Bonjour à tous ceux qui vont débarquer d'ici peu !
L'Argentine est vraiment bien entrée dans l'hiver et toutes les régions sont pratiquement concernées par le froid, le gel, ou par la neige.
A Buenos Aires : On se reveille le matin avec des temperatures tournant autour de +5C, dans la campagne dans la Pampa, c'est plutot autour de 0C.
Pratiquement tous les massifs du sud au nord sont concernés par la neige.
Coté route, la route 7 entre Mendoza et Santiago de Chile est coupée depuis une semaine par la neige, donc sachez que tout passage entre l'Argentine et le Chili n'est pas facile.
Quelques photos pour se faire plaisir datant du vendredi 15 juin 2007 .
Tunuyan dans la province de Mendoza
Rio Ceballos dans la province de Cordoba
Llao Llao pres de Bariloche
Bariloche
Lozano dans la province de Jujuy
La Quebrada de Humahaca
6.000 camions bloqués au pied de la route 7 pour passer vers le Chili.
brrrrrr, bon moi je retourne pres du chauffage, parce que meme dans mon appart de Bsas ca caille !
Ce qui est bizarre, c'est que ce site :http://www.aca.org.ar/servicios/turismo/vial/framevial.htm
indique bien que laroute 7 est coupée à cause de la neige mais la route 60 vers le Paso San Francisco serait ouverte!
Ce site est-il à ta connaissance digne de confiance?
Merci!
Marie
Oui je te recommande ce site de l'ACA qui ne se trompe que tres rarement.
Si ils indiquent que tu peux passer sur la RN60 c'est que c'est possible, cependant n'oublies pas que :
1) De l'autre coté la route chilienne la RN31 est en terre sur 211 km et que l'ACA ne donne pas d'info sur l'etat des routes au Chili.
2) Si tu passes, il faudra que quelques jours ou quelques semaines apres tu repasses les Andes dans l'autre sens, et si durant ce laps de temps il a fortement neigé, tu auras peut etre un gros inconvenient de temps pour revenir sur Bsas.
Bref, c'est risqué ...... comme dit l'autre "c'est vous qui voyez, il y en a qui ont essayé ... "
Woui woui, je sais que côté chilien ce n'est qu'une piste.
On verra bien d'ici là, ça ne peut que s'améliorer d'ailleurs, nan!
Au fait, je n'ai pas été fichue sur le fameux site dont je parle ci-dessus de voir si le Paso de Jama était ouvert: je ne l'ai pas trouvé!
Ai-je mal cherché?
Merci!
Marie
je te lis depuis quelques jours. On arrive mon ami et moi de tahiti (??) le 2 juillet à santiago pour ensuite passer 4 semaines en argentine. Je rêvais e voir les glaciers, ushuia etc.. mais en te lisant je me demande si nous pouvons encore rêver...
toi qui a l'air si bien renseigné peux tu m'éclairer sur ce point essentiel à mes yeux et que je n'arrive pas à trouver sur le net . Peut on approcher des glacier (au moins celui de perito moreno) en cette saison. par bateau ? par la route ? est ce que les excursions se font en cette saison?
C'est tout pour le moment !
tes photos d'aéroport nous ont laissé comment dire ..perplexes
Pour toute location ( voiture ou camping car ) n'oublies pas de demander à l'agence de location une autorisation écrite pour pouvoir passer la frontiere sinon impossible !
Pour le futur de la météo je ne suis pas malheureusement voyant, la seule chose que je sais c'est que nous sommes qu'en automne et que le 21 juin commence reellement l'hiver qui durera 3 mois ! On peut donc toujours avoir pire !
Je te rassure, bien sur que tu peux aussi y aller en hiver, mais il fait froid et il y a peu d'heures de jour.
Hier il y a eu un minima de -10 C à Calafate et un maxima de +5C.
Tu peux t y rendre et les excursions se font suivant la météo de la journée.
Va voir la météo sur
La RN7 proche de la frontiere entre l'Argentine et le Chili ( samedi 16 juin 2007), la route a pu restée ouverte 3 heures avant de nouvelles chutes de neige.
En lisant vos commentaires, cela me fait dire que ce serait bien que je commence à me préoccuper de mon itinéraire de vacances, histoire de ne pas finir en bonhomme de neige en arrivant.
