Posts by Pofomax

Thanks for this helpful reply—blunt but useful. I’m asking questions because I’m not sure if these choices are the right ones, obviously. Travel is about hospitality, sharing, and smiles, isn’t it? ;)

"So why include Gili Air?" It might sound odd, but we love coastal environments—the sea often creates stunning landscapes, and we enjoy walking along the beach. It’s not at all about lying on the sand doing nothing. Our first trip to Holbox is etched in my memory forever, and we didn’t even swim. Maybe it’s still a bad choice for that, though.

As for Ubud, it’s because everyone I know who’s been to Indonesia said they enjoyed it despite the tourism. If it’s really shoulder-to-shoulder crowds, then it’s definitely not for us. But we’ve loved some touristy spots around the world—Aït Ben Haddou in Morocco, the tombs of Luxor, Bacalar in Mexico, etc. When I say "destroyed by tourism," I mean no local life left and everything feeling internationalized.

Anyway, thanks for all the tips, and if you have any suggestions for tweaking the itinerary, they’re very welcome! ;)

Oh right, sorry, thanks! 15 days between July and August ;)

Hi everyone,

Family of 4—2 adults and 2 kids (11 and 15) who are well-traveled. We’re planning a 15-day trip to Indonesia and would love your thoughts on our itinerary. We love discovering local culture, food (!!), seeing beautiful landscapes, and keeping an active pace. We’re not the type to lounge on the beach for 5 hours or spend ages by the pool when we’re halfway across the world. Also, we try to avoid places "ruined" by mass tourism (like Holbox in Mexico, which we loved 10 years ago but not at all on our last visit, or Phi Phi in Thailand, completely destroyed by mass tourism).

Special note: we love traveling by train :)

Here’s what we’ve planned so far:

**Day 1** Arrival in Jakarta, then domestic flight to Yogyakarta. Settle in Yogyakarta.

**Day 2** Borobudur in the morning, then exploring nearby villages.

**Day 3** Prambanan in the morning, followed by culinary discovery / market / local vibe in Yogyakarta.

**Day 4** Train to Jombang, then driver/bus to the Bromo area. Overnight stay.

**Day 5** Sunrise at Bromo, exploring the volcano and sea of sand. Relax in the afternoon.

**Day 6** Travel to eastern Java, then train, ferry, and road to reach Sidemen in Bali.

**Day 7** Sidemen

**Day 8** Sidemen

**Day 9** Sidemen

**Day 10** Transfer to Gili Air (car to the port + fast boat?)

**Day 11** Gili Air

**Day 12** Gili Air

**Day 13** Transfer to Ubud

**Day 14** Ubud

**Day 15** Return to Bali airport, flight to Jakarta, then international flight.

Does this itinerary seem coherent for a family? Does it feel too packed or well-balanced? Would you make any changes to certain stops, durations, or transfers?

Thanks so much for your tips and experiences!

As mentioned, we’ve completely ruled out Ouarzazate as well as the film studios. Ouarzazate will only be visited to reach the airport for your return flight

+ than 380 yes For the services, it seems similar—both include a 2-hour 4x4 ride to the camp, meals, breakfast, etc. On paper, it’s pretty much the same.

So I don’t feel as much like a sitting duck, as the first reactions made me think.

I’ll chat more with Phil to find out exactly what’s included ;)

Thanks

Regarding the itinerary, since we hadn’t seen your latest tips, we planned a more classic loop (RAK > Aït Ben Haddou > Skoura > Dades > Tinghir > Zagora > Erg Chegaga > OZZ just for the flight) and extended the stay because the initial 9 days were too short. We’ll have 11 full days. Traveling with two kids (10 and 14), we find it more comfortable and reassuring to do a classic tour, even if it means being among the tourists who all see the same things. The difference is we won’t come back saying "we’ve ‘done’ Morocco"—but anyway.

We know it’s a whirlwind, but at the same time, we don’t have unlimited vacation time.

Usually, we do it this way and return to the same place a few years later to focus on just one area. We travel a lot, and this is how we enjoy it ;)

I saw 500 € per person mentioned on a blog, or maybe I found it via Google Maps—I can’t remember. That seemed huge to me. Based on your experiences, what’s the normal price?

I contacted Phil and I’m waiting for his reply. Thanks

OK, thanks, that’s great then!

Hi, Same remarks... This is a "throw a stone and see what happens" kind of program... 😇... Go to Skoura and Fint to head back to Dadès, not great either...

