Why do we always think that "ELSEWHERE" is better than our own country?
FR

Translated into English.

CH Chnoupi Globetrotter ·
The worst is when a foreigner tells us the truth about our country.

But first, the truth has to be true... or how do we know if it’s true! And then, for me, my country is here; I have a nationality I didn’t choose but keep, for lack of the courage to be an "apostate of all nationalities."
"Celui qui a atteint son but a manqué tout le reste"
TE Temur Regular ·
Hi Jean Claude, That vaguely rings a bell about Talleyrand—I think someone mentioned it to me before...

Best regards...
Temur du pays de Tamerlan!
CH Chnoupi Globetrotter ·
The worst is when a foreigner tells us the truth about our country.

But the truth must actually be true... or how do we know if it is? And then, for me, my country is here; I have a nationality I didn’t choose but keep, for lack of the courage to be an "apostate of all nationalities."

Clarification: when I say my country is here, I mean wherever I am—Brittany, Uzbekistan, the USA (no, I don’t go there since I refuse to visit Israel and a few other powerfully corrupt countries), Liechtenstein, Puglia in the heel of Italy, France (including overseas territories), Saint-Louis-du-Ha!-Ha! (in Canada), Burlesque or Condom, Morocco...
"Celui qui a atteint son but a manqué tout le reste"
VI Vietalier Regular ·
Talleyrand = a clever but extremely twisted mind who, as I’ve already told you, managed to serve his own interests while serving those he worked for—right up to Napoleon I, who said to him: ... You’re shit in a silk stocking! ... Have a good evening, Temur, and see you soon. — Vietalier.
Cela dépend de l'humeur du moment et va de Jean-Claude à Viet à lier.
CH Chnoupi Globetrotter ·
Would Napo Léon have been as rude as Nicolaïev Sarko-Premier?
"Celui qui a atteint son but a manqué tout le reste"
AN Antlia Veteran ·
No, it's Cambronne! When the British general addressed the surrounded Old Guard at Waterloo with "Brave Frenchmen, surrender!", he replied "Piss off, you idiot".
"Si vous pensez que l'aventure est dangereuse, je vous propose d'essayer la routine... elle est mortelle." Paolo Coelho
CH Chnoupi Globetrotter ·
Damn! Did I get it wrong?
"Celui qui a atteint son but a manqué tout le reste"
VI Vietalier Regular ·
Yes, my dear Chnoupi! Napoleon’s retort to Talleyrand is historic and authentic; now, crude, I don’t know, but old Nabulione really let loose at his minister with full intent and good reason. Indeed, the Lame Devil—and I’m being crude too—was truly rotten to the core and had neither faith* nor honor! Best regards, — Vietalier. * : let’s recall that Talleyrand was also the Bishop of Autun between 1788 and 1791... which didn’t stop him, as a fine representative of the high clergy, from thoroughly enjoying the so-called weaker sex! ... There, he was right!!!!! No?
Cela dépend de l'humeur du moment et va de Jean-Claude à Viet à lier.
CH Chnoupi Globetrotter ·
I don’t doubt your knowledge of history, and I’m terrible at it—except when it comes to everyday life. The lives of "great men" don’t interest me. Actually, it’s interesting to note that these so-called great men are often short in stature (Napo, Sarko, Hollande are well-known examples).

Some gossips claim that Corsicans are short because they were told, "When you grow up, you’ll go to work." 😏
"Celui qui a atteint son but a manqué tout le reste"
VI Vietalier Regular ·
As for Hollande, you can forget about him having the stature of a great man—figuratively speaking, and in pretty much any other domain, he’s a total zero. H I.

By the way, even if you were Corsican yourself, your reverse humor about Corsicans and work would show a healthy mindset, free of grumpiness or touchiness, which is all good and puts you in the "worth hanging out with" category. Note that I’m saying this without knowing if *I’m* even worth hanging out with!

And for a laugh, here’s a little bar joke: What’s the difference between the numbers 51 and 69? Answer: Only 51 smells like ANISE! The other one doesn’t quite have the same spelling or scent! ... I did specify it was a bar joke, so it’s lowbrow but not mean-spirited.