Je débarque fin juillet pour 5 semaines à BA, et n'étant pas venu cherché spécialement la neige, je comptais filer au nord avec le salta notamment en ligne de mire. 5 semaines étant 5 semaines j envisageais une boucle bolivie paraguay, brésil pour le reste. C est facile à dire, mais cela me parait gourmand, je n ai pas regardé de trop près les distances.
Qu'en pensez vous, ou pourriez vous me conseiller des endroits ou un itinéraire côté argentine ? Nous sommes très orientés trek/nature/montagne/désert/forêt/....
arggg...quand je lis toutes ces infos, je me demande finalement ce qu'on va faire 3 semaines dans le NOA à peine élargi (le but n'étant pas de faire des dizaines d'heures de voiture...), avec 3 enfants (qui ne sont plus bébés!!!), étant parti ds l'idée de randonner à droite à gauche... avez vous des suggestions???... on n'a pas de billet d'avion réservé (GP/compagnie aérienne...), mais on comptait arriver en avion jusqu'à Salta... on peut tjrs changer de destination...on était pourtant bien tenté cette année par 3 semaines itinérantes par là bas, à la rencontre des gens, et des paysages!!!...
à suivre!...
sandrine
Normalement ( mais ici en Argentine ce mot est à utiliser avec précaution ), le NOA est sec en hiver .... mais froid suivant les altitudes.
Un conseil, surtout ne reserve rien ! Arrive sur Buenos Aires et en fonction de tout ( ton humeur, les conditions meteo, les greves, etats des routes ..etc.... ) tu te decideras ! En tout cas, on pourras deja se voir sur place, et je te donnerai des infos toutes fraiches ( c'est le cas de le dire !)
On m'a posé la question de savoir si le pasage entre l'Argentine et le Chili par le paso de Jama ( entre Jujuy et Atacama ) etait plus facile que celui de la RN7 au niveau de Mendoza.
J'avais repondu que oui, puisque ( normalement ) à cette epoque de l'année plus on monte vers le nord plus ca doit etre sec. Bien que le paso de Jama soit a 4425 m d'alt en general il est plus facile d'acces en hiver que le paso de la cumbre au niveau de Mendoza qui se toruve a 3834m ..... et bien voila qu'une fois de plus le pays est imprevisible !!!!!!!. En effet, un bus parti de Buenos Aires Retiro et se dirigeant vers Lima, via Jujuy, paso de Jama et Atacama est reste bloqué coté argentin à 60 km de la frontiere ..... par la neige !
Voila la photo :
Ce sont les militaires argentins de Jujuy qui sont allés secourir les 40 passagers du bus.
Donc aux dernieres nouvelles, coté argentin sur la RN52 entre la frontiere argentine et le croisement de la RP70 le passage est tres difficile, et le passage des Andes a ce niveau est soit coupé, soit impossible. Vous pouvez arriver jusqu'a Susques, ensuite ca devient perilleux.
Pour ce qui est de la RN7 entre Santiago de Chile et Mendoza, pendant les 3 dernieres semaines, en moyenne ca passe 3 jours et puis ca rebloque 3 jours... donc armez vous de patience si vous devez passer entre les deux pays.
Sinon il reste l'avion ......
A bientot !
NB : Nous sommes en hiver .......... il faut prendre la neige au serieux meme si nous sommes en Amerique du Sud ! Le passage des Andes ou l'exploration de la Patagonie à cette époque tient de l'aventure et toute programmation en durée y est impossible ! Visitez l'Argentine en ce moment, laissez la Patagonie pour le printemps !
merci hergé des infos que tu nous donnes en direct c'est très précieux, je voulais passer par là avant de rejoindre la paz, je vais peut être faire plutôt un petit tour vers iguazu
belle journée à toi
arvie 😄😄😄
Hi everyone! So happy to be back on this forum—it’s packed with such useful info! 🙂 My husband and I are planning a 2.5-week self-drive trip to Colombia at the end of the year, including some domestic flights. My first question is: is it possible, easy, and safe to do a road trip in Colombia?
Below is our draft itinerary (with questions at each stop):
29/11: France → Colombia. Overnight in Bogotá.
30/11: Exploring Bogotá: La Candelaria and Montserrate.
