Why do we always think that "ELSEWHERE" is better than our own country? (page 8 of 23)

Hi Green Melting Pot, Uh... almost off the mark!!! In this V-Forum section, someone already called out the "me, myself, and I" posts with their peremptory, no-appeal opinions and dripping, permanent egocentrism. You’re responding to what I never said or thought! Indeed, in my spots, there’s no Cabrel or fireside corner—but allow some to appreciate the one’s writing and the other’s comfort... Back to the guitar, my preferences lean toward Narciso Yepes and Andrés Segovia in the repertoires of Rodrigo or Albéniz, and sometimes toward Portuguese guitar accompanying Amália Rodrigues in her stunning fados, or when it’s Brazil singing through Gilberto Gil or the Andes through the voice of Atahualpa Yupanqui (Duerme negrito or El Cóndor Pasa). As for the fireside corner, if you don’t like it, don’t forbid those who enjoy reading a good book in winter, warmed by a crackling vine shoot fire or the sound of a log slowly burning in the hearth. Just noting that I don’t impose my tastes on everyone. When it comes to ladies and young women, while their company is pleasant, so is that of good, true friends. Best regards, forum member. Vietalier.

... this monument helped me write a few pages of a book (256 pages total) with scenes set in the Caribbean, Argentine Patagonia, Chile, Tierra del Fuego, all about travel. If you'd like, I can send you a copy by mail—dedicated if you prefer. In that case, it’ll cost you 20 €, shipping and packaging included. Just send me your details via private message on V-Forum so the postman knows where to deliver the package.

Nice try, but... not sold! Still, you did make me laugh. Caught up in other travel invites (which are more than just a possibility)... I’ll have to pass on your signed copy. But could I suggest polishing your pitch before posting about your book in the dedicated section: Books, films, and documentaries? It’d fit better there than in this smoke-filled discussion.

Thanks so much.....

Thanks to all of you, I’ve heard mixed things... I’m sure there are plenty of associations (animal welfare, walks, arts, etc.) where I can meet open-minded people. I’ll go take a look (and pick up after myself) in Cagnes at the start of spring... Best regards😉

If you're going to Cagnes, check out Mouans-Sartoux (which just finished its great book festival) because the coastal strip might leave you disappointed anyway.

😎Thanks for the tip! I stopped by Saint-Maxime at the end of summer (a friend lives in Le Muy, which must have been a charming village but is now overrun by immigration that’s not exactly cool...). Saint-Maxime was gorgeous but way too crowded, I thought... indeed. I’ll check out the place you mentioned.... thanks for the tip!

It's a fact, whether you like it or not, that most tourists go to Paris and base their judgment of France on that.

Whether you like it or not, it also seems frankly dishonest to ignore that the idiots who keep harping on about how the French have all the flaws are also Parisian journalists. When you go to the countryside, ask for directions, and you’ll easily find a hand to guide you. Try that in Paris, but be very, very patient....

I’m not trying to prove anything, and I don’t hold any animosity toward Parisians (only since I’ve traveled outside our borders). Because if I went by the ones I meet in the provinces, I’d definitely have some, for sure. I don’t like jerks, and I don’t care if they don’t like me back. That said, few people from the provinces appreciate them, as they’re so arrogant, thinking they’re the center of the world. I’m just tired of hearing nonstop that the French have all the flaws and realizing that a bunch of people repeat it like parrots because they’ve been brainwashed. Yet when I share plenty of anecdotes proving the opposite (like we easily do for other countries), suddenly they remember that they, too, have had positive experiences in France.

So why my fixation on Parisians? Because it’s often from the capital that these rants about the French originate.

You clearly have a real misunderstanding of "tourism in France"—believing that tourism is just about visiting PARIS is a huge mistake, and it dismisses all the Belgian, German, English, Spanish tourists, and those from various French provinces who explore the entire country....

I didn’t know journalism was only practiced in PARIS....

As for the Paris/province divide, it’s just a classic case of rejecting the other....

I have Parisian friends who’ve moved to the provinces, and friends from the provinces, and honestly, we rarely bring up where we’re from unless it’s about specific topics—food quality, job issues, quality of life, cost of living, politics, etc. Topics that sometimes divide us but don’t lead to rejection or envy....

PS / My farmer friends don’t live in la-la land—they know the struggles and harshness of rural life.... They’re no less respectable or friendly, and they’re certainly as valuable as your friends!

So try to be a little less dismissive when you talk about PARIS and Parisians. Stop spreading clichés and secondhand ideas since you’ve never even lived there!

I don’t like jerks either, but I know they’re everywhere—in PARIS, in the provinces, around the world.... But I also know we’re always someone else’s jerk! 🤪

It's not me who comes up with tourism statistics...

Honestly, either I'm not expressing myself clearly, or you just can't read. Did I say tourism is all about Paris? No, very specifically, I said that most tourists go to Paris, and therefore, we should give credit where it's due. Tourists aren’t just Europeans, and to be honest, right now I’m more interested in other continents.

