No, I Won’t Be Going Back to China

I haven’t been to India even though I have wealthy friends there!!! So visiting a country like India in a Mercedes isn’t my thing. Too bad, but traveling alone, it’s just not safe enough for me—I always travel solo.

Between 1990 and 2020, during MY TRAVELS IN September, I never experienced temperatures above 30°C. Today, everything’s changed!!!!!

I’ve visited at least thirty countries alone with my Defender and five more renting a 4x4. No issues except for a minor one in France and another in Italy!!!!!

All of Asia is safer than Europe WHEN TRAVELING ALONE.

In India, you often need to have strong nerves and be used to traveling... (scams, harassment are commonplace!)

I can confirm that...🙁 Just in transit at Delhi airport recently! Your nerves can really be put to the test...

I won’t be going back for any other reason, but largely because of the growth in tourism for Chinese visitors—I imagine too many crowds, queues, and above all being "forced" to go to the "must-see" spots and not being able to go where I really want.

Yes, that’s a bit of a concern for me too. Just look up the on-site programs to see what I mean. Everything is meticulously organized and timed. The ideal would be to rent and drive a vehicle to go wherever we please, but apparently, that’s very difficult. In Zhangye in Gansu, for example, you can’t stray from the tourist route to hike in the "Rainbow Mountains." In the dunes at Dunhuang, there are even traffic signs for camels! Still, I think there must be places where you can walk or move around freely, like in Sichuan and Yunnan, which are more frequented by foreign tourists. Anyway, we’ll see—we’re going back this autumn. Despite a few concerns, the strong desire to revisit this fascinating country (at least for me) wins out.

In Zhangye, Gansu, for example, you can’t just wander off the tourist trail to hike in the "Rainbow Mountains." In the dunes at Dunhuang, there are even traffic signs for camels!

That’s exactly the kind of issue I want to avoid. On VF, most trips stick to a set itinerary. But traveling like that, I feel like I’d end up at Disneyland! (I’m probably exaggerating a little.) Personally, I like to go wherever I please, and I don’t want to find myself in the same situation as my first trip.

I still think there must be places where you can walk or move around freely, like in Sichuan and Yunnan, which are more popular with foreign tourists.

It’s probably possible, but you’ve got to be careful...

"I wouldn’t go back for any other reason, but largely because of the tourism development aimed at Chinese visitors—I imagine too many crowds, queues, and especially feeling 'forced' to go to the 'must-see' spots instead of where I really want to go."

Well, turns out I’m not the only one who doesn’t want to return somewhere! But after thinking it over, I think I *will* go back to China—just not on an organized trip, and probably far from the big cities. I haven’t decided anything yet. I’m also considering traveling from Hong Kong to northern Vietnam by bike, naturally passing through China. Two different projects.

I was also thinking of connecting northern Vietnam from Hong Kong by bike, naturally passing through China

The situation for foreign tourists in China has surely changed a lot, but I still recommend being cautious... Do your research beforehand (but where and how?) When I was in Yangshuo in 1986, this small town was already very touristy. Yangshuo was on the list of authorized cities. It's even where I met the most foreigners: Europeans, Americans, Australians, etc. You could rent bikes there! Which I did to explore the surrounding villages... I didn't go 50 km—just about ten at most. At a fork in the road, I had the choice between two directions and picked the wrong one. Both directions were written (like everywhere!) in Chinese. No prohibition signs. Nothing. I rode 1 or 2 km and ended up in a large village. I stopped there to have lunch at a roadside eatery... A Chinese hotpot—I think I even ate dog. They were selling them (in wire cages) everywhere. I paid and was about to leave on my bike... That's when my troubles started. I was stopped by a plainclothes cop (who spoke perfect English). I had to follow him to the police station... I had to wait for the "big boss" to arrive, who didn't speak a word of English... Translation: You entered a "restricted area" illegally—this is a serious offense... The interrogation (always the same stupid questions like "Did you come here by bus or by bike!") lasted at least 4 hours! In short, I spent the day at the station, they confiscated my bike, and I had to pay a fine. The legal amount ranged (for example) from 10 to 50 RMB. I had to pay the maximum amount!

