Nous préparons notre voyage pour octobre 2017 !! (oui c'est encore loin- mais le préparer c'est déjà des vacances) nous serions intéressés par les chutes de Ban Gioc, mais je n'arrive pas à me faire une opinion ? Y aura t il encore de l'eau en octobre ? Cette étape en vaut elle la chandelle ? (même sans eau ?) merci pour vos réponses bon voyages à tous Eric
Chutes de Ban Gioc (Vietnam)
by Ericat
This discussion is in French, the community’s main language.
Original post
Bonjour,
Nous préparons notre voyage pour octobre 2017 !! (oui c'est encore loin- mais le préparer c'est déjà des vacances) nous serions intéressés par les chutes de Ban Gioc, mais je n'arrive pas à me faire une opinion ? Y aura t il encore de l'eau en octobre ? Cette étape en vaut elle la chandelle ? (même sans eau ?) merci pour vos réponses bon voyages à tous Eric
Nous préparons notre voyage pour octobre 2017 !! (oui c'est encore loin- mais le préparer c'est déjà des vacances) nous serions intéressés par les chutes de Ban Gioc, mais je n'arrive pas à me faire une opinion ? Y aura t il encore de l'eau en octobre ? Cette étape en vaut elle la chandelle ? (même sans eau ?) merci pour vos réponses bon voyages à tous Eric
Salut Eric
C'est encore une période de fortes eaux, donc, elles sont assez impressionnantes, les chutes. Le ballet des Vietnamiens qui vendent sur les radeaux des cigarettes aux Chinois d'en face est assez rigolo, et, pour un prix bas, prenez un radeau pour passer au plus près. Sur la route, depuis Cao Bang, de très grandes noria (il faut avoir l'oeil) , vous traversez le pays Nung où on forge du métal de récupération, et dans certains villages de forgerons on pratique l'hébergement "chez l'habitant". Très beaux paysages, et, au passage - Thong Thué est intéressant : marché les 2, 7, 12, 17, 22, 28 lunaires
Bons préparatifs
Bons préparatifs
Bonjour,
Bonjour,
nous serions intéressés par les chutes de Ban Gioc, mais je n'arrive pas à me faire une opinion ? Y aura t il encore de l'eau en octobre ? Cette étape en vaut elle la chandelle ? (même sans eau ?)
Eric
Je suis allé (en vélo) aux chutes d'eau de Ban Gioc en février 2013 (donc en période de basses eaux) et cela vaut franchement le coup
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/les-chutes-deau-de-ban-gioc-dam-thuy.html
Depuis un hôtel resort aurait été construit du côté vietnamien à l'entrée des chutes d'eau.
Cordialement Quynh
Bonjour,
nous serions intéressés par les chutes de Ban Gioc, mais je n'arrive pas à me faire une opinion ? Y aura t il encore de l'eau en octobre ? Cette étape en vaut elle la chandelle ? (même sans eau ?)
Eric
Je suis allé (en vélo) aux chutes d'eau de Ban Gioc en février 2013 (donc en période de basses eaux) et cela vaut franchement le coup
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/les-chutes-deau-de-ban-gioc-dam-thuy.html
Depuis un hôtel resort aurait été construit du côté vietnamien à l'entrée des chutes d'eau.
Cordialement Quynh
Vu Do Quynh (Hanoi, Vietnam)
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/
Bonjour Jean Pierre
Merci pour ce renseignement concernant ce marché de Thong Thué . Hélas je n'arrive pas à le situer sur mes cartes . Avez vous SVP plus de précisions? J'avais déjà repéré celui de Trung Khanh mais pas celui cité. A défaut Miss "trouve tout" va m'envoyer l'itinéraire !! Merci d'avance . Bonne journée Eric
Merci pour ce renseignement concernant ce marché de Thong Thué . Hélas je n'arrive pas à le situer sur mes cartes . Avez vous SVP plus de précisions? J'avais déjà repéré celui de Trung Khanh mais pas celui cité. A défaut Miss "trouve tout" va m'envoyer l'itinéraire !! Merci d'avance . Bonne journée Eric
HENON Eric
En fait, après vérification, le village est marqué Thong Huê. En venant de Cao Bang, il est plus petit que Trùng Khành, je dirais une quinzaine de kilomêtres, à vue de nez. A ce moment là, la route 206 traverse une rivière (très belle vue), le marché est sur la droite, dans le village. Ce que j'aime ce sont aussi les façades des maisons.
Trùng Khanh est aussi un superbe marché, beaucoup plus important. Je n'ai pas noté les dates, comme c'est un district, sans doute le dimanche.
Je m'arrête souvent à Thong Hué, car c'est le surlendemain du marché de Bao Lac (5, 10...etc) et le lendemain de celui de Hung Dao (6, 11...etc). Ça me fait des arrêts sympas.....très sympas.
Bonnes recherches,
Il y a toujours de l'eau et la route pour y aller est magnifique. Vous pouvez faire :
Jour 1 Hanoi-lac Babe (nuit en maison d'hotes à Pac Noi) J 2 Très belle balade bateau lac + rivìere Nang (tunnel + chutes de Dau dang) J 3 Babe-Cao bang J 4 Chutes et superbe grotte de Ngom Ngao J 5 CB-Hanoi
Jour 1 Hanoi-lac Babe (nuit en maison d'hotes à Pac Noi) J 2 Très belle balade bateau lac + rivìere Nang (tunnel + chutes de Dau dang) J 3 Babe-Cao bang J 4 Chutes et superbe grotte de Ngom Ngao J 5 CB-Hanoi
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Bonjour ,
Cela vaut le coup de s'y rendre meme si le débit n'est pas élevé car la route pour y aller offre de beaux paysages rappelant la baie d' Halong terrestre vers Ninh Binh . En arrivant , il faut aller acheter un billet d'entrée avant d'emprunter à pied la piste qui y mène. D'un coté le Vietnam , et sur la rive de l'autre coté avec falaises : la Chine à meme pas 50m.
Au retour vous pouvez vous arreter à des grottes que visitent les touristes locaux . Ensuite prendre un itinéraire different pour rentrer sur CaoBang , piste carrossable passant au milieu des pitons . ( Si Larsay nous lit , il pourra donner plus d'informations sur cet itinéraire qu' il m'avait tracé )
Bonne route Jean
Cela vaut le coup de s'y rendre meme si le débit n'est pas élevé car la route pour y aller offre de beaux paysages rappelant la baie d' Halong terrestre vers Ninh Binh . En arrivant , il faut aller acheter un billet d'entrée avant d'emprunter à pied la piste qui y mène. D'un coté le Vietnam , et sur la rive de l'autre coté avec falaises : la Chine à meme pas 50m.
Au retour vous pouvez vous arreter à des grottes que visitent les touristes locaux . Ensuite prendre un itinéraire different pour rentrer sur CaoBang , piste carrossable passant au milieu des pitons . ( Si Larsay nous lit , il pourra donner plus d'informations sur cet itinéraire qu' il m'avait tracé )
Bonne route Jean
En fait, la frontière passe au milieu des chutes et de la rivière, donc moitié des deux au Vietnam et moitié en Chine.
On peut y aller par la route 206 Cao Bang-Quang Uyen-Trung Khanh-Ban Gioc et rentrer par la 207 Bang Ca (c'est là où se trouvait l'infame "Camp No 1", un mourroir des officiers français prisonniers à Cao Bang en oct 1950 et à Dien Bien en mai 1954)-Dong Deng (Ha Lang)-Quang Uyen-CB
On peut y aller par la route 206 Cao Bang-Quang Uyen-Trung Khanh-Ban Gioc et rentrer par la 207 Bang Ca (c'est là où se trouvait l'infame "Camp No 1", un mourroir des officiers français prisonniers à Cao Bang en oct 1950 et à Dien Bien en mai 1954)-Dong Deng (Ha Lang)-Quang Uyen-CB
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Voilà!
Et, il est sur la liste fournie il y a quelques mois😉
goo.gl/maps/4F1eZ3uTjoH2
Pour Jean Pierre: Après vérification (et correction)...il se trouve qu'il y a 2 Trùng Khánh, Celui de Rò tấu ( Trùng Khánh) se situe vers Cao Bang - Jour 1 et 6 lunaires Le 2° vers Bảo Lạc, Trùng Khánh, Bản Giốc Jour 5 et 10 lunaires
Pour Jean Pierre: Après vérification (et correction)...il se trouve qu'il y a 2 Trùng Khánh, Celui de Rò tấu ( Trùng Khánh) se situe vers Cao Bang - Jour 1 et 6 lunaires Le 2° vers Bảo Lạc, Trùng Khánh, Bản Giốc Jour 5 et 10 lunaires
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
J'y étais passé, à Trung Khanh (Ban Gioc), il y a 8 ou 9 ans et vous me faites penser que le marché était important et intéressant. Il va falloir que j'y retourne voir. D'autant plus qu'à Thong Huê, ce sont surtout les maisons que j'aime bien.
Cela m'obligera à coucher chez les forgerons.
Merci Asia pour cette précision.
Aller à Ban Gioc est toujours intéressant, mais si on peut choisir, elles sont plus chouettes après septembre, non? Avant, on tombait le pantalon et on plongeait pour aller en Chine......On allait un peu plus loin que le milieu et on revenait dare dare......Maintenant vous pouvez louer un radeau et vous défilez près des chutes avec les radeaux Chinois.
Aller à Ban Gioc est toujours intéressant, mais si on peut choisir, elles sont plus chouettes après septembre, non? Avant, on tombait le pantalon et on plongeait pour aller en Chine......On allait un peu plus loin que le milieu et on revenait dare dare......Maintenant vous pouvez louer un radeau et vous défilez près des chutes avec les radeaux Chinois.
Bonjour, bonsoir Jean Pierre
Les chutes ne m'ont pas laissé un souvenir impérissable.... Je n'y ai vu qu'un filet d'eau (bon, j'exagère un peu😉) il faut vraiment bien choisir son moment et je préfère la partie vietnamienne , le petit 1/3 que je trouve "romantique" (c'est mon coté fleur bleue qui parle) à la partie chinoise. Quand aux radeaux on ne peut dire que ce soit la grosse expédition, j'aurais trouvé plus amusant le plongeons et le retour fissa..😏. Par conte les villages des forgerons et les marchés alors là OUI je suis fane!
Les chutes ne m'ont pas laissé un souvenir impérissable.... Je n'y ai vu qu'un filet d'eau (bon, j'exagère un peu😉) il faut vraiment bien choisir son moment et je préfère la partie vietnamienne , le petit 1/3 que je trouve "romantique" (c'est mon coté fleur bleue qui parle) à la partie chinoise. Quand aux radeaux on ne peut dire que ce soit la grosse expédition, j'aurais trouvé plus amusant le plongeons et le retour fissa..😏. Par conte les villages des forgerons et les marchés alors là OUI je suis fane!
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Bonjour Jean Pierre
Merci de ces précisions . effectivement cela est tentant de faire ces 3 marchés en 3 jours et combiné Trung Khan éventuellement.
A vous lire sur d'autres bons plans.
