Why do we always think that "ELSEWHERE" is better than our own country? (page 2 of 23)

hello and safe travels while we wait for your experience feedback...

pat and nad from l'aveyron

There are quite a few European countries where the gender pay gap is smaller than in France. There are quite a few European countries where parental leave can be taken freely by either the father or the mother, leaving the couple to decide who continues their career. There are quite a few European countries where being a woman doesn’t lead to any discrimination, negative or positive. There are quite a few European countries where the "head of the household" isn’t automatically a man. In quite a few European countries, fundamental rights (like the right to vote or the right to work without a husband’s consent) were granted to women decades, if not centuries, before France... France, like on many other issues, is pretty backward when it comes to real gender equality.

Another point: you know absolutely nothing about the happiness or unhappiness of women in other countries who, by our standards, have outdated customs and legislation. I’m not convinced that a female executive living in the 92 area, working her fingers to the bone to afford her Audi A6 and her apartment with a view, is necessarily happier than the Mongolian nomad who lives with her husband, children, and herd in a yurt... Yet, in that case, the roles of men and women are very clearly defined, and to us Westerners, they seem completely outdated.

I won’t argue about it... I know one thing for sure—me... I feel free and happy in France, and it’s through my own feelings and my own story that I feel privileged. In France... (or European countries!!! I should’ve added that too...) After all, if you’re a woman (and I don’t think that’s your case!), happiness belongs to each of us... based on our religion, our experiences, and our history. But in my eyes, I know many women are oppressed. Thank you for understanding that everyone’s freedom depends on so many factors. Mine lead me to think and say that, as a woman, I’m happy to live in France. I won’t stay here forever, but I have the right to feel that way. Have a great day

thank you for understanding that everyone's freedom depends on many criteria.. mine lead me to think and say that as a woman, I'm happy to live in France

That’s exactly why, Nadine, I raised an eyebrow at your statement. There’s no rule that says "women are happier here or there"—the same goes for men. I’m glad you feel good in France, and no one should question or comment on that. What bothered me was the impression that you were making it a general rule 🙂

No, I was comparing myself and knowing that some women whom I find pitiful consider themselves happy... I love Mankind with a capital M too much to respect, love, and go meet them during our travels... And in our choice of countries in 3 years, we’ll pay attention to lots of criteria (freedom, landscape beauty, people’s hospitality, sunshine ;) etc.) Have a great week

There’s no rule stating that "women are happier here or there"—the same goes for men.

Gross National Happiness in Bhutan?

Or, more prosaically, a map of non-economic migration flows...

Why leave a country if you’re happy there?

Gross National Happiness in Bhutan?

Forgive me for not taking this too seriously... especially coming from Bhutan, where respect for fundamental rights is, shall we say, unique.

Or more prosaically, a map of non-economic migration flows... Why leave a country if you're happy there?

Sure, but that doesn’t apply to the whole planet.... Especially since those who emigrate don’t represent the entire population. Some people were very happy in the USSR for the exact same reasons that drove so many others to flee.

Some people were very happy in the USSR for the exact same reasons that drove so many others to flee.

Your "Some" still sounds like "few." While your "So many others" tastes like "a lot"...

(Okay, the majority isn’t always right, but still...)

So I’ll keep population flight as an indicator of a region’s distress.

Attila, of course—I used a dramatic example to make my point. But you can be happy in France for the same reasons you might be unhappy there. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about 😉

When it comes to statistics, I’m the first to use them, so I can only agree that if there’s a massive exodus from one region to others, there’s clearly a problem.

Leaving! I’ll never come back, I’ll never come back because you never really do, The place you return to is always different. The station you return to is a different station. It’s no longer the same people, nor the same light, nor the same philosophy.

Leaving! My God, leaving! Yes, I’m afraid to leave!

Fernando Pessoa - Excerpt: "out there, I don’t know where..."

Hello, I wish you an excellent trip around the world. You're right, and I think this introspection will illuminate your inner path—and who knows, it might even give you the key to how and where to live your future! Best regards.

Hi, Moving abroad for sunshine! That’s one "ELSEWHERE" that makes sense....!!! Good luck to you. Still, I wanted to point out that in many other countries, women experience the same things we do in France—but there’s still a lot to improve regarding women’s conditions, even in France. Best regards.

Hello, thank you for your encouragement.. You're right, but I'm speaking for myself here.. I've always had the position I wanted.. Maybe I had to fight a bit harder than men in the environment I was in (agricultural union circles), but I made it. I believe that in France, everything is provided (and in other countries too, of course) for a woman to be free to do, think, and act.. (look at well-known women in agriculture, like Christiane Lambert, whom I admire), but some women have to want it! Have a good day

Yes, Americas is right, but only partly. Indeed, wherever we go, we always carry our own Spanish inn with us, and inevitably, we find ourselves wanting to tweak this or that to match our own standards—even when it makes sense! As a building and civil engineering technician, I often step in with Vietnamese masonry companies to point out, with calculations to back it up, that the way they work leads to massive waste of materials and rebar, which seriously eats into their budgets and profits. Even though it’s none of my business, the urge to intervene still itches at the tip of my tongue. I do it tactfully, selflessly, and for the good of people who didn’t have the chance to go to school for long... That said, I’d never ask for any thanks—my joy lies in sharing with others, without seeing myself as St. Martin, who gave half his coat to the poor man who was cold. Best to everyone contributing to V-Forum. — Vietalier

Hey Pierre-Yv,

Even though I like your take, I still want to point out that there isn’t just one "elsewhere"—there are countless. As Le Chat put it, "elsewhere" is everywhere except here. When you live in France, for example, you just have to go to another European country to be somewhere else, without necessarily rushing off to the poorest countries on the planet. And why couldn’t things be better elsewhere? In some cases, the job market might be kinder, the healthcare system more efficient, the bureaucracy less overwhelming—sometimes all of that can even come together. And then, that "elsewhere" you visited for a trip can feel really appealing...

