Converting a heavy-duty bus/coach/truck into a motorhome
FR

Translated into English.

PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
The big problem with this law is that I can't submit a file to the commission before 3 years have passed since my last seizure! (the operation, for me)

What you're saying is true!

christian06, when you say that my seizures aren't dangerous, when I had them, I didn't end up completely stiffened (to describe the type of seizure), I just ended up with numbness, that's all!

That they're not stupid, as you say, fr159, I don't doubt that.

The problem is that this commission won't look at files for "epilepsy sufferers" stabilized for less than 3 years. This deadline is inflexible according to the law! That's where my problem is!

I've searched through disability laws all I want, but the only recourse is through this commission after the fact! I can't find anything to shorten this three-year delay!

And yet, as you all know, I know how to dig through legislation when it really matters to me!

As a last resort to find out a bit more, I need to call my neurologist back around 4:30 PM this afternoon. He assured me he'd look into the issue by then. We'll see...

PATRICK26
FR Fr159 Regular ·
Fingers crossed for you!

Done! I've got my VASP Caravane registration papers. It cost me 32 euros—the price of a horsepower for the correction!
http://fr15966.skyblog.com/
DY Dyker Regular ·
Hi, I'm new to this forum, but I love what you all do, and I'd really like to get into it too.

I'd appreciate some expert advice—do you think it would be possible to import and register a GMC 4104 under VASP NSPC or VASP campervan classification? Like these ones: http://www.barrymorgan.com/gmcbus/ http://www.busforsale.com/wright/index.htm http://www.sellabus.com/gm.html

Thanks and have a great day everyone..
KA Kartmobile ·
😉 HI EVERYONE!

I'm not a computer expert and this is my first try tonight. I visited your very interesting site and I realized there are 125 pages to explore. Our family just bought a big vehicle, and naturally I have lots of questions to ask you, just like everyone else. Have a good evening and hopefully I'll see you tomorrow! Philippe CHARLOT www.kartalakarte.com
FR François57 Regular ·
Well, the problem is already getting the vehicle certified in France... and then for after-sales service, not great either.
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
I'm afraid I might disappoint you, but I'm pretty sure it's impossible!

I'm explaining this because I can't stand people who just say no without giving reasons...

In the cockpit photo from your second link, there's a photo of the driver's area, and:

You don't see a parking brake (which means that like many US heavy vehicles, it probably doesn't have pneumatic brakes with 2 separate circuits, making it non-compliant)

You don't see a retarder system, neither foot-operated nor a Telma. That's a second point for the same reason: non-compliant!

Third point: many US vehicles are 2.60m wide. In France, the limit is 2.55m!

I know, they're beautiful! But everything isn't allowed!

Me, I just spent a crazy day where I ran into some buddies who are deep in the dragster scene (a round of the European championship was happening today at Lanas, an airfield about 100km from my place), and there are cars we'd love to drive, but we can't! You can modify them to race, but you can't drive them on the road when they're stock — non-compliant in France! Too bad, too bad!

My mate came first in his category (Street Drag A) with his turbocharged Camaro with 700 horsepower on the first day, now it's up to him to do well tomorrow. We'd planned to use the bus for the next competitions, but I told him about the uncertainties regarding my license!

I'll know more next week...

Meanwhile, at the competition site there were 2 beautiful Airstreams towed by American cars of course (over there there were hardly any others) and a Canadian semi-trailer towed by a Chevrolet double cab with dual rear wheels that was just stunning! (The whole thing was in the team colors, glossy black with beautiful flames!)

Other buddies I'd lost touch with (4 brothers each racing in a different category + the wife of one of them — so 5 drag racers in the team!), have converted 2 really clean S53s each towing a 6m trailer. In each trailer goes a Top Fuel (those long dragsters with tiny wheels) + another one in a regular vehicle. The 5th one being registered (small category) travels by road. One of the buses is equipped as a workshop with an awning for working on cars, big compressor, etc..., the other as a base of operations with kitchen and sleeping quarters for the crew!

Well, that hardcore racing crew is all set up!

Damn, I sold my last American car 10 years ago, but it still gets to me.... There are things like that where it's hard to stay reasonable! Because it's not a cool thing to do with family, it's a thing to do with your mates, it's like motorcycle racing or other mechanical stuff! Except that here, the French championship is 5 races (way too few!) so when you get into it, it's straight for the European championship, and Santa Pod, and Hockenheim, and it becomes a mess with family if the wife isn't into it too — the smell of burnt rubber and methanol (and considering it's rare for women to like things that don't smell like Givenchy or Coco Chanel!). And cost-wise, it's more reasonable than a lot of other motorsports! Except for Top Fuel or Top Alcohol or Funny Cars (the big categories I mean) because once you have the car, you've got travel costs, the yearly license, and that's it! No entry fees like rallying or circuit racing! The organizers live off spectators' entry fees! The drivers are already providing the show, no need to squeeze them! And if you stay in the street categories (the first 3), your car has to be registered! So a modified American car, and you get to enjoy it outside competitions too, brilliant right!