Eric
Miss Trouve tout m'a rappelé à l'ordre comme je m'y attendais ...mais nous a fourni les détails😏
Miss Trouve tout m'a rappelé à l'ordre comme je m'y attendais ...mais nous a fourni les détails😏
HENON Eric
Bonjour Miss Trouve Tout
Merci pour ces précisions car j'ai du mal classer ces marchés . Je vais demander une leçon car près de Bao Lac marché de Trung Khanh , Ban Gioc !!!! Je ne situe pas Bao Lac près de Ban Gioc !!! Je vais ressortir ma vieille carte d'Etat Major de 1950 en espérant que les noms n'aient pas été modifiés !!! Bonne journée et encore merci Eric
Merci pour ces précisions car j'ai du mal classer ces marchés . Je vais demander une leçon car près de Bao Lac marché de Trung Khanh , Ban Gioc !!!! Je ne situe pas Bao Lac près de Ban Gioc !!! Je vais ressortir ma vieille carte d'Etat Major de 1950 en espérant que les noms n'aient pas été modifiés !!! Bonne journée et encore merci Eric
HENON Eric
Pas la peine de fouiller dans vos vieilles cartes, je me suis mal expliquée
Voici donc le tracé:
https://goo.gl/maps/nNQrS8RALX72
Le premier petit marché de Trùng Khánh appelé aujourd'hui Po Tau se trouve aux portes de Cao Bang , jours de marchés: Jour 1 et 6 lunaire Le deuxième Trùng Khánh est entre Cao Bang et Ban Gioc, jours de marchés: Jour 5 et 10 lunaire, comme celui de Bao Lac d'où la confusion.
Le premier petit marché de Trùng Khánh appelé aujourd'hui Po Tau se trouve aux portes de Cao Bang , jours de marchés: Jour 1 et 6 lunaire Le deuxième Trùng Khánh est entre Cao Bang et Ban Gioc, jours de marchés: Jour 5 et 10 lunaire, comme celui de Bao Lac d'où la confusion.
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Bonjour,
Nous y sommes allés en mai 2014. Le niveau de l'eau était peu élevé. Nous avons quand même apprécié cet endroit et la route qui y méne avec un arrêt aux intéressantes grottes de Nguom Ngao. Sur notre blog clique ici pour voir détails et photos.
Bonne journée Michèle

Nous y sommes allés en mai 2014. Le niveau de l'eau était peu élevé. Nous avons quand même apprécié cet endroit et la route qui y méne avec un arrêt aux intéressantes grottes de Nguom Ngao. Sur notre blog clique ici pour voir détails et photos.
Bonne journée Michèle

Michèle
http://mjm-nosvoyages.blogspot.fr/ Ethopie 2020-Birmanie 2017-New York 2015-Sicile 2015-Ouest américain 2015/16/17/18/19 - Madrid/Barcelone - Cinq Terre 2017-Prague 2018-Venise 2019
http://surlarouteasiatique.blogspot.fr/ 2014 : périple de 9 mois Cambodge, Laos, Vietnam et ouest Américain
Personnellement, je pense que les chutes de Ban Gioc ne valent pas le coup. La route est trop longue et difficile. Sur les photos, les chutes sont magnifiques mais en realité, j'en ai été decue. Le nord du Vietnam a beaucoup d'autres sites plus magnifiques.
Bonjour Ericat ;
Nous on prépare notre voyage pour Juillet 17.
Il y a des bus locaux qui partent de Hanoi à Cao Bang ( gare de My Dinh sation lien My Dinh bus station ). Mais savez vous comment faire pour vous rendre à la chute de là bas. Peut-on contacter uen agence de voyage ou est ce facile de faire seuls ? Si quelqu' un pouvait m'éclairer ?
MERCI
Bonjour Ericat ;
Nous on prépare notre voyage pour Juillet 17.
Il y a des bus locaux qui partent de Hanoi à Cao Bang ( gare de My Dinh sation lien My Dinh bus station ). Mais savez vous comment faire pour vous rendre à la chute de là bas. Peut-on contacter uen agence de voyage ou est ce facile de faire seuls ? Si quelqu' un pouvait m'éclairer ?
MERCI
à partir de la gare routière de Cao Bang, il y a une liaison par microbus (15 places, en général) vers Trùng Khanh, le chef lieu du district éponyme (distance environ 50 km), et peut-être même directement jusqu'au village de Dam Thuy, où l'on peut trouver des guesthouses à 15 minutes à pied du site des chutes d'eau. Sinon, de Trung Khanh, il y a en principe un servicede minibus (12 places) vers les chutes d'eau de Ban gioc qui coûttait aux alentours de 20-25.000 VND par personne en 2013.
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/de-quang-uyen-trung-khanh-et-dam-thuy.html
Il devrait aussi être possible de prendre un taxi ou des motos-taxis (distance 25 km). http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/les-chutes-deau-de-ban-gioc-dam-thuy.html
Début 2013 il y avait des travaux sur la route entre Trung Khanh et Ban Gioc. Ils doivent être terminés maintenant.
Cordialement Quynh
à partir de la gare routière de Cao Bang, il y a une liaison par microbus (15 places, en général) vers Trùng Khanh, le chef lieu du district éponyme (distance environ 50 km), et peut-être même directement jusqu'au village de Dam Thuy, où l'on peut trouver des guesthouses à 15 minutes à pied du site des chutes d'eau. Sinon, de Trung Khanh, il y a en principe un servicede minibus (12 places) vers les chutes d'eau de Ban gioc qui coûttait aux alentours de 20-25.000 VND par personne en 2013.
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/de-quang-uyen-trung-khanh-et-dam-thuy.html
Il devrait aussi être possible de prendre un taxi ou des motos-taxis (distance 25 km). http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/2013/03/les-chutes-deau-de-ban-gioc-dam-thuy.html
Début 2013 il y avait des travaux sur la route entre Trung Khanh et Ban Gioc. Ils doivent être terminés maintenant.
Cordialement Quynh
Vu Do Quynh (Hanoi, Vietnam)
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/
C'est la meilleur solution. Je ne connais pas d'agence à Cao Bang, mais ça ne doit pas etre duifficiel à trouver dans la rue principale avant ou après le pont; sinon demandez à votre hotel (le Huong Sen est très bien)
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Bonjour
Pour information, nous étions en mars 2016 à Cao Ban pour aller voir les chutes, et pour la première fois au Vietnam nous avons eu beaucoup de difficultés à trouver une agence ou quelque. chose de similaire. Après une journée de recherche nous avons questionné la réception du vieux et grand hôtel au centre au coin du pont, la jeune réceptionniste avait un ami avec une voiture.......et le lendemain il nous a emmenés...pour communiquer nous passions par téléphone par la jeune femme !ce fut très sympa et le lendemain il nous a transportés à la grotte de Ho Chi Minh.
Avec un peu de persévérance on y arrive ! et c'est agréable
Bon séjour
Andre69
Bonjour André
En préparation d'un futur séjour de 3 semaines dans le nord Vietnam, nous avions pensé à nos rendre à Cao Bang pour y admirer ces fameuses chutes.
Y aurait il d'autres endroits autour de Cao Bang à admirer et découvrir pour au moins "amortir" le long trajet aller-retour depuis Hanoi?
Villages, paysages ?
Merci
Bonsoir
Sur la route Hanoi - Cao Bang , l'ancienne RC4 ou ancienne route sanglante , devenue un dame en 1950 il faut surtout être passionnée d'histoire pour l'apprécier . Il y a quelques beaux paysages quand même !autour de Cao Bang il y a aussi des marchés en allant un peu au nord vers la Chine. Po Tau , Tra Linh, Trung Khanh etc.. sinon le Lac Babé à l'ouest /Sud Ouest, 126km 3h20 de route. Possibilité de nuits chez l'habitant, balade en bateau sur le lac, grottes , petite chute d'eau , possibilité randonnées . Les visiteurs aiment cette étape en général . Tout dépend du temps que vous avez. Bonne préparation Eric
Sur la route Hanoi - Cao Bang , l'ancienne RC4 ou ancienne route sanglante , devenue un dame en 1950 il faut surtout être passionnée d'histoire pour l'apprécier . Il y a quelques beaux paysages quand même !autour de Cao Bang il y a aussi des marchés en allant un peu au nord vers la Chine. Po Tau , Tra Linh, Trung Khanh etc.. sinon le Lac Babé à l'ouest /Sud Ouest, 126km 3h20 de route. Possibilité de nuits chez l'habitant, balade en bateau sur le lac, grottes , petite chute d'eau , possibilité randonnées . Les visiteurs aiment cette étape en général . Tout dépend du temps que vous avez. Bonne préparation Eric
HENON Eric
Très recommandé car c'est superbe
Jour 1 ; Hanoi-BABE (village tay de Pac Ngoi - maison d'hote de M. DUY THO) Jour 2 : Bateau lac et rivìere Nang -grotte et cascade de Dau Dang; très belle journée !) Jour 3 ; Pac Ngoi-Cho Ra-Cao Bang Jour 4 : Chutes de Ban Gioc Jour 5 : Pac Ngoi-Halong OU vous continuez sur Bao Lac, Meo Vac, Dong Van et Ha Giang
Jour 1 ; Hanoi-BABE (village tay de Pac Ngoi - maison d'hote de M. DUY THO) Jour 2 : Bateau lac et rivìere Nang -grotte et cascade de Dau Dang; très belle journée !) Jour 3 ; Pac Ngoi-Cho Ra-Cao Bang Jour 4 : Chutes de Ban Gioc Jour 5 : Pac Ngoi-Halong OU vous continuez sur Bao Lac, Meo Vac, Dong Van et Ha Giang
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Bonjour,
Sur la route qui conduit à Ban Gioc , à 36 km de Cao Bang, vous avez un village Nung, village des forgerons de Phuc Sen.
C'est un très vieux village d, environ 400 familles qui possèdent toutes ou presque leur propre forge.
Les Nungs sont une des 54 ethnies minoritaire du Vietnam, les habitants de Phuc Sen ont conservé leurs habits traditionnels et leur coutumes ancestrales.
Renseignez vous à Cao Bang, je pense qu'il y a une maison d'hôte dans ce village, quand j'y suis passée elle était en prévision.....ils avaient installé les sanitaires....MAIS en attente de branchement😉.
https://goo.gl/maps/AdGYjUtLFFM2 http://www.vietnamtourism.com/en/index.php/about/items/1763
https://goo.gl/maps/AdGYjUtLFFM2 http://www.vietnamtourism.com/en/index.php/about/items/1763
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Bon à savoir !
J'ai toujours eu un problème avec le 54 minorités. En effet, ce chiffre inclue les Khin, qui ne sont autres que les Viet, la grande majorité de la population. D'ailleurs, l'excellent petit fascicule "Ethinc Minorities in Vietnam", édité par The Gioi, en liste bien 53 et non 54
J'ai toujours eu un problème avec le 54 minorités. En effet, ce chiffre inclue les Khin, qui ne sont autres que les Viet, la grande majorité de la population. D'ailleurs, l'excellent petit fascicule "Ethinc Minorities in Vietnam", édité par The Gioi, en liste bien 53 et non 54
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Bonjour ,
Pour moi Il a bien 54 ethnies dont les Kinh, 53 sont minoritaires. Les Kinh ont du mal a accepter cette appartenance au 54 ethnies.
