Thailand, Cambodia, or Vietnam?

After Thailand, it depends where you go. But for me, without hesitation, I’d go back to Cambodia. It’s not at all overrun by tourists, and the people are really friendly

Hi there,

Thailand, but too many tourists for my taste. So I’m hesitating to go back and wondering if Cambodia or Vietnam would be less crowded with tourists...

Vietnam or Cambodia (among other examples) will be just like Thailand: if you deliberately rush to touristy spots like it seems you did, you’ll reach the same hasty conclusion. In Thailand, four-fifths of the country—basically a huge chunk—isn’t touristy at all. Over 40 years, I’ve regularly traveled these places far and wide, and I can assure you many are charming and waiting for you.

Hi there,

in Cambodia. it's not at all overrun by tourists

Sure, Cambodia is a country worth recommending for a visit, but "not at all overrun by tourists"... Phnom Penh, Kep, Sihanoukville, Siem Reap—no, not even a little? Come on...

and the people are friendly

Like in pretty much any Southeast Asian country, I’d say without much risk of being wrong.

Excerpt from your website:

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Travel planner? For example, for 3 weeks in Cambodia, how much does your service cost?

Excerpt from your site:

Noirenvoyage, your expert in tailor-made travel. For personalized and unforgettable trips. Explore the hidden wonders of the world, whether close to home or on the other side of the globe. With Noirenvoyage, your guide for a trip that reflects you—immersive, close to nature, solo, or around the world. Make your dreams come true; I’ll help you overcome both practical and emotional obstacles.

Travel planner? For example, for 3 weeks in Cambodia, how much does your service cost?

Hi, I see that like me, you’ve spotted the woman who’s advertising her travel agency for free at VF’s expense. I hate that kind of behavior. Agency to avoid at all costs!

Vietnam or Cambodia (among other examples) will be like Thailand: if you knowingly rush into touristy spots like it seems you did, you’ll end up with the same hasty conclusion.

Stop sending me digs and nitpicking. I made a mistake? Fine. I didn’t rush in knowingly!!! I simply listened to someone else’s advice, not yours, and you’re jealous. That’s ridiculous! You’ve made comments about this several times—enough already, right? It’s done, over. Let’s move on. It just so happens that several of you helped and advised me. But your opinions were completely opposite and contradictory. I’ve said this elsewhere. You even started bickering and throwing barbed compliments at each other. And there I was, like an idiot in the middle, keeping score and completely lost, wondering who to believe, who to listen to. Despite your very tempting advice, you didn’t manage to convince me. And even though I hesitated a lot, I eventually let myself be persuaded by others who had convincing arguments—photos, testimonials, and travel journals to back them up. Did I choose the wrong direction? Too bad for me. Thanks for not rubbing it in even more...

In Thailand, four-fifths of the country’s surface area—a huge chunk—isn’t touristy. Over 40 years, I’ve regularly traveled these places far and wide, and I assure you, many are charming and waiting for you.

If four-fifths of Thailand are charming and waiting for me, I’ll try to find and discover them. Maybe you can shed some light on where to find them? Knowing that I don’t have your age or the intention to spend two days here, three days there, and another day somewhere else, like you suggested. I don’t like spending my time unpacking and repacking a suitcase and changing rooms and beds every 2 or 3 days. I’m looking for a place to settle in a region that’s not very touristy and explore the surrounding area within a 50 to 80 km radius, even if it means spending a night away from time to time, while keeping my room where I’ve settled. Is that clearer for you? For now, my idea is maybe a week in Bangkok/Kanchanaburi/Ayutthaya, then head to Isan, which seems to be overlooked by the crowds, and spend the rest of my stay there—about a month. Unless there are other regions without excessive tourism besides Isan. One thing’s for sure: I don’t want to revisit overly touristy places, even if they’re extraordinary.

You're attributing jealousy to me that wouldn't make any sense, so yeah, let's move on.

Kanchanaburi—a city where I've stayed many times for various reasons. Even if it's much less so than Chiang Mai, the city is touristy. But if you venture into the province, you might find what you're looking for in Sangkhlaburi, a quiet town in a beautiful setting with some Thai tourism on weekends, or in Thong Pha Phum, a pleasant town with no tourism at all and a bit of a "middle of nowhere" vibe. The two are about an hour apart by bus or minivan. Ayutthaya: even if it’s a quieter choice than Bangkok for the first day of a trip to recover from a long flight, it’s still touristy—though again, less so than Chiang Mai.