Alright I'll stop, I'm hurting myself! If I keep going, I'll have flaming tattoos pushing their way onto my arms in the night...

It was the first time I took my 2 boys (10 and 12) to a dragster strip! If I'd listened to them on the way back, I'd be selling the Mercedes to buy a 1974 Pontiac Firebird and we'd paint flames on the bus, and off to Santa Pod! Ha ha, easy there kids, I'll remind you that a passion for mechanics is absolutely not Corinne's (my wife's) thing, and that even just to check it out, she didn't want to come for the day.

Alright, I'm going to go take a shower, that'll calm me down and get rid of the tire and methanol smells, and go to bed. Tomorrow we're doing the little one's birthday with the family, that'll calm me down...

PATRICK26
FR François57 Regular ·
?? Well, I'm motivated, with my poor mechanical knowledge, just like 5 years ago when I completely abandoned the English double-decker idea
GX GX47 Regular ·
😎 Ho putain, j'ai connu cette ambiance Dragst. et custom, il y à pratiquement 20ans, et faut pas en parler ici, tu me fous la tête à l'envers, déjà je reconstruis la MB custo légé. et depuis que le bus est parti, je jette de temps en temps un oeil dans Nitro (je pensais même pas que ce mag existait encore) alors MOLO, à 40 tu redeviens souvent aussi peu raisonnable qu'à 20 (avec en plus les ados qui te pousse au cul) et si je trouve une Camarro 67 Street ou une Mustang Mach1 boss 302 69 je pourrais faire une connerie surtout depuis que mon pot à emmener mon gamin faire un run avec sa Shelby GT c'est depuis 8 mois un sujet qui revient souvent...😐 aïe aïe aïe le portefeuille si je craque🤪...🙁 en plus j'ai plus le bus pour la tirrer🙁
GX47

ex transformation, homologation et utilisation d'un car en CC 9places route en utilisation pro. Plus un CC 6pl VL, plus un fourgon en cabine approfondie 6 pl VL. si je peu aider...
DY Dyker Regular ·
merci pour tes conseils qui font partir mon reve en fumée voici l'anonce qui m'avait fait flasher http://www.used-buses.net/srchdtl.asp?advnr=1337 un gmc 4104 de 1957 tout aménagé pour 15 000 $

donc si je comprend bien c'est sans espoir ? même en vehicule de collection?

j'ai une autre question, j'en suis au début de mon reve, et j'aimerai amenager un bus ou acheter un bus aménager pour emener mes 4 filles en vacances et parcourir avec elle toute l'europe (espagne italie, croatie, grece etc) ce qui fait pas mal de bornes en perspective

evidement avant de faire le choix d'un vehicule, déja amenagé ou a amenager, se pose le probleme de la consomation qui risque d'etre determinant dans mon choix par exemple 4000 km a 22 litres/100km cela fait 900€ rien que de carburant pour uu aler retour paris athene je me pose donc la question des consomation respective des differents vehicule les plus répendus renault fr1 volvo bm10 setra 215 etc.... je vais un appel a vos experience personnelles ce qui utilisent un bus, pouraient il répondre en indiquant leur consomation et le modéle.

je me pose evidement d'autre questions, comme quel sont les risques encouru si je roule au rouge? en france? et à l'étranger? si j'ai un webasto, et deux reservoirs, puis je en avoir légalement un des deux reservoirs rempli de rouge, et quand a rouler à l'huile comment faites vous pour vous approvisionner, combien ca coute, est ce légual etc....
GA Gasmobil Regular ·
Bonjour.

A part les S45 et S53 qui "NE" font que du 18/20 L/100 il faut plutot t'attendre à du 24 à 28 litres en ayant le pied leger, pas trop chargé, et pas de routes de montagnes .

Le "rouge" est hautement répréensible, sauf pour un groupe elec ou un webasto. Pour l'huile, outre le pb de la compatibilité moteur, la France est à la traine mais a laché du lest pour les véhicules de services publiques ne transportant pas de voyageurs. Mois déjà je serais plutot huile que rouge pour les risques encourus. Pour l'huile vas sur les sites comme: roule ma frite et oliomobile, tout y est expliqué. Pour le rouge, c'est les douannes qui t'arrettent, a l'époque du franc, l'amande était de 1 Franc par KM indiqué au compteur!!!

Reste le "Réacteur Pantone", voir les liens mis quelques pages avant, aller sur www.reactiondirect.org ou chercher sur google des infos concernant le sujet.

Cordialement, bon surf.
Eh ben, Ya du boulot!! http://www.aavl.fr http://gasmobil.skyrock.fr
HO Hotware Regular ·
Attention aux fausses bonnes idées ! Aménager un bus US, ca veut dire déja payer l'import ($5000 de cargo !) + voyage pour toi Ensuite, ces véhicules sont des gouffres financiers : tu ne trouveras aucune pièce ici, et leur conso est hallucinante. On voit souvent des véhicules qui bouffent 50 à 60l/100, et certains sont meme essence ! Celui que tu montres à 4 vitesse, si tu veux dépasser 70km/h tu oublies ! Sans etre mécano (et riche) ca me parait une folie totale.

