Visiter Cliff Palace à Mesa Verde
by Evajules
This discussion is in French, the community’s main language.
Original post
Bonjour tout le monde,
Je serais à Mesa Verde dans quelques semaines avec l'intention de visiter Cliff Palace.
Je ne trouve pas ce que je cherche à savoir :
- Est-il nécessaire de réserver à l'avance cette visite ou directement en arrivant au visitor center.
- Y-a-t-il des conditions d’accès particulières type échelles ou passages difficiles ? ( sensations vertigineuses pour mon épouse ! )
Par avance merci
Si le chemin est difficile, le difficile est le chemin.
jour Jean-Michel,
je n'y suis pas encore allé, mais, sur le site suivant, il est indiqué que les réservations sont dans des lieux très limités et 2 jours avant max ; pas de résa internet. http://www.nps.gov/meve/planyourvisit/tour_tickets.htm
ici, il est clairement indiqué qu'il y a des échelles : http://www.nps.gov/meve/historyculture/cd_cliff_palace_tour.htm
Pas beau de dénoncer sa femme alors que, finalement, c'est toi qui a peur 😉😎😎😎 !
je n'y suis pas encore allé, mais, sur le site suivant, il est indiqué que les réservations sont dans des lieux très limités et 2 jours avant max ; pas de résa internet. http://www.nps.gov/meve/planyourvisit/tour_tickets.htm
ici, il est clairement indiqué qu'il y a des échelles : http://www.nps.gov/meve/historyculture/cd_cliff_palace_tour.htm
Pas beau de dénoncer sa femme alors que, finalement, c'est toi qui a peur 😉😎😎😎 !
Salut,
Non t'arrive au Visitor Center et on t'indique l'heure de la visite. Pour les échelles, c'est pas non plus la piste aux étoiles, ça reste raisonnable et les rangers font monter un par un par un histoire de ne pas te prendre le Mr ou la dame du dessus sur la tête...
Maintenant le vertige ça ne se contrôle pas et si elle angoisse au pied de l'échelle, elle peut faire demi-tour aussi.
Non t'arrive au Visitor Center et on t'indique l'heure de la visite. Pour les échelles, c'est pas non plus la piste aux étoiles, ça reste raisonnable et les rangers font monter un par un par un histoire de ne pas te prendre le Mr ou la dame du dessus sur la tête...
Maintenant le vertige ça ne se contrôle pas et si elle angoisse au pied de l'échelle, elle peut faire demi-tour aussi.
Arnho (dit Nono la sulfateuse)
Venez découvrir mes visions d'Amérique sur http://www.flickr.com/photos/arnhovoyage/
Bonjour
Mesa Verde 2009 en juin: visite de Cliff Palace retenue au Visitor Center en fin de matinée pour le milieu d'après midi... Quelques courtes (? 🙂) échelles escaladées par une amie de notre groupe sensible au vide - les échelles sont posées et enchâssées pratiquement dans la roche, donc pas de vide apparent -- ça se passe tout à la fin pour remonter vers le parking. voir les images avec Google
Balcony House "offre" des échelles plus hautes, donc à déconseiller.
C'est assez venté - vous apprendrez des choses étonnantes sur la connaissance des Anasazi concernant la position du soleil aux solstices
Alain
Mesa Verde 2009 en juin: visite de Cliff Palace retenue au Visitor Center en fin de matinée pour le milieu d'après midi... Quelques courtes (? 🙂) échelles escaladées par une amie de notre groupe sensible au vide - les échelles sont posées et enchâssées pratiquement dans la roche, donc pas de vide apparent -- ça se passe tout à la fin pour remonter vers le parking. voir les images avec Google
Balcony House "offre" des échelles plus hautes, donc à déconseiller.
C'est assez venté - vous apprendrez des choses étonnantes sur la connaissance des Anasazi concernant la position du soleil aux solstices
Alain
vous apprendrez des choses étonnantes sur la connaissance des Anasazi concernant la position du soleil aux solstices
Bon on va pas s'enflammer non plus, les lascars connaissaient la position du soleil aux solstices... SUPER! on est au XIème/XIVème siècle, ça leur fait quelques siècles de retard sur leurs "voisins" précolombiens sans parler des égyptiens ou des chinois...
Au même moment, soit vers 1300, en Europe étaient fabriquées les premières horloges mécaniques alors que les Anasazi ne connaissaient pas la roue!
Étonnant non?
Bon on va pas s'enflammer non plus, les lascars connaissaient la position du soleil aux solstices... SUPER! on est au XIème/XIVème siècle, ça leur fait quelques siècles de retard sur leurs "voisins" précolombiens sans parler des égyptiens ou des chinois...
Au même moment, soit vers 1300, en Europe étaient fabriquées les premières horloges mécaniques alors que les Anasazi ne connaissaient pas la roue!
Étonnant non?
Arnho (dit Nono la sulfateuse)
Venez découvrir mes visions d'Amérique sur http://www.flickr.com/photos/arnhovoyage/
Merci à tous pour vos réponses utiles - comme d'habitude sur ce forum
Bonne fin de week end
Si le chemin est difficile, le difficile est le chemin.
Bonsoir Arnaud,
Au même moment, soit vers 1300, en Europe étaient fabriquées....
C'est un peu le genre de discussion que j'ai eu avec Laurent Martres (auteur de PTS) ; je pense qu'il ne faut pas comparer car, dans ce cas, compare l'Egypte et la France à l'époque de pyramides, ce n'est pas glorieux pour nos ancêtres 😉.
es Anasazi ne connaissaient pas la roue!
Quand je regarde la civilisation Inca, je suis étonné de constater que, dans TOUT le continent américain, la roue était inconnue.
Au même moment, soit vers 1300, en Europe étaient fabriquées....
C'est un peu le genre de discussion que j'ai eu avec Laurent Martres (auteur de PTS) ; je pense qu'il ne faut pas comparer car, dans ce cas, compare l'Egypte et la France à l'époque de pyramides, ce n'est pas glorieux pour nos ancêtres 😉.
es Anasazi ne connaissaient pas la roue!
Quand je regarde la civilisation Inca, je suis étonné de constater que, dans TOUT le continent américain, la roue était inconnue.
