We’re planning our trip for October 2017!! (Yes, it’s still far off—but planning it is already like a vacation.) We’re interested in the Ban Gioc Waterfalls, but I can’t quite make up my mind about them. Will there still be water in October? Is this stop worth it? (Even if there’s no water?) Thanks for your replies! Happy travels to everyone, Eric
Ban Gioc Waterfalls (Vietnam)
by Ericat
Translated into English.
Original post
Hello,
We’re planning our trip for October 2017!! (Yes, it’s still far off—but planning it is already like a vacation.) We’re interested in the Ban Gioc Waterfalls, but I can’t quite make up my mind about them. Will there still be water in October? Is this stop worth it? (Even if there’s no water?) Thanks for your replies! Happy travels to everyone, Eric
We’re planning our trip for October 2017!! (Yes, it’s still far off—but planning it is already like a vacation.) We’re interested in the Ban Gioc Waterfalls, but I can’t quite make up my mind about them. Will there still be water in October? Is this stop worth it? (Even if there’s no water?) Thanks for your replies! Happy travels to everyone, Eric
Hi Eric,
It's still the high-water season, so the falls are pretty impressive. The sight of Vietnamese vendors selling cigarettes to the Chinese on the other side from rafts is quite amusing, and for a low price, take a raft to get up close. On the road from Cao Bang, there are very large *noria* (you have to keep an eye out). You’ll pass through the Nung region, where they forge scrap metal, and in some blacksmith villages, they offer homestays. Beautiful landscapes, and along the way—Thong Thué is interesting: market days are on the 2nd, 7th, 12th, 17th, 22nd, and 28th of the lunar month.
Happy planning!
Happy planning!
Hi,
Hi,
We’re interested in the Ban Gioc waterfalls, but I can’t make up my mind about them. Will there still be water in October? Is this stop worth it? (Even without water?)
Eric
I biked to Ban Gioc Waterfalls in February 2013 (so during the low-water season), and it’s honestly worth the trip.
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/les-chutes-deau-de-ban-gioc-dam-thuy.html
A resort hotel has apparently been built on the Vietnamese side at the entrance to the waterfalls.
Best, Quynh
Hi,
We’re interested in the Ban Gioc waterfalls, but I can’t make up my mind about them. Will there still be water in October? Is this stop worth it? (Even without water?)
Eric
I biked to Ban Gioc Waterfalls in February 2013 (so during the low-water season), and it’s honestly worth the trip.
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/les-chutes-deau-de-ban-gioc-dam-thuy.html
A resort hotel has apparently been built on the Vietnamese side at the entrance to the waterfalls.
Best, Quynh
Vu Do Quynh (Hanoi, Vietnam)
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/
Hi Jean Pierre,
Thanks for the info about this Thong Thué market. Unfortunately, I can’t locate it on my maps. Could you give me more details, please? I’d already spotted the one in Trung Khanh but not the one you mentioned. If not, Miss "know-it-all" will send me the directions!! Thanks in advance. Have a great day, Eric
Thanks for the info about this Thong Thué market. Unfortunately, I can’t locate it on my maps. Could you give me more details, please? I’d already spotted the one in Trung Khanh but not the one you mentioned. If not, Miss "know-it-all" will send me the directions!! Thanks in advance. Have a great day, Eric
HENON Eric
Actually, after checking, the village is marked as Thong Huê. Coming from Cao Bang, it’s smaller than Trùng Khành—I’d say about fifteen kilometers, give or take. At that point, Route 206 crosses a river (gorgeous view), and the market is on the right, inside the village. What I also love are the house facades.
Trùng Khanh also has a fantastic market, much larger. I didn’t note the dates, but since it’s a district, it’s probably on Sundays.
I often stop in Thong Hué because it’s two days after the Bao Lac market (5th, 10th, etc.) and the day after the Hung Dao market (6th, 11th, etc.). It makes for some really nice stops... really nice. Happy researching,
Trùng Khanh also has a fantastic market, much larger. I didn’t note the dates, but since it’s a district, it’s probably on Sundays.
I often stop in Thong Hué because it’s two days after the Bao Lac market (5th, 10th, etc.) and the day after the Hung Dao market (6th, 11th, etc.). It makes for some really nice stops... really nice. Happy researching,
There’s always water, and the road to get there is stunning. Here’s what you can do:
Day 1: Hanoi to Ba Be Lake (overnight in a guesthouse in Pac Noi) Day 2: Beautiful boat ride on the lake + Nang River (tunnel + Dau Dang waterfalls) Day 3: Ba Be to Cao Bang Day 4: Ngom Ngao waterfalls and amazing cave Day 5: Cao Bang back to Hanoi
Day 1: Hanoi to Ba Be Lake (overnight in a guesthouse in Pac Noi) Day 2: Beautiful boat ride on the lake + Nang River (tunnel + Dau Dang waterfalls) Day 3: Ba Be to Cao Bang Day 4: Ngom Ngao waterfalls and amazing cave Day 5: Cao Bang back to Hanoi
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Hello,
It's worth going even if the flow isn't strong because the road there offers beautiful landscapes reminiscent of the terrestrial Halong Bay near Ninh Binh. When you arrive, you need to buy an entrance ticket before walking the path that leads to it. On one side, Vietnam, and on the opposite bank with cliffs: China is just 50 meters away.
On the way back, you can stop at some caves that local tourists visit. Then take a different route back to Cao Bang, a drivable track passing through the karst peaks. (If Larsay is reading this, he can provide more details about this route he mapped out for me.)
Safe travels, Jean
It's worth going even if the flow isn't strong because the road there offers beautiful landscapes reminiscent of the terrestrial Halong Bay near Ninh Binh. When you arrive, you need to buy an entrance ticket before walking the path that leads to it. On one side, Vietnam, and on the opposite bank with cliffs: China is just 50 meters away.
On the way back, you can stop at some caves that local tourists visit. Then take a different route back to Cao Bang, a drivable track passing through the karst peaks. (If Larsay is reading this, he can provide more details about this route he mapped out for me.)
Safe travels, Jean
Actually, the border runs right through the middle of the waterfalls and the river, so half is in Vietnam and half in China.
You can get there via Route 206 Cao Bang-Quang Uyen-Trung Khanh-Ban Gioc and return via Route 207 Bang Ca (that’s where the infamous "Camp No 1" was—a death camp for French officers imprisoned in Cao Bang in October 1950 and at Dien Bien in May 1954)—Dong Deng (Ha Lang)-Quang Uyen-CB
You can get there via Route 206 Cao Bang-Quang Uyen-Trung Khanh-Ban Gioc and return via Route 207 Bang Ca (that’s where the infamous "Camp No 1" was—a death camp for French officers imprisoned in Cao Bang in October 1950 and at Dien Bien in May 1954)—Dong Deng (Ha Lang)-Quang Uyen-CB
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
There you go!
And it’s on the list provided a few months ago ;)
goo.gl/maps/4F1eZ3uTjoH2
For Jean Pierre: After checking (and correcting)... it turns out there are two Trùng Khánh. The one in Rò tẩu (Trùng Khánh) is near Cao Bằng - Lunar Days 1 and 6. The second one is near Bảo Lạc, Trùng Khánh, Bản Giốc - Lunar Days 5 and 10.
For Jean Pierre: After checking (and correcting)... it turns out there are two Trùng Khánh. The one in Rò tẩu (Trùng Khánh) is near Cao Bằng - Lunar Days 1 and 6. The second one is near Bảo Lạc, Trùng Khánh, Bản Giốc - Lunar Days 5 and 10.
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
I passed through Trung Khanh (Ban Gioc) 8 or 9 years ago, and you just reminded me how important and interesting the market was. Looks like I’ll have to go back and check it out again. Especially since in Thong Hue, it’s mostly the houses I really like.
That’ll mean staying with the blacksmiths.
Thanks, Asia, for the details.
Going to Ban Gioc is always interesting, but if you can choose, aren’t they more stunning after September? Before, you’d drop your pants and dive in to cross into China... We’d go a little past the middle and then rush back... Now you can rent a raft and float near the falls with the Chinese rafts.
Going to Ban Gioc is always interesting, but if you can choose, aren’t they more stunning after September? Before, you’d drop your pants and dive in to cross into China... We’d go a little past the middle and then rush back... Now you can rent a raft and float near the falls with the Chinese rafts.
Hello, good evening Jean Pierre
The falls didn’t leave me with an unforgettable memory.... I only saw a trickle of water (okay, I’m exaggerating a little😉)—you really have to pick the right moment, and I prefer the Vietnamese side, the small third that I find "romantic" (that’s my soft side talking) over the Chinese side. As for the rafts, it’s hardly an epic adventure—I would’ve found it more fun to jump in and rush back..😏. But the blacksmith villages and the markets? Oh YES, I’m a huge fan!
The falls didn’t leave me with an unforgettable memory.... I only saw a trickle of water (okay, I’m exaggerating a little😉)—you really have to pick the right moment, and I prefer the Vietnamese side, the small third that I find "romantic" (that’s my soft side talking) over the Chinese side. As for the rafts, it’s hardly an epic adventure—I would’ve found it more fun to jump in and rush back..😏. But the blacksmith villages and the markets? Oh YES, I’m a huge fan!
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Hi Jean Pierre,
Thanks for the details. It’s definitely tempting to do these 3 markets in 3 days and maybe combine it with Trung Khanh.
Looking forward to reading more of your great tips.
Eric
Miss Trouve Tout reminded me, as I expected... but she did provide the details 😏
Miss Trouve Tout reminded me, as I expected... but she did provide the details 😏
HENON Eric
Hi Miss Know-It-All,
Thanks for the details—it’s hard for me to sort out these markets. I’ll have to ask for a lesson because near Bao Lac, Trung Khanh market, Ban Gioc!!!! I don’t place Bao Lac near Ban Gioc!!! I’ll dig out my old 1950 military map and hope the names haven’t changed!!! Have a great day, and thanks again! Eric
Thanks for the details—it’s hard for me to sort out these markets. I’ll have to ask for a lesson because near Bao Lac, Trung Khanh market, Ban Gioc!!!! I don’t place Bao Lac near Ban Gioc!!! I’ll dig out my old 1950 military map and hope the names haven’t changed!!! Have a great day, and thanks again! Eric
HENON Eric
No need to dig through your old maps—I didn’t explain myself well.
