😠
Je viens de revisiter le palais de la Bahia, de Marrakech, et je suis frappée par l'état de décrépitude avancée de ce site.
De nouvelles salles fermées aux visites, des fontaines cassées, des zelliges qui se descellent, des fissures aux murs ...
Les deux palais du fond font peine à voir.
Quand l'état marocain prendra t'il conscience que son patrimoine est en train ainsi de se détruire ?
On a tous les matériaux sur place, une main d'oeuvre qui a gardé le savoir faire, alors qu'attend on pour débuter cette restauration ?
C'est honteux de laisser ainsi se dégrader un si bel endroit !!!
Le Palais de la Bahia, le fleuron de Marrakech ...
mais en mars j'ai aussi été frappée par le mauvais état de ce si beau palais.
et ce malgré son intérêt très "touristique", tourisme encouragé par le royaume.
pareil pour le palais Batha à Fez ! "musée" très pauvre, restauration du palais incomplète, jardins à l'abandon... quel dommage; pourtant, très beau !
pourtant certaines restaurations se sont faites, très belles.
Dans peu de temps , cela ressemblera au Palais El Badi ??? ou à Volubilis 😉😉😉😉
C'est un problème grave sur tout le Maroc, Telouet est une merveille qu'il faut se dépécher de visiter , par exemple.
Le Maroc a choisi d'attirer les touristes avec des golfs et de palaces... c'est un choix!
Heureusemant qu'il y a parfois quelques mécènes et quelques initiatives privées (Cf musée de Marrakech, Dar si Said, ..)
Je l'ai visité en Octobre 2007, je me viens du sol qui était dégradé mais il me semble qu'on avait accès aux fontaines.
Bref, c'est triste de voir ça ... Que les golfeurs et la jet-set investissent Marrakech je veux bien mais je comprends pas pourquoi le patrimoine culturel soit autant délaissé.
Surtout pour une aussi belle ville 😕 ...
Bonjour,
" .. Que les golfeurs et la jet-set investissent Marrakech je veux bien mais je comprends pas pourquoi le patrimoine culturel soit autant délaissé.
Surtout pour une aussi belle ville ... "
Qu'est-ce que les golfeurs et la jet set viennent faire la dedans ??
On ne va pas encore désigner les touristes comme les pires responsables des dégradations du temps dont les Marocains ne veulent pas s'occuper..
S'il ne s'agissait que de la Bahia, ce serait, si j'ose dire, le moindre mal.
Mais il s'agit, hélas, d'un état de fait que l'on retrouve partout . Les Marocains ne s'occupent guère de leur passé et encore moins que de leur ( riche ) patrimoine.
Cela ne pourra changer que si les mentalités changent.
L'entretien n'est ici qu'un mot et cela est valable aussi bien pour les véhicules, les maisons, les hôtels , les jardins , etc...etc...
Donc, il faudra encore patienter quelques longues décennies...Inch'Allah !!
Voici 2 images faites dans le petit oued qui traverse la médersa Bou Inania de Fès. Celle-ci a été restaurée pendant quelques année ( par une Japonaise, maître d'œuvre..)
Aujourd'hui, on commence a y rencontrer quelques problèmes d'entretien.
Je crois que tu as mal compris le message, je ne pointe pas les golfeurs encore moins les touristes de quelques origines que ce soit comme responsable.
Je disais ça dans le sens que Marrakech cible une clientèle de plus en plus riche et qui trouvent facilement son compte pour y faire ses activités, en dépit du maintien du patrimoine culturel du maroc.
Mais je n'ai pas désigné les touristes comme responsable, loin de là ... Il y a un ministère du tourisme marocain pour ça.
Je comprends bien. Il faut dire que , pour certains, la vieille habitude de trouver toujours un responsable est assez tenace sur le site.
Je voulais seulement donner mon petit coup de g..... quand au problème soulevé par Localo pour la Bahia.
Problème récurent au Maroc et dont, hélas, on est pas prêt d'en voir la fin.