Bon on va pas s'enflammer non plus, les lascars connaissaient la position du soleil aux solstices... SUPER! on est au XIème/XIVème siècle, ça leur fait quelques siècles de retard sur leurs "voisins" précolombiens sans parler des égyptiens ou des chinois...
........... sauf juste un détail, ils ne connaissaient pas l'écriture, ce qui n'était nullement le cas des populations sédentaires citées en référence. Maintenant, si de Cliff ¨Palace, on regarde juste en face, on peut distinguer le p'tit trou dans la falaise qui tombe pile poil à l'endroit pour éclairer juste à l'endroit souhaité -- pas mal pour des semi-nomades...😉
Alain
Il leur manquait aussi la monnaie -- nous, nous avons les "bitcoins" désormais 😎
........... sauf juste un détail, ils ne connaissaient pas l'écriture, ce qui n'était nullement le cas des populations sédentaires citées en référence. Maintenant, si de Cliff ¨Palace, on regarde juste en face, on peut distinguer le p'tit trou dans la falaise qui tombe pile poil à l'endroit pour éclairer juste à l'endroit souhaité -- pas mal pour des semi-nomades...😉
Alain
Il leur manquait aussi la monnaie -- nous, nous avons les "bitcoins" désormais 😎
Salut Alain-Pierre et Caribou,
Au delà du caractère légèrement provocateur mais factuellement exact de mon propos, il est évident, que l'évolution d'une communauté ou d'une civilisation est liée aux échanges.
Les américains premiers vivant en totale autarcie (les échanges ne se faisant qu'avec d'autres communautés partageant la même culture) ne pouvaient pas évoluer au même rythme que les populations européennes ou asiatiques.
Maintenant il est assez rigolo d'entendre les rangers nous parler de préhistoire en parlant des anasazi... La notion de temps historique est un peu distordue des 2 côtés de l'océan!
C'est vraiment un sujet passionnant qui mérite d'être approfondi mais qui n'a pas vraiment sa place sur un forum de voyage 😉
Au delà du caractère légèrement provocateur mais factuellement exact de mon propos, il est évident, que l'évolution d'une communauté ou d'une civilisation est liée aux échanges.
Les américains premiers vivant en totale autarcie (les échanges ne se faisant qu'avec d'autres communautés partageant la même culture) ne pouvaient pas évoluer au même rythme que les populations européennes ou asiatiques.
Maintenant il est assez rigolo d'entendre les rangers nous parler de préhistoire en parlant des anasazi... La notion de temps historique est un peu distordue des 2 côtés de l'océan!
C'est vraiment un sujet passionnant qui mérite d'être approfondi mais qui n'a pas vraiment sa place sur un forum de voyage 😉
Arnho (dit Nono la sulfateuse)
Venez découvrir mes visions d'Amérique sur http://www.flickr.com/photos/arnhovoyage/
Les indiens connaissaient la roue.
Les enfants du Mexique et des Andes jouaient au cerceau.
Il n'en avaient juste pas l'utilité. En effet, pas d'animaux de trait en Amérique précolombienne.
Donc pas d'applications utiles.
Lire le fascinant bouquin de Charles C. Mann, 1491, un état des lieux juste avant l'arrivée des européens. Et la suite, 1493, à propos du fantastique bouleversement de leur arrivée. (le point de départ de la mondialisation)
Lire le fascinant bouquin de Charles C. Mann, 1491, un état des lieux juste avant l'arrivée des européens. Et la suite, 1493, à propos du fantastique bouleversement de leur arrivée. (le point de départ de la mondialisation)
When the going gets tough...
Pour Arhno :
Cf le livre de Charles C. Mann, 1491. L'organisation des civilisations présentes sur l'hémisphère occidental n'a rien à voir avec leur situation quelques années plus tard.
Petite mise en situation :
Imagine la France aujourd'hui... le 24 février 2013. Demain, sans le savoir, des extra-terrestres répandent sur nous des maladies mortelles. (grippes, variole, malaria etc etc... dans le cas des indiens)
Ces maladies déclenchent des pandémies qui déciment et désorganisent le pays. Le vide laisse la part belle aux arrivistes et autres bellicistes et opportunistes...
Tu laisse mijoter une dizaine d'années....
Et tu t'empare d'un pays avec une centaine d'hommes et soixante chevaux...
Et ne jamais oublier que Cortez n'a pas eu la partie facile lors de la conquête du Mexique. Limite de se faire rejeter à la mer...
Cf le livre de Charles C. Mann, 1491. L'organisation des civilisations présentes sur l'hémisphère occidental n'a rien à voir avec leur situation quelques années plus tard.
Petite mise en situation :
Imagine la France aujourd'hui... le 24 février 2013. Demain, sans le savoir, des extra-terrestres répandent sur nous des maladies mortelles. (grippes, variole, malaria etc etc... dans le cas des indiens)
Ces maladies déclenchent des pandémies qui déciment et désorganisent le pays. Le vide laisse la part belle aux arrivistes et autres bellicistes et opportunistes...
Tu laisse mijoter une dizaine d'années....
Et tu t'empare d'un pays avec une centaine d'hommes et soixante chevaux...
Et ne jamais oublier que Cortez n'a pas eu la partie facile lors de la conquête du Mexique. Limite de se faire rejeter à la mer...
When the going gets tough...
Il n'en avaient juste pas l'utilité. En effet, pas d'animaux de trait en Amérique précolombienne.
Donc pas d'applications utiles.
pas d'applications utiles?
La roue dans l'histoire de l'humanité ne s'est pas limitée à l'usage des transports.
Elle a été déterminante dans les progrès de l'agriculture (irrigation) dans l'architecture permettant le déplacement de gros monolithes et donc l'édification de grands monuments ou bâtiments...
Si les indiens connaissaient la roue, ils auraient pu alors aller plus loin que le jeu du cerceau.
Et là je ne parle pas des précolombiens mais des indiens d'Amérique du Nord au 17 ème siècle!
pas d'applications utiles?
La roue dans l'histoire de l'humanité ne s'est pas limitée à l'usage des transports.
Elle a été déterminante dans les progrès de l'agriculture (irrigation) dans l'architecture permettant le déplacement de gros monolithes et donc l'édification de grands monuments ou bâtiments...
Si les indiens connaissaient la roue, ils auraient pu alors aller plus loin que le jeu du cerceau.
Et là je ne parle pas des précolombiens mais des indiens d'Amérique du Nord au 17 ème siècle!
