Currency exchange while traveling: why do some still carry wads of cash?
FR

Translated into English.

AT Atila Globetrotter ·
So you either need to bring cash or bring your own food...

This company must be losing money if they can't offer a card payment service.

Which one is it?
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
This is about Finnlines, a Finnish company in a country where card payments are preferred in all situations.

Michel
TR Traplina Regular ·
I booked the hotels...

I just don’t give my bank—or anyone else—the right or the ability to know which country I’ve gone to visit. That’s nobody’s business. In this age of overly intrusive and nosy social media and technology, I like to keep my freedom of movement.

I get the idea, and I respect all ways of thinking. Yes, it’s legitimate to question how our personal data is used, even if for me, it’s a losing battle as soon as you use the internet.

That said, you withdraw cash from ATMs when you’re not traveling—even that’s info for your bank.

And I just hope you’re not looking up hotels on booking sites from your phone or computer, and especially that you don’t use—or even bring—your phone abroad, or even to Papeete for that matter.

I also hope you’re not signed up for any sites, government or private, and that you never browse any social media—or even any website—to be truly sure...

I just don’t give my bank—or anyone else—the right or the ability to know which country I’ve gone to visit. That’s nobody’s business.

Fair enough, but you’re literally listing the countries you’ve traveled to on this site...
MA Masterpo Globetrotter ·
Il s'agit des paiements à bord....

Of course, there will always be cases where nothing beats cash. The plumber who wants to be paid under the table will still demand cash. But overall, when it comes to work or administrative services, digitalization is growing like crazy. The use of cash is following the same trend. I only do my shopping with Apple Pay now, both abroad and in France. Except at Franprix—they’re a bit behind 😛
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
Hi there,

It’s true that if everyone starts paying for everything with bank cards, we’re basically speeding up the end of cash ourselves.

This makes me think of shops—everyone complains that jobs are disappearing (especially cashiers), but at the same time, they’re pushing for self-checkout machines and online payments to settle purchases...
FL Florimond45 ·
I know Argentina well... the most dangerous are the official taxis, which claim your bills are counterfeit by doing sleight of hand and give you small change back. In Buenos Aires, Uber exists in part.
VA Vaikeaiti Regular ·
Hi Alain,

I see you’ve got me cornered there… and you’re right! Like everyone else, I’m under the watchful eye of Big Brother tech, even if I’m less so than others. I’ve significantly cut my yearly banking fees by using cash, even when I’m not traveling. I never make card payments under 30 €. When I travel, if necessary, I only deal with local travel agencies I can pay in cash. I have one or two credit cards just in case, but I almost never use them while traveling. And I don’t stay in sketchy neighborhoods or third-rate hotels. I take precautions in every situation—for example, I book a private taxi if I arrive late at night in a country flagged as ‘difficult,’ like Nicaragua or Guatemala. Some might call me paranoid, but it’s actually pretty smooth in practice. And from chatting here and there with other French travelers or foreigners, I’m not the only one who does things this way.

Moana
VM
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
I only shop with Apple Pay now, both abroad and in France.

I’m afraid you’re way ahead of me on this one.

I wonder how people who still rely on cash payments will manage when even cards become obsolete
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
So I’ll plan to bring my own picnic and a ticket if I ever fly with this airline.

That could actually be a whole separate discussion: where in the world can you only pay in cash?
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
Good evening Attila,

I wonder how those who still rely on cash payments will manage when even cards become obsolete

That won’t happen anytime soon in France. And in a way, that’s a good thing. The end of cash would mean the end of our freedoms...

The "hustle," as you call it, is a way for people like me—of modest means—to get by day to day. Paying or getting paid under the table is, for many of us, sometimes the only way to escape financial hardship.

As for the *real* hustlers—the white-collar ones—they don’t hesitate to maintain a lifestyle funded by dirty money, mastering the system perfectly. But shhh... we’re not supposed to talk about them...

In conclusion, when that day comes (the end of cash), I hope I won’t be around anymore...
VA Vaikeaiti Regular ·
Hi there,

Totally on the same page as what you just wrote... The end of cash means the end of our individual freedoms. The countries leading the charge in phasing out cash aren’t the ones you’d expect. Instead, they’re supposedly very democratic nations but with tight digital control over their populations: Norway, Sweden, the Baltic states (especially Estonia), and Finland (though the latter adopted the euro...). We’re still far from that, largely thanks to the Germans, who are very attached to banknotes and see the current euro as the equivalent of their old mark. They’re obsessed with currency devaluation and have bad memories... Go to Germany, and you’ll see people happily paying with 200 € bills. Try that in a French supermarket, and you’ll get some interesting reactions... To answer another contributor’s question about where it’s possible, recommended, or advantageous to pay in cash: I’d say all of Central America (use US dollars, especially small bills like $1, $5, $10, and $20, and pay for hotels with $50 or $100 bills), Latin America (especially Colombia and Argentina right now), Turkey (where the lira has collapsed and euros are accepted at favorable rates for hotel stays), Southeast Asia..., and Greece, where cash is also popular. So be wary of the constant misinformation on this topic. The French finance ministry would love to eliminate cash in France too, all to monitor citizens more closely and track how they spend their money... Privacy laws still protect us a little, but for how long?