Pace e salute; warm regards from Vietalier.
Cela dépend de l'humeur du moment et va de Jean-Claude à Viet à lier.
SY Sygalissie ·
As soon as I return to France, I tell myself, "it's better elsewhere." Wherever we’ve been, I feel a kind of lightness in living—less restriction, less pressure, less sadness—and I catch myself dreaming of somewhere else, of going to live somewhere else, a simpler life, more authentic, with colors, color everywhere, markets, clothes, homes, etc.!!! Meeting souls, real people, gentle and kind, and letting go completely of all this modernism, this technological excess, the indifference toward others, the confinement, the racism against the elderly in France, against the poor, the weak, the beautiful, etc... etc... fleeing the news, politics, jealousy, meanness, stupidity, greed. And in my moments of clarity, I tell myself that ultimately, there are pros and cons in every country, every city, and that the best of all worlds isn’t down here, perhaps. But also that you have to know how to COME BACK to better LEAVE again—but still...!!! IS IT BETTER ELSEWHERE?😏😏😏

It’s funny because I just got back from Budapest and had the same thought. Every time I return from a country, I don’t really think it’s better elsewhere because it depends on the country visited, and on the contrary, you can tell yourself that in France, we’re lucky, that we’re well off compared to others, and that our country is beautiful. But I find the French (sorry, my fellow countrymen) more and more annoying every time I come back from a trip: stressed, not nice, arrogant, sad. It’s been happening to me lately, no matter which country I visit. You don’t need to go far to realize that the people in some countries (even European ones) seem happier, less stressed. Is it being on vacation that makes us think people are nicer elsewhere? That’s possible! In any case, you notice it when you arrive in a country where you’re greeted with a cheerful "hello" in the local language, and then returning to France, the icy welcome—or even the lack of welcome—at the airport brings you back to our sad reality. I’m not sure the French are really that nice to tourists, convinced they live in the most beautiful country in the world. Actually, every country has its own beauties, whether in the people, the landscapes, or the culture. And as Jupitéria said, it’s good to Come Back to better Leave again.
JU Jupiteria ·
Hello. And I still haven’t changed my mind......except that the idea of leaving for abroad is haunting my mind even more now! Oh, the most beautiful country in the world, France, well, not for me either. That would be a pretty narrow view of the world’s beauty. French-style chauvinism, I guess! It’s hard to make people understand that you can’t worship France, love it, and still want to stay—another odd and strangely limited perspective! A country rich in history, with undeniable heritage and cultural treasures, I’ll admit, and one that would do well to keep us hooked just like that! But no! I still dream of that *elsewhere*, and I fully intend to leave this arrogant one in its delusion of perfection.....because there’s so much to say about that too! Goodbye grayness and gloomy faces, hello to you, foreign lands, in your bright attire that makes life so simple and sweet.
CH Chnoupi Globetrotter ·
When you're somewhere else, here will be somewhere else too!
"Celui qui a atteint son but a manqué tout le reste"
MA Mariecurry Globetrotter ·
Oh no! I still dream of that elsewhere and I fully intend to leave the arrogant one in its delusion of perfection... because there’s so much to say about that too! Goodbye gloom and long faces, hello to you, stranger, in your radiant light that makes life so simple and sweet.

A simple and sweet life because you’ll arrive from France with your French passport and money earned in France. Be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you. 😉
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
I’m responding to the original question in the thread:

For me, it’s not necessarily better elsewhere—it’s just different. That difference might suit us better, without it being "better" overall, just more tailored to who we are.

Plus, it depends on the "elsewhere." In really poor countries, I don’t think it’s better (it doesn’t exactly inspire me). I can recognize the good things we have in France, and I don’t assume it’s better next door. Actually, I’d even say the world is a bit messed up everywhere (yes, I know—I’m such a positive person 😉)—just not in the same ways. Some things are better, others not so much. It’s up to each of us to find the place that’s the *least* messed up for us, the one that fits us best, and that’s not always easy! You really have to know yourself, which ties into the idea of traveling within yourself that I read in this thread. I think traveling helps us get to know ourselves better...

Personally, some "elsewheres" appeal to me more than others, but that doesn’t mean they’re better—just that *I* might feel more at home there.

