Why do we always think that "ELSEWHERE" is better than our own country? (page 9 of 23)

Maybe the undergrowth of Parisian apartment blocks is better than the rough areas of the Bois de Boulogne and Vincennes? After taking a look at Miss Fiji’s profile, I don’t see where you got the idea about her equestrian training spots—but oh well...! Vietalier

Is it really better, perhaps, to have the undergrowth of Parisian apartment buildings than the rough areas of the Bois de Boulogne and Vincennes?

I’d heard of the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, but undergrowth in a Parisian apartment building? Never.

Hello Fidjigirl, Well done for pointing out the odd side of the objections raised here and there about exchanges—or spots—that don’t call for it in the slightest. Honestly, it really gets on my nerves how some people get lost in arguments sparked by a single word or phrase, completely straying from the original topic. I’d say if some folks have that much time to waste, they should be a bit more self-critical, clean up their own act, and stop PISSING OFF others—those who actually have a coherent point and stay on topic. I don’t mean to sound like a preachy moralist, but when things go too far, the lid blows off and all that pent-up frustration comes spilling out! (See my reply to Djalma.) As for you, Fidjigirl, warm forum greetings to you, and see you soon. Vietalier

A horse made of wax? There are plenty of straw men around.

😎You really made me laugh, especially since I didn’t even remember that photo with my great friend, the champion (now retired) Marathon Man... here in his stall before a race in Les Sables-d'Olonne: !!! haha !! Anyway, I love the Luberon—it’s been so long since I’ve been there...

😉Thanks, dear Vietelier...

At first, I didn’t catch the bit about the horse in the basement either, but I found it funny when I remembered my profile picture with that great champion and my very dear friend Marathon Man... in the photo, in his stall for his last French race in Les Sables-d'Olonne.

It’s true, people often fall apart these days—it’s the times we live in, a real disaster... Let’s face it, the internet is still a place where you can let loose without too much risk (though... that Face of Book I use a lot is apparently pretty Big Brother-ish, but I don’t care). Many of us lack real communication at a time when it’s supposed to be at its peak (unlimited this, BlackBerry that), everyone locked in their headphones, spilling their often crappy lives into the ears of every random person around. I see you in Vietnam—somewhere I’d love to go but hesitate because of the unbearable animal conditions I’ve heard about... Safe travels to you!

Good evening Fidjigirl, I really like your way of writing and your humor—both are so lively. About Vietnam, just so you know, I was born there and still speak the language fluently. I’ve been back 11 times since 1997 and have made or renewed some friendly, warm, and valuable connections for those who want to visit. Since ads aren’t allowed here on V-Forum, you can send me your email address in a private message so that, if you’re considering it, I can give you more details and tell you more about this country I know very well. If you’d prefer to stay under the anonymity of V-Forum’s public messages, I won’t take it personally and will keep corresponding through this channel and your username. Wishing you a great evening. Best regards— Vietalier.

I really like your writing style and your humor—both very much alive. For Vietnam, know that I was born there and still speak the language fluently; I’ve returned 11 times since 1997 and have built or rekindled friendly, warm, and valuable connections for those who want to visit. Since ads aren’t allowed on V-Forum, you can share your email details in a private message so that, if you’re considering it, I can give you more info and tell you more about this country I know very well. If you’d prefer to stay anonymous on V-Forum’s public messages, rest assured I won’t take it personally and will keep corresponding through this channel and your username. Wishing you a great evening—best regards, Vietalier.

At least we’re staying on topic here! (as you wanted)

I’d say that if some people have time to waste like this, they should be a little more self-critical, clean up their own act, and stop PISSING OFF others,

I think Djalma was joking—I didn’t take it literally (lol, as they say on Facebook). I’d happily give you my email, but I don’t know how to use this forum’s ‘private mailbox.’ Could someone tell me how? I don’t think I’ll be going to Vietnam this year, but maybe in 2015 (if the world lets us). As I mentioned, I’ve been told that animal conditions are really shocking for someone like me who’s sensitive to animal welfare. Seeing dog and cat markets might make me lose it… I’m hesitant to visit the country because of that. Thanks, have a good evening or day

Good evening Fidjigirl, For private messages, it's really easy: Go to the "MY ACCOUNT" section (top right of the V-Forum window); there, keep the pointer pressed and scroll down to "MY PRIVATE MESSAGES", then click on "SEND A NEW PRIVATE MESSAGE", and finally write what you want to send, specifying the username of the person you want to contact. For Vietnam, while it's true that dog is eaten there—especially in the North—you never see the breeding or slaughter sites. As for butcher shops selling this meat, they're discreet enough that tourists usually don’t notice them. Besides, this dish is a luxury, and its prices are only affordable for the well-off, who aren’t exactly everywhere. As for cats, they aren’t part of Vietnamese menus, and you rarely see them in homes since they’re not as prized as pets as they are here. That said, once you're there, you can ask your guides to avoid any places where you might see dog meat displays—thịt chó or thịt cầy in Vietnamese. Here’s a start to your info; I hope to hear from you—privately—soon and wish you a good night. Best regards — Vietalier.

Since we're on a travel forum, I'm implying "traveling abroad is better than traveling in your own country." I’d also like to correct the "why always think that..." part: it’s not "always" but "often"...

I think those who prefer "their own country" might need a certain sense of security, or perhaps they lack self-confidence or fear not being able to adapt to an environment different from their own. Maybe there are also some navel-gazers or nationalists who claim that everywhere else is hell, as J.P. Sartre might have written.

Going abroad, leaving your country, traveling far—it’s about seeking maximum disorientation and perhaps unconsciously escaping your worries, your daily life, running away: "drop everything and go far away." It’s also about being exposed to all those over-the-top tourist ads that make us dream and consume.

