3 weeks in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, preliminary travel questions

Okay, that’s not all... but the flight to Bishkek—does it fly over Russia or (and) Ukraine? Anyway, just saying, but in the end, the Tosor Pass isn’t *that* risky... right? 😏😏😏

No, it’s from Istanbul !😉

I watched some recent videos of Tosor, I’ll pass...

You can’t even see the road in some places!

On the other hand, the start and the end are fine...

I’m looking at rental vehicles.

From what I understand, it’s best to avoid the Lada Niva for reliability reasons.

What would be the best option for my route?

A Rav4 (under 8 years old) A Subaru Forester (under 8 years old) A Subaru Outback (under 8 years old) A Toyota FJ Cruiser (almost 20 years old)

Thanks! 🙂

A Lada Niva. 🙂

Why, since this model is supposed to be unreliable?

To match the Soviet side of the country?

Hi Agnès... I had two Nivas... The first model in 1977... yeah, that’s a while back (were you even born yet? 😏) and the other in 1983, which I kept for 15 years without any major issues... after that, I switched to something bigger. Nivas go everywhere—short gearbox, so you can climb and cross rough patches if needed. They’re less spacious than other models and less comfortable on paved roads... but you’re an adventurer, not a bourgeois on vacation yet... 😉

I met two girls in Kyrgyzstan in 2016 who rented a Niva... they were thrilled they could go anywhere.

Hey Jean Pierre, 😉

Not sure. Since your last purchase, the Soviet empire has kinda fallen apart... Is the Putin model still that solid...? We’re total noobs when it comes to mechanics...

I rented a Lada (not a Niva) in Armenia. No issues with the engine, but every time I braked, the passenger seat slid forward...

I was actually leaning toward the Subaru Outback.

I remember some South Africans laughing at FJs, saying they were only good for going to the opera.

Where I live, in Haute-Savoie, there are a few Nivas driving around without any issues—much to their owners' delight... They're pretty recent models (compared to mine). It's rustic but really great for this kind of country... Again, it's not super comfortable, but definitely more capable if you need to tackle rough mountain tracks. I've seen tons of them during my recent trips across Russia, and Lada just released a model with an integrated camper cell, so Nivas still have a future ahead! ;) That said, there’s probably a significant price difference between all these models—I’d guess the Niva is well-priced.

The Rav 4 is at $55, Subarus at $60, and the FJ at $70.

Not such a huge price difference after all.

It's with the Nissan Patrol or the Toyota 4Runner that you really jump up a notch ($100).

This rental company doesn’t offer the Niva, but others do. The price is around 60 €.

I’ll pass on the Duster at $93...

I get the feeling that rental companies targeting tourists are significantly more expensive than those aimed at locals...

Some even require 5 years of driving experience.

There must have been some damage caused by Westerners!

There are also UAZ vehicles for rent. One rental company mentioned they stopped offering them because cars made in Russia aren’t reliable. They also said the Niva is the exception that proves the rule!

The Niva doesn’t have AC, but I don’t think that’ll be a dealbreaker for my route, even if it gets a bit hot on the plains. The heating is the most important thing...

UAZ vehicles aren't necessarily recent models, and I've often seen them broken down on the tracks in Mongolia... usually, the passengers wait while the driver, who's used to repairs, gets everything back in working order. So yeah, these vehicles endure a lot of stress and have seen better days—makes sense!

They're pretty easy to fix... if you're a mechanic. Mongolian drivers definitely are

No AC in the Niva... but the heating is super effective! !

The showdown’s probably gonna be between the Subaru Outback and the Niva!

The Subaru’s bigger, which is handy if I wanna bring some camping gear like chairs, a small table, etc.

I’ve got some questions about Mongolia in a couple of years...😛

Hello,

Sorry for only checking in sporadically... I had to go make sure the elephants were doing okay.

A UAZ... I love it, it's super spacious and comes with daily "mechanical activity" included. With about one to two hours of maintenance a day, it runs pretty well 😉

A Toyota FJ for $70 USD seems odd—it should be way more expensive, in my opinion. But if it's confirmed, it's a great choice.

We’ve already rented a RAV4 before and were happy with it.

In these countries, I wouldn’t skimp on vehicle quality 😉

Hey Jef,

Welcome back from Africa! 🙂

The FJ is 20 years old, while the others are more recent.

Plus, I think those are off-season rates...

It should be more expensive during peak season.

Hi,

If you say the FJ is 20 years old, is it because that’s how it was presented to you? Toyota FJ70s were still being made until very recently.

Michel

In countries like these, the websites list the year of the vehicles.

Rarely the latest model like with Hertz, Avis, etc., which only rent vehicles they don’t actually own but acquired through leasing. That’s also why they’re so obsessed with the tiniest scratch these days.

Rental companies that own their vehicles are becoming a rare find! !

Are you sure it's not the model year? The year of first registration seems a bit odd to me. A 20-year-old rental vehicle...

Michel

There’s an older thread.

How is it indicated, for example, for your FJ70? I took a look myself. There is indeed a year listed, but it's not very clear whether it's the vehicle registration year or the model phase or series.

