Trip to the Raja Ampat Islands in June (Indonesia)

Whoa, I think the end of the world is coming... My buddy just told me they have nuclear energy offices, and I did a quick Google search and found this: http://www.batan.go.id/ and this: http://bapeten.go.id/ I need to explain this a bit more when I have 5 minutes, but it’s definitely the offices of the Indonesian nuclear agency....

Anyway, with all this, one thing’s for sure. We can’t be accused of working for the Indonesian tourism office because if anyone wants to come after reading this discussion, I take my hat off to them 😏

Well, we're already here, and we're even on time at that. And don’t repeat this, but I heard Momo’s back in the homeland and might come in 2014. More seriously, these days, apart from someone who’s in love with the country and its nature, I don’t see many people for whom it’s worth traveling to this country. Expensive, lousy service, scams, bigotry—the average tourist is better off traveling elsewhere in Southeast Asia. It’s no surprise Thailand is swamped—cheaper, better organized, more honest in business. Even Malaysia isn’t more expensive than Indonesia overall. A free 3-month visa, shorter distances, and in the end, the budget is the same, if not lower when comparing East Malaysia and Indonesia. Sumatra and Java are still okay, and maybe NTB and NTT (it’s been ages since I’ve been there), but the rest of the country is super expensive and chaotic, so really, unless you’re a snorkeling or jungle fanatic, I don’t see any reason to go. Not to mention the gangs of rude young people in cities who mock or insult foreigners. Even culturally, there’s better and more diverse elsewhere...

It's not just nature lovers—it’s still a promised land for guys on the run (with high spending power, though). But I’ve already said too much; we’re getting into a public discussion here. BIIIIIIIP

Who are you talking about? Nurdin my top? Or Momo’s buddy named Fred too, who almost got Momo a free stay with the mustachioed guys?

I see we all know a specimen of the kind haha. The one I’m thinking of caused so much trouble once he was there that there’s a good chance he’s feeding the fish by now. But just in case, I won’t drop any names here. Not that he deserves it, but oh well.

Wow, you know some amazing people! But you’ve either said too much or not enough—Naps is a super curious creature, and you’ve really piqued their interest. Come on, spill the details! Or DM me if you prefer. I check my DMs for my contacts, and of course, you’re one of them, sweetheart. By the way, are you still in Big Durian, or have you moved? We’re still surrounded by second-hand DJs, but this weekend we’re heading to the mountains to get some fresh air with some friends of my partner—one of them is a freeman but cool, so I think we’ll have a blast…

Alright, I’ll send you the details if it’s just between us. A great story like we love them. But right now, I’m packing—we’re off to Thailand and coming back for Idul Fitri. I’ll have a little internet session over there while the missus gets a beauty treatment from the Thai ladies. See ya, and have fun!

Okay, I'm waiting to hear from you. Does Mrs. Wolf like Thailand? Funny, my partner does too. But Indonesia is great, right? :-) Why are you giving your money to the Thais? Do you think you get a better quality-price ratio with less hassle despite the travel cost? You're leaving at this hour? Hey, clear my doubt—did we know each other before you were Wolf?

No no, but it’s never too late to do things right. It’s true that Indonesia often gets overlooked when people see Thailand—there’s plenty to make you think twice...

Or the buddy of Momo who’s also called Fred and who almost got Momo a free stay with the mustachioed guys?

In reality, I could’ve taken down those cops, but I didn’t know my rights! (And the police chief didn’t know his own rights—or mine, for that matter...) ...

Bribing the cops? In Kalimantan? Uhhh, Momo, I dunno... Didn’t you know your rights? What rights? Since when do we have rights with the police or administration in Indonesia as a foreigner? Even as a local, for that matter—unless you’re the son of so-and-so or buddies with some high-up mustachioed guy... But I’m always ready to change my mind, so go ahead, I’m all ears. Hey Wolf, you’re in Thailand now, right? No wonder Indonesians like Thailand—it’s similar to home, and they don’t feel too out of place, but at least there aren’t those bearded, preachy DJs who think they know everything.

Bribe the cops? In Kalimantan? Uhhh, Momo, I dunno... Didn’t you know your rights? What rights? Since when do we have rights with the police or administration in Indonesia as a foreigner? Even as a local, for that matter—unless you’re the son of so-and-so or buddies with some high-up mustachioed guy... .