I’d love to try living in a country that attracts me for a while, just to test it out and, in a way, take another journey into my deeper self...
http://www.lasourisglobe-trotteuse.fr/

Des milliers de photos et plein de conseils d'une souris pour voyager low-cost en Europe et hors des sentiers battus
HE Henridusud Globetrotter ·
Hello there, stranger in your suit of light that makes life so simple and sweet.

Uh, how to put this—I’m afraid you might be in for some disappointment if you really believe what you wrote....
"Le touriste apparait comme le principal agent de diffusion du mépris anti touristique. Plus le touriste se voit en miroir de l'autre, plus il le déteste".

JEAN DIDIER URBAIN "L'idiot du voyage"
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Hello,

Yes, no doubt.

Personally, I see several reasons for this tendency—which I experience and feel myself—to find the grass greener elsewhere. I’ll try to put it simply in a few words.

First, when I’m in a foreign country, I don’t feel accountable for what happens or is said there. It’s very comfortable. You might be annoyed by a practice, a way of doing things, or political choices, but at least you can observe them calmly from a distance, without feeling involuntarily associated with them. Being a foreigner is restful—it spares you from feeling responsible for something you disapprove of, saves face, and prevents shame. I love that.

Then, there are undoubtedly societal models, types of social relationships, and attitudes toward rules, laws, and the state that suit each of us more or less. For example, I struggle a lot with how the French typically relate to rules and laws. I’m very respectful of them, but I realize that in France, this isn’t the right way to act or live if you want to get by well. The rules are made *not* to be respected, and benchmarks are hard to find and assess. This applies to tax rules, for instance—those who follow them are the useful idiots, the losers in a game played by different rules. This feeling of not having the "user manual" for France, of being in perpetual discomfort due to my temperament—more liberal, poorly accepting of state-imposed moral norms, and believing they should be a matter of religion—also contributes to making the grass elsewhere seem decidedly greener.

Michel

I’m responding to the original question in the thread:

For me, it’s not necessarily better elsewhere—it’s different. That difference might suit us better without being "better," just more adapted to who we are.

It also depends on the "elsewhere." In truly poor countries, I don’t think it’s better (well, it doesn’t make me dream). I can recognize the good things we have in France, and I don’t imagine it’s better next door. In fact, I’d even say the world is a bit rotten everywhere (yes, I know, I’m such a positive person 😉)—just not in the same ways. Some things are better, others worse. It’s up to each of us to find the place that’s the *least* "rotten" for them, the one that fits them best, and that’s not always easy! You have to know yourself well, which ties back to the idea of traveling within yourself that I read in this thread. I think traveling helps you get to know yourself better...

For me, some "elsewheres" appeal to me more than others, not because they’re better, but because I might feel better there.

I’d love to try living in a country that attracts me for a while, to test it out and, in doing so, take another journey into my deeper self...
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
It comes back to what I was saying—that "elsewhere" suits you better!

But I’m the same in many ways. While I know we have a beautiful country with plenty of perks, France isn’t where I feel my best, and I love escaping it for all sorts of reasons (which I won’t get into here since it’s not really the topic, and I don’t want to spark a debate about France). I don’t necessarily see the grass as greener elsewhere in every way, but in some ways, yes, and there are countries where I feel more at ease, more like myself, etc.

Like you, I also enjoy the status of being a foreigner, a traveler, observing things and people. But even in France, I don’t always feel "integrated" and often observe things and people—just less so than elsewhere.

That said, there are places where I feel better, but I’m well aware that being on vacation in a country and living there are two very different things, so I don’t idealize life elsewhere.
http://www.lasourisglobe-trotteuse.fr/

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TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Yes, there are many places in France where I feel like I’m absolutely abroad, actually... The south, where I hardly ever go, and... Le Mans, for reasons I can’t explain. 🙂 Still, the state’s centralism forces us to carry this misunderstanding and sense of otherness. Sometimes, it’s a burden.

Michel

But even in France, I don’t necessarily feel "integrated" and I often observe things and people, even if less so than elsewhere.
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
No, but I was talking about daily life, actually!

I don’t travel much in France, in the end.
http://www.lasourisglobe-trotteuse.fr/

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TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
I was also talking about everyday life. Sometimes France is just a "souf-France" (a play on words meaning a suffering France).