Un S53 ou s45 plus récent, plus confortable, consomme presque rien (18 à 22l/100, contre 33l/100 pour le vanhool acron que j'ai pris) et tu trouveras des pièces pas trop cher. Y'a pleins de ces cars à - de 5000E en bon état chez les transporteurs.

Rouler au rouge, y'a un bon risque de te faire gauler (l'odeur du rouge est pas la meme dans la fumée). Si tu te fait gauler, tu paieras l'amende avec les douanes qui considères que tu as toujours fraudé et jamais mis une goute de gazoil (meme si tu as des preuves, ils s'en foutent), du coup tu vas sacrément douiller !

Le rouge "marque" le véhicule (durites, moteur, etc), et tu peux te faire gauler alors meme que tu as recommencé à rouler au blanc.

Tu peux avoir 2 réservoirs (webasto + groupe elec au rouge), mais ils ne doivent pas pouvoir communiquer entre eux. Vu le bruit des groupes diesel, j'ai choisi un honda essence silencieux (58dB) de 3000W, technologie inverter (le moteur ralentit quand le groupe est pas chargé), au final on s'y retrouve financièrement. J'ajouterais un reservoir pour l'essence.
Aménager un Camping-car dans un bus
FR François57 Regular ·
OK, le rouge laisse une trace en décolorant les tuyaux du moteur, etc... mais sur un chantier en usine, tu roule à ce que tu veux du moment que tu ne sors pas de l'enceinte privée de l'usine avec une camionnette par exemple... alors quand après 2-3 pleins de blanc tu ressort la camionnette et qu'il y a encore des traces, comment ca se passe dans le cas très hypothétique ou tu te ferais gauller? qu'en pense tu gasmobil?
HO Hotware Regular ·
A la limite tu auras le bénéfice du doute. Maintenant un car sur un chantier, je vois mal la justif ;) Par contre pour les tractos & cie ils ne les font pas chier.

Quand tu cherches à frauder, ils tapent. Gros soucis des douanes : amendes imprescriptibles. Ils peuvent venir 40 après chercher le pognon + interets.

Autant certains trucs on peut etre "limite légal", autant je chercherais pas à jouer avec les douanes. C'est des coups à te retrouver en fouille corporelle et compagnie. En plus, c'est du vol : la TIPP sert à payer l'entretien de nos routes (et y'a qu'a voir ailleurs, en france c'est franchement niquel !), sachant qu'un poids lourd l'use très nettement plus qu'un VL je trouve que la légère surconso + taxe essieu est justifiée et loin du coût réel.
Aménager un Camping-car dans un bus
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
choisi un bus qui a un moteur euro "quelque chose", et le quelque chose le plus grand possible!

se sont des classifications de normes de consomation et de faible polution. le mieux a l'heure actuelle, c'est le euro 4 (intouchable car uniquement sur des vehicules tres recents), mais si tu prends deja un euro 1 au lieu d'un rien du tout, la difference est enorme!

mon daf de 1988 de 11.4 litres en 6 cylindres en ligne avec sa boite ZF 6-90, fait dans les 23 litres (dixit les convoyeurs qui me l'ont ramené de bordeaux par le massif central! bon test!).

moins de 20 litres avec un s53, j'y crois pas... je veux bien qu'ils soient pas haut, mais quand meme!

par contre, le fr1 de famillede8, m'avait surpris! malgré ses presque 3.80 de haut ( c'est une version surelevée privilege), la conso n'avait pas passée le 25 litre de moyenne sur un montpellier - valence. le moteur n'as que 200 000 kms et c'est de l'euro 2, ca doit aider!

PATRICK26
CH Christobale Regular ·
Moi avec mon SETRA 213 HD de 1978 à moteur mercedes je tourne plutôt aux alentours de 30 litres. Pour l'huile effectivement c'est bien, attention tout de meme si tu prends un Euro 4 ou 5 tu oublies l'huile, sinon l'huver tu la dilue à 50% avec du gasoile, et l'été huile à 100% si colsat. Pour le rouge tu oublies car ça coûte tres cher...
PH Philip31 ·
salut patrick et tout le monde je survole le site depuis un bout de temps et j'adore pour le probleme de patrick, cela me fais penser aux retraits de permis francais qu'il est si facile d'eviter je m'explique, ton permis depuis l'ouverture de l'europe, tu le changes en permis roumain, allemand, belge ou autres assez facilement(residence + 6 mois chez un ami), ensuite tu t'en serts ici ou ailleurs, en europe, sans que la France puisse t'enlever des points, (document etranger) ou pour patrick, exiger une visite medicale ou autres tracasseries reste le probleme de l'assurance, mais pour l'autorisation de rouler, certains pays européens ne sont pas aussi exigeants que la france. esperant faire avancer le schmilblick philip31 Les lois ne sont-elles pas faites pour etre contournées ???
philip31
PI Piccin Regular ·
Les douanes font des differences pour ceux qui veulent frauder avec les carburants.Si vous etes une societé avec par exemple avec des vehicules roulants au rouge; attention au proces verbal et l amende qui va suivre.Pour un particulier beaucoup moins grave, j avais lu sur autoplus, si mais souvenirs sont bon, la somme dérisoire de 120 euros(sous reserve ).En ce qui conserne les huiles végétales difficile de verbaliser a cause de l europe. Deplus elle est melangée à 30, 40% au gasoil, elle peut etre considerée comme additif pétrolier. si je retrouve les articles je les mets en pieces jointes.
HO Hotware Regular ·
L'huile est effectivement considérée comme additif, mais les douanes portent plainte quand meme. Après ils perdent, mais faut avoir envie.... Autant attendre la transposition de la directive européene.

