Looking for feedback and advice on a Thailand-Laos-Cambodia itinerary plan

Hi there,

https://www.thailand-ticket.de/Bangkok-Hotel-Buchen/central-thailand-map.htm https://www.thailand-ticket.de/issan/issan-map.htm

This is the first time I’ve seen someone on a forum planning to visit Uthai Thani. Since I don’t know the city, I’d love a quick rundown of what you’ve found to see or do there—thanks!

Ayutthaya, Kanchanaburi, and Uthai Thani (...). - Then, I’d like to cross the country from west to east

I don’t think heading due east from Uthai Thani makes the most sense in terms of transport or interest before reaching Isan (the name for the northeast of the country). Since you’re planning to stop in Ayutthaya, it’d be better to do the trip in this order: Bangkok-Kanchanaburi-Uthai Thani-Ayutthaya-arrival in Isan.

arrive at the Laos border. I’d appreciate any stops that seem interesting along this route, since I don’t know this part of Thailand at all...

Following the logic of what I suggested above, starting from Ayutthaya by train, here are the towns/sites I know:

Stop in Pakchong to visit Khao Yai National Park with a wildlife guide—plan for at least 2 nights. This guesthouse is great for organizing forest treks (though you won’t be alone—it’s well-organized...) and the rooms are decent if you’re not looking for luxury: http://www.greenleaftour.com/rooms.html If you let them know your arrival time at the station, they’ll pick you up. Then take the train again to Khorat. For the Ayutthaya-Pakchong-Khorat train, the Express 71 is preferable.

Khorat: a big, ugly, congested, and polluted city... You’ll have to pass through, but just to catch a bus (1h15) to the more pleasant town below:

Phimai: a charming small town, great for 2-3 nights with a few accommodations and some of the region’s most interesting Khmer ruins right in the city center. You could get there the same day you leave Ayutthaya or Pakchong. However, it’ll be tricky to leave (few options) for your next destination without going back through Khorat (but it’s only a 1h15 bus ride), or ask the driver to drop you off at the Phimai/Route 2 junction and wait for another ride there.

Yasothon: an ugly town, a must-visit 4 days a year for its rocket festival (not during your trip), completely forgettable the rest of the year.

Roi Et: a peaceful and pleasant town with its artificial lake in the city center (a bit like the vibe in Phayao, up north), great for 2-3 nights. A few other things to see in the area.

That’s all for the places I know in this part of Isan.

You didn’t ask about Kanchanaburi and its province. I’ve been there at least fifty times, from 4 nights to 2 months, for all sorts of reasons—so if you need info, you know where to ask.

In the south, aside from Hua Hin (which I hated), I only know cities that aren’t by the sea, so I won’t go into detail: Phetchaburi*, Trang, Phatthalung, and Nakhon Si Thammarat* * Worth staying 3 nights.

Phimai:



Yasothon when you’re there at the right time:



Phetchaburi:



Nakhon Si Thammarat:

In southern Thailand, I really liked Phattalung—a small town with neighborhoods built on stilts by Lake Thale Noi. Fishing activities and everywhere you look, locals weaving baskets while sitting in front of their doors. A sunrise boat trip to see the birds (gorgeous, but I didn’t have the right photo gear). It’s an international meet-up spot for bird lovers!

Since I’ve never posted photos on this site, I just extracted a few JPEGs from my catalog in the right format for VF... but it won’t accept them, with the message: Oops! An error occurred: You tried to upload an attached file, but this feature has been disabled. I’ve had this issue before. So many crashes with this new VF. It’s really discouraging.

Thanks Songsam for your reply—I’ll study it closely and note the destinations you mentioned.

About Uthai Thani, it was this article that made me want to check out "the little purple town": https://thailande-et-asie.com/visite-ville-uthai-thani

As for Kanchanaburi, it was this page (on the same site) and the photos of Wat Tham Suea temple that caught my eye. The place looks pretty magical with the rice field plain and the temples on the hill: https://thailande-et-asie.com/kanchanaburi-visite-au-wat-tham-suea-et-alentours

Okay for doing Bangkok-Kanchanaburi-Uthai Thani-Ayutthaya first, then heading toward Isan. I’d actually hesitated, and if it’s easier, I’ll follow your advice no problem. I’ll check out all the cities you mentioned in Isan—thanks a bunch!

For the south, I’d also passed through Hua Hin and didn’t like it either (a beach resort for the wealthy), but I might stay there one night as my first stop toward the south. I’ll look into the other cities you mentioned too.

Thanks for your reply—there’s already tons of useful info, and if you’ve got any tips for Kanchanaburi, I’m all ears! ;-)

PS: And thanks for the maps—they’re great for seeing the main routes and rail lines! !

Thanks Gaura, I’ll note down Phattalung and check it out (Songsam mentioned it too, so it can’t be bad!).

For the photos, are you definitely using the two buttons "1. Choose a photo" then "2. Upload the photo" under "Add a photo to the message"? Once that’s done, you can then choose to insert the photo into the text...