Arnho (dit Nono la sulfateuse)
Venez découvrir mes visions d'Amérique sur http://www.flickr.com/photos/arnhovoyage/
Pour avoir l'utilité de la roue, il faut avoir:
- Des animaux capables de tracter de lourdes charges sur de longues distances - Des voies de communications adaptées à ces attelages
Les indiens ne possédaient pas les premiers, donc n'ont pas eu à développer les seconds. Ils ont fait comme tout le monde, ils se sont démerdés avec les moyens du bord.
Donc : Rien au nord, et le lama au sud.
En conséquence, dans les Andes, construction de voies de communication adaptées à l'homme et au lama. Sans parler de l'altitude.
Mais bon, la roue c'est un truc pas trop important à mes yeux. Moins en tout cas que la méconnaissance de la métallurgie du fer (surtout dans les Andes).
- Des animaux capables de tracter de lourdes charges sur de longues distances - Des voies de communications adaptées à ces attelages
Les indiens ne possédaient pas les premiers, donc n'ont pas eu à développer les seconds. Ils ont fait comme tout le monde, ils se sont démerdés avec les moyens du bord.
Donc : Rien au nord, et le lama au sud.
En conséquence, dans les Andes, construction de voies de communication adaptées à l'homme et au lama. Sans parler de l'altitude.
Mais bon, la roue c'est un truc pas trop important à mes yeux. Moins en tout cas que la méconnaissance de la métallurgie du fer (surtout dans les Andes).
When the going gets tough...
la roue c'est un truc pas trop important à mes yeux.
Je ne suis pas totalement de ton avis Christophe, j'en reviens à l'irrigation. Le meilleur exemple de développement par l’irrigation ce sont les Sumériens qui sont partis de conditions très proches des indiens d'Amérique du Nord (peuples nomades, milieu aride..)
Avec l'aide de roues (des norias) vers - 400 avant JC, depuis les cours d'eau ils ont pu irriguer des milliers d'hectares sans traction animale, par la simple force du courant.
Maintenant, imaginons des indiens qui découvrent la roue = irrigation = stockage de nourriture = sédentarisation = marchés = villes = ports sur les côtes = échanges avec d'autres cultures... (sans parler de l'écriture, des progrès dans la métallurgie...)
A l'arrivée la donne aurait été bien différente lors des premières intrusions des conquistadors en Amérique du Nord (Californie) au 16ème siècle!
Ils seraient alors tombés sur des indiens beaucoup mieux organisés, éduqués, structurés, équipés, qui sait ce qui serait arrivé par la suite?
Tout ça pour dire qu'une simple roue peut faire la différence 😉
Je ne suis pas totalement de ton avis Christophe, j'en reviens à l'irrigation. Le meilleur exemple de développement par l’irrigation ce sont les Sumériens qui sont partis de conditions très proches des indiens d'Amérique du Nord (peuples nomades, milieu aride..)
Avec l'aide de roues (des norias) vers - 400 avant JC, depuis les cours d'eau ils ont pu irriguer des milliers d'hectares sans traction animale, par la simple force du courant.
Maintenant, imaginons des indiens qui découvrent la roue = irrigation = stockage de nourriture = sédentarisation = marchés = villes = ports sur les côtes = échanges avec d'autres cultures... (sans parler de l'écriture, des progrès dans la métallurgie...)
A l'arrivée la donne aurait été bien différente lors des premières intrusions des conquistadors en Amérique du Nord (Californie) au 16ème siècle!
Ils seraient alors tombés sur des indiens beaucoup mieux organisés, éduqués, structurés, équipés, qui sait ce qui serait arrivé par la suite?
Tout ça pour dire qu'une simple roue peut faire la différence 😉
Arnho (dit Nono la sulfateuse)
Venez découvrir mes visions d'Amérique sur http://www.flickr.com/photos/arnhovoyage/
Les amérindiens étaient rarement nomades avant l'arrivée des européens.
Certains peuples avait réussi à créer des royaumes structurés et important (Ex : Cahokia près de St Louis, Cliff dwellers en AZ et NM).
Ce sont les maladies qui précédaient les européens qui les ont fait fuir et ont fait d'eux des nomades.
Et les européens on vu des nomades.
Pour la culture, ils on su développer une agriculture presque sans irrigation, mais en combinant les plantes entres elles. (technique du ''milpias'' encore utilisée en meso-amérique).
Si tu ne prends pas en compte le fait que l'Europe à soumis des sociétés disloquées, amoindries et souvent en proie à la guerre civile. Par notre faute, mais sans l'intention de le faire.
un truc en plus ? voir là : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernando_de_Soto_(militaire)
Puis ça aussi : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
Ce sont les maladies qui précédaient les européens qui les ont fait fuir et ont fait d'eux des nomades.
Et les européens on vu des nomades.
Pour la culture, ils on su développer une agriculture presque sans irrigation, mais en combinant les plantes entres elles. (technique du ''milpias'' encore utilisée en meso-amérique).
Si tu ne prends pas en compte le fait que l'Europe à soumis des sociétés disloquées, amoindries et souvent en proie à la guerre civile. Par notre faute, mais sans l'intention de le faire.
un truc en plus ? voir là : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernando_de_Soto_(militaire)
Puis ça aussi : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
When the going gets tough...
Oui il faut distinguer les indiens nomades des grandes plaines des autres sédentaires ou semi-sédentaires (se déplaçant par manque de gibier ou à cause de l'appauvrissement de la terre).
Bon, on ne refera pas le monde ici et je vais lire avec attention tes suggestions. A mon tour de te proposer une excellente lecture, Go West de Jacquin et Royot chez Flammarion...
Au plaisir de te croiser sur le forum
Bon, on ne refera pas le monde ici et je vais lire avec attention tes suggestions. A mon tour de te proposer une excellente lecture, Go West de Jacquin et Royot chez Flammarion...