Michel

No, but I was actually talking about everyday life! I don’t travel much in France, in the end.
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
😎

What I meant was that I don’t necessarily feel like a "stranger" in another region, even if that word isn’t quite right.
http://www.lasourisglobe-trotteuse.fr/

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TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
I don’t quite get it, but we’ll talk about it someday in a PM. 🙂 My relationship with France is complicated, I know that well.

Michel
GE Geli Veteran ·
Hello,

First off, it’s only human, especially since we often decide to travel in reaction to a tough situation we’re going through at home. Plus, we usually go on "vacation," a break to unwind, so of course... it seems better, not to say wonderful.

As a result, we forget that daily life exists everywhere, and for locals or long-term residents, life’s problems are pretty much the same as for the rest of us.

So, is it really better elsewhere? Not necessarily. But depending on our personal needs, it’s possible to find opportunities in one place rather than another—yes. Having experienced this and still living it, I can vouch for that. So, thanks to chance, and thanks to life, simply put. Geli
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Good evening,

No, no, that’s not it at all in my case, but I’m short on time tonight to explain. I’ll come back tomorrow...

Michel

Hello,

First of all, it’s only human, I think—especially since we often decide to travel in reaction to a difficult situation we’re experiencing where we are. Plus, we often go on "vacation," a break to relax, so of course... it seems better, not to say wonderful.

As a result, we forget that daily life exists everywhere, and that for local populations or long-term residents, life’s problems remain the same as for the average person.

So, is it really better elsewhere? Not necessarily, but depending on our personal fulfillment needs, it’s possible to find opportunities here rather than there, yes. Having experienced it and continuing to live it, I can attest to that. So, thank you, chance, and thank you, life, quite simply. Geli
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
Personally, I’ve never thought that everything is rosier elsewhere. In some places, there are things I prefer compared to France, and others I think are not as good. Of course, it depends on the country—I definitely don’t envy very poor or "underdeveloped" countries.
http://www.lasourisglobe-trotteuse.fr/

Des milliers de photos et plein de conseils d'une souris pour voyager low-cost en Europe et hors des sentiers battus
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Hello,

I said I’d come back here to clarify what I meant the other day.

So, no—the “grass is always greener” effect isn’t tied to being on vacation for me. In fact, I really like my job, and that actually makes the unease even sharper in a way. Because, to be clear, France is still a country that’s not exactly welcoming to people who value freedom. We’ve lived under deep state influence for centuries, along with a very universalist ideology that seems to justify just about everything. For example, right now, you’re noticeably freer—socially, civically, and culturally—in Germany than in France. Even in daily life, the difference is glaring. You won’t find the same rigidity that enforces a single school calendar, that regulates transportation in an ultra-centralized way with monopolies we all know are cumbersome and penalizing, or that imposes identical rules on situations that aren’t actually comparable. France is a country that’ll enforce a single nationwide speed limit on roads and needs that have nothing in common, where the state intrudes coercively into people’s health. Take tobacco, for instance: instead of imposing a “universal” ban with all its socially and economically harmful effects, Germany bans cigarettes but allows establishments where they’re permitted—or even embraced. Internet freedom is incomparable—but France is the EU’s worst student there. Freedom of movement, plain and simple. Respect for Schengen.

You might think these are minor points, and it’s probably true that living in Brittany, at least 800 km from a border, makes me feel a bit more trapped by this statism than I should... That’s possible. But in any case, France is a *souf-france* for me, as I wrote earlier.

Michel

PS: If you have any thoughts on what France is currently doing well in Europe in terms of freedoms, let me know.
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
and well, I tell myself "that it's better elsewhere."

In a few words: "It's better elsewhere" => falls under Morality, in short, saying what's good and what's bad, creating dichotomies between these two notions.

=> "It's better..." => is it absolute good, in short, the pursuit of happiness at all costs?

=> If everyone on this forum is searching for absolute happiness, then what is happiness?

=> Is happiness found elsewhere in Switzerland, in Africa, in the USA...?