L'ethnie Kinh , nom officiel, représentant la majorité de la population, issue en partie comme les autres ethnies de migrations, là chinoise mais beaucoup plus ancienne (258 ans avant notre ère). Le Vietnam a été peuplée dès le Néolithique par des populations d'origine indonésienne et malaise, ancêtres des populations montagnardes moï ou Muong; à l'âge de bronze, sont arrivées du Nord des populations chinoises qui se sont fondues avec celles qui étaient déjà sur place pour constituer le peuple viêt - Kinh,
Sur l'édition revue et corrigée de 2010 elle est bien référencée sur la liste nomenclature des ethnies page 277, l'ethnie kinh est y est classée - langue austro asiatique - groupe Viet Muong page 12. Aucun chapitre ne leur est cependant consacré mais dans l'introduction il y fait allusion à plusieurs reprises.
Nguyen Van Huy chef de projet du musée ethnologique et son équipe de chercheurs dans Mosaïque culturel des ethnies du Vietnam la classifie également ethnie parmi les 54 sans là non plus lui consacrer un chapitre....
Les Kinh ou encore les Viet, parlent le vietnamien, une langue appartenant à la famille austro-asiatique. Le professeur Bui Xuan Dinh, de l’Institut des sciences sociales du Vietnam :
"Les Kinh, ou les Viet, font partie du groupe Lac Viet. Celui-ci appartient au grand bloc Bach Viet, lequel se compose de plusieurs ethnies. Chaque groupe possède son propre territoire. Les ancêtres des Kinh ont été à l’origine de diverses cultures : Phung Nguyên, Go Mun, Dong Dau ou encore Dong Son. Ils pratiquaient essentiellement la riziculture inondée et l’artisanat, comme en témoigne par exemple les tambours de bronze de Dong Son." Au départ, les Kinh demeuraient principalement dans les régions septentrionales et les deltas du Nord. Puis, à partir du 11ème siècle, ils ont entamé une expansion progressive qui les a d’abord poussés vers le Centre, puis vers le Sud, toujours à la recherche de nouvelles terres à défricher. A l’orée du 20ème siècle, lorsque les français ont commencé à implanter de grands centres urbains dans le Nord-Ouest et sur les Hauts-Plateaux du Centre, ils ont été nombreux à y affluer.
Très vite, où qu’ils soient, les Kinh s’adaptent aux mœurs et aux coutumes locales. Pas étonnant, dès lors, qu’ils réussissent à cohabiter aussi harmonieusement avec des monorités ethniques auxquelles ils apportent leur savoir-faire. Bui Xuan Dinh : "Les Kinh forment un seul bloc. Lorsqu’ils parcourent de nouvelles régions, ils doivent forcément s’adapter le plus vite possible. Mais ils ont ce don particulier de savoir associer leur savoir-faire à celui des autochtones pour créer par la suite une nouvelle culture. Dans les régions du Nord-Est, par exemple, les Kinh vivent toujours de la riziculture. Mais étant donné que ce sont des régions montagneuses, des régions aux conditions climatiques particulières, ils adoptent les techniques locales." Influencés par le confucianisme et le taoisme, les Kinh pratiquent le culte des ancêtres. Beaucoup d’entre eux sont par ailleurs bouddhistes, ou catholiques. Chez les Kinh, l'homme est considéré comme étant le chef de la famille. Dans une fratrie, le fils aîné a le devoir de pratiquer le culte de ses grands-parents et de ses parents, si ceux-ci ne sont plus de ce monde. La culture des Kinh se transmet essentiellement par l'oral - elle comprend un très important florilège de contes, de légendes, de proverbes et de chansons folkloriques -, ou par écrit. Mais les fêtes occupent aussi une place importante dans la tradition. Les Kinh font de la poterie depuis très longtemps. Ils pratiquent aussi l’élevage. Mais ce sont avant tout des riziculteurs dans l’âme !
Pour moi Il a bien 54 ethnies dont les Kinh, 53 sont minoritaires. Les Kinh ont du mal a accepter cette appartenance au 54 ethnies.
L'ethnie Kinh , nom officiel, représentant la majorité de la population, issue en partie comme les autres ethnies de migrations, là chinoise mais beaucoup plus ancienne (258 ans avant notre ère). Le Vietnam a été peuplée dès le Néolithique par des populations d'origine indonésienne et malaise, ancêtres des populations montagnardes moï ou Muong; à l'âge de bronze, sont arrivées du Nord des populations chinoises qui se sont fondues avec celles qui étaient déjà sur place pour constituer le peuple viêt - Kinh,
Sur l'édition revue et corrigée de 2010 elle est bien référencée sur la liste nomenclature des ethnies page 277, l'ethnie kinh est y est classée - langue austro asiatique - groupe Viet Muong page 12. Aucun chapitre ne leur est cependant consacré mais dans l'introduction il y fait allusion à plusieurs reprises.
Nguyen Van Huy chef de projet du musée ethnologique et son équipe de chercheurs dans Mosaïque culturel des ethnies du Vietnam la classifie également ethnie parmi les 54 sans là non plus lui consacrer un chapitre....
Les Kinh ou encore les Viet, parlent le vietnamien, une langue appartenant à la famille austro-asiatique. Le professeur Bui Xuan Dinh, de l’Institut des sciences sociales du Vietnam :
"Les Kinh, ou les Viet, font partie du groupe Lac Viet. Celui-ci appartient au grand bloc Bach Viet, lequel se compose de plusieurs ethnies. Chaque groupe possède son propre territoire. Les ancêtres des Kinh ont été à l’origine de diverses cultures : Phung Nguyên, Go Mun, Dong Dau ou encore Dong Son. Ils pratiquaient essentiellement la riziculture inondée et l’artisanat, comme en témoigne par exemple les tambours de bronze de Dong Son." Au départ, les Kinh demeuraient principalement dans les régions septentrionales et les deltas du Nord. Puis, à partir du 11ème siècle, ils ont entamé une expansion progressive qui les a d’abord poussés vers le Centre, puis vers le Sud, toujours à la recherche de nouvelles terres à défricher. A l’orée du 20ème siècle, lorsque les français ont commencé à implanter de grands centres urbains dans le Nord-Ouest et sur les Hauts-Plateaux du Centre, ils ont été nombreux à y affluer.
Très vite, où qu’ils soient, les Kinh s’adaptent aux mœurs et aux coutumes locales. Pas étonnant, dès lors, qu’ils réussissent à cohabiter aussi harmonieusement avec des monorités ethniques auxquelles ils apportent leur savoir-faire. Bui Xuan Dinh : "Les Kinh forment un seul bloc. Lorsqu’ils parcourent de nouvelles régions, ils doivent forcément s’adapter le plus vite possible. Mais ils ont ce don particulier de savoir associer leur savoir-faire à celui des autochtones pour créer par la suite une nouvelle culture. Dans les régions du Nord-Est, par exemple, les Kinh vivent toujours de la riziculture. Mais étant donné que ce sont des régions montagneuses, des régions aux conditions climatiques particulières, ils adoptent les techniques locales." Influencés par le confucianisme et le taoisme, les Kinh pratiquent le culte des ancêtres. Beaucoup d’entre eux sont par ailleurs bouddhistes, ou catholiques. Chez les Kinh, l'homme est considéré comme étant le chef de la famille. Dans une fratrie, le fils aîné a le devoir de pratiquer le culte de ses grands-parents et de ses parents, si ceux-ci ne sont plus de ce monde. La culture des Kinh se transmet essentiellement par l'oral - elle comprend un très important florilège de contes, de légendes, de proverbes et de chansons folkloriques -, ou par écrit. Mais les fêtes occupent aussi une place importante dans la tradition. Les Kinh font de la poterie depuis très longtemps. Ils pratiquent aussi l’élevage. Mais ce sont avant tout des riziculteurs dans l’âme !
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Nous sommes d'accord su ce point!
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
En fait, des minorités, il y en a bien 54, car on en a découvert une nouvelle en 1959, 11 familles = 34 personnes (maintenat 600), les RUC, qui vivaient dans des cavernes près de la frontìere laotiennede la région de Quang Binh, et pratiquaient la cueillette, la pêche et la chasse (Courrier du vienam Magazine 27 juin au 3 juillet 2014)
Méfiez-vous de la vie, car les ratés ne vous rateront pas!
Oui, je sais, je suis çà depuis un moment😉 .
Pour l'instant elle n'est toujours pas identifiée comme une ethnie à part entière les chercheurs préfèrent l'associer à l'ethnie Chut du groupe Viet Muong avant d'en apprendre plus, ce qui n'est pas évident, les Rucs sont secrets.
L'Université de Paris VII, en1988 à publié cet ouvrage (qui hélas n'est toujours pas disponible, je suis sur liste d'attente) Lexique Vietnamien-Rục-Français: parler d'une minorité ethnique des montagnes de Quảng Bình, Vietnam avec notes ethnographiques et introduction linguistique
Pour l'instant elle n'est toujours pas identifiée comme une ethnie à part entière les chercheurs préfèrent l'associer à l'ethnie Chut du groupe Viet Muong avant d'en apprendre plus, ce qui n'est pas évident, les Rucs sont secrets.
L'Université de Paris VII, en1988 à publié cet ouvrage (qui hélas n'est toujours pas disponible, je suis sur liste d'attente) Lexique Vietnamien-Rục-Français: parler d'une minorité ethnique des montagnes de Quảng Bình, Vietnam avec notes ethnographiques et introduction linguistique
Pour bien aimer un pays il faut le manger, le boire et l’entendre chanter. (Michel Déon)
Suggestion..à Asia7 et Larsay
A Huê le père Binh professeur de théologie au grand séminaire qui se trouve au bord de la route qui va à la pagode Thien Mu vous sera peut être d'un grand secours à ce sujet .
Il est polyglotte, parle parfaitement vietnamien, français, italien , anglais plus quelques langues ( quatre c'est sûr ) de minorités vivant sur la frontière Vietnam-Laos, donc à proximité ou sur la piste Ho Chi Minh .
Le socialisme ne peut fonctionner qu’au paradis où il n’est pas utile, et en enfer où ils l’ont déjà
Bonsoir,
Pour nous, non habitués du VIETNAM, pouvez-vous nous expliquer la différence entre ETHNIES et MINORITES. (j'ai peut-être l'air bête???🤪)
Ceci étant dit, mon voyage approche du sud au nord....j'aimerais rencontrer d'autres personnes pour partager un moment de communication (vu que je voyage seule). Mes dates du 18 AVRIL au sud pour terminer le 16 MAI au nord.
Merci d'avance.
marie
MARIE
"Chaque voyage se vit différemment même si la destination est la même; c'est notre état d'esprit du moment et nos rencontres qui en font la différence"
Le père Binh doit avoir entre 75 et 80 ans; donc certainement à la retraite;
en espérant qu'il passe celle-ci là où il enseignait ;
Je l'ai connu et beaucoup fréquenté dans les années 91 à 96 ; il habitait une maison sur le chemin qui passe derrière la gare des trains.