Well, my house arrest clearly fell under an "unlawful detention"... I could’ve reported it to the police oversight in Pontianak—a cop gave me the address and even offered to go with me, along with a neighbor who knew me well and was furious about the whole thing. Those days of the little bribe they extort while yelling at you are over... As long as you haven’t broken the law, of course, because then it’s still a nightmare...

Yeah, because you were buddies with some mustachioed guy in the square—see what I wrote above. But even if you had filed a complaint, I don’t know if it would’ve gone far. Don’t forget that, like it or not, you’re a *bule* :-). And even for locals, you know how things work in this country: "Oh yes, yes, we’ll take care of it, of course, don’t worry!" And? And nothing—just empty words, or what my Indonesian textbook called: "polite phrases meant to put the other person at ease, but not to be taken literally."... Oh, a friend sent me this article—it talks about the realities of line 6. It’s in English, so you’ll need to read that poor primitive dialect, but despite that, it’s interesting. It covers topics we often discuss, either privately or on this forum, but the guy goes into detail—something we don’t do here. Really insightful for anyone who doesn’t know this country. Wolf will probably say we’re badmouthing the local tourism office, but whatever... http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/17/take-a-train-in-jakarta/

I quite agree, the situation is deteriorating in Indonesia (especially NTT and NTB) (security, organization, mafias, corruption). Bali isn’t any better off and is literally overrun with disrespectful tourists. I saw a debate on TV last night about the "Islamic police" (unofficial, arbitrary parallel police forces not officially recognized by the state) that are popping up everywhere. The debate was heated because they’re highlighting the government’s incompetence (politicians, police, humanitarian organizations, etc.) in dealing with this phenomenon.

Here are a few interesting links on the "penal" situation for tourists in Indonesia: http://catchup.ninemsn.com.au/balithedarksideofparadise/2013/8693430/bali-the-dark-side-of-paradise

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/article/-/18049168/death-row-confessions/ http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/top/news-com-au/inside-the-hellhole-of-a-bali-prison/938205

In my opinion, the situation is far from deteriorating—in fact, quite the opposite. Private militias have long flourished and faded in Indonesia. They always thrive on the alleged inability of public authorities to address various issues more or less covered by the penal code. What’s interesting is observing the population’s reactions toward them, shifting from indifferent sympathy to outrage and then to violent opposition, as happened in Lombok some time ago and very recently in Central Java, where residents of a town violently opposed Islamist groups attempting a *sweeping* operation. Moreover, President SBY’s firm stance—widely praised across the country—against these *ormas* (organizations that defy legality) and his first-ever mention of the FPI in directives to the Kapolri is a real green light for dissolving this group and a stern warning to all others accustomed to breaking the law with impunity. This new governmental stance is a relief for many police officers who were previously disheartened by the government’s hesitant or silent response to these groups’ abuses. All of this is moving in the right direction, and the majority of Indonesians, who are republican at heart, are starting to reject these parallel policing organizations—so this isn’t a deterioration. Right?

I agree that things have calmed down in Indonesia (you should’ve seen the chaos right after Suharto’s fall!!! Violence in Aceh, Poso, Maluku, Kalimantan, Banyuwangi, etc.). However, this isn’t the first time SBY has threatened to dissolve the FPI. Every time, it’s the same thing: just words, nothing more… The irony, considering he’s a former military man and everyone knows about the rivalries between the army and the bearded guys. That said, I hope the future proves me wrong!

Well, today things heated up for them, and for once I was glad that damn TV was on. There was a segment about how people are fed up seeing ormas taking justice into their own hands, and then the FPI monkeys facing off with more evolved guys. The more evolved ones talked about the FPI's excesses, the FPI leader said it wasn't true and there was no proof, with obvious bad faith. Bad luck for him—it looked like the move had been prepared, but it's clear the monkeys are predictable—at his words, they showed him a video proving exactly what he denied. The head monkey denied it, saying the video was tampered with. But he wasn’t credible; it was blatantly obvious, and even though he kept going with his mouth full of lies, he’d lost control and discredited himself in everyone’s eyes. A bit earlier, a high-ranking official had been interviewed, and he was really worked up against the FPI. Others also said the FPI hadn’t respected the president. I’ll skip the details, but now there are only two options: 1—the tension dies down in a few days once the victims are buried, and the FPI can keep up its nonsense; 2—the government realizes these monkeys have gotten too big for their boots—or in other words, that the puppet wants to be independent from its creator—and that in the long run, it could become a threat, so they ban the Indonesian frontists. Time will tell, but I agree with Lombokfan—things are boiling over in the country. Though it’s been boiling for years, and it’s not any hotter in 2013 than it was in, say, 2008. We’ll just have to see when, or if, it’s going to explode...

