Remonter la Loire à vélo en juin
by G1537
This discussion is in French, the community’s main language.
Original post
Bonjour,
J'envisage de remonter la loire a vélo de st nazaire au mont gerbier en juin 2012 avec vtc et remorque mono-roue.
Je crois que jusqu'a nevers , c'est bien baliser et on suit la loire au plus près, mais j'aimerais savoir ce qu'il en est ensuite jusqu'a sa source.
Je pense qu'il n'y a plus de chemin de halage, donc il doit y avoir de petites routes sympas vallonnées avec de petits pourcentages!!!!
Si quelques uns d'entre vous pouvaient me donner quelques tuyaux(campings, villages, sites a voir etc..), je suis preneur.
Sinon, une autre question qui n'a rien a voir avec la loire, mais la vilaine.
De redon a rennes le chemin de halage est- il praticable?
Je vous remerci a l'avance
Cordialement
Gilles
Bonjour , oui de Redon à Rennes le halage est praticable pour un vélo chargé , même avec remorque. Mais c'est très inégal, revêtement de terre ou de sablé compacté tout au long , mais roulant cependant sauf à l'arrivée un peu avant Apigné ( presqu'en arrivant à Rennes ) , c'est un chemin cahotique réservé aux VTC, VTT. Sinon le reste est bien, avec de très belles portions , suivant les communes et d'autres beaucoup à l'abandon....Mais je suis passé l'été dernier en tandem , quatres sacoches + remorque bien chargée sans casse....
Bonne préparation.
Bonjour,
Merci pour ta réponse aussi rapide, je ne connaissais pas cette portion.
Ce sera au moi de mai , un avant gout de la loire, je pars de st nazaire jusqu'à dinard et retour par voie verte guer- ploermel -questembert
1 vtc avec sacoches et l'autre avec remorque, nous avions fait l'année dernière nantes brest aller et retour par le canal, super!!
Bonnes vacances a toi
Bonjour
J'ai 2 adresses à partager :
- le camping de St Ay (45 Loiret), un camping tout simple avec une vue magnifique sur la Loire. C'est rive droite (à gauche pour toi) 10 kms en aval d'Orléans qui mérite un arrêt notamment pour sa très belle cathédrale.
- plus luxieux, une chambre d'hôte à l'accueil remarquable de Jacques le propriétaire
http://www.leretour.fr/index.html
C'est à Francillon, près de Blois. A 4 kms au nord de la Loire via La Chaussée St Victor. A 6 kms du centre ville de Blois et de son château célébrissime qui vaut la visite.
A côté des chambres, il y a une salle où l'on peut cuisiner.
Bon voyage !
Henri
À chaque fois que je vois un adulte sur une bicyclette, je ne désespère plus de l’espèce humaine - H.G.Wells
http://rando-boisetcollines.hautetfort.com/
Je crois que jusqu'a nevers , c'est bien baliser et on suit la loire au plus près, mais j'aimerais savoir ce qu'il en est ensuite jusqu'a sa source.
Attention du côté de Chateauneuf/Loire (entre Orléans et Gien dans le Loiret) ce n'est pas bien indiqué. De plus entre Chateuneuf/Loire et Sully/Loire je trouve que la D60 est plus jolie que le parcours de la Loire à vélo (la D60 longe la Loire alors que le parcours se "perd"dans les champs environnants). Un camping que j'ai découvert l'an dernier dans le secteur : celui de St Benoît/Loire (pas très cher et endroit très agréable). J'aime bien aussi le camping de Gien (l'emplacement du camping et la ville sont sympas, prix raisonnable). Celui de Briare est très correct (d'ailleurs à Briare il ne faut pas manquer de passer sur le pont canal à vélo). je suis aussi allé au Camping de Châtillon/Loire. Il n'est pas cher, propre, calme mais il ne m'a pas plu plus que ça. Camping de la Charité/Loire : il m'a bien plu (emplacement agréable, prix correct, ville sympa). Camping de Bourbon-Lancy très correct (peut être un peu plus cher mais raisonnable, ville sympa) Camping de Cosne/Loire : pas allé car il me semble qu'il est cher (à vérifier). Sinon j'ai fait le trajet entre Redon et Rennes mais je n'ai pas du tout suivi le canal (j'ai fait une partie du canal de Nantes à Brest de Avant Mûr de Bretagne à Pontivy et ensuite une partie du canal du Blavet mais ça m'a lassé. Pas que ce n'est pas joli mais au bout d'un moment longer un canal pour moi c'est lassant). J'ai trouvé des petites routes jusqu'au camping de Rennes (contournement de Rennes) et j'ai trouvé ça bien.
