Currency exchange while traveling: why do some still carry wads of cash?
FR

Translated into English.

OB Obeoandpai Globetrotter ·
Is it better to pay in cash, by card, or with Apple Pay?

Not Apple! Not Apple!

😏
Mon YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/voyageurasie/videos?view_as=subscriber
LU Ludomero Veteran ·
I’m one of those people who really hesitate to pay by card, even in my own country (France). So far, I’ve managed to avoid it, except for two bad experiences where I ran into shady merchants—one charged my card when I’d only given it as a guarantee, and the other went ahead and did his online shopping with my card.

But it’s not just about distrusting merchants’ honesty.

I’m increasingly uncomfortable with how dematerialized the world is becoming. Plus, automatic debits have already made budgeting so confusing that I don’t want to add card payments to the mix.

Oops, I forgot about online card payments: unfortunately, I don’t always have a choice, and some items I can only find through e-commerce, which requires a card. I got a virtual card to limit risks, but that doesn’t solve the problem of keeping track of my budget. Before, it was simple: regular cash withdrawals of the same amount for daily expenses, and for exceptional expenses, checks where the amount, payee, and purpose were recorded and filed chronologically in a stub for easy tracking.

But things aren’t getting any better. Recently, a relative had all their accounts frozen due to a tax authority error, and I’ve had my own Kafkaesque experiences with tax services and my bank. That’s why I’ve gone back to doing what our ancestors did—stashing cash "just in case."

Of course, if I’m trekking in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the world, where ATMs aren’t always available, card payments aren’t always accepted, and walking home isn’t an option, I make sure to carry enough to handle emergencies. Yes, I take my card (I only have one, and it already stresses me out), but I also have enough to get by without it for a while.

For now, I’m leaning more toward going back to gold coins than toward using more cards.
"La seule chose dont on soit sûr, en ce qui concerne l'avenir, c'est qu'il n'est jamais conforme à nos prévisions." (Jean Dutourd)
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
this doesn’t solve the problem of how hard it’s become for me to keep track of my budget

I really don’t see the issue???

My grandma had a notebook where she jotted down her income and expenses. Like this:

Pension 7800 (francs...) bread 1 Eggs 3 France Télécom 200

Whether the 1, the 3, or the 200 was cash, a check, a card payment, or a direct debit didn’t matter.

I still keep this kind of journal—just a bit simpler—for vacations. I know where I stand.

You must be bad at math, right?😉

It goes without saying that if I’m trekking in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the world, where ATMs aren’t always around, card payments aren’t always accepted, and walking home isn’t an option, I make sure to have enough cash on me to handle a bunch of emergencies.

That wasn’t the point. A traveler rarely lands straight in a time-warped zone. Where does the money they need to cover expenses *there* come from? That was the topic... From an ATM at the airport or in the arrival city? From a currency exchange office (which you also have to locate, since they’re not everywhere, just like ATMs)? From exchanging money before leaving your home country?

And why choose one over the other?

