D'après un livre, les man se référaient à la légende du chien Pan Hou ; or, la seule légende de chien que je connaisse est celle des hmong. La légende raconte que l'empereur de Chine ayant promis sa fille et la moitíe de ses terres à qui lui apporterait la tete de son plus mortel ennemi, le chien Pan Hou a relevé le défi et épousé la fille, dont les enfants sont les Man. Comme il ne voulait pas donner la moitíe de son royaume à un chien, l'empereur a eu l'idée de le diviser en deux horizontalement et de donner les cimes au chien.
Man: de quelle minorité s'agit-il?
by Larsay
This discussion is in French, the community’s main language.
Original post
Dans tous les livres sur la guerre d'Indochine, on parle de la minorité des MAN. Hors, aucun livre sur les minorités ne mentionne ce nom, et aucune info sur Internet; Comme les Tho du nord-est, elle a du changer de nom. Vous savez de quelle minorité il s'agissait (pas des hmong, car les livres disent "méo et man") ?
D'après un livre, les man se référaient à la légende du chien Pan Hou ; or, la seule légende de chien que je connaisse est celle des hmong. La légende raconte que l'empereur de Chine ayant promis sa fille et la moitíe de ses terres à qui lui apporterait la tete de son plus mortel ennemi, le chien Pan Hou a relevé le défi et épousé la fille, dont les enfants sont les Man. Comme il ne voulait pas donner la moitíe de son royaume à un chien, l'empereur a eu l'idée de le diviser en deux horizontalement et de donner les cimes au chien.
D'après un livre, les man se référaient à la légende du chien Pan Hou ; or, la seule légende de chien que je connaisse est celle des hmong. La légende raconte que l'empereur de Chine ayant promis sa fille et la moitíe de ses terres à qui lui apporterait la tete de son plus mortel ennemi, le chien Pan Hou a relevé le défi et épousé la fille, dont les enfants sont les Man. Comme il ne voulait pas donner la moitíe de son royaume à un chien, l'empereur a eu l'idée de le diviser en deux horizontalement et de donner les cimes au chien.
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Bonjour Larsay,
Il semble que ce soient les YAOS (appelés Man effectivement pendant la période coloniale). Si tu tapes "yao" sur Internet, tu trouveras les deux noms...
Il semble que ce soient les YAOS (appelés Man effectivement pendant la période coloniale). Si tu tapes "yao" sur Internet, tu trouveras les deux noms...
Eh bien voilà ! Merci. C'est bien ce que je pensais car les livres parlent d'une "minorité vivant à mi-pente , proche des Thai/Tay". Ceci dit, je ne comprends pas cette référence au chien Pan Hou, typiquement hmong, à moins que l'auteur du livre se soit trompé
C'est bizarre, ces minorités qui changent de nom après la guerre d'Indochine ! Ce n'est pas pour faire oublier qu'elles combattaient le Viet-minh avec nous, vu qu'elles étaient plutot coté Viet-minh (en fait, les Thos de Cao Bang ont été parmi les premiers soldats de Giap)
C'est bizarre, ces minorités qui changent de nom après la guerre d'Indochine ! Ce n'est pas pour faire oublier qu'elles combattaient le Viet-minh avec nous, vu qu'elles étaient plutot coté Viet-minh (en fait, les Thos de Cao Bang ont été parmi les premiers soldats de Giap)
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
C'est terrible; on écrit quelque chose et il faut toujours qu'il y ait un parasite qui se réveille ! Créer un compte juste pour pondre ça, c'est vraiment aimer perdre son temps ! Connaitre le Nord ne veut pas dire qu'on connait TOUS le noms de chaque minorité, ; vous les connaisez tous, vous ? AUCUN vietnamien n'a été capable de me dire qui ils étaient (comme ils étaient incapables de me dire qui étaient actuellement les Thos, et ce qu'était le choum (vous connaissez ?). Vous n'avez rien de mieux à pondre, par example de bonnes informations. Fafa Fabien ... et autres pseudonymes ?
Vous en oubliez, mon cher ! Dao, Yao, Man, Trai, Dong, Diu Mien, Kim Mien, Mun, Kiù PLUS une vingtaine de sous-groupes : Dao Lo Gang, Dao Do, Dao Tien, Dao Lien Tien, Dao Quang Chet, Dao Ao Dai, Dao Dai Ban, Dao Cac Ngang, Dao Coc Mun, Dao Tam Dao, Dao Quang Tran, etc.. Vous qui etes si fort, vous savez les différencier ? En fait, d'après le musée d'Ethnologie, le nom officiel est Yao, pas Dao
Vous en oubliez, mon cher ! Dao, Yao, Man, Trai, Dong, Diu Mien, Kim Mien, Mun, Kiù PLUS une vingtaine de sous-groupes : Dao Lo Gang, Dao Do, Dao Tien, Dao Lien Tien, Dao Quang Chet, Dao Ao Dai, Dao Dai Ban, Dao Cac Ngang, Dao Coc Mun, Dao Tam Dao, Dao Quang Tran, etc.. Vous qui etes si fort, vous savez les différencier ? En fait, d'après le musée d'Ethnologie, le nom officiel est Yao, pas Dao
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Les Mien (Yao) et les Hmong (Miao) partagent de nombreuses caractéristiques et se retrouvent classées dans le même grand groupe linguistique Hmong - Dao, mais, ce sont deux ethnies bien distinctes et ils se marient rarement entre eux
Les groupes Yao se donnent pour ancêtre le chien Panhu aux poils multicolores qui reçut en récompense la fille de l’empereur mythique Gao Xin. Leurs six garçons et six filles se marièrent et engendrèrent les Yao
Les langues des Yao font partie de la famille Mien cousine de celle des H Mong Il y a plusieurs langues différentes parlées par l’ethnie Yao, dont le Lu Mien qui concerne 70% de la population Yao , c'est à ce groupe actif (lu mien) qu'est rattaché la légende du chien. Yoa de langue Lu Mien (deux groupes): - Man Ta Pan, , Quang Chet, Dai Ban, Yao rouges, Man Coc, Du Lai, Coc Ngang, Quê Lam, Coc Mun, Lô Gang - Man Tieu Ban
Bibbliogaraphie : Montagnards des pays d’Indochine - Collections du musée de l'homme - Mme Christine Hemmet.
Des tribus Yao sont installées au Vietnam, au Laos et en Thaïlande bien avant la colonisation. Ils ont donc été confrontés aux guerres régionales aussi bien française qu’américaine.
Je ne rattacherai donc pas précisément l'ethnie recherchée par Jacques au Man Ta Pan mais bien à une ethnie Yao parlant Lu Mien.
Bien à vous Asia
Les groupes Yao se donnent pour ancêtre le chien Panhu aux poils multicolores qui reçut en récompense la fille de l’empereur mythique Gao Xin. Leurs six garçons et six filles se marièrent et engendrèrent les Yao
Les langues des Yao font partie de la famille Mien cousine de celle des H Mong Il y a plusieurs langues différentes parlées par l’ethnie Yao, dont le Lu Mien qui concerne 70% de la population Yao , c'est à ce groupe actif (lu mien) qu'est rattaché la légende du chien. Yoa de langue Lu Mien (deux groupes): - Man Ta Pan, , Quang Chet, Dai Ban, Yao rouges, Man Coc, Du Lai, Coc Ngang, Quê Lam, Coc Mun, Lô Gang - Man Tieu Ban
Bibbliogaraphie : Montagnards des pays d’Indochine - Collections du musée de l'homme - Mme Christine Hemmet.
Des tribus Yao sont installées au Vietnam, au Laos et en Thaïlande bien avant la colonisation. Ils ont donc été confrontés aux guerres régionales aussi bien française qu’américaine.
Je ne rattacherai donc pas précisément l'ethnie recherchée par Jacques au Man Ta Pan mais bien à une ethnie Yao parlant Lu Mien.
Bien à vous Asia
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Je ne sais meme pas pourquoi j'ai posé la question, car j'avais la réponse dans un papier que j'ai écrit sur les Yao mais que je n'ai jamais mis sur ce forum contrairement à celui sur les Hmong
Noms ethniques et histoire :
En ce qui concerne les différents clans, c’est très “touffu” ! Tout d’abord, cette minorité est officiellement appelée yao ; ensuite, elle s’appelle Man, Kim Mun, Mun, et autres. Ensuite, il y a une multitude de clans et sous-clans, une vingtaine en tout : Dao Quan Trang (Dao à pantalon blanc), Dao Quan Chet (Dao à pantalon serré), Dao Tien (Dao à pièces de monnaie), Dao Thanh Y (Dao à robe bleue), Dao Do (Dao à – turban - rouge), Dao Coq Ngang, Doa Coc Mun, Man, Dong, Trai, Xa, Diu Mien, Lim Mien, Kiem Mien, Lu Giang, Lan Ten, Dai Ban, Tieu Ban, Col Ngang, Col Mua and Son Dau, j’en passe et des meilleurs ! Selon d’anciens documents, il y a avait au départ 12 clans, le plus ancien étant les Ban. Il semble que leurs origines datent de 2000 ans (dynastie chinoise des Qin 221-207 av. J.-C.) et qu’ils étaient alors installés dans la province chinoise du Hunan. Poussé par les Han, ils ont ensuite migré vers le sud de la Chine, dans les provinces du Fujian, Guangdong et Guangxi, et ont émigré au nord du Vietnam entre le 18e et la fin du 19e (mais d’autres ouvrages parlent du 12e, ce qui m’étonnerait). Ils se sont installés dans toutes les montagnes du nord le long de la frontière chinoise, entre Sapa et Cao Bang/Langson, ainsi qu’autour du lac Babe et de Tuyen Quang. Leur langue est du hmong-dao et, contrairement aux hmongs, ils ont depuis très longtemps une écriture, à caractères chinois. Chaque famille a un petit cahier de famille très intéressant, incluant des diagrammes et dessins. Il existe également des livres expliquant l’origine du paradis, de la Terre, des rivìeres et des torrents, du peuple Dao ; des règles de conduite, d’amour et la vie en couple ; la façon d’élever les enfants, de faire du bien et d’éviter le mal ; de la musique et des chants de travail ; critique des paresseux et des mauvaises habitudes et louanges au gros travailleurs, etc., Habitat Les Yao vivent en petits villages ou hameaux de quelques maisons, dans des habitats variés allant de maisons sur pilotis jusqu’à de très grandes maisons en planches ; les premières sont plus fréquentes dans les régions où ils habitent près de rizières, généralement cultivées par les Tay ; au niveau inférieur, des panneaux en bambou ou en bois sont placés entre les piliers soutenant la maison pour créer des espaces destinés à abriter les animaux et à stocker des outils agricoles, du bois, etc. Le niveau supérieur comprend 3 à 5 pièces où vivent les différents membres d’une même famille. Certaines maisons comprennent en outre un grenier ou des annexes. Les grandes maisons de plain-pied ont la préférence en pleine montagne, les annexes étant partie prenante de la très grande pièce principale. Chose caractéristique et pratiquement unique chez les minorités : chaque maison a un autel des ancêtres dans la pièce principale.