That’s what I did yesterday, and it worked without any issues. But hey, a bug is always possible...

I also recommend Prachuap Khiri Khan—beautiful beach, quiet town, prices and daily life typically Thai, and few foreign tourists. For photos... I’ve been on VF for 15 years, I know the site, but lately the crashes have been multiplying. I just tried again on the off chance... same message

Uthai Thani looks really interesting. To get there from Kanchanaburi without going back through Bangkok, I think I remember that the Kanchanaburi-Chiang Mai bus stops in Chainat, which is very close. Take the morning bus because the others will pass through in the middle of the night. I can confirm that Wat Tham Suea is nice to visit. However, to get there from Kanchanaburi, there’s no direct public transport for the whole journey—you’ll first need to take a bus or songthaew to Tha Muang, and from there, a motosai. Otherwise, consider renting a motorbike or car, or hiring a motosai (make sure to bargain!) directly in Kan. It’s a 2-3 hour trip including the visit.

If you have any tips for Kanchanaburi, I’d love to hear them! ;-)

For the town of Kanchanaburi and its immediate surroundings, plan for 4 nights; for the whole province, count about a week. For a bit of inspiration, you can read my reply from 01/09 at 6:23 PM here: https://voyageforum.com/forum/vos-recommandations-20-jours-en-thailande-d10779172-1/ For the rest, I’ll let you explore the town and province before answering any more specific questions you might have.

Here’s a link that might give you some extra ideas for Uthai Thani: https://voyageforum.com/forum/thailande-naturel-d9734063-6/

Just a heads-up—the buffalo market is only on Tuesdays.

As for the hotel I chose, it was the Uthaithani Resort.

Thanks Songsam,

Thanks to your info, I’ve started planning the Kanchanaburi leg. Here’s what I’m thinking, with a few questions about what you mentioned:

- Arriving in Kanchanaburi, and I’ll stay for 3 nights to explore the town and surroundings, probably renting a scooter—it’s more flexible that way. Specifically, the Bridge on the River Kwai (a must-see, but apparently quick to visit), Wat Tham Suea, Wat Tham Khao Pun, maybe the "giant tree," and surely other spots. If you’ve got any recommendations, I’m all ears. For Erawan Park and/or Sai Yok Park, though, I’m not sure how to handle it... should I choose between the two? They seem touristy but also really beautiful. I’m thinking of going by bus unless I take an organized "tour." What do you think? - Then I’d like to follow your suggestion: take the train, get off at Tham Krasae, join the road, then waterfall, Hellfire Pass... all the way to Thong Pha Phum. That should make for a great day! But I don’t see myself doing all that while carrying my backpack (I’m not as young as I used to be)... Do you know if it’s possible to have my backpack transported to Thong Pha Phum by van/minibus (hotel to hotel)? I imagine it can be arranged? - One night in Thong Pha Phum, then heading to SangkhlaBuri: you mentioned 3 nights—do you confirm? The place seems worth staying to soak in the atmosphere and vibe! - Then back to Kanchanaburi for one night and leaving the next day via Uthai Thani, taking the bus to Chiang Mai and getting off at Chainat.

Here’s my first draft—8 days spent in Kanchanaburi. Thanks for any comments and suggestions! ;-)

Good evening Pled,

http://patricklepetit.jalbum.net/KANCHANABURI/MAPROOM/map-of-kanchanaburi.jpg

by renting a scooter, you’re more free that way.

Yes, with a motorcycle license plus the international one.

If you recommend any, I’m interested.

In town, there’s this little temple near the river located here 14° 1'37.32"N 99°31'26.46"E that’s nice (and quiet since few travelers know it exists). I’ll post a photo of it below.

For Erawan Park and/or Sai Yok Park, though, I’m not sure how to go about it... do I have to choose between these two parks? They seem touristy but also very beautiful... I imagine going by bus

For Erawan, located on route 3199, there are buses. For Sai Yok Noi and the short turnoff to Sai Yok Yai N.P., both located on route 323, any bus or minivan heading to Thong Pha Phum or Sangkhlaburi can drop you off there. Route 3457 connects 3199 and 323, but no public transport runs on it, which means to go from Erawan to Sai Yok Noi or Yai, you either need your own wheels or have to go back through Kanchanaburi... but if you have your own wheels, you can’t take the train to Tham Krasae or Namtok 😕 So I’d recommend going to Erawan round-trip from Kanchanaburi.

unless I take an organized "tour"...

A tour for Erawan and Sai Yok Noi (probably including Phrasat Muang Sing*), that should be available. But for Erawan and Sai Yok Yai, probably not, since it’s too far to do both in one day. After three visits to Sai Yok Yai N.P., I don’t remember seeing any tour buses—it’s a pretty quiet spot, and people go there with friends, family, or as a couple to spend a night on a raft, in a floating hotel, or in a bungalow. Accommodations for a solo traveler can get quite expensive. You can also just stop by Sai Yok Yai to see the nice scenery, but even for an hour, you’ll have to pay the park entrance fee (200 or 400 baht, I don’t remember which). Same at Erawan, by the way.