So far, it’s mostly a matter of habit. Travelers—myself included—are creatures of routine.
LU Ludomero Veteran ·
My grandmother had a notebook where she recorded her income and expenses.\nLike this:\n\nPension 7800 (francs...) bread 1\nEggs 3\nFrance Télécom 200\n\nWhether the 1st, the 3rd, or the 200th were cash, checks, a card, or a direct debit, it made no difference.\n\nBefore:\n_One withdrawal per week for the same amount\n_Payments by check noted and filed chronologically as they happened, with the details I found relevant.\n\nNow:\n_Withdrawals still fairly regular (though larger recently, since the difficulty in withdrawing cash makes me stock up for future trips and to guard against bank or tax errors, for example)\n_Payments by check when I can for non-routine expenses (increasingly rare)\n_Automatic debits that require extra monitoring to ensure a given company doesn’t overstep its bounds (happened this week)\n_E-card payments whose purpose I forget when I read my bank statement\n\nBefore, to get an idea of what I’d spent in a month, I just had to glance at my checkbook stub. Now, I also have to turn on my computer, enter annoying usernames and secret codes to access scattered information that’s not presented the way I’d like—and on top of that, it exposes me to hacking risks (I’ve already had a Trojan on my computer from a "trusted" source).\n\nA traveler rarely arrives directly in a time-warped zone.\nWhere does the money they need to cover expenses in that zone come from?\nThat was the topic...\nFrom an ATM at the airport or in the arrival city?\nFrom a currency exchange office (which also needs to be located, since like ATMs, they’re not everywhere)?\nFrom an earlier exchange in their home country?\n\nIf the traveler in question is spending a long time "in the middle of nowhere," they might not want to spend several days in the big arrival city just to withdraw stacks of cash, especially since daily and weekly withdrawal limits are capped. So in that case, if their name is Ludoméro, they’ll bring stacks of cash obtained with great difficulty in their home country.\n\nSo far, it’s mainly a lifestyle habit that dictates each person’s choice.\nTravelers, including me, are creatures of habit.\n\nYes, routine plays a big role—it’s a way to lighten the mental load.
"La seule chose dont on soit sûr, en ce qui concerne l'avenir, c'est qu'il n'est jamais conforme à nos prévisions." (Jean Dutourd)
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Currently: _ fairly regular cash withdrawals (though more significant recently, the difficulty in withdrawing leading me to stockpile for future trips and to guard against bank or tax errors, for example) _ check payments when possible for non-recurring expenses (increasingly rare) _ automatic debits that require special monitoring to ensure a given debtor doesn’t overstep their bounds (happened this week) _ e-card payments whose purpose I forget when I read my bank statement

You’re spending too much...

I honestly don’t get your stress at all.

he might not necessarily want to spend several days in the big arrival city just to withdraw stacks of cash, ........he’ll board with stacks of cash obtained with great difficulty in his home country.

Either way, it’s not easy...

Just check your card’s website for ATM locations, save them on a site like Maps.me, and you’re done in 2 minutes.

his daily and weekly withdrawal limits being capped.

A limit is flexible. Just ask your banker to adjust it.

I think some of your issues stem from not being comfortable with computers.🙂
SI Sissi57 Globetrotter ·
There's one aspect we haven't touched on: the fees that cards impose on merchants. Eventually, merchants will inevitably be tempted to raise their prices to offset the loss caused by these fees. We keep hearing about "free" cards for users, but it's a mirage—there's no such thing as free services... Paying in cash incurs no fees for either the customer or the seller....
Je n'aurai pas le temps...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Cash isn’t free either. And not just for the consumer, but for society as a whole.

It encourages fraud. And who pays for fraud?

All of us...

Cash assumes a level of virtue that’s too often lacking.
VA Vaikeaiti Regular ·
Hello,

Why do you assume bad intentions from others, especially those who pay in cash rather than by card? Aren’t you just playing the virtue teacher?

Moana
VM
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Because it's kind of the field I'm immersed in...

Life in all its forms teaches you quickly not to be naive.

I even think we've all cheated at some point or another. Some even brag about it.
PO Poticar Regular ·
Because it’s kind of the field I work in...

... I even think we’ve all cheated at some point or another. Some people even brag about it.

I feel like you’re undermining your own point. Your arguments, like the one about the moving cap (in your previous message), don’t really hold up. For example, after adjustments, the cap is modified but it’s still there. So...?
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
I don’t quite see the connection between a credit card’s spending limit and the minor and major tax evasion involving VAT, income tax, corporate tax, social security contributions, etc.?
PO Poticar Regular ·
Dear Attila, We’re getting into moral questions here... What’s the topic?
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
One topic can go off in all directions. And there’s a link between fraud and the original subject.

That link was even mentioned in the introduction.

Hello everyone, In an era of zero-commission cards and fee-free accounts, I wonder why some travelers still prefer to carry a wallet full of cash and exchange it on the spot? I get the appeal for those who earn undeclared income, but what about everyone else?