Familles
Les dao vivent en régime patriarcal monogame. En général, les Yao se marient exclusivement entre eux. Les jeunes hommes comme les jeunes filles sont laissés libres de choisir leur partenaire. Ils flirtent lors des fêtes, des assemblées ou pendant la morte-saison agricole, en partant se promener d’un village à l’autre. Quand deux personnes tombent amoureuses, elles se donnent un objet en souvenir de leur rencontre. Le jeune homme demande aux parents de la jeune fille de vivre et travailler chez eux pendant 3 ou 4 jours, après quoi il retourne chez ses parents pour préparer le mariage ; il doit donner des cadeaux à ses futurs beaux-parents ; s’il ne peut pas, le mariage se fait tout de meme, mais est « temporaire », jusqu’à ce qu’il paye. Une dao enceinte doit obéir à de nombreux tabous et abstinences car elle est considérée comme porteuse d’un mauvais sort.
Costumes
Les femmes se rasent les sourcils et le devant du crane, le reste des cheveux étant réuni en chignon. Les hommes portent un pantalon généralement teint en indigo et une courte veste. Le costume des femmes se compose d’une robe longue ouverte sur la poitrine, couverte par un blouse ; sur les épaules, les dao Rouges brodent le symbole de Ban Vuong, leur ancêtre mythique, et les dao Tien y cousent 7 à 9 pièces de monnaie ; coiffe encore plus variée, allant d’un très gros turban rouge vif (Dao Rouges) à un simple fichu et à une coiffe très compliquée consistant en un mince et long ruban de tissu blanc disposé en zigzag sur la tête et de deux baguettes transversales (on se demande comment cela tient !) ; elles portent également des bandes molletières … Nombreux bijoux en argent et cuivre : anneaux, bracelets, colliers, boucles d’oreille, etc. Bref, il faut une heure pour s’habiller !!!!
Activités
Les dao sont d’excellents cultivateurs et éleveurs, la culture principale étant le maïs, suivi par le riz. Les femmes sont de grandes brodeuses.
Fêtes
La fête de Panwang est la plus importante de toutes les fêtes Yao. Elle commémore la lutte des ancêtres des Yao contre l’oppression que leurs faisaient subir des seigneurs héréditaires. Elle est aussi l’occasion pour les Yao de rendre grâce à leur dieu pour avoir fait se réaliser leurs rêves. Cette fête a lieu le 16 du dixième mois selon le calendrier Yao, tous les trois ou cinq ans. Dans certaines régions, cette fête n’est célébrée que tous les douze ans. La fréquence de la fête dépend de divers facteurs, liés aux traditions de diverses branches du peuple Yao : la qualité de la récolte, l’état de santé des membres de la communauté et celui du bétail… Il n’est pas rare que plusieurs familles, voire tout le village, se réunissent pour la célébrer. La fête comprend un rituel bien précis, au cours duquel un maître de cérémonie s’emploie à distraire la divinité en priant et en chantant pour elle, tandis que les villageois exécutent la « danse des longs tambours » pour demander protection à la divinité.
La fête de Danu tombe le 29e jour du cinquième mois lunaire. Dans le langage Miao, Danu signifie « ne jamais oublier ». Cette fête commémorerait l'anniversaire de la naissance de Zuniang, une ancêtre du peuple Yao. Elle est d’ailleurs parfois appelée la fête de Zuniang.
Un jour, Zuniang, qui était jadis nommée Miluotuo par les Yao, dit à la troisième de ses filles de se rendre dans la montagne pour y récupérer ses terres. Pour l’aider dans son entreprise, elle lui donna un tambour en bronze. Au moyen de ce tambour, la jeune fille parvint à effrayer les oiseaux et à faire une bonne récolte. La troisième fille de Zuniang se maria par la suite avec un Yao de cette région, avec qui elle vécut heureuse dans les montagnes. Ils prospérèrent et eurent de nombreux descendants, les ancêtres des Yao. C’est donc pour rendre hommage à Zuniang que les Yao fêtent encore son anniversaire le jour de la fête de Danu.
Le jour de la fête de Danu, les Yao nettoient leurs maisons et les rues de leur village. Puis ils font offrandes à Zuniang (du vin, du riz, des gâteaux de riz gluant, du poulet, du mouton, etc.). Les jeunes du village, garçons et filles, se rassemblent et tapent sur un grand tambour, symbolisant le tambour de bronze que Zuniang donna à sa fille selon la légende. Tous prient Zuniang de leur accorder une bonne récolte, ainsi qu’une vie heureuse et prospère, à eux comme à leur bétail. Ils rendent ensuite hommage à Zuniang en entonnant, accompagnés par des musiciens, les traditionnels « chants de Miluotuo » et en exécutant des danses.
Noms ethniques et histoire :
En ce qui concerne les différents clans, c’est très “touffu” ! Tout d’abord, cette minorité est officiellement appelée yao ; ensuite, elle s’appelle Man, Kim Mun, Mun, et autres. Ensuite, il y a une multitude de clans et sous-clans, une vingtaine en tout : Dao Quan Trang (Dao à pantalon blanc), Dao Quan Chet (Dao à pantalon serré), Dao Tien (Dao à pièces de monnaie), Dao Thanh Y (Dao à robe bleue), Dao Do (Dao à – turban - rouge), Dao Coq Ngang, Doa Coc Mun, Man, Dong, Trai, Xa, Diu Mien, Lim Mien, Kiem Mien, Lu Giang, Lan Ten, Dai Ban, Tieu Ban, Col Ngang, Col Mua and Son Dau, j’en passe et des meilleurs ! Selon d’anciens documents, il y a avait au départ 12 clans, le plus ancien étant les Ban. Il semble que leurs origines datent de 2000 ans (dynastie chinoise des Qin 221-207 av. J.-C.) et qu’ils étaient alors installés dans la province chinoise du Hunan. Poussé par les Han, ils ont ensuite migré vers le sud de la Chine, dans les provinces du Fujian, Guangdong et Guangxi, et ont émigré au nord du Vietnam entre le 18e et la fin du 19e (mais d’autres ouvrages parlent du 12e, ce qui m’étonnerait). Ils se sont installés dans toutes les montagnes du nord le long de la frontière chinoise, entre Sapa et Cao Bang/Langson, ainsi qu’autour du lac Babe et de Tuyen Quang. Leur langue est du hmong-dao et, contrairement aux hmongs, ils ont depuis très longtemps une écriture, à caractères chinois. Chaque famille a un petit cahier de famille très intéressant, incluant des diagrammes et dessins. Il existe également des livres expliquant l’origine du paradis, de la Terre, des rivìeres et des torrents, du peuple Dao ; des règles de conduite, d’amour et la vie en couple ; la façon d’élever les enfants, de faire du bien et d’éviter le mal ; de la musique et des chants de travail ; critique des paresseux et des mauvaises habitudes et louanges au gros travailleurs, etc., Habitat Les Yao vivent en petits villages ou hameaux de quelques maisons, dans des habitats variés allant de maisons sur pilotis jusqu’à de très grandes maisons en planches ; les premières sont plus fréquentes dans les régions où ils habitent près de rizières, généralement cultivées par les Tay ; au niveau inférieur, des panneaux en bambou ou en bois sont placés entre les piliers soutenant la maison pour créer des espaces destinés à abriter les animaux et à stocker des outils agricoles, du bois, etc. Le niveau supérieur comprend 3 à 5 pièces où vivent les différents membres d’une même famille. Certaines maisons comprennent en outre un grenier ou des annexes. Les grandes maisons de plain-pied ont la préférence en pleine montagne, les annexes étant partie prenante de la très grande pièce principale. Chose caractéristique et pratiquement unique chez les minorités : chaque maison a un autel des ancêtres dans la pièce principale.
Familles
Les dao vivent en régime patriarcal monogame. En général, les Yao se marient exclusivement entre eux. Les jeunes hommes comme les jeunes filles sont laissés libres de choisir leur partenaire. Ils flirtent lors des fêtes, des assemblées ou pendant la morte-saison agricole, en partant se promener d’un village à l’autre. Quand deux personnes tombent amoureuses, elles se donnent un objet en souvenir de leur rencontre. Le jeune homme demande aux parents de la jeune fille de vivre et travailler chez eux pendant 3 ou 4 jours, après quoi il retourne chez ses parents pour préparer le mariage ; il doit donner des cadeaux à ses futurs beaux-parents ; s’il ne peut pas, le mariage se fait tout de meme, mais est « temporaire », jusqu’à ce qu’il paye. Une dao enceinte doit obéir à de nombreux tabous et abstinences car elle est considérée comme porteuse d’un mauvais sort.
Costumes
Les femmes se rasent les sourcils et le devant du crane, le reste des cheveux étant réuni en chignon. Les hommes portent un pantalon généralement teint en indigo et une courte veste. Le costume des femmes se compose d’une robe longue ouverte sur la poitrine, couverte par un blouse ; sur les épaules, les dao Rouges brodent le symbole de Ban Vuong, leur ancêtre mythique, et les dao Tien y cousent 7 à 9 pièces de monnaie ; coiffe encore plus variée, allant d’un très gros turban rouge vif (Dao Rouges) à un simple fichu et à une coiffe très compliquée consistant en un mince et long ruban de tissu blanc disposé en zigzag sur la tête et de deux baguettes transversales (on se demande comment cela tient !) ; elles portent également des bandes molletières … Nombreux bijoux en argent et cuivre : anneaux, bracelets, colliers, boucles d’oreille, etc. Bref, il faut une heure pour s’habiller !!!!
Activités
Les dao sont d’excellents cultivateurs et éleveurs, la culture principale étant le maïs, suivi par le riz. Les femmes sont de grandes brodeuses.
Fêtes
La fête de Panwang est la plus importante de toutes les fêtes Yao. Elle commémore la lutte des ancêtres des Yao contre l’oppression que leurs faisaient subir des seigneurs héréditaires. Elle est aussi l’occasion pour les Yao de rendre grâce à leur dieu pour avoir fait se réaliser leurs rêves. Cette fête a lieu le 16 du dixième mois selon le calendrier Yao, tous les trois ou cinq ans. Dans certaines régions, cette fête n’est célébrée que tous les douze ans. La fréquence de la fête dépend de divers facteurs, liés aux traditions de diverses branches du peuple Yao : la qualité de la récolte, l’état de santé des membres de la communauté et celui du bétail… Il n’est pas rare que plusieurs familles, voire tout le village, se réunissent pour la célébrer. La fête comprend un rituel bien précis, au cours duquel un maître de cérémonie s’emploie à distraire la divinité en priant et en chantant pour elle, tandis que les villageois exécutent la « danse des longs tambours » pour demander protection à la divinité.
La fête de Danu tombe le 29e jour du cinquième mois lunaire. Dans le langage Miao, Danu signifie « ne jamais oublier ». Cette fête commémorerait l'anniversaire de la naissance de Zuniang, une ancêtre du peuple Yao. Elle est d’ailleurs parfois appelée la fête de Zuniang.
Un jour, Zuniang, qui était jadis nommée Miluotuo par les Yao, dit à la troisième de ses filles de se rendre dans la montagne pour y récupérer ses terres. Pour l’aider dans son entreprise, elle lui donna un tambour en bronze. Au moyen de ce tambour, la jeune fille parvint à effrayer les oiseaux et à faire une bonne récolte. La troisième fille de Zuniang se maria par la suite avec un Yao de cette région, avec qui elle vécut heureuse dans les montagnes. Ils prospérèrent et eurent de nombreux descendants, les ancêtres des Yao. C’est donc pour rendre hommage à Zuniang que les Yao fêtent encore son anniversaire le jour de la fête de Danu.
