No, I Won’t Be Going Back to China (page 2 of 13)

I’ve only been to China twice, and it’s clear I found myself "pushed" in every sense of the word. But that’s what I love about traveling: stepping out of my comfort zone, my habits, and my European reflexes to face ways of doing things that aren’t my usual, that don’t necessarily suit me, that might even shock or displease me—so long as I take the time to simply tell myself that’s exactly what’s interesting: the difference.

Another post mentions Japan, and I really think you’d be much happier traveling there. Everything is generally very well organized, polite, and well-managed, while still feeling "exotic" for a Westerner. In short, comfort... both material and "psychological."

China is harder to grasp, I think, precisely because we often have to make an effort to understand and accept certain behaviors that might seem "unpleasant." But what a wealth of experience to be confronted with it and take something positive away.

Anyway, don’t let a negative experience get you down. You now have a little experience with China—if you go back 😉, you’ll be better prepared and less thrown off by certain things, and you’ll be able to appreciate everything else even more.

Happy future travels in China or elsewhere!

Hi there,

I’m heading to China soon. The only place I know there is Hong Kong, which I visited as part of a Southeast Asian trip. Honestly, when I landed back at Roissy, I felt like I was arriving in a developing country—especially since I’d flown in from Singapore.

That’s just my take, though. No offense to anyone.

Hi Ericdu38, It’s been about fifteen years now that I’ve been going to China regularly—my wife is of Chinese origin. Your impression might come from the fact that, given your trip in China, you opted for a tourist circuit, which I totally get. As a result, you shared your journey with many Chinese tourists who didn’t necessarily have three weeks to visit their own country. For my part, I returned from China in December and I’m leaving again this Saturday for six weeks. I’ll be living with locals (my in-laws). I can assure you that Chinese people in everyday life are really different from the quick stereotype you described. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours.

Whether it’s a packaged tour, an overly packed itinerary, or anything else, that’s not what caused this miss. Some countries just click for you, and others don’t—it’s that simple. You got back not long ago, you’re disappointed and a bit worked up, which explains the slightly harsh tone of this message. China just isn’t your thing. No big deal, time to move on.

Of course, it’s not a big deal... there are much worse things in life.

Sure, we showed up there during a peak season, but still, we’ve visited most other Asian countries during similar periods and never experienced such intense crowds. The only things that come to mind are packed trains in India (but there, everyone makes their own space and no one steps on you) or short waits for major sites (but without being shoved around).

Next year, it might be Cuba or a trip to see the northern lights—something different for a change! 🙂

Yes Dominique, thanks. And I definitely respect the opinions of those who love China.

I had a long chat with the advisor from the agency that suggested this trip. She even studied in China and is in love with the country... probably with a bit more perspective than we have.

You’re really lucky not to have been trampled in India! But then again, you travel with organized tours. I travel solo, and in India, a three-hour train delay isn’t anything new. The crowd arrives, and you risk getting trampled if you’re not careful. You have to push and shove past the Indians just to reach the ticket counter. In Pondicherry, I stayed in the "Black District of Delirium"—four lanes of traffic. It stops around 1 a.m., then the cleaning ladies take over, and by 5 a.m., the muezzin’s call to prayer starts. So if you think you know India, you don’t know it *at all*. Indians might be worse than the Chinese, but I travel solo and don’t run away. I love India and China—they’re just different cultures. If you don’t like them, leave them to the rest of us. Kerala is beautiful too, but what do *you* know about it?

You’re really lucky you weren’t trampled in India. But then again, you travel with a tour group. I travel solo, and in India, a three-hour train delay isn’t unusual. The crowd rushes in, and you risk getting trampled if you’re not careful. You have to push and shove past the Indians just to reach the ticket counter. In Pondicherry, I stayed in the "black neighborhood of delirium"—right on a four-lane road. Things quiet down around 1 AM, but then the cleaning ladies show up, and at 5 AM, the muezzin’s call to prayer starts. So if you think you know India, you don’t know it at all. Indians might even be worse than the Chinese, but I travel alone and don’t run away. I love India and China—they’re just different cultures. If you don’t like them, leave them for others. Kerala is beautiful too, but what do you really know about it?

I don’t claim to know India—or any country, for that matter.

Our first discovery was Kerala, through a French agency based there with a private driver. Two great weeks. After that, I went back alone for two months: New Delhi, Ladakh, and then slowly made my way back down to Kerala and the southern part of Tamil Nadu. So two months facing "daily life" there too. But for bookings, I chose to go through local travel agencies. And last year, two weeks in Rajasthan with a driver—saw the Taj Mahal and a bunch of other sights. I haven’t been to Pondicherry. So yeah, I haven’t spent much time there, but I can still talk about it a bit more than someone who’s never set foot in the country. It let me see the big differences between these regions and figure out what attracts me—or doesn’t.

Just like in China, there’s probably a huge variety of regions, customs, and traditions.

For our other trips in Asia, we’ve mostly done them on our own. So we don’t *always* travel with organized tours.

Still, based on what I’ve seen and experienced, I’m sure I want to go back to India—but not to China.

