Hey Jef, 🙂
It’s only when you start planning trips elsewhere that you realize how lucky we are to live in the Schengen Zone!
For Lake Issyk-Kul, my issue is the Karakol market, which only happens on Sundays.
And international flight schedules that aren’t the same every day...
Some are better than others for the total duration from Lyon.
I’ll check if there’s a similar market in another stopover "city."
We really want to experience one.
3 weeks in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, preliminary travel questions
by Attila
Translated into English.
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Ok, that’s why you "drag your feet" at first to speed up later
Yeah .😉
I also struggled to put together an itinerary that doesn’t retrace the same roads—except around Lenin Peak, where there aren’t many options...
I also struggled to put together an itinerary that doesn’t retrace the same roads—except around Lenin Peak, where there aren’t many options...
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I also found Tokmok and At Bashy.
But I won’t be there on a Sunday.
Kochkor would’ve been good for a Sunday if I skipped the night in Bokonbaevo, but it’s the only market that takes place on Saturday according to my research! 🥴♂️
Tokmok might work if I move Ala Archa to the end and if the market doesn’t finish too early (I’d then leave Bishkek with the vehicle pickup the night before).
Kochkor would’ve been good for a Sunday if I skipped the night in Bokonbaevo, but it’s the only market that takes place on Saturday according to my research! 🥴♂️
Tokmok might work if I move Ala Archa to the end and if the market doesn’t finish too early (I’d then leave Bishkek with the vehicle pickup the night before).
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You can skip the northern part of the lake unless you're into mass tourism and all the beachside activities that come with it. You could also learn Russian and how to sip vodka properly.
The north of the lake doesn’t have much to offer except Cholpon-Ata, but you can find other spots like Saimaluu-Tash that are way more off the beaten path.
Going to Karakol via the south and returning the same way will let you visit some really interesting places. For me, that’s the way to go.
Going to Karakol via the south and returning the same way will let you visit some really interesting places. For me, that’s the way to go.
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
Uzgen might be a good choice. Back in the day, I noted that this town could be interesting—there are a few monuments, and it's well located after the big descent into the Ferghana Valley.
The little I saw of Lake Issyk-Kul didn’t impress me much—between old Soviet industries and beach resorts... I’m talking about the northern part of the lake
The little I saw of Lake Issyk-Kul didn’t impress me much—between old Soviet industries and beach resorts... I’m talking about the northern part of the lake
I recommend getting this app on the Apple Store. You buy the Kyrgyzstan section.
You’ll be able to prepare your trip more easily. Once there, you can reconfigure it if the weather plays tricks on you. I find it really easy to use and super helpful.
This app is also available on Android. Read the help section before you go to navigate it better.
https://apps.apple.com/fr/app/overland-map/id6741202903
This app is also available on Android. Read the help section before you go to navigate it better.
https://apps.apple.com/fr/app/overland-map/id6741202903
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
The northern route is just to avoid backtracking. It's a transit day—I don’t plan to linger along the way except for a lunch stop.
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Does it work offline?
Speaking of data, how's the coverage in Kyrgyzstan?
I'll need to buy a local SIM card since my provider is useless for this destination...
Speaking of data, how's the coverage in Kyrgyzstan?
I'll need to buy a local SIM card since my provider is useless for this destination...
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Hotels and other accommodations seem to be really scarce in Uzgen. I don’t see any. 🤪
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The app looks really interesting 🙂... I stuck with the paper version 😉
Here’s what I had noted about Uzgen:
In the end, the mausoleums in Ouzgen aren’t anything to write home about. Since it was getting late (around 6:30 / 7 PM), we started looking for a guesthouse. Christophe chatted with a few people, and one of them guided us to what seemed to be the only guesthouse in town. But the place was deserted—no one around—and the room they showed us was really unappealing.
So we decided to push on to Osh.