Shall we start over?
VA Vaikeaiti Regular ·
Hi there,

You know, like all of us, that Virtue (with a capital V) is out of reach for imperfect humans like we all are at one point or another... Even you! I don’t consider it illegal or immoral to pay my expenses abroad—or even in France—in US dollars or euros. This money belongs to me, and I didn’t steal it from anyone... It’s really France in the age of permanent suspicion—all of this! My neighbor has more than I do, drives a BMW while I only have a Citroën, he goes to Canada with his family while I spend my vacations in the Creuse at the family house, so obviously, it’s all suspicious!!! He must be cheating, he has hidden income... Some of you have probably seen Americans pulling out wads of bills from their pockets, sometimes $100 bills (in casinos, for example), and this massive use of cash doesn’t seem to bother the IRS. So why all this hysteria and cheap moralizing from our politicians across the board? Let’s also note that banks—which barely make money by skimming their customers’ savings accounts—are raking it in with those "painless" fees (until you get the bill once a year) generated by the relentless use of credit cards, even for paying the baker... It’s absurd! The shared guilt we all feel—enough already! Let us live and spend our money as we see fit. And let the State focus on real fraudsters (including those in white collars)... In this era of technological (cameras) and digital surveillance (state spyware), freedom and democracy are under threat. When an all-powerful State meddles in everything (I saw this in Norway, for example, the proclaimed paragon of the most advanced democracy), it’s hard not to think of George Orwell...

Moana
VM
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
You really have no idea about the global scale of dirty money? 😮

It has nothing to do with my neighbor, my boss, or my cat.

You can honestly own a Ferrari and dishonestly own a Dacia. And vice versa.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Good evening,

Could you give me your definition of "dirty" money? Earned dishonestly? According to what, in whose eyes? How many states that lecture others on morality when preaching to those who finance and support them behave completely differently when acting on their own behalf? Honest or not—according to whom? The state? The tax authorities? Heaven?

You really have no idea about the global scale of dirty money? 😮 It has nothing to do with my neighbor, my boss, or my cat. You can own a Ferrari honestly and a Dacia dishonestly. And vice versa.

Michel
PO Poticar Regular ·
Attila! You're going off-topic... And you're breaking down open doors.
SI Sissi57 Globetrotter ·
I still feel like a bit of a professional deformation makes you somewhat Torquemada-like.
Je n'aurai pas le temps...
VA Vaikeaiti Regular ·
Actually, I have a Dacia. but I’m being totally honest.....😏

Moana
VM
VA Vaikeaiti Regular ·
It's me again...

What’s the point of playing the knight in shining armor if it just makes you sick, unsatisfied, and bitter? The world’s imperfect—you can’t fix it all by yourself! 🤪 Now, if you’re a tax agent, a finance inspector, a brilliant IT specialist recruited by the Ministry of Finance, or even a professional hacker working for the government, then go for it and catch those who push the limits. And if you want and can afford the Ferrari of your dreams, don’t hesitate. It’s still allowed... It’s just fun, and life’s short. 😎

Moana
VM
PO Poticar Regular ·
You're right, it was mentioned in the introduction. But here I’m wondering: should this aspect of the topic (tax fraud) really have a place in a discussion about travel?

And I’m curious if this angle (the possibility of "hiding" money in various ways) was actually picked up or understood by the debaters, since it’s only becoming clear now. To me, it feels like a drift away from the forum’s spirit (if I’m wrong, I’ll "hide" myself...).

--

And there is a link between fraud and the original topic.

This link was even pointed out in the introduction.
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
Cash isn’t free either.

Cash is profitable... for central banks that create money out of thin air. And financial institutions like commercial banks are forced to borrow, even with low interest rates. The more cash there is, the more it encourages people to consume. So yes, consumers end up in debt for it.

It’s an incentive for fraud...

