Why do we always think that "ELSEWHERE" is better than our own country? (page 17 of 23)

Good evening,

You take a map of Europe, mark the major international airports—meaning in France, you mark Paris twice, Lyon, Nice, Marseille, Bordeaux, and Toulouse, all connected to the big European air networks—and you’ll see what I’m saying. Ever taken the A4 highway east of Paris? Noticed where most of the cars are registered? What do you think drives people from Brittany to drive to Germany or Belgium? I think you don’t realize how things really are, that you don’t grasp the distances. By the way, do you even know the Nantes airport? I do. How many hours does it take by road from Normandy to reach Roissy? From Auvergne, how many alternatives do we have—north, south, east, west?

Michel

What’s truly insulting is this expectation to come—at great expense—to Paris for the slightest trip.

And do you think there’s an airport of international or even just European scale in Auvergne or Normandy?

People in Brittany have access to Nantes airport via toll-free highways, which is a rare exception in France, and the TGV serves the regional metropolis.

Really, it’s not that bad.

I’ll also remind you that you need a large enough traveler base for a decent-sized airport to exist and for ticket prices to stay competitive...

Nantes was the capital of the Breton state annexed by France; yes, I know, annexation is for other countries, but when France annexes, it's called an extension of the royal domain or reunification with France.

The denial of democracy is first and foremost in the fact that Paris decides for Bretons. As for the airport, personally, I don’t care—I’m not Breton and I don’t travel by plane.

Loire-Atlantique, which is in the Pays de la Loire region, was consulted. Not the Brittany region, as far as I know. Anyway, there’s no point in discussing this for pages—the project is dead. Now, they’ve decided to expand the current Nantes airport, much to the dismay of local residents. You see, there are always losers.

Alright, MickXIII, if you don’t care about this airport, maybe it’s time to move on, no?

Since when have the highways been toll-based in the Paris region? It’s still curious that we only talk about profitability for the provinces, as you say, while in Paris, the lack of profitability is shouldered by provincial taxpayers (in good Latin, the vanquished). Is the RATP profitable? Are the suburban trains profitable? Are the state-subsidized Parisian museums and theaters profitable? Will the Olympics be profitable?

What’s truly insulting is this invitation to come—at a cost—to Paris for even the smallest trip.

And do you think there’s an airport of international or even just European scale in Auvergne or Normandy?

Bretons have access to Nantes Airport via highways that are free—a rare exception in France—and the TGV serves the regional metropolis.

Really not so bad.

I’d also like to point out that you need a sufficiently large traveler base for a decent-sized airport to exist and for ticket prices to be competitive...

By the way, do you know this airport in Nantes?

Yes. It’s really good compared to Clermont’s, and I won’t even mention the lovely airport in Saint-Étienne...

From Normandy, how many hours by road to get to Roissy?

Cherbourg to Roissy: 380 kilometers... Not exactly around the corner, and not free.

In Auvergne, how many alternatives do we have—north, south, east, west?

Only one that’s relatively close: Lyon. 4 hours by train and shuttle if you’re lucky enough to live in Clermont.

And if you want options, it’s Paris...

You’re listing Paris twice, plus Lyon, Nice, Marseille, Bordeaux, and Toulouse

The most populated and/or most tourist-heavy areas...

Makes sense, right?

No, it doesn’t make sense. Brittany Point to Roissy, about 600 km. Taking a plane, train, and leaving the day before costs around 200 €. More like 250 € from the high-speed line, and you still risk losing everything due to one of the very frequent disruptions on that route. Often, it’s more expensive than the rest of the trip by plane from Paris. Between Auvergne and Brittany, there’s another slight difference—but this one might upset you. One is a nation, the other isn’t.

Michel

By the way, do you know that airport in Nantes?

Yes. It’s really good compared to Clermont’s, and I won’t even mention the superb airport in Saint-Étienne... 😄

From Normandy, how many hours by road to get to Roissy?

Cherbourg to Roissy: 380 kilometers... Not exactly next door, and not free.

From Auvergne, how many alternatives do we have—north, south, east, west?

Only one that’s relatively close: Lyon. 4 hours by train and shuttle if you’re lucky enough to live in Clermont.

And if you want options, it’s Paris... 😏

You mention Paris twice, Lyon, Nice, Marseille, Bordeaux, and Toulouse

The most populated and/or most tourist-heavy areas...

Logical, right? 😇

One is a nation, the other isn’t.

You won’t upset me, but you might upset some Auvergnats (not the Bourbonnais...) or some Bretons.

I have no reason to feel Auvergnat or Breton. Besides, I don’t feel any more Norman or Alsatian, even though that’s where my "roots" are...

I won’t upset more than 5 or 10% of Brittany’s residents by saying this, and certainly no Breton. Upsetting Auvergnats doesn’t bother me much, actually 🙂. Feel however you like, but if you feel European like I do, you’re probably going through a tough time right now.

Michel

One is a nation, the other isn’t.

You won’t upset me, but you might upset some Auvergnats (not the Bourbonnais...) or some Bretons.

I have no reason to feel Auvergnat or Breton. I don’t feel particularly Norman or Alsatian either, even though my "roots" are there...

Nantes was the capital of the Breton state annexed by France; yes, I know, annexation is for other countries, when it's France that annexes, they call it an extension of the royal domain or reunification with France

Yes, in the 16th century! Like Metz, where I was born and which was part of the Holy Roman Empire. So what do I do? Take to the streets waving little black, red, and yellow striped flags and demand a return to the Germanic fold? 😏 Not sure that’d go over well with the people of Moselle who lived through the war. Just to clarify, I know Nantes well—I lived there until recently.