hello Naps

I found this on the Jakarta Post: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/07/22/central-java-muslim-clerics-condemn-fpi-clashes-with-locals.html

My girlfriend lives there, in Sukoharjo (a few kilometers from Purwokerto at the foot of Mount Slamet), where I ran into a group of Pemuda Pancasila thugs.

I read that these fascists killed a young woman. They just keep poisoning Indonesian society, but successive governments bear a large part of the responsibility by letting them operate freely. They exploit the idleness and ignorance of a marginalized part of the population, and they have money to recruit the unemployed.

Yeah, I was in Java when people stood up to them and kicked them out of a meeting they were trying to crash.

another one it’s reacting http://www.thejakartapost.com/...hes-with-locals.html

another more detailed one that also points out the police’s inaction http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/police-vow-crackdown-as-fpi-apologizes/

let’s hope it doesn’t go unanswered.

Yes, on one hand, the FPI gets criticized, but on the other, the cops have never done anything to stop them from carrying out their raids. The big problem is that there are politicians pulling the FPI's strings, because first, it channels the violence of certain groups (as long as they're attacking Christians or so-called "bad" Muslims, they won't go after the government and the corruption that are really responsible for the country's unrest), and second, it keeps the people in check through fear and religion/the "opium of the people." Because the FPI is nothing more than a militia of losers who play at being good Muslims and defenders of Islam, but carefully avoid fixing what *really* needs to be fixed in Indonesia. But now it seems like they want to break free from their masters, and they’ve outright insulted the president. Unfortunately, I fear this won’t go far—the president didn’t even react to the insult, whereas if it had come from someone else, it wouldn’t have been the same. It’s very possible all of this will fade into the oblivion of the big post-Ramadan celebrations...

2-the government understands that these monkeys have gotten too big for their boots, or in other words, that the puppet wants to be independent from its creator, which in the long run could pose a threat to it, and issues the ban on Indonesian Frontists. ...

You missed some episodes, Naps: the government has been in the FPI’s crosshairs for a while, but it’s not easy to dissolve those lunatics... Back in the BBM era, when they wanted to raise prices in 2012, the FPI was already very critical of SBY’s government, even calling for its dissolution over corruption! Of course, at that time, you were goofing around on beaches in India!! And look at the Lady Gaga affair: their (the FPI’s) shows of force were terrifying! The question is whether, in the event of a dissolution, law enforcement is ready—or willing—to crack down hard on the protests that will follow. If they just use a few tear gas canisters, they’ll be at it for a while!

PS/ The thread about the scammer in Flores just got censored because of some huge fascist a**hole who doesn’t get that for those who fight extremists here, the FN, identitarians, and other far-right movements all belong in the same bag (one weighted with big rocks and thrown into the sea)

Ah, India—yeah, we really loved it there, far from all those mustachioed and bearded idiots... But we still kept up with the news, like that whole Lady Whatever thing—we thought it was a shame that the FPI morons (I won’t call them monkeys anymore, it’s not fair to actual monkeys, who are better than them) could just impose their views like that. That said, it’s obvious that if they get dissolved, they’ll take it badly and try to cause chaos, but don’t tell me the army wouldn’t be happy to open fire and rack up a body count? They’d just be waiting for the green light from that obese president, and then—boom, let’s take down the FPI!! On the other hand, I didn’t know their independence moves against their puppet master had already surfaced during last year’s BBM affair, but either way, it backs up what I was saying: the government needs to put its foot down. Of course, there’s no guarantee they’ll do it right, but how many of those FPI hotheads are there, really? They’re bitter and stubborn, sure, but they’re just a handful—or two at most. What happened with that Flores scammer thread? And how do you know it was a fascist who got it censored? That post had already faded into obscurity for a while, right?

You're underestimating the FPI—they're numerous, and in some cities they have support. For example, in Pontianak, their leader is a notable figure. So when there were clashes with the Dayaks, you also had all the Malay gangsters on the streets. Even the guys from the villages, who came down in large numbers and armed (the kind you saw at that chaotic football match near Madame's place—not exactly weaklings), were outmatched...