Since you clearly don’t want to stop and want to see as much as possible—which is your choice after all—I’d need a month, even rushing, to do your loop... and that’s if I don’t run into too many friends along the way...😛

I’d just suggest a variant that’s as crazy as yours but much prettier and way less "cutesy" than some of the tourist traps, like visiting the Zazate studios, which is a total scam for gullible tourists... If you *really* want to see something film-related, check out the cinema museum in the center, across from the Taourirt kasbah... The guy who created it doesn’t manage it anymore and couldn’t care less (he went to Sciences Po, though, and I love the guy ^^). The idea is more "cultural" than the nonsense you’re about to put your kids through... Ouarzazate is my turf—I’ve been hanging out there for over 20 years, for work, but Perju’s right: move along, there’s nothing to see...

Fint, the oasis hyped up by all the YouTubers, Facebookers, and—worse—TikTokers who spend 5 days in Morocco and then write million-page guides about everything you *need* to know about the country... Really not a priority for an ultra-short road trip...

So if I understood correctly, you’ve got 9 days, meaning 8 nights there...

Night 1: MRK...

Night 2: AGOUTI OR TABANT (I figured it’s not great to do the Tichka twice), so I’d head to Ait Bouli, then the Ait Bougemez valley... Anne, a Swiss woman, runs a really nice hostel, Auberge Flilou ("poppies" in English), on Google Maps—check it out near Agouti... There are others in Tabant for all budgets... Count about 6 hours of driving from MRK via Demnate. After Demnate, you’ll get some stunning scenery (a few spots with *Jurassic Park* vibes and a cute little village with an old granary on your left near Ighir n’Tissent, and a bit later, a small village on a ridge to your right: Iguelouan, pretty spectacular from the road...

Night 3: Bou Tharar... A bit of very high mountain action to prove those *Guide du Routard* clowns wrong about the highest paved passes in Morocco—there are two around here that put the Tichka to shame... After Tabant, a nice climb up the Tizi Ait Imi (the "mouth pass") to descend into the M’Goun valley and then back up the Tizi Ait Hamed at 3,050 m... Gorgeous AND paved... (Hurry up and visit the area before influencers claim they discovered America.) On the way down, some beautiful hairpin turns, then head to Bou Tharar. There are several nice places if you insist, but don’t always follow the pavement... If you’re not afraid of dirt roads, a small, easy detour will take you through the Amejgag gorges (you won’t be bothered by tourists there). I can give you the GPS tracks and points... There are also a few really nice, remote spots before Bou Tharar that are cheap and authentic—real local vibes. FYI, Bou Tharar is kind of the end of the Valley of the Roses...

Night 4: Tinghir... From Bou Tharar, there’s an easy 8 km dirt road that cuts through the massif and connects to the Dadès valley (near Ait Youl) and its beautiful—but sadly overdeveloped—succession of new hostels (though it calms down near Tilmi... for now). From there, you’ll climb the Tizi Ouanno pass (everything’s paved or easy on dirt roads—yeah, those days of roughing it are long gone ^^). On the other side, you’ll pass through Agoudal and descend to Tinghir via the Todgha gorges... (A few nice spots near Agoudal, but no time.)

Night 5: Zagora... From Tinghir, head back toward Boulmane (sorry about Skoura, but you should’ve come 10–15 years ago or more—now it’s a sick, overhyped palm grove, just like Fint, sold by hordes of tourists who’ve invested in fancy hostels. Of course, the YouTubers and TikTokers who "discovered" Morocco three years ago know how to sell it in their blogs...). From Boulmane, head toward Inkioun and cross the Saghro via easy paved roads through the Tizi Tazazert, which, last I heard, has been suffering from severe depression ever since little Logans started crossing it innocently... On the way down (oops, quick stop for orange juice or tea at Auberge Tirza and a viewpoint over the Azzefar canyon), you’ll hit Bab n’Ali... How to put it... Well, it’s basically a big, hard zigzag, but the area’s worth remembering for some great hikes... Then continue to N’Kob... Still paved... After that, turn right toward Zagora via Tanskhite. My heart aches that I can’t tell you about the insane dirt roads in the Saghro or the few beautiful little surprises on the way to Zagora, but I hope the landscape will blow your mind enough to make you want to come back for another trip with *at least* five times more time... or five trips... Zagora: I approve of the hostel Perju recommended. The name’s terrible, but otherwise, I like going to Auberge Soleil du Monde—it’s nice with kids and far from the city... Take a relaxed walk in the evening or morning through the old town of Amzrou; the owner’s really friendly...

Night 6: Chegaga. You’ll have time to go to M’Hamid, but stop just before at Bounou at Camping Esprit Désert (also recommended by Perju, which I approve of), run by Phil, who knows his stuff and can organize a great night in the desert at Chegaga. Otherwise, try M’Hamid—though at Petit Prince, you’ll mostly find charming scammers offering you overpriced junk (if you haven’t been hassled already, because the smooth talkers here are on top form).

