Hi everyone,
I’m a die-hard fan of India, but it’s time I discovered Thailand too to broaden my Asian horizons.
I’m heading there on January 19, 2025, for a 46-day trip (no visa needed as I’m French). I’ve pored over a few guidebooks and travel blogs. Based on what caught my interest, I’ve put together a rough itinerary and list of sights. But since I know absolutely nothing about Thailand, I’m kind of flying blind here.
Since I’m not exactly a spring chicken anymore, I’ve opted for a few bases where I’ll stay several days in the same place. That way, I won’t have to change locations and hotels every day or so, packing and unpacking my suitcase constantly. Instead, I plan to explore the surrounding area each day, within a maximum radius of 50 to 70 km.
So, first question: Is that kind of round-trip distance manageable in a day in Thailand?
In India, renting a car for a day—with a driver—currently costs around 35 to 40 € per day. Knowing that 1,300 to 1,500 THB would be my absolute max, and even then, only if I don’t rent a car every single day.
Which brings me to my second question: Am I being unrealistic?
Otherwise—third question—once I’m settled in the city I’ve chosen as my base, can I get around within that 50–70 km radius using public transport?
I’ve already booked all my hotels—with free cancellation—on booking.com at an average price of 950/1,000 THB per night. Does that put me in a good range for value for money? Or am I dreaming?
Here’s my plan:
BANGKOK (13 days, 14 nights): 1 week for exploring Bangkok – Kanchanaburi/Erawan National Park? – Ayutthaya/Lopburi? – Muang Boran – Samut – Songkram/Amphawa
Bangkok -> Chiang Mai by overnight train in first-class sleeper
CHIANG MAI (6 days/6 nights): Mae Hong Son – Hot springs – Chiang Dao – caves – Lamphun – other places to be decided on the spot based on what’s worth seeing and transport options
Chiang Mai -> Chiang Rai
CHIANG RAI (7 days/8 nights): Fang – Tha Ton – Chiang Saen – Doi Tung – Chiang Khong – Doi Ang Khang, Phu Chi Fah, etc.
Chiang Rai -> Phrae
PHRAE (4 days/5 nights): Lampang and surrounding areas, depending on what’s interesting to see
Phrae -> Loei
LOEI (4 days/5 nights): Phu Kradung – Chiang Khan and surrounding areas, depending on what’s worth seeing
Loei -> Buriram
PHIMAI (Nakhon Ratchasima/Khorat) (5 days/6 nights): Phimai – Prasat Muang Tam – Phanom Rung – Prasat Phanom Wan
Phimai -> Khorat (airport or train station) -> Bangkok (overnight in Bangkok)
Day 46: BANGKOK -> KOCHI
Thanks in advance for your thoughts and advice!
Hello,
After a lot of searching, exchanging ideas, and thinking it over, I’ve decided to go back to my original plan of spending two weeks in Bangkok. From January 19th to February 2nd. I’ll also take a quick trip for one night/two days to Ayutthaya (and return to Bangkok, where I’ll have kept the apartment I booked), and possibly the same for Kanchanaburi, depending on how I feel once I’m there—whether I find something more interesting in Bangkok or nearby.
The key word is: taking my time to take photos, observe, taste, savor (in every sense of the word), and most importantly, not rushing.
Beyond the must-see tourist spots, I’d love to wander around the city and maybe within a 40 to 50 km radius for a day trip to discover unusual and lesser-known streets, houses, temples, markets, gardens, and more.
I’ll also be spending two weeks in Chiang Mai and two weeks in Nan.
I’m open to any suggestions. Thank you so much!
Hi there,
The round trip to Bangkok is almost booked.
Here’s the itinerary I’ve planned for this new trip to Thailand:
Arrival – 2 nights in Bangkok (any hotel recommendations? Very quiet, near Chinatown or by the river)
Train or taxi (which app should I use for Thailand?) to Phetchaburi – 2 nights (any hotel recommendations?)
Daytime train to Surat Thani – 1 night there (any hotel recommendations?)
Pick up the rental car and head to Khao Sok – 1 night there (any hotel recommendations?)
Drive to Ko Kho Khao – 3 nights – relaxation (any hotel recommendations?)
Drive to Phang Nga Bay – 1 night (any base recommendations?)
Excursion in the bay, then drive to Krabi – 2 nights (any hotel recommendations) or any other spot with beautiful, quiet beaches that you might know?
Return to Surat Thani – overnight train to Bangkok, then Ayutthaya (any hotel recommendations?)
Visit the site and transfer to the airport – sniff, time to head back!
If you have other suggestions, keeping in mind the trip’s vibe: beach time without crowds or entertainment, a bit of nature, a bit of culture, no stress... No domestic flights and charming accommodations (not at 150 € per night, even though the budget is reasonable!)
Not sure I’ll follow them all, but all your ideas are welcome! 😉
Thanks. 🙂

The round trip to Bangkok is almost booked.
Here’s the itinerary I’ve planned for this new trip to Thailand:
Arrival – 2 nights in Bangkok (any hotel recommendations? Very quiet, near Chinatown or by the river)
Train or taxi (which app should I use for Thailand?) to Phetchaburi – 2 nights (any hotel recommendations?)
Daytime train to Surat Thani – 1 night there (any hotel recommendations?)
Pick up the rental car and head to Khao Sok – 1 night there (any hotel recommendations?)
Drive to Ko Kho Khao – 3 nights – relaxation (any hotel recommendations?)
Drive to Phang Nga Bay – 1 night (any base recommendations?)
Excursion in the bay, then drive to Krabi – 2 nights (any hotel recommendations) or any other spot with beautiful, quiet beaches that you might know?
Return to Surat Thani – overnight train to Bangkok, then Ayutthaya (any hotel recommendations?)
Visit the site and transfer to the airport – sniff, time to head back!
If you have other suggestions, keeping in mind the trip’s vibe: beach time without crowds or entertainment, a bit of nature, a bit of culture, no stress... No domestic flights and charming accommodations (not at 150 € per night, even though the budget is reasonable!)
Not sure I’ll follow them all, but all your ideas are welcome! 😉
Thanks. 🙂

Hi everyone!
I’m heading back to Thailand in July 2026 with a stopover in Cambodia to visit the Angkor site.
After Angkor, I’ve booked a stay on Ko Chang island. Does anyone know if there are direct transport options from Cambodia to Ko Chang without having to go back through Bangkok? That would be amazing!!