Here’s the route:
https://goo.gl/maps/nNQrS8RALX72
The first small market in Trùng Khánh, now called Po Tau, is at the gates of Cao Bằng. Market days: 1st and 6th day of the lunar month. The second Trùng Khánh is between Cao Bằng and Ban Gioc. Market days: 5th and 10th day of the lunar month, same as Bao Lạc, which is where the confusion comes from.
The first small market in Trùng Khánh, now called Po Tau, is at the gates of Cao Bằng. Market days: 1st and 6th day of the lunar month. The second Trùng Khánh is between Cao Bằng and Ban Gioc. Market days: 5th and 10th day of the lunar month, same as Bao Lạc, which is where the confusion comes from.
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Hello,
We went there in May 2014. The water level was quite low. We still enjoyed the place and the road leading to it, with a stop at the fascinating Nguom Ngao caves. Check out our blog here for details and photos.
Have a great day, Michèle

We went there in May 2014. The water level was quite low. We still enjoyed the place and the road leading to it, with a stop at the fascinating Nguom Ngao caves. Check out our blog here for details and photos.
Have a great day, Michèle

Michèle
http://mjm-nosvoyages.blogspot.fr/ Ethopie 2020-Birmanie 2017-New York 2015-Sicile 2015-Ouest américain 2015/16/17/18/19 - Madrid/Barcelone - Cinq Terre 2017-Prague 2018-Venise 2019
http://surlarouteasiatique.blogspot.fr/ 2014 : périple de 9 mois Cambodge, Laos, Vietnam et ouest Américain
Personally, I don’t think Ban Gioc Waterfalls are worth it. The road is too long and difficult. The photos make them look amazing, but in reality, I was disappointed. Northern Vietnam has plenty of other more beautiful spots.
Hi Ericat;
We’re planning our trip for July 17.
There are local buses from Hanoi to Cao Bang (My Dinh station – My Dinh bus station). But do you know how to get to the waterfall from there? Can we contact a travel agency, or is it easy to do on our own? If anyone could shed some light, that’d be great!
THANKS
Hi Ericat;
We’re planning our trip for July 17th.
There are local buses from Hanoi to Cao Bang (My Dinh bus station—link My Dinh bus station). But do you know how to get from there to the waterfall? Can we contact a travel agency, or is it easy to do on our own? If anyone could shed some light, that’d be great!
Thanks!
From Cao Bang bus station, there’s a microbus connection (15 seats, usually) to Trùng Khanh, the district capital (about 50 km away), and maybe even directly to Dam Thuy village, where you can find guesthouses a 15-minute walk from the waterfall site. Otherwise, from Trung Khanh, there’s usually a minibus service (12 seats) to Ban Gioc Waterfalls that cost around 20,000–25,000 VND per person in 2013.
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/de-quang-uyen-trung-khanh-et-dam-thuy.html
You could also take a taxi or motorbike taxis (about 25 km). http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/les-chutes-deau-de-ban-gioc-dam-thuy.html
In early 2013, there were roadworks between Trung Khanh and Ban Gioc. They should be finished by now.
Best, Quynh
From Cao Bang bus station, there’s a microbus connection (15 seats, usually) to Trùng Khanh, the district capital (about 50 km away), and maybe even directly to Dam Thuy village, where you can find guesthouses a 15-minute walk from the waterfall site. Otherwise, from Trung Khanh, there’s usually a minibus service (12 seats) to Ban Gioc Waterfalls that cost around 20,000–25,000 VND per person in 2013.
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/de-quang-uyen-trung-khanh-et-dam-thuy.html
You could also take a taxi or motorbike taxis (about 25 km). http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/les-chutes-deau-de-ban-gioc-dam-thuy.html
In early 2013, there were roadworks between Trung Khanh and Ban Gioc. They should be finished by now.
Best, Quynh
Vu Do Quynh (Hanoi, Vietnam)
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/
This is the best solution. I don’t know of any agencies in Cao Bang, but it shouldn’t be too difficult to find one on the main street before or after the bridge. Otherwise, ask at your hotel (the Huong Sen is great).
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Hi there,
Just to let you know, we were in Cao Bằng in March 2016 to visit the waterfalls, and for the first time in Vietnam, we had a lot of trouble finding an agency or anything similar. After a day of searching, we asked the reception at the old, big hotel in the center at the corner of the bridge. The young receptionist had a friend with a car... and the next day, he took us there. To communicate, we went through the young woman by phone! It was really nice, and the next day, he drove us to Ho Chi Minh Cave.
With a bit of perseverance, you’ll get there! And it’s worth it.
Have a great trip,
Andre69
Hi there,
On the road from Hanoi to Cao Bang—the old RC4 or "Bloody Road," which became a dam in 1950—you really need to be a history buff to appreciate it. There are still some beautiful landscapes, though! Around Cao Bang, there are also markets if you head a little north toward China: Po Tau, Tra Linh, Trung Khanh, etc. Otherwise, there’s Ba Bể Lake to the west/southwest, 126 km away (about 3h20 by road). You can stay with locals, take a boat ride on the lake, explore caves, see a small waterfall, and go hiking. Visitors usually love this stop—it all depends on how much time you have. Happy planning! Eric
On the road from Hanoi to Cao Bang—the old RC4 or "Bloody Road," which became a dam in 1950—you really need to be a history buff to appreciate it. There are still some beautiful landscapes, though! Around Cao Bang, there are also markets if you head a little north toward China: Po Tau, Tra Linh, Trung Khanh, etc. Otherwise, there’s Ba Bể Lake to the west/southwest, 126 km away (about 3h20 by road). You can stay with locals, take a boat ride on the lake, explore caves, see a small waterfall, and go hiking. Visitors usually love this stop—it all depends on how much time you have. Happy planning! Eric
HENON Eric
Highly recommended, it's stunning!
Day 1: Hanoi-BABE (Tay village of Pac Ngoi - Mr. DUY THO's homestay) Day 2: Boat trip on Nang Lake and River - Dau Dang Cave and Waterfall; a really beautiful day!) Day 3: Pac Ngoi-Cho Ra-Cao Bang Day 4: Ban Gioc Waterfalls Day 5: Pac Ngoi-Halong OR you can continue to Bao Lac, Meo Vac, Dong Van, and Ha Giang
Day 1: Hanoi-BABE (Tay village of Pac Ngoi - Mr. DUY THO's homestay) Day 2: Boat trip on Nang Lake and River - Dau Dang Cave and Waterfall; a really beautiful day!) Day 3: Pac Ngoi-Cho Ra-Cao Bang Day 4: Ban Gioc Waterfalls Day 5: Pac Ngoi-Halong OR you can continue to Bao Lac, Meo Vac, Dong Van, and Ha Giang
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Hello,
On the road to Ban Gioc, 36 km from Cao Bang, there’s a Nung village, the blacksmith village of Phuc Sen.
It’s a very old village, with around 400 families who almost all have their own forge.
The Nungs are one of Vietnam’s 54 ethnic minorities, and the people of Phuc Sen have kept their traditional clothing and ancestral customs.
Ask around in Cao Bang—I think there’s a guesthouse in the village. When I passed through, it was in the works... they’d installed the bathrooms, BUT they were still waiting for the plumbing😉.
https://goo.gl/maps/AdGYjUtLFFM2 http://www.vietnamtourism.com/en/index.php/about/items/1763
https://goo.gl/maps/AdGYjUtLFFM2 http://www.vietnamtourism.com/en/index.php/about/items/1763
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Good to know!
I’ve always had an issue with the 54 minorities. The thing is, this number includes the Khin, who are actually the Viet—the majority of the population. What’s more, the excellent little booklet *Ethnic Minorities in Vietnam*, published by The Gioi, lists 53, not 54.
I’ve always had an issue with the 54 minorities. The thing is, this number includes the Khin, who are actually the Viet—the majority of the population. What’s more, the excellent little booklet *Ethnic Minorities in Vietnam*, published by The Gioi, lists 53, not 54.
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Hello,
For me, There are indeed 54 ethnic groups, including the Kinh, with 53 being minorities. The Kinh struggle to accept this classification among the 54 ethnic groups.
The Kinh ethnic group, the official name, represents the majority of the population and partly originates, like other ethnic groups, from migrations—Chinese in this case, but much older (258 years before our era). Vietnam was populated as early as the Neolithic period by populations of Indonesian and Malay origin, ancestors of the highland populations known as Moï or Muong. During the Bronze Age, Chinese populations arrived from the North and blended with those already settled there to form the Viet-Kinh people.
In the revised and corrected 2010 edition, it is well referenced in the list of ethnic groups on page 277. The Kinh ethnic group is classified under the Austro-Asiatic language family—Viet-Muong group on page 12. However, no chapter is dedicated to them, though the introduction mentions them several times.
Nguyen Van Huy, project leader of the Ethnology Museum, and his team of researchers in *Mosaïque culturel des ethnies du Vietnam* also classify the Kinh as one of the 54 ethnic groups, without dedicating a chapter to them either.
The Kinh, also known as the Viet, speak Vietnamese, a language belonging to the Austro-Asiatic family. Professor Bui Xuan Dinh from the Vietnam Institute of Social Sciences states:
"The Kinh, or the Viet, are part of the Lac Viet group, which belongs to the larger Bach Viet bloc, composed of several ethnic groups. Each group has its own territory. The ancestors of the Kinh were at the origin of various cultures: Phung Nguyên, Go Mun, Dong Dau, and Dong Son. They primarily practiced flooded rice cultivation and crafts, as evidenced by the Dong Son bronze drums." Initially, the Kinh mainly lived in the northern regions and the deltas of the North. Then, starting in the 11th century, they began a gradual expansion, first toward the Center and then the South, always in search of new land to clear. By the early 20th century, when the French began establishing large urban centers in the Northwest and the Central Highlands, many Kinh moved there.