Back in the 80s, there were no mobile phones. I might have to stop regularly along the way to fire up the translator 🤔🤔. It reminds me that I wrote to the Chinese embassy twice a few months ago and I’m still waiting!!!

After a little stint in jail, it could be part of the travel experience 😄

After a little stint in jail, it can become part of the travel experience

If I hadn’t been able to pay the fine right away, I’m sure I would’ve ended up there!

Great story, but that was 40 years ago. You even said it yourself—things have changed, and nowhere more so than in China!

I know a guy who left France and is now in Afghanistan. He got chased and spent a few days in jail in Iran—he was in a sensitive area. And this happened recently

China is always amazing. I’ve been there 3 times for a month each. Everywhere, the welcome you get is something you won’t find in Switzerland or France. Tibet is just incredible! Condition: avoid tourist hotels.

And I’m thinking of going back in 2027 to northern China.

I know a guy who left France and is now in Afghanistan, who got chased and spent a few days in jail in Iran. He was in a sensitive area. And this is recent

No connection whatsoever.

What you said matches exactly what I experienced during my trips to China. But I didn’t have the words to express it or the courage to say it—otherwise, it might’ve sounded like propaganda, haha.

Besides, I also ran into some downsides while traveling in China. Oh well, that’s just how travel goes—and life in general—ups and downs..😛

Absolutely. By the way, it did feel tough at times, but overall, I wasn’t traumatized since I’m going back in a few weeks! Also, a quick question: I’ll be there during the May 1st holidays, and I know the Chinese travel a lot during this "bridge" period. But is it really necessary to book everything in advance—for example, the Hangzhou -> Shanghai trip on the afternoon of May 2nd (train or bus)? Or even Tangkou -> Hangzhou on the morning of April 30th (by bus, I think)? Thanks.

The south: Fascinating: Tibet and the southern minorities. The west: the big cities.

I’m totally lost with your take on the cardinal directions. Since the comment about the big cities in the west has already been made (:-)), I’ll just react to the Tibet part. If Tibet is in the south, where should we place Yunnan, Guangxi, Guangdong, and Hainan?

No region in China is tropical, always pleasant temperatures

The climate in Xishuangbanna (Yunnan) is considered tropical. The same goes for Hainan, if I’m not mistaken (though I’ve never been there and can’t speak from experience).

Both directions were written (as everywhere!) in Chinese.

For all we know, it might have said "restricted area" :-)

I think there are plenty of countries where you’d run into trouble if you wander into a "restricted area." And in some, if you get off with just a fine, you can probably consider yourself lucky. I’m not sure what 50 RMB was worth in 1986. My first thought is that it wasn’t much (especially for a French person).

Hello Chinevoyages,

When it comes to food, the typical style of each province might not suit you.

Absolutely—I was actually bothered by Eric’s use of the term "Chinese cuisine." You just can’t compare what you eat in Beijing, Guangdong, or Hunan. To me, it’s as inconsistent as lumping together dishes as different as choucroute, cassoulet, potée auvergnate, quenelle sauce Nantua, or marouflette au maroilles under the single label "French cuisine" :-) For example, while Hunan cuisine is extremely spicy, that’s not the case with what you’ll find in Beijing.

By the way, the phrase "a bowl of rice and hundreds of gugus" is brilliant, but I’m wondering what "gugus" are

Since I see no one’s answered you yet, I’ll come to the rescue. *Gugus* is a slang, somewhat derogatory term for a person who’s grotesque (or even comical).

The south: Fascinating—the Tibet and the southern minorities. The west: the big cities.

I’m completely lost with your take on the cardinal directions. Since the comment about the big cities in the west has already been made (:-)), I’ll only react to Tibet. If it’s in the south, where should we place Yunnan, Guangxi, Guangdong, and Hainan?

No region in China is tropical, always pleasant temperatures

The climate in Xishuangbanna (in Yunnan) is considered tropical. The same goes for Hainan, if I’m not mistaken (though I’ve never been there and can’t speak from experience)

For me, everything south of Chongqing is southern China. I’ve visited all the regions in this south—three times in 10 years. Always in September, always with pleasant temperatures. Even cooking in Sichuan. The first time was in 2004. And roaming around with my Defender in about twenty countries (in Asia). John

Where did you buy your Defender? And is it easy to cross borders into China’s neighboring countries?