I think there are, but I’d need more details!!
I went to Thailand in February 2025 and don’t remember having to apply for a visa—is that still the case now? And for Cambodia too?
Thanks so much!!!
Laurence from Bayonne
Hi there,
Big travel year in Asia for me. I’m heading to Southeast Asia for a month in mid-July. The dates aren’t flexible since I’m going primarily for a wedding (Laos). So, I’ll start my trip in Laos for 4 days, then head off... where?
I’ve already done a trip exclusively in Laos a few years ago. I also visited Vietnam for the second time last year, so I’d love to explore something new. I was thinking of Cambodia (but only for Angkor) and northern Thailand, which I haven’t seen yet (Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Mae Hong Son, Nan, Phrae, Phayao, Pa Hin Ngam National Park), and wrapping up with a few nights in Koh Samui. My question is about the weather. From what I’ve seen, Koh Samui seems to be spared during this period. But for Angkor and northern Thailand, I’m not so sure—it feels like a gamble. And I’m really not in the mood for rainy vacations, since I already get enough gray skies where I live 😅.
So, I had another idea: after Laos, I could head to Bali (or another Indonesian island) where it’s supposedly the right season. The flight ticket price is exactly the same, including a one-way to Bali and the return from Bali (with a layover in Bangkok). For those who’ve traveled in July, what do you think? Is there a big risk in trying northern Thailand and Angkor?
Thanks in advance!
I’ve already done a trip exclusively in Laos a few years ago. I also visited Vietnam for the second time last year, so I’d love to explore something new. I was thinking of Cambodia (but only for Angkor) and northern Thailand, which I haven’t seen yet (Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Mae Hong Son, Nan, Phrae, Phayao, Pa Hin Ngam National Park), and wrapping up with a few nights in Koh Samui. My question is about the weather. From what I’ve seen, Koh Samui seems to be spared during this period. But for Angkor and northern Thailand, I’m not so sure—it feels like a gamble. And I’m really not in the mood for rainy vacations, since I already get enough gray skies where I live 😅.
So, I had another idea: after Laos, I could head to Bali (or another Indonesian island) where it’s supposedly the right season. The flight ticket price is exactly the same, including a one-way to Bali and the return from Bali (with a layover in Bangkok). For those who’ve traveled in July, what do you think? Is there a big risk in trying northern Thailand and Angkor?
Thanks in advance!
Hi there,
We're heading back for another trip to Asia. We've already been to Singapore in... 2008. Let's just say things have changed since then. We'll be arriving in February, either from Bangkok or Siem Reap in Cambodia. We have great memories of it. What are the must-sees these days? I can't wait to see what I think was a hotel under construction back in 2008 (it looks like a boat perched up high—I can't send a photo with 2000 pixels).
Thanks in advance!
TIALOU
Good evening,
Our family trip (2 kids, boys aged 6 and 9) is coming up fast, and I have a few questions. I’ve seen that quite a few people on this forum are active about Thailand, so I hope you can help me out :-)
- I have a Free mobile plan with a good amount of data abroad (35GB). Do you know if the Bolt or Grab apps work well with a French SIM? I’ve read that the app might not work if the SIM isn’t Thai, but I’ve also seen French travelers using their SIMs in Thailand, so I’m not sure what to think.
- What tips do you have to avoid traveler’s diarrhea (especially for our 6- and 9-year-olds)? I’m already preparing them to wash their hands often and not put their hands in their mouths or brush their teeth with tap water (they’re still little and might not control the water well in their mouths). Are there certain dishes or food stands to avoid? Are ice cubes really off-limits too?
- We arrive in Bangkok at 9 AM, and we have a French-speaking guided tour scheduled for the next morning (all day). The itinerary isn’t finalized yet with the guide—I need to get back in touch soon. What do you recommend doing on that first day, which might be tiring after the long flight and jet lag? Our hotel has a nice pool, but I’d love for us to get out and explore a bit :-)
- Is the Grand Palace really best visited early in the morning to avoid crowds?
- I’d love to visit a night or floating market, but they’re all on weekends. Unfortunately, we’re in Bangkok from Wednesday to Saturday morning (then we take the train to Ayutthaya in the morning). Is there a market on Friday night? I saw Chatuchak, but Friday night doesn’t seem like the best time—is it still worth going?
I’ve looked for answers to these questions, but I’m either not finding a definitive answer or I’m overwhelmed by all the things to do/see in Bangkok. So, I’m hoping your advice or experiences can help me out!
Thanks in advance, and have a great evening! :-)
Our family trip (2 kids, boys aged 6 and 9) is coming up fast, and I have a few questions. I’ve seen that quite a few people on this forum are active about Thailand, so I hope you can help me out :-)
- I have a Free mobile plan with a good amount of data abroad (35GB). Do you know if the Bolt or Grab apps work well with a French SIM? I’ve read that the app might not work if the SIM isn’t Thai, but I’ve also seen French travelers using their SIMs in Thailand, so I’m not sure what to think.
- What tips do you have to avoid traveler’s diarrhea (especially for our 6- and 9-year-olds)? I’m already preparing them to wash their hands often and not put their hands in their mouths or brush their teeth with tap water (they’re still little and might not control the water well in their mouths). Are there certain dishes or food stands to avoid? Are ice cubes really off-limits too?
- We arrive in Bangkok at 9 AM, and we have a French-speaking guided tour scheduled for the next morning (all day). The itinerary isn’t finalized yet with the guide—I need to get back in touch soon. What do you recommend doing on that first day, which might be tiring after the long flight and jet lag? Our hotel has a nice pool, but I’d love for us to get out and explore a bit :-)
- Is the Grand Palace really best visited early in the morning to avoid crowds?
- I’d love to visit a night or floating market, but they’re all on weekends. Unfortunately, we’re in Bangkok from Wednesday to Saturday morning (then we take the train to Ayutthaya in the morning). Is there a market on Friday night? I saw Chatuchak, but Friday night doesn’t seem like the best time—is it still worth going?
I’ve looked for answers to these questions, but I’m either not finding a definitive answer or I’m overwhelmed by all the things to do/see in Bangkok. So, I’m hoping your advice or experiences can help me out!
Thanks in advance, and have a great evening! :-)
Hello,
Our flights are booked, and we’ll arrive in Thailand at the beginning of January.