In the end, Uzgen might not be such a great choice 😉
In the end, the mausoleums in Ouzgen aren’t anything to write home about. Since it was getting late (around 6:30 / 7 PM), we started looking for a guesthouse. Christophe chatted with a few people, and one of them guided us to what seemed to be the only guesthouse in town. But the place was deserted—no one around—and the room they showed us was really unappealing.
So we decided to push on to Osh.
In the end, Uzgen might not be such a great choice 😉
The northern route is just to avoid taking the same road twice. It's a transit day; I don't plan to linger along the way except for a lunch stop.
But what a shame—there’s so much to see on the southern route. And the north is so boring. Check the app mentioned in a previous post—the K3 route with its variants lets you avoid backtracking halfway. I can still add more unlisted stops. Here’s an idea that just popped into my head: gifting it to the publisher.
But what a shame—there’s so much to see on the southern route. And the north is so boring. Check the app mentioned in a previous post—the K3 route with its variants lets you avoid backtracking halfway. I can still add more unlisted stops. Here’s an idea that just popped into my head: gifting it to the publisher.
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
The paper version is useful but not very adaptable since updates are more complex.
The digital version is much more flexible to use, easier to update, and lighter for travelers flying to these countries.
Don’t forget to check the paper version’s updates on the website—also helpful for planning an overland adventure: overlandaventure.com
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
After all, Uzgen might not be such a great choice ;)
True enough! !
Osh like Jalal-Abad are also comfortable overnight stops (especially for dinner...). I get the feeling that food-wise, this country isn’t great—especially if you don’t like lamb...
True enough! !
Osh like Jalal-Abad are also comfortable overnight stops (especially for dinner...). I get the feeling that food-wise, this country isn’t great—especially if you don’t like lamb...
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Talking about data, how's the coverage in Kyrgyzstan?
In 2024, we got SIM cards from O!, Beeline, and Megafon. Coverage varies depending on the operator and region. When you pay: Beeline: 50GB for 250 Som (1 month) Megafon: 40GB for 250 Som (1 month) O!: unlimited for 1 month (500 Som) You can stack the cards without breaking the bank.
Tip: Since you’re arriving by air, I think the easiest option is to grab the SIM card(s) at the airport. It’s a country where you need to register your phone’s IMEI code. We ran into issues registering phones when entering by land. After visiting two shops, someone vouched for our registration. There were also problems in Karakol when trying to top up a card. I think the shops at the airport are more reliable.
In 2024, we got SIM cards from O!, Beeline, and Megafon. Coverage varies depending on the operator and region. When you pay: Beeline: 50GB for 250 Som (1 month) Megafon: 40GB for 250 Som (1 month) O!: unlimited for 1 month (500 Som) You can stack the cards without breaking the bank.
Tip: Since you’re arriving by air, I think the easiest option is to grab the SIM card(s) at the airport. It’s a country where you need to register your phone’s IMEI code. We ran into issues registering phones when entering by land. After visiting two shops, someone vouched for our registration. There were also problems in Karakol when trying to top up a card. I think the shops at the airport are more reliable.
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
The south is planned for 4 to 5 nights, depending on the final itinerary.
The north will just be a few hours in passing. Either way—whether you go through the north or the south—this leg will only be a day of driving.
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Thanks for the info.😉
We’ll each take one from two different providers.
Either at the airport or in Bishkek, depending on our arrival time.
We’ll each take one from two different providers.
Either at the airport or in Bishkek, depending on our arrival time.
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I get the feeling that taste-wise, this country isn’t great, especially if you don’t like lamb...
Tomatoes, veggies, raspberries, apricots, etc., bought from roadside stalls make for excellent meals. Our bivouacs don’t let us test out restaurants for dinner. We prefer open-air terraces, lost in nature watching the sunset 😏
Tomatoes, veggies, raspberries, apricots, etc., bought from roadside stalls make for excellent meals. Our bivouacs don’t let us test out restaurants for dinner. We prefer open-air terraces, lost in nature watching the sunset 😏
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
On dirt tracks, Google is regularly wildly optimistic (it makes the route via Tosor seem almost like a highway...) while Maps.me gives durations as if the car were a pedestrian...