Oh, and sorry... the little daily hassles like whether you can smoke in restaurants or drive over 90 km/h on national roads—I don’t think that’s part of the quest for existential happiness on an individual level 😏
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Hi there,

Back in the '80s or '90s, that might have worked for someone working an hour a week, one and a half weeks a year. I know people who complain about liberalism for even less than that. What really weighs heavy is the sharp decline in freedoms—freedom of speech, freedom of movement—compared to the rest of Europe, which feels so much more at ease.

Michel
MA Mariecurry Globetrotter ·
If you have any ideas about what’s currently good in France at the European level in terms of freedoms, let me know.

Above all, it’s the sharp decline in freedoms—of expression, of movement—that weighs heavily compared to the rest of Europe, which seems so much more serene.

Hey,

You really don’t let up, do you? One freedom I have in France that not all European women do: control over my own body. In France, I have the absolute right to an abortion, while women in Ireland, Poland, Malta, and a few other countries are reduced to waving signs in the street. I’m not gonna rant about it for ages—just responding to your comment that kinda annoyed me.

Happy New Year! Hope you’ve made some good resolutions. 😉

Anyway, back to the original topic... the grass is always greener elsewhere (clearly, they’ve never been to Normandy).
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Hello,

You won’t hold it against me for structurally feeling quite unconcerned by the specific topic you’re bringing up, even if I acknowledge its importance. I don’t think the French state has recently distinguished itself in respecting bodily autonomy or medical choices, frankly: rejecting the right to die with dignity, prescriptions unmatched anywhere else in Europe.

Michel

If you have any ideas about what’s currently good in France at the European level in terms of freedoms, let me know.

Above all, it’s the sharp decline in freedoms—of expression, of movement—that weighs heavily compared to the rest of Europe, which seems so much more at ease.

Hi,

You really don’t let go, do you? One freedom I have in France that not all European women share: control over my own body. In France, I have the absolute right to abortion, while Irish, Polish, Maltese women, and others are reduced to waving placards in the streets. I’m not going to ramble on about it—just responding to your comment that annoyed me a bit.

Happy New Year! I hope you’ve made some good resolutions. 😉

Anyway, back to the original topic... the grass is always greener elsewhere (apparently, they’ve never been to Normandy).
HE Henridusud Globetrotter ·
Tatra, you're right. It's better elsewhere. Everywhere else is better. No question about it... For example, migrants are rushing to Poland and Hungary, even Austria where they're welcomed with open arms.... As you say, they're so much more at ease there...
"Le touriste apparait comme le principal agent de diffusion du mépris anti touristique. Plus le touriste se voit en miroir de l'autre, plus il le déteste".

JEAN DIDIER URBAIN "L'idiot du voyage"
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
We were talking about Europe. I’ve always had a bit of trouble with this French blind spot. And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit certain temperaments better. If you don’t like a strong, centralized state, France isn’t the right country for you.

Michel
HE Henridusud Globetrotter ·
We were talking about Europe. I’ve always struggled a bit with this French blindness. And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit certain temperaments better. If you don’t like centralized state power, France isn’t the right country for you.

Michel

I had no idea Austria, Hungary, and Poland weren’t in Europe. My bad...
"Le touriste apparait comme le principal agent de diffusion du mépris anti touristique. Plus le touriste se voit en miroir de l'autre, plus il le déteste".

JEAN DIDIER URBAIN "L'idiot du voyage"
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
Just recently, I’ve been picturing myself in Poland, Russia, or the Czech Republic. No, these countries aren’t better economically or socially, but with my personality, I just feel more at home there. Sometimes the heart overrides the head.

Like I said, for me, it’s rotten everywhere—I’m not deluding myself—but there are just places that suit us better than others...

Anyway, in my case, I honestly don’t believe there’s anywhere else out there, but that’s another topic.
http://www.lasourisglobe-trotteuse.fr/

Des milliers de photos et plein de conseils d'une souris pour voyager low-cost en Europe et hors des sentiers battus
HE Henridusud Globetrotter ·
Actually, I could see myself in Poland or Russia, or in the Czech Republic. No, these countries aren’t better economically or socially, but with my personality, I just feel better there. Sometimes the heart overrides the head.

Like I said, for me, it’s rotten everywhere—I’m not deluding myself—but there are just places that suit us more than others...