Le rouge par contre, je connais un copain qui en mettait, il s'est retrouvé avec une amende astronomique, ils ont pas pris en compte sa conso (il roulait "pépère") mais une estimation super grande, sur la totalité des bornes de sa bagnole. Il a fini avec un pret pour payer l'amende, et il roule gentillement au gasoil.

Autoplus est quand meme un sacré torchon, l'equivalent de "Gala" dans la presse auto. Autant l'AC et leur mag "auto moto" est vendu aux pétroliers, autant auto + publie tout et n'importe quoi (tant que ca fait vendre)
Aménager un Camping-car dans un bus
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Il y a aussi les cas de force majeure qu'il faut savoir invoquer!

si tu te fait pincer avec le reservoir plein de fioul, dificile de s'en sortir, mais si tu te fait pincer avec un font de reservoir ou des residus dans les durites, personne ne peut t'empecher d'invoquer la force majeure:

je suis tombé en panne de carburant en pleine campagne, et un paysan m'a depanné avec du rouge! vu la taille de mon vehicule je bouchait une artere comunale, il fallait bien liberer la circulation!

au pire, on te demandera de fournir une attestation du paysan, a toi de te demerder!

PATRICK26
KA Kartmobile ·
😉 SALUT LES AS BLEUS !

Je ne suis pas un pros de l'informatique et c'est un essai pour ce soir. J'ai visité votre site très intéressant et je me suis aperçu qu'il existe 125 pages à découvrir. Me concernant nous avons en famille acheté un gros truc à roues, et naturellement de nombreuses questions comme tout le monde à vous poser. En attendant passez une bonne soirée et je vous dis à demain peut-être. Philippe CHARLOT www.kartalakarte.com

Me revoilà, bonjour à tous.

Nous venons d'acheter un VAN HOOL de 82 places que nous voulons commencé par équipé. Toutefois des questions qui me permettront suivant vos réponses de choisir entre la carte grise camping ou car actuellement. Merci d'avance pour votre coup d'informatique, je serais heureux de vous aider aussi, notamment pour des W.C. écologiques, mieux que chimique et marin !!!!!

Désignations Homologation CAR Homologation CAMPING CAR

Accès aux centres villes ? OUI ! NON sauf autorisation ! Contrôle technique ? 6 mois 1 an Taxe à l'essieu ? Tarif taxe à l'essieu ? Peut-on roulé le dimanche ? Faut-il deamnder une licence privée à la DRE ? Chronotackygraphe ? OUI ! NON ! Nombre de passagers y compris conducteur ? Peut-on tourner de sens un escalier ? Homologation ? Si camping-car on peut pas revenir en arrière! Permis Philippe E.C. ! X Permis Valérie E.D. ! X

J'ai apporté des réponses, sont-elles bonnes ? Le premier niveau on souhaite aménager cuisine et salon éventuellement mini-bar pour vous accueillir l'année prochaine. Le deuxième niveau, cabines, salle de bain et W.C. écologique.

Nous prévoyons une remorque de 3.5 t de 6 mètres de long et entre le porte skis.

Pour ces deux niveaux, existe t-il un chauffage et climatisation de qualité ? car ce car ! sera habitable pour l'année. Il y a-t-il une réglementation pour les eaux usées, laquelle ?

Merci pour vos réponses, notre véhicule se trouve en Seine & Marne, et dès l'année prochaine nous suivons en famille notre société mobile. Nous aurons le plaisir de vous accueillir à bord ! Recevez mes hautes salutations, Philippe
GA Gasmobil Regular ·
Bonjour. Je ne travaille pas aux douanes mais d'après mes infos, oui tu peut rouler au rouge que chez toi, ou lieu privé. Toléré que pour les engins de chantier ou engins agricoles, PAS de vehicules, en aucun cas!!!

Cordialement.
Eh ben, Ya du boulot!! http://www.aavl.fr http://gasmobil.skyrock.fr
CH Christobale Regular ·
Il est à savoir qu'il existe quelques exceptions pour le rouge, les cirques, certains métiers forains, mais pas plus...
PI Piét4N ·
Coucou tous !