Isan: I’m thinking of the villages along Route 211 by the Mekong—several of them could serve as a base for you.

But if you prefer, I can also give you tips on Cambodia.

Many have enjoyed the provinces of Nan, Phrae, or Loei for a less touristy experience. A little statistic based on my reading of the past 12 years on VF—take it for what it's worth.

For Isan, I’ve looked into it a bit, and two routes stand out: one in the north, along the Mekong, and another in the south, with hills and Khmer temples. The locals eat very spicy food there—you’d be happy.

Issan, I’m thinking of the villages along Route 211 by the Mekong—several of them could work as a base for you. https://forumvoyage.forumactif.com/t1763-mekhong-hors-des-sentiers-battus-sur-la-route-211-de-nong-khai-a-chiang-khan-infos-utiles-pour-etapes.

Thanks for your quick reply. I checked it out. Your photos are stunning—they’re a nice change from what you usually see in travel journals. They really make me want to go see for myself! But once again, you’re suggesting a route, a list of villages to visit in stages. What I’m looking for is a small town where I can settle in, take my time, wander around, and do day trips (or two-day trips if it’s too far) and come back to my HQ in the evening. I need to get a map of the area to see how I can organize my stay and visits to the villages. Do you have a map recommendation? Thanks.

I think I read that you didn’t appreciate me sending links in PMs

That’s not quite it. I got the impression you were using VF to "divert" regulars to the other parallel forum. Back then, I was really into VF, which isn’t quite the case anymore...

But if you prefer, I can also give you info on Cambodia.

Sure, why not? I think this time you’ve better understood what I’m looking for: 1. Go where no one else goes 2. Settle somewhere for a LONG STAY and explore the area on day trips, returning to my room in the evening. And, as I mentioned, the option to stay out one or two nights occasionally while keeping my room where I’m based.

Many enjoyed the provinces of Nan, Phrae, or Loei for their less touristy vibe. A little stat based on my reading of the last 12 years on VF—take it for what it’s worth.

For Isan, I’ve looked into it a bit, and two routes stand out: one in the north, along the Mekong, and another in the south, with hills and Khmer temples. The locals eat *very* spicy food there—you’d be in heaven.

Hi Joël, and thanks so much for your quick reply! I don’t want to start bouncing all over the place again like I did last year. That’s why, since I’m leaning toward Isan, I don’t really feel like looking elsewhere and risking the same indecision I had when planning my last trip... If the food’s *that* spicy on top of it all, then it’s perfect! But yeah, Nan, Phrae, and Loei were on my list of places I wanted to visit last year. I can take a peek, but once I’ve made my choice, I’m sticking to it—no switching!

you’re asking me for an itinerary, a list of villages to visit in stages.

Originally, I put this together as a loop, but for you, think of it more as a list of possible villages—you could pick just one as your base.

I’m looking for a small town to settle into, take my time, and wander around with no particular plan

The two towns at either end of this route (Chiang Khan and Nong Khai) are bigger and busier, but the three villages in between fit your description.

and take day trips (or two-day trips if it’s too far) and return to my HQ in the evening.

To get from one village to another, there’s public transport—a little green bus that runs from Nong Khai to Pak Chom three times a day, plus a few songthaews. So, it’s best to be prepared to potentially stay overnight* if there’s nothing left to get you back to your base. You could also hire a "driver" with a car for a full or half day (round trip). In remote Thai villages, that’s usually how it works: you mention it to your accommodation, and they’ll ask a family member to take you in their personal car. As for exploring the countryside (only during daylight), in the small villages I mentioned, you’re already in the greenery just a 10-minute walk from the main street. Or you can rent a bike or motorbike—same deal, ask your host, and they’ll sort one out for you.

* Each village listed has accommodation options.

I need to get a map of this region to plan my stay and village visits. Do you have a map recommendation?

I never use maps when I’m there—I just go with the flow because I like getting lost. But to help others plan their trips on forums, for Isaan, I recommend this one: https://www.thailand-ticket.de/issan/issan-map.htm

Cambodia. Yes, why not?

I’m thinking of three spots—two of them are great for day or half-day bike or motorbike rides (scooter, etc.) on flat, easy roads or paths. Are you up for using that kind of transport? If not, on foot, would 10 km in a day be doable for you?

Hi there,

Your search for a step away from mass tourism could match the countryside of Southeast Asia as a whole, since the vast majority of tourists rarely venture off the beaten path and prefer to crowd onto beautiful beaches or famous landmarks. The ideal is to have your own transport so you can explore quite far from your accommodation each day—around 60-80 km, for example (depending on road conditions, of course, and how much your backside can handle the bumps before giving up!). That’s better than being limited to just 10-20 km around the village by bike.