Faudrait déjà savoir s'il en a rencontré , s'il en a entendu parler ... Si c'est le cas, il vous en parlera à titre personnel; il n'est pas du genre à faire du prosélytisme ; c'est un vietnamien d'une très grande culture ; attention à son thé !! Il est hyper fort et fait un mal de chien à la tête . 😉 Noyez-le avant d'en boire...
Faudrait déjà savoir s'il en a rencontré , s'il en a entendu parler ... Si c'est le cas, il vous en parlera à titre personnel; il n'est pas du genre à faire du prosélytisme ; c'est un vietnamien d'une très grande culture ; attention à son thé !! Il est hyper fort et fait un mal de chien à la tête . 😉 Noyez-le avant d'en boire...
Le socialisme ne peut fonctionner qu’au paradis où il n’est pas utile, et en enfer où ils l’ont déjà
Bonjour,
SUPER pour l'info du festival à HUE. Il a lieu du 28 avril au 2 mai;
Perso, j'y suis du 27 au 29 avril....(pur hasard)...
MARIE
MARIE
"Chaque voyage se vit différemment même si la destination est la même; c'est notre état d'esprit du moment et nos rencontres qui en font la différence"
J' ai eu la chance de participer au premier festival qui débuta le 4 avril 1992 ;
A l’époque existait à Huê un Centre de français qui était dirigé de main de maître par monsieur Philippe Catelin ;
il avait environ 30 ans, docteur en je sais plus quoi, spécialiste de la guerre d'Espagne ! ( Celle de 1808 à 1813 ) Donc rien à voir avec le Vietnam 😉
C'est une bien longue histoire et ça commence à dater; c'est grâce à des vietnamiens de Huê qui travaillaient à EDF ( Électricité De France ) que ce festival a vu le jour , sponsorisé en très grande partie par leur entreprise .
Deux photos prises le 4 ou le 5 avril 1992; scan de photos argentiques


C'est une bien longue histoire et ça commence à dater; c'est grâce à des vietnamiens de Huê qui travaillaient à EDF ( Électricité De France ) que ce festival a vu le jour , sponsorisé en très grande partie par leur entreprise .
Deux photos prises le 4 ou le 5 avril 1992; scan de photos argentiques


Le socialisme ne peut fonctionner qu’au paradis où il n’est pas utile, et en enfer où ils l’ont déjà
Bonjour et merci pour ces très jolies photos et infos.
Cdlt
Marie
MARIE
"Chaque voyage se vit différemment même si la destination est la même; c'est notre état d'esprit du moment et nos rencontres qui en font la différence"
Hi Quynh,
- Do you happen to know if it’s possible to rent a car for the day (with a driver) in Trung Khanh to visit the Phong Nam Valley and the Ngoc Con Valley? I’m sure there are some in Cao Bang, but are there any in Trung Khanh itself?
- Do you know if the bus from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc stops near the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" nature reserve, which is on the way to the waterfalls? It would really work for us to take the bus to that spot since it’s only 4 km from our hotel.
This would be for a 3-4 day trip to the region next December. My dad speaks Vietnamese, but we haven’t been able to get precise information about this.
- Do you happen to know if it’s possible to rent a car for the day (with a driver) in Trung Khanh to visit the Phong Nam Valley and the Ngoc Con Valley? I’m sure there are some in Cao Bang, but are there any in Trung Khanh itself?
- Do you know if the bus from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc stops near the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" nature reserve, which is on the way to the waterfalls? It would really work for us to take the bus to that spot since it’s only 4 km from our hotel.
This would be for a 3-4 day trip to the region next December. My dad speaks Vietnamese, but we haven’t been able to get precise information about this.
Generally, in October, there isn’t much water left,
but based on my last trip this year, the rains came later in Vietnam.
The rainfall was heavy, so the waterfall is still really beautiful.
That said, watch out for storms.
I got stuck for three days and stayed in a homestay the whole time.
Thomas
Hi there,
Sorry for the late reply, but I came across your message today while checking a new post alert in this thread generated by the site.
Hi Quynh, - Do you happen to know if it’s possible to rent a car for the day (with a driver) in Trung Khanh to visit Phong Nam Valley and Ngoc Con Valley? There are probably options in Cao Bang, but are there any in Trung Khanh?
- Do you know if the bus from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc stops near the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" nature reserve on the way to the waterfalls? It would be convenient for us to take the bus to that spot since it’s only 4 km from our hotel.
This would be for a 3-4 day trip in the region next December. My dad speaks Vietnamese, but we haven’t been able to get precise info on this.
The "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" is located on the DT211 provincial road, starting from Trung Khanh, while the road to Ban Gioc Waterfalls is on the DT206. The public bus from Cao Bang passes through Trung Khanh before continuing on the DT206 toward Ban Gioc Waterfalls. From what I can tell, the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" is about 4-5 km from Trung Khanh.
As for renting a car with a driver in Trung Khanh, I can’t say for sure, but I assume it’s possible (with services like Grab, for example). If you’re staying at a hotel in Trung Khanh, they probably won’t have too much trouble finding you a car with a driver.
Best regards, Quynh
Hi Quynh, - Do you happen to know if it’s possible to rent a car for the day (with a driver) in Trung Khanh to visit Phong Nam Valley and Ngoc Con Valley? There are probably options in Cao Bang, but are there any in Trung Khanh?
- Do you know if the bus from Cao Bang to Ban Gioc stops near the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" nature reserve on the way to the waterfalls? It would be convenient for us to take the bus to that spot since it’s only 4 km from our hotel.
This would be for a 3-4 day trip in the region next December. My dad speaks Vietnamese, but we haven’t been able to get precise info on this.
The "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" is located on the DT211 provincial road, starting from Trung Khanh, while the road to Ban Gioc Waterfalls is on the DT206. The public bus from Cao Bang passes through Trung Khanh before continuing on the DT206 toward Ban Gioc Waterfalls. From what I can tell, the "Khu Bảo Tồn Vượn Cao Vít" is about 4-5 km from Trung Khanh.
As for renting a car with a driver in Trung Khanh, I can’t say for sure, but I assume it’s possible (with services like Grab, for example). If you’re staying at a hotel in Trung Khanh, they probably won’t have too much trouble finding you a car with a driver.
Best regards, Quynh
Vu Do Quynh (Hanoi, Vietnam)
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/
Generally, in October, there isn’t much water left,
but based on my latest trip this year, the rains arrived later in Vietnam.
The rainfall was heavy, so the waterfall is still very beautiful.
However, you need to watch out for storms.
I was stuck for three days and stayed in a homestay the whole time.
Following typhoons No. 10 (Bualoi) and No. 11 (Matmo), Ban Gioc Waterfalls were temporarily closed due to the significant flooding caused by the heavy rains:
https://laodong.vn/du-lich/tin-tuc/thac-ban-gioc-tam-dung-don-khach-vi-mua-lu-nguy-hiem-1587636.html https://vnexpress.net/dung-tham-quan-thac-ban-gioc-vi-lu-lon-4948236.html
(It’s in Vietnamese, but with AI tools now, translation is totally accessible to everyone.)
Generally, rains from typhoons affect the mountainous regions of northern Vietnam in July, August, and September, so the water level at Ban Gioc Waterfalls will be highest from July to September-October. See:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climat_du_Vietnam https://www.climatsetvoyages.com/climat/vietnam/cao-bang
Best regards
Following typhoons No. 10 (Bualoi) and No. 11 (Matmo), Ban Gioc Waterfalls were temporarily closed due to the significant flooding caused by the heavy rains:
https://laodong.vn/du-lich/tin-tuc/thac-ban-gioc-tam-dung-don-khach-vi-mua-lu-nguy-hiem-1587636.html https://vnexpress.net/dung-tham-quan-thac-ban-gioc-vi-lu-lon-4948236.html
(It’s in Vietnamese, but with AI tools now, translation is totally accessible to everyone.)
Generally, rains from typhoons affect the mountainous regions of northern Vietnam in July, August, and September, so the water level at Ban Gioc Waterfalls will be highest from July to September-October. See:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climat_du_Vietnam https://www.climatsetvoyages.com/climat/vietnam/cao-bang
Best regards
Vu Do Quynh (Hanoi, Vietnam)
http://vdquynh.blogspot.com/
Hi there,
Thanks so much for your reply—looks like I’m getting back to you pretty late too. My apologies for the delay. It’s been really tough to get info on the questions I asked: We’ll try to find a car with a driver in Trung Khanh... We’ll see how it goes. On the other hand, there’s a hotel—the Phong Nam Station—that isn’t responding, despite our booking... Hope it hasn’t closed down.
All the best, Tim07
Thanks so much for your reply—looks like I’m getting back to you pretty late too. My apologies for the delay. It’s been really tough to get info on the questions I asked: We’ll try to find a car with a driver in Trung Khanh... We’ll see how it goes. On the other hand, there’s a hotel—the Phong Nam Station—that isn’t responding, despite our booking... Hope it hasn’t closed down.
All the best, Tim07
I doubt you’ll find a car with a driver in Trùng Khánh, a small non-touristy town. Rent in Cao Bằng instead and head down to the excellent 3-star JEANNE hotel (she was Chartron’s nurse). There are several Gioc hotels, including a 3-star one; no need to book ahead—few people spend a night in Ban Gioc since it’s easy to visit in a day with lunch by the falls.
For reference, here’s a reminder of the terrible events of late October 1950:
THE BATTLE OF ROUTE COLONIALE 4
Route Coloniale 4 (RC 4), now Highway 4A from Lạng Sơn to Cao Bằng and 4B from Lạng Sơn to the coast, was a super-strategic road because it runs along the entire Chinese border between the Gulf of Tonkin and Cao Bằng in the northeast, including the three “gates” to China: Móng Cái, Lạng Sơn, and Cao Bằng. This partly explains why, in 1979, the Chinese suddenly bombed and leveled these three cities—plus Lào Cai, the fourth “gate”—before invading the north and suffering a humiliating defeat (50,000 dead and over 400 tanks destroyed).
Many tourists travel from Lạng Sơn to Cao Bằng without knowing—or at all—what happened there in 1950. Yet October 7, 1950, should be a major date in modern history: for the first time, a colonized people in rebellion inflicted a bloody defeat on a colonizing army, which, for France, foreshadowed the inevitable conclusion—delayed by four years due to the stupidity of the governments at the time: Điện Biên Phủ. In fact, the Indochina War was lost at Đông Khê in October 1950.
THE PLAYERS:
On the Asian side: Hồ Chí Minh and Giáp, who had been hiding in the limestone mountains of the northeast since 1941, Viet Minh groups with nothing, and Mao, who was pushing Chiang Kai-shek’s troops back to the Vietnamese border.