😠
Je viens de revisiter le palais de la Bahia, de Marrakech, et je suis frappée par l'état de décrépitude avancée de ce site.
De nouvelles salles fermées aux visites, des fontaines cassées, des zelliges qui se descellent, des fissures aux murs ...
Les deux palais du fond font peine à voir.
Quand l'état marocain prendra t'il conscience que son patrimoine est en train ainsi de se détruire ?
On a tous les matériaux sur place, une main d'oeuvre qui a gardé le savoir faire, alors qu'attend on pour débuter cette restauration ?
C'est honteux de laisser ainsi se dégrader un si bel endroit !!!
Le Palais de la Bahia, le fleuron de Marrakech ...
quel beau coup de gueule, Lacalette,
tu touches du doigt la contradiction de ce Maroc, royaume au XIV ième siècle de l'Hégire, riche d'un étonnant patrimoine..."c'est l'Orient à 2 heures 30 d'avion de l'Europe" et qui a choisi de faire du tourisme de masse une des ressources principales de son économie...
Souviens-toi que les journaux économiques marocains tablaient sur le I0.000.000 ième touriste annuel avant la crise des subprimes...il ne faut pas s'étonner de voir l'état de délabrement de ce palais quand on constate journellement l'affluence des visiteurs "encadrés" dans ce palais...
Bien sûr, une gestion intelligente devrait consacrer l'essentiel des taxes des billets d'entrée à tes préoccupations: l'entretien des mosaïques et des zelliges...
Quant aux golfeurs et aux hôtels de luxe, c'est un autre problème...
Les hôtels de luxe, dont on constate la prolifération et l'inauguration d'un nouveau cinq étoiles tous les deux mois, sont des purs produits de notre XXI ième siècle...à ne pas confondre avec le Palais de la Bahia...
Sur la gestion du patrimoine...doit-on avoir une vision houellebecquienne de cette gestion et transformer le Maroc en un Disneyland ou en Un Parc Astérix? ce qui fait le bonheur de l'oeil dans ta belle ville, c'est l'explosion de la vie avec ses débordements(collectif des eaux usées qui déborde...) ballet des mobylettes surchargées, convoi d'ânes et de mulets dans des venelles improbables....
trop de goudron et trop de feu-rouge...et la médina devient Guéliz...
le délabrement procède d'Hubert Robert et des préraphaélites, et çà donne parfois de très beaux clichés ou tableaux...
Bien sûr, une gestion intelligente devrait consacrer l'essentiel des taxes des billets d'entrée à tes préoccupations: l'entretien des mosaïques et des zelliges...
Salam Tomas,
Le prix d'entrée est de 10 dh ( 90 centimes d'euros ...)
Ils l'augmenteraient à 30 dh, comme pour la médersa, ça ne dissuaderait personne d'y aller : c'est un des incontournables de cette ville.
En période touristique basse actuelle, il y avait au moins 5 groupes qui visitaient, je ne sais pas combien d'entrées quotidiennes peut avoir un tel musée, mais ça doit largement dépasser les 2000 !
L'attribution intégrale des recettes à la rénovation pourrait déjà constituer la base du financement.
Mais je dois être bien naïve, ça ne doit pas fonctionner comma cela ...
Et puis le problème principal n'est probablement pas financier mais bien au niveau de la prise de conscience de l'impératif de sauvegarder ce patrimoine !
Tomas, joli tableau que tu nous donnes, mais je te ferais remarquer que de sa terrasse de Tanger, la belle contemple, non pas des ruines, mais bien la vraie vie ...😉
une médina avec ses belles maisons et son minaret !
Le prix d'entrée est de 10 dh ( 90 centimes d'euros ...)
Ils l'augmenteraient à 30 dh, comme pour la médersa, ça ne dissuaderait personne d'y aller : c'est un des incontournables de cette ville.
salam Lacalette,
il y a aussi la solution du mécénat ou de la fondation...je pense à la Medersa Ben Youssef ou à la Mosquée de la venelle djerb ben Salah...Les royaumes moyen-orientaux ont montré souvent, comme à La Grande Mosquée de Casablanca qu'ils avaient les moyens de financer de beaux projets de construction ou de restauration...