As for the military, the ties between the armed forces and the FPI might be closer than we think. According to my soldier buddies from the Moluccas or NTT, there are even Christian members of the FPI!!!!!!!!! Don’t forget that at its core, the FPI is a gang—Islamism is just an excuse. Not so long ago, you could pay them to leave your brothel alone during Ramadan. This was exposed publicly, and they cleaned up their act around late 2011, if I remember correctly.

Now, about those Christian bearded guys—that’s something to verify. But my buddy Chris is *very* well-informed about all this (he’s one of those soldiers who rents out his muscle to gangs outside of work hours). What *has* been confirmed multiple times, though, is that the FPI recruits from criminals...

And those days of shooting into crowds in Indonesia are over. Look—every time there are a few deaths, even in some remote area, it causes a scandal. If there were protests, they’d happen under the spotlight. I can’t see the government ordering a massacre! Further proof: the president’s inaction has made him a laughingstock for a long time. He contradicts himself in his statements instead of taking action...

The only ones who’d happily take down the bearded guys are the cowboys from Densus 88!

But let’s hope this well-worn scenario ends soon and that I’m wrong!

Still, I wonder if the government realizes just how much it's putting itself at risk through its inaction, because the country's fragile unity is ultimately threatened. For now, they're playing it cool in Papua, but if all the non-Muslim communities decide they've had enough, that's a huge territory to control. Can you imagine if Papua, Kalimantan, North Sulawesi, Maluku, etc., decide the republican contract has been broken? It could turn into quite the mess... Those bearded Javanese would look pretty foolish on their overpopulated island with their dairy cows turning their backs on them. And then, the peaceful Muslims who've been keeping quiet would know exactly who to blame.

Oh, I know they have support, but still—if there were real political will, it wouldn’t be hard to stop them. All it takes is to paint them as terrorists, stir up a scandal or two, run a good media campaign, and then bring in the army. The Indonesian thugs are used to it—between East Timor, Aceh, and Papua, they’re even experts. But according to my wife, the FPI has high-level political backing because, as she says, there are people in the government funding them. You see, Wiranto is a scumbag and he’s wanted by the international tribunal for crimes against humanity, but sometimes I think if he won the elections next year, it might actually do the country some good—a strongman who’ll crack down. It’s tough to talk like this, and tough to admit that this kind of guy is what the country needs, but when you compare him to that oaf SBY, you start to think it might be the only solution. Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I realize SBY won’t do anything—he’s a loser... But you didn’t answer my question about Flores... @Wolf: Back during the religious war in the Moluccas, the bearded guys sent the ancestor of the FPI, the Laskar Jihad, to attack Christians. Because the problem is that in Java, there are 120 million people, and even if most are peaceful, statistically, that still leaves a lot of idiots—and definitely more than in the Moluccas or Papua (Papuans are only 3 million). That’s actually how they invaded the Moluccas and forced them to join their banana republic back in the days of that other moron, Sukarno...

hi

Yeah, I totally agree with you—the government’s playing with fire by acting like reckless apprentices. The balance is fragile. Naps: Berta’s right, I’m convinced they’ve got high-level backing to do what they’ve been doing with total impunity for a while now. They feel untouchable. If people hadn’t pushed back because they’re finally fed up with these lunatics, it would’ve been swept under the rug.

Christian FPI! I’m sure there are extremists among them, but how do they react when others burn churches like what happened in Bekasi... Maybe a nice fat sum helps smooth things over...

good night

Hey Éric. Yeah, Indonesia is a completely artificial creation and only exists because people are willing to go along with it. Things have already seriously deteriorated, and everyone’s fighting for their own piece of the pie without caring about the common good—normal with a corrupt government that confuses democracy with the dictatorship of the majority. If there were rebellions everywhere, it wouldn’t be easy to suppress everyone. Times have changed—anyone can film something on their phone and share it online, and the sleight-of-hand of the so-called democracy-fighting executioners is starting to wear thin.