Voici mes réponses aux questions de Kartmobile, qui décidément a de la volonté pour entreprendre de faire un camping bus à deux étages, malgré ce qu'on en dit ici... Kartmobile, si t'y arrives et que tu en es content après deux ans d'utilisation, je ne pourrai que t'en féliciter.

Désignations Homologation CAR Homologation CAMPING CAR

Accès aux centres villes ? oui, sauf bien sûr restrictions dimensionnelles. Contrôle technique ? 1 an, comme tous les PL. Tarif taxe à l'essieu ? Non, même pour les ferrys. Peut-on roulé le dimanche ? oui Faut-il deamnder une licence privée à la DRE ? non Chronotackygraphe ? non Nombre de passagers y compris conducteur ? 9 maximum Peut-on tourner de sens un escalier ? oui. Si ça suppose de modifier un élément structurel du bus, il faut qd mm demander l'autorisation au constructeur. Homologation ? je crois que c'est pas possible d'obtenir une carte TCP avec un véhicule qui a une carte PL VASP. Par contre, théoriquement c'est possible de passer d'une catégorie à l'autre à l'intérieur des PL VASP, mais c'est dur. Permis Philippe E.C. ! tu pourras conduire le bus avec remorque après avoir obtenu ta nouvelle carte grise CC. Permis Valérie E.D. ! elle peut conduire le bus tant qu'il a encore tous ses sièges.

Remarque sur les permis : et entre les deux comment on fait ? réponse : on le fait conduire par un garagiste PL qui a un W, ce qui l'autorise à conduire un véhicule non conforme à sa carte grise.

Bon courage !

Piéton
DY Dyker Regular ·
en ce qui concerne le fait de se faire prendre avec du rouge, 1 j'ai parcouru des centaines de milliers de km en voiture et pas une seule fois je n'ai eu de controle de carburant certains d'entre vous se sont il deja fait controler 2 j'avais entendu dire que l'amende etait calculé sur la base de 2, 5 x la capacitée totale des reservoirs du vehicules

ence qui concerne le fait de rouler a l'huile il semblerait que cela soit légal dans d'autres pays d'europe (la belgique par exempe). je ne vois pas ce que pourait dire un douanier sur un vehicule equipé de deux reservoir dont un rempli de gazole et l'autre d'huile avec un comutateur manuel au tableau de bord. Ben oui monsieur le douanier, vous avez parfaitement raison, je viens d'acheter 400 litre d'huile a 70 cts, c'est en prevision d'un prochain voyage en belgique

a ce propos, j'ai entendu dire que le fr1 avait deux reservoir de 400 l qu'en est il du s53?
PI Piccin Regular ·
dans les travaux public il existe des 6x4 avec 2 types de reservoirs l un pour la voie publique (gasoil) et l autre pour les chantier (rouge)avec un bipasse qui permet de permuter.on peut en abuser mais bon, a eviter...
CU Cunni Regular ·
J'espère que votre bus ne dépasse pas 12m de long car dans le cas contraire il ne pourra pas être homologué en PL, contrairement au TCP: la loi en France interdit les poids lourd de plus de 12m de long, sauf si ils sont articulés.

Quel est votre modèle de Vanhool ? pouvez-vous publier qq photos ?

PS. la musique sur votre site de kart à la carte est BEAUCOUP TROP FORTE !! 😛
http://forum.tousencar.com
KA Kartmobile ·
Bonjour à tous les piétons à moins que tu sois tout seul!

Merci pour les infos, et si on laissait en CAR ?

Je reparts, je fais au mieux pour joindre des photos, mais pour quelle raison je serais déçu de mon motor-home ?

Merci pour toutes ces infos, et des autres à venir

Hautes salutations. Philippe kartalakarte
KA Kartmobile ·
😏 Hello to the second pedestrian!!!

Ah! yes yes, it's over 12 meters—I'd say 13 for the bathroom!

Model ASTOMEGA 82403 put on the road in '89, photos a bit later.

As for the music, it's a bit surprising—we'll definitely change it later.

Thanks pedestrian! for your visit and your comments that I'll take into account. See you soon! Philippe www.kartalakarte.com
GA Gasmobil Regular ·
Hello. I agree with Cunni.

To get a 13-meter motorhome in the PL Type category certified, it's going to be quite tricky, as they say. Well, there's a beginning to everything and exceptions that prove the rules.

In my opinion, you should have asked for the information before buying.

For this kind of fairly specialized problem, you'd need to check with Mr. GUYEZ (06 84 00 18 71) — he's the guy who handles complicated certifications. I think it's going to be tough!!