Moana
VM
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
The end of cash would mean the end of our freedoms...

For conspiracy theorists, not for the rest of us.

Paying or getting paid under the table is, for many of us, sometimes a way to escape financial difficulties

No. It’s refusing to take part in society. It’s stealing from those who do.

Your under-the-table deal, I’m the one paying for it. I don’t necessarily want to.

Whether it’s small or big schemes, morally, it’s exactly the same thing.

Not admitting it is just burying your head in the sand.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
I wonder if the groundhog gets paid in cash or chocolate?

' Central America (use US dollars, especially small bills of $1, $5, $10, and $20, and pay hotels with $50 or $100 bills), Latin America (especially Colombia and Argentina right now), Turkey (where the lira has collapsed and euros are accepted at favorable rates for hotel stays), Southeast Asia..., Greece where people love cash aus

Not true for Southeast Asia. (ATMs available) Not true for Latin America in general, even if Venezuela and Argentina might be exceptions. (ATMs available) Not true for Turkey (there are ATMs) Not true for Greece (ATMs everywhere)

In the case of Greece, it’s not nice at all for the locals who live there and can’t or don’t want to work under the table to have to accept cash payments.

Just because paranoid people and those dealing in dirty money want to exchange their euros is one thing, but it being a necessity is another.

A necessity is when you have no other choice or in a country that’s completely collapsing.

Myanmar during the blockade. Venezuela.

You’re mentioning many regions plagued by drug money or institutional black markets.

By refusing to participate in one system—that of our democracies—you end up participating in another. That’s your choice.
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
For the conspiracy theorists, not for others.

Obviously, if you still believe that those who hold the keys to power in our societies make decisions for the good of all and in the general interest, with total and transparent sincerity, there's nothing I can do for you...

No. It’s refusing to participate in society. It’s stealing from those who make the effort.

Your under-the-table work, it’s me who pays for it. I don’t necessarily want to.

Whether small or large schemes, morally, it’s exactly the same thing.

Not admitting it is burying your head in the sand.

You’re spreading the same rhetoric as those we usually call the "guard dogs of the system"... Shaming ordinary people by putting them on the same level as those who, however, take advantage of it shamelessly and with complete impunity.

This discourse that points fingers at "small-time fraudsters," and without shame tells us that if the local artisan or shopkeeper ends up doing a few hours or jobs under the table because they struggle to make ends meet with the meager income they earn from their activity compared to what’s taken from them every month, they’d be a "thief" who "takes advantage" of society.

Morally, this rhetoric makes me sick.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
I’m not trying to make anyone feel guilty. I’m just reminding you who you are.

I don’t get why that bothers you. You’ve got to own your choices.
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
No, the arrogance and self-righteousness in your words just highlight your own ideology.

I fully stand by mine, but I find it surreal and absurd to be called a thief when all I’m doing is lamenting the sorry state of our corrupt societies—where indecency and hypocrisy have reached their peak... especially when it’s coming from a sanctimonious rant defending a system that’s completely upside-down, then turning around to lecture us about "democracy."
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
If you’re assuming you don’t want to take part in the social contract and steal from those who do, things are clear.

Our societies are indeed corrupt. You’ve admitted to being part of that.

It can’t be easy wanting to fight against yourself.
SN Snakeyes Regular ·
Hi there,

"In the age of zero-commission cards and fee-free accounts..." Simply put... The answer is in your question— not everyone has a zero-commission card or a fee-free account! Sure, you save pennies compared to the total cost of a trip, but I just like not paying more than necessary for expenses.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Why, when it's so easy to open one?

Out of loyalty to your bank? Too lazy? Generosity toward the financial system? Because 100 € more or less doesn’t matter?
DE Deborah75001 Veteran ·
It's funny because I pretty much only use cash

The fees on ATM withdrawals and card payments seem high to me.

In Thailand, it's 400 Baht per withdrawal, so 12 €!