From the north, Google shows 282 kilometers and 5 hours, Maps.me 278 and 4.
From the south, G 253 and 4h30, MM 251 and 3h50.
On paved roads, it seems to be the opposite...
Google is generally reliable on tarmac if many users are connected. Still, you should often add an hour because a human isn’t a machine—they take wrong turns and make stops!
On dirt tracks, I average about 30 km/h. Less if there are mountain passes.
From the north, Google shows 282 kilometers and 5 hours, Maps.me 278 and 4.
From the south, G 253 and 4h30, MM 251 and 3h50.
On paved roads, it seems to be the opposite...
Google is generally reliable on tarmac if many users are connected. Still, you should often add an hour because a human isn’t a machine—they take wrong turns and make stops!
On dirt tracks, I average about 30 km/h. Less if there are mountain passes.
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Perfect if there are fruits and vegetables by the roadside for midday picnics.
For the evenings, I think we’ll mention sometimes that we’re vegetarian! We’ll make up for it with kebabs wherever we find them.
We might also bring stuff to make noodles or an omelet... Coffee too, since this country seems to be a tea place! 😊
For the evenings, I think we’ll mention sometimes that we’re vegetarian! We’ll make up for it with kebabs wherever we find them.
We might also bring stuff to make noodles or an omelet... Coffee too, since this country seems to be a tea place! 😊
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No no, they're generally quite religious...😎
Qui boit l'eau d'une terre étrangère doit en suivre les coutumes (proverbe Mongol)
😏
Their version, a bit flavored with vodka, right?😇
By the way, what else do people drink there besides fermented milk and vodka?
Their version, a bit flavored with vodka, right?😇
By the way, what else do people drink there besides fermented milk and vodka?
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Hello,
Great to see you joining this travel thread on VF. 😉
Yeah, but the essentials have already been covered...😉 Still, it’s a shame not to go up to Tosor Pass...though at the time you’re planning, it might still be a bit tricky. I remember discussing it back in 2016 with Cécile and Laurent when we "crossed paths" on the track along the Panj River in Tajikistan. They’d just come through the pass in mid-July (around then) and had to move rocks to get through. The track wasn’t very well-used yet, so mid-June could be even worse.
Great to see you joining this travel thread on VF. 😉
Yeah, but the essentials have already been covered...😉 Still, it’s a shame not to go up to Tosor Pass...though at the time you’re planning, it might still be a bit tricky. I remember discussing it back in 2016 with Cécile and Laurent when we "crossed paths" on the track along the Panj River in Tajikistan. They’d just come through the pass in mid-July (around then) and had to move rocks to get through. The track wasn’t very well-used yet, so mid-June could be even worse.
Qui boit l'eau d'une terre étrangère doit en suivre les coutumes (proverbe Mongol)
By the way, what else do they drink besides fermented milk and vodka over there?
I’ve got nothing against vodka... but you still need to find the good stuff—watch out for bootleg alcohol😉 Otherwise, stick to beer. I don’t recall drinking wine in any of the few restaurants I visited in the country.
That said, to help wash down the yak meat... I *highly* recommend vodka.
I’ve got nothing against vodka... but you still need to find the good stuff—watch out for bootleg alcohol😉 Otherwise, stick to beer. I don’t recall drinking wine in any of the few restaurants I visited in the country.
That said, to help wash down the yak meat... I *highly* recommend vodka.
Qui boit l'eau d'une terre étrangère doit en suivre les coutumes (proverbe Mongol)
Well, it’s still a shame not to go up to Tosor Pass... having said that, at the time you’re planning, it might still be a bit tricky.
I remember discussing it back in 2016 with Cécile and Laurent when we "crossed paths" on the trail along the Panj River in Tajikistan. They’d just come through the pass in mid-July (around then) and had to move rocks to get through. The track wasn’t very busy yet, so mid-June could be even worse.