Totally agree with you...!!!! France isn’t "wonderland."

Hi there,

I don’t feel unhappy in France because I accept its little annoyances while being grateful for the quality of life it gives me (healthcare, education, comfort, etc.). Happiness only depends on how we perceive things, our tolerance toward our fellow citizens, and how we adapt to daily frustrations...

I have nothing against expatriation—I’ve lived it before and will likely do it again—but I don’t see it as running away from the country in search of happiness. Instead, it’s an enriching experience that allows me to come back with a more open mind. I don’t think anywhere else is better than my country, nor the opposite—it’s just different.

Exactly, Jupiteria-Alice. Best wishes from Vietalier and have a great Sunday.

It's true, we think the grass is greener elsewhere, but I actually believe it's because we don't know our own country well enough. I thought I knew everything about France, and I dreamed of other places. I ended up with the mirage of the Vahine, white sandy beaches, coconut trees... You're talking about those idealized postcard images? There's another truth behind them, but it's not in just a few days—or even several months or a year—that you can discover it.

I've been living in Tahiti for over thirty years. Paradise? Yes, for tourists and the wealthy (and at one time, for the military), but the reality goes far beyond that.

Now, I look at France through the internet, and I realize I was completely wrong. I miss my France, and I dream about it.

My blog is very revealing—I express myself as best I can. I'd love to see it again, but will I ever be able to?

Interesting discussion. I’ll chime in (or add my two cents, as they say) because for once, we’re not just showing off or getting personal.

After 7 months of traveling, I still can’t answer the recurring question: *Which country did you like best?* If I arrive with positive preconceptions, I’m disappointed; if I arrive with negative ones, I’m pleasantly surprised. So I’ve learned to be wary of statements like “the people are so nice” or the opposite. There are plenty of things I don’t like about France, but just as many in every country I’ve visited. Is there really a “better elsewhere”? Yes… and no. Yes, if expatriation meets a material need (sunshine, standard of living, recognition), but no if that desire is driven by the idealized vision of a perfect country. How many expats today would admit they were wrong? What I mean is that this inability to face reality (as with other issues in our own country) will probably lead other dreamers to make the same mistakes… In short, I hate generalizations because I know they’re biased by the desire to see only what pleases us, what doesn’t hurt, and/or what avoids self-questioning.

On a side note—but not unrelated—I’d like to clarify a few things. Almost every discussion on this forum makes me cringe because the reality of behaviors on the ground (if I may put it that way) is fundamentally different. If it’s impossible in France to discuss a sensitive topic without it turning into a personal attack, the same goes here. I read all these “super REAL travelers” criticizing those who don’t share their opinions or travel differently, who boast about being more open-minded, more objective, closer to locals (yeah, right! That’s a whole debate in itself), yet they never fail to slip in an “I” here and there and ultimately repeat the same flaws elsewhere. So I hold back from replying like Attila (who I hope will forgive the reference, because I’ve often stumbled upon those remarks by chance, and they were spot-on. Unfortunately, not all truths are easy to hear).

Since we’re here to exchange opinions, here’s mine: If the underlying question is *Does a wonderful world exist?* The answer is no. The need for an “elsewhere” only becomes “better” if it truly matches a personal desire to live differently—accepting both the advantages and disadvantages that come with it. It’s a choice that shouldn’t be based on an ideal. Just because living a certain way appeals to Paul doesn’t mean it will appeal to Jacques…

Be careful not to base your choices on others’ experiences to fill the disappointments caused by the downsides of your own country. Rest assured, you’ll encounter new ones. Whether they’re worse or better, you’ll be the only judge.

It’s always unhealthy when people try to convince others that their life choices are the best or the most fantastic—because it often hides something else. Keep that in mind.

As a self-proclaimed moralist, I bid you farewell (laughs). Joking aside, given the various discussions I’ve had with future expats, it seemed important to share a few reflections to consider before embarking on the “great adventure,” which can turn into a nightmare if it’s only about “living life to the fullest before dying.” Because it’s also about being able to live as long as possible. And life expectancy is often tied to quality of life. Quality of life?! Oh, isn’t that exactly what we’re all looking for? Didn’t some of us already realize that? Personally, I tend to agree with them.

Good luck reading this wall of text—I’m off to continue my journey…

PS: To Jupiteria: May I suggest a little exercise to answer your questions? Try backpacking in France with the same mindset you had while traveling… You might discover another side of France. Who knows, your “elsewhere” might be closer than you think ;) It’s doable—hostels, mobile homes, chalets, small studios, available monthly or weekly.

😮 Sorry about the typos, there was a little glitch. My words were so fond of each other they just stuck together 😇