Le jour de la fête de Danu, les Yao nettoient leurs maisons et les rues de leur village. Puis ils font offrandes à Zuniang (du vin, du riz, des gâteaux de riz gluant, du poulet, du mouton, etc.). Les jeunes du village, garçons et filles, se rassemblent et tapent sur un grand tambour, symbolisant le tambour de bronze que Zuniang donna à sa fille selon la légende. Tous prient Zuniang de leur accorder une bonne récolte, ainsi qu’une vie heureuse et prospère, à eux comme à leur bétail. Ils rendent ensuite hommage à Zuniang en entonnant, accompagnés par des musiciens, les traditionnels « chants de Miluotuo » et en exécutant des danses.
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Pour nos lecteurs, vous, je pense que vous savez😉
les Thos Groupe Viet Muong, provinces Nghé et Thanh Hoa
Le Choum Alcool de riz produit en Chine, au Cambodge et au Viêt Nam, connu pour pouvoir être l'un des plus fort du monde (80° pour certains producteurs). Il en existe de très nombreuses variétés, pouvant être parfumé au gingembre (Pu chiew), aux fleurs de lotus (Ruou seu), aux fleurs de chrisanthèmes (Ruou cuc), à l'acore (Xuon bo), au lychee, à l'orange, à la rose… Une variété très spéciale (Ruou Tiêt Dê) est composé de 3/4 d'alcool et d'1/4 de sang de chêvre et de bouc… Famille : Eaux de vie de céréales & plantes Alcool : 50° à 80°
les Thos Groupe Viet Muong, provinces Nghé et Thanh Hoa
Le Choum Alcool de riz produit en Chine, au Cambodge et au Viêt Nam, connu pour pouvoir être l'un des plus fort du monde (80° pour certains producteurs). Il en existe de très nombreuses variétés, pouvant être parfumé au gingembre (Pu chiew), aux fleurs de lotus (Ruou seu), aux fleurs de chrisanthèmes (Ruou cuc), à l'acore (Xuon bo), au lychee, à l'orange, à la rose… Une variété très spéciale (Ruou Tiêt Dê) est composé de 3/4 d'alcool et d'1/4 de sang de chêvre et de bouc… Famille : Eaux de vie de céréales & plantes Alcool : 50° à 80°
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Bonjour,
Merci Jacques et Fabienne, je suis toujours très intéressée par toute l'histoire des minorités qui est assez complexe.
Bonne journée
Michèle
Michèle
http://mjm-nosvoyages.blogspot.fr/ Ethopie 2020-Birmanie 2017-New York 2015-Sicile 2015-Ouest américain 2015/16/17/18/19 - Madrid/Barcelone - Cinq Terre 2017-Prague 2018-Venise 2019
http://surlarouteasiatique.blogspot.fr/ 2014 : périple de 9 mois Cambodge, Laos, Vietnam et ouest Américain
les Thos
Groupe Viet Muong, provinces Nghé et Thanh Hoa
Je ne crois pas. Tous les livres sur la guerre d'Indochine situent les Tho au nord-est, entre Lang Son et Cao Bang. De plus, dans le génial livre du Lieutenant-colonel Maurice Abadie (il date de 1924 ; il faut voir toutes les photos d'époque !), Les races du Haut-Tonkin de Phong To à Langson, il écrit : "L'appelation sino-annamite de "Tho" (terre, sol, terroir, autochtone) est appliquée aux tribus Thai de la région de Cao Bang, de la vallée de la rivìere Claire et du Song Chay. Les tribus similaires des bassins du haut Song Chay, du fleuve Rouge et de la rivìere Noire ne sont plus désignées sous le nom de "Tho", mais de Thai. Il résulte de ce qui précède que les appellations de Tho et de Thai ne s'appliquent pas à des groupements ethniques différents, mais à des tribus de meme origine et ayant les memes caractères essentiels, mais qui ont reçu à des degrés divers l'influence du peuple souverain (lire "les Viet")
Je ne crois pas. Tous les livres sur la guerre d'Indochine situent les Tho au nord-est, entre Lang Son et Cao Bang. De plus, dans le génial livre du Lieutenant-colonel Maurice Abadie (il date de 1924 ; il faut voir toutes les photos d'époque !), Les races du Haut-Tonkin de Phong To à Langson, il écrit : "L'appelation sino-annamite de "Tho" (terre, sol, terroir, autochtone) est appliquée aux tribus Thai de la région de Cao Bang, de la vallée de la rivìere Claire et du Song Chay. Les tribus similaires des bassins du haut Song Chay, du fleuve Rouge et de la rivìere Noire ne sont plus désignées sous le nom de "Tho", mais de Thai. Il résulte de ce qui précède que les appellations de Tho et de Thai ne s'appliquent pas à des groupements ethniques différents, mais à des tribus de meme origine et ayant les memes caractères essentiels, mais qui ont reçu à des degrés divers l'influence du peuple souverain (lire "les Viet")
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Les Mang Quang Trang de langue Moun sont entrés au Vietnam dès le XIII siècle, ils venaient du Fujian, sont passés par Quang An avant de s'établir du côté de Lang Son, Cao Bang, Thai Nguyen et enfin Tuyen Quang, certains d'entres eux, les Yao Ho iront jusqu'à Yen Bai et Lao Cai.
Les Man Quan Chet de langue Mien arrivent au XV siècle, on les trouve aujourd'hui à Vinh Phu, Ha Son Binh Hoang Lien Son et Ha Tuyen
Les Manh Tay Hi du Guangdong de langue Moun arriveront à la fin du XVII à Dong Ha pour s'établir Tuyen Quang, Une partie ira Yen Bai et Lao Cai
Les Yao Dien , Man Do et Man Tien Mien, aujourd'hui du côte de Cao Bang Bac Thay, Ha Tuyen sont venus de Gangdong et Guangxi à la fin du XVIII
Les derniers arrivés fin du XIX et début XX sont les Mang Lo Dong ou Man Son Dau. Pour ces derniers je n'ai pas de précisions linguistiques ou géographiques....
Les Man Quan Chet de langue Mien arrivent au XV siècle, on les trouve aujourd'hui à Vinh Phu, Ha Son Binh Hoang Lien Son et Ha Tuyen
Les Manh Tay Hi du Guangdong de langue Moun arriveront à la fin du XVII à Dong Ha pour s'établir Tuyen Quang, Une partie ira Yen Bai et Lao Cai
Les Yao Dien , Man Do et Man Tien Mien, aujourd'hui du côte de Cao Bang Bac Thay, Ha Tuyen sont venus de Gangdong et Guangxi à la fin du XVIII
Les derniers arrivés fin du XIX et début XX sont les Mang Lo Dong ou Man Son Dau. Pour ces derniers je n'ai pas de précisions linguistiques ou géographiques....
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
En effet et pour faire simple et en citant en partie l'ethnologue Dong Ngiem Van:
"si la dénomination Thos est retenue pour toutes les populations de langue Viet Muong de la provinces de Nghe An cette appellation sert aussi à désigner certains groupes Tay du Vietbac.."
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Mais, on est pas en compétition, juste complémentaires😉.
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Et donc, merci à vous deux, car j'avoue y perdre mon latin malgré de nombreux jours passés dans les montagnes chaque année. Même en demandant aux intéressés à quelle ethnie ils appartiennent, on a des réponses contradictoires. Souvent ils ne connaissent pas, eux-mêmesleurs origines au-delà de 2 ou 3 générations.
Dans la famille d'une petite fille que nous avons faite opérer, à Si Ma Cai, ils ont adopté habillements et rites des H'Mong Fleur, alors que ce sont des H'Mong Blanc, ceci pour se fondre dans l'ethnie majoritaire de la région. Allez vous y retrouver, après!
C'est pourquoi, il faut se mettre à plusieurs pour (à peu près) tout savoir........................😛
Olivier Sapa a chez lui un énorme livre sur les Yao (sa femme en est une) écrit par un grand expert ; j'ai commencé à le lire mais c'est tellement complexe que j'ai fini par abandonner ; rien que innombrables photos des différents costumes des clans et sous-clans donnent le tournis
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
En effet c'est très complexe mais si passionnant!!
Je rajouterai au message précédant un complément. Les Yao de langue Moun ou Mun (souvent classifié en tant que sous groupe de la langue mien??) 2 groupes - Quang Trang (pantalon blancs) comprend aussi les Ho - Lantien ou Lanten (bleu indigo) comprenant aussi les Thanh Y, les Tuyen...ils sont arrivés ils y a environ 200 ans...
La maison Yao -Dao construite au musée ethnographique de Hanoï appartient à cette lignée😉
Je rajouterai au message précédant un complément. Les Yao de langue Moun ou Mun (souvent classifié en tant que sous groupe de la langue mien??) 2 groupes - Quang Trang (pantalon blancs) comprend aussi les Ho - Lantien ou Lanten (bleu indigo) comprenant aussi les Thanh Y, les Tuyen...ils sont arrivés ils y a environ 200 ans...
La maison Yao -Dao construite au musée ethnographique de Hanoï appartient à cette lignée😉
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
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More discussions
Bonjour, qui serait sur place en ce moment à Flores? d apres des sites internet, tout serait fermé, la situation serait difficile ; notre guide dirait que ça va ; qui croire? nous sommes censés partir le 2 septembre ; merci à celles et ceux qui sont à Flores en ce moment
Hello,
We’re a family of four with two teens aged 16 and 18. We’re heading to Thailand this summer. We’ll arrive in Bangkok and plan to take a flight to Luang Prabang.
I’ve seen there are some great visits and excursions to do (temples, markets, waterfalls) and maybe even venture a bit north to places like Nong Khiaw, Muang Xay, Muang Ngoy, or Oudom Xay.
But I’ve also heard about the Bokeo region with the Gibbon Experience.
Since we won’t be able to do everything, I’d love to hear about your experiences, impressions, and advice on the two options I’m considering, especially since we’ll be meeting family in Chiang Mai, Thailand, afterward.
Option 1: A loop from Luang Prabang heading slightly north, then a flight from Luang Prabang to Chiang Mai.
Option 2: A few days in Luang Prabang, exploring within a few dozen kilometers around, then heading to Bokeo province for the 2-day/1-night Gibbon Experience. For this option, I saw on Rome2Rio that it’s possible to book a ferry trip on the Mekong from Luang Prabang to Huay Xay—they mention about 8 hours. But is that realistic? What type of boat is it? Then, to get to Chiang Mai, there aren’t many options—bus or minivan—but how does crossing the border work?
Finally, for those of you who’ve been to Laos in August, what was the weather like? We’ve already visited Thailand, Vietnam, and Cambodia during the same period over the past four years and weren’t really bothered by bad weather.
Thanks for your feedback! Best regards, Aurélien
Option 1: A loop from Luang Prabang heading slightly north, then a flight from Luang Prabang to Chiang Mai.