Attention du côté de Chateauneuf/Loire (entre Orléans et Gien dans le Loiret) ce n'est pas bien indiqué. De plus entre Chateuneuf/Loire et Sully/Loire je trouve que la D60 est plus jolie que le parcours de la Loire à vélo (la D60 longe la Loire alors que le parcours se "perd"dans les champs environnants). Un camping que j'ai découvert l'an dernier dans le secteur : celui de St Benoît/Loire (pas très cher et endroit très agréable). J'aime bien aussi le camping de Gien (l'emplacement du camping et la ville sont sympas, prix raisonnable). Celui de Briare est très correct (d'ailleurs à Briare il ne faut pas manquer de passer sur le pont canal à vélo). je suis aussi allé au Camping de Châtillon/Loire. Il n'est pas cher, propre, calme mais il ne m'a pas plu plus que ça. Camping de la Charité/Loire : il m'a bien plu (emplacement agréable, prix correct, ville sympa). Camping de Bourbon-Lancy très correct (peut être un peu plus cher mais raisonnable, ville sympa) Camping de Cosne/Loire : pas allé car il me semble qu'il est cher (à vérifier). Sinon j'ai fait le trajet entre Redon et Rennes mais je n'ai pas du tout suivi le canal (j'ai fait une partie du canal de Nantes à Brest de Avant Mûr de Bretagne à Pontivy et ensuite une partie du canal du Blavet mais ça m'a lassé. Pas que ce n'est pas joli mais au bout d'un moment longer un canal pour moi c'est lassant). J'ai trouvé des petites routes jusqu'au camping de Rennes (contournement de Rennes) et j'ai trouvé ça bien.
Salut,
De Nevers à Digoin, tu as le choix, l'eurovelo 6 (la Loire à vélo) mais qui à mon gout emprunte un peu trop les routes "voitureuses" et le halage du canal latéral de la Loire qui passe sans problème à peu près partout.
De Digoin à Roanne tu as le canal de Roanne à Digoin (étonnant non!) qui est praticable à VTC avec parfois des tronçons un peu herbeux (si tu as la chance de rouler après le passage de la tondeuse de VNF!).
Enfn la partie Roanne jusqu'à la source est décrite dans "La Loire de la Source à l'estuaire" aux éditions du vieux crayon.
La description du trajet fait en 2009 avec quelques idées d'hébergement sur http://www.velocanauxdodo.fr/ (y'a aussi la Villaine).
Bonnes balades
De Nevers à Digoin, tu as le choix, l'eurovelo 6 (la Loire à vélo) mais qui à mon gout emprunte un peu trop les routes "voitureuses" et le halage du canal latéral de la Loire qui passe sans problème à peu près partout.
De Digoin à Roanne tu as le canal de Roanne à Digoin (étonnant non!) qui est praticable à VTC avec parfois des tronçons un peu herbeux (si tu as la chance de rouler après le passage de la tondeuse de VNF!).
Enfn la partie Roanne jusqu'à la source est décrite dans "La Loire de la Source à l'estuaire" aux éditions du vieux crayon.
La description du trajet fait en 2009 avec quelques idées d'hébergement sur http://www.velocanauxdodo.fr/ (y'a aussi la Villaine).
Bonnes balades
Salut Gilles
Pour ce qui est de l'escapade de mai en Bretagne, la voie verte de Ploërmel à Questembert est un vrai régal: beau bitume, plat, peinard etc... nous l'avons faite en avril 2005 (voir j2) et en gardons un très bon souvenir.
Pour ta rando de juin nous avons par 2 fois suivi la Loire; en particulier en juin 2010 en partant de La Sicaudais (pas très loin de St Nazaire) jusqu'à Digoin (voir de j1 à j12), là nous avons quitté la Loire pour aller vers la Suisse mais sur le chemin du retour nous sommes passés par le mont Gerbier de Jonc (voir j40). Effectivement tu rencontreras des bosses mais la région vaut le détour...