Wherever they went, the Kinh quickly adapted to local customs and traditions. It’s no surprise, then, that they manage to coexist so harmoniously with ethnic minorities, sharing their know-how. Bui Xuan Dinh explains: "The Kinh form a single bloc. When they explore new regions, they must adapt as quickly as possible. But they have a special talent for combining their skills with those of the locals to later create a new culture. In the Northeast, for example, the Kinh still practice rice cultivation. However, since these are mountainous regions with particular climatic conditions, they adopt local techniques." Influenced by Confucianism and Taoism, the Kinh practice ancestor worship. Many are also Buddhist or Catholic.
In Kinh culture, the man is considered the head of the family. In a sibling group, the eldest son has the duty to perform ancestral rites if his grandparents or parents have passed away. Kinh culture is primarily transmitted orally—it includes a vast collection of tales, legends, proverbs, and folk songs—or in writing. Festivals also play an important role in tradition. The Kinh have been making pottery for a very long time. They also practice animal husbandry, but above all, they are rice farmers at heart!
For me, There are indeed 54 ethnic groups, including the Kinh, with 53 being minorities. The Kinh struggle to accept this classification among the 54 ethnic groups.
The Kinh ethnic group, the official name, represents the majority of the population and partly originates, like other ethnic groups, from migrations—Chinese in this case, but much older (258 years before our era). Vietnam was populated as early as the Neolithic period by populations of Indonesian and Malay origin, ancestors of the highland populations known as Moï or Muong. During the Bronze Age, Chinese populations arrived from the North and blended with those already settled there to form the Viet-Kinh people.
In the revised and corrected 2010 edition, it is well referenced in the list of ethnic groups on page 277. The Kinh ethnic group is classified under the Austro-Asiatic language family—Viet-Muong group on page 12. However, no chapter is dedicated to them, though the introduction mentions them several times.
Nguyen Van Huy, project leader of the Ethnology Museum, and his team of researchers in *Mosaïque culturel des ethnies du Vietnam* also classify the Kinh as one of the 54 ethnic groups, without dedicating a chapter to them either.
The Kinh, also known as the Viet, speak Vietnamese, a language belonging to the Austro-Asiatic family. Professor Bui Xuan Dinh from the Vietnam Institute of Social Sciences states:
"The Kinh, or the Viet, are part of the Lac Viet group, which belongs to the larger Bach Viet bloc, composed of several ethnic groups. Each group has its own territory. The ancestors of the Kinh were at the origin of various cultures: Phung Nguyên, Go Mun, Dong Dau, and Dong Son. They primarily practiced flooded rice cultivation and crafts, as evidenced by the Dong Son bronze drums." Initially, the Kinh mainly lived in the northern regions and the deltas of the North. Then, starting in the 11th century, they began a gradual expansion, first toward the Center and then the South, always in search of new land to clear. By the early 20th century, when the French began establishing large urban centers in the Northwest and the Central Highlands, many Kinh moved there.
Wherever they went, the Kinh quickly adapted to local customs and traditions. It’s no surprise, then, that they manage to coexist so harmoniously with ethnic minorities, sharing their know-how. Bui Xuan Dinh explains: "The Kinh form a single bloc. When they explore new regions, they must adapt as quickly as possible. But they have a special talent for combining their skills with those of the locals to later create a new culture. In the Northeast, for example, the Kinh still practice rice cultivation. However, since these are mountainous regions with particular climatic conditions, they adopt local techniques." Influenced by Confucianism and Taoism, the Kinh practice ancestor worship. Many are also Buddhist or Catholic.
In Kinh culture, the man is considered the head of the family. In a sibling group, the eldest son has the duty to perform ancestral rites if his grandparents or parents have passed away. Kinh culture is primarily transmitted orally—it includes a vast collection of tales, legends, proverbs, and folk songs—or in writing. Festivals also play an important role in tradition. The Kinh have been making pottery for a very long time. They also practice animal husbandry, but above all, they are rice farmers at heart!
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
We agree on that point!
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Actually, there are 54 ethnic minorities, because a new one was discovered in 1959—11 families, or 34 people (now 600), the RUC, who lived in caves near the Laotian border in Quang Binh region and practiced foraging, fishing, and hunting (*Courrier du Vietnam* Magazine, June 27 to July 3, 2014)
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Yeah, I know, I’ve been on this for a while😉 .
For now, they still aren’t recognized as a distinct ethnic group—researchers prefer to associate them with the Chut ethnic group of the Viet Muong before learning more, which isn’t easy since the Ruc are very secretive.
In 1988, Paris VII University published this book (which, unfortunately, still isn’t available—I’m on the waiting list): *Vietnamese-Ruc-French Lexicon: The Language of an Ethnic Minority in the Mountains of Quảng Bình, Vietnam, with Ethnographic Notes and a Linguistic Introduction*
For now, they still aren’t recognized as a distinct ethnic group—researchers prefer to associate them with the Chut ethnic group of the Viet Muong before learning more, which isn’t easy since the Ruc are very secretive.
In 1988, Paris VII University published this book (which, unfortunately, still isn’t available—I’m on the waiting list): *Vietnamese-Ruc-French Lexicon: The Language of an Ethnic Minority in the Mountains of Quảng Bình, Vietnam, with Ethnographic Notes and a Linguistic Introduction*
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Suggestion for Asia7 and Larsay
In Huế, Father Binh, a theology professor at the major seminary located by the road leading to the Thien Mu Pagoda, might be a great help on this topic.
He’s polyglot, fluent in Vietnamese, French, Italian, English, plus a few languages (four for sure) of minorities living along the Vietnam-Laos border, so near or on the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
Le socialisme ne peut fonctionner qu’au paradis où il n’est pas utile, et en enfer où ils l’ont déjà
Hi there,
For those of us who aren’t familiar with VIETNAM, could you explain the difference between ETHNIC GROUPS and MINORITIES? (Maybe I sound silly???🤪)
That said, my trip from south to north is coming up soon... I’d love to meet other travelers to share a moment and chat (since I’m traveling solo). My dates are from APRIL 18 in the south to MAY 16 in the north.
Thanks in advance!
marie
MARIE
"Chaque voyage se vit différemment même si la destination est la même; c'est notre état d'esprit du moment et nos rencontres qui en font la différence"
Father Binh must be around 75 to 80 years old now, so he’s certainly retired;
hopefully enjoying his retirement where he used to teach.
I knew him well and spent a lot of time with him between 1991 and 1996; he lived in a house on the path behind the train station.
First, we’d need to find out if he’s met them or heard of them... If he has, he’ll share his personal thoughts; he’s not the type to proselytize—he’s a Vietnamese man of great culture. Watch out for his tea, though!! It’s *super* strong and gives you a killer headache. 😉 Dilute it before drinking...
First, we’d need to find out if he’s met them or heard of them... If he has, he’ll share his personal thoughts; he’s not the type to proselytize—he’s a Vietnamese man of great culture. Watch out for his tea, though!! It’s *super* strong and gives you a killer headache. 😉 Dilute it before drinking...
Le socialisme ne peut fonctionner qu’au paradis où il n’est pas utile, et en enfer où ils l’ont déjà
Hi,
Great info about the festival in HUE. It takes place from April 28 to May 2;
Personally, I’ll be there from April 27 to 29... (pure coincidence)...
MARIE
MARIE
"Chaque voyage se vit différemment même si la destination est la même; c'est notre état d'esprit du moment et nos rencontres qui en font la différence"
I was lucky enough to take part in the first festival, which began on April 4, 1992;
At the time, there was a French Center in Huế run masterfully by Mr. Philippe Catelin;
he was about 30 years old, a doctor in—I don’t remember what—specializing in the Spanish War! (The one from 1808 to 1813.) So, nothing to do with Vietnam 😉
It’s quite a long story, and it’s starting to feel like ancient history; it was thanks to Vietnamese people from Huế who worked at EDF (Électricité de France) that this festival came to life, largely sponsored by their company.
Two photos taken on April 4 or 5, 1992; scans of film photos


It’s quite a long story, and it’s starting to feel like ancient history; it was thanks to Vietnamese people from Huế who worked at EDF (Électricité de France) that this festival came to life, largely sponsored by their company.
Two photos taken on April 4 or 5, 1992; scans of film photos


Le socialisme ne peut fonctionner qu’au paradis où il n’est pas utile, et en enfer où ils l’ont déjà
Hi and thanks for these really beautiful photos and info.
Best,
Marie
MARIE
"Chaque voyage se vit différemment même si la destination est la même; c'est notre état d'esprit du moment et nos rencontres qui en font la différence"
Hi Quynh,
- Do you happen to know if it’s possible to rent a car for the day (with a driver) in Trung Khanh to visit the Phong Nam Valley and the Ngoc Con Valley? I’m sure there are some in Cao Bang, but are there any in Trung Khanh itself?
- Do you know if the bus from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc stops near the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" nature reserve, which is on the way to the waterfalls? It would really work for us to take the bus to that spot since it’s only 4 km from our hotel.
This would be for a 3-4 day trip to the region next December. My dad speaks Vietnamese, but we haven’t been able to get precise information about this.
- Do you happen to know if it’s possible to rent a car for the day (with a driver) in Trung Khanh to visit the Phong Nam Valley and the Ngoc Con Valley? I’m sure there are some in Cao Bang, but are there any in Trung Khanh itself?
- Do you know if the bus from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc stops near the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" nature reserve, which is on the way to the waterfalls? It would really work for us to take the bus to that spot since it’s only 4 km from our hotel.
This would be for a 3-4 day trip to the region next December. My dad speaks Vietnamese, but we haven’t been able to get precise information about this.
Generally, in October, there isn’t much water left,
but based on my last trip this year, the rains came later in Vietnam.
The rainfall was heavy, so the waterfall is still really beautiful.
That said, watch out for storms.
I got stuck for three days and stayed in a homestay the whole time.
Thomas
Hi there,
Sorry for the late reply, but I came across your message today while checking a new post alert in this thread generated by the site.
Hi Quynh, - Do you happen to know if it’s possible to rent a car for the day (with a driver) in Trung Khanh to visit Phong Nam Valley and Ngoc Con Valley? There are probably options in Cao Bang, but are there any in Trung Khanh?
- Do you know if the bus from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc stops near the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" nature reserve on the way to the waterfalls? It would be convenient for us to take the bus to that spot since it’s only 4 km from our hotel.