There's no Indonesia, Wolfy! There's Javanesia, which that clever little Soekarno had the intelligence to call Indonesia, just to sugar-coat it and make people forget that it's Java grabbing the other islands. Then some good propaganda, anthems memorized from school (they'd be better off learning what a school is supposed to teach, but hey, you can't do everything), a good brainwashing, and voilà... Do you know the lyrics of the national anthem? And the principles of Pancasila? The Papuans call it *panca salah*, or as they say: *orang indonesia bilang A, buat B. Yang salah dibenarkan, yang benar disalahkan.* This country is artificial, and it might well split one day. Besides, the bigwigs in Jakarta are terrified it'll happen, but for now, it's not on the horizon. However, if it did happen, I don’t know how they’d manage to become the world’s number 6 (source: Lolo and Momo)...

Still, I wonder if the government realizes just how much it’s putting itself at risk with its inaction—because in the long run, it’s the country’s fragile unity that’s threatened.

Totally!!! In Pontianak back in 2012, things nearly got really ugly! The Dayaks had come down into the city, and on their protest route, they were throwing stones at Muslim schools, etc. Luckily, they didn’t go as far as burning a mosque—otherwise, we’d have had a replay of the Moluccas!! At that level! No one, except the people there who were terrified, seemed to notice! Over there, the FPI is horrendous: for Chinese New Year, those idiots had plastered posters all over Singkawang (the first city for Indonesians of Chinese origin) reminding Muslims that attending the festivities was a sin (talk about tact—I can just imagine the reverse, "Christians, don’t attend or take part in Eid celebrations!"—it’d be war!). Some people had torn them down, the FPI came back at it, and the army had to step in 🏴‍☠️ A few weeks before all that, SBY’s dad had literally declared, "Next time the FPI makes headlines, I’ll dissolve them!!" ... A year and a half later (and how many more incidents later), still nothing!!!!!! What a total wimp—this guy’s useless, leading a party that’s ultra-corrupt !

The Papuans call it *panca salah*, or as they say: orang indonesia bilang A, buat B. Yang salah dibenarkan, yang benar disalahkan. )...

It sounds like the lyrics from the band MARJINAL (from Jakarta) about TV: "yg pinter dibodohi, yg bodoh dibudayakan"!! ("what’s smart is made to look stupid, what’s stupid is turned into culture!" ... Well said! !

Did you see that SBY went to New York a few weeks ago to receive an award for his work promoting religious diversity?🏴‍☠️ And why not the Nobel Peace Prize while we're at it.

the guys who gave it that award are really off the mark!!

Wow, Obama really got that Nobel Peace Prize, despite the two wars he was waging and his support for Israel, no matter what he said. SBY’s a total pushover—back in Pak Harto’s day, stuff like this wouldn’t have happened. Those FPI idiots would’ve been torched with flamethrowers. And in ’98 when he stepped down, all the bearded troublemakers who’d been hiding out in Malaysia came back in a flash. I used to criticize Suharto a lot because, back then, I had my stupid Western biases about democracy and all that, but I’ve come to realize that’s the kind of leader these countries need. That’s why I’m voting for Wiranto next year—lol. Right now, you see posters and stickers everywhere with Suharto’s face and him saying: *piye kabare? Enak zaman ku, to?* (How’s it going? Things were better in my time, right?) It’s sad, because he wasn’t a democrat, but he was still the best president they’ve ever had. Sure, he was corrupt, but so were the ones who came after him—the difference is, under his rule, the country ran smoothly...

Let’s just say that for a democracy to be valid, you first need an education system that holds up—otherwise, at best, it’s a dictatorship with a carnival mask, and at worst, a "dumbocracy" like the one we’ve got... But in the current state of things, a general respected by his troops could actually be progress. Even if under Harto, Indonesians suffered less, the body count is still way too high to miss him—just look at the purge of leftists when he took power. Next to him, even Pinochet looks like a choirboy.

It's true that Harto wasn't exactly a saint, but he was already out of the picture by the time of the big massacres in Timor. And let's be real—those who followed him are just the same: Aceh, Papua, it's all burning, looting, raping, and killing. Not exactly saints either.

Yeah, Indonesia still isn’t a democracy. They make people think they are, but all they can do is change the face of the top crook every five years—nothing more.

It’s not just a proper education system they need, but also healthcare, infrastructure, and so on.

That won’t happen anytime soon, and the problem is that even though the country still isn’t a democracy, the post-Suharto governments have all been pushovers when it comes to the bearded extremists. At least Suharto kept them in check.

If there had been any social progress, we could’ve said the extremists were the lesser evil, but nope—no progress at all.