Dans nos 12 premiers jours nous avons apprécié particulièrement les campings de : St Florent le Vieil, Langeais, Beaugency, Chateauneuf s Loire, Briare, Saint Satur, Fourchambault, Pierrefitte s Loire. A ne pas rater en route le pont canal de Briare (même avis que "Leloops"), les châteaux tout le long de la route etc... et la star: La Loire.
Si cela peut t'aider tu peux consulter nos randos avril 2005 et juin 2010 (aux jours indiqués plus haut)... ici
Bonne préparation et surtout bonnes randos Yvon
Bonne préparation et surtout bonnes randos Yvon
A velorandoa2 : Impressionnant le nombre de circuits, les photos, et la description !
Il y a quelques kilomètres au compteur !
Riton & Gabbie
À chaque fois que je vois un adulte sur une bicyclette, je ne désespère plus de l’espèce humaine - H.G.Wells
http://rando-boisetcollines.hautetfort.com/
Merci Riton ...
les "km au compteur" sont nettement moins importants que le plaisir de la découverte, du partage, des rencontres, des échanges etc... En fait après visite de ton blog j'ai vu que nous avions la même "philosophie" (si j'ose dire) et beaucoup de points communs...
J'espère que nos routes se croiserons un jour... pour cet été Anne et moi prévoyons un tour des Pyrénées... et toi et Gabbie: un projet dans les cartons?
Yvon
En fait après visite de ton blog j'ai vu que nous avions la même "philosophie" (si j'ose dire) et beaucoup de points communs...
J'espère que nos routes se croiserons un jour... pour cet été Anne et moi prévoyons un tour des Pyrénées... et toi et Gabbie: un projet dans les cartons?
Yvon
Bonjour Yvon Pour cet été, de la Sologne à la Bretagne, en s'attardant dans le Nord du Finistère. C'est parce que nous longerons certains rives de la Loire que cette discussion nous intéresse et que je prends des notes. Tout cela est bien loin donc des Pyrénées. Bon voyage. Riton et Gabbie
Bonjour Yvon Pour cet été, de la Sologne à la Bretagne, en s'attardant dans le Nord du Finistère. C'est parce que nous longerons certains rives de la Loire que cette discussion nous intéresse et que je prends des notes. Tout cela est bien loin donc des Pyrénées. Bon voyage. Riton et Gabbie
À chaque fois que je vois un adulte sur une bicyclette, je ne désespère plus de l’espèce humaine - H.G.Wells
http://rando-boisetcollines.hautetfort.com/
Je ne peux pas te répondre G1537 car pour moi se sera une grande première. Je vais faire une partie du trajet, à compter du 17 juin mais dans l autre sens en partant de Nevers et pense m arrêter au bout de 6 jours à Tours ou ses environs. Je fais cette partie de route avec mon frère lequel n a pas non plus la moindre idée de ce qui nous attend. En ce qui nous concerne nous allons suivre l'itinéraire donné dans le livre La Loire à Vélo édition Chamina.
Peut être aurons nous la chance de nous croiser. Il sera simple de nous reconnaitre, deux cinquantenaires à VTT avec une remorque 2 places de couleur rouge.
Bonne route à toi.
Peux être y aura t il d autres forumeur sur ce tronçon dans la même période ??
dans ce cas bonne route à vous également.
Cordialement
Patrick
Bonjour,
J'espère que votre périple fut réussi.
Nous prévoyons de faire en Aout quasi le même trajet que vous, en famille (avec 3 petites). De Nevers à Blois.
Je serai ravie d'avoir vos avis sur les campings, et la qualité des revêtement et du circuit.
Merci d'avance.
Marie
Famille Ducret
Entre Blois et Beaugency (c'est la parcelle que je connais très bien puisque j'y habite^^)
Si vous voulez surtout la Loire ne pas hésiter a prendre les chemins de bord de Loire qui ne sont pas indiquer comme La Loire à Vélo puisque ce n'est pas goudronner mais bien plus agréable que les pistes cyclables sur le bord des route parfois... à la sortie de Blois ne vous trompez surtout pas, prenez le premier chemin qui sors de la route car elle est très dangereuses, nous y roulons la plupart du temps entre 90 et 120km/h pour certain... Pour les campings vous en avez un à Blois (je ne sais plus le nom mais c'est dans le sens Blois vers Beaugency juste à la sortie) puis deux à Muides-sur-Loire (ou j'habite^^) (2ètoiles qui est directement en bord de Loire et 4 étoiles beaucoup plus luxueux) puis à Nouan-sur-Loire (équivalent a celui de Muides) puis un sur Beaugency... Pas besoins de reserver généralement... et dans les petites communes vous avez des épiceries ouvertes tout les jours et assez tard... Sinon il y a le détour par le chateau de Chambord qui a mon sens vaut le détour (entre Blois et Muides-sur-Loire)