Au plaisir de te croiser sur le forum
Arnho (dit Nono la sulfateuse)
Venez découvrir mes visions d'Amérique sur http://www.flickr.com/photos/arnhovoyage/
bonjour,
En arrivant aussi en fin de matinée, sur le site, en juillet parcontre, est-il possible de ne plus avoir de visite guidée pour Cliff Palace? Est-ce vite complet? Jusqu'à quelle heure se font-elles (parcontre on peut attendre tard car on n'est pas pris par le temps en fin d'après-midi... Par avance merci
Ouest américain : road-trip multigénérationnel : https://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=7117430;#7117430 - tête-à-tête mère-fils, avril 2017 https://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=8104174;#8104174 - De Yellowstone à Disneyworld juillet 2018 https://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=9104079;a=9104079
Bonjour
Désolé aucune idée. Notre séjour s'est déroulé mi-juin et nous avions réservé en début de matinée pour la visite de 14h Vous trouverez les renseignements complets page 12 du lien ci dessous
http://www.nps.gov/meve/planyourvisit/upload/visitorguide_summerfall13c.pdf
Alain
Désolé aucune idée. Notre séjour s'est déroulé mi-juin et nous avions réservé en début de matinée pour la visite de 14h Vous trouverez les renseignements complets page 12 du lien ci dessous
http://www.nps.gov/meve/planyourvisit/upload/visitorguide_summerfall13c.pdf
Alain
merci! on avait peur d'arriver et de voir tout complet!
Ouest américain : road-trip multigénérationnel : https://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=7117430;#7117430 - tête-à-tête mère-fils, avril 2017 https://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=8104174;#8104174 - De Yellowstone à Disneyworld juillet 2018 https://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=9104079;a=9104079
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Hello everyone,
After our first trip as a young couple to the West in 2007 (yes, that doesn’t make us any younger!), we’re planning to go back in 2028, but this time as a family of four! (We have two boys who’ll be 5½ and 13 years old in the summer of 2028.)
Our plan is to combine a few big cities (SF and LA, maybe San Diego) with national parks and state parks, mostly! Ideally, we’d like to leave at the end of June and head back to France around July 19–20, so we can enjoy the first week of the Olympic Games in Los Angeles.
Since we already did the "loop" in 2007, there are must-see places we absolutely want to revisit—and especially share with our kids: Bryce Canyon, Yosemite, and above all, the Grand Canyon, which is still the most incredible thing I’ve ever seen on Earth!
On the other hand, some places didn’t leave a big impression on us for various reasons, so we’re not making them a priority: Antelope Canyon, Monument Valley, for example.
We’re planning ahead, but might as well be smart about it😏
Do you have any tips for a fun and doable itinerary over about 20–25 days with kids, without rushing?
Thanks in advance for your feedback😉
After our first trip as a young couple to the West in 2007 (yes, that doesn’t make us any younger!), we’re planning to go back in 2028, but this time as a family of four! (We have two boys who’ll be 5½ and 13 years old in the summer of 2028.)
Our plan is to combine a few big cities (SF and LA, maybe San Diego) with national parks and state parks, mostly! Ideally, we’d like to leave at the end of June and head back to France around July 19–20, so we can enjoy the first week of the Olympic Games in Los Angeles.
Since we already did the "loop" in 2007, there are must-see places we absolutely want to revisit—and especially share with our kids: Bryce Canyon, Yosemite, and above all, the Grand Canyon, which is still the most incredible thing I’ve ever seen on Earth!
On the other hand, some places didn’t leave a big impression on us for various reasons, so we’re not making them a priority: Antelope Canyon, Monument Valley, for example.
We’re planning ahead, but might as well be smart about it😏
Do you have any tips for a fun and doable itinerary over about 20–25 days with kids, without rushing?
Thanks in advance for your feedback😉
Hi everyone! 🙂
Just a quick question about King Canyon and Sequoia National Park.
Before our night in Miramonte, we plan to visit King Canyon. The next stop will be two nights in Three Rivers to explore Sequoia National Park. I wanted to go all the way to Roaring River Falls on the King Canyon Scenic Byway and then turn back to head to Miramonte. Since we’re coming from Oakhurst, Google Maps says it’s 300 km and 5 hours of driving. Since we also want to hike to see the sequoias (Big Stump Area and Grand Grove) before tackling the King Canyon Scenic Byway, the timing’s going to be tight. How far do you recommend going before turning back to miss as few points of interest as possible on the King Canyon Scenic Byway? Thanks for your advice, and have a great evening!
Marcalamar 🙂
Hi everyone!
After years of hoping, waiting, planning, then changing, saving, and searching for the best possible route... we're FINALLY off this summer for a 5-week road trip in the West.
I had planned a trip to Colorado in 2021 but canceled due to COVID, so with time passing and my eldest’s high school graduation approaching fast, I figured it was now or never!
Anyway, the itinerary has been modified and extended to please everyone (I’m no longer the only one making decisions!!)
Here’s our final route: Day 1 - 7/12/2026 - Brussels / Los Angeles Day 2 - 7/13/2026 - Los Angeles Day 3 - 7/14/2026 - Los Angeles Day 4 - 7/15/2026 - Los Angeles Day 5 - 7/16/2026 - Los Angeles Day 6 - 7/17/2026 - Los Angeles / Kingman Day 7 - 7/18/2026 - Kingman / Grand Canyon Day 8 - 7/19/2026 - Grand Canyon / Page Day 9 - 7/20/2026 - Page Day 10 - 7/21/2026 - Page / Monument Valley Day 11 - 7/22/2026 - Monument Valley / Durango Day 12 - 7/23/2026 - Durango Day 13 - 7/24/2026 - Durango Day 14 - 7/25/2026 - Durango Day 15 - 7/26/2026 - Durango / Glenwood Springs Day 16 - 7/27/2026 - Glenwood Springs Day 17 - 7/28/2026 - Glenwood Springs / Moab Day 18 - 7/29/2026 - Moab Day 19 - 7/30/2026 - Moab Day 20 - 7/31/2026 - Moab Day 21 - 8/1/2026 - Moab Day 22 - 8/2/2026 - Moab / Vernal Day 23 - 8/3/2026 - Vernal / Grand Teton Day 24 - 8/4/2026 - Grand Teton Day 25 - 8/5/2026 - Grand Teton / Cody Day 26 - 8/6/2026 - Cody / Yellowstone Day 27 - 8/7/2026 - Yellowstone Day 28 - 8/8/2026 - Yellowstone Day 29 - 8/9/2026 - Yellowstone Day 30 - 8/10/2026 - Yellowstone / Salt Lake City Day 31 - 8/11/2026 - Salt Lake City / Bryce Canyon Day 32 - 8/12/2026 - Bryce Canyon / Zion Day 33 - 8/13/2026 - Zion Day 34 - 8/14/2026 - Zion Day 35 - 8/15/2026 - Zion / Las Vegas Day 36 - 8/16/2026 - Las Vegas Day 37 - 8/17/2026 - Las Vegas / Los Angeles Day 38 - 8/18/2026 - Los Angeles Day 39 - 8/19/2026 - Los Angeles / Brussels Day 40 - 8/20/2026 - Brussels / Home
We’ll be alternating between house swaps, motels, and campgrounds. I’ve booked all the accommodations (except the campground at Bryce since sunset bookings open only 14 days in advance) and the first activities, as well as the most touristy ones.