Take my village, for example—it’s nothing extraordinary or even particularly special compared to the three countries you’re considering. But within a 25-30 km radius (even though it’s right next to the Vietnamese border, so the area to explore is smaller), there are plenty of great walks. You’ll pass through small, typical villages, rice fields, orchards, rubber plantations, cashew trees, durian groves, and you can even swim in a waterfall pool. Along the way, you’ll see street vendors, carts pulled by motorized plows, kids piled onto vintage motorbikes, water buffalo with their herders, and more. But you’ll never run into another tourist 😉

And that’s something you can experience almost anywhere in the Southeast Asian countryside. I think it’s much more rewarding and "authentic" (as tourists like to say!)—both culturally and in terms of the people you meet—than sticking to the main tourist spots in these countries. The downside is that almost no one speaks English, so it’s best to do some research to find accommodation where they do and to learn a few basic words and phrases beforehand for everyday life (food, directions, polite phrases, etc.). Nothing overwhelming, though! !

Hi there,

The first time I saw you in this forum, I looked up Tbong Khmum on Google Earth and figured you must be living pretty peacefully there (and probably happily too). I expected to see you chime in on this discussion, and your description of your "habitat area" perfectly captures Southeast Asian countryside in general.

we come across (...) carts pulled by a motorized tiller,

The Kubota—a multi-purpose tool for so many farmers...

For Issan, I’ve looked into it a bit, and two routes stand out: one in the north, along the Mekong, and the other in the south, with the hills and Khmer temples. The locals eat *very* spicy food there—you’d love it.

Thanks again... I’m looking into it now, but it’ll almost certainly be the North, along the Mekong. Really excited about it... I’m already buzzing with anticipation. I hadn’t planned this at all, even though I’ve got a ton of stuff to sort before my next trip to Thailand... Any updates on the rumor about the visa exemption being extended to a month?

Hello and thank you so much for your kind and interesting message!

The ideal is to be motorized so you can explore quite far from your accommodation each day—around 60-80 km, for example (depending on the state of the roads/tracks, of course, and how much your backside can handle the bumps before giving up!). That’s better than being limited to just 10-20 km around the village by bike.

Biking, and scooters even less, aren’t for me. It’ll be on foot or with a driver (I don’t feel ready to drive in Thailand).

You pass through small typical villages, rice fields, orchards, rubber plantations, cashew trees, durian groves, and you can even swim in a waterfall pool. You’ll see street vendors, carts pulled by motorized plows, kids piled four-deep on an old-school motorbike, water buffalo with their herders, etc. But you’ll never run into another tourist ;)

Beautiful description. That’s exactly what I’m looking for. You totally get it.

And you can experience this pretty much anywhere in the Southeast Asian countryside. I think it’s way more enriching and "authentic" (as tourists say!)—both culturally and in terms of encounters—than sticking to the main tourist spots in these countries.

You’re preaching to the choir ;)

The downside is that almost no one speaks English, so it’s best to research accommodations where that’s not the case and learn some basic words/phrases beforehand for daily life (food, directions, polite phrases, etc.).

Yes, that’s a bit of an issue for me, but since I’m not much of a talker, my voice translator should handle daily life, as you put it. 😏

Nothing insurmountable!

Oh, for me, it *is* insurmountable. I’ve already tried with Malayalam in Kerala, where I live for six months a year, and also in Thailand during my last trip. At my age, all the words sound the same—I mix everything up and remember nothing. After five minutes, I’ve forgotten what I learned, and I have to start over. So I gave up... But struggling to understand or make yourself understood can also lead to big laughs that bring people closer. You have to fight, use gestures, draw, show pictures, etc. And these days, voice translators are a godsend!

When it comes to the visa exemption story, we won’t be sure of anything until the very last minute.

This exemption was obviously meant to attract more tourists and bring in more money. Then they realized it was letting in a lot of bad apples—people causing trouble, scandals, and some high-profile incidents. So they decide to scrap the visa exemption, but by then the latest stats show the country’s starting to lose its tourist appeal compared to its neighbors. So, what do they do?

On a whole bunch of issues, they’ve just kept flip-flopping based on the latest news. By the time you get back, they might’ve changed their minds twice more. They really struggle to plan ahead or prepare for the future—they mostly live in the moment, and that explains a lot of things.