On the French side: a government that only cared about Indochina for the billions it brought in, mainly in Vietnam, with big corporations exploiting the three countries (Banque d’Indochine, Brasseries et Glacières d’Indochine, Michelin—rubber plantations—the import-export and maritime shipping companies, etc.), blocking all reforms to keep lining their pockets, and an Expeditionary Corps, the best troops in the world at the time, including the Legion, paratroopers, and Moroccan tabors, led by commanders who would later become famous: Bigeard, Jeanpierre, Trinquier, Faulques, Ponchardier (yes, the brother of the future author of the *Série Noire* novels *Le Gorille*), Élie de Saint Marc, Charton, etc., veterans of Leclerc’s 2nd Armored Division and de Lattre’s 1st Army. Unfortunately for them, this incredible military force was led by a complete incompetent, a protégé of Marshal Juin, General Carpentier, whom de Lattre had fired for incompetence in 1944. This hothead refused to learn about the terrain—crucial in a war like this—or the troops: that was the job of his subordinates. He stayed in his Saigon office, writing glowing reports to the government claiming everything was improving (how history repeats itself; these were the same lies told by U.S. generals during the Vietnam War, with the same results). In fact, just before the disaster, this incompetent told the government he “had the situation well in hand and could likely send troops back to France soon.” The result of his ineptitude: by 1950, he had rarely set foot in Tonkin, except for brief staff meetings, and he refused to listen to the field officers—and French intelligence—who knew exactly what was really happening.
THE SETTING
The northeast is a maze of limestone peaks and deep canyons or valleys, all covered in jungle, riddled with caves, and crisscrossed by a labyrinth of small roads and trails. From Lạng Sơn to Đông Khê, halfway between Lạng Sơn and Cao Bằng, the road follows a valley lined with cultivated hills and has no particularly dangerous spots. From Đông Khê onward, it’s a death trap: the road winds from one pass to another along the river, with limestone cliffs covered in jungle on either side and the river below to the right. Any maneuver is impossible. A small mountain cannon in a cave overlooking the road—and there are hundreds—could destroy the lead and rear trucks of a convoy, and *boom*, no more convoy. Giáp knew this well, but Carpentier didn’t at all, since he’d never been there and refused to listen to the many officers who predicted a catastrophe and recommended evacuating all the posts between Cao Bằng and the impregnable Lạng Sơn before the Viet Minh grew too strong.
THE PRELUDE
In early 1950, Mao’s troops reached the Vietnamese border, pushing back Chiang Kai-shek’s forces in northern Tonkin, which the French managed to disarm, and in northern Thailand, where they settled in the Golden Triangle. In addition to tea plantations, they organized the opium trade, controlling 80% of global production in the 1960s–80s. Mao had now taken over the massive American arms depots and camps in Yunnan, where he invited Giáp to train entire divisions, armed and trained by his generals. French intelligence, no less competent than others, was fully aware of the situation and informed the General Staff, which did nothing except send the Legion to Cao Bằng (the famous 2nd BEP under the command of a legendary warrior, Colonel Charton) and to posts along RC 4, including the main ones: Thất Khê, Na Cham, and Đông Khê (plus smaller ones at the top of each pass). Now well-equipped and trained, the Viet Minh constantly harassed the posts to “get their bearings.” In 1950, some supply convoys lost up to 90% of their trucks between Đông Khê and Cao Bằng.
THE DISASTER
On May 25, 1950, the warning shot: the Viet Minh’s elite 308th Division seized Đông Khê and cut RC 4 in two. The French command was surprised (though intelligence had warned them) to discover that the Viet Minh now had entire, well-equipped divisions. On May 27, the paratroopers of the 3rd BCCP jumped directly onto Đông Khê and recaptured it. On September 15, the Viet Minh took the town back, and it was never retaken. Carpentier decided to evacuate RC 4 between Cao Bằng and Lạng Sơn, which could have been done by airlift, but—ever the genius—he decided it would be done… by road. His plan was for the paratroopers to retake Đông Khê a second time, for a column led by Colonel Lepage to move up the road from Lạng Sơn and link up with the column evacuating Cao Bằng, and for everyone to return calmly to Lạng Sơn. The whole plan hinged on the French retaking Đông Khê.
Charton left Cao Bằng, taking all the civilians with him—which largely explains the evacuation’s failure, and he knew it but refused to abandon them to a certain fate. Of course, nothing went as planned: Despite their heroism, the paratroopers of the 1st BEP couldn’t retake Đông Khê—so RC 4 was still cut off. Lepage’s column was sliced up by the Viet Minh and ended up in a basin south of Đông Khê, at Cốc Xá, hemmed in by sheer cliffs on one side and jungle-covered mountains on the other. Learning that Đông Khê was still in Viet Minh hands, the command—still safely in Lạng Sơn—ordered Charton to take an isolated jungle trail, the Quảng Liêt trail, which bypassed Đông Khê. When he reached the town’s level, as a good soldier, he had everyone climb the ridges overlooking the basin, but Lepage sent desperate distress calls, so Charton also brought his troops down into the Cốc Xá basin to try to rescue him. It was the rendezvous of death: On October 7, 1950, both columns were annihilated at Cốc Xá. The toll: 2,000 French soldiers dead and 3,000 prisoners, fewer than 1,000 of whom were recovered when de Lattre arrived—mostly North Africans, now well-indoctrinated in anti-colonial warfare. The others died of starvation and disease in the Viet Minh’s terrible camps, which Hélie de Saint Marc, who experienced both, said were worse than Nazi concentration camps. Only about a hundred men escaped the trap and managed to reach Thất Khê after days of wandering in the jungle.
THE SHAME
After the disaster, total shame and panic among the French. Though Lạng Sơn was impregnable, the garrison commander, Colonel Constans, decided to abandon it “by surprise,” so he didn’t blow up the huge forts surrounding the city or the massive depots, which were so enormous that they supplied an entire Giáp division for a year. Panic also set in in Hanoi, which the French began evacuating. De Lattre, appointed Commander of the Expeditionary Corps and Governor-General of Indochina, saved the situation in three bloody battles: Vĩnh Yên west of Hanoi, Mạo Khê to the north, and Ninh Bình to the south. But as of October 7, 1950, the Indochina War was lost. Giáp now controlled the entire northeast, from which soldiers (including many Chinese technicians and even troops) and, most importantly, motorized supply convoys instead of porters could move freely all the way to Điện Biên Phủ.
Nothing remains of the large French post at Đông Khê except a small blockhouse made of rubble and a few ammunition bunkers. However, a fantastic walk takes you to Hồ Chí Minh and Giáp’s headquarters during the Battle of RC 4, located in the village of Đức Long. To get there, continue down the street in front of the fort and go straight to the village. At the end of the road, a small sign points left to a path; take it and you’ll enter a maze of concrete trails with caves everywhere—that’s the famous HQ. The yellow stilt house was where Giáp and HCM slept; walk around it and climb the steps. The caves are scattered to the right and left. Return to the road and continue left to reach a small, interesting museum about the October 1950 battle.
The Cốc Xá basin south of Đông Khê
Unforgettable day! Take RC 4 toward Cao Bằng; at a roundabout, turn left onto the old RC 4 and climb the Nguộm Kim Pass, site of the most terrible ambushes on the “Bloody Road.” The views are breathtaking. At the kilometer marker “Cao Bằng 32 km” (there are two houses on the right and one on the left), take a small road to the left (make sure you take the right one by simply asking for “Cốc Xá,” pronounced *Coc Sa*). This road quickly turns into a trail; keep going until you can’t drive any farther in a 4x4. You’re in an idyllic valley with, from left to right, the famous limestone cliffs of Cốc Xá that trapped the French, the trail, a small river, rice paddies, and wooded hills. In the small Tay village, there’s a house-grocery-bar on the left; you have two choices: walk 4 km to the foot of the Cốc Xá cliff where the French were “trapped,” or ask the shopkeeper to call some motorbikes. The local young people, smiling and knowledgeable about the battle’s history, are happy to make 100,000 ₫ per bike (we went by motorbike and walked back—it’s so beautiful, including the Tay women transplanting rice).
If you want to spend a night in Đông Khê, the only decent hotel is the Mai Hiền at the town’s entrance, and the only decent restaurant is the Nhà Hàng Bảo Văn in the town center.
For reference, here’s a reminder of the terrible events of late October 1950:
THE BATTLE OF ROUTE COLONIALE 4
Route Coloniale 4 (RC 4), now Highway 4A from Lạng Sơn to Cao Bằng and 4B from Lạng Sơn to the coast, was a super-strategic road because it runs along the entire Chinese border between the Gulf of Tonkin and Cao Bằng in the northeast, including the three “gates” to China: Móng Cái, Lạng Sơn, and Cao Bằng. This partly explains why, in 1979, the Chinese suddenly bombed and leveled these three cities—plus Lào Cai, the fourth “gate”—before invading the north and suffering a humiliating defeat (50,000 dead and over 400 tanks destroyed).
Many tourists travel from Lạng Sơn to Cao Bằng without knowing—or at all—what happened there in 1950. Yet October 7, 1950, should be a major date in modern history: for the first time, a colonized people in rebellion inflicted a bloody defeat on a colonizing army, which, for France, foreshadowed the inevitable conclusion—delayed by four years due to the stupidity of the governments at the time: Điện Biên Phủ. In fact, the Indochina War was lost at Đông Khê in October 1950.
THE PLAYERS:
On the Asian side: Hồ Chí Minh and Giáp, who had been hiding in the limestone mountains of the northeast since 1941, Viet Minh groups with nothing, and Mao, who was pushing Chiang Kai-shek’s troops back to the Vietnamese border.
On the French side: a government that only cared about Indochina for the billions it brought in, mainly in Vietnam, with big corporations exploiting the three countries (Banque d’Indochine, Brasseries et Glacières d’Indochine, Michelin—rubber plantations—the import-export and maritime shipping companies, etc.), blocking all reforms to keep lining their pockets, and an Expeditionary Corps, the best troops in the world at the time, including the Legion, paratroopers, and Moroccan tabors, led by commanders who would later become famous: Bigeard, Jeanpierre, Trinquier, Faulques, Ponchardier (yes, the brother of the future author of the *Série Noire* novels *Le Gorille*), Élie de Saint Marc, Charton, etc., veterans of Leclerc’s 2nd Armored Division and de Lattre’s 1st Army. Unfortunately for them, this incredible military force was led by a complete incompetent, a protégé of Marshal Juin, General Carpentier, whom de Lattre had fired for incompetence in 1944. This hothead refused to learn about the terrain—crucial in a war like this—or the troops: that was the job of his subordinates. He stayed in his Saigon office, writing glowing reports to the government claiming everything was improving (how history repeats itself; these were the same lies told by U.S. generals during the Vietnam War, with the same results). In fact, just before the disaster, this incompetent told the government he “had the situation well in hand and could likely send troops back to France soon.” The result of his ineptitude: by 1950, he had rarely set foot in Tonkin, except for brief staff meetings, and he refused to listen to the field officers—and French intelligence—who knew exactly what was really happening.