* The westernmost ruins of the Khmer Empire. Accessible by train from Takilen station + motorbike taxi or scooter since it’s not too far from Kan, or through an agency. However, it’s impossible to do as a train stop between Kan and Tham Krasae or Namtok due to the schedules.

- Then I’d like to follow your suggestion of taking the train, getting off at Tham Krasae, joining the road, then waterfall, Hellfire Pass... all the way to Thong Pha Phum. That should make for a great day!

Yes, roughly leaving at 5 AM and arriving in the late afternoon makes for a great day... Personally, between Tham Krasae and route 323, I ended up hitchhiking for the 3-4 km uphill.

But I don’t see myself doing all that while carrying my backpack (I’m not that young anymore)... Do you know if it’s possible to have my backpack transported to Thong Pha Phum by van/minibus (hotel to hotel)? I imagine it can be done?

What Thais commonly do anywhere is go to the bus station and have a package checked in to be put on a bus to the chosen destination, where someone is waiting to receive it. But in your case, from hotel to hotel... In Thailand, you can often solve a problem just by talking about it around you, especially at your accommodation’s reception, so don’t hesitate to ask them the day before or earlier—they might have a solution for you (I’d bet 51% they do).

Sangkhlaburi: you mention 3 nights, do you confirm?

Yes. Or more. It’s a relaxing town in a pretty setting. In that area, 15° 8'41.69"N 98°27'7.35"E, you have access points leading down to the floating houses, some of which are nice little restaurants.

Kanchanaburi, the little-known temple:



Sangkhlaburi, Wat Wang Wiwekaram temple in the village on the other side of the wooden bridge:

A bit of adventure off the beaten path and a way to avoid crowds of tourists: visit the Huay Mae Khamin waterfalls!

How do you get there?

Thanks, it sounds great, but how do you actually get there? Because I see it's 110 km from Kanchanaburi and 43 km past the Erawan intersection.

Doing a round trip by scooter from Kanchanaburi in one day seems like a lot... Unless you hire a taxi for the day? That explains why there aren’t many people there...

Especially the Bridge on the River Kwai, of course (a must-see but it seems to be quick to visit)

To get good lighting (for photos), see a train passing, and avoid crowds, the only decent time to go is at 7 AM for the Namtok-Thonburi train. Be patient, though—trains are rarely on time. At any other time, it’ll either be too dark, too bright, or packed with people. You can walk on the bridge, even when a train is passing (they go very slowly and signal well in advance), because there are visible niches—check the two photos below. Nearby: T-shirt vendors, other souvenirs, an exhibit of old rusty railway vehicles used during construction, and riverside cafés/restaurants. Not far away on Maenam Kwae Road, there’s a museum about the bridge, but it’s not great. You’re better off visiting the JEATH Museum and the one on the street to the right of the Allied War Cemetery (third photo). Plan for about an hour at the bridge.

Hi Pled,

maybe by Dakta

I don’t know the name—Google and Google Earth don’t either... Where is it?

Hi Songsam,

This is about the Nam Giang (VTN) / Dakta Ok (LAO) border crossing:

But anyway, I’ve kinda given up on the idea of making a detour through Vietnam and Hoi An. Even though it looks doable on the map—about 500 km from the TH-LA border at Savannakhet to Hoi An—it’s actually a lot of travel time, and I remember how rough the roads in Laos are (my back still hasn’t forgotten!). So even though the idea was nice, I think I’ll skip it, especially since the rest of the trip will probably fill up my two and a half months just fine. (Plus, I’d rather take my time than try to hit too many places.)

I’ve been busy this week, but I’m still planning my trip. I’ve almost finalized Uthai Thani, where I’ll stay for 3 nights (2 full days there), and I’ll start looking into Ayutthaya, where I’ve never been.

After that, I really like your suggestions for Isan. They follow a central route, leading to the border at Mukdahan/Savannakhet, which works well for me. I’ve seen there are lots of other places to see in Isan, especially along the borders, but on the Cambodian side, it’s not the best time to hang around there, and on the Laotian side, going too far north—like around Udon Thani—would make the route too long, I think.

arriving at the border in Mukhadan/Savannakhet,

Is entering Laos via Savannakhet still essential for you now that you’re no longer planning that detour to Hoi An?

Well, no, so far I haven’t looked into anything very serious for my Laos route... I just have the idea of heading south roughly along the Mekong. I’ve already been to Laos once, and I skipped the center (overnight bus from Pakse to Vientiane). So the plan is to explore the central part of the country.