I sold the Defender. It had over 500,000 km and no issues at all. Yes, in some countries like Iran, you have to leave a bank guarantee at the border so you don’t sell the vehicle. China was trickier if you’re not in a group. And I always traveled solo. So for trips to China, I’d rent a 4x4 with a driver. In theory, it wasn’t too expensive, but for a permit, Beijing asked me for $2000 with no guarantee I’d be able to cross the Torugart Pass without problems. And that’s that

I’m totally lost with your take on the cardinal directions.

Uh... Me too

The climate in Xishuangbanna (Yunnan) is considered tropical. The same goes for Hainan, if I’m not mistaken (though I’ve never been there and can’t speak from experience).

I went to Hainan about twenty years ago. It *is* a tropical island—overrated in some spots, but it’s really nice to relax there for a few days after a long trip around China...

Despite its "flaws," I find China fascinating, and we’re happily heading back this autumn. For the first time, we’ll take advantage of the 30-day "visa-free" stay, which will take us to Gansu, a small part of Yunnan, and—hopefully—a few days in Zhangjiajie Park.

So for trips in China, I used to rent a 4x4 with a driver.

Ah, so *that’s* the key to the mystery...😉

I’m totally lost with your take on the cardinal points.

Uh... Me too

The climate in Xishuangbanna (Yunnan) is considered tropical. The same goes, if I’m not mistaken, for Hainan (though I’ve never been there and can’t speak from experience).

I went to Hainan about twenty years ago. It’s definitely a tropical island—somewhat overrated in places, but it’s really nice to relax there for a few days after a long trip around China...

Despite its "flaws," I find China fascinating, and we’re happily heading back this autumn. For the first time, we’ll take advantage of the 30-day visa-free stay, which will take us to Gansu, a small part of Yunnan, and—hopefully—a few days in Zhangjiajie Park.

AWESOME. I’ve already visited those regions for a whole month— September, and the temperature never went above 30°C. Yunnan, the food!! Amazing. Have a great trip.

If I had to guess, it probably said "regulated zone" :-)

I think there are many countries where you’ll run into trouble if you enter a "restricted area." And in some, if you get off with just a fine, you can probably consider yourself lucky. I have no idea what 50 RMB was worth in 1986. My first thought would be that it wasn’t much (especially for a French person).

I completely disagree with what you’re saying.

Actually, if my memory serves me right, there was nothing written. Both roads were the same width and paved. Nothing indicated that one of them was off-limits. In fact, once at the "police station," I explained that it was impossible for me to know the area was "restricted" since there was no sign to indicate it. I was told, word for word: "It's a fact you inter a restricted area no matter the way you enter." In other words, they don’t care about the reasons—it’s a fact that you entered a restricted area. On top of that, the police told me these "restricted areas" only apply to foreign tourists, not Chinese people. So why not put up an explicit sign to prevent foreigners from entering illegally? It seems pretty obvious to me that this "forbidden zone," very close to a tourist hub (Yangshuo/Guilin), which doesn’t benefit from tourism revenue, decided to extract money at the expense of lost tourists... Besides, why station a plainclothes cop (who spoke perfect English) in the first village affected by this restriction instead of setting up a checkpoint at the road intersection?

Before going to China, I’ve traveled through dozens of countries and never encountered a situation like this. Here are a few I’ve been to: Yugoslavia, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal. In all these countries, I’ve dealt with "restricted areas." In India and Nepal, you need a special permit to enter, and unless you avoid roads and paths, you can’t get in. There’s a checkpoint at every entrance where you have to show your permit. In Iran and Afghanistan, there’s no permit—just a strict ban. You don’t cross the checkpoint; the police turn foreigners away. In Yugoslavia, near Lake Ohrid (Macedonia) and very close to the Albanian border, my wife and I were hiking in the mountains (we’re used to walking a lot). We ended up on a trail climbing into the heights when we saw a sign in Serbian (Cyrillic script) with exclamation marks, a skull, and danger signals... We quickly realized the trail was off-limits. Looking up, we spotted a watchtower with a guard watching us through binoculars... In China, none of that. As for the fine I had to pay (I still have it in a drawer at home), it doesn’t matter whether the amount was high or low—it’s the principle that’s outrageous! The rates I mentioned were purely indicative; I don’t remember the exact amount, except that the laws simply stated they ranged from X to Y. So why, when it was impossible for me to know I was at fault, was I charged the highest rate?