I’m currently putting together my day-by-day roadbook and having some trouble planning certain days, like in LA or Las Vegas. Choosing hikes isn’t easy either—it’s tough to decide!
We’re really excited but could definitely use your help with choices and optimizations!!
I had planned a trip to Colorado in 2021 but canceled due to COVID, so with time passing and my eldest’s high school graduation approaching fast, I figured it was now or never!
Anyway, the itinerary has been modified and extended to please everyone (I’m no longer the only one making decisions!!)
Here’s our final route: Day 1 - 7/12/2026 - Brussels / Los Angeles Day 2 - 7/13/2026 - Los Angeles Day 3 - 7/14/2026 - Los Angeles Day 4 - 7/15/2026 - Los Angeles Day 5 - 7/16/2026 - Los Angeles Day 6 - 7/17/2026 - Los Angeles / Kingman Day 7 - 7/18/2026 - Kingman / Grand Canyon Day 8 - 7/19/2026 - Grand Canyon / Page Day 9 - 7/20/2026 - Page Day 10 - 7/21/2026 - Page / Monument Valley Day 11 - 7/22/2026 - Monument Valley / Durango Day 12 - 7/23/2026 - Durango Day 13 - 7/24/2026 - Durango Day 14 - 7/25/2026 - Durango Day 15 - 7/26/2026 - Durango / Glenwood Springs Day 16 - 7/27/2026 - Glenwood Springs Day 17 - 7/28/2026 - Glenwood Springs / Moab Day 18 - 7/29/2026 - Moab Day 19 - 7/30/2026 - Moab Day 20 - 7/31/2026 - Moab Day 21 - 8/1/2026 - Moab Day 22 - 8/2/2026 - Moab / Vernal Day 23 - 8/3/2026 - Vernal / Grand Teton Day 24 - 8/4/2026 - Grand Teton Day 25 - 8/5/2026 - Grand Teton / Cody Day 26 - 8/6/2026 - Cody / Yellowstone Day 27 - 8/7/2026 - Yellowstone Day 28 - 8/8/2026 - Yellowstone Day 29 - 8/9/2026 - Yellowstone Day 30 - 8/10/2026 - Yellowstone / Salt Lake City Day 31 - 8/11/2026 - Salt Lake City / Bryce Canyon Day 32 - 8/12/2026 - Bryce Canyon / Zion Day 33 - 8/13/2026 - Zion Day 34 - 8/14/2026 - Zion Day 35 - 8/15/2026 - Zion / Las Vegas Day 36 - 8/16/2026 - Las Vegas Day 37 - 8/17/2026 - Las Vegas / Los Angeles Day 38 - 8/18/2026 - Los Angeles Day 39 - 8/19/2026 - Los Angeles / Brussels Day 40 - 8/20/2026 - Brussels / Home
We’ll be alternating between house swaps, motels, and campgrounds. I’ve booked all the accommodations (except the campground at Bryce since sunset bookings open only 14 days in advance) and the first activities, as well as the most touristy ones.
I’m currently putting together my day-by-day roadbook and having some trouble planning certain days, like in LA or Las Vegas. Choosing hikes isn’t easy either—it’s tough to decide!
We’re really excited but could definitely use your help with choices and optimizations!!
Hello.
I’d like to travel along I-15N from San Diego to Las Vegas with my mom, who’s 67. We’ve explored Northern California and the California Coast over the past two years and now want to continue through the desert.
There are several attractions along the way: - Mormon Rocks - Desert Discovery Center and visit the Old Woman meteorite - Joshua Tree National Park - Mojave Desert - Mojave National Preserve - Anza-Borrego Desert State Park - Silverwood Lake
My mom has back issues that prevent her from hiking or walking on trails with elevation changes. Is it possible to visit these places by car, or are the routes flat enough?
I’d love for her to experience the desert with an itinerary adapted to her condition. I’m also open to other points of interest that aren’t mentioned. We have 3-4 days for the trip, so we’re not in a rush—just want to explore.
Thanks so much. The trip would be in fall 2026
There are several attractions along the way: - Mormon Rocks - Desert Discovery Center and visit the Old Woman meteorite - Joshua Tree National Park - Mojave Desert - Mojave National Preserve - Anza-Borrego Desert State Park - Silverwood Lake
My mom has back issues that prevent her from hiking or walking on trails with elevation changes. Is it possible to visit these places by car, or are the routes flat enough?
I’d love for her to experience the desert with an itinerary adapted to her condition. I’m also open to other points of interest that aren’t mentioned. We have 3-4 days for the trip, so we’re not in a rush—just want to explore.
Thanks so much. The trip would be in fall 2026
Hi there,
I’d love to take a road trip and visit Nova Scotia. I’d appreciate some info on the best cities to see and the most interesting spots. The trip should last about 10 to 15 days, staying in hotels or motels. Thanks in advance!
I’d love to take a road trip and visit Nova Scotia. I’d appreciate some info on the best cities to see and the most interesting spots. The trip should last about 10 to 15 days, staying in hotels or motels. Thanks in advance!
Hi everyone,
Quick question—I’m heading to New York soon and I’d love to know if you guys have any recommendations for websites where I can buy concert tickets?
Quick question—I’m heading to New York soon and I’d love to know if you guys have any recommendations for websites where I can buy concert tickets?
Hi there,
We’re being relocated to Saint Pierre and Miquelon. We’ll be taking the flight from Nantes to Montreal and then from Montreal to Saint Pierre. Could you recommend a hotel near the departure terminal that allows dogs?
Thanks!
We’re being relocated to Saint Pierre and Miquelon. We’ll be taking the flight from Nantes to Montreal and then from Montreal to Saint Pierre. Could you recommend a hotel near the departure terminal that allows dogs?