I'm with Société Générale and the fees are steep... unless you're in the EU eurozone!
SN Snakeyes Regular ·
So I guess I'm not in the know... which bank do you use? I don’t know of any bank that doesn’t charge fees for withdrawals abroad!
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
Hi Snakeyes,

With online banks, you’ve got N26 or MaFrenchBank, among others. Check out the earlier posts where someone shared a comparison of online banks.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Personally, I use Fortuneo. But there are others.

A link earlier in the discussion gives some leads.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
The same link shows a fee of 220 baht per withdrawal for a possible amount of 30,000 baht.

That’s 0.73%.

Seems pretty negligible to me.

Which bank charges 400 baht?
TR Traplina Regular ·
For many of us, paying or getting paid under the table is sometimes a way to escape financial difficulties.

As for the real schemers in white collars, they don’t hesitate to maintain a lifestyle fueled by dirty money.

They steal, so I steal—quite the political platform...
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
The proportions just aren't the same. Neither are the needs or the reasons, for that matter. So much so that in one case, you can really talk about theft. In the second case, it's an inevitable consequence of the first.

Still, a craftsman or shopkeeper struggling to make a living because the little they manage to earn is taken away immediately—and who, as a result, resorts to working a few extra hours or charging for certain services under the table—can't be put on the same level as those who scheme millions (if not more) and face no consequences!

We're definitely not living on the same planet...
TR Traplina Regular ·
We’re definitely not living on the same planet...

Right now, I’m living in Argentina. Corruption is widespread at every level of society (though there are worse places in South America). At the highest levels of government, no matter the political side, they stash millions of dollars because in pesos, it’s just not worth it. Big companies stash millions of dollars abroad because keeping it inside the country isn’t worth it. Small business owners, collectively, stash millions of dollars under the mattress. I know some civil servants—low-level ones, not the big shots—who barely show up to work and still get paid. It’s shocking how many people want to pay a small tradesperson with a proper invoice. Every player in the economy, big or small, in restaurants, at markets, in kiosks, has a payment terminal, and phone-to-phone payments are common. But everyone pushes for cash payments. It’s even posted in shops, hotels, restaurants, and supermarkets: so much by card, 20% off in cash. It’s said that 40% of the economy is underground.

So, which came first—the chicken or the egg? Honestly, I don’t know.

But the country has become economically ungovernable...

When I was in France, I was self-employed, and there’s no easier status for quietly working off the books.

I’m one of the few suckers who always declared my turnover down to the last cent, even when paid in cash. And that doesn’t stop me from thinking it’s outrageous to see multinationals practicing such high levels of tax evasion.

Once again, stealing because they steal doesn’t seem like a solution—it’s the fastest path to populism...
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
If taxes were distributed more fairly and equitably... If salaries were paid what they’re truly worth... If the cost of living were cheaper and less unequal...

Then working under the table as a self-employed worker, artisan, or shopkeeper probably wouldn’t be necessary, and the world would spin the right way. But since that’s clearly not on the agenda, I find it out of place to lecture those who are just trying to get by.
TR Traplina Regular ·
...I find it inappropriate to moralize those who are just trying to get by.

I’m not moralizing—I’m sharing my point of view, just like you’re sharing yours, which I also find inappropriate!

I’m just trying to get by too...
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
Alright, I get it. So, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one...
HE Henon21 Veteran ·
Good evening

"No problem finding an ATM if you know how to use Maps.me or similar." I’ve been traveling for several years now, and while the number of ATMs has increased in many countries, they’re usually located in tourist areas. During my last two trips to Northern Vietnam and Northern Laos, I often went 10–15 days without an ATM within 30 or 40 km. Sometimes, in the far north of Vietnam, they wouldn’t even accept the national currency and preferred Chinese Yuan. I’m one of those people who travels with cash and exchanges it at jewelry stores or other places that offer better rates than ATMs or banks (especially in Southeast Asia). Exchange rules vary by country, though. To each their own! Eric
HENON Eric
DE Deborah75001 Veteran ·
You're right—it's 200-250 baht per ATM withdrawal in Thailand, fees from the Thai bank. But then you still have the French bank fees, which are usually even higher.

Plus, cash can be exchanged everywhere. It's easy to get a great rate if you know the right banks or exchange offices.

Bottom line: for me, plastic still doesn’t work as well as bills.