Augmenter le prix d'entrée aurait pour effet de pénaliser le marrakchi, dont le pouvoir d'achat n'a rien à voir avec celui des "groupes encadrés"...
il serait préférable de voir plus de scolaires ou de lycéens locaux apprendre leur patrimoine...et puis les amoureux ne pourraient plus profiter de l'ombre des jardins et de la fraîcheur des zelliges...
il y a aussi la solution du mécénat ou de la fondation...je pense à la Medersa Ben Youssef ou à la Mosquée de la venelle djerb ben Salah.
Tout à fait d'accord, je pense que le problème, surtout pour un établissement comme celui là, n'est pas de trouver les fonds, mais bien de motivation ou de prise de conscience.
J'aurais pu parler à ce propos, effectivement de la très belle initiative de la restauration de la médersa Ben Salah, du 17è siècle, initiative de Français malheureux de voir cet établissement dans un tel état.
Cette réhabilitation a bien avancé, l'extérieur est terminé.
C'est encore le grand chantier à l'intérieur.
Elle est destinée à devenir un centre culturel.
Beau projet... et qui, lui, se réalise !
http://www.medersa-bensaleh.org/Medersa%20Ben%20Saleh%20Projet%202009%20v1.pdf
J'ai visité le palais Bahia en mars 2010, j'ai trouvé ce palais magnifique et il est vraiment dommage
de le laisser se dégrader, certaines parties sont inaccessible car tres abimées.....
J'aurais pu parler à ce propos, effectivement de la très belle initiative de la restauration de la médersa Ben Salah, du 17è siècle, initiative de Français malheureux de voir cet établissement dans un tel état.
rel.
salam Lacalette,
quand on lit attentivement l'imposant document dont tu cites le lien, on s'apercoit que le responsable de cette initiative a passé son enfance dans le quartier...et qu'il a les deux nationalités, francaise et marocaine...
que d'énergie dépensée pour la réhabilitation de ce bel endroit!
I’m heading back to Egypt for the first time in 30 years this July. Last time, I was 20, and we spent two weeks traveling on a shoestring as backpackers.
I’m wondering about a "cruise" on a felucca from Aswan—mainly to avoid being stuck in an air-conditioned tourist bubble (we’re already spending our first week in that setting with our diving club). We’d like to explore the most interesting stretch of the Nile between Aswan and Luxor. Do you have any thoughts on this option, tips, or maybe some contacts?
Hello, my husband and I will be in Egypt this coming November. Cairo seems more challenging to explore without a guide, and we’ll be there for 3 full days. Would anyone have the name of a guide?
Thanks!
Hi, we're looking for a guide to show us around Essaouira.
We're 11 adults and don't want to go through an agency. If you have a contact to help us discover this city, that would be great!
Thanks
I was wondering if it’s possible to join a group as a solo traveler with local agencies in Djanet for circuits like Tadrart, Essendilene, Sefar, or Tassili?
If you have any agencies to recommend, I’d love to hear about them.
I didn’t find any info on the forum.
Best,
Here’s a first draft for a 14-night itinerary during the Christmas break with two teens. We’re especially fond of hiking (nothing too extreme, though), which is why we’re drawn to the south.
- Marrakech (2 nights)
- Aït Ben Haddou (1 night)
- Dadès (3 nights, though we’re thinking of doing a day trip to the Todra Gorge on one of those days)
- M'hamid (1 night)
- Erg Chigaga (1 night)
- 4 nights to slot in
- Marrakech (2 nights)
Okay, I realize this involves a lot of driving, and we’re still debating the return route since we’d like to avoid the Tichka Pass in January, but going through Taroudant seems like it would add *a lot* of time. 😕
If you’ve got other suggestions for an itinerary with great hikes, I’m all ears!
Also, the 4 nights total in MRK isn’t really our preference, but since we’re arriving/departing super early from overseas, we’d like to be a bit rested before the long flight.