Alright, ciao! [;]

Dear Micko13, It’s not about that at all, and I think you’ve perfectly understood the meaning of my last post, yet you’re twisting its sense and scope, looking for an argument. If that’s the case, know that you’re wasting your time—my adrenaline levels remain very low.

In my opinion, and regarding this forum, what’s off-topic is the political-polemical drift that too many forum members dive into, which derails the original conversation.

Now, I have no issue with interjecting here and there, and if verbose, epistolary arguments amuse some, well, good for them!

I wish you a good evening and assure you I hold no bitterness toward you.

That’s all! Vietalier

Indeed, the latest posts have spiraled into political and controversial tangents that have nothing to do with the original question—Notre Dame des Landes, etc.

Poor little privileged French folks 😏... Meanwhile, the average Bangladeshi or Guatemalan just has enough to eat and ride overcrowded buses 😄

And does that justify having second-class and first-class French citizens?

Michel

Indeed, the latest posts have flared up over political and controversial excesses that have nothing to do with the original question—Notre Dame des Landes, etc.

Poor little privileged French people 😏... Meanwhile, the average Bengali or Guatemalan just has enough to eat and ride overcrowded buses 😄

Taking a flight, train, and leaving the day before costs around 200 €.

Yeah, it’s expensive, but well... on an Indian or Ethiopian train, in a compartment meant for, say, 100 people, there are often 200 or even 300 people crammed in!

And does that justify having second-class and first-class French citizens?

The idea of first-class and second-class French citizens is complete nonsense—a gaping stupidity invented by journalists and the mass media. Sure, there are run-down council estates in France, but let’s not exaggerate—we don’t live in Bangladesh, where workers toil eleven hours a day for a few rupees to make Nike clothes. And as for the so-called "sensitive" areas, the government has still launched a major rehabilitation program. Whether I’m a first-class French citizen or the nth-class, I couldn’t care less—I’m completely indifferent. What interests me is traveling and wild lands 😏. The social stratification we’re so good at in France (unlike in Quebec, where I lived) doesn’t bother me at all...

Dear Forum Member, Please be assured that I’m not here to play the grumpy old man—it’s never been in my DNA, and at 82 years old (I was born in December 1935), I’m certainly not about to start annoying folks who just want to connect with each other. But do read my latest reply to Mick13, and you’ll see what I mean. Otherwise, I took a peek at your profile and found some really interesting things: - the various destinations you’ve wandered to, - your love for baroque music... Have a great evening, and I’ll look forward to crossing paths with you around Voyage Forum. Vietalier.

Dear Mr. Vietalier,

I imagined you a bit judgmental, but you're actually really sweet.

Otherwise, I took a look at your "profile" and saw quite a few interesting things: - the various destinations of your travels, - your love for baroque music...

If you love baroque music, do click on the "youtube" link in my signature. Maybe God does exist after all... 😏

Looking forward to crossing paths again. On VF, not in Moulins—I stopped there once and... that was more than enough. [;]

I don’t understand much of what you’re saying. You’ll have to excuse me for not responding.

Michel

And does that justify having second-class and first-class French people?

the idea of first- or second-class French people is complete nonsense—a bottomless stupidity invented by journalists and the mass media. Sure, there are run-down housing projects in France, but let’s not exaggerate—we don’t live in Bangladesh, where workers slave away eleven hours a day for a few rupees to make Nike clothes. And as for the so-called "sensitive" neighborhoods, the government has still launched a major rehabilitation program. Whether I’m a first-class French person or the nth-class, I couldn’t care less—I’m totally indifferent. What interests me is traveling and wild lands 😏. I couldn’t give a damn about social stratification, which France does so well (unlike Quebec, where I lived)—it doesn’t matter to me at all...

With the caveat that Bretons face the same taxes as Parisians, right? Same charges, fewer rights. I think that’s probably a brilliant take on equality. 🙂

Michel

Taking a plane, train, and leaving the day before costs around 200 euros.

yeah, it’s expensive, but well... in an Indian or Ethiopian train, in a compartment meant for, say, 100 people, there are often 200 or 300 people crammed in

Population... Brittany, including Loire-Atlantique, 4.6 million. Ireland, 4.7 million. Estonia, 1.3 million. Latvia, 1.96 million. Lithuania, 2.8 million. Slovenia, 2 million. Denmark, 5.7 million.

You talk about population basins? Who’s cut off from access to Europe?

Michel

The most populated and/or most tourist-heavy population basins... Makes sense, right?😇

Thanks for the "sweetie"—I like it vanilla... or with mild curry, but most of all, very tender and full of affection. For Moulins, you’re right; in fact, that’s why I spend about ten months a year in Vietnam (I was born there and speak the language like a true Vietnamese). Since I’m a widower, if my sons didn’t keep me tied to France (I come back every year for two or three months), I’d go live out the rest of my days in the sun, under the coconut trees, among the children and the beautiful women with almond-shaped eyes! Thanks for the YouTube tip and baroque music—I’ll listen to it tonight, and if you don’t mind, I’ll let you know what I think afterward? Have a great weekend, and... see you soon, maybe. Vietalier.

PS: To my great joy, Voyage Forum has allowed me to make friends here and there with other Forumers (through private messages). I meet them whenever I’m in France and exchange little snippets of correspondence that warm my heart when it gets a bit chilly.

— Don’t look back on your path, or you might fall into the abyss you leave behind... (Confucius... very roughly = the future is ahead!)

Just so you know, Breton teachers and others assigned to eastern France all arrive with long faces. The east is ugly, it's cold, and people speak strangely there. Sure, we might be close to borders, German airports, at the heart of Europe, and all that, but according to them, after comparing, Brittany isn’t far from resembling paradise, and all they want is to go back.