This would be for a 3-4 day trip in the region next December. My dad speaks Vietnamese, but we haven’t been able to get precise info on this.
The "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" is located on the DT211 provincial road, starting from Trung Khanh, while the road to Ban Gioc Waterfalls is on the DT206. The public bus from Cao Bang passes through Trung Khanh before continuing on the DT206 toward Ban Gioc Waterfalls. From what I can tell, the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" is about 4-5 km from Trung Khanh.
As for renting a car with a driver in Trung Khanh, I can’t say for sure, but I assume it’s possible (with services like Grab, for example). If you’re staying at a hotel in Trung Khanh, they probably won’t have too much trouble finding you a car with a driver.
Best regards, Quynh
Hi Quynh, - Do you happen to know if it’s possible to rent a car for the day (with a driver) in Trung Khanh to visit Phong Nam Valley and Ngoc Con Valley? There are probably options in Cao Bang, but are there any in Trung Khanh?
- Do you know if the bus from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc stops near the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" nature reserve on the way to the waterfalls? It would be convenient for us to take the bus to that spot since it’s only 4 km from our hotel.
This would be for a 3-4 day trip in the region next December. My dad speaks Vietnamese, but we haven’t been able to get precise info on this.
The "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" is located on the DT211 provincial road, starting from Trung Khanh, while the road to Ban Gioc Waterfalls is on the DT206. The public bus from Cao Bang passes through Trung Khanh before continuing on the DT206 toward Ban Gioc Waterfalls. From what I can tell, the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" is about 4-5 km from Trung Khanh.
As for renting a car with a driver in Trung Khanh, I can’t say for sure, but I assume it’s possible (with services like Grab, for example). If you’re staying at a hotel in Trung Khanh, they probably won’t have too much trouble finding you a car with a driver.
Best regards, Quynh
Vu Do Quynh (Hanoi, Vietnam)
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/
Generally, in October, there isn’t much water left,
but based on my latest trip this year, the rains arrived later in Vietnam.
The rainfall was heavy, so the waterfall is still very beautiful.
However, you need to watch out for storms.
I was stuck for three days and stayed in a homestay the whole time.
Following typhoons No. 10 (Bualoi) and No. 11 (Matmo), Ban Gioc Waterfalls were temporarily closed due to the significant flooding caused by the heavy rains:
https://laodong.vn/du-lich/tin-tuc/thac-ban-gioc-tam-dung-don-khach-vi-mua-lu-nguy-hiem-1587636.html https://vnexpress.net/dung-tham-quan-thac-ban-gioc-vi-lu-lon-4948236.html
(It’s in Vietnamese, but with AI tools now, translation is totally accessible to everyone.)
Generally, rains from typhoons affect the mountainous regions of northern Vietnam in July, August, and September, so the water level at Ban Gioc Waterfalls will be highest from July to September-October. See:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climat_du_Vietnam https://www.climatsetvoyages.com/climat/vietnam/cao-bang
Best regards
Following typhoons No. 10 (Bualoi) and No. 11 (Matmo), Ban Gioc Waterfalls were temporarily closed due to the significant flooding caused by the heavy rains:
https://laodong.vn/du-lich/tin-tuc/thac-ban-gioc-tam-dung-don-khach-vi-mua-lu-nguy-hiem-1587636.html https://vnexpress.net/dung-tham-quan-thac-ban-gioc-vi-lu-lon-4948236.html
(It’s in Vietnamese, but with AI tools now, translation is totally accessible to everyone.)
Generally, rains from typhoons affect the mountainous regions of northern Vietnam in July, August, and September, so the water level at Ban Gioc Waterfalls will be highest from July to September-October. See:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climat_du_Vietnam https://www.climatsetvoyages.com/climat/vietnam/cao-bang
Best regards
Vu Do Quynh (Hanoi, Vietnam)
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/
Hi there,
Thanks so much for your reply—looks like I’m getting back to you pretty late too. My apologies for the delay. It’s been really tough to get info on the questions I asked: We’ll try to find a car with a driver in Trung Khanh... We’ll see how it goes. On the other hand, there’s a hotel—the Phong Nam Station—that isn’t responding, despite our booking... Hope it hasn’t closed down.
All the best, Tim07
Thanks so much for your reply—looks like I’m getting back to you pretty late too. My apologies for the delay. It’s been really tough to get info on the questions I asked: We’ll try to find a car with a driver in Trung Khanh... We’ll see how it goes. On the other hand, there’s a hotel—the Phong Nam Station—that isn’t responding, despite our booking... Hope it hasn’t closed down.
All the best, Tim07
I doubt you’ll find a car with a driver in Trùng Khánh, a small non-touristy town. Rent in Cao Bằng instead and head down to the excellent 3-star JEANNE hotel (she was Chartron’s nurse). There are several Gioc hotels, including a 3-star one; no need to book ahead—few people spend a night in Ban Gioc since it’s easy to visit in a day with lunch by the falls.
For reference, here’s a reminder of the terrible events of late October 1950:
THE BATTLE OF ROUTE COLONIALE 4
Route Coloniale 4 (RC 4), now Highway 4A from Lạng Sơn to Cao Bằng and 4B from Lạng Sơn to the coast, was a super-strategic road because it runs along the entire Chinese border between the Gulf of Tonkin and Cao Bằng in the northeast, including the three “gates” to China: Móng Cái, Lạng Sơn, and Cao Bằng. This partly explains why, in 1979, the Chinese suddenly bombed and leveled these three cities—plus Lào Cai, the fourth “gate”—before invading the north and suffering a humiliating defeat (50,000 dead and over 400 tanks destroyed).
Many tourists travel from Lạng Sơn to Cao Bằng without knowing—or at all—what happened there in 1950. Yet October 7, 1950, should be a major date in modern history: for the first time, a colonized people in rebellion inflicted a bloody defeat on a colonizing army, which, for France, foreshadowed the inevitable conclusion—delayed by four years due to the stupidity of the governments at the time: Điện Biên Phủ. In fact, the Indochina War was lost at Đông Khê in October 1950.
THE PLAYERS:
On the Asian side: Hồ Chí Minh and Giáp, who had been hiding in the limestone mountains of the northeast since 1941, Viet Minh groups with nothing, and Mao, who was pushing Chiang Kai-shek’s troops back to the Vietnamese border.
On the French side: a government that only cared about Indochina for the billions it brought in, mainly in Vietnam, with big corporations exploiting the three countries (Banque d’Indochine, Brasseries et Glacières d’Indochine, Michelin—rubber plantations—the import-export and maritime shipping companies, etc.), blocking all reforms to keep lining their pockets, and an Expeditionary Corps, the best troops in the world at the time, including the Legion, paratroopers, and Moroccan tabors, led by commanders who would later become famous: Bigeard, Jeanpierre, Trinquier, Faulques, Ponchardier (yes, the brother of the future author of the *Série Noire* novels *Le Gorille*), Élie de Saint Marc, Charton, etc., veterans of Leclerc’s 2nd Armored Division and de Lattre’s 1st Army. Unfortunately for them, this incredible military force was led by a complete incompetent, a protégé of Marshal Juin, General Carpentier, whom de Lattre had fired for incompetence in 1944. This hothead refused to learn about the terrain—crucial in a war like this—or the troops: that was the job of his subordinates. He stayed in his Saigon office, writing glowing reports to the government claiming everything was improving (how history repeats itself; these were the same lies told by U.S. generals during the Vietnam War, with the same results). In fact, just before the disaster, this incompetent told the government he “had the situation well in hand and could likely send troops back to France soon.” The result of his ineptitude: by 1950, he had rarely set foot in Tonkin, except for brief staff meetings, and he refused to listen to the field officers—and French intelligence—who knew exactly what was really happening.
THE SETTING
The northeast is a maze of limestone peaks and deep canyons or valleys, all covered in jungle, riddled with caves, and crisscrossed by a labyrinth of small roads and trails. From Lạng Sơn to Đông Khê, halfway between Lạng Sơn and Cao Bằng, the road follows a valley lined with cultivated hills and has no particularly dangerous spots. From Đông Khê onward, it’s a death trap: the road winds from one pass to another along the river, with limestone cliffs covered in jungle on either side and the river below to the right. Any maneuver is impossible. A small mountain cannon in a cave overlooking the road—and there are hundreds—could destroy the lead and rear trucks of a convoy, and *boom*, no more convoy. Giáp knew this well, but Carpentier didn’t at all, since he’d never been there and refused to listen to the many officers who predicted a catastrophe and recommended evacuating all the posts between Cao Bằng and the impregnable Lạng Sơn before the Viet Minh grew too strong.
THE PRELUDE
In early 1950, Mao’s troops reached the Vietnamese border, pushing back Chiang Kai-shek’s forces in northern Tonkin, which the French managed to disarm, and in northern Thailand, where they settled in the Golden Triangle. In addition to tea plantations, they organized the opium trade, controlling 80% of global production in the 1960s–80s. Mao had now taken over the massive American arms depots and camps in Yunnan, where he invited Giáp to train entire divisions, armed and trained by his generals. French intelligence, no less competent than others, was fully aware of the situation and informed the General Staff, which did nothing except send the Legion to Cao Bằng (the famous 2nd BEP under the command of a legendary warrior, Colonel Charton) and to posts along RC 4, including the main ones: Thất Khê, Na Cham, and Đông Khê (plus smaller ones at the top of each pass). Now well-equipped and trained, the Viet Minh constantly harassed the posts to “get their bearings.” In 1950, some supply convoys lost up to 90% of their trucks between Đông Khê and Cao Bằng.
THE DISASTER
On May 25, 1950, the warning shot: the Viet Minh’s elite 308th Division seized Đông Khê and cut RC 4 in two. The French command was surprised (though intelligence had warned them) to discover that the Viet Minh now had entire, well-equipped divisions. On May 27, the paratroopers of the 3rd BCCP jumped directly onto Đông Khê and recaptured it. On September 15, the Viet Minh took the town back, and it was never retaken. Carpentier decided to evacuate RC 4 between Cao Bằng and Lạng Sơn, which could have been done by airlift, but—ever the genius—he decided it would be done… by road. His plan was for the paratroopers to retake Đông Khê a second time, for a column led by Colonel Lepage to move up the road from Lạng Sơn and link up with the column evacuating Cao Bằng, and for everyone to return calmly to Lạng Sơn. The whole plan hinged on the French retaking Đông Khê.