I wrote this in another discussion thread—someone even dismissed my point rudely. It’s clear that the more cash there is, the more it fuels the underground economy and all kinds of trafficking. The underground economy (drug trafficking, etc.) involves billions of euros. It’s in the interest of governments and central banks to eliminate cash so they can better control money circulation.
HE Henon21 Veteran ·
Hi there

"The informal economy (drug trafficking, etc.) generates billions of euros"

It still exists, but with risks. Even more profitable now: illegal immigration, smuggler networks, human trafficking of women and children, etc., with fewer risks involved.
HENON Eric
LU Ludomero Veteran ·
I’ll admit, I don’t understand your stress at all.😮

The fact that we’re in a society that forces us to increase our payment methods—and thus the risk of potential "leaks"—actually stresses me out. I found things simpler when I only had a checkbook to check to get an idea of where I stood, and I could travel to the other side of the world without worrying that someone would drain my account using my banking details (just learned today that a large, unexplained withdrawal is happening on my account—cool) or credit card.

You just have to check your card’s website to see where the ATMs are, save them on a site like Maps.me, and boom—done in 2 minutes.

I’ll admit, I didn’t quite get your response here. 😐 Finding ATMs isn’t the issue for me—it’s finding ones that dispense large bills that’s tricky (and I don’t know any site that provides that info).

I think part of your problems comes from the fact that you’re not comfortable with computers.🙂

True, I’m not comfortable with computers—these things that, overnight, can destroy or hand over to a criminal what you’ve entrusted to them. Plus, I’m burned out on passwords. 🏴‍☠️
"La seule chose dont on soit sûr, en ce qui concerne l'avenir, c'est qu'il n'est jamais conforme à nos prévisions." (Jean Dutourd)
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Hi there,

Even if someone manages to steal your online banking login details, don’t assume they’d drain your account so easily: they’d need to set up an external transfer, confirm it by SMS, and daily transfer limits apply... In some countries—especially in the north or the East—it’s getting tricky to avoid using a card. For example, the other day, I wanted to buy a local SIM card, and I had no choice. Clearly, no one uses cash for that kind of thing anymore.

Michel
PO Poticar Regular ·
...to central banks that create money ex nihilo out of nothing.

A country’s banks don’t just do whatever they want—they’re subject to rules. Adjusting the money supply with the central bank’s approval, in the interest of the economy (of a country), within a well-defined legal framework, when conditions are met, and within authorized debt ratio limits—is that creating money "out of nothing"? No, unless you’re using ambiguous terms. Money creation by banks is therefore part of necessary financial policy; it’s not some reckless gamble.
PO Poticar Regular ·
... you have to set up an external transfer, you need SMS confirmation, the amount of external transfers is capped per day...

Michel

SMS: not necessarily. For example, security can involve reinserting the card into a device and entering a new random "code". You need to have the card. Daily cap: I don’t know about that... I paid for my "little car" in a single transfer from one country to another (EU).

But since I’m not an expert either, I’m just sharing my experience.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
The card that only activates after an ATM withdrawal or a PIN payment is for new cards—this way, they’re never sent by registered mail. Everyone avoids those pesky registered letters. There’s always a limit on external transfers, often 5,000 € or 10,000 €.

Michel
PO Poticar Regular ·
The card that only activates after an ATM withdrawal or a PIN payment—that’s for new cards, so they’re never sent by registered mail. Everyone avoids those damn registered letters.

The card that... No relation to the topic.

There’s always a limit on external transfers, often 5,000 or 10,000. Michel

??? Possible, but not my experience. Of course the amount will necessarily be capped because you can’t exceed your balance!! Just kidding.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Could you define "dirty" money for me?

Anything that evades the social contract.

Honest or not in whose eyes?

Citizens who take part in the social contract.

I find it particularly pathetic not to contribute to funding social security, the pension system, the education system, or the various safety nets while still wanting to benefit from them.

Even more pathetic when the lure of profit or the thrill of the game (some cheat just for the fun of it...) isn’t acknowledged.

You’ve got to own it instead of playing the shocked virgin act—like, "It’s not just me, the big guys do it, so why shouldn’t I?"

It’s petty.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
enough to make you sick, dissatisfied, and bitter?