Night 7: Do what you want, but enjoy the desert with your kids without rushing, especially since you won’t have your rental car (unless it’s a 4x4)... Head back slowly and why not sleep at the Ksar of Timidarte... Or even head to Ait Ben Haddou if you’re short on time...

Night 8: MRK. On the way back, you’ll have time to stop at Ait Ben Haddou, but even though the place has been ruined lately, it’s still fun for the kids—especially since Kurt Russell peed against the palm tree there (no, I’m keeping that secret to myself)... Obviously, head back via the Ounila, Telouet, and the Tichka...

It’s doable, but it’s a race... Unless your car breaks down, it’s less packed than your first proposal...

Sorry we didn’t see this message—it got buried under the replies about forum features, etc. Sorry because you took the time, so thank you at the same time!

You know now that no, we weren’t just doing our own thing—we simply didn’t see the message. I got an alert about a reply and saw discussions about deleting posts, etc. (see the thread)

- We won’t be visiting Ouarzazate—we’ve ruled it out based on your feedback. As I mentioned, we’ll only go there for the return flight. Where did you see that we’d "linger in Ouarzazate"? If I wrote that, it was a mistake. - The flight was the same price whether we took off again from Ouarzazate, and it saves us 4 to 5 hours of driving. - The itinerary we’ve put together takes all the advice we’ve received into account.

Thanks

Thanks for all this info.

Sorry for the incomplete details—we’re doing our best between planning our trip and our intense work life... I mentioned in the other post that our initial plans were scrapped and I’d start a new thread. We’ve pushed our stay to April, for a longer duration, arriving at RAK and departing from OZZ.

I was definitely planning to rent a car when leaving Marrakech to start our road trip, but for some inexplicable reason, renting the car for 10 days costs 180 € more than renting it for 12 (yes, the exact same car). This was the case with several rental companies I checked.

That’s why I’m asking about the difficulty of driving into Marrakech. And since we’ll *have* to have a car, we were wondering whether a central location or the outskirts would be better.

Why do you say we don’t take your tips into account at all? That’s absolutely not our intention—quite the opposite, in fact. We actually skipped Merzouga based on this forum’s advice, extended our stay, and even adjusted our trip thanks to all of your suggestions. It’s possible we might’ve accidentally missed a piece of info—that’s all. Which tips didn’t we follow?

For Phil, here’s the thing—and it might sound silly—but we’d really like to do it with a local Moroccan from the region.

And FYI, the prices we were quoted went up to 500 €.

Hi there,

We found a guide who offers the trip from M'hamid to a camp (departure at 3 PM, tea, meal, camel ride, overnight stay, breakfast, and return to M'Hamid by 11 AM the next day via the sacred oasis). He quoted us a price of 380 € for April. What do you think of this rate? This might sound like a silly question, but is it common to negotiate the price for this kind of thing (we're booking from France)? It’s still a big part of our travel budget.

Thanks

Thanks. No local rental possible since we’re arriving at Marrakech Airport and flying out of Ouarzazate ;)

Thanks for the great tips! !

Hello,

We’re torn between a riad in the medina and one on the outskirts (south of Marrakech) with the advantage of peace and quiet, a big pool for the kids, but it’s far (10 km).

We’ll have a rental car. Is it easy to park near Jemaa el-Fna square, for example? Are the rates public (so we know what to expect)?

This would save us from taking taxis multiple times a day since we’ve been told it’d cost around 12 € each way. The bill could add up quickly.

Generally speaking, would you recommend staying in Marrakech itself, in the old city, or in the surrounding area? We’ll only be there for two nights with a 10-year-old girl and a 14-year-old teen who both want to explore the city but also enjoy the pool.

Thanks

I’m convinced, but I wasn’t talking about that kind of risk.

Any other advice for our trip will be much appreciated ;) thanks

Okay, I get it... But we’re planning to go to Morocco this time, not anywhere else. And if we like this introduction, we’ll go somewhere else next time.

Algeria doesn’t offer the same peace of mind for a tourist

Erg Chigaga a sandbox? 🤪 What do you mean by that? I read that it’s really well-preserved compared to Merzouga

Thanks everyone!

So, taking your comments into account, here’s what it looks like: Google Maps link I’ve removed Merzouga, so is the itinerary more realistic now?

Marrakech (the afternoon of our arrival + 1 day—we’ve already been there without the kids, so the goal is not to stay too long) – night Aït Ben Haddou Ouarzazate – night (we just want to visit the film studios) Skoura Oasis de Fint Gorges du Dadès Tinghir – night Zagora – night M’hamid – ideally a night in the desert Agdz Marrakech – night (route via Telouet)

Not all nights are accounted for, so if you have any recommendations, we’re all ears! Agdz is just mentioned to say we’ll pass through there.

Thanks! !