Another question:
For hikes (aside from the desert one), is it better to have a guide with us, or are the trails well-marked?
Hi everyone,
Our trip to Morocco will be from November 3 to 17, in the High Atlas.
Basically, our route would be:
Marrakech - Aït Benhaddou
Skoura - Tinghir - Merzouga
Merzouga via the N12 to Zagora
Zagora - Draa Valley - Marrakech
It seems to be the low season, so I’d love to travel without having to book accommodations in advance. In other countries, pre-booking has restricted us and kept us from visiting unplanned sites. Freedom is important to us, but I’d also like to avoid arriving somewhere and finding nothing available.
What do you recommend? Book ahead or not?
Your advice is always helpful, and thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me.
Roberto
First of all: a big thank you to everyone whose insightful, funny, lively, and exotic posts we’ve enjoyed. It’s a joy to find such lovely writers on this forum, who’ve given me tons of ideas and addresses to prepare our trip.
Our plan: to explore Morocco from November 2nd to December 4th. We’ll have our own vehicle (a 2011 Renault Grand Scenic, in great condition), shipped with us from Sète to Tanger Med. Returning from Nador.
Our profile: 75 and 62 years young, so old but happy to be, in very good health. Seasoned travelers—it’s practically our whole life. Lovers of beautiful landscapes, historic sites, fine craftsmanship, and road trips. This will be my 3rd trip to Morocco, but the first two were 20 and 17 years ago. I’ve never been north of the Essaouira-Marrakech line (though I’ve gone further south). As for my husband, a lifelong expat including in Muslim countries, it’s his first time in Morocco.
He’s the one driving. He’s very experienced, cautious, not necessarily fast, but used to driving in all conditions (and countries, including the most creative on the road). But I don’t want to tire him out, and he no longer drives at night (and we’ll be there in November).
I’ve decided to show him a bit of everything by taking a road trip along beautiful backroads, with daily distances averaging 180-200 km (except on highways, which will be rare), regularly broken up by rest days. I’m counting on a speed of 40-50 km/h, plus stops/visits along the way.
Since I’ve read so many posts, I’ve narrowed it down to some very specific questions.
1) Coming directly from Rabat via the highway, we’d prefer to skip Marrakech*. Still, we’ll need to sleep somewhere nearby. We’ll head toward Skoura the next day. Does anyone have a well-located address for this route, possibly east of Marrakech? Ideally, we’re looking for a small town, easy parking, clean accommodation (minimum) with average comfort (or better if available), a bit heated, and if possible, pretty and/or nice—but above all, a place to sleep well, wash with lukewarm (ideally hot) water, and have a decent dinner.
(*Explanation for the "no-go" in Marrakech: it’s a shame, because there are truly beautiful things in this city, but I think the vibe won’t suit us—it’s an understatement for "it’ll put us off" / "make us flee" / "traumatize us." Not because it’s too crowded and we want to stand out from tourists (we’re part of them), but because of forced henna on your hand, or spending 10 minutes every quarter-hour saying "no thank you" to a "guide" who’s as much a guide as I am a trapeze artist. Knowing us, it’ll wear us down. The country is vast and beautiful, and our time too short to waste our memories just days after arriving. And I don’t want to ruin things for my peaceful husband, or he’ll demand we turn back—and Sète in November isn’t exactly thrilling either.)
2) Which route to Skoura (in 2 days)? I see two options: either via the Tichka Pass, with a night in Telouet before reaching Skoura, or via the R307/N23 from Demnate, with a night near Megdaz before descending to Skoura. So: Tichka Pass or R307/N23? I have a slight (big) preference for the second option, even though I know the other route is very beautiful too. Of course, before deciding, we’ll check the weather and the current state of the R307/N23—does anyone know where to get info on the road conditions? But even assuming the road is "passable," is it a bit too tough in itself? In short, is it reasonable? If a kind soul could share their experience, a thousand thanks in advance.
That’s all I’ve written for now. I’ll save the other questions for later posts. Thanks again to those who had the patience to read this and to those who can respond. Happy Sunday to all!