Okay, thanks again. All of this is really interesting and tempting—it’s exactly what I’m looking for. But is it still relevant in 2025? I stumbled across a heated discussion about Isan (Isan or Issan?) where people were arguing over a nice guy’s travel journal about Isan. The topic was the massive influx of tourists in Isan and all the consequences we’re familiar with.

The last message in that thread (which ended up being closed) left me wondering about the mentality of some people on this forum.

Anyway, I’ll look into all of this. I still need to pick THE village to settle in. Or maybe leave most of my luggage in storage at my accommodation and head out for a few more days—or even a week—somewhere else in one of the villages you mentioned. And why not a quick detour to Vientiane for a few days?

Let’s stay in touch. If you have any additional tips, they’d be more than welcome. Thanks again.

For the visa exemption story, we won’t be sure of anything until the last minute.

This exemption was obviously meant to bring in more tourists and more money. Then they realize it’s letting in a lot of bad customers who cause trouble, scandals, and some high-profile incidents. So they decide to cancel the visa exemption, but by then the latest stats show the country is starting to lose its tourist appeal compared to its neighbors. So, what do they do?

On a whole bunch of issues, they’ve just kept flip-flopping based on the latest news. By the time you come back, they might’ve changed their minds twice more. They struggle to plan ahead and prepare for the future—they mostly live in the moment, and that explains a lot.

Yeah, I get it, but we tourists need certainty to book our flight tickets ;) Personally, it’s less of a hassle for me because I’ll only decide once I’m back in India since I’m leaving from India, not France. I don’t need to plan too far in advance. On the other hand, I have to plan my stay in India and set my exit date after 90 days—that’s easy. But I also need to plan my return date to India and book my return ticket to France within another 90 days... And for that, I need to sort it out right now. I almost missed out on a great Air France deal by two days because people jumped on it, and there’s no availability left Without knowing when I’ll be back from Thailand, I can’t set my return date from India to France...

Looking back at what you wrote about Route 211, I came across the link for Route 105. It seems pretty good too and matches what I like and what I'm looking for. But there’s apparently a lot of police presence, which isn’t very pleasant... I said I didn’t want to spread myself too thin, but now’s the time to make a choice... Do you have a map reference for this route? Thanks. I mentioned Isaan because I’ve read in several places over the past year that Isaan is the least-visited region in Thailand, but if there are other areas just as quiet and picturesque, I’d be interested too. I only have one preference, one criterion: as few tourists as possible, and a pleasant, peaceful, and picturesque region to visit, no matter the district—but in the north of the country...

Side question: Why do you always say *a* guesthouse? A guesthouse is feminine, right? I noticed that last year too. *A hotel, a guesthouse...* 😏😏😏

Yeah, these things are indestructible! They're not very fast, but they can haul just about anything—from a cart piled sky-high with several tons of cassava to a traveling shop selling mattresses, wicker baskets, utensils, brooms, and everything you need for the house. Plus, they handle field and rice paddy work like a charm! !

Awesome if the voice translator is that reliable! For daily trips, even if a scooter isn’t your thing, you’ll definitely find a tuk-tuk driver around who’d be happy to have a regular customer and can take you just about anywhere. Could even be the start of a great friendship.

I stumbled quite by chance on a heated discussion about Isan where the participants got into a spat over a nice guy’s travel journal about Isan. (Isan or Issan?) It was about the large influx of tourists in Isan and all the consequences we know about.

I went and read the thread in question (not in full). The guy who started it, recounting his trip, may not have been tactful in his title by using the word "real," which could have rubbed some expats living elsewhere the wrong way. But to counter-argue by suggesting that Isan is becoming more and more crowded and so on is a huge exaggeration and, in my opinion, bad faith. Offering very few "photogenic" sites for the average foreign tourist, it’s not tomorrow that Isan will be on the banana pancake trail or featured in travel agencies’ brochures worldwide. Just take a look at their catalogs to see for yourself.

These days, what kind of independent foreign tourist goes to Isan, and to see what? Those who’ve been to Thailand before and, on a second or third trip, set aside 2 nights in their itinerary for Khao Yai National Park (which really only requires a small detour from the "Northern route") and, at a stretch, 2 more nights for Phimai and Phrasat Phanom Rung. You’ll also find some tourist traffic in Nong Khai (usually quite brief), but that’s just because it’s a crossing point to Laos. There’s the Surin Elephant Round-Up, but that’s only a few days in November, and since Thais book most of the accommodations months in advance, few foreign tourists make it there. Plus, it takes 4-5 nights to really enjoy it—a long time for many people for a non-beach stop... And you go for the elephants, not for Isan. Beyond that kind of tourism and those places? A bit of Thai tourism, mostly on weekends, in the spots mentioned above, plus places like Chiang Khan, Khong Jiam, and a few others, not to mention some national parks. And travelers like me, very few in number, who don’t hesitate to spend time there to get lost.