Originally, we were supposed to spend 14 days there. But after booking the flights and seeing the prices, we’ll now be there for 20 days instead.
Our initial plan was: 2 days in Bangkok 1 day in Ayutthaya 4 days in Chiang Mai 6 days around Krabi
So we have 7 more days to fill. What do you recommend?
An extra day in Bangkok? Adding more days in the north? If so, where? Exploring another region, like Kanchanaburi or Cheow Lan Lake? Traveling north in stages instead of taking the overnight train?
A few extra details about us: For us, vacation isn’t about relaxation—we love walking, exploring, and packed days don’t bother us. Hiking for hours and doing active things is what makes us happy. That said, we also enjoy visiting villages and towns if they’re worth the detour. In Thailand, we’d like to visit temples too. We’re early risers, so our days tend to be long. 🙂 In short, we like to keep things moving during our trips. 😉
Unfortunately, seeing terraced rice fields isn’t possible in January. I read there are rice fields around Sukhothai. Are they green in January?
In the north, do you recommend Doi Inthanon, Huai Nam Dang, or Doi Chiang Dao National Parks? Which one is the most beautiful and best for January?
Our flights are booked, and we’ll arrive in Thailand at the beginning of January.
Originally, we were supposed to spend 14 days there. But after booking the flights and seeing the prices, we’ll now be there for 20 days instead.
Our initial plan was: 2 days in Bangkok 1 day in Ayutthaya 4 days in Chiang Mai 6 days around Krabi
So we have 7 more days to fill. What do you recommend?
An extra day in Bangkok? Adding more days in the north? If so, where? Exploring another region, like Kanchanaburi or Cheow Lan Lake? Traveling north in stages instead of taking the overnight train?
A few extra details about us: For us, vacation isn’t about relaxation—we love walking, exploring, and packed days don’t bother us. Hiking for hours and doing active things is what makes us happy. That said, we also enjoy visiting villages and towns if they’re worth the detour. In Thailand, we’d like to visit temples too. We’re early risers, so our days tend to be long. 🙂 In short, we like to keep things moving during our trips. 😉
Unfortunately, seeing terraced rice fields isn’t possible in January. I read there are rice fields around Sukhothai. Are they green in January?
In the north, do you recommend Doi Inthanon, Huai Nam Dang, or Doi Chiang Dao National Parks? Which one is the most beautiful and best for January?
Hey everyone!
I’ve got a question about buses, which we love using in Bangkok, but it’s always a bit of a challenge to figure out how to get around. We always (eventually) reach our destination because there’s always someone willing to help us find our way, but this year, I’d like us to be a bit more independent. We’re a bit old-school—we like traveling without phones for a real digital detox (no judgment, everyone travels how they like! :) ), so ideally, we’d find an up-to-date map of Bangkok’s bus network, but we don’t know where to buy one... We managed to get one back in 2015, but I think it’s outdated now, and during our last trips, we couldn’t find any...
And if traveling like this is really outdated, could you recommend a reliable app for buses? That way, we could plan our routes using the hotel’s Wi-Fi before heading out.
Thanks in advance for your help, and have a great day!
I’ve got a question about buses, which we love using in Bangkok, but it’s always a bit of a challenge to figure out how to get around. We always (eventually) reach our destination because there’s always someone willing to help us find our way, but this year, I’d like us to be a bit more independent. We’re a bit old-school—we like traveling without phones for a real digital detox (no judgment, everyone travels how they like! :) ), so ideally, we’d find an up-to-date map of Bangkok’s bus network, but we don’t know where to buy one... We managed to get one back in 2015, but I think it’s outdated now, and during our last trips, we couldn’t find any...
And if traveling like this is really outdated, could you recommend a reliable app for buses? That way, we could plan our routes using the hotel’s Wi-Fi before heading out.
Thanks in advance for your help, and have a great day!
Hello everyone!
In early July, we’re heading to Indonesia for a solid three weeks as a family (my partner and I are in our fifties, and we have two daughters aged 17 and 20). We’ll be arriving and departing from Denpasar. Our itinerary is still entirely up in the air, and we’d like to explore islands other than Bali (we’ve already been there a few years ago).
I’d love to gather your tips and great recommendations to help us plan our route. For now, we’re thinking of visiting Lombok, Flores, and the Komodo archipelago. Here are some of our questions: - I visited Lombok myself back in 1999. I loved it, but I’ve been reading very mixed reviews in recent travel journals. Some are as enthusiastic as I was back then, while others are much more lukewarm (due to the overly strict and visible influence of the island’s governor on the population and because of massive hotel projects—I’m not sure if they’re on hold, underway, or completed). What’s the current situation? Is Lombok still a must-visit? And do you have any tips (hotels, places to visit, health, etc.)? - Still on Lombok, I did the Rinjani trek back then. I remember the hike wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t as tough as what I’ve read in quite a few recent travel journals... My partner and I are in decent shape, but that’s about it, and especially, my partner and our two daughters really don’t like the cold. What’s your experience with this trek? And do you have a trekking agency to recommend? (If we do it, I think we’d want to make sure we have good support, including quality gear, tents, jackets, etc.) - Flores and Komodo would be a completely new experience for all of us. Any tips and recommendations are welcome (sightseeing, accommodations, transport, etc.)! In particular, we’d like to explore the Komodo archipelago with a trusted agency that will take the time to show us the archipelago’s treasures in good conditions (safety and "decent" comfort). Do you know of any such agencies? - Are there other nearby islands you’d recommend? Any advice on places to visit and where to stay?
We’ll have three weeks on the ground... and we like to mix sightseeing with downtime where we just enjoy the moment. So we’re not looking for an overly packed itinerary, but still something rich (no point traveling so far just to lie on a sunbed all day ;-))
Thanks so much in advance for your advice!
Albin
In early July, we’re heading to Indonesia for a solid three weeks as a family (my partner and I are in our fifties, and we have two daughters aged 17 and 20). We’ll be arriving and departing from Denpasar. Our itinerary is still entirely up in the air, and we’d like to explore islands other than Bali (we’ve already been there a few years ago).