Option 2: A few days in Luang Prabang, exploring within a few dozen kilometers around, then heading to Bokeo province for the 2-day/1-night Gibbon Experience. For this option, I saw on Rome2Rio that it’s possible to book a ferry trip on the Mekong from Luang Prabang to Huay Xay—they mention about 8 hours. But is that realistic? What type of boat is it? Then, to get to Chiang Mai, there aren’t many options—bus or minivan—but how does crossing the border work?
Finally, for those of you who’ve been to Laos in August, what was the weather like? We’ve already visited Thailand, Vietnam, and Cambodia during the same period over the past four years and weren’t really bothered by bad weather.
Thanks for your feedback! Best regards, Aurélien
I’m starting a discussion about guides in the Mekong Delta because we’ve just finished our trip in this region and had a hard time finding a French-speaking guide. We had Thanh—she speaks French really well and travels all over the delta region, including Ho Chi Minh City. She’s super friendly and flexible. I recommend her wholeheartedly. If it can help someone...
Feel free to contact us for her number.
Hi everyone,
I couldn’t find any recent info on Kuching.
Can anyone recommend a hotel or guesthouse for under 100 RM that’s nice and affordable? No dorms, please.
Also, does it rain a lot in November, and is it still worth visiting Semenggoh or Bako?
Hi there,
We’ll be arriving in Phnom Penh this coming January and we’re thinking of starting our trip with a stop in Kampong Cham, then Kratie.
After Kratie, we’re considering heading toward Siem Reap with a stop in Kampong Thom.
That said, I’m not really sure how long the Kratie–Kampong Thom journey might take or how complicated it is.
Does this stop on the way to Siem Reap seem like a good idea to you? If we don’t visit the Sambor Prei Kuk site, are there still any walks or sights worth checking out in Kampong Thom?
Thanks in advance for your help.
We’ll be arriving in Phnom Penh this coming January and we’re thinking of starting our trip with a stop in Kampong Cham, then Kratie.
After Kratie, we’re considering heading toward Siem Reap with a stop in Kampong Thom.
That said, I’m not really sure how long the Kratie–Kampong Thom journey might take or how complicated it is.
Does this stop on the way to Siem Reap seem like a good idea to you? If we don’t visit the Sambor Prei Kuk site, are there still any walks or sights worth checking out in Kampong Thom?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Hey everyone,
Silly question—backpack or hard-shell suitcase for the Sepilok, Kinabatangan, Tioman, KL trip? I’m struggling to fit all my son’s and my stuff into the 70L backpack... and I’m thinking a suitcase would be easier, but I’m not sure if it’ll work for getting around.
Thanks! 🙂
Silly question—backpack or hard-shell suitcase for the Sepilok, Kinabatangan, Tioman, KL trip? I’m struggling to fit all my son’s and my stuff into the 70L backpack... and I’m thinking a suitcase would be easier, but I’m not sure if it’ll work for getting around.
Thanks! 🙂
Hi there,
I didn’t plan to return to Thailand this year, but my health conditions mean it’ll be the best place for me to stay between two trips to India. The tourism setup there is so well-organized that it’s the most "comfortable" country for a short visit. Thailand feels too sanitized for my taste, and there’s too much religion, Buddha, and the King, but it’s still the best option given how my health has been evolving. I’d considered two weeks in ThaTon for hiking, but I got too sick from the burn-offs during my trips to the mountains around Chiang Rai. So I’m not sure where to go this year. Definitely not the sea, touristy spots, or the mountains with burn-offs...
Thanks, friends, if you’ve got any suggestions.
Thanks, friends, if you’ve got any suggestions.
Hi everyone,
After a stay on Koh Phayam this coming November, I’d like to spend 2 or 3 days on Koh Phra Thong before heading further south.
Do you think it’s doable to leave Koh Phayam early enough to catch the 10 AM boat from Khura Buri to Koh Phra Thong? The next one isn’t until 4 PM, which would cost me a whole day.
Thanks
After a stay on Koh Phayam this coming November, I’d like to spend 2 or 3 days on Koh Phra Thong before heading further south.
Do you think it’s doable to leave Koh Phayam early enough to catch the 10 AM boat from Khura Buri to Koh Phra Thong? The next one isn’t until 4 PM, which would cost me a whole day.
Thanks
Hi,
I’m planning a trip to Indonesia, specifically Sulawesi and Java, in September for 10 days. I don’t know this part of the world at all—any advice is welcome! I’ll be traveling solo and would also love tips on meeting other travelers or locals.
Thanks
I’m planning a trip to Indonesia, specifically Sulawesi and Java, in September for 10 days. I don’t know this part of the world at all—any advice is welcome! I’ll be traveling solo and would also love tips on meeting other travelers or locals.
Thanks
Hello everyone,
Not long ago, I used to travel as a couple, but my husband has since passed away, and I’ve decided to set off again. The trip I took to Cambodia in January 2025 did me a world of good.
I’m now considering Thailand, a destination we never included in our plans because even 15 years ago, people said it was too touristy. Still, I’m thinking about the itinerary below, but I don’t feel up to arranging buses, trains, or guides on my own while I’m there. I’m looking for one or more drivers and have been in touch with an agency, but their offers are just copy-paste group tours that I don’t want.
So, if you have any contacts, experiences, or advice, I’d be so grateful if you’d share them with me. Here’s my rough plan:
Arrival in Bangkok
Ayutthaya (2 nights)
Kanchanaburi (2 or 3 nights)
Sangkhlaburi/Sai Yok (3 nights)
Sukhothai (2 nights)
Lampang (I’ve planned 3 nights, but that might be a bit much—it depends on what time I arrive in the city)
Chiang Mai
Chiang Dao
Pai
Chiang Rai
I was thinking about the Mae Hong Son loop—thoughts?
What do you think about staying overnight at the Golden Triangle?
When I look online, of course, I can find agencies that organize tours to national parks, etc.
I’m retired but in great physical shape. I’d rather go hiking than sit in hot springs with crowds of tourists who’ve all arranged meet-ups. I don’t want to spend a day at an elephant camp, and I don’t want to visit Karen villages.
I’d love to hear your advice.
Thank you all,
Hi,
On September 1st, we're heading to Kalimantan for six weeks, probably from Pontianak to the Derawan Islands.
I've scoured this site, which is usually my go-to 😉, and others like VoyageForum, but recent info is pretty scarce.
I'd love any tips on places you've visited—our itinerary is still a work in progress.
We're two couples traveling with backpacks, using buses, boats, guesthouses, and homestays.
Thanks in advance!
Hi everyone,
Could you share your thoughts on my 3-week itinerary?
We’re a small group (family + friends) of 12 people, planning to leave around January 21, 2027.
Here’s my itinerary:
3 nights in Bangkok
4 nights in Chiang Mai
3 nights on Koh Samui
3 nights on Koh Phangan
4 nights in Krabi
4 nights in Phuket
I’m also open to any great tips you might have...
Thanks, everyone! Alain.
Hi,
From Malacca to get to Jerantut, is it better to go back to KL and take a bus from there, or take a bus to Tampin and then a train? Any feedback on the "Jungle Train"? (duration, price, comfort, etc.). Thanks
Hi there,
We’re planning a 3-week family trip next summer with our three kids, who’ll be 8, 8, and 7 years old.
After some research, we’re leaning toward Malaysia to combine nature/forests and paradise beaches. The idea is to introduce our kids to the country’s culture, nature, and wildlife.
We want a great trip but without splurging on luxury options like high-end lodges and resorts. We’re looking for comfort with a touch of authenticity—basically, a good middle ground.
I’ve started putting together an itinerary and would love your expert advice and tips to help us build this amazing trip with our little ones.
Day 1: Departure from France
Day 2: Kuala Lumpur Stay at a hotel near the airport or KL Sentral. Just one night.
Day 3: Morning flight to Sandakan (Borneo). Stay in Sepilok
Day 4: Sepilok: * Orangutan Center * Malayan Sun Bear Center * Rainforest Discovery Centre
Day 5: Depart for Kinabatangan. Boat safari in the late afternoon.
Day 6: Sunrise safari. Jungle walk. Evening safari.
Day 7: Final safari. Return to Sandakan.
Flight to Kuala Lumpur, then to Kota Bharu (or overnight transit depending on schedules).
Day 8: Transfer to the port. Boat to the Perhentian Islands.
Days 9 to 13: Perhentian Besar 5 full days. * Snorkeling * Hiking * Turtle watching * Wild beaches * Relaxation
Day 14: Return to the mainland. Bus or private car to Taman Negara.
Days 15 and 16: Taman Negara.
Day 17: Return to Kuala Lumpur.
Day 18: Visit the Petronas Towers or Batu Caves
Day 19: Free day.
Day 20: Return flight.
Thanks in advance, everyone!
Baptiste
After some research, we’re leaning toward Malaysia to combine nature/forests and paradise beaches. The idea is to introduce our kids to the country’s culture, nature, and wildlife.
We want a great trip but without splurging on luxury options like high-end lodges and resorts. We’re looking for comfort with a touch of authenticity—basically, a good middle ground.
I’ve started putting together an itinerary and would love your expert advice and tips to help us build this amazing trip with our little ones.
Day 1: Departure from France
Day 2: Kuala Lumpur Stay at a hotel near the airport or KL Sentral. Just one night.
Day 3: Morning flight to Sandakan (Borneo). Stay in Sepilok
Day 4: Sepilok: * Orangutan Center * Malayan Sun Bear Center * Rainforest Discovery Centre
Day 5: Depart for Kinabatangan. Boat safari in the late afternoon.
Day 6: Sunrise safari. Jungle walk. Evening safari.
Day 7: Final safari. Return to Sandakan.
Flight to Kuala Lumpur, then to Kota Bharu (or overnight transit depending on schedules).
Day 8: Transfer to the port. Boat to the Perhentian Islands.
Days 9 to 13: Perhentian Besar 5 full days. * Snorkeling * Hiking * Turtle watching * Wild beaches * Relaxation
Day 14: Return to the mainland. Bus or private car to Taman Negara.
Days 15 and 16: Taman Negara.
Day 17: Return to Kuala Lumpur.
Day 18: Visit the Petronas Towers or Batu Caves
Day 19: Free day.
Day 20: Return flight.
Thanks in advance, everyone!
Baptiste
Hi there,
I’m planning a family trip (my wife and I, both 47, and our two sons, aged 5 and 12) to Malaysia for the last week of June and the first two weeks of July 2027.
We used to love road trips as a couple, then as a trio, but since our second child arrived, we’ve taken a break with "camping village" style trips.
Now feels like the right time to get back to our old habits, while adjusting the pace for the kids.
We’re craving Asia. We’ve been lucky enough to visit Thailand, Indonesia (Bali and Lombok), and Sri Lanka before.
Friends have raved about Malaysia, so we’re definitely tempted.
For those who know and love Malaysia, what would be a good itinerary starting from Kuala Lumpur, with a maximum of 3-4 stops? We’d like a mix of culture, nature, and relaxation (just to clarify, we’re not big beach fans). All of this without rushing, of course.
Thanks in advance for your tips!
For those who know and love Malaysia, what would be a good itinerary starting from Kuala Lumpur, with a maximum of 3-4 stops? We’d like a mix of culture, nature, and relaxation (just to clarify, we’re not big beach fans). All of this without rushing, of course.