In conclusion, don’t pay attention to the bitter expats who responded in the thread you’re referring to. Even in 2025, you’ll be far from "crowds"* on 99% of Isan’s territory. * If the term even applies to Isan.

Isan or Issan? Since the transcription of Thai characters into Latin isn’t an exact science, it’s up to you. You’ll sometimes see it written as I’san. Have you ever seen "Chiang Mai" spelled the same way everywhere on-site?

After rereading what you wrote about Route 211, I found the link about Route 105. It looks pretty good too and seems to match what I like and what I’m looking for.

Oh yeah, Route 105 is great too and would fit your criteria just as well. Plus, it’s a similar setup: lost villages by a river forming a border, so it’s interesting (in Southeast Asia, there’s always something interesting to see on border rivers...). I didn’t mention it because you seemed set on Isan. If Route 211 is a bit out of the way and requires a long detour, Route 105 could easily be a much nicer alternative to the direct (but not very scenic) route from Sukhothai to Chiang Mai that many travelers take to/from the North. But no, hardly anyone goes there—too bad for them.

But apparently, there’s a lot of police presence, which isn’t very pleasant...

No, the police are only there for road checks (which, given the length of the road, aren’t that many) and won’t bother you unless you look Karen, as they’re looking for illegal immigrants (at one point, the road runs alongside the Mae La refugee camp for 3 km). Other than that, there’s no police presence anywhere.

Do you have a map reference for this road? Thanks.

Nothing except this one: https://www.thailand-ticket.de/Chiang-Mai-Hotel-Buchen/north-thailand-map.htm Just be careful—regarding the road in question, I’ve never seen an accurate map (issues with village names or their locations, but the cities of Mae Sot and Mae Sariang are in the right places). Trust the directions I gave instead.

Hello,

in Cambodia. it's not at all overrun by tourists

Sure, Cambodia is a country worth visiting, but "not at all overrun by tourists"... Phnom Penh, Kep, Sihanoukville, Siem Reap—really, not even those? Come on... I agree that these cities are more touristy, but there’s so much more to see!

and the people are nice

Like in all Southeast Asian countries, I’d say without much risk of being wrong. I base my answer on my own experience. I don’t doubt you’ve had a similar experience across all of Southeast Asia, but that wasn’t the case for me.

Excerpt from your site:

Noirenvoyage, your expert in tailor-made travel. For personalized and unforgettable trips. Explore the hidden wonders of the world, whether close to home or on the other side of the globe. With Noirenvoyage, your guide for a trip that reflects you—immersive, close to nature, solo, or around the world. Make your dreams a reality; I help you overcome both practical and emotional obstacles.

Travel planner? For example, for 3 weeks in Cambodia, how much does your service cost?

I’m not a travel planner. I could become one, but I’m not yet. That said, I can help people who want to build their own travel plans.

Excerpt from your site:

Noirenvoyage, your expert in tailor-made travel. For personalized and unforgettable trips. Explore the world’s hidden wonders, whether close to home or on the other side of the globe. With Noirenvoyage, your guide for a trip that reflects you—immersive, close to nature, solo, or around the world. Make your dreams come true; I help you overcome both practical and emotional obstacles.

Travel planner? For example, for 3 weeks in Cambodia, how much does your service cost?

Hi, I see that like me, you’ve spotted the woman advertising her travel agency for free at VF’s expense. I hate that kind of behavior. Agency to avoid at all costs! !

Why so much hate? For your information, I don’t yet have a travel agency. It’s a possibility, but not a reality. I’m trying to build a project around travel, but my blog is mainly a travel journal with stories and recommendations. In my reply, I didn’t even mention it, and I recommended Cambodia because I’ve just returned from 6 months in Southeast Asia, where I visited the countries you’re asking about. Personally, I preferred Cambodia. I haven’t published my travel journals yet because I’m taking the time to process the experiences. And if it’s worth anything to you, if you’re looking for less touristy spots in Cambodia, the Ratanakiri region is really authentic with beautiful waterfalls. Further south, instead of Kep, I’d go to Kampot—you can visit an interesting project on Kampot pepper. And then there are the islands Koh Rong and Koh Rong Sanloem if you like the sea. That’s it!