Thanks!
Hi,
My 16-year-old son is flying to Grand Rapids with other kids his age. There’s a layover in Detroit. There’s no unaccompanied minor service available. Is it pretty easy to navigate Detroit Airport to catch the connecting flight to Grand Rapids (domestic flight)? There are several of them who speak English well.
Thanks for your replies,
Good evening, everyone! 🙂
Just a few last questions to wrap up our Lake Tahoe visit plans.
**Parking:** We’d like to walk to Eagle Falls and then Eagle Lake. I’ve spotted two parking lots that seem close to each other and give access to the trailhead. Where and how do we pay for entry to Emerald Bay State Park and Inspiration Point?
**Viewpoints on the East Side:** Are most of the viewpoints (Balancing Rock, Granite Cave, Bonsai Rock, etc.) right by the road, or do you have to hike to reach them?
**Donner Memorial State Park:** Is it worth making a detour to Truckee to visit this park and the Truckee historic downtown?
Thanks in advance for your tips! 🙂
**Parking:** We’d like to walk to Eagle Falls and then Eagle Lake. I’ve spotted two parking lots that seem close to each other and give access to the trailhead. Where and how do we pay for entry to Emerald Bay State Park and Inspiration Point?
**Viewpoints on the East Side:** Are most of the viewpoints (Balancing Rock, Granite Cave, Bonsai Rock, etc.) right by the road, or do you have to hike to reach them?
**Donner Memorial State Park:** Is it worth making a detour to Truckee to visit this park and the Truckee historic downtown?
Thanks in advance for your tips! 🙂
Hi there. I'm shocked by the price of the Upper Antelope Canyon tour—$175 for less than an hour… You might say, "if you can’t afford it…" But the real question is whether it’s really worth it, because $350 for two makes me feel like I’m getting ripped off. For those who’ve done both Lower and Upper, can you tell me if the price difference is really justified? Thanks
Hi everyone! 🙂
As you can see, we're heading back from September 6th to the 27th.
Everything’s booked for September—flights, accommodations, and the car. As I plan, I’ll be asking the experts for help. This is our second trip to California, but most of the stops are new to us.
We’ll start directly from San Francisco to our first overnight stop, Davis, before heading to Lassen Volcanic Park for 4 nights. Our flight lands at 12:50 PM.
Here’s our itinerary: Day 1: Davis – overnight stop Day 2: Red Bluff – exploring Lassen Volcanic Park (scenic drive to Lake Helen) Day 3: Susanville – scenic drive through the park via the South Entrance, points of interest, and hikes Day 4: Susanville – Cinder Cone and Painted Dunes hike Day 5: Susanville – Warner Valley (hikes) Day 6: South Lake Tahoe Day 7: South Lake Tahoe Day 8: Mammoth Lake Day 9: Mammoth Lake Day 10: El Portal via Tioga Road Day 11: El Portal Day 12: El Portal Day 13: Oakhurst Day 14: Miramonte Day 15: Three Rivers Day 16: Three Rivers Day 17: Coalinga Day 18: Monterey Day 19: Monterey Day 20: San Francisco Day 21: San Francisco Day 22: Departure
For hikes in Lassen Volcanic Park, I’ve planned: Bumpass Hell, Cold Boiling Lake (Day 2) Paradise Meadow (maybe not going all the way), Devastated Area, and the loop around Reflection and Manzanita Lakes (Day 3) Cinder Cone and Painted Dunes (Day 4) Devil’s Kitchen and Boiling Spring Lake (Day 5)
I’ve read there are trails to access the trailheads for Cinder Cone (11 km) and Warner Valley. Are these easy trails for an SUV? Are there any other must-see spots or things we shouldn’t miss?
That’s where I’m at for now. Thanks for your replies, and have a great evening! Marcalamar 🙂
Here’s our itinerary: Day 1: Davis – overnight stop Day 2: Red Bluff – exploring Lassen Volcanic Park (scenic drive to Lake Helen) Day 3: Susanville – scenic drive through the park via the South Entrance, points of interest, and hikes Day 4: Susanville – Cinder Cone and Painted Dunes hike Day 5: Susanville – Warner Valley (hikes) Day 6: South Lake Tahoe Day 7: South Lake Tahoe Day 8: Mammoth Lake Day 9: Mammoth Lake Day 10: El Portal via Tioga Road Day 11: El Portal Day 12: El Portal Day 13: Oakhurst Day 14: Miramonte Day 15: Three Rivers Day 16: Three Rivers Day 17: Coalinga Day 18: Monterey Day 19: Monterey Day 20: San Francisco Day 21: San Francisco Day 22: Departure
For hikes in Lassen Volcanic Park, I’ve planned: Bumpass Hell, Cold Boiling Lake (Day 2) Paradise Meadow (maybe not going all the way), Devastated Area, and the loop around Reflection and Manzanita Lakes (Day 3) Cinder Cone and Painted Dunes (Day 4) Devil’s Kitchen and Boiling Spring Lake (Day 5)
I’ve read there are trails to access the trailheads for Cinder Cone (11 km) and Warner Valley. Are these easy trails for an SUV? Are there any other must-see spots or things we shouldn’t miss?
That’s where I’m at for now. Thanks for your replies, and have a great evening! Marcalamar 🙂
Here's a tip for future visitors!
https://www.foxnews.com/travel/3-national-parks-slash-red-tape-americans-boldly-transforming-visitor-entry
https://www.foxnews.com/travel/3-national-parks-slash-red-tape-americans-boldly-transforming-visitor-entry
Hi everyone,
I’m a total USA addict. I’ve already done several road trips, including the East Coast and West Coast. I’m here today because I’m planning to go back for another road trip on the West Coast. Possibly with one of my sisters and a couple of friends. It’s still just a plan for now, but I’m working on an itinerary in the meantime. Ideally, I’d leave in 2026, but I don’t have the exact dates yet—maybe April-May or September-October. My last trip to the West Coast was in September 2014. We went for 2 weeks, but this time it’d be 3 weeks. What made me want to go back was simply a colleague who just left today. As I’m writing this, he’s on the plane. I’m so happy for him, but now all I can think about is going back.