Thanks in advance for your tips!
Hi everyone,
We’re heading to Flores and then Bali at the end of September.
We’ve already visited both but this time, once we’re in Labuan Bajo, we’d like to take a boat to the Komodo Islands to see the famous Komodo dragons.
I don’t want to sleep on the boat—just a day trip would be perfect.
Does anyone know a reliable and friendly provider to recommend?
Thanks in advance, and have a great summer!
Time to hit the road again!
Summer seems to be the best time weather-wise for Bali. And since summer’s when we can take a long trip, let’s go for Bali... even though we know it’ll be *packed* with people! So we’ll steer clear of the island’s south...
Our current plan (19 days on the ground, 7 stops): - 4 Nights (3 days) in Ubud 2 days for rice terraces / activities (Tegallalang, Campuhan Ridge, Monkey Forest, Bird Park, coffee plantation, market (?), dance "pestacle," cooking class and/or spa) 1 day with a driver for the Temples (Pura Gunung Kawi, Tirta Empul Spring, Pura Mengening, Goa Gajah...) - 2 nights in Sidemen (1 day for Pura Kehen + Batur Caldera + Pura Besakih and 1 day to relax in the rice terraces) - 3 nights on Gili Meno (Rest and beaches) from Padangbai - 2 nights in Amed (1 day from Padangbai with the Abang rice terrace and Tirta Gangga baths, and the next day a boat tour in Amed) - 4 nights in Pemuteran (1 day for transfer and rest, 1 day to visit Kawah Ijen, and 2 days of snorkeling at Menjangan Island) - 2 nights in Munduk (1 day with the Dayang rice terrace and the 3-waterfall hike, 1 day at Pura Ulun Danu Bratan) - 2 nights in Jatiluwih (1 day in the rice terraces, and on the last day, we’ll stop by Pura Taman Ayun in Mengwi and Pura Tanah Lot before catching our red-eye flight).
Accommodations in homestays or hotels. Transportation to be arranged on-site with the lodgings (?) Boat to Gili Meno to book in advance (?) Kawah Ijen excursion to plan ahead (?)—check with the homestay (?)
Thanks for your thoughts/comments to help us explore this destination...
Summer seems to be the best time weather-wise for Bali. And since summer’s when we can take a long trip, let’s go for Bali... even though we know it’ll be *packed* with people! So we’ll steer clear of the island’s south...
Our current plan (19 days on the ground, 7 stops): - 4 Nights (3 days) in Ubud 2 days for rice terraces / activities (Tegallalang, Campuhan Ridge, Monkey Forest, Bird Park, coffee plantation, market (?), dance "pestacle," cooking class and/or spa) 1 day with a driver for the Temples (Pura Gunung Kawi, Tirta Empul Spring, Pura Mengening, Goa Gajah...) - 2 nights in Sidemen (1 day for Pura Kehen + Batur Caldera + Pura Besakih and 1 day to relax in the rice terraces) - 3 nights on Gili Meno (Rest and beaches) from Padangbai - 2 nights in Amed (1 day from Padangbai with the Abang rice terrace and Tirta Gangga baths, and the next day a boat tour in Amed) - 4 nights in Pemuteran (1 day for transfer and rest, 1 day to visit Kawah Ijen, and 2 days of snorkeling at Menjangan Island) - 2 nights in Munduk (1 day with the Dayang rice terrace and the 3-waterfall hike, 1 day at Pura Ulun Danu Bratan) - 2 nights in Jatiluwih (1 day in the rice terraces, and on the last day, we’ll stop by Pura Taman Ayun in Mengwi and Pura Tanah Lot before catching our red-eye flight).
Accommodations in homestays or hotels. Transportation to be arranged on-site with the lodgings (?) Boat to Gili Meno to book in advance (?) Kawah Ijen excursion to plan ahead (?)—check with the homestay (?)
Thanks for your thoughts/comments to help us explore this destination...
Hello,
After reading and researching, we're planning the following stops in Cambodia in January 2027: - Phnom Penh - Kampong Cham - Kratie - Siem Reap - Battambang - Kampot (round trip)
I'm wondering about the direction of these stops, which could also influence our international flights. Either a round trip from Phnom Penh in the order above. Or landing in Siem Reap with the following order:
- Battambang (round trip) - Siem Reap / Angkor - Kratie - Kampong Cham - Phnom Penh - Kampot (round trip)
This second option would save us the Battambang - PP - Kampot trip but means doing a round trip to Battambang from Siem Reap and placing the "highlight of the trip" (Angkor) at the beginning of our stay.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Have a great Sunday
After reading and researching, we're planning the following stops in Cambodia in January 2027: - Phnom Penh - Kampong Cham - Kratie - Siem Reap - Battambang - Kampot (round trip)
I'm wondering about the direction of these stops, which could also influence our international flights. Either a round trip from Phnom Penh in the order above. Or landing in Siem Reap with the following order:
- Battambang (round trip) - Siem Reap / Angkor - Kratie - Kampong Cham - Phnom Penh - Kampot (round trip)
This second option would save us the Battambang - PP - Kampot trip but means doing a round trip to Battambang from Siem Reap and placing the "highlight of the trip" (Angkor) at the beginning of our stay.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Have a great Sunday
Hi there,
We’ll be arriving in Phnom Penh this coming January and we’re thinking of starting our trip with a stop in Kampong Cham, then Kratie.
After Kratie, we’re considering heading toward Siem Reap with a stop in Kampong Thom.
However, I’m not quite sure how long the Kratie–Kampong Thom journey might take or how complicated it is.
Does this stop on the way to Siem Reap seem like a good idea to you? If we don’t visit the Sambor Prei Kuk site, are there still some walks and/or things to see in Kampong Thom?
Thanks in advance for your help.
We’ll be arriving in Phnom Penh this coming January and we’re thinking of starting our trip with a stop in Kampong Cham, then Kratie.
After Kratie, we’re considering heading toward Siem Reap with a stop in Kampong Thom.
However, I’m not quite sure how long the Kratie–Kampong Thom journey might take or how complicated it is.
Does this stop on the way to Siem Reap seem like a good idea to you? If we don’t visit the Sambor Prei Kuk site, are there still some walks and/or things to see in Kampong Thom?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Hi there,
We’re planning to travel from Chiang Rai to Luang Prabang next November.
We’d like to take a slow boat from Chiang Khong—or rather from Huay Xai in Laos—with an overnight stop in Pakbeng.
Could you let us know if the boat still leaves Huay Xai in the late morning? If so, what time roughly, and what’s the price for the trip?
Thanks for your help!
Alod
Hello everyone,
We (3 adults: 68, 65, and 25 years old) are just back from a short trip to the Philippines, and I’d like to share a little summary of our journey. First of all, I’d like to thank everyone who contributes to this forum about this destination and answers the questions of those who aren’t familiar with it. I should also mention that my comments are personal and don’t reflect anyone else’s opinions. Since I don’t have any literary or photographic talent, I’ll stick to the facts and share a few details about the sights, hotels, and restaurants.
Preparations: We chose this destination in December and quickly booked our flight tickets (540 € with Turkish Airlines) for a departure on February 16 and return on March 5, 2019. We then contacted two French-speaking tour operators based in Manila, asking them to put together an itinerary based on our wishes (places to visit, type of accommodation) and our budget. We wanted to see the rice terraces in northern Luzon, the hanging coffins in Sagada, before flying to the Visayas (Bohol, Siquijor, etc.), and the Taal Volcano, while limiting our nights in Manila as much as possible. In the end, we opted for Alize, whose itinerary and quote matched our request almost perfectly. Our exchanges helped us refine our circuit.
International flights: The round-trip flights went smoothly. Turkish Airlines, while not at the level of Asian or Gulf airlines, does the job just fine.
Day 1: We landed on time (6:15 PM) on Monday, February 16, at Terminal 3. We exchanged our euros (near the car rental counters), and I can confirm the exchange rate was very good. On the way to the St. Giles Hotel (decent and affordable for a transit night), we got our first glimpse of Manila’s dense traffic. The Makati district, where our hotel was located, offers a wide choice of restaurants, so we grabbed a quick bite to recover from the trip.
Day 2: This day was dedicated to transferring to Banaue. Fortunately, we had a comfortable van and an excellent driver for this journey, which took all day (8 to 9 hours with stops). We got a taste of driving in the Philippines—and it’s terrifying. You wouldn’t want to drive on these roads. The first thing that struck us was the relatively good condition of the roads and the cleanliness (a change from other Southeast Asian countries). This impression lasted throughout our trip. Around 6 PM, we checked into our room at the Banaue Hotel (large, charm-free, but with a beautiful view of the rice terraces).
Day 3: With the help of a local guide, we took a jeepney to Batad. And then—wow! The rice terraces form an amphitheater overlooking the small village. Under the sun, it’s simply spectacular and breathtaking! Even though we’re familiar with rice terraces (Sapa, Bali, Thailand, etc.), we were dazzled by so much beauty. We spent the day walking along the terrace walls. This place is timeless and fully deserves its UNESCO World Heritage status. However, we returned to the hotel exhausted (due to our ages and lack of exercise). We had dinner with our driver at the Las Vegas restaurant in the center of Banaue. The meal was decent, cheap, and the Filipino owner played the guitar to accompany our dinner.
Day 4: Today, our driver took us to Sagada. The mountain road offered spectacular landscapes (about 1.5 to 2 hours). Along the way, we stopped in Bontoc to visit the small but interesting anthropological museum. It features old photos and various objects from the Ifugao tribes, as well as a reconstruction of primitive dwellings. We then went on a short hike in Sagada with a very friendly local guide who explained the region’s funeral rites. The walk started at the communal cemetery before reaching “Echo Valley,” where we saw the first coffins hanging on the cliff. We continued to the “Underground River” and a small waterfall, ending our journey in the “Lumiang Cave” burial cave. All in all, this day was very interesting. On the way back, we made a few photo stops. In the evening, on our driver’s recommendation, we ate at the “Bistro,” a French enclave in the center of Banaue (good pizza, roasted quail, homemade fries).
Day 5: Today was a transfer day. To limit fatigue and nights in Manila, our tour operator arranged a flight from Clark to Tagbilaran (Bohol), saving us 2 to 3 hours of driving. But to catch our flight, we had to leave very early: 5:30 AM. Our kind driver dropped us off on time at the airport. To use it, we had to pay a 150 PHP tax per person. The Philippine Airlines flight (15 minutes) left early and was far from full. Upon arrival, we were taken to the Loboc River Hotel, on the banks of the river of the same name. A very charming lodge lost in a tropical garden. We stayed in a stilt cottage overlooking the river. We relaxed a bit in the lovely pool. This place is really great—the staff is charming, and the food is excellent for a reasonable price.