If you decide on Vietnam, the island of Phu Quoc has some interesting things to see. Da Lat, the city of flowers, will enchant you if you love flowers. And in the north, Ha Giang offers an immersion in nature and the mountains.

If my message bothers you, I’m truly sorry. Let me know, and I’ll make sure not to respond to your future questions.

Best regards,

At worst, for 2000 baht, you can extend your stay by a month on the spot.

At worst, for 2,000 baht, you can extend your stay by a month once you're there.

Yeah, I know, but I can’t do that from my hotel room in some remote village in the middle of nowhere in Isaan, and all that paperwork and admin stuff really gets on my nerves.

At worst, for 2000 baht, you can get a one-month stay extension on the spot.

I think it's still 1900 baht, which is the equivalent of $58. The Laotian VOA, on the other hand, only costs $40, and a quick trip to Vientiane would allow you to return to Thailand with a new Visa Exemption (after filling out a new TDAC). (Just to remind you, quote from Marien33 yesterday:

And why not also a short trip to Vientiane for a few days?

). But all of this only applies if route 211 is chosen as the destination. If it's route 105, the only reasonably possible option would be the extension. In that case, the nearest Immigration offices are in Tak and Chiang Mai (I'm surprised there isn't one at the major Mae Sot border crossing).

Sorry, I rounded up because I'm loaded.

Hi there,

Issan, I’m thinking of the villages along Route 211 by the Mekong—several of them could work as a base for you.

Route 105 is also great and would fit your plans just as well. Plus, it’s a similar setup: remote villages by a river that forms a border, so it’s interesting (in Southeast Asia, there’s always something fascinating to see on border rivers...). I didn’t mention it because you seemed set on Issan. If Route 211 is a bit out of the way and requires a long detour, Route 105 could easily be an alternative.

I haven’t revisited my travel plans yet, but I’ll get back to them soon. Personally, I think I’ll go for the villages along Route 211...

I was scammed online and lost nearly 22 000 €... money I’d been saving penny by penny for my retirement in case things got tough... So my future—and my travels—will have to adjust to this loss. Do you think accommodation will be cheaper on Route 211 or Route 105?

I’m really sorry to hear that—especially since it’s such a large sum. I assume you’ve already taken care of the steps for filing a complaint, contacting your bank, and reaching out to victim support groups.

For accommodation, local transport, and food, prices and options are pretty similar on Routes 105 and 211. In both cases, the budget needed will be lower than on the tourist highway.

Accommodation, local transport, and food—prices and options are similar on routes 105 and 211, and in both cases, the budget needed will be lower than on the tourist highway.

That’s not my main reason for choosing the countryside, you know, but I kinda suspected it and it’ll work out great for me.

Well, here we go—despite what some people tell me about not setting off on another long trip to India/Thailand, I’ve booked my flight ticket (one way) for 143 € and 31,000 miles, and my return (one way) for 540 € (with one or two interesting options). That’s a total of 693 €. I just did a round-trip simulation for the same dates and times: 995 €. From the airport in my city to the Indian airport, both ways. Way cheaper than all the other airlines, which—since they only fly from and to Paris—would force me to take either a flight or a train from my city to Roissy, plus a night in an airport hotel. Living far from Paris really penalizes you. 😢

I’m planning five weeks in Thailand from January 19 to February 22, between two stays in India. I still don’t know how to approach my stay in Thailand. I don’t feel like lingering in Bangkok this time, even though I really loved the capital during my last trip. Maybe arrive in Chiang Mai instead of Bangkok? I also don’t want to spend my time constantly unpacking and repacking a suitcase, hopping from one place to another every 3 to 4 or 5 days. I’ve got Songsam’s tips in mind for the villages along Route 211 or Route 105. The first option (which appeals to me more) seems to offer either mediocre or uncomfortable accommodations or ones way over my budget. The second option is interesting, especially if I settle in for a while at:

Tha Song Yang, at the Wongtawan Resort, 800 Bahts with a "help yourself" breakfast included.