Voila... Je vous verrais sans doute passer devant la maison armer de votre attirail de nomades a vélo...
Bon séjour
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Nath
I’ve got my flight ticket sorted—departing in mid-November and returning in mid-March. I’ll arrive in Santiago and leave from Buenos Aires. I’ve already been to southern Argentina, specifically Torres del Paine National Park, and I’d love to go back to do the full W trek (I only did the shorter version last time). I also want to do some hiking and maybe even tackle a summit. I climb and occasionally do some mountaineering, so I’ll definitely be going with a guide.
I plan to start around Temuco in Chile, with the idea of heading toward the lakes, then taking the Carretera Austral. I’m not sure if I’ll go all the way to Ushuaia—it’s supposed to not be *that* worth it, except for the bragging rights of saying you’ve been to the end of the world.
I saw there are lakes in Argentina too.
I don’t have a precise itinerary, but what I’d love is, once I reach the southernmost point of my trip, to take a mini-cruise to see some wildlife. Any tips for that?
What kind of sleeping bag did you take? Is a 0°C (32°F) one enough? And one last question: white gas stove or can I get by with my gas stove?
Nath
I'm developing a free and open-source web app for planning walking and cycling trips (and even car trips). You can create a route by clicking directly on the map to add waypoints, and it can consist of multiple stages. The app provides tools to edit the stages and the overall route, and to display useful information (distances, altitudes, and elevation changes). A relief profile can be shown as a graph for a specific stage or the entire route.
Once the route is ready, it can be exported as a GPX file, which can then be used with a GPS or a mobile navigation app.
The app is built in JavaScript and runs entirely in the web browser. It uses the Leaflet library and several OpenStreetMap-based services. Initially developed for my personal needs (I enjoy hiking and cycle touring), I’d be happy to share it with anyone who might find it useful. It’s free to use, doesn’t require an account, and the source code is available.
Source code: https://github.com/patricklmarie/GPX-Route-Planner Online demo: https://patricklmarie.github.io/GPX-Route-Planner/
Once the route is ready, it can be exported as a GPX file, which can then be used with a GPS or a mobile navigation app.
The app is built in JavaScript and runs entirely in the web browser. It uses the Leaflet library and several OpenStreetMap-based services. Initially developed for my personal needs (I enjoy hiking and cycle touring), I’d be happy to share it with anyone who might find it useful. It’s free to use, doesn’t require an account, and the source code is available.
Source code: https://github.com/patricklmarie/GPX-Route-Planner Online demo: https://patricklmarie.github.io/GPX-Route-Planner/
Heinz Stucke has passed away.
He never stopped traveling the world since 1962.
So sad.
https://www.facebook.com/heinzstucke
https://www.facebook.com/heinzstucke
hello fellow cycling enthusiasts
here’s a travel journal of the cycling tour through the Rhône-Alpes Auvergne region by Claudio
zouli
it was the plan
http://cbandiera.free.fr/parcours/auvergne-Ralpes/
the trip was completed story being posted online soon 1100 km in 11 days beautiful and varied regions
claudio