THE SETTING
The northeast is a maze of limestone peaks and deep canyons or valleys, all covered in jungle, riddled with caves, and crisscrossed by a labyrinth of small roads and trails. From Lạng Sơn to Đông Khê, halfway between Lạng Sơn and Cao Bằng, the road follows a valley lined with cultivated hills and has no particularly dangerous spots. From Đông Khê onward, it’s a death trap: the road winds from one pass to another along the river, with limestone cliffs covered in jungle on either side and the river below to the right. Any maneuver is impossible. A small mountain cannon in a cave overlooking the road—and there are hundreds—could destroy the lead and rear trucks of a convoy, and *boom*, no more convoy. Giáp knew this well, but Carpentier didn’t at all, since he’d never been there and refused to listen to the many officers who predicted a catastrophe and recommended evacuating all the posts between Cao Bằng and the impregnable Lạng Sơn before the Viet Minh grew too strong.
THE PRELUDE
In early 1950, Mao’s troops reached the Vietnamese border, pushing back Chiang Kai-shek’s forces in northern Tonkin, which the French managed to disarm, and in northern Thailand, where they settled in the Golden Triangle. In addition to tea plantations, they organized the opium trade, controlling 80% of global production in the 1960s–80s. Mao had now taken over the massive American arms depots and camps in Yunnan, where he invited Giáp to train entire divisions, armed and trained by his generals. French intelligence, no less competent than others, was fully aware of the situation and informed the General Staff, which did nothing except send the Legion to Cao Bằng (the famous 2nd BEP under the command of a legendary warrior, Colonel Charton) and to posts along RC 4, including the main ones: Thất Khê, Na Cham, and Đông Khê (plus smaller ones at the top of each pass). Now well-equipped and trained, the Viet Minh constantly harassed the posts to “get their bearings.” In 1950, some supply convoys lost up to 90% of their trucks between Đông Khê and Cao Bằng.
THE DISASTER
On May 25, 1950, the warning shot: the Viet Minh’s elite 308th Division seized Đông Khê and cut RC 4 in two. The French command was surprised (though intelligence had warned them) to discover that the Viet Minh now had entire, well-equipped divisions. On May 27, the paratroopers of the 3rd BCCP jumped directly onto Đông Khê and recaptured it. On September 15, the Viet Minh took the town back, and it was never retaken. Carpentier decided to evacuate RC 4 between Cao Bằng and Lạng Sơn, which could have been done by airlift, but—ever the genius—he decided it would be done… by road. His plan was for the paratroopers to retake Đông Khê a second time, for a column led by Colonel Lepage to move up the road from Lạng Sơn and link up with the column evacuating Cao Bằng, and for everyone to return calmly to Lạng Sơn. The whole plan hinged on the French retaking Đông Khê.
Charton left Cao Bằng, taking all the civilians with him—which largely explains the evacuation’s failure, and he knew it but refused to abandon them to a certain fate. Of course, nothing went as planned: Despite their heroism, the paratroopers of the 1st BEP couldn’t retake Đông Khê—so RC 4 was still cut off. Lepage’s column was sliced up by the Viet Minh and ended up in a basin south of Đông Khê, at Cốc Xá, hemmed in by sheer cliffs on one side and jungle-covered mountains on the other. Learning that Đông Khê was still in Viet Minh hands, the command—still safely in Lạng Sơn—ordered Charton to take an isolated jungle trail, the Quảng Liêt trail, which bypassed Đông Khê. When he reached the town’s level, as a good soldier, he had everyone climb the ridges overlooking the basin, but Lepage sent desperate distress calls, so Charton also brought his troops down into the Cốc Xá basin to try to rescue him. It was the rendezvous of death: On October 7, 1950, both columns were annihilated at Cốc Xá. The toll: 2,000 French soldiers dead and 3,000 prisoners, fewer than 1,000 of whom were recovered when de Lattre arrived—mostly North Africans, now well-indoctrinated in anti-colonial warfare. The others died of starvation and disease in the Viet Minh’s terrible camps, which Hélie de Saint Marc, who experienced both, said were worse than Nazi concentration camps. Only about a hundred men escaped the trap and managed to reach Thất Khê after days of wandering in the jungle.
THE SHAME
After the disaster, total shame and panic among the French. Though Lạng Sơn was impregnable, the garrison commander, Colonel Constans, decided to abandon it “by surprise,” so he didn’t blow up the huge forts surrounding the city or the massive depots, which were so enormous that they supplied an entire Giáp division for a year. Panic also set in in Hanoi, which the French began evacuating. De Lattre, appointed Commander of the Expeditionary Corps and Governor-General of Indochina, saved the situation in three bloody battles: Vĩnh Yên west of Hanoi, Mạo Khê to the north, and Ninh Bình to the south. But as of October 7, 1950, the Indochina War was lost. Giáp now controlled the entire northeast, from which soldiers (including many Chinese technicians and even troops) and, most importantly, motorized supply convoys instead of porters could move freely all the way to Điện Biên Phủ.
Nothing remains of the large French post at Đông Khê except a small blockhouse made of rubble and a few ammunition bunkers. However, a fantastic walk takes you to Hồ Chí Minh and Giáp’s headquarters during the Battle of RC 4, located in the village of Đức Long. To get there, continue down the street in front of the fort and go straight to the village. At the end of the road, a small sign points left to a path; take it and you’ll enter a maze of concrete trails with caves everywhere—that’s the famous HQ. The yellow stilt house was where Giáp and HCM slept; walk around it and climb the steps. The caves are scattered to the right and left. Return to the road and continue left to reach a small, interesting museum about the October 1950 battle.
The Cốc Xá basin south of Đông Khê
Unforgettable day! Take RC 4 toward Cao Bằng; at a roundabout, turn left onto the old RC 4 and climb the Nguộm Kim Pass, site of the most terrible ambushes on the “Bloody Road.” The views are breathtaking. At the kilometer marker “Cao Bằng 32 km” (there are two houses on the right and one on the left), take a small road to the left (make sure you take the right one by simply asking for “Cốc Xá,” pronounced *Coc Sa*). This road quickly turns into a trail; keep going until you can’t drive any farther in a 4x4. You’re in an idyllic valley with, from left to right, the famous limestone cliffs of Cốc Xá that trapped the French, the trail, a small river, rice paddies, and wooded hills. In the small Tay village, there’s a house-grocery-bar on the left; you have two choices: walk 4 km to the foot of the Cốc Xá cliff where the French were “trapped,” or ask the shopkeeper to call some motorbikes. The local young people, smiling and knowledgeable about the battle’s history, are happy to make 100,000 ₫ per bike (we went by motorbike and walked back—it’s so beautiful, including the Tay women transplanting rice).
If you want to spend a night in Đông Khê, the only decent hotel is the Mai Hiền at the town’s entrance, and the only decent restaurant is the Nhà Hàng Bảo Văn in the town center.
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More discussions
Hi everyone,
I’m looking for addresses for guesthouses or, even better, houseboats or rafting houses on the River Kwai, between Kanchanaburi and Sangkhlaburi, to spend a few weeks contemplating this beautiful river.
Thanks for your suggestions!
Premaria
Hi there,
we’re currently in Mai Chau and tomorrow we’re hitting the road back to Hanoi to head up toward Bac Ha and Sapa.
We haven’t really had a set plan since we arrived—we’ve already done the Halong Bay on land and by sea.
I’ve got 2 free days before heading to Bac Ha and Sapa.
Any tips?
Thanks, and looking forward to hearing from you.
Hi fellow travelers,
First trip to Vietnam.
We’ll be arriving in Ho Chi Minh City during Tet.
Is it complicated to find accommodation and get around during this period?
Any tips would be welcome.
Thanks for your replies.
Hey everyone,
Silly question—backpack or hard-shell suitcase for the Sepilok, Kinabatangan, Tioman, KL trip? I’m struggling to fit all my son’s and my stuff into the 70L backpack... and I’m thinking a suitcase would be easier, but I’m not sure if it’ll work for getting around.
Thanks! 🙂
Silly question—backpack or hard-shell suitcase for the Sepilok, Kinabatangan, Tioman, KL trip? I’m struggling to fit all my son’s and my stuff into the 70L backpack... and I’m thinking a suitcase would be easier, but I’m not sure if it’ll work for getting around.
Thanks! 🙂
Hi there,
I didn’t plan to return to Thailand this year, but my health conditions mean it’ll be the best place for me to stay between two trips to India. The tourism setup there is so well-organized that it’s the most "comfortable" country for a short visit. Thailand feels too sanitized for my taste, and there’s too much religion, Buddha, and the King, but it’s still the best option given how my health has been evolving. I’d considered two weeks in ThaTon for hiking, but I got too sick from the burn-offs during my trips to the mountains around Chiang Rai. So I’m not sure where to go this year. Definitely not the sea, touristy spots, or the mountains with burn-offs...
Thanks, friends, if you’ve got any suggestions.
Thanks, friends, if you’ve got any suggestions.
Hello.
In 1996, we crossed Vietnam from Saigon to Hanoi by motorbike—Minsk bikes we bought in Saigon. I haven’t been back since, and it seems like a lot has changed.
- We’re heading to the south (well, the north and center) with the family in July-August (3 people).
- Is the road network more developed now? Back then, there was only National Route 1 from south to north. I’m thinking of renting a car this time (no motorbike with the family—though in ’96, they had a Jawa sidecar for sale, and we hesitated… maybe it’s for the best).
- Is Halong Bay really something to avoid because of overtourism? Even back then, it was pretty crowded. Is there a less touristy alternative?
- We’ll be traveling from Hanoi down to Danang (the only city we didn’t stop in back in ’96). Even though it’s a bit overhyped in a Chinese-tourist kind of way (from what I’ve read), we’re only going for the beach—pure relaxation for 7 days. The beaches are stunning, and I know the South China Sea is warm like coffee.
- Then, we’ll visit Hoi An, where I stopped in ’96. It was already popular with backpackers back then, but no glowing boats or all the touristy fuss!
- After that, Hue, where I have great memories—it’s a beautiful city.
- And also the nature around Ninh Binh, followed by 2-3 days in Hanoi.
That’s the plan. I’d love to hear any tips to avoid mass tourism, and if anyone’s done this before: - Is it possible to rent a car in Danang and drop it off in Hanoi?
Thanks, and long live the Nam! !
- We’re heading to the south (well, the north and center) with the family in July-August (3 people).
- Is the road network more developed now? Back then, there was only National Route 1 from south to north. I’m thinking of renting a car this time (no motorbike with the family—though in ’96, they had a Jawa sidecar for sale, and we hesitated… maybe it’s for the best).
- Is Halong Bay really something to avoid because of overtourism? Even back then, it was pretty crowded. Is there a less touristy alternative?
- We’ll be traveling from Hanoi down to Danang (the only city we didn’t stop in back in ’96). Even though it’s a bit overhyped in a Chinese-tourist kind of way (from what I’ve read), we’re only going for the beach—pure relaxation for 7 days. The beaches are stunning, and I know the South China Sea is warm like coffee.
- Then, we’ll visit Hoi An, where I stopped in ’96. It was already popular with backpackers back then, but no glowing boats or all the touristy fuss!
- After that, Hue, where I have great memories—it’s a beautiful city.
- And also the nature around Ninh Binh, followed by 2-3 days in Hanoi.