Sincerely.
Eh ben, Ya du boulot!! http://www.aavl.fr http://gasmobil.skyrock.fr
DY Dyker Regular ·
I read this story on a forum and found it really interesting http://www.oliomobile.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=89539&sid=ff69b6035fae4b306d6c4dad10ac6b17 It's the story of a guy who's in the habit of putting 30% oil in his fuel tank. As a result, he always has oil cans with him. He got caught twice by customs—once in September 2005 with a car and 55 liters of oil in cans, resulting in a 33 euro fine corresponding to a fuel tax adjustment, plus three hours of hassle with the customs officers. And once in May 2006 with a heavy goods vehicle with 40 liters—an amicable settlement with customs for 150 euros.

Given the fuel consumption of buses and the trivial fines, I think it's worth the risk. It seems that under directive 2003/30/CE of May 8, 2003, running on oil is no longer prohibited. This directive applies as of right in France since January 1, 2005 by virtue of case law according to which national authorities of Member States must disregard the application of national law if it is not compatible with the objectives of a directive that was not transposed within the deadline or was poorly transposed.

The only risk, of course, concerns the difficulty of proving you've properly paid the fuel taxes.

Finally, here's a court ruling I found online: http://www.alterenergies.org/dev/docs/2007-01-delibere-proces-lambert.pdf The individual had a fuel tax adjustment of 22 euros and a 150 euro fine. He took the case to court against the Ministry of Economy and Finance. He obtained reimbursement of his legal fees and reimbursement of the 150 euro fine. The 22 euro adjustment remained his responsibility.....

I think it's worth the risk.... If others have counter-examples, like vehicle seizure, exorbitant fines, etc., they're welcome to share.
DY Dyker Regular ·
the only risk is of course the difficulty of proving you've properly paid fuel taxes.

so here's my idea for running on oil legally – tell me what you think

1 I install a dual-fuel kit on the bus that runs 100% on oil, basically there are two tanks: one large one for oil, and an additional one for diesel that's only used while the engine reaches its normal temperature, then a temperature exchanger heats the oil and the engine can run on oil

2 I make sure to have a manual switch within reach

3 I'll fill the large tank at a pump in Germany yes, you're not dreaming – in Germany they actually sell oil at gas station pumps (€0.70–€0.85/L)

4 of course I get an official receipt showing the local VAT

5 I drive on oil in France because it's not forbidden

6 in case of a customs check, I explain the situation a) according to the EU directive, running on oil is not forbidden b) I've paid all the necessary taxes, since I legally bought the product at a pump in Germany and I have the receipt c) if they ask why my tank is 80% full of oil when my receipt is from two years ago and I'm 1,000 km from the German border, well, I'll tell the truth – that with the dual-fuel system I run most of the time (at least in France) on diesel from my smaller tank.

7 I don't forget to do an official top-up each time I go on vacation in a country where it's possible

what do you think?
CU Cunni Regular ·
In response to KARTMOBILE is this the one? (click on the image), does it come from abroad? That's going to complicate the certification... The listing doesn't state the exact model, but if it's a TD824 like the one on motorhome OK 12m, on the other hand, I have the answer to one of my questions: apparently it uses 30-32L per 100km.

When you convert a bus into a motorhome, it must be certified by the DRIRE which reclassifies it from TCP (public transport) to VASP (specialized motor vehicle) and supposedly in France a VASP can't be longer than 12m like trucks. A link: http://merco.aceboard.fr/...ories-dimensions.htm

A page with double-decker bus models: http://coaches-aplenty.fotopic.net/c199319.html

P.S. The music is nice, it's just the volume that's surprising, especially if you're checking the site at work...
http://forum.tousencar.com
CU Cunni Regular ·
In response to fr129 What's the total length of your bus + trailer together? And which category does it fit into?:

Tractor+trailer: 16.50M Road train: 18.75M

(see this link: http://merco.aceboard.fr/...es-dimensions.htm#vb )
http://forum.tousencar.com
FR François57 Regular ·
Yeah, yeah, it's been said multiple times that 12m is the maximum... but when we talk about a heavy vehicle, it's usually a truck registered for freight transport. You can probably work around that... but anyway, do your homework before you tackle the heavy work.

As for licensing, that's what makes the charm of our beautiful country: the vehicle is basically identical, but your wife can only drive it if she has a category C license, which she normally got just before category D if she drives heavy buses (most people do). Though I do know that a category E(C) license automatically gives you E(D), but not the other way around. On the other hand, you won't be able to drive it until you've done a conversion to fewer than 9 seats. Also watch out for the bus's authorized rolling weight. Your trailer must be at most the difference between the bus's authorized rolling weight and its authorized maximum weight.

Between the two, you have to follow the bus's inspection schedule (it's only logical), which means every 6 months at around €30 extra. Same thing if you keep it registered as a bus, with tachograph inspection every 2 years and speed limiter checks (I can't remember the exact interval).

In that case, you'll still need to do a conversion that meets both bus regulations (original seats at original locations) and campervan regulations (because of gas, electrical, and various fittings), since you're modifying the original layout. You risk getting an inspection with an S rating (permission to drive, but you need to retest the following month), etc.

With my Saviem, I burned through 32 liters to drive from Charleville to Hettange, which is exactly 20 liters per 100km.