the trip was completed story being posted online soon 1100 km in 11 days beautiful and varied regions
claudio

Hello,
We’d like to go on a 3- to 4-month bike trip starting in December, crossing from Assam (northeast India) to New Delhi via Nepal.
Are there routes with light traffic along the Brahmaputra and through Nepal?
We’re also looking for any info on accommodations, wild camping, local interactions, etc.
Thanks,
Michel
Hi there,
I’m planning to cycle from Morlaix to Brest (via Roscoff and the V45 coastal route). We’ll start riding on August 16th for 13 days (with stops for island visits, surfing, etc.). Is there a lot of traffic at this time of year? I’ve got two kids, 11 and 13, and we don’t like riding in the middle of cars (we’ve already done the Vélomaritime—Caen to Cherbourg—the Loire route from Orléans to Saumur, the Vélodyssée from Nantes to Royans, and the canals like the Nivernais and Bourgogne, where there were plenty of bike-only lanes, which isn’t the case on this route).
Thanks for your help if you’ve already done this route in late August! Virginie
I’m planning to cycle from Morlaix to Brest (via Roscoff and the V45 coastal route). We’ll start riding on August 16th for 13 days (with stops for island visits, surfing, etc.). Is there a lot of traffic at this time of year? I’ve got two kids, 11 and 13, and we don’t like riding in the middle of cars (we’ve already done the Vélomaritime—Caen to Cherbourg—the Loire route from Orléans to Saumur, the Vélodyssée from Nantes to Royans, and the canals like the Nivernais and Bourgogne, where there were plenty of bike-only lanes, which isn’t the case on this route).
Thanks for your help if you’ve already done this route in late August! Virginie
Hi there,
I’ve been road cycling for several years, and I’m about to switch to gravel in the next few days—I’m waiting for my bike, which should arrive this week.
I’m planning a bikepacking trip in a few weeks along the Véloroute V81, also known as the Vélosud, from Biarritz to Le Barcarès.
Has anyone here already done this route? Any info is welcome, whether it’s about the route itself, gear, or accommodation. I’ll prioritize staying with locals as much as possible. On that note, I just signed up for the brand-new site *Guidon et Couette* ((www.guidon-et-couette.fr)), which offers free accommodation between cyclists across the country, but there’s almost no one listed along my route!
Thanks in advance.
Laurent.
Hi there, I’m planning a cross-Canada bike trip, and I’ve got a question that might seem silly, but could someone tell me how to pack a bike (in a box, with a fragile sticker... I don’t know) for a flight? Thanks in advance!
Hi everyone,
This summer, we’re planning to cycle along the EV 19 that follows the Meuse River from Langres all the way to Rotterdam. My question is about getting back to Nantes. Do any of you know what the best return option might be? I’d love to hear about your experiences. I saw that FlixBus doesn’t take bikes. By train, I think it’s possible but would involve multiple local trains. We were also wondering if there’s a boat from Rotterdam to Saint-Nazaire that could take passengers with bikes.
Any tips or experiences you can share would be really helpful—thanks in advance! Have a great evening
This summer, we’re planning to cycle along the EV 19 that follows the Meuse River from Langres all the way to Rotterdam. My question is about getting back to Nantes. Do any of you know what the best return option might be? I’d love to hear about your experiences. I saw that FlixBus doesn’t take bikes. By train, I think it’s possible but would involve multiple local trains. We were also wondering if there’s a boat from Rotterdam to Saint-Nazaire that could take passengers with bikes.
Any tips or experiences you can share would be really helpful—thanks in advance! Have a great evening
I’ve gotten used to crossing Europe by bus to return by bike.
It was really convenient to take the bike without having to disassemble it.
But FlixBus no longer accepts bikes...
What alternatives do you know about?
Thanks.
Hi there,
I’m planning to ride the Dutch section of the EuroVelo 19, from Maastricht to Rotterdam.
Since it’s too complicated to bring my bike on the train, I’m looking to rent one locally.
I’d love any tips or bike rental shop recommendations—I’m struggling to find options even in Rotterdam.
The plan is to rent in Rotterdam, take the train to Maastricht with the bike, then cycle back to Rotterdam.
Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions!
Nath
Coming soon:
https://www.Biclou.com/parcours/durance/
Starting from Faverges: 900 km over 9 days