The Mukdahan/Savannakhet border is just a rough estimate of where I’ll be after Roi Et (following the spots you recommended)... I even saw that a bit further north, there’s Thakhek with quite a few things to see or do around there: https://www.novo-monde.com/boucle-thakhek-konglor-cave-laos/

So that’s where I’m at: exploring the center of the country a bit, then heading down to Pakse and the 4,000 Islands before crossing into Cambodia.

I was ready to suggest a detailed route for you that goes through Prasat Phanom Rung and Khong Chiam before entering Laos via Pakse, but your new idea of entering through Tha Khek to visit the area is a good one. Nakhon Phanom is a pretty pleasant town.

Alright, the Thailand part is starting to take shape. Following your advice, it’d look something like this:

Bangkok (1 night) Kanchanaburi (3 nights) Thong Pha Phum (1 night) Sangkhlaburi (4 nights) -> I really like this place Kanchanaburi (1 night) Uthai Thani (3 nights) Ayutthaya (3 nights) Pakchong (2 nights) Phimai (3 nights) Roi Et (3 nights) Udon Thani (3 nights) Nakhon Phanom (3 nights)

There you go—all places I’ve never been to, and that already fills up a month without even realizing it! I’ll have to scale back my plans because traveling along the Mekong (Laos + Cambodia) is going to take some time. What’ll be left for southern Thailand?? Gotta make some tough choices... 😐 (another reason to forget Vietnam!).

On the other hand, I’m having trouble checking available transport. I usually use 12Go.asia, but it’s not giving me anything useful (except flights and private taxis). For example, from Roi Et... Do you know of a better site for this?

Udon Thani (3 nights)

Why such a big detour that’ll double the length of your Roi Et–Nakhon Phanom trip?

Personally, and especially as you get older, I’d **avoid** one-night stops—better to do fewer legs and really scope out the ones you pick. 4 nights in Sangkhlaburi seems like too much to me.

Well, because I can't find any direct transport between Roi Et and Nakhon Phanom... If I have to go back via Khon Kaen, then Udon Thani is on the way. But if there's a more direct route, I'm all ears...

Overnight stops are just passing-through stops where I don’t have much choice or that help avoid overly long travel days: - Thong Pha Phum: a stop after a long day. Maybe I could skip it and head straight to Shangkhlaburi, but I’m not sure... - Kanchanaburi: this is the return from Shangkhlaburi before catching a bus north the next morning, so it’s a must.

Because I can't find direct transport between Roi Et and Nakhon Phanom... If I have to go back via Khon Kaen, then Udon Thani is on the way. But if there's a more direct connection, I'm all ears...

I had a feeling, hence my not-so-naive question...😎

I've never done this route (I arrived in N. Phanom from Bueng Khan), but with my experience traveling by bus in Thailand, I can still tell you there will be a way—maybe not direct, perhaps with an immediate connection in Kalasin or Sakon Nakhon—but there will be one. No matter the option, you can make the trip in a single day if you leave Roi Et before 10 AM. The best place to find this info is always directly at the bus station (or from your hotel if there isn’t one) by asking the day before. Definitely not on sites like 12Go, which only show options that earn them money through bookings and carefully hide the ones you can’t reserve—like the bus(es) that’ll take you to N. Phanom.

I’m having trouble checking available transport: I usually use 12Go.asia

Bad habit.

I’ll have to scale back my plans

Already 3 nights saved...

Bangkok (1 night)

If your flight arrives before noon and you're feeling brave and energetic, you could easily skip this stop: from the airport, take a taxi to Mo Chit minivan station (Sathani Mo Chit Lot Tu) and hop on an air-conditioned minivan to Kanchanaburi. The trip takes 2.5–3 hours with several departures per hour (luggage on your lap).

Thong Pha Phum (1 night)

Or 2.

Ayutthaya (3 nights)

3 nights is great if you have the time. Don’t miss the boat ride at sunset—it lets you see some ruins in a different light, creating a whole new atmosphere. Ask your accommodation to arrange it for you.

Nakhon Phanom (3 nights)

Or 2.

Thong Pha Phum: A stop after a long day—maybe I can skip it and head straight to Sangkhlaburi, but not sure...

If you do the planned route (6-hour train to Kan, Tham Krasae, Sai Yok Noi, Hellfire Pass, maybe Sai Yok Yai), you’ll probably be pretty wiped out. Adding another 1.5–2 hours of bus or minivan to Sangkhlaburi... Plus, at that hour, you might not even find transport.

Thanks for all these details. I’m adjusting my plans accordingly.

- I arrive at 10:05 in Bangkok, so I can actually head straight to Mochit bus terminal to get to Kanchanaburi. Good point, especially since I always set aside 2 days at the end of my trip in Bangkok to do some shopping at Chatuchak Market... - Why not 2 nights in Thong Pha Phum if you suggest it... - And 2 nights in Nakhon Phanom—sounds good if I’m trying to save a few days...

That’s 4 days saved! 🙂

As for 12go.asia, yeah, I eventually figured out it only lists routes run by commercial companies—regular buses never show up...