Charton left Cao Bằng, taking all the civilians with him—which largely explains the evacuation’s failure, and he knew it but refused to abandon them to a certain fate. Of course, nothing went as planned: Despite their heroism, the paratroopers of the 1st BEP couldn’t retake Đông Khê—so RC 4 was still cut off. Lepage’s column was sliced up by the Viet Minh and ended up in a basin south of Đông Khê, at Cốc Xá, hemmed in by sheer cliffs on one side and jungle-covered mountains on the other. Learning that Đông Khê was still in Viet Minh hands, the command—still safely in Lạng Sơn—ordered Charton to take an isolated jungle trail, the Quảng Liêt trail, which bypassed Đông Khê. When he reached the town’s level, as a good soldier, he had everyone climb the ridges overlooking the basin, but Lepage sent desperate distress calls, so Charton also brought his troops down into the Cốc Xá basin to try to rescue him. It was the rendezvous of death: On October 7, 1950, both columns were annihilated at Cốc Xá. The toll: 2,000 French soldiers dead and 3,000 prisoners, fewer than 1,000 of whom were recovered when de Lattre arrived—mostly North Africans, now well-indoctrinated in anti-colonial warfare. The others died of starvation and disease in the Viet Minh’s terrible camps, which Hélie de Saint Marc, who experienced both, said were worse than Nazi concentration camps. Only about a hundred men escaped the trap and managed to reach Thất Khê after days of wandering in the jungle.
THE SHAME
After the disaster, total shame and panic among the French. Though Lạng Sơn was impregnable, the garrison commander, Colonel Constans, decided to abandon it “by surprise,” so he didn’t blow up the huge forts surrounding the city or the massive depots, which were so enormous that they supplied an entire Giáp division for a year. Panic also set in in Hanoi, which the French began evacuating. De Lattre, appointed Commander of the Expeditionary Corps and Governor-General of Indochina, saved the situation in three bloody battles: Vĩnh Yên west of Hanoi, Mạo Khê to the north, and Ninh Bình to the south. But as of October 7, 1950, the Indochina War was lost. Giáp now controlled the entire northeast, from which soldiers (including many Chinese technicians and even troops) and, most importantly, motorized supply convoys instead of porters could move freely all the way to Điện Biên Phủ.
Nothing remains of the large French post at Đông Khê except a small blockhouse made of rubble and a few ammunition bunkers. However, a fantastic walk takes you to Hồ Chí Minh and Giáp’s headquarters during the Battle of RC 4, located in the village of Đức Long. To get there, continue down the street in front of the fort and go straight to the village. At the end of the road, a small sign points left to a path; take it and you’ll enter a maze of concrete trails with caves everywhere—that’s the famous HQ. The yellow stilt house was where Giáp and HCM slept; walk around it and climb the steps. The caves are scattered to the right and left. Return to the road and continue left to reach a small, interesting museum about the October 1950 battle.
The Cốc Xá basin south of Đông Khê
Unforgettable day! Take RC 4 toward Cao Bằng; at a roundabout, turn left onto the old RC 4 and climb the Nguộm Kim Pass, site of the most terrible ambushes on the “Bloody Road.” The views are breathtaking. At the kilometer marker “Cao Bằng 32 km” (there are two houses on the right and one on the left), take a small road to the left (make sure you take the right one by simply asking for “Cốc Xá,” pronounced *Coc Sa*). This road quickly turns into a trail; keep going until you can’t drive any farther in a 4x4. You’re in an idyllic valley with, from left to right, the famous limestone cliffs of Cốc Xá that trapped the French, the trail, a small river, rice paddies, and wooded hills. In the small Tay village, there’s a house-grocery-bar on the left; you have two choices: walk 4 km to the foot of the Cốc Xá cliff where the French were “trapped,” or ask the shopkeeper to call some motorbikes. The local young people, smiling and knowledgeable about the battle’s history, are happy to make 100,000 ₫ per bike (we went by motorbike and walked back—it’s so beautiful, including the Tay women transplanting rice).
If you want to spend a night in Đông Khê, the only decent hotel is the Mai Hiền at the town’s entrance, and the only decent restaurant is the Nhà Hàng Bảo Văn in the town center.
For reference, here’s a reminder of the terrible events of late October 1950:
THE BATTLE OF ROUTE COLONIALE 4
Route Coloniale 4 (RC 4), now Highway 4A from Lạng Sơn to Cao Bằng and 4B from Lạng Sơn to the coast, was a super-strategic road because it runs along the entire Chinese border between the Gulf of Tonkin and Cao Bằng in the northeast, including the three “gates” to China: Móng Cái, Lạng Sơn, and Cao Bằng. This partly explains why, in 1979, the Chinese suddenly bombed and leveled these three cities—plus Lào Cai, the fourth “gate”—before invading the north and suffering a humiliating defeat (50,000 dead and over 400 tanks destroyed).
Many tourists travel from Lạng Sơn to Cao Bằng without knowing—or at all—what happened there in 1950. Yet October 7, 1950, should be a major date in modern history: for the first time, a colonized people in rebellion inflicted a bloody defeat on a colonizing army, which, for France, foreshadowed the inevitable conclusion—delayed by four years due to the stupidity of the governments at the time: Điện Biên Phủ. In fact, the Indochina War was lost at Đông Khê in October 1950.
THE PLAYERS:
On the Asian side: Hồ Chí Minh and Giáp, who had been hiding in the limestone mountains of the northeast since 1941, Viet Minh groups with nothing, and Mao, who was pushing Chiang Kai-shek’s troops back to the Vietnamese border.
On the French side: a government that only cared about Indochina for the billions it brought in, mainly in Vietnam, with big corporations exploiting the three countries (Banque d’Indochine, Brasseries et Glacières d’Indochine, Michelin—rubber plantations—the import-export and maritime shipping companies, etc.), blocking all reforms to keep lining their pockets, and an Expeditionary Corps, the best troops in the world at the time, including the Legion, paratroopers, and Moroccan tabors, led by commanders who would later become famous: Bigeard, Jeanpierre, Trinquier, Faulques, Ponchardier (yes, the brother of the future author of the *Série Noire* novels *Le Gorille*), Élie de Saint Marc, Charton, etc., veterans of Leclerc’s 2nd Armored Division and de Lattre’s 1st Army. Unfortunately for them, this incredible military force was led by a complete incompetent, a protégé of Marshal Juin, General Carpentier, whom de Lattre had fired for incompetence in 1944. This hothead refused to learn about the terrain—crucial in a war like this—or the troops: that was the job of his subordinates. He stayed in his Saigon office, writing glowing reports to the government claiming everything was improving (how history repeats itself; these were the same lies told by U.S. generals during the Vietnam War, with the same results). In fact, just before the disaster, this incompetent told the government he “had the situation well in hand and could likely send troops back to France soon.” The result of his ineptitude: by 1950, he had rarely set foot in Tonkin, except for brief staff meetings, and he refused to listen to the field officers—and French intelligence—who knew exactly what was really happening.
THE SETTING
The northeast is a maze of limestone peaks and deep canyons or valleys, all covered in jungle, riddled with caves, and crisscrossed by a labyrinth of small roads and trails. From Lạng Sơn to Đông Khê, halfway between Lạng Sơn and Cao Bằng, the road follows a valley lined with cultivated hills and has no particularly dangerous spots. From Đông Khê onward, it’s a death trap: the road winds from one pass to another along the river, with limestone cliffs covered in jungle on either side and the river below to the right. Any maneuver is impossible. A small mountain cannon in a cave overlooking the road—and there are hundreds—could destroy the lead and rear trucks of a convoy, and *boom*, no more convoy. Giáp knew this well, but Carpentier didn’t at all, since he’d never been there and refused to listen to the many officers who predicted a catastrophe and recommended evacuating all the posts between Cao Bằng and the impregnable Lạng Sơn before the Viet Minh grew too strong.
THE PRELUDE
In early 1950, Mao’s troops reached the Vietnamese border, pushing back Chiang Kai-shek’s forces in northern Tonkin, which the French managed to disarm, and in northern Thailand, where they settled in the Golden Triangle. In addition to tea plantations, they organized the opium trade, controlling 80% of global production in the 1960s–80s. Mao had now taken over the massive American arms depots and camps in Yunnan, where he invited Giáp to train entire divisions, armed and trained by his generals. French intelligence, no less competent than others, was fully aware of the situation and informed the General Staff, which did nothing except send the Legion to Cao Bằng (the famous 2nd BEP under the command of a legendary warrior, Colonel Charton) and to posts along RC 4, including the main ones: Thất Khê, Na Cham, and Đông Khê (plus smaller ones at the top of each pass). Now well-equipped and trained, the Viet Minh constantly harassed the posts to “get their bearings.” In 1950, some supply convoys lost up to 90% of their trucks between Đông Khê and Cao Bằng.
THE DISASTER
On May 25, 1950, the warning shot: the Viet Minh’s elite 308th Division seized Đông Khê and cut RC 4 in two. The French command was surprised (though intelligence had warned them) to discover that the Viet Minh now had entire, well-equipped divisions. On May 27, the paratroopers of the 3rd BCCP jumped directly onto Đông Khê and recaptured it. On September 15, the Viet Minh took the town back, and it was never retaken. Carpentier decided to evacuate RC 4 between Cao Bằng and Lạng Sơn, which could have been done by airlift, but—ever the genius—he decided it would be done… by road. His plan was for the paratroopers to retake Đông Khê a second time, for a column led by Colonel Lepage to move up the road from Lạng Sơn and link up with the column evacuating Cao Bằng, and for everyone to return calmly to Lạng Sơn. The whole plan hinged on the French retaking Đông Khê.