I’m just a few days away from my trip to Marrakech—I’m leaving from November 13th to 20th and bringing my parents along! I’d love to plan my stay as best as I can, and I’m sure the forum crew can help. So, here are my questions:
- Where’s the best place to exchange money without getting ripped off? The owner of the riad where we’re staying told us to avoid doing it at the airport because it’s really expensive and to do it in the medina instead, near Jemaa el-Fna square.
- Which traditional hammams do you recommend that are reasonably priced? How much should we budget for one? That’ll help me plan my expenses.
- What are some nice restaurants in the medina?
- I’d also like to know roughly how much to expect for a tea, a meal, a taxi, a djellaba, and babouches. I don’t want to get overcharged and would like to know what to expect.
- What are the must-do activities and places to visit?
Hi, I’d like to head to Morocco next week with my car. I’ve looked online at all the different info about the ferry crossing to Tangier, but I’m finding it really expensive. Is there a way to buy tickets in Spain? Or another way to get the Algeciras–Tangier crossing cheaper? Thanks for any tips or info!
We found a guide who offers the trip from M'hamid to a camp (departure at 3 PM, tea, meal, camel ride, overnight stay, breakfast, and return to M'Hamid by 11 AM the next day via the sacred oasis). He quoted us a price of 380 € for April.
What do you think of this rate?
This might sound like a silly question, but is it common to negotiate the price for this kind of thing (we're booking from France)? It’s still a big part of our travel budget.
Hi there,
We're planning to visit Egypt between January 25 and February 15, 2027. I looked up the Ramadan dates and found some sites saying it starts on February 8, while others say February 18... Where's the mistake?
Thanks,
Christian
Hi there,
We’re a family of 4 with two boys aged 12 and 10 traveling to Egypt in February.
We’re spending 3 days in Cairo to take our time exploring the city and the sites before heading south.
-Is it necessary to have a guide to visit the GEM? Are audio guides available?
-Do you have any contacts for drivers to organize a few transfers (Giza, Saqqara, Airport)?
-Do you know a French-speaking guide who’s friendly, family-friendly, and good at making things exciting, with reasonable prices?
With our two teens, we’re heading to Morocco for two weeks at the end of December and beginning of January. It’ll be our first trip that’s more "off the beaten path," even though we’ve visited several countries before. Given the overwhelming amount of info, I’m feeling a bit swamped with the prep this trip requires, and I’ll admit I’m a little lost when it comes to figuring out what’s realistic to visit in two weeks 😕 So, all your tips, personal experiences, and suggestions are more than welcome!
- Which places should we prioritize during this time of year? (I’ve read that some spots are less accessible in winter?)
- What’s the best way to get around? (rental car, train, private transport, buses, etc.? — just a heads-up, we’ll have a few suitcases!)
- In terms of "safety," are there any areas to avoid?
- Any recommendations for reliable local tour companies (beyond the big names like "Get Your Guide") that offer excursions or private transport to help us explore the country?
- A doable 2-week itinerary that lets us enjoy the country’s diversity without having to change accommodations every two days?
I’m planning a trip to the High Atlas in Morocco and have a few questions for you:
- Why do so many people recommend avoiding international agencies for car rentals? Can anyone explain why?
- Is Booking.com reliable, and has anyone rented a vehicle through their service? There’s a pretty big price difference compared to local Moroccan agencies.
- Is there a detailed road map included in the rental car?
- Is Google Maps enough to get around the High Atlas? This will be my first trip there.
Thanks so much to anyone who can help with this destination I’ve been dreaming about for years.
Have a great evening,
Roberto
hi there, I’m heading to Tunisia 🙂 from April 27 to May 8 with my family. I’ve read through the various discussions about the country, but I’m still a bit unsure🤪: for currency exchange, I saw on the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs website that withdrawing currency with a bank card from ATMs is limited to 200 TND per week. There are four of us traveling by car, so that might be a bit tight! And it’s a hassle to carry a lot of cash, even if I’m not being paranoid! What do you all recommend?