Okay, moving on to Laos now. The first part in Thailand is pretty much set, though things can always change once I’m on the ground depending on unexpected stuff. But overall, the route is mapped out! 😎

Thanks so much for your help!

There are several buses, including the blue and white government buses, that travel directly between Kanchanaburi and Songkhlaburi. That’s one night saved!

the government blue and white buses, which run directly between Kanchanaburi and Songkhlaburi.

In nearly 40 years, I’ve only seen the 4-5 daily orange regular buses, the 3-4 daily red a/c1 or a/c2 buses (depending on the schedule) that used to run the Mo Chit-Kanchanaburi-Sangkhlaburi route—which no longer operate at that frequency—and minivans. Are you confusing them with the a/c1 bus 81 that runs Sai Tai-Kanchanaburi every 20 minutes? But in any case, the plan here is to take the train to Tham Krasae, then walk 5-6 km to Route 323 before hopping on and off to visit certain sites along the way to Thong Pha Phum, not to take the direct route, which will only be done on the return trip from Sangkhlaburi.

Ah okay, yeah probably.

I’m starting to plan a route in Laos, and so far it looks like this: - Thakhek, then Konglor in Phou Hin Poun National Park, which seems like a beautiful spot. I’m either going straight to Konglor or doing the famous loop—or part of it—but I’m not sure because 450 km seems like a lot to do by scooter. I’ll see what alternatives are possible once I’m there. - Then back to Thakhek and heading to Savannakhet, where I’ll stay for 2 or 3 days. So far, so good, but I’m realizing that between Savannakhet and Pakse, there’s practically nothing to see or places to stop!

So, I’m wondering if it might be better to cross back into Thailand at Mukdahan (across from Savannakhet), and head to Khong Chiam, probably via Ubon Ratchathani, then cross back into Laos and arrive in Pakse...

Any ideas for a Savannakhet–Pakse route via Thailand? ;-)

So paying for the Laotian visa twice...

I’ve never stopped in Mukdahan. Next is Ubon Ratchathani, a big city but quite open and pleasant for 2-3 nights. Accommodation of all kinds. Then head to Khong Chiam, a nice village (where I’m probably one of the few *farangs* to have gone twice...). That’s where another major river, the Mun, flows (splash!) into the Mekong—you can see the two rivers aren’t the same color. The village is quiet on weekdays, a bit livelier on weekends since it’s a Thai tourism spot, but even then it stays charming and peaceful. There’s a boat excursion nearby that Thais love. Several places to stay ranging from 500 to 1500 baht. Getting from U. Ratchathani to K. Chiam, two options: -A few direct *thamada* buses, but not many. Once I even ended up hitching the reverse trip. -Via Phibun Mangsahan (on the route of buses heading to the border). You get off in Phibun where the bus drops you—it’s not the bus station. You walk partway through the (small and quiet) town toward the modest bus station near the Mun and wait for a bus to K. Chiam. To continue to Laos after that, as you’ve figured out, no need to go back to U. Ratchathani—just change buses in Phibun M.

In Bangkok, I can actually head straight to Mochit bus station

Make sure to tell the taxi "Motchit Minivan" (Motchit Lot Tou), otherwise they’ll take you to the main station. Walking between the two only takes about ten minutes, but it’s poorly signposted, requires using an elevated walkway, and is a hassle when you’re lugging luggage—best to avoid it. At Motchit minivans, there are four small buildings side by side (A, B, C, D) depending on the destination. For Kanchanaburi, it’s building D.

So paying for the Laotian visa twice...

Oh damn, you're right—I thought with a one-month duration it would be fine, but no, if you leave early, it's over, you'll need a new one... :-( Well, if I have no choice, I'll do it.

To continue on to Laos after that, you’ve got it—no need to go back to U. Ratchathani, you change at Phibun M.

Oh, really? I was hoping to go directly from Khong Chiam to Chong Mek—I see a road on the map. But anyway, it's all very close, so if I have to go through Phibun M., no problem.

Monchit minivan, yeah, I’ve been there before! I arrived from Sukhothai by bus and ended up at Mo Chit "main." The day had been, let’s say, complicated from the morning, and I was super tight on timing. So I crossed that famous footbridge in full stress mode and made it to the minivan for Hua Hin with only 10 minutes to spare before the departure I’d booked on 12go.asia! I still remember it... After that, the driver was really speeding—it was a bit sketchy. I can tell you, my first beer in Hua Hin was *well* deserved! (Even if Hua Hin later disappointed me, but that’s another story.)

Thanks again for this info—always super helpful. I think I’ll do it this way, and I’ll minimize the kilometers on Laos’ roads too! ;-)

Oh, I was hoping to go directly from Khong Chiam to Chong Mek—I see a road on the map.