In 2024, turning back wasn’t an option for us. Even smaller vehicles had to turn around. We met a local taking tourists for a drive—he made it through, but there were lots of rocks and stones to move, plus sections with a lot of water. They were happy to have made it, but... from what they said, it was intense, except for the water. After all, Attila has crossed quite a few mountains.
In 2024, turning back wasn’t an option for us. Even smaller vehicles had to turn around. We met a local taking tourists for a drive—he made it through, but there were lots of rocks and stones to move, plus sections with a lot of water. They were happy to have made it, but... from what they said, it was intense, except for the water. After all, Attila has crossed quite a few mountains.
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
I think I'm gonna pack a bottle in my luggage...
Beer isn't really my thing.
Vodka isn't either...
(There's at least some in Bishkek...
Photo grabbed from Google)
(There's at least some in Bishkek...
Photo grabbed from Google)
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A rental company provides a list of forbidden tracks for its vehicles.
Tosor is on it (conditions too poor).
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A rental company lists tracks that are off-limits to its vehicles.
Tosor is one of them (conditions too poor).
When I passed through, I didn’t find anything too challenging—I’m used to mountain tracks, but honestly, there wasn’t any real difficulty to handle. I made a short video of the southern approach, then a few easy switchbacks to reach the pass, with a completely smooth descent. That said, the track is narrow, and the edges are tricky (small ditches hidden by vegetation). Check out the start of the climb here.
https://youtu.be/vmkFncElTnw?si=XmBwrKr7zDgy3cEt
When I passed through, I didn’t find anything too challenging—I’m used to mountain tracks, but honestly, there wasn’t any real difficulty to handle. I made a short video of the southern approach, then a few easy switchbacks to reach the pass, with a completely smooth descent. That said, the track is narrow, and the edges are tricky (small ditches hidden by vegetation). Check out the start of the climb here.
https://youtu.be/vmkFncElTnw?si=XmBwrKr7zDgy3cEt
Qui boit l'eau d'une terre étrangère doit en suivre les coutumes (proverbe Mongol)
I'm not really a fan of fords.
Your video still shows a poorly maintained 4x4 track. If the elements have been raging since then...
Here are the problem areas according to the rental company:
Certain areas of our country are off-limits to traffic for safety reasons:
Kok-Airyk Pass – the road no longer exists / map error Ton Pass – the road no longer exists / map error Tosor Pass – dangerous off-road conditions Arabel Pass – closed to traffic Altyn Arashan and Karakol Gorges – driving prohibited Chatyr Kol – Kel-Suu Road – all bridges damaged Lake Kel-Suu (after the yurt camp) – the last 8 kilometers to the lake must be walked Enilchek (after the Mayda-Adyr base camp) – no bridges over deep rivers Karkara Valley (after the base camp) – no bridges over deep rivers Sary-Jaz Valley – dangerous off-road conditions KyzylOi – Toluk – dangerous off-road conditions Turasu Valley – no bridges over deep rivers
Your video still shows a poorly maintained 4x4 track. If the elements have been raging since then...
Here are the problem areas according to the rental company:
Certain areas of our country are off-limits to traffic for safety reasons:
Kok-Airyk Pass – the road no longer exists / map error Ton Pass – the road no longer exists / map error Tosor Pass – dangerous off-road conditions Arabel Pass – closed to traffic Altyn Arashan and Karakol Gorges – driving prohibited Chatyr Kol – Kel-Suu Road – all bridges damaged Lake Kel-Suu (after the yurt camp) – the last 8 kilometers to the lake must be walked Enilchek (after the Mayda-Adyr base camp) – no bridges over deep rivers Karkara Valley (after the base camp) – no bridges over deep rivers Sary-Jaz Valley – dangerous off-road conditions KyzylOi – Toluk – dangerous off-road conditions Turasu Valley – no bridges over deep rivers
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In the end, you should probably try Tajikistan instead—gorgeous trails on the high plateaus 😉
Qui boit l'eau d'une terre étrangère doit en suivre les coutumes (proverbe Mongol)
In the end, you should try Tajikistan instead—gorgeous trails on the high plateaus ;)
This is a whole other level... both in terms of trails and landscapes ;)
This is a whole other level... both in terms of trails and landscapes ;)
Hi there,
So I dove back into my travel journal (budding travelers 😉) and looking at the photos, I really think it was absolutely gorgeous.