01/12: Gold Museum (closed on Mondays). Drive to Zipaquirá (1.5 hrs) to visit the Salt Cathedral. Then drive to Villa de Leyva (3 hrs). Explore the town. Overnight in Villa de Leyva.
02/12: Return to Bogotá via Laguna de Guatavita (5 hrs). Is it worth the detour? Overnight in Bogotá.
03/12: Flight to Pereira. Drive to Salento. Overnight in Salento.
04/12: Cocora Valley (hike among the wax palms) followed by a drive around the area. Are there any waterfalls or other sights nearby?
05/12: Visit a coffee finca—any recommendations? Then explore the surroundings: Filandia, Manizales, waterfalls? Hot springs? Which ones?
06/12: Flight to Medellín.
07/12: Exploring Medellín: Centro, Plaza Botero, Comuna 13. How do you visit Comuna 13? Is it easy to get around Medellín? Metro? Buses?
08/12: Drive to Guatapé (2 hrs). Visit the town, stroll around the lake, then El Peñol. Overnight in Guatapé.
09/12: Return to Medellín.
10/12: Flight to Santa Marta. Drive to a hotel near Tayrona Park.
11/12: Tayrona—El Zaino entrance.
12/12: Tayrona—Palangana entrance, then Bahia Concha and Santa Marta. What do you think?
13/12: Drive to Minca (45 mins). Can we reach the village by car? Pozo Azul and Marinka waterfalls. Overnight in Minca (or back in Tayrona?).
14/12: Drive to Puerto Nao (5 hrs). Stop in Ciénaga on the way + boat tour in Nueva Venecia and/or Buena Vista? Not enough time? Overnight in Puerto Nao.
15/12: Exploring Cartagena: Centro, Getsemaní, the walls + La Boquilla if we have time.
16/12: La Boquilla (is it really worth it?) if we didn’t have time yesterday, then back to the beach.
17/12: Return to France.
So, what do you think? Is this doable, or should we tweak it? Thanks in advance for your invaluable feedback and tips! 🙂
Hi there, we’ve decided to head to Brazil at the end of March for 2.5 weeks with our 13-year-old son. From what I’ve gathered from some research, Rio seems like a great destination at this time of year, and I’m thinking around 4-5 days to explore it—does that sound right to you? Copacabana, Ipanema, Sugarloaf Mountain, Christ the Redeemer, maybe a favela tour, or any other ideas?
How’s the best way to get around locally? I’ve heard about Bonito or Angra dos Reis and Ilha Grande—what do you think of those? Fernando de Noronha for snorkeling or even diving? Is Recife a good option at this time of year?
If you’ve got any suggestions, we’re all ears—it’s for our 50th birthdays! :-) Thanks so much for your help and tips. See you soon.
Hi there, I’m looking for recent info on a boat trip with sleeping accommodations from Belém to Santarém. I don’t want a "luxury cruise for wealthy tourists"—just a bed with a minimum of comfort seems great to me🙂. I didn’t find any up-to-date details with Amazon Star. Do you have any companies, guides, or prices for this route to recommend?
I’d love to hear tips and feedback on this trip, especially since I’m traveling solo. I’d like to get a sense of what to expect and ensure some basic safety with transportation.
Thanks.
Hi everyone,
We’re planning 40 days in Uruguay and Argentina in February and March, trying to avoid as much rain as possible.
We’re thinking of starting in Buenos Aires, then heading to Bariloche, and from there flying to Córdoba, Mendoza, or Salta. Maybe by bus or renting a car to explore each region.
Do you have any suggestions or tips for us? We love picturesque, historic cities and landscapes. As seasoned travelers, we’re used to planning our trips ourselves.
Thanks in advance!
We’ve planned our road trip in Chile, and the only thing left is to book the TABSA ferry from Punta Arenas to Puerto Williams.
Problem: the ferry that leaves Punta Arenas at 1 AM isn’t available for booking, no matter the day or month. All the other departures can be booked, though.
On top of that, Tabsa isn’t responding to any messages.
We’re planning to explore Peru’s main highlights and were wondering if anyone could share insights on the quality and comfort of overnight buses. If so, which bus company should we trust?
Hi,
My wife and I are heading to Brazil from November 6th to December 2nd. We’ll be stopping in São Paulo, Paraty, Ilha Grande, Rio, and Salvador de Bahia.
