are enough to satisfy me. You’ve been warned… Vietalier

Indeed, too often posts ramble on,

Oh wow! What ease in polemicizing by deliberately attributing to certain words—like "divaguer," for example—a completely different meaning than what the original poster intended! Indeed, I’m not talking about physical displacement here, but rather the wandering of the mind, which has nothing to do with dreams or poetry. It’s a deliberate mix of everything and nothing, revealing a "petty nitpicking spirit" at the level of a kindergarten playground. So, whether unconsciously (?) or on purpose, both approaches really annoy (and I’m toning down my vocabulary!!!) those who, in good faith, hope for something intelligent that stays within the original meaning and context of the conversation. There are plenty of other places to indulge in all-out polemical jousting.

So, please, let’s keep the conversation pleasant on this lovely forum and, just in case… set aside any pointless disputes by simply responding to these digressions with the following: OFF-TOPIC - IRRELEVANT

I’m done here. And to those who want to spew their venom and other nastiness at me—know that I couldn’t care less and won’t even acknowledge you. The other posts are enough to satisfy me. You’ve been warned… Vietalier

Rambling... rambling is synonymous with wandering. And isn’t wandering—just like rambling, meaning aimlessly drifting somewhere—what truly defines travel itself?

So, freedom of expression? YES, but some should remember there are limits and not let loose with grandiose, dithyrambic, or even outright grotesque rants.

On the other hand, lyricism and whimsy don’t hurt in our world full of austerity, heh heh

I recommend listening to the show on France Inter "Grand Bien Vous Fasse"—the specialist Jean-Didier Urbain, who’s been mentioned many times on this forum, talks about travel in general. It’s really interesting to listen to!

Hello,

Without meaning to bother you, what drives you to make an average of nine posts a day for 14 years?

Hi there,

All my first long vacations as a young adult were marked by two recurring things: discovering places where I would have moved immediately for good, and, after two weeks abroad, an irresistible craving to dig into a good steak and fries in a familiar setting. Elsewhere, the grass is greener in some places and for a while.

For me, what makes the difference is my preference for a tropical climate and my concerns—tinged with worry—about the future of quality of life in our own country.

Loyalty. To a forum I’ve had a varied and passionate relationship with, but one that’s free and allows for so many freedoms and expressions.

Michel

Hello, Without meaning to bother you, what process drives you to make an average of nine posts a day for 14 years?

Well said! The management of this site is indeed extremely satisfying.

Hello,

All my first long vacations as a young adult were defined by two recurring elements: discovering places where I would have moved in immediately for good, and, after two weeks abroad, the irresistible urge to dig into a good steak-fries in a familiar setting. Elsewhere, the grass is greener in some places and for a while.

For me, what changes the game is my preference for a tropical climate and my concerns, tinged with worry, about the future of well-being in our own country.

For once, even though I’ve never been away for more than 3 weeks, I never miss France. After that, I could see myself living in the place I’m visiting. I think deep down no place really makes me dream—there are just places where I feel better than others, but that’s about it.

And I doubt I’d miss France.

We all know that the Mouse spends its time playing the star in front of monuments all over the world, but let’s not forget that its delicious variety of cheeses can only be enjoyed in its beloved France! 🙂

Not the whole world yet, unfortunately—just Europe 😐

Oh, I’ll admit it, what I’d miss the most is the cheese! But anyway, I couldn’t live in a country where the food is too bad or not varied at all

Switzerland has great cheese, but it’s way too expensive for me!

Italy also has amazing cheeses, and the food in general is just great 😛

Oh, I’ll admit it—I’d really miss the cheese! But anyway, I couldn’t live in a country where the food is either terrible or just not varied at all.

Hi there, From a culinary standpoint, you should definitely come visit Thailand. It’s a feast for the eyes and the taste buds. Cheese was rare for a while, but with the expansion of supermarkets and tourist demand, you can now find a great selection at reasonable prices. That said, there’s a downside—wine is heavily taxed as a luxury product.

Switzerland has great cheese, but it’s way too expensive for me!

Absolutely, and in my opinion, the selection is more limited too...

Back to the thread: I’ve been an expat for 13 years with no regrets, even though I’m still in love with my birth country—and especially Provence.