Charton left Cao Bằng, taking all the civilians with him—which largely explains the evacuation’s failure, and he knew it but refused to abandon them to a certain fate. Of course, nothing went as planned: Despite their heroism, the paratroopers of the 1st BEP couldn’t retake Đông Khê—so RC 4 was still cut off. Lepage’s column was sliced up by the Viet Minh and ended up in a basin south of Đông Khê, at Cốc Xá, hemmed in by sheer cliffs on one side and jungle-covered mountains on the other. Learning that Đông Khê was still in Viet Minh hands, the command—still safely in Lạng Sơn—ordered Charton to take an isolated jungle trail, the Quảng Liêt trail, which bypassed Đông Khê. When he reached the town’s level, as a good soldier, he had everyone climb the ridges overlooking the basin, but Lepage sent desperate distress calls, so Charton also brought his troops down into the Cốc Xá basin to try to rescue him. It was the rendezvous of death: On October 7, 1950, both columns were annihilated at Cốc Xá. The toll: 2,000 French soldiers dead and 3,000 prisoners, fewer than 1,000 of whom were recovered when de Lattre arrived—mostly North Africans, now well-indoctrinated in anti-colonial warfare. The others died of starvation and disease in the Viet Minh’s terrible camps, which Hélie de Saint Marc, who experienced both, said were worse than Nazi concentration camps. Only about a hundred men escaped the trap and managed to reach Thất Khê after days of wandering in the jungle.
THE SHAME
After the disaster, total shame and panic among the French. Though Lạng Sơn was impregnable, the garrison commander, Colonel Constans, decided to abandon it “by surprise,” so he didn’t blow up the huge forts surrounding the city or the massive depots, which were so enormous that they supplied an entire Giáp division for a year. Panic also set in in Hanoi, which the French began evacuating. De Lattre, appointed Commander of the Expeditionary Corps and Governor-General of Indochina, saved the situation in three bloody battles: Vĩnh Yên west of Hanoi, Mạo Khê to the north, and Ninh Bình to the south. But as of October 7, 1950, the Indochina War was lost. Giáp now controlled the entire northeast, from which soldiers (including many Chinese technicians and even troops) and, most importantly, motorized supply convoys instead of porters could move freely all the way to Điện Biên Phủ.
Nothing remains of the large French post at Đông Khê except a small blockhouse made of rubble and a few ammunition bunkers. However, a fantastic walk takes you to Hồ Chí Minh and Giáp’s headquarters during the Battle of RC 4, located in the village of Đức Long. To get there, continue down the street in front of the fort and go straight to the village. At the end of the road, a small sign points left to a path; take it and you’ll enter a maze of concrete trails with caves everywhere—that’s the famous HQ. The yellow stilt house was where Giáp and HCM slept; walk around it and climb the steps. The caves are scattered to the right and left. Return to the road and continue left to reach a small, interesting museum about the October 1950 battle.
The Cốc Xá basin south of Đông Khê
Unforgettable day! Take RC 4 toward Cao Bằng; at a roundabout, turn left onto the old RC 4 and climb the Nguộm Kim Pass, site of the most terrible ambushes on the “Bloody Road.” The views are breathtaking. At the kilometer marker “Cao Bằng 32 km” (there are two houses on the right and one on the left), take a small road to the left (make sure you take the right one by simply asking for “Cốc Xá,” pronounced *Coc Sa*). This road quickly turns into a trail; keep going until you can’t drive any farther in a 4x4. You’re in an idyllic valley with, from left to right, the famous limestone cliffs of Cốc Xá that trapped the French, the trail, a small river, rice paddies, and wooded hills. In the small Tay village, there’s a house-grocery-bar on the left; you have two choices: walk 4 km to the foot of the Cốc Xá cliff where the French were “trapped,” or ask the shopkeeper to call some motorbikes. The local young people, smiling and knowledgeable about the battle’s history, are happy to make 100,000 ₫ per bike (we went by motorbike and walked back—it’s so beautiful, including the Tay women transplanting rice).
If you want to spend a night in Đông Khê, the only decent hotel is the Mai Hiền at the town’s entrance, and the only decent restaurant is the Nhà Hàng Bảo Văn in the town center.
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
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Un mois au Vietnam, des montagnes du nord au delta du MékongFR
Découverte des ethnies minoritaires du nord du VietnamFR
More discussions
Hi everyone,
I’m looking for addresses for guesthouses or, even better, houseboats or rafting houses on the River Kwai, between Kanchanaburi and Sangkhlaburi, to spend a few weeks contemplating this beautiful river.
Thanks for your suggestions!
Premaria
Hi there,
we’re currently in Mai Chau and tomorrow we’re hitting the road back to Hanoi to head up toward Bac Ha and Sapa.
We haven’t really had a set plan since we arrived—we’ve already done the Halong Bay on land and by sea.
I’ve got 2 free days before heading to Bac Ha and Sapa.
Any tips?
Thanks, and looking forward to hearing from you.
Hi fellow travelers,
First trip to Vietnam.
We’ll be arriving in Ho Chi Minh City during Tet.
Is it complicated to find accommodation and get around during this period?
Any tips would be welcome.
Thanks for your replies.
Hey everyone,
Silly question—backpack or hard-shell suitcase for the Sepilok, Kinabatangan, Tioman, KL trip? I’m struggling to fit all my son’s and my stuff into the 70L backpack... and I’m thinking a suitcase would be easier, but I’m not sure if it’ll work for getting around.
Thanks! 🙂
Silly question—backpack or hard-shell suitcase for the Sepilok, Kinabatangan, Tioman, KL trip? I’m struggling to fit all my son’s and my stuff into the 70L backpack... and I’m thinking a suitcase would be easier, but I’m not sure if it’ll work for getting around.
Thanks! 🙂
Hi there,
I didn’t plan to return to Thailand this year, but my health conditions mean it’ll be the best place for me to stay between two trips to India. The tourism setup there is so well-organized that it’s the most "comfortable" country for a short visit. Thailand feels too sanitized for my taste, and there’s too much religion, Buddha, and the King, but it’s still the best option given how my health has been evolving. I’d considered two weeks in ThaTon for hiking, but I got too sick from the burn-offs during my trips to the mountains around Chiang Rai. So I’m not sure where to go this year. Definitely not the sea, touristy spots, or the mountains with burn-offs...
Thanks, friends, if you’ve got any suggestions.
Thanks, friends, if you’ve got any suggestions.
Hello.
In 1996, we crossed Vietnam from Saigon to Hanoi by motorbike—Minsk bikes we bought in Saigon. I haven’t been back since, and it seems like a lot has changed.
- We’re heading to the south (well, the north and center) with the family in July-August (3 people).
- Is the road network more developed now? Back then, there was only National Route 1 from south to north. I’m thinking of renting a car this time (no motorbike with the family—though in ’96, they had a Jawa sidecar for sale, and we hesitated… maybe it’s for the best).
- Is Halong Bay really something to avoid because of overtourism? Even back then, it was pretty crowded. Is there a less touristy alternative?
- We’ll be traveling from Hanoi down to Danang (the only city we didn’t stop in back in ’96). Even though it’s a bit overhyped in a Chinese-tourist kind of way (from what I’ve read), we’re only going for the beach—pure relaxation for 7 days. The beaches are stunning, and I know the South China Sea is warm like coffee.
- Then, we’ll visit Hoi An, where I stopped in ’96. It was already popular with backpackers back then, but no glowing boats or all the touristy fuss!
- After that, Hue, where I have great memories—it’s a beautiful city.
- And also the nature around Ninh Binh, followed by 2-3 days in Hanoi.
That’s the plan. I’d love to hear any tips to avoid mass tourism, and if anyone’s done this before: - Is it possible to rent a car in Danang and drop it off in Hanoi?
Thanks, and long live the Nam! !
- We’re heading to the south (well, the north and center) with the family in July-August (3 people).
- Is the road network more developed now? Back then, there was only National Route 1 from south to north. I’m thinking of renting a car this time (no motorbike with the family—though in ’96, they had a Jawa sidecar for sale, and we hesitated… maybe it’s for the best).
- Is Halong Bay really something to avoid because of overtourism? Even back then, it was pretty crowded. Is there a less touristy alternative?
- We’ll be traveling from Hanoi down to Danang (the only city we didn’t stop in back in ’96). Even though it’s a bit overhyped in a Chinese-tourist kind of way (from what I’ve read), we’re only going for the beach—pure relaxation for 7 days. The beaches are stunning, and I know the South China Sea is warm like coffee.
- Then, we’ll visit Hoi An, where I stopped in ’96. It was already popular with backpackers back then, but no glowing boats or all the touristy fuss!
- After that, Hue, where I have great memories—it’s a beautiful city.
- And also the nature around Ninh Binh, followed by 2-3 days in Hanoi.
That’s the plan. I’d love to hear any tips to avoid mass tourism, and if anyone’s done this before: - Is it possible to rent a car in Danang and drop it off in Hanoi?
Thanks, and long live the Nam! !
Hey everyone,
I’m over in East Borneo in mid-July.
I’m struggling to wrap up the end of my itinerary, even though it’s pretty straightforward (long but simple).
Last year, we did Malaysia (KL and the mainland + around Kuching).
Day 1 – Arrive in Kota Kinabalu early, stroll around town and hit the must-sees. Day 2 – Excursion to Tunku Abdul Rahman Park, snorkeling at 3 islands. Day 3 – Hike around Mount Kinabalu without summiting (450 per person, no way). Day 4 – Poring Hot Springs + evening flight to Sandakan. Day 5-6-7 – Kinabatangan River (still looking for the right guide). Day 8 – Sepilok for the orangutans, the Sun Bear Centre, and Rainforest Discovery Centre. Day 9 – Selingan, turtle island. Day 10 – Head to Semporna. Day 11-12-13-14 – Sipadan, Mabul, Kapalai. Day 15 – Bohey Dulang. Day 16 to Day 25: I’M STUCK.
I looked into Danum Valley, but for 3 days/2 nights, they’re quoting 650 € per person—come on, that’s ridiculous. I checked out a detour into Indonesia (still East Borneo), but I’m having trouble deciding what would be amazing. I read about Sangalaki + Kakaban (2 islands, 1 base) / Mahakam Delta - Kutai (orangutans and river) / Sungai Boh (Dayak Kayan) – jungle & culture. But honestly, I’m struggling to finalize this itinerary. If we venture that way, we’d head back to KK from Balikpapan.
What do you all think? Thanks in advance!