So, dictatorship for dictatorship, corruption for corruption, poverty for poverty, no public services for no public services, human rights violations for human rights violations—might as well have a government that cracks down on the extremists and troublemakers.

According to my pro contact (Suharto’s son-in-law), he’s better than Wiranto. He’s also got military ties but is tougher, more effective, and has some strong-arm actions under his belt. According to her, he’d have the guts to clean up the mess left by the FPI and their affiliates...

Long live Indonesia—just 8 more days until Ramadan is over, and I think this year I’ll celebrate its end like they do, but not for the same reasons!!!

Are the Raja Ampat Islands doable in November? Are they just about diving, or can you also go hiking? Thanks

November—who knows, maybe it’ll rain, maybe it won’t... You *can* hike, but you’ve gotta know what you’re doing. Because nothing’s organized, and if you run into trouble, don’t count on the authorities or anyone else to help you. You need your own gear, the ability to plan this kind of trip, speak at least some Indonesian, etc. A buddy of mine who lives in the area and is super experienced with this stuff nearly died from a severe malaria attack in the jungle of one of the archipelago’s big islands just two months ago. Luckily, he had meds, a satellite phone, and money—that’s what saved him. But barely, because even with all that, he came *this* close to kicking the bucket. So, if you’re used to hiking in general and in this kind of humid environment in particular (this "green hell" as the pros call it), if you know about malaria and how to treat it, if you’ve got the right gear, and if you’re in good physical and mental shape, then the answer is yes. Otherwise, well… it’s not a yes. :-)

We’re not gonna debate this for 10 years (nobody cares, and I’m pretty sure we’re just annoying everyone by going off-topic like this!!), but I won’t follow you in your apology for the horrible Suharto: too many massacres, too many horrors (’99 in Timor was his right-hand man Habibie and, above all, the culmination of his ultra-nationalist system)... Not all Indonesians need a good beating—you’ve got plenty of sensible, honest, enlightened people (especially in Yogya, where you are right now). It’s them we should be listening to, not the nationalists in khaki or, worse, the idiots on TV...

It’s clear they need (in my humble opinion) a strong leader (man or woman) to enforce the rules and really fight corruption. It’s true that change won’t happen anytime soon (unfortunately), but that’s no reason to wish for the return (or to miss) a military dictator as brutal as the one who inspired the Burmese regime and was the founding father of the "politik suap" (corruption system) and, more generally, everything that’s wrong in Indonesia today (like the rather weak education system) 🤪...

And you can’t compare the current political atmosphere to the one under Suharto! Criticizing Indonesia’s current democracy is fine, but come back to France for a bit—you’ll put things in perspective... ...

According to my pro source (Suharto’s son-in-law), he’s better than Wiranto. He also has ties with the military, but he’s tougher, just better overall. He’s got some strong-arm actions under his belt, and according to her, he’d have the guts to clean up the mess left by the FPI and their affiliates... !!!

Yeah, he’s got one of his guys in place: Jokowi, the super likable (no irony here—the guy’s even a heavy metal fan!!) governor of Jakarta who’s repeatedly stood up to the bearded extremists and the bigwigs, and fought corruption really effectively when he was mayor of Solo/Surakarta...

hey everyone

"Did you see that SBY a few weeks ago went to New York to receive an award for his work promoting religious diversity?🏴‍☠️ Why not the Nobel Peace Prize while we're at it."

yeah, it's just staggering. Just recently, Shia refugees (who have been refugees since July 2012 after fleeing their villages in Madura, attacked by a mob of religious fanatics—homes destroyed and burned, murders) the police did nothing to protect them. As for the government of religious diversity (sic), the only thing they told them was that if they wanted to return to their villages in Sampang (Madura Island), they had to convert to Sunnism.