I’d love to gather your tips and great recommendations to help us plan our route. For now, we’re thinking of visiting Lombok, Flores, and the Komodo archipelago. Here are some of our questions: - I visited Lombok myself back in 1999. I loved it, but I’ve been reading very mixed reviews in recent travel journals. Some are as enthusiastic as I was back then, while others are much more lukewarm (due to the overly strict and visible influence of the island’s governor on the population and because of massive hotel projects—I’m not sure if they’re on hold, underway, or completed). What’s the current situation? Is Lombok still a must-visit? And do you have any tips (hotels, places to visit, health, etc.)? - Still on Lombok, I did the Rinjani trek back then. I remember the hike wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t as tough as what I’ve read in quite a few recent travel journals... My partner and I are in decent shape, but that’s about it, and especially, my partner and our two daughters really don’t like the cold. What’s your experience with this trek? And do you have a trekking agency to recommend? (If we do it, I think we’d want to make sure we have good support, including quality gear, tents, jackets, etc.) - Flores and Komodo would be a completely new experience for all of us. Any tips and recommendations are welcome (sightseeing, accommodations, transport, etc.)! In particular, we’d like to explore the Komodo archipelago with a trusted agency that will take the time to show us the archipelago’s treasures in good conditions (safety and "decent" comfort). Do you know of any such agencies? - Are there other nearby islands you’d recommend? Any advice on places to visit and where to stay?
We’ll have three weeks on the ground... and we like to mix sightseeing with downtime where we just enjoy the moment. So we’re not looking for an overly packed itinerary, but still something rich (no point traveling so far just to lie on a sunbed all day ;-))
Thanks so much in advance for your advice!
Albin
Hi everyone, I’m planning to go to Thailand in January 2026 for two months, so I’d love to hear about all your experiences!
For flights, how do you book a ticket without knowing the exact return date? And for accommodation, what do you recommend—renting from France or once I’m there?
Thanks in advance to everyone!
For flights, how do you book a ticket without knowing the exact return date? And for accommodation, what do you recommend—renting from France or once I’m there?
Thanks in advance to everyone!
Hi there,
I’m so glad the VoyageForum is back up. Reading 'Montagnard74’s' Laos trip report (which I read yesterday) made me want to share my own (which I already posted a year ago on another forum).
Here’s a little recap of our 3 weeks in northern Laos, plus a few days in Vientiane.
By the way, we could easily go back to the north—there’s so much to see and do; probably in a few years.
This was our 3rd trip to Laos after having already done:
1st trip in 2012 (3 weeks), a quick overview: Vientiane Vang Vieng Luang Prabang Plain of Jars
2nd trip in 2017 (1 month): Vientiane all the way to the 4,000 Islands via Thakhek, Kong Lor, the Bolaven Plateau, Savannakhet, Pakse...
Our 2023 itinerary (1 month): Vientiane Luang Prabang Muang Ngoi Nong Khiew Luang Namtha Muang Sing Boten Vang Vieng Vientiane
Some general info (2023): For those who’ve already been to Laos: everything has gone up a lot—I think prices have almost doubled for transport, accommodation, meals... everything. But Laos is still a budget-friendly country for us. As a couple, we spent 1,100 € for a month, all included (and we definitely didn’t skimp on massages :)).
Don’t trust the transport signs posted everywhere—at travel agencies, bus terminals, hotels... THEY’RE ALL WRONG (especially the schedules). They haven’t been updated since before Covid.
There are hardly any bikes for rent anymore, but scooters are easy to find everywhere. We switched our mode of transport toward the end of our stay: from bikes to scooters, which let us go farther. In Vientiane, we only saw one bike rental place, near Ong Teu Pagoda.
BCEL bank doesn’t charge a commission on foreign currency exchanges. Using ATMs is expensive due to fees. Outside Laos, Lao kip are basically worthless. There’s so much inflation that I couldn’t find a single bank or exchange office willing to swap the kip we had left. So, don’t exchange too much toward the end of your trip.
Some little tips from our experience (2023): The Muang Koua to Muang Ngoi boat still runs daily. At the dam, you have to get off and take a bus, then get back on the boat.
The boat from Muang Ngoi to Nong Khiew only leaves at 9:30 AM (don’t miss it or you’ll pay a lot for a private boat). From Nong Khiew to Muang Ngoi, there are at least two boats a day.
From Luang Namtha to Muang Sing: 4 to 5 buses a day, the last one leaves around 3:30 PM.
From Luang Namtha or Muang Sing to Nateuy or Boten (to catch the new train): 3 to 5 buses a day.
The new train is really hard to book—it’s often fully booked 48 hours in advance, even the local train (5 hours from Boten to Vientiane instead of 3 hours on the high-speed train). (That makes it tough to travel day by day, which we love... too bad.) For baggage checks: don’t bring anything flammable (sprays...) or sharp. My mosquito repellent (flammable but in a small plastic bottle) got through. Water bottles and a tiny pocketknife are okay. But it seems to depend on the station.
Some guesthouses prefer to be paid in dollars, otherwise the price is much higher.
If you’re entering Laos from Vietnam via Dien Bien Phu, you have to get your visa at the embassy in Hanoi—otherwise, you’ll be refused at the border (no e-visa or visa on arrival).
Apart from Luang Prabang, Vientiane, and Muang Ngoi/Nong Khiew, there are very few tourists.
Some bus prices (in addition to those mentioned in my trip report) (with pick-up) 2023: Luang Prabang to Luang Namtha: 320,000 kip per person, 9h LP to Phonesavan: 250,000 kip per person, 7h LP to Phongsaly: 450,000 kip per person, 13h LP to Huay Xai: 420,000 kip per person, 14h Train Nateuy to Vientiane: 400,000 kip per person LP to Chiang Rai: 780,000 kip per person, 18h LP to Hanoi: 900,000 kip per person, 24h LP to train station: 50,000 kip per person LP to airport: 100,000 kip per person Vientiane from train station: 180,000 kip by taxi
Boats: LP to Pak Beng: 300,000 kip per person, 1 day LP to Houay Xai: 500,000 kip per person, 2 days LP to Pak Ou: 180,000 kip per person, 5h
This was our 3rd trip to Laos after having already done:
1st trip in 2012 (3 weeks), a quick overview: Vientiane Vang Vieng Luang Prabang Plain of Jars
2nd trip in 2017 (1 month): Vientiane all the way to the 4,000 Islands via Thakhek, Kong Lor, the Bolaven Plateau, Savannakhet, Pakse...