In my case, I don’t even believe in ‘elsewhere’ anymore, but that’s another topic.

What’s stopping you from taking the leap? If it’ll make you feel better, go for it... It’s not a provocation, just a suggestion to avoid regrets. You learn a lot by living abroad.
"Le touriste apparait comme le principal agent de diffusion du mépris anti touristique. Plus le touriste se voit en miroir de l'autre, plus il le déteste".

JEAN DIDIER URBAIN "L'idiot du voyage"
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
As always, money’s tight—I don’t have savings, and I’ve got nothing to offer those countries. I can’t see what I’d even do there. I’d love to spend time in Russia to learn the language (I’m starting at home), but I don’t have the cash for it (obviously it costs money—you’ve got to pay for accommodation, etc.).

My health’s another issue, but I don’t want to go into detail.

Like I said, I don’t think it’s automatically better elsewhere in every way. In France, we’ve got a solid healthcare system, so it’s smarter to stay when our own health lets us down. France has its perks—I’m not denying that. But it’s got downsides too, just like anywhere else.
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MA Mariecurry Globetrotter ·
And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit certain temperaments. For those who don’t like centralized state power, France isn’t a well-suited country.

You’re stuck on the concept—we’re starting to know you by now. Very concretely, I don’t think the administrative setup of France would be a dealbreaker for someone motivated to move here. Same goes for those who decide to leave. People expatriate for work, because they want to live under the sun, for love, and so on... rarely because the country they chose to live in is a federal state. We read that you’re not happy where you are, but we still don’t know where you *would* be happy living.
GE Geli Veteran ·
And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit certain temperaments. If you don’t like a centralized state, France isn’t the right country for you.

You’re stuck on the concept—we’re starting to know you by now. Very concretely, I don’t think the administrative setup of France would be a dealbreaker for someone considering moving here. Same for those who decide to leave. People move abroad for work, because they want to live under the sun, for love, and so on... rarely because the country they chose is a federal state. We read that you’re not happy where you are, but we still don’t know where you *would* be happy.

Hi, I actually think that when you decide to move abroad, you don’t necessarily consider all the legal, financial, or administrative aspects... and yet, the risk of disappointment is very real—just the daily grind, the routine, unless you have a job (and ideally one you chose) that truly excites you. Geli
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Good evening,

You’re struggling to see things the way I do, and that’s completely understandable. 🙂

Not everyone has to share the same passion for universal equality, the love of the State (which we expect everything from), the administration (which we join like an army), the one and only language that’s supposed to erase all others, or the Human Rights we claim for ourselves but often bend the rules on—France is currently one of the countries that no longer respects the European Convention on Human Rights... We’re allowed to have other views—more liberal, more individualistic, more open on moral and religious questions—without wanting to lecture the world or tie our culture to a single nation.

I don’t see why this would knock you off your chair, honestly.

Michel

And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit certain temperaments better. If you don’t like centralized state power, France isn’t the right country for you.

You’re stuck on the concept—we’re starting to know you by now. Very concretely, I don’t think France’s administrative setup is a dealbreaker for someone considering moving here. Same goes for those who decide to leave. People expatriate for work, because they want to live somewhere sunny, for love, and so on... rarely because the country they’ve chosen is a federal state. We read that you’re not happy where you are, but we still don’t know where you *would* be happy.

Hello, I actually think that when someone decides to expatriate, they don’t necessarily consider all the legal, financial, or even practical aspects... and yet, the risk of disappointment is real, if only in the day-to-day routine—unless you have a job (ideally one you’re passionate about) that keeps you engaged. Geli
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Who's talking about moving abroad? 😉

Michel

Hello, I really think that when you decide to move abroad, you don’t necessarily consider all the legal, financial, or administrative aspects... and yet, the risks of disappointment are very real—just from daily life and routine, unless you have a job (the best-case scenario) that you’re passionate about. Geli
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Good evening,

I find it rather tactless of you to have altered your post after my reply by adding: "Besides, migrants, for example, are rushing to Poland and Hungary, even Austria, where they’re welcomed with open arms.... As you say, they’re so much more at ease there..."

I have nothing against those countries, and it’s a bit too easy to criticize them from France—our press does a fine job of that already. My opinion and experience lead me to be more nuanced.