Could you recommend some nice, non-luxury places to stay in each of these spots?
Also, any suggestions for places to visit would be great.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Marc
Hi there.
I already posted a message asking for advice about our upcoming trip to Chile.
Details: Getting around by bus or train.
Starting from Valparaiso, heading north, passing through cities and places to visit, then returning to Santiago via a different route.
Avoid the beaches...
Thanks
Hello,
my wife and I will be in Cusco for a week in March 2027.
I’d like to organize the visit to the site on our own, combining the Sacred Valley and Machu Picchu.
We’d leave Cusco on Day 1 to arrive at the site in the morning, then stay in Aguas Calientes or Ollantaytambo, and on Day 2 return to Cusco while visiting the Sacred Valley.
Is this doable?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Cédric.
Hello,
We’re spending 3 weeks in Rio between February 20 and March 15, 2027, to visit our son and daughter-in-law. We’re thinking of one or two "escapes" from Rio—3-day trips to get away from the city (so not too far, max 3–4 hours by car or bus). We’re all ears for suggestions! We love beautiful nature and authentic experiences, not so much the touristy spots... even though those spots are often in beautiful places, we’d rather avoid them.
Thanks for your insights!
Catherine
Hi there,
I’m planning a trip with my partner (no kids this time—thanks, Grandma!) for two weeks to celebrate her 40th birthday. I’ve been thinking about Chile. We’re looking at leaving around September 18, 2027, starting in the south and returning in early April.
Here’s what I had in mind:
8 nights in a van in the Lake District and the start of the Carretera Austral (up to the Chaitén area). We’re set to arrive in Puerto Montt around 2:00 PM. We don’t want to go too far south since we’re planning to explore the heart of Patagonia (Chile and Argentina) with the kids when they’re older. The idea is to spend 3 nights discovering the lakes (up to Cochamó) and 3 nights in Pumalín Park. I’ve also added two transition nights.
7 nights in the Atacama to experience another side of Chile (San Pedro), taking a domestic flight from Puerto Montt to Calama in the early afternoon. We’ll depart for France in the early evening from Santiago.
IMPORTANT NOTICE for those planning to take a bus to another city, state, or destination from Salvador!
Starting January 20, 2026, the intercity bus station Rodoviária is changing its address!
The Rodoviária is leaving the Iguatemi area and will now be located in ÁGUAS CLARAS (about twenty kilometers from downtown Salvador).
A brand-new station (the most modern in Brazil) has just been set up there, accessible by car/taxi/Uber/metro.
Allow for much more transfer time (especially during rush hours), so leave early if you're heading to Chapada Diamantina or other Brazilian cities by bus.
Remember, there are also private transfers (even French-speaking ones) that can take you directly from your hotel in Salvador to your hotel in Chapada. Sure, it’ll be more expensive, but you’ll save on transfer time and comfort.
Tropical greetings from Salvador,
@ivanbahiaguide
Loyal member of the French-Speaking Brazil Forums for over 15 years already 😊 🇧🇷
Hello,
We’re thinking of spending 1 month in Chile, maybe doing a loop?
From 12/23 to 01/22.
What are the must-see sights, given we’re more interested in the country’s cultural side than the beaches?
Thanks
Hi everyone,
We're planning a trip to southern Chile in November. Here's our tentative itinerary:
Day 1: Arrival in Santiago, then a flight the next day to Balmaceda where we'll pick up a rental car to reach Coyhaique.
Day 3: Walk in the Coyhaique National Reserve, then continue to Puerto Chacabuco. Return to Coyhaique for the second night.
Day 4: Drive to Villa Cerro Castillo for a hike in the national park. Continue to Puerto Tranquilo and stay there for 3 nights.
Day 5: Boat tour on Laguna San Rafael.
Day 6: Day trip to Monte San Valentin Glacier.
Day 7: Excursion to the Marble Chapels, then drive to Puerto Guadal. We'll stay there for 3 nights.
Day 8: Walk along Lago Carrera and return to Puerto Guadal.
Day 9: Rio Baker Valley and, if possible, a glacier excursion.
Day 10: Drive to Cochrane and hike in Tamango National Reserve. We'll stay 2 nights in Cochrane.
Day 11: Walk in the Chacabuco Valley.
Day 12: Drive to Caleta Tortel. We'll stay there for 2 nights.