Hi everyone, I loved reading all your comments—I relate to so many of them. I’ve been living in China for over two years now, and everything said about their behavior? I’ve noticed the exact same things. After a while, though, you just have to learn to take it lightly. When a Chinese kid points at me and says "laowai" (foreigner in Chinese), I point right back and say "zhongguoren" (Chinese in Chinese), and afterward, they’re all smiles. As for lines, if someone cuts in front of me, I tap their shoulder and tell them to get in line—they’ll usually be really nice about it. Yeah, they talk loudly—sometimes even shout—and it’s the same at work. Imagine being in an office with 20 Chinese people all talking loudly. Some evenings, I finish my day with a headache. One adjective that describes them is individualistic, but on the flip side, they’re ready to do anything to help if you’re lost. I’ve visited quite a few places in China, and the more remote the area, the friendlier and more helpful people are. If you want to see some of the lesser-known spots in China and the things that shocked me, I’ve got it all on my blog: www.duovagamundo.com But I love this country, and I don’t want to leave at all. Perfect timing, since I’ve got to stay another year anyway! :)

Hi everyone.

I’ve been to China twice. The first time was nearly 20 years ago. I was traveling solo in the Uyghur region, between Pakistan and Kyrgyzstan. The second time was almost 10 years ago, in the Shanghai area. The 2009 eclipse was the purpose of the trip, and we were traveling with a group.

I found the Chinese people neither friendly nor unfriendly—just indifferent. The crowds, the noise, the pollution—neither of these two experiences made me want to go back.

Still, I tried to return in 2014 while traveling between Thailand and Mongolia. I couldn’t get a visa because they said I didn’t have a steady income... So now I have no desire to go back at all. There are so many other beautiful places in the world to explore. Or maybe in the mountains, around the Tibetan Plateau...

That’s all!

It’s clear that such an honest post will draw some backlash...

But I get you. It’s always so paradoxical because they can be extremely annoying, disrespectful, and unbearable one moment, yet just as endearing and kind the next. The example mentioned by another forum member—the train-ticket-seller-turned-prison-guard who finally loosens up when you smile—perfectly illustrates this constant ambivalence. That cold sweat you get around strangers... which quickly turns into obvious warmth.

You also have amazing moments with some taxi drivers or barbers, for example, who are often curious and eager to chat. That’s the charming side of China! And Shanghai—what an incredible city! Such a hub of sophistication and openness! And the cities in the North—so much history and so many great encounters!

But I’m sorry, we also have to admit that just because it’s China doesn’t mean everything is perfect. It’s obvious that the service is often terrible and at best half-hearted. And honestly, when someone cuts in front of you in line or yells in your ear, no matter how much they smile afterward like they’re some saint, it’s just pure disrespect. They *know* they’re not supposed to cut in line, but they don’t care, and when you call them out, 90% of the time they’ll play innocent or act offended—only to cut in front of you again two minutes later. Unfortunately, that reveals a certain worldview that doesn’t lean toward more respect or altruism... And being blindly pro-China and excusing everything with “that’s just how it is here, it’s so different” doesn’t help anything move forward. Because NO, even in China, it’s not normal to shove people out of the way to board a plane. That kind of behavior has nothing to do with some ancient culture. Respect for others is just a basic human behavior everyone should learn when they realize they’re not the only person in the world. Clearly, there are a lot of (fake) nearsighted people in China.

As for the food, I think you’re being a bit unfair—I find it really good in the North, around Shanghai, and in the West. But without the South, yeah, it’s honestly a disaster. Oil on oil. Not to mention their love for bones, tendons, and offal, which makes you wonder where the actual meat went. That said, I don’t mind the chili—quite the opposite.

When it comes to comparing with other Asian countries, sure, every country has its quirks that shape people’s behavior. But it’s undeniable that Chinese people shock, destroy, lack respect, and annoy EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE. In the West, where they still feel a bit lost and overwhelmed, their lack of confidence and shyness means they behave a little better (though not as much as 8–10 years ago). But talk to people in Southeast Asia or Japan, or even in Africa or Mexico, and you’ll see that wherever they feel like they’ve conquered the place, their behavior is even more outrageous than at home. It’s yet another proof that their sense of respect and community is pretty relative and flexible, and they’ll do whatever suits them as long as no one calls them out. It always makes me laugh when they get offended if you ask them to queue *in their own country*, yet you constantly see Chinese people ignoring memorials in France while laughing, or yelling and shoving Balinese or Japanese people praying in temples, finding it totally normal.

Yes, the Japanese are more respectful and just as eager to help a lost foreigner. Yes, Thais are genuinely nicer and better-mannered. Yes, there’s a whiff of selfishness, fake innocence, and “nouveau riche” attitude in China. Everywhere else in Asia—and pretty much everywhere I’ve been in the world—I’ve never seen people so self-centered and so unconcerned about others. Numbers aren’t an excuse: South Korea, Hong Kong, the Netherlands, and Japan have the same density, yet they at least know how to say hello and wait their turn... Let’s hope that one day, China’s growth will also include humanity and respect for others (in the broadest sense). It’d do the country good, which keeps building a more and more disastrous reputation. And let’s not forget that for now, the ones suffering the most from this incivility and constant disdain are the Chinese themselves.