Journalism isn’t just about Paris, no, but if you want to bury your head in the sand, go ahead. The fact remains that it’s not in *Le Midi Libre*, *La Provençale*, or others that those ridiculous articles about the "mentality" of the French are written.

"As for the Paris/province divide, it’s a classic case of rejecting the other...

The classic intellectual bad faith! If I had, as you say, a rejection of others, I wouldn’t have Parisian friends since I’m supposed to hate them. I get that you don’t like people criticizing Parisians, but stop twisting my words to rally the fence-sitters. Though, "twisting others’ words to rile up fools" has become a habit our politicians use. Clearly, they have followers...

"I have Parisian friends who moved to the provinces, provincial friends, and honestly, we rarely bring up where we’re from unless it’s about specific topics—food quality, job issues, quality of life, cost of living, politics, etc. Sometimes these topics divide us, but they don’t lead to rejection or envy..."

Oh, so you never discuss the causes or behaviors within your own regions that affect your "quality of life"? That’s rich...

From what I’ve read from my critics, your arguments are based solely on personal attacks. Taking phrases out of context, only picking what suits you, lumping people with different opinions together just to create a smear in the minds of fools—it’s almost like some of you can’t resist insulting me. It vaguely rings a bell...

"So try to be less dismissive when you talk about PARIS and Parisians. Stop spreading clichés and secondhand ideas since you’ve never even lived there!"

Just read above, and you’ll understand why I’d rather trust the guy who honestly tells me how he felt during his trip than your two-bit rambling.

Go for it, my "friend"! (well, sort of ;)) Parisians, you know the type... Parisian snobs, etc. (ad lib)

Stay focused! You’ll get there.

And a little Brassens to back up the point 😉

It’s true that all those little villages are charming, All those towns, hamlets, localities, cities, With their fortresses, churches, beaches— They’ve only got one flaw: they’re inhabited. And they’re inhabited by people who look down On everyone else from their high walls, The breed of chauvinists, the flag-wavers, The smug fools who were born somewhere, The smug fools who were born somewhere.

Damn those children of their motherland, Impaled once and for all on their steeple, Who show off their towers, museums, town halls, Make you see their homeland until you’re cross-eyed. Whether they’re from Paris, Rome, Sète, Or the back of beyond, or Zanzibar, Or even Montcuq—they’re so proud of it, The smug fools who were born somewhere, The smug fools who were born somewhere.

The sand where their cozy ostriches Bury their heads—you won’t find anything finer. As for the air they use to inflate their egos, Their soap bubbles are made of divine breath. Little by little, they work themselves up, Convinced that even the manure from Wooden horses makes everyone else jealous, The smug fools who were born somewhere, The smug fools who were born somewhere.

It’s not just a cliché in their minds—they truly pity The unlucky ones, The poor souls who didn’t have the presence of mind To be born where they were. When the alarm sounds for their fragile happiness, Against foreigners—all more or less barbarians— They crawl out of their holes to die in war, The smug fools who were born somewhere, The smug fools who were born somewhere.

My God, how good life would be on Earth If we didn’t keep running into that absurd breed, That annoying race that’s everywhere, The race of locals, the homegrown folks. Life would be beautiful in every way If you hadn’t pulled all these clowns from the void, Maybe proof of your non-existence, The smug fools who were born somewhere, The smug fools who were born somewhere

:)))) I'm not sure I'm your "friend," I prefer the kind of consumption that makes life easier to the kind that would take me back to the oxcart (laugh). My bad for not pleasing everyone.

Nice catch with the Brassens song! 😏😉

Reading through my detractors' posts, I see that your arguments are based solely on personal attacks.

Your bad faith is pathetic... as usual, whenever someone challenges your arguments, you resort to personal attacks...

If you counter my arguments with actual arguments, I won’t have any objections.

I’m criticizing Parisians as a whole—if you take it personally, that’s your issue. I never said, "You’re a narrow-minded Parisian, blah blah blah."

You talk about my bad faith, but saying I’m hiding behind personal attacks when *you* (not just you individually, but all of you) keep criticizing me personally—what’s that about?

You call *that* arguments?

"Your bad faith is pathetic" <= take that back, it’s on you.

Isn’t it you who said earlier that what gives the French a bad reputation is Parisians...? Well, if that statement isn’t a generalization... So I’ll say it again—you’re being unfair. Anyway, I’ll leave you to your so-called argument. I don’t judge you, and I don’t judge others either, preferring to form my own opinion...

I don’t know if all Parisians are rotten, but even here, I’ve noticed that the people who are the rudest and most condescending in their replies (toward me and probably others) are very often from Paris (gileb, kujila, etc.), the Paris region (gildadesilesdefrance ;), etc.), and I even suspect kola is from the area! That says it all.

As for attila, I have serious doubts too—probably from the same rotten corner (oops, I mean Paris, what a slip-up!).

The least "arrogant" ones: djalma (though he admits he’s originally from "Île-de-France"—the only island covered in concrete and not even surrounded by water. Too bad, we could’ve had some peace).