That’s the plan. I’d love to hear any tips to avoid mass tourism, and if anyone’s done this before: - Is it possible to rent a car in Danang and drop it off in Hanoi?
Thanks, and long live the Nam! !
Hey everyone,
I’m over in East Borneo in mid-July.
I’m struggling to wrap up the end of my itinerary, even though it’s pretty straightforward (long but simple).
Last year, we did Malaysia (KL and the mainland + around Kuching).
Day 1 – Arrive in Kota Kinabalu early, stroll around town and hit the must-sees. Day 2 – Excursion to Tunku Abdul Rahman Park, snorkeling at 3 islands. Day 3 – Hike around Mount Kinabalu without summiting (450 per person, no way). Day 4 – Poring Hot Springs + evening flight to Sandakan. Day 5-6-7 – Kinabatangan River (still looking for the right guide). Day 8 – Sepilok for the orangutans, the Sun Bear Centre, and Rainforest Discovery Centre. Day 9 – Selingan, turtle island. Day 10 – Head to Semporna. Day 11-12-13-14 – Sipadan, Mabul, Kapalai. Day 15 – Bohey Dulang. Day 16 to Day 25: I’M STUCK.
I looked into Danum Valley, but for 3 days/2 nights, they’re quoting 650 € per person—come on, that’s ridiculous. I checked out a detour into Indonesia (still East Borneo), but I’m having trouble deciding what would be amazing. I read about Sangalaki + Kakaban (2 islands, 1 base) / Mahakam Delta - Kutai (orangutans and river) / Sungai Boh (Dayak Kayan) – jungle & culture. But honestly, I’m struggling to finalize this itinerary. If we venture that way, we’d head back to KK from Balikpapan.
What do you all think? Thanks in advance!
Day 1 – Arrive in Kota Kinabalu early, stroll around town and hit the must-sees. Day 2 – Excursion to Tunku Abdul Rahman Park, snorkeling at 3 islands. Day 3 – Hike around Mount Kinabalu without summiting (450 per person, no way). Day 4 – Poring Hot Springs + evening flight to Sandakan. Day 5-6-7 – Kinabatangan River (still looking for the right guide). Day 8 – Sepilok for the orangutans, the Sun Bear Centre, and Rainforest Discovery Centre. Day 9 – Selingan, turtle island. Day 10 – Head to Semporna. Day 11-12-13-14 – Sipadan, Mabul, Kapalai. Day 15 – Bohey Dulang. Day 16 to Day 25: I’M STUCK.
I looked into Danum Valley, but for 3 days/2 nights, they’re quoting 650 € per person—come on, that’s ridiculous. I checked out a detour into Indonesia (still East Borneo), but I’m having trouble deciding what would be amazing. I read about Sangalaki + Kakaban (2 islands, 1 base) / Mahakam Delta - Kutai (orangutans and river) / Sungai Boh (Dayak Kayan) – jungle & culture. But honestly, I’m struggling to finalize this itinerary. If we venture that way, we’d head back to KK from Balikpapan.
What do you all think? Thanks in advance!
Hi everyone,
For a 4-month stay in Egypt, I had ENORMOUS problems. The regulations are very bureaucratic and extremely nitpicky there. For a 4-month stay in the Philippines, I was wondering if the procedures are just as complicated? I’m bringing my cell phone with an eSIM. Should I choose a plan from Canada for use in the Philippines, or should I get a plan only once I arrive? After 30 days, do I renew with the Canadian provider I chose before leaving, or do I switch to a local company? Do I need to register my phone with the authorities in the Philippines? (That was the case in Egypt.) For the 3rd and 4th months, will it be just as simple—renewing with a Canadian or local provider—or should I expect problems?
Thanks for your opinions/answers! Marc Lamarre
For a 4-month stay in Egypt, I had ENORMOUS problems. The regulations are very bureaucratic and extremely nitpicky there. For a 4-month stay in the Philippines, I was wondering if the procedures are just as complicated? I’m bringing my cell phone with an eSIM. Should I choose a plan from Canada for use in the Philippines, or should I get a plan only once I arrive? After 30 days, do I renew with the Canadian provider I chose before leaving, or do I switch to a local company? Do I need to register my phone with the authorities in the Philippines? (That was the case in Egypt.) For the 3rd and 4th months, will it be just as simple—renewing with a Canadian or local provider—or should I expect problems?
Thanks for your opinions/answers! Marc Lamarre
Hello,
I’ll be in Malaysia with my wife, mainly in Langkawi and Penang for Christmas and New Year’s at the end of 2026.
If you’ve had the experience—and since I’ve read (though it’s not very clear) that these two islands get quite crowded during this period—would you recommend booking accommodation well in advance, or is it easy to find something on the spot?
Hotels or Airbnb?
Do you have any great tips for accommodation or any practical info to share?
We’ll be staying 5 to 7 days on each island.
Thanks in advance for your replies
Hi there. To make the most of Lake Toba, is it better to find accommodation on the lake’s shores (which one?) or on Samosir Island? Thanks for your tips!
Hi. Is it possible to take the train from Malacca to Ipoh? Thanks for your feedback.
Hi there,
We’re heading to Vietnam as a family on July 8th for a little over 3 weeks (north and center). We’ve only booked the first 3 nights in Hanoi, and nothing else after that. We like to decide things on the spot and go with the flow, without rushing everywhere. But I’m still a bit unsure: when heading down to the center (Hue), is it better to book the overnight trains in advance? We don’t want to take any flights while we’re there—just use the overnight train for the long trips. But I’m worried we won’t get seats if we buy the tickets on the spot, say, 2 days before. What do the experts here think? And which website can we use to book the tickets? Thanks in advance for your tips!
Hi everyone!
I’m heading back to Thailand in July 2026 with a stopover in Cambodia to visit the Angkor site.
After Angkor, I’ve booked a stay on Ko Chang island. Does anyone know if there are direct transport options from Cambodia to Ko Chang without having to go back through Bangkok? That would be amazing!!
I think there are, but I’d need more details!!
I went to Thailand in February 2025 and don’t remember having to apply for a visa—is that still the case now? And for Cambodia too?
Thanks so much!!!
Laurence from Bayonne
Hello,
We’re a couple looking for a driver for 10 days to explore Northern Vietnam in April.
Best regards,
I’d love to get some feedback on our itinerary—it’s probably pretty basic! This is our second trip to Asia and our first to Indonesia. We have three kids aged 20, 18, and 12. We land in Jakarta at 4 PM, spend 3 nights/2 days there, then take the train to Yogyakarta for 3 nights/2 days, followed by the train to Surabaya for 2 nights/1 day, then the train to Bromo for 1 day/1 night, a private driver to Ijen for 2 nights/2 days, then on to Bali (Ubud) for 4 nights/3 days, followed by Gili Air for 3 nights/2 days, Senggigi (Lombok) for 2 nights, and finally 5 nights in Kuta. I’m considering cutting the 2 nights in Senggigi to just keep Kuta and extend it to 7 nights. In Lombok, I’m not sure how to get around since I’m not comfortable with scooters... Your thoughts on all of this, and any advice, are more than welcome—don’t hesitate!
For those wondering why cities like Jakarta and Surabaya: we don’t often get the chance to visit big Asian cities, so we wanted to include that discovery in our trip. The trains between Jakarta and Yogyakarta, Surabaya and Probolinggo are booked. The return flight from Lombok to Jakarta is also set. Accommodations are booked but flexible (same for the trains).
Thanks!
For those wondering why cities like Jakarta and Surabaya: we don’t often get the chance to visit big Asian cities, so we wanted to include that discovery in our trip. The trains between Jakarta and Yogyakarta, Surabaya and Probolinggo are booked. The return flight from Lombok to Jakarta is also set. Accommodations are booked but flexible (same for the trains).
Thanks!
hi
I’ll be on a cruise on January 11, 2027. We’re stopping in Ho Chi Minh City (Phu My).
I’d love to see something other than the city—anyone have recommendations or a guide for 6-8 people with pickup at the port?
I’d really like to visit some rice paddies.
I’ll be on a cruise on January 11, 2027. We’re stopping in Ho Chi Minh City (Phu My).
I’d love to see something other than the city—anyone have recommendations or a guide for 6-8 people with pickup at the port?
I’d really like to visit some rice paddies.
Hi there,
I’m spending 4 days in Kuala Lumpur.
Could you let me know what’s absolutely worth visiting and what’s not really worth the effort?
Any suggested itinerary?
Apart from Batu Caves, I don’t have many ideas...
I’m traveling with my partner and our 16-year-old son.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
I’m spending 4 days in Kuala Lumpur.
Could you let me know what’s absolutely worth visiting and what’s not really worth the effort?
Any suggested itinerary?
Apart from Batu Caves, I don’t have many ideas...
I’m traveling with my partner and our 16-year-old son.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Hi,
After our trip to China, we want to spend a week in the Philippines for some beach time and snorkeling.
We're looking for the best spot to settle in—nice beaches, great marine life, and short transfer times.
Thanks for your suggestions!
Hi there,
Does anyone know of a private transfer or taxi company that organizes transfers from the Sukhothai area to Chiang Mai? Our routes are Sukhothai-Lampang, Lampang-Chom Thong, and Chom Thong-Chiang Mai. My searches on Google Maps, 12Go, and others haven’t turned up much...
For our Bangkok-Sukhothai trips, I use a company I’ve already tried, but they don’t have a fleet available from Sukhothai and have to go through third-party companies—which, understandably, take their commission. This nearly doubles the prices...
There are four of us, and we’re not traveling light, so a minibus isn’t an option. ;-)
Thanks for your tips! DrSnuggle
Does anyone know of a private transfer or taxi company that organizes transfers from the Sukhothai area to Chiang Mai? Our routes are Sukhothai-Lampang, Lampang-Chom Thong, and Chom Thong-Chiang Mai. My searches on Google Maps, 12Go, and others haven’t turned up much...
For our Bangkok-Sukhothai trips, I use a company I’ve already tried, but they don’t have a fleet available from Sukhothai and have to go through third-party companies—which, understandably, take their commission. This nearly doubles the prices...
There are four of us, and we’re not traveling light, so a minibus isn’t an option. ;-)
Thanks for your tips! DrSnuggle
Bonjour,
En voyage en Thaïlande je suis à la recherche de jonc bouddhiste kumlai.
Quelqu’un saurait-il me guider pour en trouver?
À Bangkok j’ai visité quelques temple mais je n’en n’ai pas trouvé sur les magasins à proximité.
Si vous avez une idée je suis preneuse! Belle journée :-)
Hi there
My trip’s coming up, and I’m having a bit of trouble with three bus/minivan routes. Usually, I find everything at this time of year, but this time—yikes!
Sandakan → Sepilok: No app for this one—you just hop on bus #14 at the local terminal (pay cash on board). But where do I catch it, and where’s the stop??
Sandakan → Semporna: From what I’ve heard, it’s the Sida Express company (great name, right? 😄). Can’t book online, but apparently, you *have* to because there’s only one bus at 8 AM. Where do I board, and where does it drop me off?