I hope the new government and the one Fred and Naps are talking about will take steps to protect all these minorities, otherwise things are going to flare up because in the medium term, they’ll be outflanked by these gangs

for sure!!! to prepare a trip around here, none of these discussions interest anyone...........and they don’t bring anything concrete. I didn’t think this kind of forum was for that—what a shame

Momo, I'm the one who's not following you here. You're gonna tell me that in terms of human rights there's been a change in the post-Suharto era? Nope, there hasn't been. Has there been less corruption? Nope, not that either. Did Suharto create the corruption system? No, it was Sukarno who created it, and the Dutch before him. Is SBY nicer than Suharto? My eye, he also has blood on his hands, and not just a little—he took part in the genocide in East Timor when he was in the army. That genocide, by the way, was in '99, and Suharto was already out of the picture. And the current genocide in Papua, who's orchestrating that? Should we let the moderates have a voice? Because you think the bearded guys are gonna let them speak? Look at what's happening in Egypt and Tunisia... Plus, even if a majority of people don’t agree with these flaws, the problem is that in Indonesia there’s no mobilization—everyone couldn’t care less about everyone else. The only chance the moderates have to be heard is if they organize and gain popular support, but it doesn’t seem to be heading that way. So between the Suharto era and the post-Suharto era, the only difference I see is that the bearded guys now have a public presence and are causing trouble. Other than that, nothing’s changed—neither in terms of human rights (and let’s not even talk about women’s rights, children’s rights, the rights of Indonesian Chinese, or worse, the rights of foreigners), nor corruption, nor anything else. You’re annoying people, you say? Well, if they’re not happy, they can just not read it, like Mr. Toulouse, who instead of saying thanks after I took the time to answer his oh-so-interesting question about whether you can hike on an island, comes here to lecture. On this forum, there are tons of discussions that don’t interest me—the weather in Thailand or Bali, stories about Thai prostitutes in Pattaya, etc.—and I don’t read them, that’s all. That said, I’m sure there are plenty of people who are still interested in our discussion because it lets them learn things about the darker side of Indonesia that they won’t read in their Lonely Planet, and if this discussion were really so out of place, the mods would’ve buried it a long time ago. And you, Toulouse, who are you to say what should and shouldn’t be on this forum? If you’re not interested in the political, social, cultural, and religious considerations of a country, that’s your right. If all you care about is your own trip, that’s your right too. But it’s also our right to have other interests—this forum doesn’t revolve around you and your desires. Tolerance, you’ve got us there...

Sorry if I’m annoying you, Toulouse, but at the same time, look at how old this post is. We can’t exactly say we’re hijacking breaking news. No

I wasn’t actually defending Suharto, I just meant he was the best president they’ve had—but that doesn’t mean he was good. He was the least bad of the bunch, or as the Brits say: the best of a bad bunch! As for the people who are supposed to be educated in Indonesia, sadly I see very few, even in Jogja. Brainwashing starts from early childhood—salute the flag here, fear God there—it leaves its mark. The only ones who are somewhat educated are those with money who’ve seen what’s going on outside the country, but they’re not the majority... There’s the new generation, though—some are pretty aware, but they’re a minority of young people, mostly Javanese, who’ve had some schooling. And they don’t dare speak up in front of their parents about things like religious schizophrenia and hypocrisy (I know what I’m talking about, and you know why, but let’s avoid personal stuff on this forum). In the rest of the country, it’s a disaster: *hello mister punya banyak uang kontol besar, islam agama paling mulia bla bla!!!*

Thanks

Gus Dur was a pretty decent guy who still tried to lift his country up. He just lacked a bit of firmness and had no control over the army. Otherwise, keep an eye on Jokowi... everyone in JKT says he's "memang baik" (truly good), and they're all afraid he'll run for president and give up his position as governor of Jakarta.

Yeah, I dunno, but don’t expect miracles either when you see the state of Jakarta. Anyway, as long as he keeps the bearded guys in check, it’s all good... Here’s an article Mekong sent me. It’s in English, unfortunately, and you’ll need to be able to stomach reading that awful dialect with no depth, but it’s really informative (the article, not the English). *Racism and sexual violence in Indonesia*—just a heads-up, it’s pretty heavy, especially since it only describes the harsh reality of this so-called wonderful country: http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/05/10/racism-and-sexual-violence-in-indonesia/

Personally, I find this discussion fascinating. Especially since it's led by people who know Indonesia really well and give us a behind-the-scenes look through this in-depth conversation. Even if the viewpoints remain subjective and often contradictory, they shed light on the country in a different way. It offers a perspective that might not be very cheerful about the destination, but who said we should only talk about things that make us dream? Or that we shouldn’t criticize anything if we’re not at home? Being clear-eyed doesn’t stop you from traveling...

For example, I can mention Alexandra David-Néel—a great traveler and a deeply insightful person, yet extremely critical.

To find out if you can have a picnic in Raja Ampat in November, you can check here

thanks for the info