Our 2023 itinerary (1 month): Vientiane Luang Prabang Muang Ngoi Nong Khiew Luang Namtha Muang Sing Boten Vang Vieng Vientiane
Some general info (2023): For those who’ve already been to Laos: everything has gone up a lot—I think prices have almost doubled for transport, accommodation, meals... everything. But Laos is still a budget-friendly country for us. As a couple, we spent 1,100 € for a month, all included (and we definitely didn’t skimp on massages :)).
Don’t trust the transport signs posted everywhere—at travel agencies, bus terminals, hotels... THEY’RE ALL WRONG (especially the schedules). They haven’t been updated since before Covid.
There are hardly any bikes for rent anymore, but scooters are easy to find everywhere. We switched our mode of transport toward the end of our stay: from bikes to scooters, which let us go farther. In Vientiane, we only saw one bike rental place, near Ong Teu Pagoda.
BCEL bank doesn’t charge a commission on foreign currency exchanges. Using ATMs is expensive due to fees. Outside Laos, Lao kip are basically worthless. There’s so much inflation that I couldn’t find a single bank or exchange office willing to swap the kip we had left. So, don’t exchange too much toward the end of your trip.
Some little tips from our experience (2023): The Muang Koua to Muang Ngoi boat still runs daily. At the dam, you have to get off and take a bus, then get back on the boat.
The boat from Muang Ngoi to Nong Khiew only leaves at 9:30 AM (don’t miss it or you’ll pay a lot for a private boat). From Nong Khiew to Muang Ngoi, there are at least two boats a day.
From Luang Namtha to Muang Sing: 4 to 5 buses a day, the last one leaves around 3:30 PM.
From Luang Namtha or Muang Sing to Nateuy or Boten (to catch the new train): 3 to 5 buses a day.
The new train is really hard to book—it’s often fully booked 48 hours in advance, even the local train (5 hours from Boten to Vientiane instead of 3 hours on the high-speed train). (That makes it tough to travel day by day, which we love... too bad.) For baggage checks: don’t bring anything flammable (sprays...) or sharp. My mosquito repellent (flammable but in a small plastic bottle) got through. Water bottles and a tiny pocketknife are okay. But it seems to depend on the station.
Some guesthouses prefer to be paid in dollars, otherwise the price is much higher.
If you’re entering Laos from Vietnam via Dien Bien Phu, you have to get your visa at the embassy in Hanoi—otherwise, you’ll be refused at the border (no e-visa or visa on arrival).
Apart from Luang Prabang, Vientiane, and Muang Ngoi/Nong Khiew, there are very few tourists.
Some bus prices (in addition to those mentioned in my trip report) (with pick-up) 2023: Luang Prabang to Luang Namtha: 320,000 kip per person, 9h LP to Phonesavan: 250,000 kip per person, 7h LP to Phongsaly: 450,000 kip per person, 13h LP to Huay Xai: 420,000 kip per person, 14h Train Nateuy to Vientiane: 400,000 kip per person LP to Chiang Rai: 780,000 kip per person, 18h LP to Hanoi: 900,000 kip per person, 24h LP to train station: 50,000 kip per person LP to airport: 100,000 kip per person Vientiane from train station: 180,000 kip by taxi
Boats: LP to Pak Beng: 300,000 kip per person, 1 day LP to Houay Xai: 500,000 kip per person, 2 days LP to Pak Ou: 180,000 kip per person, 5h
Hi everyone on the forum, happy to be back!
I’m planning a 15-day trip to Flores in October. I’m coming from Bali, which I know well, as well as Lombok and Sulawesi, but it’s my first time in Flores.
I’d love to hear about your experiences—what should I see? How long should I stay at each stop?
I travel at a relaxed pace and won’t be renting a scooter. I enjoy walking, exploring, and taking it easy—not just lounging on beaches. For some trips, I can hire a driver and car if public transport is complicated.
Thanks for your tips! 🙂
Hi everyone,
I’m currently planning a trip to Malaysia for January 2025.
I’ve got three transport questions for you all!
1: I arrive at 3 PM at Kuala Lumpur Airport and plan to take a direct bus to Malacca. Is booking a bus for 5 PM feasible, or is it too tight after collecting luggage? And which platform is the most reliable? Redbus, 12GO Asia, Rome2RIO, busonlineticket? Or can I buy a ticket on the spot without a reservation? Is that too risky? Alternatively, is it better to take a Grab? I saw the fare was around 60 €. Can you confirm this price? And is it easy to find a Grab from the airport for this distance?
2: Penang to Cameron Highlands (Tanah Rata) route—I saw there’s a direct bus that takes 5 hours. Can you confirm this? And is this duration realistic?
3: Cameron Highlands to Pangkor: This one’s tricky... The best I’ve found is 2 buses + a ferry + a taxi. Do you have a better suggestion?
Thanks for your help! Guy
1: I arrive at 3 PM at Kuala Lumpur Airport and plan to take a direct bus to Malacca. Is booking a bus for 5 PM feasible, or is it too tight after collecting luggage? And which platform is the most reliable? Redbus, 12GO Asia, Rome2RIO, busonlineticket? Or can I buy a ticket on the spot without a reservation? Is that too risky? Alternatively, is it better to take a Grab? I saw the fare was around 60 €. Can you confirm this price? And is it easy to find a Grab from the airport for this distance?
2: Penang to Cameron Highlands (Tanah Rata) route—I saw there’s a direct bus that takes 5 hours. Can you confirm this? And is this duration realistic?
3: Cameron Highlands to Pangkor: This one’s tricky... The best I’ve found is 2 buses + a ferry + a taxi. Do you have a better suggestion?
Thanks for your help! Guy
Hi everyone,
My girlfriend and I booked our tickets with Saudia Airlines for a trip to Thailand this summer, from July 5th to August 3rd. Given the geopolitical situation in the Middle East, we’re keeping a close eye on the news.
I was wondering if anyone here is in the same situation as us?
• Have you heard anything about possible mass cancellations or if the airline is still maintaining its routes to Asia?
• Are there any travelers who’ve recently returned who could tell us if air corridors have been changed (longer flight times)?
The idea is to know what to expect so we can prepare as best as possible. Thanks for your replies! !
Hi there,
As mentioned earlier, we're heading off for a month to explore some parts of Thailand in July/August, and I’ve got a few practical questions I’m hoping you can help with based on your experiences. Thanks in advance!