Michel

Alright, the flight ticket is booked!

Next step: the car and a few hotels.

The itinerary should look like this:

Bishkek for 2 nights Chon Kemin via the Burana Tower Bokonbaievo via Konorchek Canyon and/or Kok Moinok Canyon Karakol via Skaza Canyon – 2 nights Barskon via Jeti Oguz – 2 nights (Arabel High Valley toward the Kumtor mine) Kochkor Song Kol via the Teskey Torpok Pass Tash Bashat via the Moldo Ashuu Pass At Bashy with a detour to Bolgart Valley Baetov via Tash Rabat and the Mels track Jalal-Abad Toward Sary Mogul Lake Tulpar yurt camp – hiking Osh Arslanbob Toktogul Suusamyr Ala Archa Final night in Bishkek (early morning flight)

Should I bring euros in cash on top of card withdrawals? Any standout restaurant memories in the country? (The good kind...) Any hotels/guesthouses to avoid or prioritize?

For guesthouses, if I show up without booking in the late afternoon, is that usually okay? (There are countries where if no one’s booked, there might not even be anyone around...) Some places are still very rustic...

Thanks!

Before heading up to Lake Tulpar, stop by the CBT in Sary-Mogol https://cbtkyrgyzstan.kg/en/cbt-groups/tos-sary-mogol/ to book a yurt and meals. In Sary-Tash, you’ll find a hostel, an ATM, and fuel. It’s a small village. In Sary-Mogol, there are guesthouses. Check if the bridge is passable to cross the river. Your itinerary is ambitious, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. Don’t forget to check the spare tire, keys, and the jack on the day you rent the vehicle. If you can, grab a wooden block to put under the jack.

Hi Christian,

For Tulpar Kol, I’m planning to book one night here. The site says "Easy Access: Our camp is accessible by any type of vehicle"?

Your itinerary is ambitious, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I’m thinking of skipping Arslanbob and Kyzyl-Oi to take a more relaxed route back to Bishkek from Tulpar Lake.

The issue is finding accommodations that aren’t too over-the-top outside of Osh and Jalal-Abad (we won’t be camping).

Yandex Maps seems to have more reviews and options than the Western ones like Google Maps...

Instagram seems to be the preferred social network for hosts—pretty unusual for me!

If you can grab a wooden plank to put under the jack.

Noted! !😉

hello My biggest regret is not having gone to Lake Kel-Suu... if that gives you any ideas...😉

Hey Pépereju 😉

You know there’s a photo contest on lakes right now 😛 I think your picture is sooo beautiful !

The area is a bit too remote (collapsed bridges)... And now the plan is all set, so don’t try to confuse me! 😉

The only part that isn’t fixed yet is the return trip between Lenin Peak and Bishkek. Over 5 nights.

Hi Kate... That’s a beautiful photo indeed—I’m not the one who took it, though. I found it online to inspire Agnès 😉

Planning to climb Lenin Peak? 😉 If you've got 5 days before Bishkek... why not take a detour to Tajikistan and hit the trails on the Pamir high plateaus? In three days from the border, you can do an amazing loop... in my opinion, even more beautiful than Kyrgyzstan... 😉

Huh? I went off on a tangent again

Yeah, Lenin Peak as a warm-up then Everest! 😛

There isn’t much online about the western part of the country.

Well, even less than about the eastern part...

Tourism is starting to take off, though, given the new guesthouses popping up here and there, but it seems to be mostly Russian-speaking tourism, so nada for searches in Latin characters...

Since I live in Haute-Savoie and I'm a fan of high-mountain hikes—on foot, skis, or even by 4x4—I didn’t find Kyrgyzstan all that exotic. On the other hand, the Pamir Highway really won me over. You can check out the little video I made for some 4x4 forum members. Though I guess you’ve probably already seen it.

https://youtu.be/ipkIpiZBAxs?si=wwfQWgc2rW_XbB9w

Great idea to go to Tajikistan instead of covering kilometers in Kyrgyzstan with less interest compared to the Pamir. You’re going to Murghab—you’ll see the container market, the snow leopard park, and then on to the astronomical observatory. I totally agree with you: the High Pamir is another dimension. That’s why we’ve been there twice and are ready to go back!!

@Atilla The border isn’t a particular problem if you take it easy.

For Tulpar Kol, I planned to book one night here. The site says "Easy Access: Our camp is accessible by any type of vehicle"?

Snow, rain, or storms—make sure to check the weather ahead of time, you’ll be at over 3,000 meters. For weather forecasts: https://zoom.earth/

I’m thinking of skipping Arslanbob and Kyzyl-Oi to take a more relaxed route back to Bishkek from Tulpar Lake.

Perju’s suggestion for the Pamir in Tajikistan instead of western Kyrgyzstan is interesting. We’ve met travelers who cross into the Pamir with rental cars. You’ll cross the two borders quickly—the first night, you’ll stay in Karakul with its lake and the stunning panorama of the Pamir’s high peaks. The second night, you’ll be in Murghab, where you can see an authentic high-mountain village in the Pamir, its container market, the snow leopard refuge, and then you can head to the abandoned astronomical observatory. Along the way, you might spot some petroglyphs.