Anyway, Paris is proof that your environment really shapes your mindset and behavior (walls and concrete = cold, rigid minds).

But this applies to all big cities, in France and elsewhere. Just look at Marseille, where people kill each other over cigarettes like in a Western—even chimpanzees are more peaceful!

And I rarely come across "big shots," dealers, or snobby bourgeois types in small villages. But to each their own, I guess.

The funniest part is places like the Bois de Boulogne and others, where the "horny apes" from the city come out at night when their primal urges take over.

Either way, Paris is a place I’ll only ever pass through if I have to—like when I can’t avoid CDG or Roissy ;)

The least "arrogant": djalma (though he admits he’s from "l'île de France"—the only island covered in concrete and not even surrounded by water. Too bad, we could’ve had some peace)

Even though I’ve spent most of my life in Île-de-France and Paris, I don’t feel more connected to Paris than anywhere else. I don’t really have roots in the sense that I don’t care where people are from—whether they were "born somewhere" or come from this or that place. I don’t think it’s a sign of intelligence or insight to believe there are regions or even countries where people are inherently better than others. Life in big cities (like Paris, London, or Berlin) can bring out certain traits while suppressing others, just as rural life can develop strengths and highlight flaws. The "peasant" mentality isn’t all good! Prejudices (against foreigners, people from other regions, etc.) are often much stronger in the "countryside" than in cities. While rural folks may have common sense and practicality, they can also be stubborn and closed off to anything new… When I was a kid, I lived in underprivileged neighborhoods in northeast Paris where there was way more solidarity, mutual aid, and understanding—even among people from different ethnic backgrounds—than in other regions.

Oh right, because *you*, of course, are neither arrogant nor rotten, nor condescending nor a copycat, with that lovely rant?

While I *relatively* agree (note the nuance) with you that our living environment influences behavior, given your last post, I’ll gracefully refrain from asking where you live.

I’m also a former Parisian (a repentant one?) since I spent my first 21 years there (except for the first two, when I was born in Morocco and toddled around the southern Sahara like a true Berber nomad—living in a tent because my dad was working on road construction in the area at the time). After that, I moved around the Parisian suburbs and eventually left the region, which was becoming increasingly unbearable both in terms of human connections and quality of life. I spent some time in the Limousin area and near Toulouse, but I never really felt tied to my "origins". I’m happy wherever the place is good—geographically and humanly. Just a bit stuck in the Francophone world, even though I read and watch a lot of Anglo-Saxon works. I’ve relocated outside France because my home country made economic survival impossible (chronic unemployment since no one hires you past 40). But money isn’t the only reason—human relationships have become completely hollow. So no attachments left. I’m just a "French" citizen on paper because I have a passport and nationality.

And for those who’d trot out the old line "we live so well in France-the-world-envies-us"—how well would *they* live if the state granted them a lavish retirement of 81 € per month with zero job prospects anywhere?

Even if I were to say that Parisians or all human beings are "rotten" or bad (myself included, of course), I wouldn’t think of it in absolute terms. I believe that stupidity, like malice, isn’t the "intrinsic nature" of beings (humans included). As an idealist, I even think that living beings, including humans (and thus Parisians too ;)), have a "true nature" that’s good and honest. Maybe humans are "good in their natural state," as Rousseau thought, before being corrupted by life in society or urban environments.

And when I talk about people being "contemptuous" or "rotten" or use other harsh words, I attribute it only to their "surface ignorance," their ego, their suffering, their past experiences, and indeed, their living environment (no need to go as far as Lamarck’s theories, who, unlike Darwin, claimed that "function creates the organ" or that "the living environment shapes character or tendencies," but there’s some truth to it—environment influences minds and behaviors).

So, everyone is capable of change, whether they’re "country folk" or city dwellers, from here or elsewhere.

I don’t even think that a person from sub-Saharan Africa, the Maghreb, Asia, or anywhere else is fundamentally different from a Caucasian European, a Mongoloid, an Amerindian, or a Micronesian. We all share the same fundamental traits and nature, the same quest for happiness, the same suffering, desires, birth, life, death, etc. Ultimately, I believe all living beings share the same nature and face the same challenges.

So, I’m far from wanting to differentiate a Parisian from someone from the provinces, except "for show" 😉 or to provoke. Beyond clichés like "all rotten, all nice" (there are very nice Parisians and total jerks, just like everywhere), I think there are tendencies and behaviors that develop more or less depending on social or ethnic groups, etc.

Good evening,

Oh dear, you’ve all wandered into some strange debates... I’m Parisian, and I’m always very kind to tourists—my English helps, of course. I’m a born-and-bred Parisian, proud of it, but totally outside the ‘norms.’ When I travel myself, I try to treat tourists the way I’d like to be treated when I’m a bit lost abroad. It’s just basic manners and a natural exchange, in my opinion.

J

Have a great evening and happy travels!!

I’m a born-and-bred Parisian, proud of it but totally outside the ‘norms’

Oh yeah, for sure! It’s not every day you meet Parisians who raise horses in Paris—underground, in apartment basements, no less! 😉