- Can you choose the denominations at exchange bureaus/ATMs? How do you avoid ending up with only 1000-baht notes when exchanging large sums? - If not, is there an easy way to get change? Any alternatives to buying stuff at 7-Eleven? - Can you buy train tickets from Thonburi to Kanchanaburi in advance? Is there usually space available, considering some people do the Death Railway day trip from Bangkok to Sai Yok Noi? - Is there room for luggage on the trains to Kanchanaburi? We’ll be traveling as a group of four with two large checked-baggage-sized suitcases (25 kg each). - Kanchanaburi: Most day tours allow around 3 hours at Erawan Falls. Is that enough, or is it worth spending the whole day there, especially at the start of the rainy season when it’s a bit greener? - In Sam Roi Yot, are there taxis/Grab/Bolt available for exploring the surrounding areas? I’d appreciate any numbers or addresses. - Does True (7-Eleven) have good coverage across Thailand, from Sam Roi Yot to Chiang Rai, or should we go with AIS? - In Bangkok, if you need to switch BTS lines, do you need a new ticket, or can you change lines as long as you don’t exit the station?
Happy to provide any additional details if needed.
- Can you choose the denominations at exchange bureaus/ATMs? How do you avoid ending up with only 1000-baht notes when exchanging large sums? - If not, is there an easy way to get change? Any alternatives to buying stuff at 7-Eleven? - Can you buy train tickets from Thonburi to Kanchanaburi in advance? Is there usually space available, considering some people do the Death Railway day trip from Bangkok to Sai Yok Noi? - Is there room for luggage on the trains to Kanchanaburi? We’ll be traveling as a group of four with two large checked-baggage-sized suitcases (25 kg each). - Kanchanaburi: Most day tours allow around 3 hours at Erawan Falls. Is that enough, or is it worth spending the whole day there, especially at the start of the rainy season when it’s a bit greener? - In Sam Roi Yot, are there taxis/Grab/Bolt available for exploring the surrounding areas? I’d appreciate any numbers or addresses. - Does True (7-Eleven) have good coverage across Thailand, from Sam Roi Yot to Chiang Rai, or should we go with AIS? - In Bangkok, if you need to switch BTS lines, do you need a new ticket, or can you change lines as long as you don’t exit the station?
Happy to provide any additional details if needed.
Hello everyone,
we’re planning a trip to Vietnam at the end of June 2026 for at least two weeks.
Our goal is to avoid rushing around too much and take our time, focusing on nature, hiking, and getting to know the locals.
Here’s my first draft itinerary:
Arrival and departure from Hanoi
Sapa and its surrounding area
Tam Coc – the "land Halong Bay"
and Ninh Binh...
Halong Bay (maritime)
Cat Ba Island...
I’d love to hear your thoughts, advice, and feedback.
Looking forward to reading your replies.
Cédric
Hi there,
During our Thailand trip, we're planning to arrive in Bangkok and then head up to Chiang Mai. So far, so good.
But after that, we'd like to go to the islands—either Krabi or Koh Samui.
However, the flights listed on 12go.asia seem complicated, with a layover of about 1 hour in Bangkok where we'd have to collect our luggage and check in for the second flight. That feels way too tight.
So, I'd love to hear about your experiences with this route and any tips you might have. Thanks everyone!
So, I'd love to hear about your experiences with this route and any tips you might have. Thanks everyone!
Hello everyone,
My husband and I are planning a trip to Thailand from January 2 to 10. Departure from Brussels on January 1 – arriving in Bangkok at 6:00 AM on January 2. Departure from Bangkok on January 11 at 2:00 AM, arriving in Brussels at 1:25 PM the same day. For professional and personal reasons, we can’t extend the trip.
I don’t plan on just lounging on a beach in Phuket, so with 9 days on the ground, I know it’s short... But having done this before in Hong Kong and Shanghai, I know it’s doable, refreshing, and enjoyable. We did it with the kids and included a 2- or 3-day stay at Disneyland in each city. Basically, we spent 5-6 days in each city.
Anyway, I’m reaching out because I’ve heard and read so many conflicting opinions that my head is spinning.
Following the saying, "don’t bite off more than you can chew," I’m assuming I should keep it simple. So I’m torn between just Bangkok or Bangkok and Chiang Mai.
If I go with the second option, I’m debating whether to head straight to Chiang Mai on the day we arrive (but given the flight times, we’d lose pretty much the whole day) or spend two days in Bangkok first, then go to Chiang Mai for 3-4 days, and return to Bangkok.
Thanks for your advice!
My husband and I are planning a trip to Thailand from January 2 to 10. Departure from Brussels on January 1 – arriving in Bangkok at 6:00 AM on January 2. Departure from Bangkok on January 11 at 2:00 AM, arriving in Brussels at 1:25 PM the same day. For professional and personal reasons, we can’t extend the trip.
I don’t plan on just lounging on a beach in Phuket, so with 9 days on the ground, I know it’s short... But having done this before in Hong Kong and Shanghai, I know it’s doable, refreshing, and enjoyable. We did it with the kids and included a 2- or 3-day stay at Disneyland in each city. Basically, we spent 5-6 days in each city.
Anyway, I’m reaching out because I’ve heard and read so many conflicting opinions that my head is spinning.
Following the saying, "don’t bite off more than you can chew," I’m assuming I should keep it simple. So I’m torn between just Bangkok or Bangkok and Chiang Mai.
If I go with the second option, I’m debating whether to head straight to Chiang Mai on the day we arrive (but given the flight times, we’d lose pretty much the whole day) or spend two days in Bangkok first, then go to Chiang Mai for 3-4 days, and return to Bangkok.
Thanks for your advice!
Hi everyone,
Family of 4—2 adults and 2 kids (11 and 15) who are well-traveled. We’re planning a 15-day trip to Indonesia and would love your thoughts on our itinerary. We love discovering local culture, food (!!), seeing beautiful landscapes, and keeping an active pace. We’re not the type to lounge on the beach for 5 hours or spend ages by the pool when we’re halfway across the world. Also, we try to avoid places "ruined" by mass tourism (like Holbox in Mexico, which we loved 10 years ago but not at all on our last visit, or Phi Phi in Thailand, completely destroyed by mass tourism).