The problem is finding accommodations that aren’t too "rococo" outside of Osh and Jalal-Abad (we won’t be camping).

A lot of travelers use the Ioverlander app. The "rococo" accommodations are the real deal—deep in the country’s traditions, far from touristy vibes.😉

Instagram seems to be the preferred social network for hosts—it’s pretty unusual for me!

I don’t have any social media accounts, so I don’t know much about this practice. You can find info in the CBTs.

@Perju When Attila gets back from her trip, she’ll buy a travel vehicle to hit the road. You’ll be in a great position to give her tips.😏

That’s it, we’re done with the Pamir! 😡😉

We might travel through there again another time, but this trip will be 100% Kyrgyz! 😛

The rental car can only be driven in Kyrgyzstan, and there are already so many landscapes to admire in this country! (Even if it’s a bit too alpine for Perju’s taste... I don’t care, I don’t have that kind of scenery in stock near my place! 😆)

For the weather, I picked this region at the end of June to be in summer. Still, I’ve already experienced a snowstorm in the Alps in August, so I know anything’s possible...

As for rococo accommodations, there’s definitely been an upgrade in recent years with brand-new, more comfortable places. (More expensive too, though...) But this improvement doesn’t seem to have reached this region yet... Some accommodations feel like a leap into the unknown—no mention on Western websites...

I have a feeling this trip might end up a bit like my Georgia adventure over 10 years ago in terms of nights! Nothing on paper, but a few great surprises upon arrival!

I didn’t have an Instagram account. Or WhatsApp. But for this trip, I’ve gotten into both. All the new accommodations promote themselves on Instagram, and tourism operators run everything through WhatsApp. I couldn’t find a single traditional hotel website (outside of big cities, and even then...), let alone email addresses.

I’m trying not to book too many nights in sketchy places. Been there once in India—it’s depressing! Plus, it’s not just the accommodations that are lacking in this country; the food’s an issue too... I think we’ll end up declaring ourselves vegetarians to avoid old mutton...

This trip’s shaping up to be quite different from usual! We’ll see how it goes when we’re back...

Yet it's the easiest access to get to the High Pamir.

I found the guesthouse for your first night in Karakul in the Pamirs. Don’t forget your night cap!

I think it's better to sleep in the car...😏

No regrets, you know we can't see everything on our trips. Looking back, you would've had this view (before the snow fell on our way back to the truck)

Still, it's at least a 4-star in this region. Ask the cyclists and bikers about their impressions of this guest-house with hot water in a pot heated by dried yak dung. You’re really not making it easy for yourself.

I think it's better to sleep in the car...😏

Sleeping is one thing... there's also the hygiene aspect...😏 Have a good trip....

in this country, there's the food too... I feel like we're gonna declare ourselves vegetarian to avoid the old mutton...

Avoid the old yak too....

Nature offers better hygiene options...

In the end, those rococo guesthouses aren’t so bad after all! !😄

Hello Jean Pierre,

The Pamir is a whole different trip... forgotten tracks except on old Soviet-era maps, and you’d better be ready to camp at high altitudes (over 4,000 meters for quite a while). As for the facilities, I remember a lovely guesthouse in the Wakhan Valley where you had to hold your breath just to use the toilet 🤪

Hi Agnès,

Sorry I’ve been around so little lately. I really loved the "end of the world" vibe in Sary Tash... but there’s still a grocery store, gas station, and exchange bureau. It might be worth taking the road toward Tajikistan—the views are gorgeous. You can always turn back before the border post.

Couldn’t you leave the car in Osh and fly home from there?

Hey Jef, 🙂

It might be nice to take the road heading toward Tajikistan

Toward Kyzyl Art? Isn’t a border permit needed to drive all the way to the border?

My route doesn’t include any permit-required zones, so I won’t have one.

The detour should be doable—it only adds 70 km. 😉

Couldn’t you leave the car in Osh to head back from there?

I guess anything’s possible if you pay.

But my flight ticket’s already bought, so if I return the car in Osh, I’d have to take a domestic flight! (And miss the Suusamyr Valley, Toktogul, etc.)

vallée de Suusamyr

No, don’t miss it! I thought you were covering this area on the way there. So yes, you should definitely return by car :)

I don’t know where you’ve been hanging out in the area, Perju, but there are definitely some less sketchy options than yours for sleeping...😄







I’m still struggling to find what I’m looking for near Baetov, though...

We had stayed with Maria... but she didn’t seem to be very active on social media.

Myrza?

There’s a brand-new guesthouse listed on Booking, but I’m wary of using Booking for some reservations in Kyrgyzstan.

It’s showing me accommodations near Baetov that aren’t anywhere near there...

Darn, my phone changed Mirza to Maria! There were quite a few options for memory cards on the spot, so I’d try without a reservation. If it’s like in Asia, Agoda is better established than Booking

Darn, my phone changed Mirza to Maria!

But haven't you guys seen Mirza?

I'm heading out...