And go back there every night since our friend says the villages aren’t too far apart and there’s no decent accommodation in the other villages along that route 🤔. (I don’t see myself, like him, sleeping on a mat on the floor in the friendly shopkeeper’s store.) Plus, five weeks in Tha Song Yang might end up feeling really long and boring... Another option is NAN, which we’d already talked about last year—much more "easygoing" and seemed to fit me perfectly. But yet another place supposedly off the beaten path that, thanks to being praised, recommended, and hyped as amazing and off the beaten path by so many travelers, agencies, and blogs, risks no longer being that at all. I had a really bad experience with that kind of thing, which I’ll soon write about in my travel journal (if I have the energy to keep going, since I’m pretty tired and busy right now). Another possibility is going back to my accommodation in Chiang Rai (out in the countryside, in a tiny village about 20 km from the city). The welcome was incredibly friendly, comfortable, and peaceful. Big room, large covered wooden terrace where it’d be great to read and daydream while listening to the birds 😊. But I have no idea what the surrounding countryside and villages are like. Five weeks is a long time! I’m open to any suggestions. Thanks!

Hi,

I’m open to any suggestions... Thanks

Check out Mae Salong. +pm

Hi there,

It’s true that Cambodia has fewer tourist-crowded spots than Thailand (first) and Vietnam (second). But the must-see places like Angkor, Siem Reap, and Battambang are just as busy... In Vietnam, unfortunately, more and more places are getting overvisited, but there are still plenty of preserved spots in the North, the Southwest, and the southern tip. For me, in Thailand, modernity has reached every province—roads, accommodations—though places like Isaan have fewer tourists in a modern setting. I really enjoyed Thailand the month they reopened the country after Covid. Happy travels to the original poster!

Hello,

I’m open to any suggestions... Thanks

Check out Mae Salong. +pm

Hi Thierry, Thanks... I’m looking into it... I’m thinking of staying several weeks where I stayed last year in the countryside about twenty km from Chiang Rai and exploring the area, including Tha Ton and Mae Salong.

Hi, As I mentioned in another thread, I had some personal issues that kept me away from VF and even my travel plans. I’m slowly getting back on track and diving back into preparing for my next trip, which I’m planning for 5 weeks from January 19 to February 22. Like I said in my previous post, I’ll be spending a long stay in Chiang Rai at the guesthouse where I stayed last year. I need to unwind and enjoy the tranquility and serenity of the countryside. But it would be a shame to limit myself to just that. So I’m thinking of spending eight days in Bangkok - Kanchanaburi - Ayutthaya. Then I might head back up to Loei and then Chiang Rai...

Hi Thierry, I’m kinda back around... Sorry if I upset you—I was really going through a rough patch... I won’t bore you with my life story... If you’re still mad, my bad... If you’re not too upset, I’d love to pick up our DM convo about my trip. If you’re up for it, of course... See you soon, maybe, Jean Marie

Kanchanaburi is an excellent choice for you. The city is particularly long and stretched out. As a walker, you’ll love it. You can even continue walking along the railway tracks. 🙂

Ayutthaya is a pretty comprehensive site: https://www.thailande-online.com/tourisme-en-thailande/centre/ayutthaya/

A bit more focused on ruins, but still really good: https://www.ayutthaya-history.com/Temples_Ruins_List_C1.html

Kanchanaburi, excellent choice for you. The town is particularly long and stretched out. As a walker, you’ll love it. You can even continue walking along the railway track. 🙂

Ayutthaya, a pretty comprehensive site: https://www.thailande-online.com/tourisme-en-thailande/centre/ayutthaya/

A bit more focused on ruins, but still really good: https://www.ayutthaya-history.com/Temples_Ruins_List_C1.html

Hi Joël, Thanks for replying to my message. Actually, I’m gonna skip Ayutthaya. I’ve had my fill of temples, crowds, and archaeology last year. I much prefer small towns, not too busy, and nature. I had the best time during the last part of my trip in Chiang Rai last year. Instead of spending 21 days in Chiang Mai and 9 days in Chiang Rai, I should’ve done the opposite… I’m gonna make a detour to Nan instead and spend a week there since it’s on the way before heading back to Chiang Rai.

I need to check what’s the most interesting, enjoyable, and comfortable way to get to Nan from Kanchanaburi. Train or bus?

January 19: Kochi -> Bangkok January 19–21: BANGKOK – 2 days, 3 nights January 22: Bangkok -> Kanchanaburi January 22–25: KANCHANABURI – 4 days, 4 nights January 26: Kanchanaburi -> Nan January 26 – February 1: NAN – 7 days, 7 nights February 2: Nan -> Chiang Rai by train or bus? February 2–22: CHIANG RAI – 21 days, 21 nights (with trips to Tha Ton and Mae Salong, based on Songsam’s recommendations) February 23: Chiang Rai -> Bangkok February 23–24: BANGKOK – 2 days, 2 nights February 25: Bangkok -> Kochi

Hi Thierry, I just found this message I’d kept somewhere in the back of my mind:

Phrae is a town with a pleasant center, ideal for a stopover of one or two nights—maybe even three at a push—but five? Good heavens! In that same area, I’d plan for five nights in Nan instead. Nan: a quiet provincial capital with lots of charm, some beautifully renowned temples, little car traffic, respected bike lanes (and bikes loaned out by the municipality*), very little tourism (except for Thai visitors on weekends, but it stays manageable), accommodations for every budget, and a really lovely province to explore on day trips (preferably by car or scooter since public transport is limited). You can even head up to Thung Chang for a few days to wander around the charming villages nearby. I’ve been to Nan three times—plus once to Thung Chang—each time for at least five nights, and I never get tired of it. If I haven’t convinced you to at least consider it by now, my name isn’t 2-3. * Also available through AirAsia at the airport.

So I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be a better idea to spend two weeks in Nan and two weeks in Chiang Rai, instead of one and three. It seems like Nan has incredible potential for visits and walks (especially on foot) off the beaten path. But since I upset you and you’re not talking to me anymore, I don’t know if you’ll even reply... Could we bury the hatchet, maybe?

Hi Joël, Following your example, I think it’d be a good idea to head to Bangkok after Kanchanaburi and take a domestic flight from Bangkok to Nan? Or should I skip Kanchanaburi again and head straight to Nan when I arrive in Bangkok?

We’re not gonna start with the formal ‘vous,’ are we?

Aren’t we gonna start using *vous* now, are we?

It seems that in French, when two people travel together, we say *vous* ;)

We’re not going to start using formal ‘vous,’ are we?

I think in French, when two people travel together, we say ‘vous’ 😉

Silly me!

So, regarding your question, I’ve always tried to rationalize my routes, especially since we mostly took the bus at first.

On AirAsia, we pretty much only booked BKK/CM or CR flights and BKK/Krabi.

So, if I’d done CR, I would’ve added Nan and Phrae to keep the area manageable.

I’d have included Kanchanaburi in a circuit around Bangkok’s provinces or as part of a southern Thailand route, for example. In that area, to be thorough, you’d also want to do Kancha/Tong Pha Phum/Sangkhlaburi.

That said, from BKK, buses go to these destinations without issue, so I don’t have any strong arguments against doing BKK/Kancha/CR/Nan.

How silly of me!

On AirAsia, we’ve pretty much only booked BKK/CM or CR flights and BKK/Krabi. So, if I’d gone with CR, I’d have added Nan and Phrae to explore a not-too-large area...

Am I silly too? 😉 Took me a while to figure out CR and CM.

I’d have included it in a circuit around Bangkok’s provinces or a southern Thailand loop, for example.

I thought I’d been clear last year: circuits aren’t (no longer) my thing. I prefer picking two (or three) spots that appeal to me and settling in to explore the surrounding area... But you must’ve forgotten. I forget a lot of what people tell me too... 😉

It’s decided—here’s the plan:

First night in Bangkok to recover from the trip, then a flight to Nan, where I’ll stay for 13 days.

I found/reserved a really lovely, super-comfy modern bungalow set in a big garden with all sorts of amenities for 10,400 THB, with a nice long-stay discount I didn’t even have to ask for...

Then 3 weeks in Chiang Rai, with little getaways of one, two, or three days, depending, including 1 or 2 overnight stays.

Hello,

I’m open to any suggestions... Thanks

Check out Mae Salong. +pm

I can’t find that PM on my account... No message from Songsam on those dates... You also mentioned another village... I’ve forgotten the name... I’ll have to argue with the driver to make sure he doesn’t drive for hours on the Highway before taking the small road(s) to get me to these places. Plus, I’d like to spend two or three days in the area, and I can’t/won’t ask him to stay with me for several days. And I remember the desert-like vibe of Mae Salong last year. All the restaurants were closed. I had to settle for eating whatever in the only one that was open. So if it’s the same for accommodation...

The other village was supposed to be Tha Ton. The PM was probably the link to the guide I wrote about the two villages in the other forum. It seems that some information there has become outdated: there are no longer regular songthaews connecting the two villages. Someone updated that guide on January 17th of this year after a very recent trip, so I’ll let you look it up. I’m surprised you’re considering going back to Mae Salong if your first attempt left you unpleasantly surprised (everything closed). Maybe it was too quick (just a few hours, if I understood correctly)? For a curious traveler who enjoys day hikes in the countryside toward villages*, Mae Salong as a base deserves *at least* 3 nights, or even longer for you.

*The first ones are less than a 45-minute walk away.