Special note: we love traveling by train :)
Here’s what we’ve planned so far:
**Day 1** Arrival in Jakarta, then domestic flight to Yogyakarta. Settle in Yogyakarta.
**Day 2** Borobudur in the morning, then exploring nearby villages.
**Day 3** Prambanan in the morning, followed by culinary discovery / market / local vibe in Yogyakarta.
**Day 4** Train to Jombang, then driver/bus to the Bromo area. Overnight stay.
**Day 5** Sunrise at Bromo, exploring the volcano and sea of sand. Relax in the afternoon.
**Day 6** Travel to eastern Java, then train, ferry, and road to reach Sidemen in Bali.
**Day 7** Sidemen
**Day 8** Sidemen
**Day 9** Sidemen
**Day 10** Transfer to Gili Air (car to the port + fast boat?)
**Day 11** Gili Air
**Day 12** Gili Air
**Day 13** Transfer to Ubud
**Day 14** Ubud
**Day 15** Return to Bali airport, flight to Jakarta, then international flight.
Does this itinerary seem coherent for a family? Does it feel too packed or well-balanced? Would you make any changes to certain stops, durations, or transfers?
Thanks so much for your tips and experiences!
Family of 4—2 adults and 2 kids (11 and 15) who are well-traveled. We’re planning a 15-day trip to Indonesia and would love your thoughts on our itinerary. We love discovering local culture, food (!!), seeing beautiful landscapes, and keeping an active pace. We’re not the type to lounge on the beach for 5 hours or spend ages by the pool when we’re halfway across the world. Also, we try to avoid places "ruined" by mass tourism (like Holbox in Mexico, which we loved 10 years ago but not at all on our last visit, or Phi Phi in Thailand, completely destroyed by mass tourism).
Special note: we love traveling by train :)
Here’s what we’ve planned so far:
**Day 1** Arrival in Jakarta, then domestic flight to Yogyakarta. Settle in Yogyakarta.
**Day 2** Borobudur in the morning, then exploring nearby villages.
**Day 3** Prambanan in the morning, followed by culinary discovery / market / local vibe in Yogyakarta.
**Day 4** Train to Jombang, then driver/bus to the Bromo area. Overnight stay.
**Day 5** Sunrise at Bromo, exploring the volcano and sea of sand. Relax in the afternoon.
**Day 6** Travel to eastern Java, then train, ferry, and road to reach Sidemen in Bali.
**Day 7** Sidemen
**Day 8** Sidemen
**Day 9** Sidemen
**Day 10** Transfer to Gili Air (car to the port + fast boat?)
**Day 11** Gili Air
**Day 12** Gili Air
**Day 13** Transfer to Ubud
**Day 14** Ubud
**Day 15** Return to Bali airport, flight to Jakarta, then international flight.
Does this itinerary seem coherent for a family? Does it feel too packed or well-balanced? Would you make any changes to certain stops, durations, or transfers?
Thanks so much for your tips and experiences!
Hi, just a quick note mainly for Samsong, even if he’s still giving me the silent treatment.
I’ve been in Nan since yesterday and... I love it! So thanks, Thierry. It’s exactly the kind of place I’d been dreaming of... Even if communication is a bit tough, it’s not impossible. They don’t even know the most basic English words! Everyone laughs and they’re the first to pull out their phones to... translate. They’re even quicker on the uptake than I am.
And then there’s the time I say Nan (pronounced "Nane"). They don’t understand me. After a while (sometimes a long one), they reply: "Ah, Nan?" (pronounced "Nane") 😵🤳😃
The town is exactly how you described it back in 2022. Though I’m surprised to find so many trendy, slightly intellectual "Cafés." Apparently, coffee—excellent everywhere—is king in Nan. It feels like a university town. And it seems pretty lively at night! But for now, I’m going to bed early. I caught a nasty cold, which didn’t stop me from walking 12 km this morning. But I came back to my accommodation by 3 PM (gorgeous and luxurious with top-notch service for 800 baht—even a cute local welcome gift this morning, plus other unexpected touches like a bottle of honey and chrysanthemum flowers for tea. The lady must’ve guessed I was coming down with something yesterday). I thought about going out for dinner but didn’t have the energy. I think I’ve got at least 39°C fever...
Anyway, I’m sending you this message, Thierry, because you mentioned a daily bus to Chiang Rai, so I didn’t look into it. But now it’s a real problem—no buses to Chiang Rai, only taxis. At least 2,500 baht for the cheapest one! I’ll check the bus station directly tomorrow. Online, it’s all taxis, no buses. I’d like to explore the countryside/mountains if I can find an affordable driver. Any ideas for destinations or itineraries? Thanks.
The town is exactly how you described it back in 2022. Though I’m surprised to find so many trendy, slightly intellectual "Cafés." Apparently, coffee—excellent everywhere—is king in Nan. It feels like a university town. And it seems pretty lively at night! But for now, I’m going to bed early. I caught a nasty cold, which didn’t stop me from walking 12 km this morning. But I came back to my accommodation by 3 PM (gorgeous and luxurious with top-notch service for 800 baht—even a cute local welcome gift this morning, plus other unexpected touches like a bottle of honey and chrysanthemum flowers for tea. The lady must’ve guessed I was coming down with something yesterday). I thought about going out for dinner but didn’t have the energy. I think I’ve got at least 39°C fever...
Anyway, I’m sending you this message, Thierry, because you mentioned a daily bus to Chiang Rai, so I didn’t look into it. But now it’s a real problem—no buses to Chiang Rai, only taxis. At least 2,500 baht for the cheapest one! I’ll check the bus station directly tomorrow. Online, it’s all taxis, no buses. I’d like to explore the countryside/mountains if I can find an affordable driver. Any ideas for destinations or itineraries? Thanks.
I'm looking to rent a scooter in Saigon and be able to return it in Hoi An. If anyone knows an agency that does this
🙂 Hi everyone!
Hope you're all doing well! It's been a while since I last traveled, but I'm finally heading out again soon!
For those familiar with SOUTHEAST ASIA, I'm planning to leave in mid-June (with the trip ending at the latest in November), and I don’t have a precise idea of exact places or itineraries yet. The thing is, this period is usually the rainy season...
Any advice? I was thinking of Malaysia or Indonesia, like Sulawesi, for example (all countries and islands in Southeast Asia interest me except Bali).
Any recommendations? I’m doing my research online, but if anyone here has the time and knowledge, I’d love to hear from you.
Thanks everyone, take care and stay happy! ❤️
Hope you're all doing well! It's been a while since I last traveled, but I'm finally heading out again soon!
For those familiar with SOUTHEAST ASIA, I'm planning to leave in mid-June (with the trip ending at the latest in November), and I don’t have a precise idea of exact places or itineraries yet. The thing is, this period is usually the rainy season...