Since I recently went to NY, I noticed that prices have really gone up. I assume the same is true for the West Coast? For 2 people over 3 weeks, what budget should I expect? We’re the type to watch our spending and find great tips. I think we’ll arrive in San Francisco like the first time and leave from either Los Angeles or Las Vegas.
Thanks to everyone for your advice and help.
I’m a total USA addict. I’ve already done several road trips, including the East Coast and West Coast. I’m here today because I’m planning to go back for another road trip on the West Coast. Possibly with one of my sisters and a couple of friends. It’s still just a plan for now, but I’m working on an itinerary in the meantime. Ideally, I’d leave in 2026, but I don’t have the exact dates yet—maybe April-May or September-October. My last trip to the West Coast was in September 2014. We went for 2 weeks, but this time it’d be 3 weeks. What made me want to go back was simply a colleague who just left today. As I’m writing this, he’s on the plane. I’m so happy for him, but now all I can think about is going back.
Since I recently went to NY, I noticed that prices have really gone up. I assume the same is true for the West Coast? For 2 people over 3 weeks, what budget should I expect? We’re the type to watch our spending and find great tips. I think we’ll arrive in San Francisco like the first time and leave from either Los Angeles or Las Vegas.
Thanks to everyone for your advice and help.
Merci de me conseiller pour la réservation pour la plus belle vue faut il réserver une chambre dans l'hôtel ou choisir une cabane ?
Prendre le petit déjeuner ou pas ?
Que pensez vous du restaurant ?
Hello, if the off-the-beaten-path enthusiasts are still around 😉, I’d love some info on tackling these trails. I’m not super familiar with the rules, risks, or what to expect—I’m looking for firsthand experience from folks who’ve done it on their own once or multiple times.
Hi everyone!
I’m planning a week-long family trip to NYC in October 2026. The focus is on museums and soaking up the New York vibe. I’ve been checking Airbnb, but the prices in Manhattan are through the roof. Since I don’t know NYC well, is it "wise" to look outside Manhattan? Any neighborhoods you’d recommend?
Hello,
After our first trip to the West, we’d love to go back to see other must-see spots!
The stay would be from May 11 to 20, 2026—it’s short, but hey...
M11: Lyon to Las Vegas (overnight in Vegas) T12: Route 66 – overnight in Grand Canyon (GC) W13: Visit GC – overnight in Page Th14: Visit Antelope Canyon / Horseshoe Bend – overnight in Monument Valley (MV) F15: Visit MV – overnight in Moab Sa16: Visit Arches / Dead Horse Point – overnight in Bryce Su17: Visit Bryce – overnight in Zion M18: Visit Zion / Valley of Fire – overnight in Vegas Tu19: Return flight
What do you think? Could we add one more night somewhere? We’re not big hikers, so we’ll mostly explore the parks using shuttles.
Also, we’re all set—passports are good. Do you think one classic Visa card and one premium Visa card will be enough for coverage?
Thanks so much for your feedback, and happy holidays!
Christophe
After our first trip to the West, we’d love to go back to see other must-see spots!
The stay would be from May 11 to 20, 2026—it’s short, but hey...
M11: Lyon to Las Vegas (overnight in Vegas) T12: Route 66 – overnight in Grand Canyon (GC) W13: Visit GC – overnight in Page Th14: Visit Antelope Canyon / Horseshoe Bend – overnight in Monument Valley (MV) F15: Visit MV – overnight in Moab Sa16: Visit Arches / Dead Horse Point – overnight in Bryce Su17: Visit Bryce – overnight in Zion M18: Visit Zion / Valley of Fire – overnight in Vegas Tu19: Return flight
What do you think? Could we add one more night somewhere? We’re not big hikers, so we’ll mostly explore the parks using shuttles.
Also, we’re all set—passports are good. Do you think one classic Visa card and one premium Visa card will be enough for coverage?
Thanks so much for your feedback, and happy holidays!
Christophe
Hi North America forum crew,
Just a little post that might interest some of you:
Travelers to the United States | Photo Now Mandatory Upon Entry and Exit | La Presse
Hi everyone.
I assume many of you already know, but the America the Beautiful annual pass, which was $80, will increase to $250 starting January 1, 2026.
So if you're planning to travel before the end of December 2026, it's in your best interest to buy your pass in December 2025, since it will still cost $80 and be valid until the end of December 2026 if you purchase it in December 2025.
This price increase only applies to non-U.S. residents.
Additionally, for those who planned to visit just one park, a $100 surcharge per person will apply to access a list of 11 national parks... For example, if there are 4 of you in a car, you’ll have to pay $35 + $400, which comes to $435 to visit one of the 11 parks on the list (I don’t have all of them... Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Grand Teton, etc.). Total madness.
The goal is to push people who only visit one park into buying the annual pass.
Last point: free entry days are over for non-residents!
That’s all for now.
I assume many of you already know, but the America the Beautiful annual pass, which was $80, will increase to $250 starting January 1, 2026.
So if you're planning to travel before the end of December 2026, it's in your best interest to buy your pass in December 2025, since it will still cost $80 and be valid until the end of December 2026 if you purchase it in December 2025.
This price increase only applies to non-U.S. residents.
Additionally, for those who planned to visit just one park, a $100 surcharge per person will apply to access a list of 11 national parks... For example, if there are 4 of you in a car, you’ll have to pay $35 + $400, which comes to $435 to visit one of the 11 parks on the list (I don’t have all of them... Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Grand Teton, etc.). Total madness.
The goal is to push people who only visit one park into buying the annual pass.
Last point: free entry days are over for non-residents!
That’s all for now.
Hi everyone, I’m traveling to Los Angeles and would like to rent a vehicle at the airport. However, I have a Boursobank Ultim deferred debit card, so I’d love to know if it’s possible for those who’ve experienced this recently. Thanks for the info!
Hi VF community,
I’m planning a week in S.F. in April 2026 and I can’t figure out how to tell the cable cars—of which I understand there are three lines—apart from the trams, which I think number seven. I can’t find their individual numbers or routes anywhere.
Could someone shed some light on this for me? Thanks in advance.
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and a wonderful 2026 full of amazing travels. Cheers, Régine
I’m planning a week in S.F. in April 2026 and I can’t figure out how to tell the cable cars—of which I understand there are three lines—apart from the trams, which I think number seven. I can’t find their individual numbers or routes anywhere.
Could someone shed some light on this for me? Thanks in advance.