I see, route 2173 followed by 217. Check on the spot if there’s a regular songthaew at least as far as 217. Otherwise, since this shortcut makes the total trip to Chong Mek only 25 km, talk to your hotel owner—they might be able to sort something out and find someone willing to drive you for a few small bills. That’d be a max of 30 minutes compared to 2-3 hours by bus via Phibun, so I think it’d be worth a try, as long as the driver doesn’t charge an exorbitant amount, of course.

the departure of the minivan I booked on 12go.asia!

On the planned route so far, the only things I see you need to book are:

-The day before (on the spot), the minivan from Sangkhlaburi to Kanchanaburi. If you take the regular bus that takes 5 hours, it’s unnecessary (and impossible anyway) to book, but still check the schedules because there are only 4-5 departures per day.

-The day before at Ayutthaya station, the Express 71 train (recommended + upper class) for Ayutthaya-Pak Chong, and at the same time, this same 71 for two days later from Pak Chong to Khorat. Note that this last leg can also be done by minivan (whereas for Ayutthaya-Pak Chong, the train is really the best option). For everything else, you don’t need to book—just arrive at the bus station, buy your ticket, and go.

Don’t forget that for Kanchanaburi-Chainat, I wrote "I think I remember"—make sure to confirm this in advance. If it’s not correct, take an early regular bus to Suphanburi and check at the bus station upon arrival for the next leg to Uthai Thani or Chainat.

I think you might want to reconsider your entire route because there are some options that could make things unnecessarily complicated for you.

Well, so far this route doesn’t seem bad to me. The fact that it’s not all linear and easy isn’t a problem—juggling things a bit is part of the travel experience, and I don’t mind that. The most annoying thing I see is having to pay for the Laos visa twice, but Thakhek seems worth the detour, as does stopping in Khong Chiam... You’ve got to make choices, after all.

l'ensemble de votre parcours qui est à revoir car il y a des options qui vous compliquent la vie

I’m open to comments, info, and ideas—that’s the point of this post—but that’s way too general to be useful. What are these options that complicate things for me?

Here’s the updated itinerary:

THAILAND 1 Kanchanaburi (3 nights) Thong Pha Phum (2 nights) Sangkhlaburi (3-4 nights) Kanchanaburi (1 night) Uthai Thani (3 nights) Ayutthaya (3 nights) Pakchong (2 nights) Phimai (3 nights) Roi Et (3 nights) Nakhon Phanom (2 nights) LAOS 1 Thakhek - Konglor - Thakhek Loop (5 nights, details to be defined) Savannakhet (3 nights) THAILAND 2 Ubon Ratchathani (2 nights) Khong Chiam (3 nights) -- That’s 39 nights so far -- LAOS 2 (still to be defined) Paksé Bolaven Plateau loop Champasak Attapeu 4000 Islands Then crossing into Cambodia...

So that’s about a month and a half before Cambodia. At this pace, I can already forget about southern Thailand if I want to keep going like this. I can head south in Cambodia along the Mekong (I know and like the vibe in that part of the country), down to Kep (quieter) since Kampot disappointed me a bit 2 years ago. After that, depending on how many days I have left, I might go to Koh Chang / Koh Kood to finish in relax mode... (It’ll also depend on the border situation at the time—whether I have to go back through Phnom Penh to catch my flight...)

It’ll also depend on the state of the borders at that time: if you have to go back through Phnom Penh to catch your flight...

Hi there,

Are you planning ahead or waiting until the last minute for your flight ticket? I’m in the same boat and can’t decide whether to play it safe or not. Will there still be seats available? Won’t prices triple? 😕

-- That makes 39 nights so far -- LAOS 2 (still to be defined) Paksé Bolaven Plateau loop Champasak Attapeu 4000 Islands then crossing into Cambodia...

That’s about 1.5 months before Cambodia,

So about 6 nights for this Laos 2 plan—doesn’t that seem a bit too fast to you?

I’d add 5 extra nights for Laos 2, bringing it to 50 days before entering Cambodia. For example, 7 nights (including travel) for the final "relax mode" on a Thai beach + 3 nights in Bangkok for Chatuchak, leaving you with 15 nights for the Cambodia part—say, 5 stops of 3 nights each. That seems doable since you don’t seem to be planning a detour through the west of the country.

hi there,

I just read this:

Paksé Bolaven Loop Champasak Attapeu 4000 Islands then crossing into Cambodia...

Doing the Bolaven Plateau loop with stops all along the way (Tad Fan and Tad Lo, among others) and possibly some hikes is definitely worth it (personally, I really enjoyed it). However, I don’t think it’s necessary to go all the way to Attapeu. I passed through there on my way from Vietnam—it’s really wild and lush, but the town itself isn’t interesting at all. I didn’t see any other foreign tourists there. Taxis are rare, and there are no buses in the area; we mostly got around on foot in that town. If I’d been younger when I passed through, though, I would’ve loved it for the adventure of exploring the villages. In my opinion, it’s the most isolated and wild region in all of Laos.