It’s true that Kyrgyzstan isn’t exactly a foodie paradise...
We were at a livestock market in Kochkor before heading up to Song Kul.
Generally speaking, I don’t remember any particularly tough roads. The only one to avoid is the riverbed track between Kel Suu and Chatyr Lake—it’s too risky with just one vehicle.
The road between Tash Rabat and Baetov is really stunning. In Kochkor and Baetov, we lucked out with great guesthouses.
We didn’t book any accommodations in advance, but honestly, there often aren’t many options anyway.
So I dove back into my travel journal (budding travelers 😉) and looking at the photos, I really think it was absolutely gorgeous.
It’s true that Kyrgyzstan isn’t exactly a foodie paradise...
We were at a livestock market in Kochkor before heading up to Song Kul.
Generally speaking, I don’t remember any particularly tough roads. The only one to avoid is the riverbed track between Kel Suu and Chatyr Lake—it’s too risky with just one vehicle.
The road between Tash Rabat and Baetov is really stunning. In Kochkor and Baetov, we lucked out with great guesthouses.
We didn’t book any accommodations in advance, but honestly, there often aren’t many options anyway.
The southern approach in 2024.
You’ve got to know when to stop before a ford, otherwise you’ll end up walking with wet sneakers.
The hot springs at the foot of the pass—or what’s left of them—are freezing now. Top left is the track.
The overtourism so dreaded by Attila.
Priority for undisciplined tourists.
Dinner is being prepared for Attila.
You’ve got to know when to stop before a ford, otherwise you’ll end up walking with wet sneakers.
The hot springs at the foot of the pass—or what’s left of them—are freezing now. Top left is the track.
The overtourism so dreaded by Attila.
Priority for undisciplined tourists.
Dinner is being prepared for Attila.
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
No, no, Kyrgyzstan seems perfect for a first trip to the region!😛
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Generally, I don’t remember any particularly difficult tracks.
Unless the track is wet.
The only track to avoid is the one in the riverbed between Kel Suu and Chatyr Lake, as it’s too risky with just one vehicle.
The ford is long, not very deep, and you have to zigzag to find the right route. Locking the differential makes the crossing easier.
The track between Tash Rabat and Baetov is really beautiful.
This route is amazing. www.lescs.fr/IMG/mp4/baetov_site_1.mp4
Unless the track is wet.
The only track to avoid is the one in the riverbed between Kel Suu and Chatyr Lake, as it’s too risky with just one vehicle.
The ford is long, not very deep, and you have to zigzag to find the right route. Locking the differential makes the crossing easier.
The track between Tash Rabat and Baetov is really beautiful.
This route is amazing. www.lescs.fr/IMG/mp4/baetov_site_1.mp4
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
Generally, I don’t remember any particularly difficult tracks.
Perfect!
The only track to avoid is the one in the riverbed between Kel Suu and Chatyr Lake, as it’s too risky for a single vehicle.
That’s the one the rental company doesn’t want its clients to take.
We hadn’t booked accommodations in advance, but it’s true there often wasn’t much choice.
Things seem to have improved a lot! 😉
I’d already considered Kyrgyzstan a few years ago, and back then, the accommodation options were extremely limited (and very basic...).
Now, I’m finding quite a few places that seem decent or at least okay. Though when something looks really nice, the price matches. Still, it’s cheaper than a crappy room in the US...
Example1
Example2
Perfect!