Day 6: This day was dedicated to exploring Bohol. The program was classic, starting with the tarsier sanctuary. We saw a few specimens in a small garden, each pointed out by a staff member. It was both good and disappointing because the animals were in pseudo-freedom in a small enclosure. Then we went to the “Chocolate Hills” and climbed 240 steps to admire the panoramic view of the hills—but by 10 AM, it was crowded. On the way back, we stopped at the butterfly garden, which was uninteresting: tiny, with few butterflies. We consoled ourselves by photographing beautiful flowers. To please our teen, we stopped at the Loboc Eco Tourism Adventure Park and crossed the river lying down, suspended from a steel cable (300 PHP). Finally, we had the traditional lunch-cruise on the Loboc River. It was a factory-like experience, and the meal was unremarkable. The only good thing was the singer on each boat and the lush vegetation. Afterward, we visited colonial churches and the cathedral, remnants of the Spanish presence, before returning to the hotel for a well-deserved dip in the pool. Note that for those interested, there’s an arena near the hotel where cockfights are held every Sunday—something Filipinos are passionate (if not obsessed) about.
Day 8: Very early departure for the port. We boarded a *banca* in search of dolphins. After about an hour of sailing, we were lucky enough to spot around a hundred dolphins. Our boat then headed to the small and charming island of Pamilacan. After a walk through the little village, we came across locals traditionally building a boat. They told us it takes about a month to finish their outrigger boat. Then we had to choose our snorkeling spot between the coral garden, the fish park, and the turtle enclosure. Note that a fee is charged for each spot: 150 PHP per place and per person. It felt a bit like we were being ripped off, especially since the spots weren’t amazing—we’d see much better on Apo for much less. We had lunch on the island at one of the many small eateries (350 PHP per person).
Days 9 and 10: On our return, we were taken to the Bohol Sea Resort on Panglao Island, where we stayed for 2 nights. It’s a small, recent establishment in a quiet corner of the island. It’s relaxing—maybe a bit too much. It has a nice pool and access to Danao Beach, but the view is blocked by a flotilla of boats. We didn’t try their diving school. The meals were good. If we had to do it again, we’d skip this stop to spend more time in Negros.
Days 11 and 12: We took a fast ferry (Ocean Jet) from Tagbilaran port to Dumaguete and were taken to the Thalatta Resort, about 20 km away near Zamboanguita. We stayed there for 2 nights. Let’s just say it was our favorite. It’s a small place facing Apo Island. The rooms are simple, and the pool, nestled in a magnificent tropical garden, is fantastic. The staff is friendly, and the meals are very good. The hotel has its own diving center (snorkeling gear provided) and its own boats. We booked the Apo Island excursion: 1,350 PHP per person, including lunch. It was incredible: magnificent corals, colorful fish, and turtles of all sizes. The crew was endlessly kind and didn’t hesitate to dive to guide us to the best spots. In short, a perfect day. This site is ranked among the top 5 diving spots in the Philippines. Since we were lucky enough to be there on a Wednesday morning, we explored the surprising Malapay Market, a 10-minute walk from our hotel. You’ll find numerous stalls selling vegetables, fruits, live or dried fish, and handicrafts. Enclosures are set up for selling livestock (calves, zebu, pigs). There are also restaurants. We were lucky to see two pigs roasted traditionally on a spit. There are few Europeans, and the people are warm. A great moment. We left this beautiful place with regret because we didn’t have time to visit the island or go swimming with whale sharks.
Days 12 to 15: From Dumaguete port, we took a short crossing (1 hour with Ocean Jet) to Siquijor Island to reach the Coco Grove Beach Resort. A beautiful hotel nestled in a spacious tropical garden. Several restaurants and bars, 4 pools. Despite the size of the place, it remains intimate. You can snorkel (corals and fish) right in front of the beautiful beach. We stayed in a very pleasant duplex suite. For those interested, there’s a spa and a diving center. You can also take the Apo Island excursion (offered at 1,950 PHP). We spent our days relaxing between the pool and the beach. In the evening, the sunsets over Negros and Apo were stunning. We booked an island tour with a comfortable tricycle from the hotel (1,500 PHP). The circuit was classic and allowed us to go around the island. We discovered beaches, the famous 400-year-old ficus tree with its enormous roots, and its equally famous foot bath with its cleaning fish. Then we visited the St. Isidore Convent before heading to the Cambugahay waterfalls and their four pools. The setting is idyllic, and the water is surprisingly good—we had a lot of fun swimming. We had dinner at a restaurant overlooking the island, where you can see Apo, Cebu, and Negros. In the end, Siquijor turned out to be a real little tropical paradise. Since the hotel restaurants were expensive, we dined at nearby establishments: Fuego (clean, good—excellent raw fish—and quiet), Chekesch (louder), and the very pleasant Baha Bar, which brews its own beer and offers more refined cuisine.
Days 15 to 16: We left at dawn to return to Dumaguete and its airport by ferry. We had breakfast at the Coco Grande Hotel, an annex of the previous one. The Philippine Airlines flight went smoothly. A driver took us to the town of Taal. We stayed at Paradores Del Castillo, right in the heart of the old town. It’s a charming old house with only 6 rooms. The various rooms are decorated with antiques—a real little museum. The garden is pleasant and opens onto the town. It’s an old early 19th-century house converted into a hotel, beautifully arranged with 6 rooms in the heart of the city. The restaurant in the garden is very pleasant and offers a panoramic view. We visited an old Spanish house before heading to the beautiful Basilica of St. Martin of Tours, one of the most beautiful religious buildings in the Philippines. A mass was in progress, allowing us to gauge the Filipinos’ fervor before we could visit. When we left, it was dark, and we could admire the illuminated building. We ended our evening by exploring the night market with its many fruit and skewer stalls. A nice surprise. In the morning, we were taken to the shores of Taal Lake, an ancient caldera where a second volcano has formed in the middle of the lake, which in turn contains another lake. We boarded a *banca* to reach the island in the middle of the lake. This was followed by an uphill walk, made difficult by the high temperature (36°C) and the dust on the path. The dust was worsened by the many horses carrying (or bringing back) the less courageous. To illustrate the difficulty of the climb, the trail is marked by the Stations of the Cross and its 14 stations. We were panting while our guide trotted far ahead. Our effort was rewarded when we reached the summit and its viewpoints over the inner lake and the surroundings. The wisps of smoke seen here and there confirmed we were on an active volcano. Inside the lake, there are supposedly 45 small volcanoes, one of which emerged during its last eruption in 1911. On the way back, we had lunch by the lake before returning to Manila and the Bayleaf Hotel, whose main merit is its location in the Intramuros district. In the late afternoon, we walked along the walls of the old city. We had dinner on the hotel’s panoramic terrace overlooking the city and the bay.
Day 17: Last day! Our tour operator joined us for a tour of the Intramuros district. He enriched the visit with comments on the history, geopolitics, and economy of the Philippines. We visited the Manila Cathedral, destroyed 7 times in the past (6 earthquakes and the 1945 bombing). It’s beautiful, and its stained glass is magnificent. We couldn’t enter the San Agustin Church, the oldest Catholic building in Manila. We passed by the memorial to the Battle of Manila, which claimed over 100,000 lives. We visited the area around Casa Manila, which was closed on Monday, and had a drink at Barbara’s cabaret, located in a historic house. A very enriching morning. Then we went to the Mall of Asia, the world’s largest shopping mall, to buy some souvenirs (Kultura store) before being taken to the airport. We exchanged our last pesos at the buying rate right after check-in. The return flight went smoothly. We regretted not being able to use the facilities of Istanbul’s new airport, as its opening was delayed by another month.
Finances: In the end, we spent 1,640 € for the international flights, 4,200 € for the stay (hotels, visits, various transports) with the agency (whose professionalism we can only praise), and about 700 € for meals, tips, and souvenirs.
Summary: Luckily, we had beautiful weather throughout our stay, with temperatures between 26 and 35°C. Discovering the Philippines was a wonderful experience. The diversity of the landscapes, the kindness of the Filipinos, the cleanliness, and the truly delicious fruits (especially pineapples and mangoes). We were never harassed, unlike in many touristy countries. On the other hand, the food, though generally cheap, wasn’t exceptional. Since this country is so vast, we might return in the near future.
Though I’m not a specialist on this destination, I’m happy to answer your questions based on my experience.
We (3 adults: 68, 65, and 25 years old) are just back from a short trip to the Philippines, and I’d like to share a little summary of our journey. First of all, I’d like to thank everyone who contributes to this forum about this destination and answers the questions of those who aren’t familiar with it. I should also mention that my comments are personal and don’t reflect anyone else’s opinions. Since I don’t have any literary or photographic talent, I’ll stick to the facts and share a few details about the sights, hotels, and restaurants.
Preparations: We chose this destination in December and quickly booked our flight tickets (540 € with Turkish Airlines) for a departure on February 16 and return on March 5, 2019. We then contacted two French-speaking tour operators based in Manila, asking them to put together an itinerary based on our wishes (places to visit, type of accommodation) and our budget. We wanted to see the rice terraces in northern Luzon, the hanging coffins in Sagada, before flying to the Visayas (Bohol, Siquijor, etc.), and the Taal Volcano, while limiting our nights in Manila as much as possible. In the end, we opted for Alize, whose itinerary and quote matched our request almost perfectly. Our exchanges helped us refine our circuit.
International flights: The round-trip flights went smoothly. Turkish Airlines, while not at the level of Asian or Gulf airlines, does the job just fine.
Day 1: We landed on time (6:15 PM) on Monday, February 16, at Terminal 3. We exchanged our euros (near the car rental counters), and I can confirm the exchange rate was very good. On the way to the St. Giles Hotel (decent and affordable for a transit night), we got our first glimpse of Manila’s dense traffic. The Makati district, where our hotel was located, offers a wide choice of restaurants, so we grabbed a quick bite to recover from the trip.
Day 2: This day was dedicated to transferring to Banaue. Fortunately, we had a comfortable van and an excellent driver for this journey, which took all day (8 to 9 hours with stops). We got a taste of driving in the Philippines—and it’s terrifying. You wouldn’t want to drive on these roads. The first thing that struck us was the relatively good condition of the roads and the cleanliness (a change from other Southeast Asian countries). This impression lasted throughout our trip. Around 6 PM, we checked into our room at the Banaue Hotel (large, charm-free, but with a beautiful view of the rice terraces).
Day 3: With the help of a local guide, we took a jeepney to Batad. And then—wow! The rice terraces form an amphitheater overlooking the small village. Under the sun, it’s simply spectacular and breathtaking! Even though we’re familiar with rice terraces (Sapa, Bali, Thailand, etc.), we were dazzled by so much beauty. We spent the day walking along the terrace walls. This place is timeless and fully deserves its UNESCO World Heritage status. However, we returned to the hotel exhausted (due to our ages and lack of exercise). We had dinner with our driver at the Las Vegas restaurant in the center of Banaue. The meal was decent, cheap, and the Filipino owner played the guitar to accompany our dinner.
Day 4: Today, our driver took us to Sagada. The mountain road offered spectacular landscapes (about 1.5 to 2 hours). Along the way, we stopped in Bontoc to visit the small but interesting anthropological museum. It features old photos and various objects from the Ifugao tribes, as well as a reconstruction of primitive dwellings. We then went on a short hike in Sagada with a very friendly local guide who explained the region’s funeral rites. The walk started at the communal cemetery before reaching “Echo Valley,” where we saw the first coffins hanging on the cliff. We continued to the “Underground River” and a small waterfall, ending our journey in the “Lumiang Cave” burial cave. All in all, this day was very interesting. On the way back, we made a few photo stops. In the evening, on our driver’s recommendation, we ate at the “Bistro,” a French enclave in the center of Banaue (good pizza, roasted quail, homemade fries).