hi thanks for the account, Djalma! If you see “access forbidden” signs in the former Yugoslav countries, it almost certainly means there are unexploded landmines and wartime ordnance. The French Ministry of Foreign Affairs website mentions this for North Macedonia.

If you see "access forbidden" signs in the former Yugoslav countries, it’s almost certainly because there are landmines and unexploded ordnance there. It’s mentioned on the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs website regarding North Macedonia.

Hi, That dates back to 1981! The area I’m talking about is the border zone between Macedonia (Yugoslav at the time) and Albania (which was off-limits!). It was very possible the terrain was mined outside the path leading to the watchtower. In that sector, we knew the Albanian border was nearby, and we had no intention of ignoring any warnings. The sign was clear even without understanding the exact words—we turned back.

Maybe it said "restricted zone" :-)

I think there are many countries where you’d run into trouble if you enter a "restricted area." And in some, if you get away with just a fine, you can consider yourself lucky. I’m not sure what 50 RMB was worth in 1986. My first thought is that it wasn’t much (especially for a French person).

I completely disagree with what you’re saying.

Actually, if my memory serves me right, there was nothing written. Both roads were the same width and paved. Nothing indicated that one of them was off-limits. Besides, once at the "police station," I explained that it was impossible for me to know the area was "restricted" since there was no sign to prove it. I was told, word for word: "It's a fact you inter a restricted area no matter the way you enter." In other words, they don’t care about the reasons—it’s a fact that you entered a restricted area. On top of that, the police told me these "restricted areas" only apply to foreign tourists, not Chinese people. So why not put up a clear sign to stop foreigners from entering illegally? It seems pretty obvious to me that this "forbidden zone," so close to a tourist hub (Yangshuo/Guilin) but not benefiting from tourism revenue, decided to make money off tourists who got lost... And why station a plainclothes cop (who spoke perfect English) in the first village affected by this ban instead of setting up a checkpoint at the road junction?

Before going to China, I’d traveled through dozens of countries and never encountered a situation like this. Here are a few: Yugoslavia, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal. In all of these countries, I came across "restricted areas." In India and Nepal, you need a special permit to enter, and unless you avoid roads and paths, you can’t get in—there’s a checkpoint at every entrance where you have to show your permit. In Iran and Afghanistan, there’s no permit, just a total ban. You don’t cross the checkpoint; the police turn foreigners away. In Yugoslavia, near Lake Ohrid (Macedonia) and very close to the Albanian border, my wife and I were hiking in the mountains (we’re used to walking a lot) when we found ourselves on a trail climbing up the hills. We saw a sign in Serbian (Cyrillic script) with exclamation marks, a skull, and danger symbols... We quickly realized the trail was off-limits. Looking up, we spotted a watchtower with a guard watching us through binoculars... In China, none of that. As for the fine I had to pay (I still have the receipt in a drawer at home), the rates were purely indicative—I don’t remember the exact amount, just that the law stated they ranged from X to Y. So why, when it was impossible for me to know I was at fault, did they make me pay the highest rate?

Your response is strange. Today, you can’t drive alone in China with your 4x4. Until now, I’d always been alone with my Defender. And in Yugoslavia, Turkey, Iran, Russia, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, etc., I never had any issues. In 2005, the police in Turkey banned me from driving my 4x4 up Mount Ararat. That was the only restriction in all my travels. But in China, I had to change my approach because it’s *extremely* complicated to travel alone with a private 4x4. So for the past 15 years, I’ve always traveled with a Chinese driver. In the end, it’s not much more expensive. I have to drive at least 8,000 km just to reach the Chinese border. And that’s that.