Here’s the detailed Durance route starting from Briançon

Here’s the detailed Durance route starting from Briançon

Hi there,
I’m planning to build a new touring bike. I want to prioritize lightness. That said, I’m tempted by a suspension fork that could offer some comfort on rougher roads. The recent appearance of gravel suspension forks on the market might meet my needs—at least on paper. I’m particularly considering the RockShox Rudy Ultimate XPLR fork. Unlike MTB forks, its travel is short: either 30 mm or 40 mm. It weighs 1400 g, which is 400/500 g more than a steel fork.
Any thoughts or real-world feedback on this?
I’m also wondering about the durability of magnesium (lower leg) for long-distance bike touring. And what’s the impact of skipping the manufacturer-recommended maintenance every 50 and 200 hours? That’s bound to happen on a long trip unless you carry extra gear. More generally, how reliable are these kinds of forks?
Thanks in advance
I’m planning to build a new touring bike. I want to prioritize lightness. That said, I’m tempted by a suspension fork that could offer some comfort on rougher roads. The recent appearance of gravel suspension forks on the market might meet my needs—at least on paper. I’m particularly considering the RockShox Rudy Ultimate XPLR fork. Unlike MTB forks, its travel is short: either 30 mm or 40 mm. It weighs 1400 g, which is 400/500 g more than a steel fork.
Any thoughts or real-world feedback on this?
I’m also wondering about the durability of magnesium (lower leg) for long-distance bike touring. And what’s the impact of skipping the manufacturer-recommended maintenance every 50 and 200 hours? That’s bound to happen on a long trip unless you carry extra gear. More generally, how reliable are these kinds of forks?
Thanks in advance
Hi there!
I’m making an exception and creating a separate post this time, since it’s all about France. In May, we spent a week in Provence, specifically in the Luberon, exploring the cycling routes *Autour du Luberon à Vélo*, the *Véloroute du Calavon* (part of EuroVelo 8), and the shorter *Les Ocres à Vélo* route. Together, they gave us an amazing journey through rolling hills, vineyards, lavender fields still green in spring, and some of the most stunning landscapes in southern France.

It was, of course, the perched villages that impressed us the most. We visited Gordes, Roussillon, Bonnieux, Lacoste, Lourmarin, Ménerbes, Oppède-le-Vieux, Cucuron, and Lauris. Many of them are among the most beautiful villages in Provence, and it’s hard not to agree with that reputation.




One interesting point is the route of EuroVelo 8 in this part of the region. The official path mainly follows the old railway line of the *Véloroute du Calavon*, which is very comfortable and safe. But in our opinion, cyclists traveling EuroVelo 8 around the Mediterranean would discover even more treasures if the route passed through villages like Bonnieux, Lacoste, or Oppède-le-Vieux.


We were also pleasantly surprised by how safe cycling felt. Most of the route takes small local roads, but traffic is light, drivers are respectful, and road design really takes cyclists into account. It’s one of those places where you can ride peacefully even without separated bike lanes.



Our full story:
Around Luberon by bicycle - the most beautiful villages of Provence
You can also find all our cycling travel stories on the forum:
Cycling Thread - Europe’s most beautiful bike routes
S.
I’m making an exception and creating a separate post this time, since it’s all about France. In May, we spent a week in Provence, specifically in the Luberon, exploring the cycling routes *Autour du Luberon à Vélo*, the *Véloroute du Calavon* (part of EuroVelo 8), and the shorter *Les Ocres à Vélo* route. Together, they gave us an amazing journey through rolling hills, vineyards, lavender fields still green in spring, and some of the most stunning landscapes in southern France.

It was, of course, the perched villages that impressed us the most. We visited Gordes, Roussillon, Bonnieux, Lacoste, Lourmarin, Ménerbes, Oppède-le-Vieux, Cucuron, and Lauris. Many of them are among the most beautiful villages in Provence, and it’s hard not to agree with that reputation.




One interesting point is the route of EuroVelo 8 in this part of the region. The official path mainly follows the old railway line of the *Véloroute du Calavon*, which is very comfortable and safe. But in our opinion, cyclists traveling EuroVelo 8 around the Mediterranean would discover even more treasures if the route passed through villages like Bonnieux, Lacoste, or Oppède-le-Vieux.


We were also pleasantly surprised by how safe cycling felt. Most of the route takes small local roads, but traffic is light, drivers are respectful, and road design really takes cyclists into account. It’s one of those places where you can ride peacefully even without separated bike lanes.



Our full story:
Around Luberon by bicycle - the most beautiful villages of Provence
You can also find all our cycling travel stories on the forum:
Cycling Thread - Europe’s most beautiful bike routes
S.
Hi there, we’re a group of 4 cyclists looking to get from Treviso in Italy to Munich with our 4 non-folding bikes. It seems complicated! Are there any solutions? Thanks so much.
Hi, I'm looking for a Pino tandem bike for sale in Quebec and I can't find any. Does anyone have any info, please? Thanks a bunch!