Day 5: Today was a transfer day. To limit fatigue and nights in Manila, our tour operator arranged a flight from Clark to Tagbilaran (Bohol), saving us 2 to 3 hours of driving. But to catch our flight, we had to leave very early: 5:30 AM. Our kind driver dropped us off on time at the airport. To use it, we had to pay a 150 PHP tax per person. The Philippine Airlines flight (15 minutes) left early and was far from full. Upon arrival, we were taken to the Loboc River Hotel, on the banks of the river of the same name. A very charming lodge lost in a tropical garden. We stayed in a stilt cottage overlooking the river. We relaxed a bit in the lovely pool. This place is really great—the staff is charming, and the food is excellent for a reasonable price.
Day 6: This day was dedicated to exploring Bohol. The program was classic, starting with the tarsier sanctuary. We saw a few specimens in a small garden, each pointed out by a staff member. It was both good and disappointing because the animals were in pseudo-freedom in a small enclosure. Then we went to the “Chocolate Hills” and climbed 240 steps to admire the panoramic view of the hills—but by 10 AM, it was crowded. On the way back, we stopped at the butterfly garden, which was uninteresting: tiny, with few butterflies. We consoled ourselves by photographing beautiful flowers. To please our teen, we stopped at the Loboc Eco Tourism Adventure Park and crossed the river lying down, suspended from a steel cable (300 PHP). Finally, we had the traditional lunch-cruise on the Loboc River. It was a factory-like experience, and the meal was unremarkable. The only good thing was the singer on each boat and the lush vegetation. Afterward, we visited colonial churches and the cathedral, remnants of the Spanish presence, before returning to the hotel for a well-deserved dip in the pool. Note that for those interested, there’s an arena near the hotel where cockfights are held every Sunday—something Filipinos are passionate (if not obsessed) about.
Day 8: Very early departure for the port. We boarded a *banca* in search of dolphins. After about an hour of sailing, we were lucky enough to spot around a hundred dolphins. Our boat then headed to the small and charming island of Pamilacan. After a walk through the little village, we came across locals traditionally building a boat. They told us it takes about a month to finish their outrigger boat. Then we had to choose our snorkeling spot between the coral garden, the fish park, and the turtle enclosure. Note that a fee is charged for each spot: 150 PHP per place and per person. It felt a bit like we were being ripped off, especially since the spots weren’t amazing—we’d see much better on Apo for much less. We had lunch on the island at one of the many small eateries (350 PHP per person).
Days 9 and 10: On our return, we were taken to the Bohol Sea Resort on Panglao Island, where we stayed for 2 nights. It’s a small, recent establishment in a quiet corner of the island. It’s relaxing—maybe a bit too much. It has a nice pool and access to Danao Beach, but the view is blocked by a flotilla of boats. We didn’t try their diving school. The meals were good. If we had to do it again, we’d skip this stop to spend more time in Negros.
Days 11 and 12: We took a fast ferry (Ocean Jet) from Tagbilaran port to Dumaguete and were taken to the Thalatta Resort, about 20 km away near Zamboanguita. We stayed there for 2 nights. Let’s just say it was our favorite. It’s a small place facing Apo Island. The rooms are simple, and the pool, nestled in a magnificent tropical garden, is fantastic. The staff is friendly, and the meals are very good. The hotel has its own diving center (snorkeling gear provided) and its own boats. We booked the Apo Island excursion: 1,350 PHP per person, including lunch. It was incredible: magnificent corals, colorful fish, and turtles of all sizes. The crew was endlessly kind and didn’t hesitate to dive to guide us to the best spots. In short, a perfect day. This site is ranked among the top 5 diving spots in the Philippines. Since we were lucky enough to be there on a Wednesday morning, we explored the surprising Malapay Market, a 10-minute walk from our hotel. You’ll find numerous stalls selling vegetables, fruits, live or dried fish, and handicrafts. Enclosures are set up for selling livestock (calves, zebu, pigs). There are also restaurants. We were lucky to see two pigs roasted traditionally on a spit. There are few Europeans, and the people are warm. A great moment. We left this beautiful place with regret because we didn’t have time to visit the island or go swimming with whale sharks.
Days 12 to 15: From Dumaguete port, we took a short crossing (1 hour with Ocean Jet) to Siquijor Island to reach the Coco Grove Beach Resort. A beautiful hotel nestled in a spacious tropical garden. Several restaurants and bars, 4 pools. Despite the size of the place, it remains intimate. You can snorkel (corals and fish) right in front of the beautiful beach. We stayed in a very pleasant duplex suite. For those interested, there’s a spa and a diving center. You can also take the Apo Island excursion (offered at 1,950 PHP). We spent our days relaxing between the pool and the beach. In the evening, the sunsets over Negros and Apo were stunning. We booked an island tour with a comfortable tricycle from the hotel (1,500 PHP). The circuit was classic and allowed us to go around the island. We discovered beaches, the famous 400-year-old ficus tree with its enormous roots, and its equally famous foot bath with its cleaning fish. Then we visited the St. Isidore Convent before heading to the Cambugahay waterfalls and their four pools. The setting is idyllic, and the water is surprisingly good—we had a lot of fun swimming. We had dinner at a restaurant overlooking the island, where you can see Apo, Cebu, and Negros. In the end, Siquijor turned out to be a real little tropical paradise. Since the hotel restaurants were expensive, we dined at nearby establishments: Fuego (clean, good—excellent raw fish—and quiet), Chekesch (louder), and the very pleasant Baha Bar, which brews its own beer and offers more refined cuisine.
Days 15 to 16: We left at dawn to return to Dumaguete and its airport by ferry. We had breakfast at the Coco Grande Hotel, an annex of the previous one. The Philippine Airlines flight went smoothly. A driver took us to the town of Taal. We stayed at Paradores Del Castillo, right in the heart of the old town. It’s a charming old house with only 6 rooms. The various rooms are decorated with antiques—a real little museum. The garden is pleasant and opens onto the town. It’s an old early 19th-century house converted into a hotel, beautifully arranged with 6 rooms in the heart of the city. The restaurant in the garden is very pleasant and offers a panoramic view. We visited an old Spanish house before heading to the beautiful Basilica of St. Martin of Tours, one of the most beautiful religious buildings in the Philippines. A mass was in progress, allowing us to gauge the Filipinos’ fervor before we could visit. When we left, it was dark, and we could admire the illuminated building. We ended our evening by exploring the night market with its many fruit and skewer stalls. A nice surprise. In the morning, we were taken to the shores of Taal Lake, an ancient caldera where a second volcano has formed in the middle of the lake, which in turn contains another lake. We boarded a *banca* to reach the island in the middle of the lake. This was followed by an uphill walk, made difficult by the high temperature (36°C) and the dust on the path. The dust was worsened by the many horses carrying (or bringing back) the less courageous. To illustrate the difficulty of the climb, the trail is marked by the Stations of the Cross and its 14 stations. We were panting while our guide trotted far ahead. Our effort was rewarded when we reached the summit and its viewpoints over the inner lake and the surroundings. The wisps of smoke seen here and there confirmed we were on an active volcano. Inside the lake, there are supposedly 45 small volcanoes, one of which emerged during its last eruption in 1911. On the way back, we had lunch by the lake before returning to Manila and the Bayleaf Hotel, whose main merit is its location in the Intramuros district. In the late afternoon, we walked along the walls of the old city. We had dinner on the hotel’s panoramic terrace overlooking the city and the bay.
Day 17: Last day! Our tour operator joined us for a tour of the Intramuros district. He enriched the visit with comments on the history, geopolitics, and economy of the Philippines. We visited the Manila Cathedral, destroyed 7 times in the past (6 earthquakes and the 1945 bombing). It’s beautiful, and its stained glass is magnificent. We couldn’t enter the San Agustin Church, the oldest Catholic building in Manila. We passed by the memorial to the Battle of Manila, which claimed over 100,000 lives. We visited the area around Casa Manila, which was closed on Monday, and had a drink at Barbara’s cabaret, located in a historic house. A very enriching morning. Then we went to the Mall of Asia, the world’s largest shopping mall, to buy some souvenirs (Kultura store) before being taken to the airport. We exchanged our last pesos at the buying rate right after check-in. The return flight went smoothly. We regretted not being able to use the facilities of Istanbul’s new airport, as its opening was delayed by another month.
Finances: In the end, we spent 1,640 € for the international flights, 4,200 € for the stay (hotels, visits, various transports) with the agency (whose professionalism we can only praise), and about 700 € for meals, tips, and souvenirs.
Summary: Luckily, we had beautiful weather throughout our stay, with temperatures between 26 and 35°C. Discovering the Philippines was a wonderful experience. The diversity of the landscapes, the kindness of the Filipinos, the cleanliness, and the truly delicious fruits (especially pineapples and mangoes). We were never harassed, unlike in many touristy countries. On the other hand, the food, though generally cheap, wasn’t exceptional. Since this country is so vast, we might return in the near future.
Though I’m not a specialist on this destination, I’m happy to answer your questions based on my experience.
So, my flight tickets have just been booked for a trip to Cambodia from November 4th to 27th, 2025.
I’ll be traveling solo and want to explore this amazing country while getting a bit off the beaten path.
I’m arriving in Phnom Penh and also departing from Phnom Penh.
My goal is to travel as much as possible by bus and scooter.
What itinerary would you recommend?
What are the must-do things?
I’m open to all tips and info.
Thanks in advance for your help and responses.
We got back enchanted from a 6-week trip to Cambodia!
Our itinerary: Kampot - Kampong Chhnang - Battambang - Siem Reap - Kampong Cham - Sen Monorom (Mondulkiri) - Banlung (Ratanakiri) - Kratie - Kampong Thom - Phnom Penh.
We traveled by bus, minivan, boat (between Battambang and Siem Reap), overnight bus, scooter, tuk-tuk, and rickshaw for shorter distances. We stayed in guesthouses, homestays, and even in the jungle during a trek.
While the Angkor temples are fabulous, it’s the people you should visit Cambodia for—the "Land of Smiles" truly lives up to its nickname! Tourists gather in Angkor but are quite rare elsewhere, even though the country is easy to travel around.
I won’t describe our trip in detail but instead highlight a few favorite moments.
From Kampot, don’t hesitate to head out around 6 AM to see the fishermen return and their wives selling their catch (just 10 minutes away by the coast). Guaranteed picturesque!
In Battambang, known for its food scene, we discovered a cooking class with Smokin’ Pot (authentic Khmer cooking class). They pick you up from your guesthouse to shop for ingredients (we made fish amok and beef lok lak) at their village market, then cook and eat together. A private class—just the two of us! They also send the recipes via WhatsApp as a PDF. +855 12 821 400
In Siem Reap, I can recommend a francophone tuk-tuk driver who was very attentive to our wishes. We visited tourist spots but also more remote villages and local grilled-pork restaurants with him. He’s a wealth of information about local life, and chatting with him was a real pleasure—we left with regret! You can reach him on WhatsApp: Vung Hem, +855 96 614 0146.