I went to Hainan about twenty years ago. It’s a tropical island, a bit overhyped in places, but it’s really nice to relax there for a few days after a long trip around China...

I also went there during the trip I’m talking about. It was early November, and I got hit by a cyclone! No planes or boats to leave... I had to get creative! My professional card with blue, white, and red stripes probably helped. That’s when I cut a line that must’ve been hundreds of meters long. By insisting a little and flashing my "VIP" card, the guard at the port entrance let me through I was able to get back to the mainland on the first boat leaving...

Your response is odd. These days, you can’t drive alone in China with your 4x4. Up until now, I’ve always been alone with my Defender. And in Yugoslavia, Turkey, Iran, Russia, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, etc., I never had any problems. In 2005, the Mount Ararat in Turkey, the police forbade me from going up in my 4x4. That was the only restriction in all my travels. In China, I changed my approach because it’s extremely complicated to travel alone with a private 4x4. So for the past 15 years, I’ve always traveled with a Chinese driver. In the end, it’s not much more expensive. Because I have to drive at least 8,000 km just to reach the Chinese border. And that’s that.

It seems you misunderstood (or misread)... I only went to China in 1986, and not with a 4x4 but by public transport. First by bus from Hong Kong, then by bus, train, plane, and boat for the rest of the trip. Back then, you couldn’t enter China with your own vehicle. I don’t know about now, but what I do know is that I have no desire to go back at all.

PS: When I was stopped by the police, I was on a bike (a rental bike). PS: With a Chinese driver, there’s no risk of entering a restricted zone—or at least no risk of getting fined. 😄

Back then, you couldn’t bring your own vehicle into China. I’ve no idea how it is these days, but what I do know is that I don’t want to go back at all.

It seems possible now, but only if you’re willing to go through a lot of heavy and restrictive administrative formalities. You’ll obviously need a Chinese driver’s license. That’s why our friend, who seems to have "done" every nook and cranny in China from north to south and east to west, had to resort—like most tourists—to renting a car with a driver...😉 But I’m getting off track here...

Back to your story, that really was bad luck. I hope and think the situation has improved since then. Maybe it’s my age, but I can’t imagine traveling around China the way I used to, relying only on public transport. Of course, the budget isn’t the same anymore...

Yes, it’s highly recommended, since it’s a 7- or 8-day holiday bridge that’s considered peak tourist season. Because of that, it’s essential to book all parts of your trip (accommodation, transport, etc.) in advance—at least a week before you leave. Also, keep in mind that train tickets can be booked 14 days before the travel date. To make sure you get a good deal, it’s important to book as soon as possible.

...Nothing indicated that an es 2 was prohibited. Besides, once at the "police station," I explained that it was impossible for me to know the "region" was "restricted" since there was no specific sign stating so. He literally replied, "It's a fact you enter a restricted area no matter the way you enter." In other words, they don’t care about the reasons, and it’s a fact that you entered a restricted area. Furthermore, these "restricted areas," as the police confirmed, only apply to foreign tourists, not Chinese. So why not put up an explicit sign to prevent foreigners from entering illegally? It seems pretty obvious to me that this "forbidden zone," very close to a tourist center (Yangshuo/Guilin), not benefiting from tourism revenue, decided to extract money at the expense of lost tourists... Besides, why place a plainclothes cop (who spoke perfect English) in the first village affected by this ban instead of a checkpoint at the road intersection?

Based on your explanation, this really sounds like extortion. At that time (I think it’s less true today), corruption was rampant in China. I can understand how this experience could be extremely distressing and even traumatic.

I’ve never had such experiences in China, and my interactions with the police have always been very cordial (even if, for some, it started a bit unsettlingly 🤪).

Personally, to come back to the post’s title, I really hope to return to China.

Hey Thierry, Good to see you back here! For me, I go to China and return with pleasure. Just last year, I went twice. To Yunnan, to wander around Yuanyang, where I’ve been going since 2009. Sure, there’s more tourism now, but it really depends on the time of year—the region is so vast. When I walk along the trails through the rice terraces, I’m alone, surrounded by villagers coming and going, going about their daily lives. Sometimes I run into a buffalo on the path. This year, it’ll be Sichuan.

this strongly resembles extortion. Back then (I think it's less true today), corruption was very common in China. I can understand that this experience could be extremely painful and even traumatic.