Michel

We were talking about Europe. I’ve always struggled a bit with this French blindness. And I wasn’t making absolute statements. I was saying that some countries suit some temperaments better. For those who don’t like centralized state power, France isn’t an ideal fit.

Michel

I wasn’t aware that Austria, Hungary, and Poland weren’t in Europe. My apologies...
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
good evening,

We’re allowed to have other conceptions—more liberal, more individualistic, more open on moral and religious questions... Without wanting to lecture the world, while having a culture that fits the nation.

ehh, unless I’m mistaken, isn’t that called utopia? 😏 And I’ll come back to my question about *bohneur* (which no one really answers except Mirandamouse, who’s happy taking Russian classes)—does traveling to utopia lead to happiness? Sorry if I’m over-conceptualizing too 😎
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Utopia? Nah, not at all. Want a list? 😏

Michel

Good evening,

We’re allowed to have other conceptions—more liberal, more individualistic, more open on moral and religious questions... Without wanting to lecture the world, while having a culture that fits the nation.

Uhh, if I’m not mistaken, isn’t that called utopia? 😏 And I’ll come back to my question about *bohneur* (which no one really answers except Mirandamouse, who’s content taking Russian classes)—does traveling to utopia lead to *bohneur*? Sorry if I’m over-conceptualizing too 😎
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
Good evening,

We’re allowed to have other conceptions—more liberal, more individualistic, more open on moral and religious questions... Without wanting to lecture the world, while having a culture that fits the nation.

ehh, unless I’m mistaken, isn’t that called utopia? 😏 And I’ll come back to my question about happiness (which no one really answers except Mirandamouse, who’s content taking Russian classes)—does traveling to utopia lead to happiness? Sorry if I’m over-conceptualizing too 😎

Uh, there’s no connection between happiness and taking Russian classes. For me, happiness is something I haven’t known what it is for a long time, and I’m not chasing after it.
http://www.lasourisglobe-trotteuse.fr/

Des milliers de photos et plein de conseils d'une souris pour voyager low-cost en Europe et hors des sentiers battus
MA Mariecurry Globetrotter ·
=> falls under Morality, in short, saying what is good and what is bad, creating dichotomies between these two notions.

=> "It's better..." => is that absolute good, in short, the pursuit of happiness at all costs?

=> If everyone on this forum is searching for absolute happiness, then what is happiness?

=> Is happiness found elsewhere in Switzerland, Africa, the USA...?

Are you prepping for the 2018 philosophy baccalaureate topics? 😏

And I come back to my question about happiness (which no one really answers except Mirandamouse, who’s content with taking Russian classes)—does traveling to utopia lead to happiness?

I don’t know where it leads others, but for me, it leads straight to my bookshelf (comic book fans will understand). More seriously, what a strange question! What is utopia? What is happiness? We’re not out of the woods yet...

Sorry if I’m over-conceptualizing too much

Oh, barely! [;]
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Because, let's be clear, France is still a country that's not very conducive to people who love freedom

We should ask Turks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Eritreans, North Koreans, Iranians, Burmese, Libyans, Cubans, Chinese, Iraqis, Russians, Afghans, Saudis, and so on... the list is too long...

And as Mariecurry points out, we should also ask women or LGBTQ+ people.

Atheists, agnostics...
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Congratulations, you’re doing a fantastic job representing the official line. 🙂 You’d probably be quite surprised, though, to hear their actual response. It’s very, very far from what you assume.

You’re absolutely refusing to see that France is a highly centralized state and far from liberal—from any perspective.

Michel

Because, let’s be clear, France is still a country that’s not exactly welcoming to people who love freedom

You’d have to ask Turks, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Eritreans, North Koreans, Iranians, Burmese, Libyans, Cubans, Chinese, Iraqis, Russians, Afghans, Saudis, and... well, the list goes on...

And as Mariecurry points out, ask women or LGBTQ+ folks.

Atheists, agnostics...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
You too. 😇
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
A North Korean, an Iranian, or a Saudi would explain to you with the same sincerity as yours that their country is the best and that those who don’t see it are crazy. Wanna bet? Have you ever tried it? I have. 😏

Michel

You too.😇

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