Why would I be?😮

Just because some people behave badly doesn’t mean I’ll lose sleep over it. There’s no reason to.

I don’t follow your logic.

And if you want and can afford the Ferrari of your dreams, go for it. We still have the right... It’s just pleasure, and life is short.

Why would I dream of a Ferrari? It’s pointless.

If it makes some people happy to buy one with honestly earned money, I don’t see the issue—but personally, meh.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Should this topic (tax evasion) have a place in a discussion about travel?

There are as many ways to travel as there are travelers...

Tax-driven travel is one of them.😇
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Good evening,

We can dream of things that serve no purpose—seems to be the very principle of existence, if you ask me. So, a Ferrari or something else, why not? Of course...

You’re coming across as bitter in this discussion; it’s dripping from every one of your posts.

Some people behave badly? Well, let me tell you straight: when it comes to bad behavior and disrespecting common rules, if there’s anyone here who has no right to talk—and especially no right to lecture—it’s the French state.

Michel

if not to make yourself sick, unsatisfied, and bitter?

Why would I be?😮

Just because some people behave badly doesn’t mean I’ll lose sleep over it. There’s no reason to.

I don’t get your logic.

And if you want and can afford the Ferrari of your dreams, go for it. We still have the right... It’s just pleasure, and life is short.

Why would I dream of a Ferrari? It’s useless.

If it makes some people happy to buy one with honestly earned money, I don’t see the problem—but personally, meh.
PO Poticar Regular ·
I find it particularly pathetic not to contribute to funding social security, the pension system, the education system, or the various safety nets while still wanting to benefit from them.

................... You’ve got to own it instead of playing the shocked virgin like, "It’s not just me—big players do it, so why shouldn’t I?"

It’s petty.

Intellectually, in this specific and isolated case, I think you’re becoming increasingly disappointing. You’re veering off course in the middle of a turn by digging into your desire for social morality and exemplarity. You’re missing the point. That’s not cool!

And also: no, tax-driven travel isn’t travel in the spirit of this forum. Bitte! Please, Ti prego...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
You're bitter in this discussion; it's obvious in all your comments.

Isn’t there a missing 'e'?

What’s with this new habit of thinking others are bitter just because they think differently?

What’s the argument here?

I don’t see it.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Intellectually, I think you’re becoming—at least in this specific, isolated case—more and more disappointing.

I care as much about what you think of me as I do about a Ferrari...🙂

We don’t argue to please or displease. That’s nonsense.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
And also: no, tax travel isn’t travel in the spirit of this forum.

I don’t know.

There are lots of threads on this forum about ways to bend the law. They haven’t been censored.

(Not just from that perspective, either)
TR Traplina Regular ·
Some people behave badly? Well, let me tell you straight up, when it comes to bad behavior and not respecting common rules, if there's anyone here who has nothing to say—and especially no right to talk—it's the French state.

I tend to agree with what Attila said. Yeah, I know—I spent most of my life in France, and the deductions are huge, we all know that, and sure, it's easy to conclude that the state is messing up. But despite a long-standing effort to unravel things, the social benefits in France are still massive.

I now live in Argentina. Half the economy is underground, no one wants to pay taxes, it's often hard to pay any other way than cash, and yet, there are rarely—*very* rarely—days without protests in the capital demanding EVERYTHING from the state.

To me, this makes absolutely no sense, but hey, I must be old-school.

As for the eternal refrain "they steal so I steal," it’s even more illogical. Here, THEY really do steal—a lot—but in the strictest sense, just to line their own pockets, *really* fill them up. So everyone feels entitled to think, say, and do pretty much whatever they want. The egg, the chicken, the chicken, the egg—I still haven’t decided which came first...
PO Poticar Regular ·
Intellectually, I think you’re becoming—just in this specific and isolated case—more and more disappointing.

I couldn’t care less about what you think of me than I do about a Ferrari...🙂

We don’t argue to please or displease. That’s nonsense.🤪

Dear unyielding activist, your saber strikes are wonderful!