I wouldn’t say that. The fine was issued in accordance with the law. I got a stamped receipt with the red star! And signed by the authorities. I just think this law was probably passed locally to bring in foreign currency because of the lack of tourists who focus on Yangshuo: Guilin... For me, it wasn’t really traumatic, but let’s just say I wasted half a day for nothing!

Absolutely! I’m from central China, Xi’an. Our cuisine blends northern and southern styles. You can find a bit of everything, especially ingredients like flour and complex carbs. That said, in real life, we also eat plenty of veggies and meat. Of course, costs vary from person to person.

These days, we’re focusing more on sustainable health by cutting back on salt and chili peppers. For example, I eat less spicy food if my stomach’s acting up—otherwise, my meals are *super* spicy. 😛

I’ve met Mongols who don’t like lamb or beef, and another time, I ran into some folks from Shaanxi (山西) who don’t care for vinegar—even though their province is famous for being "soaked in vinegar"! It’s like red wine for some French people!

Anyway, it’s the childhood flavors of each region and family that stick with you. For example, I didn’t find any dishes I liked in Hangzhou. My friends from Hangzhou just stay quiet about that one...

It’s a shame you don’t want to go back, because since 1986, it’s probably the country that’s changed the most in the world.

What a wild "pioneer" experience, complete with all the adventures that come with it. There can’t have been many Europeans traveling in China back then!

It’s a shame you don’t want to go back, because since 1986 it’s probably the country that’s changed the most in the world.

I think I’d still prefer the China I knew back then, when very few Chinese traveled and there were only bikes.😏 What I see through the media and the behavior of hordes of Chinese tourists abroad (especially in Southeast Asia) doesn’t make me want to go back at all🙁

There probably weren’t that many Europeans traveling in China at that time

Who traveled the way I did—meaning with no plans in advance, not knowing where I’d stay each day, and without following a "classic" itinerary, a bit "off the beaten track"—not many, no.

Hi there,

For us, it’s the opposite—we loved China! I didn’t have great memories from over 20 years ago, so I decided to go back for a month, and wow, it was a real crush. The landscapes, the ease of getting around with super affordable and modern transport, the delicious and cheap food, the incredibly welcoming and curious locals, and hotels that are super cheap for 3- and 4-star quality. So, we’re heading back for another month at the end of October. It’s so vast that I think we’ll be returning several times. After visiting Chongqing, Guiyang, Zhenyuan, Guilin, Liuzhou, and Nanning—a mix of modern and ancient cities—we’re planning to see Chengdu, Wuhan, the beaches of Xiamen, and Yunnan next.

Hi,

For us, it was the opposite—we loved China! I didn’t have great memories from over 20 years ago, so I decided to go back for a month, and wow, it was amazing. The landscapes, the super affordable and modern transportation, the delicious and cheap food, the incredibly welcoming and curious locals, and the hotels—so inexpensive for 3- and 4-star quality. So, we’re heading back for another month at the end of October. It’s so vast that I think we’ll return several times. After visiting Chongqing, Guiyang, Zhenyuan, Guilin, Liuzhou, and Nanning—a mix of cities and old towns—we’re planning to see Chengdu, Wuhan, the beaches of Xiamen, and Yunnan next.

Do you have any Chinese contacts around Nanning or Guilin?

Hi, No sorry, we did everything independently.

hi everyone, I’m jumping in on this thread. On YouTube, you see tons of videos about China’s massive infrastructure projects—mega-airports, high-speed trains, and so on... There’s even a high-speed train project planned to reach 450 km/h. @Chinevoyages, can you confirm or deny? Thanks for the replies

hi, I’m jumping in on this thread. On YouTube, there are tons of videos about China’s pharaonic infrastructure projects—mega-airports, high-speed trains, and so on... There’s a high-speed train project planned to reach 450 km/h. Ms. Chinevoyages can confirm or deny. Thanks for the replies

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with the topic