Day 1 – Arrive in Kota Kinabalu early, stroll around town and hit the must-sees. Day 2 – Excursion to Tunku Abdul Rahman Park, snorkeling at 3 islands. Day 3 – Hike around Mount Kinabalu without summiting (450 per person, no way). Day 4 – Poring Hot Springs + evening flight to Sandakan. Day 5-6-7 – Kinabatangan River (still looking for the right guide). Day 8 – Sepilok for the orangutans, the Sun Bear Centre, and Rainforest Discovery Centre. Day 9 – Selingan, turtle island. Day 10 – Head to Semporna. Day 11-12-13-14 – Sipadan, Mabul, Kapalai. Day 15 – Bohey Dulang. Day 16 to Day 25: I’M STUCK.
I looked into Danum Valley, but for 3 days/2 nights, they’re quoting 650 € per person—come on, that’s ridiculous. I checked out a detour into Indonesia (still East Borneo), but I’m having trouble deciding what would be amazing. I read about Sangalaki + Kakaban (2 islands, 1 base) / Mahakam Delta - Kutai (orangutans and river) / Sungai Boh (Dayak Kayan) – jungle & culture. But honestly, I’m struggling to finalize this itinerary. If we venture that way, we’d head back to KK from Balikpapan.
What do you all think? Thanks in advance!
Hi everyone,
For a 4-month stay in Egypt, I had ENORMOUS problems. The regulations are very bureaucratic and extremely nitpicky there. For a 4-month stay in the Philippines, I was wondering if the procedures are just as complicated? I’m bringing my cell phone with an eSIM. Should I choose a plan from Canada for use in the Philippines, or should I get a plan only once I arrive? After 30 days, do I renew with the Canadian provider I chose before leaving, or do I switch to a local company? Do I need to register my phone with the authorities in the Philippines? (That was the case in Egypt.) For the 3rd and 4th months, will it be just as simple—renewing with a Canadian or local provider—or should I expect problems?
Thanks for your opinions/answers! Marc Lamarre
For a 4-month stay in Egypt, I had ENORMOUS problems. The regulations are very bureaucratic and extremely nitpicky there. For a 4-month stay in the Philippines, I was wondering if the procedures are just as complicated? I’m bringing my cell phone with an eSIM. Should I choose a plan from Canada for use in the Philippines, or should I get a plan only once I arrive? After 30 days, do I renew with the Canadian provider I chose before leaving, or do I switch to a local company? Do I need to register my phone with the authorities in the Philippines? (That was the case in Egypt.) For the 3rd and 4th months, will it be just as simple—renewing with a Canadian or local provider—or should I expect problems?
Thanks for your opinions/answers! Marc Lamarre
Hello,
I’ll be in Malaysia with my wife, mainly in Langkawi and Penang for Christmas and New Year’s at the end of 2026.
If you’ve had the experience—and since I’ve read (though it’s not very clear) that these two islands get quite crowded during this period—would you recommend booking accommodation well in advance, or is it easy to find something on the spot?
Hotels or Airbnb?
Do you have any great tips for accommodation or any practical info to share?
We’ll be staying 5 to 7 days on each island.
Thanks in advance for your replies
Hi there. To make the most of Lake Toba, is it better to find accommodation on the lake’s shores (which one?) or on Samosir Island? Thanks for your tips!
Hi. Is it possible to take the train from Malacca to Ipoh? Thanks for your feedback.
Hi there,
We’re heading to Vietnam as a family on July 8th for a little over 3 weeks (north and center). We’ve only booked the first 3 nights in Hanoi, and nothing else after that. We like to decide things on the spot and go with the flow, without rushing everywhere. But I’m still a bit unsure: when heading down to the center (Hue), is it better to book the overnight trains in advance? We don’t want to take any flights while we’re there—just use the overnight train for the long trips. But I’m worried we won’t get seats if we buy the tickets on the spot, say, 2 days before. What do the experts here think? And which website can we use to book the tickets? Thanks in advance for your tips!
Hi everyone!
I’m heading back to Thailand in July 2026 with a stopover in Cambodia to visit the Angkor site.
After Angkor, I’ve booked a stay on Ko Chang island. Does anyone know if there are direct transport options from Cambodia to Ko Chang without having to go back through Bangkok? That would be amazing!!
I think there are, but I’d need more details!!
I went to Thailand in February 2025 and don’t remember having to apply for a visa—is that still the case now? And for Cambodia too?
Thanks so much!!!
Laurence from Bayonne
Hello,
We’re a couple looking for a driver for 10 days to explore Northern Vietnam in April.
Best regards,
I’d love to get some feedback on our itinerary—it’s probably pretty basic! This is our second trip to Asia and our first to Indonesia. We have three kids aged 20, 18, and 12. We land in Jakarta at 4 PM, spend 3 nights/2 days there, then take the train to Yogyakarta for 3 nights/2 days, followed by the train to Surabaya for 2 nights/1 day, then the train to Bromo for 1 day/1 night, a private driver to Ijen for 2 nights/2 days, then on to Bali (Ubud) for 4 nights/3 days, followed by Gili Air for 3 nights/2 days, Senggigi (Lombok) for 2 nights, and finally 5 nights in Kuta. I’m considering cutting the 2 nights in Senggigi to just keep Kuta and extend it to 7 nights. In Lombok, I’m not sure how to get around since I’m not comfortable with scooters... Your thoughts on all of this, and any advice, are more than welcome—don’t hesitate!
For those wondering why cities like Jakarta and Surabaya: we don’t often get the chance to visit big Asian cities, so we wanted to include that discovery in our trip. The trains between Jakarta and Yogyakarta, Surabaya and Probolinggo are booked. The return flight from Lombok to Jakarta is also set. Accommodations are booked but flexible (same for the trains).
Thanks!
For those wondering why cities like Jakarta and Surabaya: we don’t often get the chance to visit big Asian cities, so we wanted to include that discovery in our trip. The trains between Jakarta and Yogyakarta, Surabaya and Probolinggo are booked. The return flight from Lombok to Jakarta is also set. Accommodations are booked but flexible (same for the trains).
Thanks!
hi
I’ll be on a cruise on January 11, 2027. We’re stopping in Ho Chi Minh City (Phu My).
I’d love to see something other than the city—anyone have recommendations or a guide for 6-8 people with pickup at the port?
I’d really like to visit some rice paddies.
I’ll be on a cruise on January 11, 2027. We’re stopping in Ho Chi Minh City (Phu My).
I’d love to see something other than the city—anyone have recommendations or a guide for 6-8 people with pickup at the port?
I’d really like to visit some rice paddies.
Hi there,
I’m spending 4 days in Kuala Lumpur.
Could you let me know what’s absolutely worth visiting and what’s not really worth the effort?
Any suggested itinerary?
Apart from Batu Caves, I don’t have many ideas...
I’m traveling with my partner and our 16-year-old son.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
I’m spending 4 days in Kuala Lumpur.
Could you let me know what’s absolutely worth visiting and what’s not really worth the effort?
Any suggested itinerary?
Apart from Batu Caves, I don’t have many ideas...
I’m traveling with my partner and our 16-year-old son.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Hi,
After our trip to China, we want to spend a week in the Philippines for some beach time and snorkeling.
We're looking for the best spot to settle in—nice beaches, great marine life, and short transfer times.
Thanks for your suggestions!
Hi there,
Does anyone know of a private transfer or taxi company that organizes transfers from the Sukhothai area to Chiang Mai? Our routes are Sukhothai-Lampang, Lampang-Chom Thong, and Chom Thong-Chiang Mai. My searches on Google Maps, 12Go, and others haven’t turned up much...
For our Bangkok-Sukhothai trips, I use a company I’ve already tried, but they don’t have a fleet available from Sukhothai and have to go through third-party companies—which, understandably, take their commission. This nearly doubles the prices...
There are four of us, and we’re not traveling light, so a minibus isn’t an option. ;-)
Thanks for your tips! DrSnuggle
Does anyone know of a private transfer or taxi company that organizes transfers from the Sukhothai area to Chiang Mai? Our routes are Sukhothai-Lampang, Lampang-Chom Thong, and Chom Thong-Chiang Mai. My searches on Google Maps, 12Go, and others haven’t turned up much...
For our Bangkok-Sukhothai trips, I use a company I’ve already tried, but they don’t have a fleet available from Sukhothai and have to go through third-party companies—which, understandably, take their commission. This nearly doubles the prices...
There are four of us, and we’re not traveling light, so a minibus isn’t an option. ;-)
Thanks for your tips! DrSnuggle
Hello,
While traveling in Thailand, I’m looking for a Buddhist kumlai reed bracelet.
Does anyone know where I can find one?
In Bangkok, I visited a few temples but didn’t see any in the nearby shops.
If you have any ideas, I’d love to hear them! Have a great day! :-)
Hi there
My trip’s coming up, and I’m having a bit of trouble with three bus/minivan routes. Usually, I find everything at this time of year, but this time—yikes!
Sandakan → Sepilok: No app for this one—you just hop on bus #14 at the local terminal (pay cash on board). But where do I catch it, and where’s the stop??
Sandakan → Semporna: From what I’ve heard, it’s the Sida Express company (great name, right? 😄). Can’t book online, but apparently, you *have* to because there’s only one bus at 8 AM. Where do I board, and where does it drop me off?
Semporna → Tawau: Found this via AI—is it legit? No online booking, as far as I can tell. Minivans leave from a stop in the Jalan Hospital area, near the Milimewa supermarket, supposedly???? And when you arrive, does it drop you at **Sabindo Square** in Tawau?????
Thanks for any tips—I’m stuck!
My trip’s coming up, and I’m having a bit of trouble with three bus/minivan routes. Usually, I find everything at this time of year, but this time—yikes!
Sandakan → Sepilok: No app for this one—you just hop on bus #14 at the local terminal (pay cash on board). But where do I catch it, and where’s the stop??
Sandakan → Semporna: From what I’ve heard, it’s the Sida Express company (great name, right? 😄). Can’t book online, but apparently, you *have* to because there’s only one bus at 8 AM. Where do I board, and where does it drop me off?
Semporna → Tawau: Found this via AI—is it legit? No online booking, as far as I can tell. Minivans leave from a stop in the Jalan Hospital area, near the Milimewa supermarket, supposedly???? And when you arrive, does it drop you at **Sabindo Square** in Tawau?????