On the Bolaven Plateau, a great spot near Tad Lo (if you want to visit Katu villages without going too far off the beaten path) is to stop at Somphone homestay in Ban Lavang (between Tad Lo and Thateng). Somphone is super friendly, also a hiking guide, and owns coffee and cocoa plantations... Worth checking out!

I think the entire route needs revisiting because some options are making things unnecessarily complicated for you.

I don’t see anything that complicates things—it’s just a "backpacker" route, a type that’s sadly becoming rare. I’m not used to seeing this kind of travel style in the Southeast Asia section of this forum, where most travelers seem to prefer things "sanitized or it’s the end of the world."

Hi Djalma, For a route across the Bolaven Plateau including the stops you recommend, what’s the ideal minimum number of days you’d suggest for the whole trip?

Hi, I did it by bus from Pakse with a return to Pakse... with 3 stops including 2 nights at Tad Fan, one at Tad Lo, and another a few kilometers from Tad Lo at Somphone’s village (Ban Lavang). So, in total, 4 nights on the plateau, and I didn’t do the "Grand" tour. However, I did 3 hikes of 5 to 6 hours—2 at Tad Fan, 1 at Tad Lo, and another full-day hike with Somphone... (Hiking to ethnic villages, waterfalls, etc., is kind of my thing.) You can do the grand tour in a single day if you rent a motorbike and just ride all day (many people do it), but in my opinion, the absolute minimum is 2 days. I didn’t rent a motorbike after meeting 2 people who broke down on the route + lots of flat tires!

P.S.: There’s a pretty detailed map here of the small and large loops on the Bolaven Plateau (no motorbike needed!😉)—what’s described in the guide is super easy to do if you take your time. https://kristof.club/plateau-bolovens-sans-moto/

And here’s a simple diagram: https://www.globe-trotting.com/post/plateau-des-bolovens-au-laos

Thanks for your two replies, Pled can draw inspiration from them.

For hiking enthusiasts in the area. The work is already well done! I particularly recommend it because some trails are relatively easy and even marked—rare in Laos! I regret not staying longer… The 4000 Islands further south were a bit disappointing. There’s also the Vat Phou site near Champassak, which is okay, but the bike ride is still nice. There’s also an island opposite Champassak (I’ve forgotten the name). You cross by boat with your bikes, and it’s a gorgeous ride too! Not many people compared to the islands near the Cambodian border (not quite overtourism yet, but close). https://kristof.club/tad-lo-boloven/

Hi Kate, I’ve already booked my Paris-Bangkok tickets for early September... (https://www.skyscanner.fr/). Last trip, I’d planned way ahead, worried about prices going up, but in the end, they were the same just a few weeks before departure. I don’t think there’s really a rule—unless there’s a big jump in oil prices...

For domestic flights, like Phnom Penh-BKK, I always book last minute. The price is still pretty low anyway.

Yes, thanks @Djalma for all this info and the really interesting links about the Bolaven Plateau.

I’ll take a close look at them. I enjoy hiking, but with age and a minor circulation issue in one leg, I have to take it easy: carrying my backpack all day is no longer an option. Without a bag, and if the elevation gain isn’t too steep, I can still manage... :-) I’ll read through those links carefully...

I really liked the Vat Phou site in Champasak, though—I went there in the morning and found a special atmosphere. I didn’t visit the island across from it, though, so that’ll be a great opportunity for a bike ride!

@Songsam: You’re right, I misjudged the number of days for "Laos 2"—your schedule seems more realistic. I’ll adjust based on the info Djalma shared. And no, I don’t plan to go back to the western part of the country, partly because if the borders are closed, it’d force a U-turn. Plus, I’ve already been to Siem Reap/Angkor twice...

Here I am again after some long reflection and looking over the entire route for this trip: Actually, I’m a bit stuck because I have to leave Cambodia by plane from Phnom Penh and end up in BKK, so I’ve revised my itinerary: I’m moving all of Ratchaburi & Uthai Thani to the return in Thailand (after Laos and Cambodia). I’ll leave BKK heading to Isan, and as a result, I’ll have time to go to Khong Chiam, which saves me from paying for the Cambodian visa twice—it was a bit silly. The Savannakhet-Paksé route is a 4-hour bus ride, which should be fine. I’ve also dropped the idea of Attapeu based on Djalma’s advice.

Here’s what it looks like now:

Thailand 1 Ayutthaya (3 nights) - Pakchong (2 nights) - Phimai (3 nights) - Roi Et (3 nights) - Ubon Ratchathani (2 nights) - Khong Chiam (3 nights) - Nakhon Phanom (2 nights)

=> Question: Is it possible to go from Khong Chiam to Nakhon Phanom in one day?

Total TH1: 18 nights - Remaining: 55 nights

Laos I’ve decided not to do the motorbike "loops" (Thakhek & Bolaven), but instead to take transport to specific spots (Konglor and Tad Lo, respectively) and spend a few days there. It’s more relaxed, especially since I’ve already seen Tad Fan, Tad Yuang, Tad Champi, and Tad Itou, the waterfalls closest to Paksé.