Yeah, I get everything you're saying!! If my post comes off as shocking, that’s fine—we’re here to share.

I’d already noticed that kind of loud behavior in India back in 2014. I was alone in a hotel room when a group of 6 or 10 people barged in around 9:30/10:00 PM, left their doors wide open, and just created this endless racket like they were the only ones there. Two of us went out to say something, but nothing helped calm them down.

Anyway, I don’t want to generalize, and we still had some good times. That said, it’s the first time we’ve been so eager to come back home.

Hi there, Your thoughts are the spitting image of conversations I have with my Chinese sister-in-law, who now lives in France. She has a rather unflattering view of her compatriots, often highlighting the same flaws you mentioned.

Her explanation is that in China today, money is the only value that matters: if you have it, you walk all over others. If you don’t, you get walked all over. This is even more pronounced among the urban middle class, a group that didn’t exist at this level not so long ago. And these are the very people you’ll find traveling the globe on cheap organized tours, increasingly criticized by locals for their behavior...

Hello Your reflections are the exact mirror of conversations I have with my sister-in-law, a Chinese woman now living in France. She has a rather unflattering view of her compatriots, often highlighting the flaws you mentioned.

The explanation she gives is that in China today, money is the scale of values: If you have it, you walk all over others. If you don’t, you get walked on. This is even more pronounced in the urban middle class, which didn’t exist at this level not so long ago. And these are the people you find all over the world on cheap package tours, increasingly criticized by locals for their behavior...

Hello,

Montagnard74’s post also matches my experience in China. I’d add to your sister-in-law’s explanation that China isn’t a rule-of-law state: the lack of judicial independence allows this scale of values to persist.

To add to your sister-in-law’s explanation, China isn’t a rule-of-law state: the lack of judicial independence is what allows this kind of value system.

Another big topic I didn’t want to get into here, but you’re right to bring it up.

Couldn’t agree more, Zola! What a joy, what an adventure! Just like you, I loved that difference, that originality, and I find it so sad how so many Asian countries have been stripped of their flavors to cater to Western tastes, overrun by hordes of Australians or others (not that I have anything against Australians... there are worse crowds). Anyway... visit... critique... but don’t judge (can you really judge a millennia-old civilization after just 2 or 3 weeks of travel?) and long live the beauty of such different journeys!

Try Bali—it’s not bad! Even for someone like me who can’t stand crowds or noise (I’m 70), sure, there’s a lot of traffic on the streets, but once you’re tucked away in your bungalow surrounded by greenery, the Balinese are such charming, respectful people. I’m speaking from experience—I spent a month in Kuta staying in bungalows nestled in lush gardens because I avoid big hotels packed with tourists.

We loved Bali! 😊

As for me, before leaving for China, I was advised to visit other Asian countries and avoid China. Yet my trip in April 2017 following a Beijing-Hong Kong itinerary and the one last April between Shanghai and Guiyang were absolutely enchanting.

But I understand your impressions, and indeed, some of their behaviors can be shocking. However, it’s worth balancing that with the positives: no one tries to scam you, you always feel safe (my girlfriend often walked alone at night), they have a fabulous railway transport system, they’re respectful (they don’t stare, and how many times did they offer my partner a seat?), and so much more. I suppose these qualities are even more pronounced in Japan, but compared to other countries I’ve visited, China is in a league of its own.

Two personal stories that highlight their kindness: the time we were stranded in a small town and the bus driver cut off another bus to let us board and take us to our destination. Then there was the time I had a persistent cough (I have bronchitis/asthma issues), and some students came to our rescue in a pharmacy to help us pick the right medicine and dosage.

Should I also mention the richness of their architecture and the diversity of their landscapes? That tips the scales even more on the positive side!

Yet I don’t travel in luxury. We’re always backpacking, staying in hostels, and avoiding taxis. In big cities, I love taking buses and the metro. In Beijing and Shanghai, I make sure to ride during rush hour—every time, I love the atmosphere. Also, biking in big cities or crossing the street on a red light (I know, it’s a bad habit) feels safer than back home in Montreal, where cars drive much faster.

At the office, when I say I’m going back to China, I hear "Again?!" Yes! Because every time I go, I discover something new.

We’ve never had communication issues, and I don’t speak Mandarin. Still, we visit many villages and always manage to make ourselves understood—our topics aren’t philosophy, just directions to find a bus, food, and a place to sleep 🙂

Next year, I’m heading back for 5 weeks, mainly to visit Yunnan. I can’t wait.

Did you, like us, experience the same things in China?

Couldn’t agree more. Some people here have said China is a fabulous country. That’s true, of course, but what’s the point? We’re talking about the Chinese—they’re just unbearable. Sure, you might appreciate that in hotels, they leave the doors open so they can talk... well, yell from one room to another. But you might not like it either. The Chinese government even published a little guide on good manners to use abroad (or rather, bad manners to avoid). Maybe in a few decades, they’ll stop spitting in the street ^^