Semporna → Tawau: Found this via AI—is it legit? No online booking, as far as I can tell. Minivans leave from a stop in the Jalan Hospital area, near the Milimewa supermarket, supposedly???? And when you arrive, does it drop you at **Sabindo Square** in Tawau?????
Thanks for any tips—I’m stuck!
My trip’s coming up, and I’m having a bit of trouble with three bus/minivan routes. Usually, I find everything at this time of year, but this time—yikes!
Sandakan → Sepilok: No app for this one—you just hop on bus #14 at the local terminal (pay cash on board). But where do I catch it, and where’s the stop??
Sandakan → Semporna: From what I’ve heard, it’s the Sida Express company (great name, right? 😄). Can’t book online, but apparently, you *have* to because there’s only one bus at 8 AM. Where do I board, and where does it drop me off?
Semporna → Tawau: Found this via AI—is it legit? No online booking, as far as I can tell. Minivans leave from a stop in the Jalan Hospital area, near the Milimewa supermarket, supposedly???? And when you arrive, does it drop you at **Sabindo Square** in Tawau?????
Thanks for any tips—I’m stuck!
Hi there,
we’ll be in Mai Chau in June and we’re thinking of heading to Sapa, but first spending a few days in Bac Ha to do some hiking and explore the area.
Is this a good idea for those who’ve been there?
How do you get there?
Thanks for your feedback.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Cédric.
Hi everyone. As I’m planning my trip for next winter, I’m looking for hotel suggestions in Camotes, Bantayan, Malapascua, Bohol, and Siquijor. The ones I had in mind seem to be fully booked (unless it’s too early?). For those familiar with the area, is it easy to find accommodations on the spot in January/February? I’m specifically looking for hotels with a pool, beachfront, air conditioning, and easy scooter rental nearby. Thanks for your tips!
Hi there,
I’m planning an itinerary and would love some feedback on whether it’s doable and if the number of days per destination is enough—or too much. I was also debating whether to add an extra night on an island or spend an extra night in Kampot to visit Kep or Battambang.
March 23: Arrival in Phnom Penh in the morning March 24: Phnom Penh March 25: Phnom Penh March 26: Depart for Kampot March 27: Kampot March 28: Depart for Battambang March 29: Battambang March 30: Tonlé SAP to Siem Reap March 31: Siem Reap April 1: Siem Reap April 2: Siem Reap April 3: Siem Reap April 4: Siem Reap April 5: Departure
Thanks for any suggestions or help!
March 23: Arrival in Phnom Penh in the morning March 24: Phnom Penh March 25: Phnom Penh March 26: Depart for Kampot March 27: Kampot March 28: Depart for Battambang March 29: Battambang March 30: Tonlé SAP to Siem Reap March 31: Siem Reap April 1: Siem Reap April 2: Siem Reap April 3: Siem Reap April 4: Siem Reap April 5: Departure
Thanks for any suggestions or help!
Hi there,
Yesterday in the Thailand section, 100% of the new threads were just about beach destinations 😕...
So here’s the counterattack in the form of this photo thread, dedicated solely to the countryside: the locals, their livestock, fields, farms, rice paddies, small rivers, and agricultural machinery. If you’ve got any pictures that fit these categories, feel free to add them!
Comments welcome.
For each photo, I’ll (or you can) indicate the area where it was taken.
Kanchanaburi:
Kanchanaburi:
Sri Chiangmai:
Soppong:
Tha Wang Pha:
Kanchanaburi:

Kanchanaburi:

Sri Chiangmai:

Soppong:

Tha Wang Pha:

🙂 Hi everyone!
Hope you're all doing well! It's been a while since I last traveled, but I'm finally heading out again soon!
For those familiar with SOUTHEAST ASIA, I'm planning to leave in mid-June (with the trip ending at the latest in November), and I don’t have a precise idea of exact places or itineraries yet. The thing is, this period is usually the rainy season...
Any advice? I was thinking of Malaysia or Indonesia, like Sulawesi, for example (all countries and islands in Southeast Asia interest me except Bali).
Any recommendations? I’m doing my research online, but if anyone here has the time and knowledge, I’d love to hear from you.
Thanks everyone, take care and stay happy! ❤️
Hope you're all doing well! It's been a while since I last traveled, but I'm finally heading out again soon!
For those familiar with SOUTHEAST ASIA, I'm planning to leave in mid-June (with the trip ending at the latest in November), and I don’t have a precise idea of exact places or itineraries yet. The thing is, this period is usually the rainy season...
Any advice? I was thinking of Malaysia or Indonesia, like Sulawesi, for example (all countries and islands in Southeast Asia interest me except Bali).
Any recommendations? I’m doing my research online, but if anyone here has the time and knowledge, I’d love to hear from you.
Thanks everyone, take care and stay happy! ❤️
Hi there,
My partner and I are planning a trip to Indonesia in September-October 2026. It’ll be our first time in Asia, and we’re thinking of hitting the classic spots in East Java and Bali, then wrapping up with a cruise around Komodo for some snorkeling/diving. Here’s a rough draft of our itinerary—I’m wondering if it’s doable.
20/09: Flight from Jakarta to Yogyakarta, arrive around noon, afternoon/evening and overnight in Yogyakarta. 21/09: Borobudur 22/09: Prambanan 23/09: Travel to Bromo (Cemoro Lawang) 24/09: Bromo 25/09: Kawa Ijen 26/09: Travel to Bali, overnight in Pemuteran 27/09: Excursion to Pulau Melujan, overnight in Pemuteran 28/09: Travel to Munduk, overnight in Munduk 29/09: Explore Munduk and surroundings, overnight in Munduk 30/09: Explore Munduk and surroundings, overnight in Munduk 01/10: Route to Ubud (via Pura Ulu Danau Bratan, Jatiluwih?), overnight in Ubud 02/10: Explore Ubud and surroundings, overnight in Ubud 03/10: Explore Ubud and surroundings, overnight in Ubud 04/10: Travel to Denpasar, flight to Labuan Bajo, overnight in Labuan Bajo 05/10: Komodo cruise 06/10: Komodo cruise 07/10: Komodo cruise, flight to Denpasar in the late afternoon/evening or overnight in Labuan Bajo. 08/10: Flight to Denpasar (if not taken the day before), afternoon in Jimbaran, overnight near Denpasar 09/10: 10:00 AM flight Denpasar - SIN, overnight in Singapore 10/10: Flight SIN-YQB
Thanks for your thoughts—and for your time!
My partner and I are planning a trip to Indonesia in September-October 2026. It’ll be our first time in Asia, and we’re thinking of hitting the classic spots in East Java and Bali, then wrapping up with a cruise around Komodo for some snorkeling/diving. Here’s a rough draft of our itinerary—I’m wondering if it’s doable.
20/09: Flight from Jakarta to Yogyakarta, arrive around noon, afternoon/evening and overnight in Yogyakarta. 21/09: Borobudur 22/09: Prambanan 23/09: Travel to Bromo (Cemoro Lawang) 24/09: Bromo 25/09: Kawa Ijen 26/09: Travel to Bali, overnight in Pemuteran 27/09: Excursion to Pulau Melujan, overnight in Pemuteran 28/09: Travel to Munduk, overnight in Munduk 29/09: Explore Munduk and surroundings, overnight in Munduk 30/09: Explore Munduk and surroundings, overnight in Munduk 01/10: Route to Ubud (via Pura Ulu Danau Bratan, Jatiluwih?), overnight in Ubud 02/10: Explore Ubud and surroundings, overnight in Ubud 03/10: Explore Ubud and surroundings, overnight in Ubud 04/10: Travel to Denpasar, flight to Labuan Bajo, overnight in Labuan Bajo 05/10: Komodo cruise 06/10: Komodo cruise 07/10: Komodo cruise, flight to Denpasar in the late afternoon/evening or overnight in Labuan Bajo. 08/10: Flight to Denpasar (if not taken the day before), afternoon in Jimbaran, overnight near Denpasar 09/10: 10:00 AM flight Denpasar - SIN, overnight in Singapore 10/10: Flight SIN-YQB
Thanks for your thoughts—and for your time!
Hi everyone,
My girlfriend and I booked our tickets with Saudia Airlines for a trip to Thailand this summer, from July 5th to August 3rd. Given the geopolitical situation in the Middle East, we’re keeping a close eye on the news.
I was wondering if anyone here is in the same situation as us?
• Have you heard anything about possible mass cancellations or if the airline is still maintaining its routes to Asia?
• Are there any travelers who’ve recently returned who could tell us if air corridors have been changed (longer flight times)?
The idea is to know what to expect so we can prepare as best as possible. Thanks for your replies! !
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all your contributions on the forum—they’ve really helped me plan my trip. There are four of us friends heading to Sulawesi for 20 days. Based on all your advice, I’ve put together the following itinerary:
July 30: Makassar – sightseeing July 31: Makassar – sightseeing + overnight bus to Rantepao August 1–7: Tana Toraja with a guide August 7: Tana Toraja to Tentena + visit Tentena August 8: Early departure with a private driver to Ampana, then ferry to the Togian Islands August 9–15: Togian Islands (2 different resorts) August 15: Depart Togian Islands for Luwuk August 16: Flight Luwuk to Makassar August 17: Rammang Rammang August 18: Stroll in Makassar, then return home
Overall, what do you think?
I also have a question about the connection between Tentena and the Togian Islands: Is it doable to leave early in the morning as planned and still be sure not to miss the ferry?
Thanks in advance for your feedback! :)
Thanks for all your contributions on the forum—they’ve really helped me plan my trip. There are four of us friends heading to Sulawesi for 20 days. Based on all your advice, I’ve put together the following itinerary:
July 30: Makassar – sightseeing July 31: Makassar – sightseeing + overnight bus to Rantepao August 1–7: Tana Toraja with a guide August 7: Tana Toraja to Tentena + visit Tentena August 8: Early departure with a private driver to Ampana, then ferry to the Togian Islands August 9–15: Togian Islands (2 different resorts) August 15: Depart Togian Islands for Luwuk August 16: Flight Luwuk to Makassar August 17: Rammang Rammang August 18: Stroll in Makassar, then return home
Overall, what do you think?
I also have a question about the connection between Tentena and the Togian Islands: Is it doable to leave early in the morning as planned and still be sure not to miss the ferry?
Thanks in advance for your feedback! :)
Hi everyone,
I’m currently working on a 30-day itinerary for May/June 2027.
10 days in eastern Java (Malang, Bromo, waterfalls, Meru Beriti Park, Banyuwangi, and Ijen), a short transit in Ubud for a few days, then Flores before heading back to Jakarta.
We’ll spend 15 days in Flores (the classic route: Moni, Bajawa, Riung, Ruteng, ending in Labuan Bajo).
I’d love some firsthand feedback on flights to Maumere or Ende from Bali Denpasar. I know there are no direct routes and that you have to connect through Labuan Bajo or Timor (I think), which isn’t an issue in itself.
But I’ve read here and there that flights to these destinations can be delayed—or worse, canceled—and that it’s better to fly in and out of Labuan Bajo, which isn’t exactly ideal...
Thanks for any tips or experiences you can share!