Cheers,
Laurent.
We're planning a 2-week trip in late February/early March for a road trip in the High Atlas with a rental car, and we'd love to avoid booking our accommodations in advance. Is that doable, easily manageable, or risky (are accommodations available, expensive, or not great)? Thanks for your tips!
Annie
Hi,
This autumn, we’re planning to explore the Oriental region and we’re wondering where the best place to land would be. We’ll have three weeks ahead of us and we’ll be renting a car.
Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Is there an official website or list of certified Egyptologist guides in Egypt? And most importantly, what are the normal prices for a full day or half day? There’s so much scamming and crazy pricing—depending on who you contact, it can range from simple to quadruple!!!!
Thanks
Hello,
In September, my wife and I, along with another couple, will be traveling to Tunisia and staying at the Sheherasade Hotel near Sousse.
We’d love to hear your recommendations or tips on places to visit, as well as advice on taxis or other transportation options.
Thanks in advance!
This autumn’s trip should be in Morocco—barring any geopolitical issues between now and then.
After many trips to the south of Fès, I’m giving the north a try.
My plan is roughly to do a road trip loop from Rabat back to Rabat, passing through Asilah, Tangier, Tétouan, Chefchaouen, Akchour, Fès, Meknès, and Volubilis.
That’s a lot of cities.
Probably a bit too many for our taste—we usually prefer more isolated spots...
So I’m looking for tips on little backroads, secluded beaches, half-day hikes, and offbeat places.
If you’ve also got recommendations for accommodation... (We’re open to splurging over 100 € if it’s a real favorite.)
Feel free to think outside the box—this is an open-ended plan! !😉
Hello,
I’m looking for testimonials from Pieds-Noirs who have recently returned to Algeria.
There can’t be many left after 65 years of the country’s independence.
I’m planning to go back myself soon to reconnect with my roots... before I pass away...
I’ve started making a few pre-bookings for hotels and apartments to rent in Algiers. At first, I received friendly and welcoming responses. Then, when I mentioned I wanted to stay for two or three weeks—maybe even a month—explaining that my trip wouldn’t be strictly touristy but more of a pilgrimage to the places of my childhood, and that it would likely be a very emotional journey, I expected a positive and warm reaction to my approach. Instead, I suddenly stopped getting replies from the three or four people I’d contacted. So now I’m wondering about the reception former Pieds-Noirs can expect...
Anyone here who can share their experience of returning? I specified “recently” because it seems that right now, diplomatic relations between the two governments are extremely tense, not to say hostile... even if Macron claims otherwise...
Hello,
I’m traveling to Algeria from October 27 to November 16, 2026.
I’d love to hear from anyone who’s been through the process about the accommodation attestation required for the visa application:
- Does it need to cover the entire duration of the trip?
- Is this document mandatory for a hotel to rent a room?
- Is it checked during inspections?
- Is a hotel booking (e.g., via Booking.com) sufficient for the visa?
- If so, does it need to be paid in advance?
I plan to visit several cities and do one or more treks with a guide or agency.
If you have any contacts you’d recommend, I’d be grateful!
Also, I’d love to share this trip with a companion who’s already done some traveling.
We’d organize the journey together, of course.
Thanks for your feedback!
Safe travels to all,
Dom, Dijon, 64 years old
I’m leaving for Tunisia in five weeks for a full 15-day trip. I’ll be arriving in Monastir and departing from there as well.
I’d like to do a route that’s a bit different from my first stay, which was more focused on cities and culture (Tunis, Sousse, Kairouan, El Jem).
I’ll be getting around by public transport.
I’d like to head south toward Tozeur, and I saw that you can take a *louage* from Monastir to Sbeitla (2h30). I imagine it’s not too complicated to get to Tozeur from there afterward? The issue is the return trip to Monastir and safety in Sbeitla.
If this route seems too complicated, I might opt for Djerba instead, which looks simpler.
I’m heading to Morocco in September 2026, and part of my trip takes me through Merzouga. I’m looking for a 4x4 driver-guide to explore the area with my partner and me.