The only track to avoid is the one in the riverbed between Kel Suu and Chatyr Lake, as it’s too risky for a single vehicle.
That’s the one the rental company doesn’t want its clients to take.
We hadn’t booked accommodations in advance, but it’s true there often wasn’t much choice.
Things seem to have improved a lot! 😉
I’d already considered Kyrgyzstan a few years ago, and back then, the accommodation options were extremely limited (and very basic...).
Now, I’m finding quite a few places that seem decent or at least okay. Though when something looks really nice, the price matches. Still, it’s cheaper than a crappy room in the US...
Example1
Example2
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I really hope to see yaks!
And somewhere other than on my plate!
And somewhere other than on my plate!
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For Lenin Peak.
It's better to go here than to base camp and sleep in a yurt. There are plenty of options. In 2019, only one possibility, but in 2024, several options.
The track is easy to access from Sary Moghol.
39.501408, 72.930100
You can go for a hike toward this point 39.453367, 72.927471 instead of being on the mountaineers' route. You can still cross the river via a bridge and check out the base camp, but watch out for overtourism on the summits.
You can go for a hike toward this point 39.453367, 72.927471 instead of being on the mountaineers' route. You can still cross the river via a bridge and check out the base camp, but watch out for overtourism on the summits.
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
I managed to fit in the market.
I even got 2 for the price of 1...
This would give:
2 (or one depending on flight time) nights in Bishkek
1 night in Kyzyl Oy
1 night in Suusamyr
1 night in Toktogul
1 night in Arslanbob
1 night in Osh
2 nights in Sary Tash (Tulpar Kul - Lenin Peak base camp)
1 night in Jalal-Abad
1 night in Baetov
1 night in At Bashy (via the Mels Pass and Tash Rabat)
1 night in Song Kol
1 night in Tash Bashat
1 night in Kochkor (via Jalah Bel and the end of the Bolgart Valley) Saturday market
2 nights in Karakol Sunday market
2 nights in Barskoon
For the end, two options:
1 night in Bokonbaevo
1 night in Chong Kemin
1 night in Bishkek
or
1 night in Chong Kemin
1 night in Ala Archa
1 night in Bishkek
This would give:
2 (or one depending on flight time) nights in Bishkek
1 night in Kyzyl Oy
1 night in Suusamyr
1 night in Toktogul
1 night in Arslanbob
1 night in Osh
2 nights in Sary Tash (Tulpar Kul - Lenin Peak base camp)
1 night in Jalal-Abad
1 night in Baetov
1 night in At Bashy (via the Mels Pass and Tash Rabat)
1 night in Song Kol
1 night in Tash Bashat
1 night in Kochkor (via Jalah Bel and the end of the Bolgart Valley) Saturday market
2 nights in Karakol Sunday market
2 nights in Barskoon
For the end, two options:
1 night in Bokonbaevo
1 night in Chong Kemin
1 night in Bishkek
or
1 night in Chong Kemin
1 night in Ala Archa
1 night in Bishkek
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Exemple1
The view from the dome hotel (which we saw on our last trip in 2024) is nothing like the view of Lenin Peak in the morning from the yurt camp I suggested in my previous post. You’ll see yaks in the meadow or on your plate. You can find the route description (K13) on the Overland Map app.
Correction: Our messages crossed—great that you stayed at Tupar-Kul, that’s exactly what I was suggesting above.
The view from the dome hotel (which we saw on our last trip in 2024) is nothing like the view of Lenin Peak in the morning from the yurt camp I suggested in my previous post. You’ll see yaks in the meadow or on your plate. You can find the route description (K13) on the Overland Map app.
Correction: Our messages crossed—great that you stayed at Tupar-Kul, that’s exactly what I was suggesting above.
CS
www.lescs.fr
www.lescs.fr
There’d be 2 nights in the area since this region is really remote.
One could be in a yurt, the next in comfort...
One could be in a yurt, the next in comfort...
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I meant the other side of the Suusamyr Valley toward Toktogul.
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