Thanks for any tips—I’m stuck!
Hi there,
we’ll be in Mai Chau in June and we’re thinking of heading to Sapa, but first spending a few days in Bac Ha to do some hiking and explore the area.
Is this a good idea for those who’ve been there?
How do you get there?
Thanks for your feedback.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Cédric.
Hi everyone. As I’m planning my trip for next winter, I’m looking for hotel suggestions in Camotes, Bantayan, Malapascua, Bohol, and Siquijor. The ones I had in mind seem to be fully booked (unless it’s too early?). For those familiar with the area, is it easy to find accommodations on the spot in January/February? I’m specifically looking for hotels with a pool, beachfront, air conditioning, and easy scooter rental nearby. Thanks for your tips!
Hi there,
I’m planning an itinerary and would love some feedback on whether it’s doable and if the number of days per destination is enough—or too much. I was also debating whether to add an extra night on an island or spend an extra night in Kampot to visit Kep or Battambang.
March 23: Arrival in Phnom Penh in the morning March 24: Phnom Penh March 25: Phnom Penh March 26: Depart for Kampot March 27: Kampot March 28: Depart for Battambang March 29: Battambang March 30: Tonlé SAP to Siem Reap March 31: Siem Reap April 1: Siem Reap April 2: Siem Reap April 3: Siem Reap April 4: Siem Reap April 5: Departure
Thanks for any suggestions or help!
March 23: Arrival in Phnom Penh in the morning March 24: Phnom Penh March 25: Phnom Penh March 26: Depart for Kampot March 27: Kampot March 28: Depart for Battambang March 29: Battambang March 30: Tonlé SAP to Siem Reap March 31: Siem Reap April 1: Siem Reap April 2: Siem Reap April 3: Siem Reap April 4: Siem Reap April 5: Departure
Thanks for any suggestions or help!
Hi there,
Yesterday in the Thailand section, 100% of the new threads were just about beach destinations 😕...
So here’s the counterattack in the form of this photo thread, dedicated solely to the countryside: the locals, their livestock, fields, farms, rice paddies, small rivers, and agricultural machinery. If you’ve got any pictures that fit these categories, feel free to add them!
Comments welcome.
For each photo, I’ll (or you can) indicate the area where it was taken.
Kanchanaburi:
Kanchanaburi:
Sri Chiangmai:
Soppong:
Tha Wang Pha:
Kanchanaburi:

Kanchanaburi:

Sri Chiangmai:

Soppong:

Tha Wang Pha:

🙂 Hi everyone!
Hope you're all doing well! It's been a while since I last traveled, but I'm finally heading out again soon!
For those familiar with SOUTHEAST ASIA, I'm planning to leave in mid-June (with the trip ending at the latest in November), and I don’t have a precise idea of exact places or itineraries yet. The thing is, this period is usually the rainy season...
Any advice? I was thinking of Malaysia or Indonesia, like Sulawesi, for example (all countries and islands in Southeast Asia interest me except Bali).
Any recommendations? I’m doing my research online, but if anyone here has the time and knowledge, I’d love to hear from you.
Thanks everyone, take care and stay happy! ❤️
Hope you're all doing well! It's been a while since I last traveled, but I'm finally heading out again soon!
For those familiar with SOUTHEAST ASIA, I'm planning to leave in mid-June (with the trip ending at the latest in November), and I don’t have a precise idea of exact places or itineraries yet. The thing is, this period is usually the rainy season...
Any advice? I was thinking of Malaysia or Indonesia, like Sulawesi, for example (all countries and islands in Southeast Asia interest me except Bali).
Any recommendations? I’m doing my research online, but if anyone here has the time and knowledge, I’d love to hear from you.
Thanks everyone, take care and stay happy! ❤️
Hi there,
My partner and I are planning a trip to Indonesia in September-October 2026. It’ll be our first time in Asia, and we’re thinking of hitting the classic spots in East Java and Bali, then wrapping up with a cruise around Komodo for some snorkeling/diving. Here’s a rough draft of our itinerary—I’m wondering if it’s doable.
20/09: Flight from Jakarta to Yogyakarta, arrive around noon, afternoon/evening and overnight in Yogyakarta. 21/09: Borobudur 22/09: Prambanan 23/09: Travel to Bromo (Cemoro Lawang) 24/09: Bromo 25/09: Kawa Ijen 26/09: Travel to Bali, overnight in Pemuteran 27/09: Excursion to Pulau Melujan, overnight in Pemuteran 28/09: Travel to Munduk, overnight in Munduk 29/09: Explore Munduk and surroundings, overnight in Munduk 30/09: Explore Munduk and surroundings, overnight in Munduk 01/10: Route to Ubud (via Pura Ulu Danau Bratan, Jatiluwih?), overnight in Ubud 02/10: Explore Ubud and surroundings, overnight in Ubud 03/10: Explore Ubud and surroundings, overnight in Ubud 04/10: Travel to Denpasar, flight to Labuan Bajo, overnight in Labuan Bajo 05/10: Komodo cruise 06/10: Komodo cruise 07/10: Komodo cruise, flight to Denpasar in the late afternoon/evening or overnight in Labuan Bajo. 08/10: Flight to Denpasar (if not taken the day before), afternoon in Jimbaran, overnight near Denpasar 09/10: 10:00 AM flight Denpasar - SIN, overnight in Singapore 10/10: Flight SIN-YQB
Thanks for your thoughts—and for your time!
My partner and I are planning a trip to Indonesia in September-October 2026. It’ll be our first time in Asia, and we’re thinking of hitting the classic spots in East Java and Bali, then wrapping up with a cruise around Komodo for some snorkeling/diving. Here’s a rough draft of our itinerary—I’m wondering if it’s doable.
20/09: Flight from Jakarta to Yogyakarta, arrive around noon, afternoon/evening and overnight in Yogyakarta. 21/09: Borobudur 22/09: Prambanan 23/09: Travel to Bromo (Cemoro Lawang) 24/09: Bromo 25/09: Kawa Ijen 26/09: Travel to Bali, overnight in Pemuteran 27/09: Excursion to Pulau Melujan, overnight in Pemuteran 28/09: Travel to Munduk, overnight in Munduk 29/09: Explore Munduk and surroundings, overnight in Munduk 30/09: Explore Munduk and surroundings, overnight in Munduk 01/10: Route to Ubud (via Pura Ulu Danau Bratan, Jatiluwih?), overnight in Ubud 02/10: Explore Ubud and surroundings, overnight in Ubud 03/10: Explore Ubud and surroundings, overnight in Ubud 04/10: Travel to Denpasar, flight to Labuan Bajo, overnight in Labuan Bajo 05/10: Komodo cruise 06/10: Komodo cruise 07/10: Komodo cruise, flight to Denpasar in the late afternoon/evening or overnight in Labuan Bajo. 08/10: Flight to Denpasar (if not taken the day before), afternoon in Jimbaran, overnight near Denpasar 09/10: 10:00 AM flight Denpasar - SIN, overnight in Singapore 10/10: Flight SIN-YQB
Thanks for your thoughts—and for your time!
Hi everyone,
My girlfriend and I booked our tickets with Saudia Airlines for a trip to Thailand this summer, from July 5th to August 3rd. Given the geopolitical situation in the Middle East, we’re keeping a close eye on the news.
I was wondering if anyone here is in the same situation as us?
• Have you heard anything about possible mass cancellations or if the airline is still maintaining its routes to Asia?
• Are there any travelers who’ve recently returned who could tell us if air corridors have been changed (longer flight times)?
The idea is to know what to expect so we can prepare as best as possible. Thanks for your replies! !
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all your contributions on the forum—they’ve really helped me plan my trip. There are four of us friends heading to Sulawesi for 20 days. Based on all your advice, I’ve put together the following itinerary:
July 30: Makassar – sightseeing July 31: Makassar – sightseeing + overnight bus to Rantepao August 1–7: Tana Toraja with a guide August 7: Tana Toraja to Tentena + visit Tentena August 8: Early departure with a private driver to Ampana, then ferry to the Togian Islands August 9–15: Togian Islands (2 different resorts) August 15: Depart Togian Islands for Luwuk August 16: Flight Luwuk to Makassar August 17: Rammang Rammang August 18: Stroll in Makassar, then return home
Overall, what do you think?
I also have a question about the connection between Tentena and the Togian Islands: Is it doable to leave early in the morning as planned and still be sure not to miss the ferry?
Thanks in advance for your feedback! :)
Thanks for all your contributions on the forum—they’ve really helped me plan my trip. There are four of us friends heading to Sulawesi for 20 days. Based on all your advice, I’ve put together the following itinerary:
July 30: Makassar – sightseeing July 31: Makassar – sightseeing + overnight bus to Rantepao August 1–7: Tana Toraja with a guide August 7: Tana Toraja to Tentena + visit Tentena August 8: Early departure with a private driver to Ampana, then ferry to the Togian Islands August 9–15: Togian Islands (2 different resorts) August 15: Depart Togian Islands for Luwuk August 16: Flight Luwuk to Makassar August 17: Rammang Rammang August 18: Stroll in Makassar, then return home
Overall, what do you think?
I also have a question about the connection between Tentena and the Togian Islands: Is it doable to leave early in the morning as planned and still be sure not to miss the ferry?
Thanks in advance for your feedback! :)
Hi everyone,
I’m currently working on a 30-day itinerary for May/June 2027.
10 days in eastern Java (Malang, Bromo, waterfalls, Meru Beriti Park, Banyuwangi, and Ijen), a short transit in Ubud for a few days, then Flores before heading back to Jakarta.
We’ll spend 15 days in Flores (the classic route: Moni, Bajawa, Riung, Ruteng, ending in Labuan Bajo).
I’d love some firsthand feedback on flights to Maumere or Ende from Bali Denpasar. I know there are no direct routes and that you have to connect through Labuan Bajo or Timor (I think), which isn’t an issue in itself.
But I’ve read here and there that flights to these destinations can be delayed—or worse, canceled—and that it’s better to fly in and out of Labuan Bajo, which isn’t exactly ideal...
Thanks for any tips or experiences you can share!