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and a wonderful 2026 full of amazing travels. Cheers, Régine
Hi,
I’m planning a road trip through the American national parks starting from Denver in June 2026.
The price of the pass is jumping from 80 € to 250 € on January 1st, 2026!!!
Is it possible to buy the pass online before the end of the year to lock in the 80 € rate? If so, where and how do I go about it?
Thanks for your tips.
Arnale
Hi there,
I’m planning a road trip for July 2026 in northern Florida. Could you let me know if my itinerary makes sense? Day 1: Orlando Day 2: Amelia Island Day 3: Amelia Island Day 4: Tallahassee Day 5: Panama City Beach Day 6: Panama City Beach (visit to Destin) Day 7: Crystal River (stop in Cedar Key on the way) Day 8: Crystal River Day 9: Anna Maria (stop in Clearwater) Day 10: Anna Maria (St. Pete) Day 11: Anna Maria Day 12: Orlando Day 13: Orlando Day 14: Orlando Day 15: Departure
Thanks in advance for your tips!
I’m planning a road trip for July 2026 in northern Florida. Could you let me know if my itinerary makes sense? Day 1: Orlando Day 2: Amelia Island Day 3: Amelia Island Day 4: Tallahassee Day 5: Panama City Beach Day 6: Panama City Beach (visit to Destin) Day 7: Crystal River (stop in Cedar Key on the way) Day 8: Crystal River Day 9: Anna Maria (stop in Clearwater) Day 10: Anna Maria (St. Pete) Day 11: Anna Maria Day 12: Orlando Day 13: Orlando Day 14: Orlando Day 15: Departure
Thanks in advance for your tips!
Hey everyone!
We just finished 9 days in the American West and wanted to share our experience because we had an amazing time.
I know some of you might ask, why use an agency? Honestly, we didn’t really feel like doing all the driving and planning, especially since we didn’t know the area at all. And since our English isn’t great, having French-speaking guides was a big comfort.
We found Emmanuelle and Isabelle, and wow, they were fantastic. It was just the two of us with them, so it was a truly VIP, ultra-personalized experience. They treated us like royalty from start to finish. These two live in Las Vegas and know the region like the back of their hand. They told us they’ve spent over 15 years exploring every corner of the American West, and it really shows. Their knowledge of geology, park history, and local anecdotes is just impressive. It’s nothing like someone reciting a memorized script. They answer all your questions and really adapt to what you want to see or do.
What we really loved: the vehicle was super comfortable, and the little details made a difference—like snacks and even a homemade cake! Though, to be fair, we devoured the cake right away, so that counts.
Since they know the sites inside out, they took us at the right times to avoid crowds. So we could enjoy peaceful picnics at Grand Canyon viewpoints without being packed in with 200 people. Plus, on top of the must-see spots, they showed us some hidden gems that were absolutely stunning—places we never would’ve found on our own. They’re true locals who know all the best tips.
The service was really personalized. They adapted to our pace and preferences, and we could stop whenever we wanted to take photos. It’s the luxury of being in a small private group—you’re not just a number on a big bus. In short, we really felt like we were traveling with friends rather than professional guides. Everything’s included in the price (hotel pickup, meals, park entries, etc.), so the value for money is fair.
We loved it so much that we’re already planning to come back next year to explore other areas with them. I think we’ve caught the American West bug—it’s all we can think about, and we can’t wait to return.
If you’re looking for a French-speaking tour with real personalized service and guides who know the region like no one else, we highly recommend them. We had unforgettable moments. They also design road trips for those who don’t want a guide. And they handled our hotel reservations in Las Vegas too. If you want genuine advice from friendly locals, we’re giving them a 200% recommendation!
We just finished 9 days in the American West and wanted to share our experience because we had an amazing time.
I know some of you might ask, why use an agency? Honestly, we didn’t really feel like doing all the driving and planning, especially since we didn’t know the area at all. And since our English isn’t great, having French-speaking guides was a big comfort.
We found Emmanuelle and Isabelle, and wow, they were fantastic. It was just the two of us with them, so it was a truly VIP, ultra-personalized experience. They treated us like royalty from start to finish. These two live in Las Vegas and know the region like the back of their hand. They told us they’ve spent over 15 years exploring every corner of the American West, and it really shows. Their knowledge of geology, park history, and local anecdotes is just impressive. It’s nothing like someone reciting a memorized script. They answer all your questions and really adapt to what you want to see or do.
What we really loved: the vehicle was super comfortable, and the little details made a difference—like snacks and even a homemade cake! Though, to be fair, we devoured the cake right away, so that counts.
Since they know the sites inside out, they took us at the right times to avoid crowds. So we could enjoy peaceful picnics at Grand Canyon viewpoints without being packed in with 200 people. Plus, on top of the must-see spots, they showed us some hidden gems that were absolutely stunning—places we never would’ve found on our own. They’re true locals who know all the best tips.
The service was really personalized. They adapted to our pace and preferences, and we could stop whenever we wanted to take photos. It’s the luxury of being in a small private group—you’re not just a number on a big bus. In short, we really felt like we were traveling with friends rather than professional guides. Everything’s included in the price (hotel pickup, meals, park entries, etc.), so the value for money is fair.
We loved it so much that we’re already planning to come back next year to explore other areas with them. I think we’ve caught the American West bug—it’s all we can think about, and we can’t wait to return.
If you’re looking for a French-speaking tour with real personalized service and guides who know the region like no one else, we highly recommend them. We had unforgettable moments. They also design road trips for those who don’t want a guide. And they handled our hotel reservations in Las Vegas too. If you want genuine advice from friendly locals, we’re giving them a 200% recommendation!
Hello,
I’m currently looking for well-located hotels near points of interest in the cities below. I’ve found a few, but the prices are really high. Could any of you share some great addresses in the following cities? - Los Angeles - Las Vegas - San Francisco
Also, do you have a preferred airline for domestic flights? If so, which one?
Thanks so much, and have a great day, everyone!
Gertjan
I’m currently looking for well-located hotels near points of interest in the cities below. I’ve found a few, but the prices are really high. Could any of you share some great addresses in the following cities? - Los Angeles - Las Vegas - San Francisco
Also, do you have a preferred airline for domestic flights? If so, which one?
Thanks so much, and have a great day, everyone!
Gertjan