If you don't mind asking, how much did you pay for it? And what's its fuel consumption, and do you know any ways to save on maintenance costs?

Catch you later.
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Alright, here are my answers—a good refresher!

Access to city centers? YES! NO, except with authorization!

Only signs with weight limits or width/height restrictions forbid access to any location once homologated as a motorhome. A motorhome is classified as M3 (passenger vehicle), so all heavy vehicle and bus restrictions don't apply to us! So yes!

Technical inspection? 6 months to 1 year

One year like any heavy vehicle, once homologated!

Axle tax?

No axle tax in M3 class

Axle tax rate?

Off-topic then.

Can you drive on Sundays?

Yes, like any passenger vehicle! M3!

Do you need a private license from the DRE?

I don't see what you're talking about!

Tachograph? YES! NO!

Have you ever seen a tachograph on a passenger vehicle? I haven't!

Number of passengers including the driver?

Max 8 plus 1 driver, so 9 total. Like all M3 class vehicles.

Can you rotate a staircase?

Yes, as long as you don't touch the structure, otherwise get the manufacturer's authorization and have the work done by a professional.

Homologation? If it's a motorhome, you can't go back!

A declassified commercial bus can never become a commercial bus again!

Philippe's E.C. license! X

You'll drive it once the vehicle is homologated!

Valérie's E.D. license! X

You drive it until the first seat is removed!

Between the two cases, only a mechanic in a garage can move it!

There are my answers! But you have another problem—a big one! Your bus is over 12m! The only one I know who might have a solution is Guyez Conseil! And even then! Don't remove anything, you'll probably have to sell it! You went a bit too fast! Read this forum, take your time to not make big mistakes! And if you say we'll leave it as a commercial bus while converting it, know that it'll be just as difficult! No gas (forbidden in a bus), you'll have to leave at least 9 passenger seats besides the driver, respect all the commercial bus regulations (driving time, prohibition on Sundays, etc...), good luck!

Last question: what's your VanHool's GVWR? Because just because it has a hitch doesn't mean it can tow heavy! Have you checked if it can tow your big trailer? On 13m generally, it's 1500 kg, that seems low for your needs!

PATRICK26
PI Piét4N ·
Yes ! I got everything right: 20/20. That was great!

Piéton
FR François57 Regular ·
Yes, but yours is 12.20 meters, right? That's what you said when you bought it. So do they account for a small tolerance? Or when you talk about refusals beyond 12m, is it actually 13m or 13.50?
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
That's what we thought when we bought it (with that famous rear flip door we were going to remove anyway) and then no, it's 11.95 m long, 2.50 m wide, and 3.08 m high!

So I have 5 cm for the hitch base, and a bit left over for the awning!

What bliss! This bus was made to be converted! Since then, I've learned that guys from northern countries head to Spain to buy DAF 2100 chassis (mine) and 2300 ones—the same with rear engines—and MAN chassis in Spain! They cut up the body on-site and take only the chassis! Then they rebuild heavy-duty campervans on top of that!

gasmobil was with me when the little Spanish woman told us that over the phone—we were blown away!

Man, those northern folks don't mess around!

PATRICK26
KA Kartmobile ·
Hello, everyone.

I found it! Length 12,000 mm, width 2,500 mm, whooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PTAC 22,750 kg PTRA 26,250 kg so a 3.5-ton trailer possible, planned for 6 m long.

Type 82403 I think (to verify) model TD 284

Price €32,500 before tax.

I'll explain: because of our KART A LA KART activity, we have a semi-trailer (former Intermarché) with a motorhome for our staff. We're traveling as a family with our 2-year-old son, which is why we decided to buy this bus and convert it into a studio apartment (because a woman always needs more space than we do!). Anyway, there are two options: either the company reimburses me for the bus investment and I deduct a monthly fee; or we keep the bus, convert it, and the company reimburses us a fee (unlikely). That's why I listed the amount before tax. VAT-inclusive = €6,000 more.

As for the trailer, we haven't bought it yet—it would be a food and beverage setup that we'd put on the kart track.

So this vehicle will serve us as private accommodation, possibly for an employee, as a professional office, for client reception, and as advertising support like the car on the website.

Actually, I need to know the difference in the vehicle's classification—whether we leave it as a bus or convert it to a motorhome. Of course, if it's fully part of the company, maybe there are additional costs, e.g., DRE?

The vehicle looks pretty much like Cunni's photo, congratulations!

Fuel consumption, I haven't evaluated it, but 30 to 35 liters/100 km.

For maintenance, I don't have a supplier yet, a shame—anyone???

For TCP, should we keep, besides the driver: 9 or 8 seats? Or where can we find all the regulations for TCP, the advantages and disadvantages compared to VASP?

Well, there you have it, I'm happy with my 12 meters, what a crazy ride!!