Here, let me try to soothe your fiery mind (right now, anyway). I’ll tell you about a few minutes of my return from Greece... nobody cares, no big deal 😏

off-topic, yes... just like your recent comments in this thread (not like you at all!!!).

-- From my seat, I scan the sea. A gentle sway. At a certain angle, a smudge on the window becomes a ship on the horizon.

My gaze drifts between the TV and the outside. I sweep across the endless, slow undulations of the choppy surface, hoping to spot the sudden appearance of a giant vessel or a pod of dolphins. No luck.

On TV, a young bearded guy in a T-shirt with a playful, youthful design rolls out crepe batter, then takes one of his creations to his mouth. He tilts his head back, eyes on the ceiling, making it abundantly clear: *what a delight, how talented I am!* True, if I could do the same at this moment... (that was my thought).

The lounges and hallways are empty... *packed* empty. Not a single sound of human activity. The hum from the engine room grates on my nerves and slightly drowns out the TV chef’s commentary. I don’t understand a word the artist is saying (it’s Greek), but I get everything he’s doing so wonderfully. This was last Sunday between Patras and Fusina.

I didn’t wonder if he paid his taxes...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
la pâtre à crêpes

I guess that’s intentional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46OKq8Fs-f0
SI Sissi57 Globetrotter ·
This discussion is completely off-topic for travel. Why assume that anyone paying in cash is automatically a fraudster, a thief, or a social parasite?

There have been plenty of cases where people paid for all sorts of things with cards linked to offshore accounts or corporate accounts (misuse of company assets), etc. Paying with a card doesn’t make you virtuous by default... (We had a whole political scandal in Geneva where a city official was paying for restaurants, nightclubs, and private banquets with the credit card meant for official expenses)
Je n'aurai pas le temps...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Why start from the assumption that anyone paying in cash is necessarily a fraudster, a thief, or a social parasite...

That’s your conclusion.

I only said that cash can encourage crime and that some people don’t need much encouragement.

There have been plenty of cases where people paid for all sorts of things with cards linked to offshore accounts or corporate accounts (misuse of company assets), etc. Paying with a card doesn’t automatically make you virtuous... (we had a whole political scandal in Geneva where a city official paid for restaurants, nightclubs, and private banquets with the credit card meant for official expenses)

We’re not lemmings.

Just because one idiot jumps into the sea doesn’t mean we all have to follow.
SI Sissi57 Globetrotter ·
That’s your conclusion.

No, that’s the impression I get from your comments.

And the cards funded by fraudulent accounts—it seems like that made (and maybe still does, I’m not up to date on these things) the heyday of Panama, some Caribbean islands, Singapore, and others.
Je n'aurai pas le temps...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
You're jumping to conclusions too quickly.

Just because one abuse is pointed out doesn’t mean it applies to everyone.

But it’s partly because of this abuse that cash is disappearing.

That doesn’t prevent other issues, but it’s one less problem.
SI Sissi57 Globetrotter ·
We're not lemmings.

Just because some idiot jumps into the sea doesn’t mean we all have to follow suit.

What applies to cards also applies to cash.

You can be dishonest with cash just as easily as with a card.
Je n'aurai pas le temps...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
You can't trace cash.

With a card or a check, you can. (Not always easily, but there's at least a thread to unravel.)

That's why fraudsters ask for cash. It leaves no trail.

Just talking shop.
PO Poticar Regular ·
la pâtre à crêpes

I guess that was intentional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46OKq8Fs-f0

You're always one step ahead—I hate you for that!!!
SI Sissi57 Globetrotter ·
A somewhat lengthy article, and in English, but very informative about Sweden's backpedaling on cash usage after passing a law at the end of 2019 to guarantee the use of cash.... https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/12/bank-and-atm-closures-what-the-uk-can-learn-from-sweden/
Je n'aurai pas le temps...
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
You can't trace cash back..

That’s exactly why they say money has no smell :)
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
But apparently, it has a whiff of cocaine

...😮

Similar discussions

You might also like