Day 13: Cruise in the Rio Baker delta.
Day 14: Return to Cochrane.
Day 15: Return to Balmaceda in two stages.
Day 16: Continue the return journey.
Day 17: Return the rental car and head back to Santiago.
After this, we're also planning to explore northern Santiago. I'll post about that part once I have a clearer idea of the route.
What do you think of this itinerary? Is it doable in 17 days?
Thanks in advance for your tips and recommendations.
martine
Hi there, I’ll be in Brazil from December 10th to the end of February.
I’ve sketched out a rough itinerary but I’m not sure how to arrange it—considering the climate, year-end holidays, and Carnival.
Basically, I’m thinking of the Amazon, the Northeast coast with Lençóis Maranhenses National Park (but skipping Chapada Diamantina),
Ouro Preto, Paraty, and Ilha Grande—but no Rio visit.
Is this doable in 3 months?
Which direction should I take for this itinerary?
Thanks in advance!
Hi everyone, does anyone know the agency Ventura Travel Agency (not ventura travel)? After lots of research and quotes, it’s the only one offering Uyuni at a reasonable price while meeting all the criteria: transfer to the border, private-room accommodation, and a very fair rate. Other agencies or guides either offer shared rooms, no border transfer, or prices that are way too high. But I’d love to hear some reviews about this agency. Thanks in advance!
Hi everyone,
We're planning a trip to Chile to visit the Atacama Desert and then head toward Putre, Lauca, Salar de Surire, etc.
Which would be the better time to go, April or November?
Is an SUV enough?
Looking forward to your tips!
Hi everyone, French travelers in Chile—what credit cards do you use for your various car rentals in the country? I’m traveling in September and was planning to switch my regular debit card (a VISA PREMIER in deferred debit mode) for the deposit guarantee.
My rentals are with Figal in Punta Arenas, Econautos in Arica, and Chilean Rent a Car in Temuco, and all of them want the deposit on a credit card. For me, deferred debit *should* work, but I’ve read comments saying the opposite.
How’s it actually working on the ground with these rental companies right now? Will a deferred debit card work, or not at all?
In France, banks don’t issue credit cards, right—or am I mistaken?
Hi everyone, is it still possible to travel in Ecuador outside the Amazon region? If so, do you have a reliable agency to recommend? All your recent experiences from the past few months would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much
Hi,
We’re heading to Buenos Aires for 3 days in November and would like to do a guided tour of a few neighborhoods. There are "free" tours, but none in French. Does anyone have a guide to recommend so we can really get to know the city beyond just the architecture?
Thanks
Hi there,
I’m desperately looking for info on the schedules and routes of (shared) boats to visit the islands of Lake Titicaca.
From what I’ve found, there’s a *combi* (bus) that leaves from Puno to go to Llachon. Where do you catch it? What are the schedules and frequency? Does it take about 1 hour?
Then in Llachon, you can take a boat to Amantani (45 min). Same question—where do you check for frequency and schedule?
After that, from Amantani, boats go to Taquile and then Uros. Do you have enough time to visit the islands between two boats? Frequency and schedule?
The goal is to do this tour independently (no agency) over 2 days. Thanks for any tips you might have!
I just got back from a trip to Bolivia and wow—what a wake-up call. It’s not the easiest country, but it’s absolutely stunning.
I started with Isla del Sol, perfect for easing into the altitude at a relaxed pace. Try to stay in the northern part of the island—it’s quieter and the views are insane. And the trout there? Unreal. Quick tip: bring cash in small bills; they almost never have change, and cards are rarely accepted.
Next up, La Paz. The city’s pretty wild, built in every direction. I did a few hikes in the area, including the famous Charquini Lagoon (the blue lake) at over 5,000 m—let’s just say I struggled 😅 but it was so beautiful it was totally worth it.
After that, I headed to Sajama. It’s cool, especially for the hot springs, and I stayed in Tomarapi. But honestly, if you’re short on time, you can skip it without too many regrets.
The highlight of the trip: the Salar. I did it starting from Tupiza, and I *highly* recommend going Tupiza → Uyuni. Way less crowded at the start and the landscapes are super varied. For the tour, I used SplitYourGuide to find a group, and it worked out great. Super handy for splitting costs and meeting people.