I put them in a special plastic pouch that goes in the shower, underwater, in the sea—you can even wear it while diving. Zero risk :)
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
I put them in a special plastic pouch that goes in the shower, under water, in the sea—you can even wear it while diving. Zero risk :)

I’ve never tried it myself, but I can say that at equal humidity, dollars hold up better than francs! 😏 (jungle experience in Colombia). With euros, I don’t know, but I’d rather leave them at my hotel or with my hosts than take them diving!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
then you still have the fees from the French bank, which are usually even higher.

Uhhh... Are you sure you read the topic?

There are no fees. It’s over. Just open an account with one of the banks that offers this service and forget about the ones that don’t for your trips.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
I’m one of the rare idiots who’s always declared my earnings down to the last cent

Don’t worry. You’re not alone.

Tax dodgers aren’t the majority yet.

When that day comes, France will become Argentina.
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
If wages were paid what they’re truly worth... If the cost of living were cheaper and less unequal...

If wages were higher, the cost of living would be too...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
During my last two trips to Northern Vietnam and Northern Laos, I often stayed for periods of 10/15 days without an ATM within 30 or 40 km.

Yes. But before reaching those remote areas, didn’t you pass through less isolated places with Dab?

When I go to a remote spot, I make sure to withdraw the money I’ll need beforehand.
MO Mondusthan Regular ·
If salaries were higher, the cost of living would be too...

All the more reason to distribute taxes more fairly than they are today. And then we’re surprised that some people can’t make ends meet in our country...
DE Deborah75001 Veteran ·
Oh? Which bank, for example, charges no commission or foreign exchange fees abroad?
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Reread the thread and you’ll find the info...
DE Deborah75001 Veteran ·
So get this—I bought a hermetically sealable plastic pouch at Decathlon for about ten euros, which was meant for an iPhone, but I use it for cash, my bank card, and even my passport, and there’s been ZERO moisture in 3 years! 😊

For just 10 €, I’ve kept my travel money safe for three years—pretty good deal, right?

Honestly, I mostly do snorkeling, so I wouldn’t vouch for how waterproof the pouch is if you’re diving deep.
MA Masterpo Globetrotter ·
I bought a hermetically sealable plastic pouch for about ten euros at Decathlon that fits an iPhone

Something like this? 😇
RO Rouxon ·
It’d be great to list the countries where you need cash. I don’t know any yet.

So you don’t know about Iran and the shenanigans of the American head clown?
Je veux une vie riche, pas une vie de riche.
HE Henon21 Veteran ·
Hi

Yeah, I withdrew money in Paris before leaving and exchanged it in Ha Noi at a jewelry shop so I wouldn’t be stuck without Vietnamese dong during my trip when there’s no ATM in sight. Everyone’s got their own method!
HENON Eric
DE Deborah75001 Veteran ·
There you go, exactly! :)

These waterproof pouches are perfect for swimming with all your valuables without leaving them on the beach or at the hotel. :)
DE Deborah75001 Veteran ·
There are 13 pages... I’ve opened quite a few but it’s hard to read everything. N26 isn’t great. Fortunéo or Boursorama? Apparently, the perks are mostly for new customers and don’t last long...

So I haven’t found a bank that charges zero fees... or can you give me a quick summary? :)
GR Groschats Veteran ·
Fortunéo or Boursorama? Apparently, the benefits are limited to new customers and don’t last long...

So I haven’t found a bank that offers zero fees... or can you give me a summary? :)

I’d say you didn’t quite get it... But you were right to say "apparently"... 😁... Fortunéo is free if you meet the only condition: make one payment or withdrawal per month (no minimum). And if you know how to use the referral system, you’ll earn 230 € in your first year...

I don’t get why you and a small group of conspiracy theorists are so determined to claim some banks charge fees... 🙄
Qui écoute trop la météo, passe sa vie au bistrot !
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
The topic of Iran has already been mentioned in this thread.
DE Deborah75001 Veteran ·
meh

I already have an account at Société Générale and one at La Poste, so opening another account that also forces me to do transactions when I don’t need to—and I’d definitely forget about it...

I stick with my preference for cash—it’s simpler for me.

Just to be safe, I always have a Visa card that I still use for online purchases.
JE Jephimo ·
It’d be helpful to list the countries where cash is still necessary. I don’t know any yet.

Hi! Iran is a good example—we had to bring enough cash for three weeks (meals, sightseeing, etc.). This was back in April–May 2019: thanks to U.S. sanctions, there was no way to use a bank card. Plus, with the runaway inflation at the time (probably still going on!), we ended up carrying millions in our pockets, which wasn’t an issue with the warm, welcoming locals. In some parts of Cambodia and India, the lack of banks or ATMs made cash—euros, dollars, or local currency—a must. Best, JP
Eppur si muove (attrib. à Galileo Galilei)

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