Any advice? I was thinking of Malaysia or Indonesia, like Sulawesi, for example (all countries and islands in Southeast Asia interest me except Bali).
Any recommendations? I’m doing my research online, but if anyone here has the time and knowledge, I’d love to hear from you.
Thanks everyone, take care and stay happy! ❤️
hi everyone,
I want to travel in the north for 3 weeks in September-October 2026 to meet ethnic minorities, photograph mountain rice terraces and their harvest, and revisit Halong Bay—but maybe Lan Ha Bay instead. Can you recommend one or more local agencies?
Thanks, and happy holidays!
I really loved Thailand, but it was too touristy for my taste. So I'm hesitating about going back and wondering if Cambodia or Vietnam would be less crowded with tourists...
Hi there,
I’m planning a trip to Laos from October 29 to November 15.
Day 1: Arrive in Bangkok, flights to Ubon Ratchathani, then car to Don Khone Island
Day 2: Visit the islands with a boat cruise and bike ride
November 3: Head to the Bolaven Plateau
Day 4: Bolaven Plateau
Day 5: Road to Vientiane
Days 6 & 7: Vientiane, including the That Luang Festival
Day 8: Road to Luang Prabang – car or train?
Days 9, 10, 11: Head north for treks with ethnic minorities
Day 12: Head to the Mekong for a cruise
After that, I’m not sure whether to return via Chiang Rai or Vientiane to get back to Bangkok. My return flight is on Saturday, November 15, or maybe Sunday the 16th.
Is this doable?
Thanks
Hi,
Does anyone have the contact details for a French-speaking guide?
Hello everyone! :)
Our next trip to Thailand is coming up, and we just can't wait! We talk, eat, drink, and dream Thailand 😏
Our itinerary is mostly set, and we’ve found quite a few new things to explore, but I’d still love to hear your recommendations for Bangkok. Just so you know: we love this city, and every time we visit, we spend several days there without ever feeling like we’ve seen it all. So this year, we’re staying for 8 days! Here’s what we have planned this year: * Exploring Nonthaburi * A day trip to Nakhon Pathom (to test out our basic Thai skills 😛) * Khlong Lat Mayom floating market (we went 10 years ago—it’s probably changed a lot!) * The Erawan Museum (we visited Muang Boran on our last trip) * Finally taking the time to check out Wat Phra Sri Maha Mariamman and Wat Yannawa (we’ve planned to go several times but never made it—are they worth a visit?)
This is what we’ve picked so far, but I’d love to hear about the favorite spots and recommendations from travelers who, like us, adore Bangkok.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Laetitia and Benjamin.
Our next trip to Thailand is coming up, and we just can't wait! We talk, eat, drink, and dream Thailand 😏
Our itinerary is mostly set, and we’ve found quite a few new things to explore, but I’d still love to hear your recommendations for Bangkok. Just so you know: we love this city, and every time we visit, we spend several days there without ever feeling like we’ve seen it all. So this year, we’re staying for 8 days! Here’s what we have planned this year: * Exploring Nonthaburi * A day trip to Nakhon Pathom (to test out our basic Thai skills 😛) * Khlong Lat Mayom floating market (we went 10 years ago—it’s probably changed a lot!) * The Erawan Museum (we visited Muang Boran on our last trip) * Finally taking the time to check out Wat Phra Sri Maha Mariamman and Wat Yannawa (we’ve planned to go several times but never made it—are they worth a visit?)
This is what we’ve picked so far, but I’d love to hear about the favorite spots and recommendations from travelers who, like us, adore Bangkok.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Laetitia and Benjamin.
My kids are dreaming of discovering Indonesia this summer—they’ll be celebrating their 15th and 20th birthdays! For the occasion, I was thinking of Sulawesi, a bit farther from Bali’s crowds.
I usually plan my trips myself, but I’ll admit I’m a little lost when it comes to transportation and logistics. We’d be there for about 18 days.
I’ve looked into guided tours, but the prices are pretty high. North or south for 3 weeks? Anyone have any firsthand experience to share?
I usually plan my trips myself, but I’ll admit I’m a little lost when it comes to transportation and logistics. We’d be there for about 18 days.
I’ve looked into guided tours, but the prices are pretty high. North or south for 3 weeks? Anyone have any firsthand experience to share?
Hi there,
I’m reaching out not for myself for once😛, but for a family member who’s heading to Bali in a month and has a thousand questions. Since she doesn’t spend much time online and I don’t know this part of the world at all, I thought I’d ask for feedback here. Here’s what she’s planning:
Departure Arrival > UBUD UBUD UBUD UBUD UBUD - PEMUTERAN PEMUTERAN PEMUTERAN - MUNDUK MUNDUK MUNDUK - SIDEMEN SIDEMEN SIDEMEN - SEMINYAK SEMINYAK - DENPASAR - Flight to Komodo FLORES/KOMODO/RINCA FLORES/KOMODO/RINCA Flight to DENPASAR - SANUR Departure
She knows UBUD is very touristy but plans to stay there and take day trips from there. Her main question: is it worth going to Flores just for Komodo? Agencies apparently offer mini-cruises for 2-3 days... Type of trip: 2 adults, no kids. They like taking their time and don’t want to rush. I think they don’t mind touristy spots but still hope to find some authenticity. Thanks for your thoughts!
I’m reaching out not for myself for once😛, but for a family member who’s heading to Bali in a month and has a thousand questions. Since she doesn’t spend much time online and I don’t know this part of the world at all, I thought I’d ask for feedback here. Here’s what she’s planning:
Departure Arrival > UBUD UBUD UBUD UBUD UBUD - PEMUTERAN PEMUTERAN PEMUTERAN - MUNDUK MUNDUK MUNDUK - SIDEMEN SIDEMEN SIDEMEN - SEMINYAK SEMINYAK - DENPASAR - Flight to Komodo FLORES/KOMODO/RINCA FLORES/KOMODO/RINCA Flight to DENPASAR - SANUR Departure
She knows UBUD is very touristy but plans to stay there and take day trips from there. Her main question: is it worth going to Flores just for Komodo? Agencies apparently offer mini-cruises for 2-3 days... Type of trip: 2 adults, no kids. They like taking their time and don’t want to rush. I think they don’t mind touristy spots but still hope to find some authenticity. Thanks for your thoughts!