I wrapped up in Sucre—this city is gorgeous, all white, with such a chill vibe. And the salteñas + ice cream? Next level 😋
Bottom line: Bolivia’s a bit rough around the edges, sometimes exhausting (shoutout to the altitude), but it’s 1000% worth it.
If you’ve got questions or need tips, I’m happy to help!
Martin
I was planning to go to Réunion and stay in half-board accommodation with non-professionals, but it seems that’s not really the custom there—or maybe my budget isn’t big enough.
So, since I’ve already traveled around Ecuador and Peru, I’m now looking at Argentina, especially for its mountains (like the ones in Réunion that tempted me, even though—frustratingly—I could only admire them from below).
I plan to get around by bus and don’t know in advance where I’ll sleep, so I won’t book ahead. If I like a place, I might stay for several days.
I know that in Chile, it’s easy to find half-board accommodation, but what about in Argentina?
I’d like to stay with locals in half-board without it being a professional setup. I’m not sure if this is common practice there. It’s up to me to find someone willing to host me.
What do you think?
What would be a fair price (keeping in mind that 40 to 50 € is the max I can spend on accommodation, breakfast, and dinner)?
Hi everyone,
We’re heading to Patagonia for three weeks in November, starting from Coyhaique in Chile.
We won’t have a car, and I’m struggling to find information about transportation options for a few parts of the itinerary we’d like to do:
1) From Perito Moreno (the town, near Los Antiguos), we’d like to travel down Ruta 40 to visit Perito Moreno National Park and then cross into Chile via the Paso Roballos (at the latitude of Bajo Caracoles) to reach the road to Cochrane. Without a car, it seems we’ll need to use private agencies to get to the national park—do you have any recommendations or suggestions? Also, does anyone know if it’s possible to cross into Chile via Paso Roballos (from Bajo Caracoles) without a rental car? That is, without having to go all the way down to El Chaltén or back up toward Perito Moreno/Los Antiguos, etc.?
2) The second stretch that seems a bit tricky (though still easier, in theory) is from Caleta Tortel to Villa O’Higgins on the Chilean side. Do we have to go back through Cochrane, or are there ways to get directly from Tortel to Villa O’Higgins?
3) Finally, we’d like to hike into Argentina (El Chaltén) from O’Higgins. Any recommendations for this? Do we need to go through an agency? What’s the estimated duration of the trek?
As you’ve probably gathered, we want to visit some off-the-beaten-path spots but don’t have a car, so we’re looking for the best possible compromises.
Thanks so much in advance for all your suggestions!
Thomas
Hi,
we’re planning a round trip from San Pedro de Atacama, Chile, to Salta, Argentina, in two months. On the way there, we’ll take the northern route via Susques, Route 27, then 52. But for the return, we were thinking of taking the southern route via San Antonio de los Cobres, Route 51, then 23. Is it similar to the northern route in terms of road surface? How busy is it, and are there gas stations? Basically, should we be worried about doing it in an SUV that’s supposedly 4x4 but has regular road tires and no second spare wheel, obviously...
I’ve seen that we can stop over in San Antonio de los Cobres.
Thanks for your feedback.
Raf.
Hi,
we’ll be in Calama at the end of March 2026, and I’m looking for a reliable car rental there for a 7-day road trip to Salta, Argentina. But I’m struggling with the car rental agencies in Calama because the reviews can be scary. I saw Gyg, which has great ratings, but I’m a bit wary (5/5 from 59 reviews—either the guy’s amazing or it’s fake...), but I can’t find any recent reviews on VF in general.
For Punta Arenas, I booked with Dachelet and didn’t have any issues with email exchanges.
Thanks in advance.
Raf.
I’m planning the trip of my dreams for next November—Chile!
I’d love to get your thoughts on my potential itinerary. I know it’s a big investment in terms of both time and money, so every bit of feedback, suggestion, or info helps immensely. Thank you in advance!!
1-Flight to Santiago
2-Explore Santiago
3-Explore Santiago
4-Bus from STG to Valpo (2h) + visit Valparaíso + night in Viña
5-Visit Valparaíso + bus back to STG (2h)
6-Flight to Calama + bus to San Pedro + explore and acclimate in San Pedro + car rental in the afternoon (+Chaxa?)
7-(Very early) Valle del Arcoíris + Laguna Cejar + Valle de la Luna