We did a 2-day, 1-night trek in Mondulkiri. Don’t expect a super dense jungle—it looks more like a forest similar to ours. But Nara, our Bunong ethnic guide, made the experience adventurous and ultimately very immersive! WhatsApp +855 86 630 489
Bee Bee’s Chalets homestay: If you pass through Banlung in Ratanakiri, we *loved* this family and their budget-friendly bungalows. Playing Uno, enjoying Nita’s cooking (ask for her fish amok—amazing!), it was a true homestay experience! Contact Nita on WhatsApp: +855 88 818 5525.
In Kratie, rent a scooter and follow the Mekong north for 40 km at your own pace. Being so close to the locals was a treat! Same goes for heading south if you have time.
Kampong Thom: Head 25 km out to visit the pre-Angkorian temples of Sambor Prei Kuk. Around a hundred monuments spread across three sites… and hardly anyone there!
A few practical tips: Though prices are often listed in dollars, you can always pay in riels (1 USD = 4000 riels), which is what we preferred. PassApp: An app to book tuk-tuks or rickshaws (and most importantly, know the price upfront). Virak Buntham: A bus company connecting several cities, bookable online.
Feel free to ask me questions about places, accommodations, etc.—I’d be happy to answer!
A few practical tips: Though prices are often listed in dollars, you can always pay in riels (1 USD = 4000 riels), which is what we preferred. PassApp: An app to book tuk-tuks or rickshaws (and most importantly, know the price upfront). Virak Buntham: A bus company connecting several cities, bookable online.
Feel free to ask me questions about places, accommodations, etc.—I’d be happy to answer!
Hi everyone,
We’re planning our second trip to Thailand (2 weeks on-site, late April/early May) as a family with our 5- and 7-year-olds.
On our first trip, we visited Bangkok, Ayutthaya, the River Kwai, Koh Lipe, Koh Phi Phi, and Khao Lak. We especially loved Koh Phi Phi for its limestone cliffs and lush vegetation, as well as Koh Lipe for its crystal-clear waters and snorkeling.
This time, I’m thinking of spending 7 days on the islands. I was considering Koh Tao and Koh Phangan. We’d like some scenery, snorkeling right from the beach, and a bit of atmosphere—but not too much (just enough to grab dinner in the evening).
For the other part of the trip, we’re torn between Chiang Mai and Khao Sok. One or the other… or both? We don’t want to rush, but we’re really nature-focused, so we won’t be hitting too many temples…
Thanks in advance for your tips and experiences!
We’re planning our second trip to Thailand (2 weeks on-site, late April/early May) as a family with our 5- and 7-year-olds.
On our first trip, we visited Bangkok, Ayutthaya, the River Kwai, Koh Lipe, Koh Phi Phi, and Khao Lak. We especially loved Koh Phi Phi for its limestone cliffs and lush vegetation, as well as Koh Lipe for its crystal-clear waters and snorkeling.
This time, I’m thinking of spending 7 days on the islands. I was considering Koh Tao and Koh Phangan. We’d like some scenery, snorkeling right from the beach, and a bit of atmosphere—but not too much (just enough to grab dinner in the evening).
For the other part of the trip, we’re torn between Chiang Mai and Khao Sok. One or the other… or both? We don’t want to rush, but we’re really nature-focused, so we won’t be hitting too many temples…
Thanks in advance for your tips and experiences!
Hi everyone, I’m looking to do a 15-day Muay Thai training course. Any great places to recommend? Thanks
Hi there, I’ll be on vacation in Malaysia in November and plan to spend 5 days in Penang. After that, I’d like to visit some temples and places in Butterworth or nearby, and also explore the city. Since I usually get around on foot, which neighborhood would be best for me—meaning within a 30-minute walk of attractions, street food stalls, bus lines, etc.? Thanks in advance for your help!
Françoise
Hello, it’s been a while since I last asked for your help on this forum—I’ve really missed it! I hope you’re all doing well, whether you're new or returning members.
I’m planning a trip from February 6 to 18, 2027, with my sister (we’re 47 and 50—time flies!). I’ve got my eye on a flight from Paris that lands in Bangkok on February 7 at 3 PM, with a return flight from Bangkok on February 18 at noon.
My sister has never been to this destination, and it’ll be her first time in Asia. Her priorities: beaches, sunshine, and cocktails by the shore. For me, I love that too, but I also enjoy exploring, nature, forests, and a bit of comfort (mixing guesthouses and higher-end hotels with pools). A little evening entertainment would be great, but not too much—good cocktails in a nice atmosphere rather than a rave party ;-). And I can’t help but dream of taking her on a little trek through a tropical forest (guaranteed memories and laughs, though she might curse me at the time) and showing her some karst landscapes.
I’ve been to Thailand before, but it was 15 years ago...
The idea is to give her a taste of Bangkok for 1 or 2 nights, a few days on an island (but which one...?), a tropical forest excursion with 1 or 2 nights on-site (Khao Sok?), and then back to Bangkok.
For the "main" island, even after reading the *Guide du Routard*, I’m still undecided. It’s hard to find a place that ticks all the boxes without feeling as crowded as the French Riviera in August: Koh Lanta? Khao Lak (though it’s not an island)? Koh Tao (I could maybe get my PADI certification, but I’m afraid she’d get bored, and it might be better to save that for a solo trip)? Koh Yao Yai (I worry we’d be bored in the evenings)? What a dilemma!
Thank you if you’ve read this far! Feel free to share any advice—it’ll all be warmly welcomed.
Here’s a rough outline of the itinerary (I’d rather skip a night in Bangkok if needed):
· Saturday, February 6, 2027: departure (overnight flight) · Sunday, February 7, 2027: arrival at 3 PM, probably at the hotel by 6 PM, evening in Bangkok (overnight in Bangkok) · Monday, February 8, 2027: day in Bangkok (Wat Pho and a floating market?) (overnight in Bangkok) · Tuesday, February 9, 2027: travel to Koh Lanta or another island (flight to Phuket or Krabi?) (overnight on island "x") · Wednesday, February 10, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Thursday, February 11, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Friday, February 12, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Saturday, February 13, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Sunday, February 14, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Monday, February 15, 2027: travel to Khao Sok—nighttime excursion to Khao Sok (overnight in Khao Sok) · Tuesday, February 16, 2027: exploration and hike in Khao Sok (overnight in Khao Sok) · Wednesday, February 17, 2027: return trip to Bangkok (overnight in Bangkok) · Thursday, February 18, 2027: return flight to Paris at noon
I’m planning a trip from February 6 to 18, 2027, with my sister (we’re 47 and 50—time flies!). I’ve got my eye on a flight from Paris that lands in Bangkok on February 7 at 3 PM, with a return flight from Bangkok on February 18 at noon.
My sister has never been to this destination, and it’ll be her first time in Asia. Her priorities: beaches, sunshine, and cocktails by the shore. For me, I love that too, but I also enjoy exploring, nature, forests, and a bit of comfort (mixing guesthouses and higher-end hotels with pools). A little evening entertainment would be great, but not too much—good cocktails in a nice atmosphere rather than a rave party ;-). And I can’t help but dream of taking her on a little trek through a tropical forest (guaranteed memories and laughs, though she might curse me at the time) and showing her some karst landscapes.
I’ve been to Thailand before, but it was 15 years ago...
The idea is to give her a taste of Bangkok for 1 or 2 nights, a few days on an island (but which one...?), a tropical forest excursion with 1 or 2 nights on-site (Khao Sok?), and then back to Bangkok.
For the "main" island, even after reading the *Guide du Routard*, I’m still undecided. It’s hard to find a place that ticks all the boxes without feeling as crowded as the French Riviera in August: Koh Lanta? Khao Lak (though it’s not an island)? Koh Tao (I could maybe get my PADI certification, but I’m afraid she’d get bored, and it might be better to save that for a solo trip)? Koh Yao Yai (I worry we’d be bored in the evenings)? What a dilemma!
Thank you if you’ve read this far! Feel free to share any advice—it’ll all be warmly welcomed.
Here’s a rough outline of the itinerary (I’d rather skip a night in Bangkok if needed):
· Saturday, February 6, 2027: departure (overnight flight) · Sunday, February 7, 2027: arrival at 3 PM, probably at the hotel by 6 PM, evening in Bangkok (overnight in Bangkok) · Monday, February 8, 2027: day in Bangkok (Wat Pho and a floating market?) (overnight in Bangkok) · Tuesday, February 9, 2027: travel to Koh Lanta or another island (flight to Phuket or Krabi?) (overnight on island "x") · Wednesday, February 10, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Thursday, February 11, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Friday, February 12, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Saturday, February 13, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Sunday, February 14, 2027: beach and walks (overnight on island "x") · Monday, February 15, 2027: travel to Khao Sok—nighttime excursion to Khao Sok (overnight in Khao Sok) · Tuesday, February 16, 2027: exploration and hike in Khao Sok (overnight in Khao Sok) · Wednesday, February 17, 2027: return trip to Bangkok (overnight in Bangkok) · Thursday, February 18, 2027: return flight to Paris at noon
Hi there,
I’m planning a trip to Cambodia and was set on visiting the Ratanakiri region, which seemed to match what we love most in terms of landscapes: forests, jungle, greenery...
However, as I started looking into the area, I read that deforestation there is massive, and some of the info on the topic is years old—the situation hasn’t improved since, unfortunately.
So my question is: is Ratanakiri still worth visiting, and does it justify the long travel time and distance to get there?
I’ve seen that jungle treks are possible, but from experience, I know guides sometimes hesitate to venture deep into the forest and stick to shorter walks along the edges of parks.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
I’m planning a trip to Cambodia and was set on visiting the Ratanakiri region, which seemed to match what we love most in terms of landscapes: forests, jungle, greenery...
However, as I started looking into the area, I read that deforestation there is massive, and some of the info on the topic is years old—the situation hasn’t improved since, unfortunately.
So my question is: is Ratanakiri still worth visiting, and does it justify the long travel time and distance to get there?
I’ve seen that jungle treks are possible, but from experience, I know guides sometimes hesitate to venture deep into the forest and stick to shorter walks along the edges of parks.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Hi there,
I’ve found so many tips and reviews on this forum, so it’s my turn to contribute a little.
We spent just over two weeks with our family, with the following itinerary:
- Hanoi: 5 days
- Halong Bay: 3 days and 2 nights
- Tam Coc: 3 days
- Mai Chau: 2 days
- Sapa: 3 days
We got around by bike, scooter, Grab, and bus.
Our main accommodations were homestays and hotels in Hanoi.
We visited lots of museums, temples, and neighborhoods in Hanoi.
We did a 2-day, 1-night trek in Sapa with May, a Hmong local, without going through an agency.
A few small regrets: the weather was overcast, and we couldn’t make it to Fansipan, but nothing major 😅. We also couldn’t find transport to get from Sapa to Mu Cang Chai.
Other than that, this trip will stay in our memories for the kindness of the Vietnamese people, the connections we made, the food (street food, homestays...), the coffee 😋, the landscapes, and how easy it was to get around...
Our goal was to take our time and focus only on a small part of northern Vietnam.
If you need any tips or recommendations, don’t hesitate to ask.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Cédric.
Hi there, we’re landing at Hanoi Airport and would like to head straight to Cao Bang without going into Hanoi. Does anyone know if there are buses that go directly from the airport to Cao Bang (especially in the early afternoon)? Thanks in advance!