Happy to have made your acquaintance, see you soon. Philippe

😉 www.kartalakarte.com
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
Alright, I'll come clean – since you seem like the impatient type, I was playing up the mystery a bit, but I've been sure it was only 12m since you mentioned the ski box above the drawbar. Only 12m gets that, and 1 meter deep max! 😉

If you're going to do the work anyway, here's what I'd do: convert it to Heavy Goods Vehicle class so you land in M3 and can drive whenever you want – no tachograph, etc.

For a project like this, contact Guyez Conseil on behalf of us VoyageForum folks – they'll welcome you. Plus, he's the certifier for Van Hool in France for special conversions.

On the business side: with fixed assets, depreciation, and those new mileage reimbursement rules for business owners from the January 2006 Finance Act (still in effect and will be for a while, I reckon), I'd put the bus in the company name – even if you have to go through your personal manager account with a non-capital contribution (that way you can pull it out later). You loan it to your company in exchange for maintenance, or you can lease it. Check with your legal advisor. One last thing: under HGV (M3 class), your company won't need a tax disc for this vehicle. Under the other structure, yes – only light vehicles are exempt! And tour vehicles! And considering the cost relative to horsepower...

PATRICK26
PI Piét4N ·
Hey everyone!

A quick post to let you know there's an awesome music festival this weekend in Angers!

Sure, music is great, but it doesn't belong here, you might say. Except there's also the yellow restaurant bus that GX47 has talked about several times! So it's open to visitors, and you can even grab some crepes until Saturday evening on Quai Ligny in Angers. Some of you might be interested in this... More info: www.centralbus.info

Piéton
JE Jerry34 ·
🙂 Hello everyone,

just a quick hello to share my joy with everyone because I just passed step #2 out of 3, namely the technical inspection. May 10 VERITAS OK May 18 TECHNICAL INSPECTION OK with grade A Now I need to finalize the paperwork to get an appointment with DRIRE I don't know if the hardest part is still to come but it's quite exhausting for my blood pressure which has dropped. Well, we'll see, I hope they'll be nice in MONTPELLIER ???

See you soon 😛
PA Patrick26 Veteran ·
So if the first 2 inspections went well, you just need to stay calm!

Bring the standards you relied on with you—they might not have them!

Don't be too rigid about it. If there's a point of disagreement between you and them, refer back to the standards you followed. Show them in the standards you brought. Then it'll be up to them to prove that the standards you used aren't correct.

But reassure yourself—90% of the work is done!

The hard points will be: sheet metal if you've done repairs or drilled large openings; and seating if they're not original bus seats in the original mounting points.

And even so, if it's done properly, there's nothing to worry about... it's not like a Nuremberg war crimes tribunal!

Relax and take it easy, knowing your file well so you can, at worst, discuss the technical points.

PATRICK26
CU Cunni Regular ·
Chemical toilets at LIDL for 50: http://www.lidl.fr/...lettes_chimiques.ar5
http://forum.tousencar.com
JE Jerry34 ·
🙂 Hello,

For my conversion, I didn't cut any windows, and apart from the ventilation, I haven't made any holes in the bodywork. Regarding the seating, I used the original seats with their original mounts, so normally no problem. I'll try to post some photos!

Talk soon JERRY34
XL Xl38 ·
Hi everyone. I'm really interested in getting a motorhome bus, but I don't want to do the conversion myself. I'm looking for a company that can do it for me.

So, do you know of any bus converters who could turn one into a motorhome? Do you have any website links to share, please?

I've looked into it and I've also seen quite a few interesting used options, but I prefer custom work.

By the way, I've read a few pages of this thread, and I found it really interesting. It's actually the only place on the web with so much information about bus motorhomes. Thanks to you all! ;-)
MR Mrkonn Regular ·
😉Hi everyone, back after a few weeks away.

Xl38 if you look back a few pages there's a pro at fitting out but what a joy to do it yourself.

Congratulations JERRY34 you can break out the bottle 🤪 for me the hardest part is veritas.

Cunni, searching online you can find the same toilet that Pandree and I have at 70 NEURONE, you can see it on his blog http://pandree.skyblog.com/10.html

There you go, otherwise the bus is coming along nicely 😛
JE Jerry34 ·
🙂 Hi, hey mrkonn - about the bottle, I think that can wait a bit longer since I still need to get through DRIRE.

What's your issue with VERITAS? 😮

Xl38, mrkonn's absolutely right, "what a joy doing it yourself" 😛

See you later, JERRY34 😉
XL Xl38 ·
Re

I found this site in the previous pages: http://www.carriage-rv.com/ Is this the one you were telling me about? In any case, they have some beautiful builds.

Do it yourself? I don't have any knowledge in this area.
JE Jerry34 ·
🙂 Me neither, I had no knowledge in this field, I'm just a DIYer. You should check out mrkonn's blog, you'll see it's fabulous, then there are other blogs, notably patrick26's or FR159's or others, you just have to search. There's lots of tips on the forum, lots of smart advice on what to do or what not to do.

Just one question: Is it possible to cut an original window to insert a sliding window? If yes, how can I do it? 🤪 Thanks in advance,

Best regards,

JERRY34 😛

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