Personally, I travel—I go away—less far than before, due to financial constraints and also because I realize there are so many places to discover in Corsica, in France...

Hi Chnoupi, I’m not concerned by the "ALWAYS" or the "OFTEN"—I just stick to observing the WHEN YOU CAN and the WHEN YOU WANT. Everything else—emotional states and convoluted philosophy—I leave entirely to those who want to indulge in it, as long as they don’t come bother me with it. Travel remains what it should be: the pleasure of somewhere else... whether 10,000 kilometers away or just beyond your doorstep. Best to all on the forum from Vietalier.

Hello Chnoupi, Not affected by the "ALWAYS" or the "OFTEN," I simply observe the WHEN WE CAN and the WHEN WE WANT. Everything else—emotional states and convoluted philosophy—I leave entirely to those who want to indulge in it, as long as they don’t come bother me with it. Travel remains what it should be: the pleasure of somewhere else... whether 10,000 kilometers away or just beyond your doorstep. Best regards to the Vietalier forum community.

Jean-Claude, Can you explain your reaction that seems to hit a nerve? I don’t want to think I’m the cause of your frustration! I do agree with you, though, about the pleasure of discovering somewhere else—sometimes just outside your home. Or even at home, by escaping "in your head," by dreaming... But that’s another story, one that goes beyond your "limits" and touches on issues like poor housing, for example: "when we can," as you highlight in bold, italics, and uppercase. Warm regards, Pat

In any case, there's one obvious fact: while France is producing more and more poor people (and, as if that weren't enough, it's massively importing them too), it's not possible to live in France, poorly but with dignity. Where I am (South America), there are loads of people living on small plots with shacks made of planks or poor-quality bricks. If they're careful (and I must admit that's not always the case) and keep things clean, and if they put flowers around their little shack, it immediately has a certain charm because human dignity is preserved. In France, you can only be homeless—that is, completely degraded. That's why I feel justified in saying that "ELSEWHERE is much better than your own country" if you're not a civil servant (well-paid! though there are also poor civil servants) or a CAC 40 rentier.

You're absolutely right, Antlia! We can also mention those who can't travel "far": the poor, some sick or disabled people. In my discussion, I skipped over this ever-growing population, even though it fits within the scope of the question.

I'm one of those lucky few who still have the choice to travel "elsewhere," "far away." Even with my modest retirement that gives me a roof over my head, food, and decent healthcare—I’m content with it, yet I’m not happy!

While pointing an accusatory finger at the "big shots" of our world: MPs, senators, high-ranking politicians, government officials, religious leaders, and corporate bosses... I know I’ll ruffle some feathers, but I stand by it 😉

It’s true that at our age, we’ve kept our energy and critical thinking (I know a lovely retired woman who helps young Argentinians with their school life in some remote village in the Atacama that I jokingly call "Triffouilly-les-vigognes"). The real question is: today’s young people, who have no prospects and know it, would rather rot where they are in France than get off their backsides to see if the grass is greener elsewhere than the yellowed straw of their bitter homeland. And teaming up with a seasoned adventurer? Not only does it not reassure them (it’s totally understandable to have a knot in your stomach when you’re diving into the unknown alone and inexperienced), but it’s the ultimate taboo.

And teaming up with a seasoned adventurer not only doesn’t reassure them (...) but it’s the ultimate abomination.

Too bad we only hear one side of the story—maybe they have reasons other than the so-called "experience" of the so-called adventurer...😇

Hello Chnoupi,

As much as my reaction might come off as a tad rude, I stand by it and here’s why: You can, just like me, read plenty of posts that clutter up V-Forum, where their authors grab a word or a sentence from someone else’s message, then rush to expound on it, veering off-topic and missing the point entirely. Along the way, they drop these long-winded philosophy treatises or outright gibberish that... DRIVE US UP THE WALL!!! — That said, this last bit was only aimed at those folks and wasn’t meant to lump you in with that crowd of nuisances, who should really think twice and show a little more respect for others who end up tripping over their ramblings.

When it comes to using bold and italics, I wanted to highlight that wanting and being able are personal choices that can be shared—but not necessarily. I respect everyone’s FREE WILL in that regard.

On another note, I took an interested look at your profile on VForum. Your eclecticism reflects a healthy curiosity that I share. Let me explain further: stories about cuckolds who are beaten and happy (outside of boulevard theater) don’t interest me, nor do tales of reckless stunts abroad where people act tough for no good reason. I’d much rather observe life in general and engage with those who have common sense and goodwill—no hidden agendas, no airs, no Louis XV-style flourishes.

Your trip along the Huguenot Trail will no doubt be a chance to revisit some painful pages of history. Will you share your experiences in future travel journals? — I’m not particularly religious, but it turns out my maternal grandfather was a Huguenot. I’ve also worked in the Cévennes and Languedoc—deeply Huguenot lands—and I’ve read and reread JP. Chabrol, who wrote so eloquently about the Reformation and the dragonnades ordered by Louis XIV. I’ve followed his Fools of God step by step, a story set in an area where I used to pick porcini and chanterelle mushrooms at the first autumn rains.

Anyway, Chnoupi, now that the misunderstanding is cleared up, I’d be happy to chat with you again. Best regards— Vietalier/Jean-Claude.

Me or someone else (it's true that a personal relationship is where subjectivity lies—you either want to be with someone or you don’t) it’s all the same: they don’t take off. So my question isn’t psychological but sociological. Youth has found itself trapped in this category, in Hegel’s sense, pure commercial reification, then political when the State realized there was a way to slice up any protest that would’ve been impossible if it had stood united.

I didn’t get it, but you must be right to say all that, especially when it’s all the same. 🤪 Or maybe my neuron is tired before being restocked with wild boar protein (it’s cooking right now). 😏