Thakhek (2 nights) - Konglor (5 nights) - Thakhek (1 night) - Savannakhet (2 nights) - Paksé (2 nights) - Tad Lo (5 nights) - Paksé (1 night) - Champassak (2 nights) - Don Khon (3 nights)

Total LAOS: 23 nights - Remaining: 32 nights

Departure from Don Khon, cross the border, then Stoeng Treng (80 km) and Kratie (150 km). => Should be doable in a day, to be confirmed.

Cambodia I’ll head south fairly quickly, since I already know this entire area (I’ll pass through again with pleasure, but won’t linger).

Kratie (2 nights) - Kampong Cham (2 nights) - Phnom Penh (1 night) - Kep (4 nights)

Total CAMB: 9 nights Remaining: 23 nights

Return to Phnom Penh by bus (4-hour trip, arriving at noon), then flight to Bangkok. => Should be doable in a day, to be confirmed.

Thailand 2

Bangkok (1 night) - Kanchanaburi (3 nights) - Thong Pha Phum (2 nights) - Sangkhlaburi (4 nights) - Kanchanaburi (1 night) - Uthai Thani (3 nights) - Return to Bangkok (1 night?)

9 nights left: - Spend a week around Ban Phe (across from Ko Samet). I met some French travelers who raved about this quiet, authentic little spot—and it’s not too far from Bangkok. - Return to BKK for the last 2 or 3 days.

Ayutthaya (3 nights) - Pakchong (2 nights) - Phimai (3 nights) - Roi Et (3 nights) - Ubon Ratchathani (2 nights) - Khong Chiam (3 nights) - Nakhon Phanom (2 nights)

=> Question: Is it possible to go from Khong Chiam to Nakhon Phanom in one day?

From Phimai, you go up... then down... then up again. I think Phimai-Ubon R.-Khong Chiam-Roi Et-Nakhon Phanom would make more sense, reduce the number of kilometers, and your question wouldn’t even come up. The trip from K. Chiam to Roi Et via Ubon could be done in the same day if you leave early.

Cambodia I’m heading pretty quickly to the south, since I already know that whole area (I’ll pass through again with pleasure, but won’t linger)

Kratie (2 nights) - Kampong Cham (2 nights) - Phnom Penh (1 night) - Kep (4 nights)

Total CAMB: 9 nights

So, in short, you’re going to Cambodia just for Kep? Hmm...

Uthai Thani (3 nights) - Return to Bangkok (1 night?) (...) - Spend a week around Ban Phe

Minivans on routes 10 and 903 will take you from Uthai Thani to Mo Chit Minivan Terminal B, and from Terminal C, the 915 to (Ban) Laem Mae Phim* makes a stop in Ban Phe. I don’t know the frequency of these minivans. Plan for 7-8 hours of travel total, plus transfer time. Avoiding an overnight in Bangkok seems doable.

* Small seaside resort (which I don’t know) about twenty kilometers east of Ban Phe.

Thanks for your reply, Songsam.

Okay for the Phimai-Ubon R.-Khong Chiam-Roi Et-Nakhon Phanom route—if it’s more logical and shorter, that’s perfect!

About Cambodia, I know it seems short, but that’s because I’ve been there before (I did the Northeast loop two years ago, and Angkor twice already), and the closed land border complicates the original idea of doing a loop. I would’ve liked to go through the north of the country toward the west and Thailand (or along the Tonle Sap), but that’s off the table now... Still, I can extend it a bit depending on how I feel, like stopping in Stung Treng. I’ll see if I’m ahead of schedule or not, especially since the last 9 days can be shortened by a few days too. And I really like the Cambodian vibe, even if it’s only for about ten days! ;-) Kep is because last time, Kampot kind of annoyed me, and during a day in Kep, I chatted with a really nice French guy who goes there every winter and raved about how peaceful Kep is compared to Kampot’s liveliness. That’s why I thought I’d spend a few quiet days there.

Thanks for the info on doing the Uthai Thani-Ban Phe route in one day—it’ll be better than stopping in BKK. Actually, the French people I met in Ko Chang spend part of the winter between Ban Phe and Laem Mae Phim. They’re around Hua Lhaem Beach... The whole area seems nice, so it should be a great way to end the trip!

I’ll think about all this some more, but overall, it’s shaping up well, and I wouldn’t have gotten this far without all your advice. Thanks a million! :)

Just a post to share the itinerary in map form (I did this by hand, so the route lines are approximate).

In the end, I moved Kanchanaburi to the beginning—it doesn’t really change anything. Here’s what it looks like, roughly: - one month in Thailand (31 days) - 3 weeks in Laos (23 days) - 2 short weeks in Cambodia (12 days) - 5 days around Ban Phe - 2 days in Bangkok

PS: You can see that the detour to Khong Chiam... is a real detour! 😎